I, too, have noticed a marked increase in suspects requiring multiple projectile impacts to neutralize the threat. 40 and 357 Sig never had that problem. Retired Deputy 30 years service.
Same thing is happening where I'm from lots of police shootings where assailants are hit 5 or more times with 9mm Glock17s & they almost always survive the encounter.
Nine millimeter is the every person round. It's common it's reasonably effective enough with the right ammunition and relatively controllable for the average person. Maybe it's just me. But I feel that my 40 is actually less snappy and shoots flatter than a nine millimeter. Does it have a little more recoil? Yes, but it's a straight back recoil, not a muzzle flip recoil, if you know what I mean... I always get better groups with my forty.
@@Sandhill1988 If my theory is right, you get better groups with 40 cal than 9mm because regular factory 9mm ammo is lousy, on average. Try this. Get some ordinary 9mm and 40 cal ammo, two or three brands for each caliber. The ordinary, affordable stuff. It can be fmj or hp or flat nose, whatever. Shoot groups at 30 or 40 yards. Tell me what you get, if the 40 groups are better or worse than the 9mm, which has the most variance, etc. Good luck. I'm with you 50 is perfectly comfortable to shoot.
Well done video and a thorough explanation. Always learning new things here at UA-cam University... I am just an old Marine who twice went to war with a 1911A1 45 ACP, with 230 grain ball ammo. Now I conceal carry a Glock 30S 24/7/365 for self defense because 10+1 rounds of 45 ACP with the ability to use a G21 magazine with 13 rounds in a reload makes me happier than 15+1 9mm. - Never fired a 40 caliber but I hear it has a much snappier recoil than the sweet push from a 45 ACP and like I said, at 72 I am an "old Marine" now. Confidence in what you carry and the ability to deliver hot lead down range accurately when it counts is where it's at boys.
I agree with your premises that controllability is an issue. Having several 9mms, 2 .40's, and a brace of 1911s, I can say that the recoil and the caliber are not directly related. In particular, I have 2 Taurus G2cs - one in 9mm and one in .40. The .40 is softer-recoiling and more controllable than the 9mm version. I suspect it has to do with the relative strength of the recoil springs; if not, then the pressure rise curve. Several friends who have shot them side by side have commented exactly the same: the .40 is more controllable. I also have a S&W 4006 in .40. A much heavier gun, but it has far less controllability and much heavier recoil. I suspect the combination of slide weight and recoil spring rate conspire to slam the slide into the slide stop, making it snappier - more so than my 1911s, for example, and more like the G2c in 9mm. The physics of recoil is more complex than can be expressed by a simple measure like recoil energy and velocity; acceleration and deceleration, barrel axis height, slide mass, etc. all add up. I think the FBI and law enforcement might have moved away from the .40 not because of the round, but rather because of the gun in which it was chambered, and the controllability of the specific gun chosen. I will take my lightweight, soft-recoiling, concealable Taurus G2C in .40 over any of my 9mms for controllability and follow-up shot time. It may be small, but it's definitely the easiest to control and make multiple on-target hits with. YMMV - it could be just MY recoil spring; but it's definitely repeatable, and empirically confirmed across multiple other shooters who've tested it.
Thank you Sir for your Services. I truly appreciate it. I also apologize for the way my generation is handling things. Born 90'. We need your generation to do video diaries and a whole lot so we have references of what being American meant. We already need them tbh. Thank you for your sacrifices and courage to face the enemy in my honor. God bless you.
Thank you for your service. The 45 was really popular and the .40cal wasn't demanding introduced until 1990. Just curious how it would had done for I r the military. I know my buddy used a 40cal Ruger in desert storm the 91dc 40cal. I had one and regret getting rid of it
@@DeathDealer1825 Having learned to shoot with a 9mm and shot hogs with both the results are not similar. One you'll find the hog dead 50+ yards away, the other will have the hog spinning, and blind running into tree's like a pinball machine. That's simply what happens when you get over 500ft/lbs of energy. The trade off is it's harder to shoot as well and takes more experience and practice. I for example shot 9mm for about 5 years before moving to .40s&w and I wouldn't recommend anyone new to shooting buying a .40s&w especially if they aren't going to train regularly with it. The 9mm generally falls into the good enough category but when the target might be attacking me back which includes angry hogs I prefer something with enough energy to basically sucker punch them in the brain at the same time. It's literally the difference between lethal holes, and lethal holes with brain bleeding from the pressure spike inside their bodies. Anything over 500ft/lbs of energy has this effect be it .45acp +p, .40s&w, .357sig, and the infamous .357 magnum (when fired from a proper length barrel). Also with .40s&w some loads do not meet those energy levels I would say avoid them.
@Slim Jim 500 fpe is still 500 fpe no matter what diameter your projectile is. Factory ammo wise Buffalo bore 147g Hardcast flat points is right at 550 so 500 is spicy 9mm but not even the cap. If you really wana go for it I could load 600 fpe in 9mm with relative confidence in reliability. The reality is that 500 fpe is absolutely overkill for a person sized threat, 200 fpe will reliably poke holes in people.... now i would prefer to be the guy with the 500 fpe but ya humans make for terrible backstops in general. It's not that I can't understand using the bigger calibers for the increased power but at least in my experience most of the guys who insist on using .40 or .45 are carrying a load that is essentially the power of 9mm +P...... 450-550 fpe. Of course 750 fpe will put em down faster but in .40 you have grand total of like 4 factory loads that even break 700. If your bigger caliber isn't offering more power then as the orger dude said it's purely psychological and not even for the guy you're shooting it doesn't make him any more scared no it gives you fake confidence... Foot pounds ain't perfect for sure but it's the only quantifiable way we have to measure power. ~420-450 is where the majority of 9mm duty ammo is at because that's still overkill but still in the very controllable range, a lighter projectile will always have less recoil even with identical power and since expanding ammo has become standard having an increased diameter simply isn't worth it.
First homicide I ever worked as a rookie almost two decades ago was a gang banger shot with a .380 in the chest. DRT before he hit the ground. There is no "magic bullet" or caliber when it comes to handguns. It is all about putting that shot right into the boiler room. But I tthink we all know that, or SHOULD at least. I've also been right there on a call watching a suspect survive three shots to the upper torso with .223 Hornady TAP from another officer's rifle at pretty much point blank range. Messy but no vitals struck. So it's all about shot placement regardless if it's a 9mm, .357, .40, .45, 10mm, etc etc. Just throwing that out there.
I've seen a guy get shot in the head with a 9mm and it went in deep. He was conscious and talking, he lived. Responded to a guy who got shot in the chest with a Raven .25. It clipped the bottom of his heart and he bled out in about 4 minutes, he died. Depends on a lot of factors, including blind luck.
free field training I may have worded it poorly. What I was trying to imply is yes any round can be lethal. But in my opinion a large round with good controlled expansion will create a larger wound channel giving you a larger chance of dropping your target if you did not hit a vital organ such as the heart.
The best ammo I've shot and never disappointed with was the 10mm. BUT, when it comes to dependability, expectations, and performance, I'll always stick to my .40 for duty and concealed carry. Like someone said below, it just feels right to me and does exactly what I need it to do. Thanks for the video. I like the ones that are unbiased and give me something to think about.
40sw is a beast of a round that has a lot of untapped potential and a lot of mislead hate 40 is awesome whether you like it or not Do your own tests and don't listen to people on the internet that are mislead as well 40 is awesome
This is true you have a lot of paid guys preaching .9mm is the best and the new advanced ammo ( which no one else has 😂) makes the . 9mm the best, what a bunch of crap .!
That's right , I carry a 40 for the reason it will stop the bad guy without having to use all of 16+1 rounds of a 9mm because my ammo is going straight through the bad guy and not stopping he or she. I know for a fact from videos of test and my own test on different objects with FMJ's and JHP'S that hitting a human target center Mass with a 180 grain JHP'S will rip through some guts , vital organs, break some ribs and spine to stop any bad guys in Thier tracks. These guys on here that believe in Thier fantasy world that they will get a head shot in the time of panic and chaos you aim for center Mass ( the biggest target ) because even a miss of target 3-4 inches you will still hit vital organs and shut the bad guy down. I know I just pissed the 9mm guys off by saying I rely on 40 for protection but why would I choose a lesser firearm over the more powerful in every comparison possible so that's why I trust 40 because I've seen what it can do .....
camping man, I see your point, and would agree that the 9 may not be as good as the 40 n some situations, but I have seen what a 9 and 45 will do as well. they do the job just fine I might add. I have a 9 , 45 ,38, I see no need for the 40.what so ever. if I were to go to another caliber, it would be the 10mm, the actual papa of the 40. the 45acp in 185 will do the same as the 40 if not more. see no need for the 40 when I already had the battle proven 45 and 9....even the 38 is proven.. just saying. to each his own
I agree I’ve been using liberty civil defense ammo and it’s very manageable recoil. Though I do agree that technology has caught up with ammo to make 9mm more then efficient it’s just why take a chance that it might not penetrate a leather jacket. I live in Michigan and it’s cold here more then it’s warm so a round that will make it through winter clothing is more important then having lighter recoil. Well that’s my two cents at least.
I was in an officer involved shooting over ten years ago, i was carrying the glock 22 with 180 grain hydroshock ammo. All it took was 1 shot center mass to stop and completely incapacitate the subject (drt). I still carry that same glock 22 today and wouldn’t risk carrying anything else!
I've alway's thought that the Glock 22 is the perfect duty gun. Pretty hard to beat 15 rounds of .40 s&w! Glock 23 for civilian carry or 26 for deep concealment (with a backup hi cap magazine for just in case)
Fern, 1 shot CoM stoppage? You didn't shoot the threat in the CoM. You shot him through the spinal canal from the front, while aiming CoM. I'm sorry you had to experience the act of ending a life but I'm damn glad you had the mind and skill set nessecary to do what you were required to do. (8 combat deployments with 2nd Bn 75th RR I understand)
All three of my shootings happened during the revolver era and the issued .38 served me well. The first time was with the old lead round nose bullet and a single round dropped the suspect before he could get off a shot. My second shooting we were using the same round in a gunfight w/armed robbery suspects and it only slowed the bad guys down a bit. My last shooting we had the FBI 158 grain hollow points and that suspect was dropped w/three rounds from my issued revolver.
Hey thanks for the video. I have to be honest. I've carried a .40 cal Sig Sauer for almost 11 years now. I'm not an officer, however for several years I did cary for my job. I was a contractor for various govt agencies, including police departments, installing security equipment in high crime and high risk areas. Why have I always carried a 40? Simple, it's what I am most comfortable with. I learned to shoot a handgun on a 40 cal, and I trust it. I think sometimes people overlook that. I own 45s, 357 Sig, and other calibers....but when it counts I want to know I have the gun and caliber I know best.
A lot of people will read what you wrote and much of them won't see what you wrote, that the most important thing is to know your firearm that you will use as a go to in a self defense protection situation. I don't care what you own just know your firearm. 👍
With my department in Texas we use the 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot 180gr. This stuff works! It's like blowing out a birthday candle! I personally have had to use 9mm in early 2003 in a deadly force encounter using federal hydro shock 124gr +P+. I had to use like 6 rounds to stop the guy because of no expansion. I wouldn't trade my current carry ammo for anything.
+Arthur Smith Sometimes I think the hyper shock gets it's good reputation entirely from people who have never used them for their intended purpose. Everyone I know who has switched to a larger round or changed ammo shortly after.
@The Shootist @Arthur Smith: The Federal Hydra-Shok is old, unreliable hollowpoint technology KNOWN to have unreliable expansion results. Some depts. have been too slow to change because it requires time and effort to justify changes. A poor reason.
The Shootist in all the gel tests I've seen, Speer gold dot has been the best prefomer in wound channel. No matter who uses their bullet (i.e Underwood). Massive tissue damage.
It's so interesting to see an actual police officer so friendly and comfortable in character, like they are actually human beings, you know, genuinely nice people.
Good points, I like .40 myself and I've had them all. I tend to prefer Glocks because I suppose that's what I'm most accustomed to, but the .40 offers almost 9mm capacity, same platform size, it hits harder and pokes bigger holes. I agree shot placement is number one, but a larger expanding bullet increases the chances of a critical hit. I like the .45 as well but again as a Glock guy, I just like the 9mm/.40 size better, the .45's and 10mm's feel like bricks.
I did shoot a deer once with the 45-70 round, the exit wound was big enough for me to comfortably fit my entire hand into. I wonder how that round would penetrate a level 2a flak jacket?
There’s a musician trick (for singers anyway) where you can breath through your nose with your mouth open and can keep taking like that(think that’s how it goes?!?) probably what he’s doing
I carried a 45 for years when switched to a different agency I started using the 40. I just believe any of the 9 40 or 45 cal. Would be fine as long as you have a good weapon and train with it and the gear you carry holster ect
I'm by no means in law enforcement, but my choice in a cartridge would be tied to my desire to transfer 100% of the energy in my projectile, into my opposition. Also balancing how much recoil would affect follow up shots. And I guess capacity would have to be factored in as well, so that would bring me all the way back to good old .40.
Was at the carwash washing my truck when approached by a couple of men, one with a gun and one with a knife, threw my keys and wallet sorta towards the feet of guy with the gun, when he bent over to pick them up I drew my cm40 took out the gunman first then the one with the knife (dumbass didn't run,I was actually hoping/giving him a chance to but he acted as if he was gonna stab me, SmH): anyways one shot each to mid-lower chest/upper stomach area is all it took! At first I used I think it was a little heavy but after I seen the one shot stopping power I don't mind
Agreed, this is fucking nonsense. Getting shot is fucking getting shot. Whats this guy worried about anyway? Police shootings usually end with a dozen bullets in the person they shoot.
@Moe Green The day I got my first IWB holster I had a friend time my draw with my full size S&W from a "hands up" position. I am not the biggest ditz in the world and am in shape but I am autistic and not as coordinated as other guys at tasks without practice. I could consistently draw in less than .33 seconds without any practice gripping my pistol through my shirt, i.e. average human max reaction time. The majority of police officers are shot at close range by people acting cool then rapidly drawing. No good way to do the job, first world people just can't really accept the only real way law enforcement can deal with the crime of a 3rd world hell hole, USA between Armenia and Uganda in violence.
You explained that well. I’m really tired of the new 9mm fad. Most agencies up here in Canada that have switched back to 9mm are using the same 20 year old Winchester SXT 147gr bullet that they used when they figured out 9mm wasn’t stopping people. I’ve seen 9mm get stuck in cardboard sun visors after going through the windshields. The 9mm fad is based on new bullet technologies that police departments don’t use.
The new 9mm fad is to cover up the true fact that the FBI went back to .9mm because of all the small female and soft hand girly men that are in the agency now .
True. Not to mention that the whole “modern 9mm technology is so much better...” argument is null because that same technology applies to all calibers. Modern 9mm is better than old 9mm, but modern .40 is better than old .40. This theory that people talk would only be true when comparing old .40 to modern 9mm.
@@fearnonebutone4977 you nipped it in the butt. 9mm has high end bullets. But same high end bullet for 9mm are available by same manufacturer for the .40 that will out perform it in the 9mm. Not to mention a basic 180gr fmj is a amazing basic bullet. Ive put it to the test with trapped feral hogs. 1 chest shot on 250-350lb hogs to the cross in there chest. Puts them down quick. Not same story with 9mm.
I totally agree with your assessment. My colleagues keep saying the 40 is dead, and new bullet advancements make it obsolete but the same advancements pertain to all calibers. And when a bullet fails, larger caliber always wins. Another issue is the short and weak moniker makes people think the caliber is weak when in actuality is one of the most powerful calibers available in carry-able auto handguns on par with 357 sig and 45 acp. Ive seen LE Ranger and others be over 500 ft lbs in 40. Capacity aside, I don’t think any gun knowledgeable person would choose a 9mm over over 40 S&W if confronted by a bear for instance. It is the best compromise for me on stopping power and capacity. I use Gold Dots, Win Rangers, Golden Saber etc
I want full loaded 10mm Auto against a bear. I honestly don't understand why Alaska State Troopers don't issue Glock 20's as standard issue over the Glock 22's. On the Nat Geo show that follows them there were a few episodes where they couldn't get their long gun and had to use their Glock. I would want to carry a G20 with 2-3 mags of good bonded ammo and then a mag or so of hardcore hardcast +P+ "not for the weak of heart" 10mm 200grainers!
Justin Moore : Your comment is off base because first one use a caliber that first has the reputation of being a stopper and not all ammo functions the same in the lengths of barrels . This is why citizens need to practice much more often plus sign up for advance firearm classes 🔫 You could line up 10 gun owners at your local WAL-MART and only three out of that 10 practice and maybe one of the remaining three is really a worth while shooter 🔫 People just don't practice but they cn talk my ear off about what's new in the gun world 😃
MyHotdogWeiner : Hopefully you can justified the use of this ammo from a shotgun in court . Play with this in the woods but use 00 buck if you are going to actually shoot the bad guy . Please join the organization that can save you jail time & money if you might need legal help ! After you might join you will quickly understand my pass sentence .
One thing I do know, a well placed round is better than a flesh wound, especially when it counts. With any Caliber. My philosophy is worry less about the cartridge and more about shot placement.
Shot placement is the advice people that have never been in an altercation give. They are just regurgitating the garbage they heard others say. You clearly haven't tried to hit a moving target that is behind cover while you are moving your ass as quick and efficiently as possible because you have no cover due to walking up on a vehicle stop, in a parking lot, porch, or yard. I have in all of those cases and at that point your weapon is more of a deterrent while you're hoping you can shots on target.
@@davegoodwin1848 so with that being said, you're not saying that shot placement doesn't matter, but that it's difficult to place a good shot in that instance. But you still agree that shot placement is important right? So with your experience, do you think it doesn't matter what the caliber is, and that any will work?
@@christopherwalker6056 very good points! IF you can get a good bead on the target and you hit a vital...heck, even a major area then shot placement does matter but it's a combination of training and luck at times. As for caliber I've been present for final examinations (autopsies) where death was caused by .22, .380, and up. Caliber along with ammo used is situationally important. FMJ's and extreme penetrator will be (more) effective through barriers. No expansion as with hollow points but there is possible fragmentation. A 40, 45, 10, and often 9mm will be deadly through specific barriers but if you're trying to shoot say through a vehicle panel with a .22, .25, .380 then good luck. In all, caliber in conjunction with correct ammo for the specific situation matters. But who carries that many different guns and FMJ plus hollow points? I own many guns but for service I use a 9mm with gold dot although I much prefer HST which I use for personal edc. For training I use Fiocchi 124 grain hollow points as they are really close to HST.
@@christopherwalker6056 knock down power? Not really a believer in that since in practice rather than theory there are many factors. Yes, energy in foot pounds matter but it's the size of the wound channel and bullet trajectory (tumbling) that gives hollow points the edge instead of a smaller all the way through wound...which still sucks and is deadly. A lot of ppl think it looks like a movie or tv show when someone is struck yet it couldn't be further from the truth. The "power" doesn't knock someone 5 feet backwards off their feet. The majority are still aware and functional after being wounded. Best to put several shots on them.
Interesting. A DEA guy told me once, years ago, that they carried .40's because they were better than .45's at penetrating a windshield. He said the .45 round tended to bounce up and off the windshield if facing the car because of the bulk of the round.
That makes a lot of sense thanks for the video. I noticed if you go to the Lucky Gunner ammo test results. And you compare 9, 40 and 45. All Fired out of a 3.5" barrel. 40 s&w has the least amount of projectiles that did not expand properly.
Great video. I personally use .40 caliber. This is because when I finally turned 21 to buy a gun and drink 🎉, the first pistol I wanted and bought was the 1st Gen XDM 4.5" .40 Caliber. At that time, 2008, the model was new and Springfield only made it in that barrel length and caliber. This was because at that time .40 caliber was popular with Lawn Enforcement, thanks to the FBI testing considering .40 caliber as "the ideal cartridge for self defense and lawn enforcement." Some XDM owners might not know this but It wasn't until six months later after the model's first release that they made it in 9mm. And then the next gen came out in different barrel lengths and calibers. Even though today in mordern times and with ammunition technology making other calibers perform as well as .40, including smaller calibers. I'm still glad I bought my .40 caliber, especially the XDM. Beautiful pistol, great aesthetics influenced by purpose and function, high capacity, match grade barrel making it very accurate, competition trigger, and it comes like this out of the box. No other caliber will give me the capacity, muzzle energy, penetration, damage, and ballistics that .40 caliber will. Especially, since I use Hornady, one of the best. And with my AR-15 in .300 blackout, also using Hornady, it's just like my .40 caliber. I get high capacity, the same as 5.56, the muzzle energy, penetration, damage, and ballistics of a .30 caliber bullet similar to 7.62x39, with the accuracy and linear recoil of an AR-15, and not a jumpy AK. With my XDM in .40 caliber, and my AR-15 in .300 blackout, It's the best of both worlds. So if you had a choice and no policy restrictions. What sidearm and duty rifle, in what calibers, would you use and carry on duty?
I had s choice when I went into LE and had to buy my own weapons. I carried a Sig Model 220 45 acp, a S&W airweight 38 spl BUG, a NAA 22 mag mini- revolver as a get off of me bug, a Remington 870 12 gage and a Ruger mini-14 in my patrol car. I like 40 cal just fine, but never carried one on duty. I did carry a 357 mag revolver on duty at a different department for a while and totally trust both the 357 caliber and trust a revolver. 9mm is not my favorite caliber, but I believe it has it’s place and for me personally that place is in a small pocket pistol, something like the Sig P365.
any caliber is better than no caliber, I have carried everything from a 22lr to a 10mm. 99% of the time either will do the job. shot placement is more important than bullet caliber. good video
+everett higginbotham I think there is a point of diminishing returns to the "shot placement is king" argument. If the round dosen't have the punch to drive a straight line through an aggressor then where you put the bullet is of little consequence.
Right, along the line of recoil management I can put 10 22lr in a 3 inch circle in under 3 seconds. Whatever the outcome 10 in a proper area for that round, the bad guy isn't walking away. I'm actually actively trying to get the 22 TCM for carry. The ballistics are looking really interesting.
+everett higginbotham The question becomes if they will hit anything inside the target consistently. I've seen far to many people have .32,.25, and .22 rounds go all over the place and STOP upon hitting anything hard (like bone or a cell phone) to subscribe to that philosophy. At the end of the day, if you are confident in it than there is nothing I am going to do to convince you, but I wouldn't suggest a handgun round below .380 for self defense. And in .380 I really prefer FMJ just to make sure it will make it in.
This sounds backwards and crazy, but when I go shooting I start with full power 44 mag. After 50 rounds of that it's real easy to shoot .40 all day. It's not snappy at all, almost a pleasure to shoot. I shoot the 44 double action and it great training for trigger control.
@@Astro_touches_children Dont think I would be comfortable shooting at a charging bear with a 25 acp aiming for its eye socket or using a 5 shot 38 snub going against 2 mass shooter armed with M16s. If you are good enough to hit a moving target the size of an apple under extreme duress at random ranges ranges you got my respect. I will just aim center mass and hope that a more powerful round will cause more damage and with any luck, hit a vital.
@@FoulPet the smallest I have is 9mm. Your points are all valid, I thought it was assumed in this conversation that mouse calibers were not recommended. That being said,if I were attacked while holding a.22, I would return fire. Going back to my comment,if you miss,it doesn't matter how many times you miss. If I were in grizzly country I would arm myself accordingly. And hope to hit, under duress with adrenaline over load full on. I will not be a keyboard raider and say I never miss. I will say I have never been chased by a bear and you're right again, no one knows how they will aquit themselves in an unknown situation.
Back in the 1980’s my agency authorized certain semi-automatic handguns to be carried in lieu of their issue .357 revolvers. (We also allowed them to qualify with both if they wished.) Initially we authorized .45 ACP and .38 Super with the proviso that if the 9mm was brought up to the 110 grain .357 magnum velocity, it too would be authorized. A 9mm 115+P+ cartridge was being carried by the ISP and we ordered some and tested this load. It averaged ~1,300 fps+P+ 9mm JHP loads. It was immediately adopted by my agency.The chamber pressure back then for the +P+ 9mm was ~42,500 PSI while the standard 9mm was ~33,500 PSI. Two notes: 1} We issued standard velocity 115 grain 9mm for practice (150 rounds per quarter) and 100 rounds of fresh duty +P+ 9mm on qualification day. The Agents were to fire the 72 round qualification course with their previous quarter’s +P+ issue ammunition.The recoil characteristics of the +P+ 115 grain and the standard velocity 115 grain 9mm were quite similiar. The +P+ 115 grain JHP @~1,300 fps worked well in the field in dfensive shootings. The agancy switched to the .40S&W in early 1996. The .40 S&W 155 grain JHP service issue load had significantly more recoil. For example, the US Border Parol classes usually had a few Agents or no Agents needing remedial training needed after qualification with their .40’s while the immigration classes had a ~50% failures rate even after remedial training. After DHS was formed this trend continued. Since then, the other devisions of DHS have requested a switch to the 9mm and that, as I understand, is taking place as I write this. Knowing that the +P+ 115 grain 9mm had worked well in the past I am satisfied that it will, once again serve well in defensive shootings.That is IF the 115 grain JHP +P+ is once again adopted as an agency issue round. A +P+ 9mm 115 grain JHP @~ 1,300 fps worked fine. I am not at all sure that the 147 grain 9MM will save the lives of the folks in DHS, regardless of it’s chamber pressure. That is, unless some the 147 grain 9mm cartridge can somehow achieve a muzzle velocity of at least 1,200 fps., preferably 1300 fps. - kw
The field tests I've seen with .40 vs .45 ACP, plus the options in weight and velocity, made the .40 S&W make sense for me. It's a great intermediate round that gives you higher capacity than a .45 in a smaller package. I'm not in an OC state, and I am not going to conceal a 1911, Glock 21, or Springfield XD. A .45 is an excellent caliber, and for some it could make sense for EDC, but for myself it is a bedside table solution. I carry a Walther P99 IWB, and sometimes the SIG P938 on my ankle or in my car as a backup.
when "trendy gun guys" (LOL!) as stated by someone earlier gripe about felt recoil in the .40, yap endlessly about "shot placement", etc., and then state that they carry 9mm +P+ (+P+P) to make up the difference because "the ammo is better now...yeah, no. What theyve basically done is take a smooth shooting 9, and turned it right back into the 40 they love to hate. 40 s&w is a superior round for getting the job done, and I stillove my 9mm handguns even though I say this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it imo.
+Robert Alford that's why I love my hi-power with standard pressure 9mm. Slick, soft shooting, easy to hit with. Why screw with that to make it something it was never meant to be?
Good way to put it. Also, some semi-autos get worn out quickly shooting a steady diet of 9mm +P+. When 9mm +P doesn't get the job done, go to a larger caliber.
Thank you for this excellent and interesting explanation of reasons for using 40 cal in a duty gun. I understand that the 40 has been one of the most successful options. The video is a little old now of course, but I'll comment anyway. We know that over the last 100 years calibers have included 38, 357, 9mm, 10mm, 40. Now 9mm is coming back in a lot of departments. Perhaps, departments can't settle properly on any one handgun because there are really two distinctly different things that a service firearm has to do. I understand that it has to be quick and jam-free at close quarters, but it also has to be powerful and accurate when there's a shootout. The conventional semi-autos we see are a very poor compromise IMO, and it is commendable that LEOs cope as well as they do with them. All too often, the much needed long gun is still in the back of the patrol car. I'm suggesting that the solution is two very different weapons, to carry at all times: One which is nearer to being a rifle and another for quick draw and which doesn't jam when you fire it with an imperfect grip, say while grappling. Exactly what those configurations are is a decision for people who are more informed than me. I hope that my observation doesn't offend anybody and that departments do finally settle on something which better helps LEOs to get the job done and stay as safe as possible.
Awww man, you didn't even mention Kinetic Energy! ;) Great job covering the points. My research confirms what you contend. So long as you're using a) modern bonded-core hollow points, b) with a combined weight & muzzle velocity to generate 400+ ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, and c) you train with that ammunition, 9mm/.40/.357Sig/.45 are all superior, real-world proven, threat-stoppers.
I bought my first firearm recently, an Astra A-100 in 40S&W. Think Sig P229, but all steel, and a bit simpler in design mechanically. I chose it because I wanted something sub-$500, carries more than 10 rounds (A-100 in 40S&W carries 13+1), has excellent ergonomics, field tested reliability/durability, easy to clean, and preferably DA/SA. I really wanted to get a 45ACP, but sadly the only ones to meet most of my requirements were way out of my budget (like the FN FNX-45 Tactical, or even a basic M1911). I looked at a civilian-improved version of a Makarov, but I was a bit skeptical about .380 Auto. I even mulled over getting a Hi Point in 45ACP, but I wanted my first pistol to be something nicer and actually stand a chance at concealment. There were some Glocks in my budget, but their grips are possibly the worst grips I've ever held; even my Super Soaker from my childhood has a more comfortable grip than those pieces of garbage. So sadly, Glock was not an option as those grips feel like someone is digging their knuckle into my palm. The grip I loved best was the Walther CCP M2, but it only carries about 8 rounds of single stacked 9mm, and that was a huge drawback (if Walther ever makes a CCP M3, and is double stacked with at least 12 rounds, I'm sold). Ultimately, I really like 40S&W because it's like a happy hybrid between 9mm and 45ACP in stopping power, capacity, and weight (weight is important, too). The main reason I wanted more than 10 rounds in a mag is because I conceal carry, and I want to only carry 1 additional mag. Even if I got a 45ACP, anything remotely concealable would have about a 7 round mag. So would I rather have 14+1 total available rounds of 45ACP on my hip, or 26+1 total available rounds of 40S&W? Seemed like the Astra A-100 was my best option, and for $271 after tax, I can say I made a dang good choice. It's a hoot to shoot, too! I never saw any 10mm in my budget, either. 10mm would be really nice to have. Maybe some day I'll get a 10mm. Oh, and my carry ammo is Hornady 175 grain Critical Duty Flexlock JHP in 40S&W. Having 27 of those buggers on my hip with 13+1 of them in the pistol ready to go and another 13 in the second mag is quite reassuring. :) I conceal carry using a 5.11 Tactical fanny pack, worn on my hip. The A-100 juuuuust barely fits in it, with room for an additional mag. I could squeeze in 2 more mags, but that'd just be way too dang heavy for EDC, as the A-100 EMPTY weighs 34oz. It's a boat anchor compared to the Sig P229, but about way cheaper, and a lot more durable due to being all steel construction.
When I was working patrol, I had as much confidence in the .40 S&W as any pistol I ever carried. My testing indicated that the .40 and the .357 SIG are both superior to the 9mm for police patrol work. I've carried both on patrol, and would do so again. In the departments where it has been my choice of what ammo the department used, I've always specified Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot. My main reason for this is that Federal/Speer offer a practice round that is exactly matched to the duty round. So, I've always insisted that we use either the HST/American Eagle or the Gold Dot/Lawman combination. The HST expands a bit more, and the Gold Dot penetrates a bit more when compared to each other, but the difference is not large. In practice, I'll use either. As a plain clothes investigator at the end of my career, I was allowed to carry what I wanted and I wasn't doing traffic stops. I was also getting old, so I carried a Glock 19 loaded with HST 124 grain +P rounds, or the Gold Dot 124 grain +P. For practice and qualification I used 124 grain 9mm NATO ball, specifically because it had the same recoil as these +P rounds and was a lot snappier and more realistic than cheap 115 grain loads. Free Field Training is 100% right that if you are a cop, you want your training and duty ammo to feel the same when you fire them. The 9mm has been vastly improved over the last 15 years, while firearms training budgets and time allocations have been cut. The move to the 9mm makes some sense under those conditions, and a well designed premium 9mm cartridge is not a bad round. But for patrol officers who can shoot and are willing to practice, the .40 is still a litte better in my opinion.
And its so versatile. There are very light high velocity loads with 125 and 135gr up to slow and heavy with 200gr. But at the moment all new guns are in 9mm only. There are just Glock, S&W, HK and Beretta with production guns in 40S&W.
@@Gieszkanne dead round meaning there is no new firearms being designed in 40. Of course you will always be able to buy the rounds. But go ask beretta what the big new .40 gun is. Hint non it’s dead.
40 is a great round. Here is where I think the problem came in. When the 40 first came around, and a lot of firearm manufacturers rushed to profits and just drilled bigger holes in 9mm frame pistols. The frames could not take the beating of the high pressure round and hence the 40 "snap" and broken firing pins and springs. My hk vp40 is extremely pleasant to shoot. It is a heavier, beefier gun than the vp 9mm. If you change out to an after market 40 barrel in a Glock 20, you will know the difference!
I am a 40 guy i always think is a personal preference and what you feel and your hands and it will do the job better. Yes i know 9 is easy to find but 40 to me has more power. It is just my personal opinion.
That could be used as an argument against .40 S&W since 9mm ammo is usually cheaper and is more readily available. The biggest rule of gun fights is to have a gun on yourself, so people shouldn't take caliber debates too seriously and just carry whatever they can afford, shoot accurately, and conceal. Used police trade-in .40 Glocks can be a great value since most firearm enthusiasts don't want them.
You are absolutely correct and unfortunately, this is how the spray and pray mentality of the weaker 9mm took over in law enforcement! Now we know where America's testosterone went.
I have a gen4 Glock 22 police trade in from Atlanta Georgia. My brother is small town police officer and was just recently up graded to the gen4 Glock 22 from a gen2 Glock 17. We both carry bonded core defense rounds. Both of us have all our magazines extended +2(52 rounds total on our person). We practice with Winchester White Box 180gr. I believe wholeheartedly we couldn't do any better for the amount of money it costs yearly.
I'd say my fave nowadays is 357 Sig, 125 grain Speer gold dots, or Underwood ammo at 1475., with my Glock 23 I stay away from 180 grain, 165 grain shines at 1150 fps up to 1200 in Fed HST, (saw a vid) with my 9mm s I use Speer gold dots 124 grain +P, the same ammo NYPD swears by, but I also use 135 grain +P by hornady, I really like Fed HST & the gold Dots best..😊
@@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii8818 Atatiana Jefferson didnt care what caliber she was murdered with when fort worth PD shot her through her own window while checking to see if she was ok. She was until the local police gang showed up.
Another good video. At my agency we can carry any pistol we want as long as it's a Sig 226 9mm. They do issue us 124g +P Gold Dots and we train with the 124g Speer lawman so they should shoot about the same.
+Chris Jones That is an awesome overall combo! Your agency must really have it together. I'd rather buy my own pistol, but if I had to pick an issue gun/ammo combo that would be far from the bottom of my list.
We could do worse but I'm not that impressed with the 226. People usually don't believe me but they just aren't very reliable. We've had quite a few light strike problems. I'd carry my G17 in a heartbeat if given the choice.
It only 2 or 3 years old. I haven't had a problem with mine but I've seen it happen several times. One of them was our Sig trained armorer's pistol. Another happened after the officer fell and it landed in some mud. They test fired it and it only got the first round off. It had to be completely broken down and cleaned to get it working. They originally thought it was due to us having the DAK trigger so they replaced them all with the double/single and we've had issues with those too.
The department I work for uses Glock 22’s. I like the .40 S&W round. Our department uses Federal HST rounds. Personally, when off duty, I use Hornady Critical Duty rounds and carry a 9mm.
Nice video, I'm an old car guy, and in my hot rodding days they always say there is no replacement for displacement, and as far as I'm concerned it still holds true today, even in ammunition.
I just tested Hornady XTP bullets using gallon water jugs. The first shot with 180 grain .40 S&W went through 5 jugs before exiting out the side. The second shot shed the jacket into the second jug and the lead core was in the 4th jug. The 124 grain 9 mm was in the 3rd jug with a perfect petal formation. Guns were a Glock 23 and Springfield XD9 subcompact.
I was an MP for years and only shot 124 gr FMJ and was relatively impressed with its power. However the first time I got to shoot 40 S&W and see a the difference in power I was hooked. I have shot everything from 9mm to 5.7x28 and I continue to go back to 40 because I can shoot better with it. For me that is what is most important can you shoot it well and get reliable hits on target?
I EDC a G35 it gives me 16rds of .40 caliber in the same size package as a 8-9rd 1911 in a lighter gun. The Federal Tactical Bonded 165gr gives me out of the G35 five inch barrel 1,180fps which is 10mm performance in a lighter recoiling gun. The 165gr mimics 10mm and a 180gr is just as good as, 45acp out of a five inch barrel. The .40 has an energy advantage of both 9mm/45acp its case is even thicker. .40 does better against barriers such as bone. It will break it or go straight through. So, why no love for the .40? I feel it needs its own platform and it should be a full size gun. Theron D. Patron
Theron Patron I am also a proponent of 40 s&w, but the only 10mm that you can ever compare it to is a terribly watered down round. Which makes sense, as that is exactly what it is... Just a short case 10mm.
I'd say in 2019, the most common LE duty rounds are Hornady Critical Duty, Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, Ranger T-T series. I use Critical Duty or HST 😉. For training I prefer the Inceptor RNP non lead loads or the Federal Syntech rounds. I also say the 124gr +P 9mm works best. The US Army went to a 147gr JHP for the new M17 SIG pistol. In .45acp guns, I like 230gr +P in HST or Ranger T.
Just remember, with the advanced bullets for 9mm, that also applies to .40 s&w! Which still..puts .40 ahead of 9mm. Put it like this, if a 9mm with today's ammo is just as good as a .40, then a .40 with today's ammo is just as good as 10mm(which as I said still leaves 9mm in the dust). I think the whole thing is just pointless. A bigger, more powerful round is a bigger more powerful round, regardless of how advanced the ammo is. A better way to word it is, today's 9mm is as good as .40 s&w was 20 years ago. LOL. When you bring in advanced ammo to .40 there's nothing in 9mm that can compare. Not even +p+ 9mm will compare to today's .40 and .45.
losi8ightyew underwoods speer gold dots 115 grain in 9mm is above most .40s&w defensive ammo if not all. 1400fps with an output of 500ftlbs. All in a little glock 19! Lol. That's just one round. My main edc is the 23 though.
Truth Sharp 9mm can't compare to 40s&w, not even +p or +p+, but since you mentioned Underwood here are some 40's. 135 grain 675 ft-lbs at 1500 ft-sec, or 155 grain 582 ft-lbs at 1300 ft-sec, here is a link so you can compare your self ( ballistics101.com ). 9mm is a good round, and it's easy to handle, plus it's cheap. But it's maxed at 500 ft-lbs. If you could only have one round 9 mm or 40 s&w which would you pick, shot placement is true for all rounds. Google handgun one shot stop statistics ( An Alternative look at Handgun Stopping Power - One shot stops ) or google one shot stop
40 Venom I don't dislike the .40 caliber at all. Like I said. I carry one everyday. It's Just I could switch it up some days with my glock 19 and not compromise stopping power from my glock 23(.40). At the same time gaining capacity. I like just about all calibers so shot placement has to be key! Lol
.40 is on par with 10mm? Lmao, pass me what you're drinking, chief. I need some of it. You're basically saying that a Suburban is deadlier than a Tahoe. .40 is not ahead of 9mm, nor is .45 ahead of .40. Stop worrying about caliber debates and just carry a fucking pistol. No one cares which you prefer.
.45acp Black talon was my favorite for years. Never was a 9mm fan. 40 always seemed to be a tweener. After they quit making Black Talons I used .45acp 230 grain bonded hollow points. We always used less expensive stuff on the range due to volume, but qualified with what we carried.
Great strides in ammunition performance and especially good news for the 9mm. Also good news for other calibers as same technology is applied. So, 9mm is now good enough and .40 and .45 are even better.
That’s exactly right, everyone says “thanks to new tech the 9mm is just as good as .40”. Well sure maybe, but not when you apply that same tech to the other rounds
@@mattsepanski9975 new tech 9mm may be just as good as .40 but new tech .40 is better than new tech 9mm. FBI had to justify 9mm as new recruits could not handle .40, so FBI says pathologists could not tell what size round made a wound. Duh! Can hunters look at dead deer's wound and say what caliber did the deed? Of course not but hunters know that bigger holes are more effective than smaller holes when same technology is involved. 9mm fits the narrative.
Well in agreement with you. I’m not an officer but my range partner is an ex Atlanta officer and he was on duty when they shifted from 9 to the 10 to 40 and then back again to the 9 plus P. He now shoots a G 19 and his reason is availability or soon to be lack of in shorty 40. I have yet to see this lack of or dry spell of the 40. In my opinion the 40 is here to stay. I learned on the 40 it was my first Glock the 23 and it’s understandably my favorite round. Not only because I have learned to deal with the recoil ( not really diff. Than anything else) and when I went out and bought a Glock 19. I found myself missing a lot. My buddy has his own private outdoor range. ( lucky bastard ) and when we went out to do some shooting I was undershooting my 2 inches at 25 yards. I had a lot of issues trying to get used to it but recoil was very similar so I feel that the change was a waste. I reload a lot al,most all of our range ammo is my making and I tried a lot of different bullet weights. I found that shooting 135 grainers felt very similar to shooting a 9. I liked it but after a while I pinned for that kick because I shot so much 180 that it just didn’t feel the same. So long and short is that I feel that after enough practice you can learn to tame the 40 and in my opinion has the best of a lot of the best world argue,ent. I’m sure most of us will not be in a life or death gunfight but why not at least be prepared. Thanks for your video. It was educational.
They do it to save on budget while leaving the officers the choice. This often basically means the officer buys their own training and duty ammo, plus their own duty pistol or uses whatever the department issues.
Let's look at some history for once, back in 1911 the War Department was thinking of changing the handgun used by the Army and Marines, which was the 38 Long Colt Cartridge so they asked for samples and so since John Browning was also trying to sale his new 1911 he entered his handgun in the new Colt cartridge the 45ACP, but someone in the War Department wanted to look at the New sidearm the Germans were using so they asked for some P-08's and they received the new 9mm luger ammunition. You do know why the War Department choice was with the 45ACP, rather than the 9mm luger, its because the 45ACP would kill a horse, where the 9mm would not.
George, holt! 1911 9mm is quite different then today's...I was quite avidly against a 9mm, thinking it was a woman's cartridge, but I changed my mind, now I think that pistol calibre is just not powerful enough for it to be given such a emphasis...in mg opinion we should carry something within limit (nothing under 9mm, nor over 357) but with a good round capacity, so nothing under 7 rounds. Anyway, it's all about the shotgun when it comes to big pressure. To me the rifle is an overkill on an urban environment.
@@comanchedase Your point is well taken, but lets look at history, The reason the 9mm is the chosen cartridge of the FBI has more to do with the facts that agency has the requirment that its agents must qualify every 3-4 months with duty ammo. When the agency had that famous shootout in Florida some years ago they were armed with the 9mm and the Model 19 revolver in 357. So the bad guys had the 10mm and shot those FBI through the cars they were hiding behind. So the agency switched to the 10mm. Then too many agents were out on workers comp illness claims of wrists bones being broken. So S&W invented the 40 caliber, which is on paper similar to the 45 ACP. If the 9mm is superior then why does a officer of the law have to empty his gun into a suspect every time he has to use it on a criminal? The Army proved it in 1911, that a single shot of 45ACP was enough to kill a horse, while the 9mm would not.
Interesting analysis. Given that the .40S&W is a ballistic dead ringer for the 150 year old .38-40 Colt model P it makes sense that it would work well without fancy high tech ammo.
Here in Georgia many local agencies as well as several our our state agencies have made the transition from the .40/.45GAP to the 9MM. With that I know some have also changed their ammo to more modern loads such as ; the hornady critical duty, Speer gold dots, Winchester ranger t-series and PDX-1 and most of them in the bonded form. I personally favor the 9MM, to me it obvious that with modern ammo the 9MM meets and sometimes exceeds then capability of the .40. Then again as you stated some agencies are sticking with the archaic loads such as hydra shocks and standard Winchester hollow points that cannot meet the standards for stoping threats but instead provide the departments with a cheaper yet worse performing option.
+Michael Simpkins When you cross tech levels some of the 9mm loads do in fact exceed .40 and .45 ACP of yesteryear. Especially if you take into account that legacy ammo has very poor consistently in what you could expect the ammo to do down range.
Picked up a good 23 and a 27 from AO in smyrna that where cop trade ins. both shoot great. Little bit of holsterwear. Went another 5-10 miles to the smyrna factory for a free refurb. No complaints
According to the FBI firearms division, the 40 has no ballistic advantage over the 9mm. The 40 also causes unnecessary excessive wear on a handgun, requiring more maintenance. I had to carry one for twelve years. So glad LE has gone back to the 9mm.
@@kurtp5379 you are wrong. Don't be so naive. Stop believing the lies from the FBI. The .40 caliber pistols are designed and created for the .40 caliber round. The 10mm caliber pistols are also designed and created for the 10mm round. This is a fact. The heavier .40 caliber bullet hits harder, causes more damage and kills faster. The 9mm round has only good hitting power and maximum speed when loaded to +P velocities and fired out of a 10" inch barrel. Please research these facts. UNITED STATES I. R. I. E. Investigation Research International Educator US 5977293425 The real "X-Files" AGENT Sinne'
I reload my ammo. So I can use .40 cal rounds at 155, 165 or 180 grains of lead also I can load the powder to get the desired velocity I want to achieve. Lastly a well placed shot is the key no matter what the load is.
free field training With the shorter barrel 147 gives the extra push needed wth a short barrel. I've seen testing of 124 threw denim & ballistic gel never even start to open up. Your loosing a lot with a short barrel like on a G43 and Shield.
I retired in 2000 and back then we had gone from .38 revolvers to Sig Sauer P226, which was the only gun they bought for us. They were factory ordered with inability to be fired single-action. I have recently heard that the department have gone on to Glock 40mm. I was going to visit our Firearms Unit at the range to ask why but looks like you saved me a trip. Thanks for these videos.
My department used 40 S&W Winchester white box 180 grain JHP, it worked great. I won’t go into detail but it works. 9 mm fan boys underestimate the 40 S&W calling it slow in worthless. 9mm in fact is weak when it comes to Barrier penetration.
Most likely that is a bonded round. Bet the case is not nickel plated. Picked up a few cases cheap a few years ago when there was a huge overrun on a DEA contract.....
My old border patrol buddies carried .40 with Winchester ranger jhp bonded. And I think the old golden Sabre is bonded. I got my hands on both seem like great rounds. What do you think about the sig vcrown.
Rico Mack so would you say for overall protection, home protection etc. that a 40 is gonna have a lot more stopping or knock down power than a 9mm, as in making a big enough difference that it's a much better choice for personal protection? Also what do you think about hollow points? Does that make a huge difference in stopping power and if so, what about accuracy, does that affect it?
As a retired federal law enforcement officer I carry my glock19 during the summer and spring useing 124 grain hollowpoints. Basically Hydra-Shok ammo, it preformed well for me. And I'm still useing as defensive ammo to this day. And for our issued mp5s 124 grain plus p plus. And now I use the same in my ar9 carbine as my primary home defensive weapon. And during winter months I carry my glock23, and I was using 125 grain hydro shocks hollowpoints. But I've changed over to 135 grain hollowpoints for deeper penetration in heavier winter clothing. As far as recoil it's basically a training issue and useing a proper technique to control the recoil impulse. And basically if I've got time and advanced warning I'm going to my ar9 or my ar15 carbines to deal with any armed situations. Under the stress of a gun fight the three points of contact and the longer sight radius of a 9mm ar9 pistol or carbine will be more accurate. And there's no doubt of the damage a 12guage shotgun can cause. And depending on the situation and circumstances, you might find yourself in. Weapons selection is critical. And one lesson learned from the Miami shootout that was learned was bring enough gun for the situation you are going to encounter.
It's all about shot placement. What good is a 45 if you can't hit anything with it? Now I like the 45 round I like the 40 as well. But I carry a 9mm S&W SD9. It's a 16+1 with Federal HST Hollow Points. Very accurate, great follow up shots very controllable.
I dig the Lucky Gunner links. They're the only gun blog that I feel really does their homework and gives reliable advice. Also I'm waiting for the obligatory comment from the 10mm fanatics.
I like the 40. I carry a 40 with hat ammo. I also have a 45 para commander that I carry occasionally. I use 230 gr hydra Shock in that. Buy I really favor the 40. I am going to be getting an HK VP40 and getting rid of the XD.
I carry an HK USP .40, with the jet funnel magwell and 16 round magazines. I love the gun, and I love the way the .40 handles and shoots in the pistol.
I did alot of research before I got my 40 I picked right. I like it it's not for everyone. But I kinda like the medium power pistol for auto. Anything bigger too heavy for me. Good job s & w.
@@nminskey and with the right ammo it's faster than the 9mm , this is why Yeager and the rest of the , 9 guys out there are upset because the . 40 is a BAD ASS M"*#^¥°F#*" "^°ER hands down 💪👍.
most of the ammo we get at the gun stores seem to be watered down versions of what otherwise could be a good caliber to use the only difference in the 9mm,,40 and 45 is one puts a bigger hole than the other outside of that there is no real advantage unless you spend a little more money for Underwood or Buffalo Bore ammo and then the .45acp really shines at 980-1025fps most store ammo cant compare
Excellent argumentation on .40 cal rationale. As a public school teacher I fully understand about government funding/inexpensiveness driving policy. Appears that cops should be going to range monthly firing 140+ grain so they are used to the recoil. I am interested in buying the Sig 226 in 9 mm or .40 with the M1911 Milspec 45 ACP Springfield.
I, too, have noticed a marked increase in suspects requiring multiple projectile impacts to neutralize the threat. 40 and 357 Sig never had that problem. Retired Deputy 30 years service.
thank you sir
Same thing is happening where I'm from lots of police shootings where assailants are hit 5 or more times with 9mm Glock17s & they almost always survive the encounter.
Nine millimeter is the every person round. It's common it's reasonably effective enough with the right ammunition and relatively controllable for the average person. Maybe it's just me. But I feel that my 40 is actually less snappy and shoots flatter than a nine millimeter. Does it have a little more recoil? Yes, but it's a straight back recoil, not a muzzle flip recoil, if you know what I mean... I always get better groups with my forty.
@@Sandhill1988 If my theory is right, you get better groups with 40 cal than 9mm because regular factory 9mm ammo is lousy, on average.
Try this. Get some ordinary 9mm and 40 cal ammo, two or three brands for each caliber. The ordinary, affordable stuff. It can be fmj or hp or flat nose, whatever.
Shoot groups at 30 or 40 yards. Tell me what you get, if the 40 groups are better or worse than the 9mm, which has the most variance, etc.
Good luck. I'm with you 50 is perfectly comfortable to shoot.
.357 sig wins the gel test. It is ferocious!
Well done video and a thorough explanation. Always learning new things here at UA-cam University... I am just an old Marine who twice went to war with a 1911A1 45 ACP, with 230 grain ball ammo. Now I conceal carry a Glock 30S 24/7/365 for self defense because 10+1 rounds of 45 ACP with the ability to use a G21 magazine with 13 rounds in a reload makes me happier than 15+1 9mm. - Never fired a 40 caliber but I hear it has a much snappier recoil than the sweet push from a 45 ACP and like I said, at 72 I am an "old Marine" now. Confidence in what you carry and the ability to deliver hot lead down range accurately when it counts is where it's at boys.
I agree with your premises that controllability is an issue. Having several 9mms, 2 .40's, and a brace of 1911s, I can say that the recoil and the caliber are not directly related. In particular, I have 2 Taurus G2cs - one in 9mm and one in .40. The .40 is softer-recoiling and more controllable than the 9mm version.
I suspect it has to do with the relative strength of the recoil springs; if not, then the pressure rise curve. Several friends who have shot them side by side have commented exactly the same: the .40 is more controllable.
I also have a S&W 4006 in .40. A much heavier gun, but it has far less controllability and much heavier recoil. I suspect the combination of slide weight and recoil spring rate conspire to slam the slide into the slide stop, making it snappier - more so than my 1911s, for example, and more like the G2c in 9mm.
The physics of recoil is more complex than can be expressed by a simple measure like recoil energy and velocity; acceleration and deceleration, barrel axis height, slide mass, etc. all add up. I think the FBI and law enforcement might have moved away from the .40 not because of the round, but rather because of the gun in which it was chambered, and the controllability of the specific gun chosen.
I will take my lightweight, soft-recoiling, concealable Taurus G2C in .40 over any of my 9mms for controllability and follow-up shot time. It may be small, but it's definitely the easiest to control and make multiple on-target hits with. YMMV - it could be just MY recoil spring; but it's definitely repeatable, and empirically confirmed across multiple other shooters who've tested it.
Thank you Sir for your Services. I truly appreciate it. I also apologize for the way my generation is handling things. Born 90'. We need your generation to do video diaries and a whole lot so we have references of what being American meant. We already need them tbh. Thank you for your sacrifices and courage to face the enemy in my honor. God bless you.
@@MrGsteele agreed. The platform makes a big difference even among guns with the same caliber.
i shot my uncles 1911 once and it didn't seem like it recoiled as much or was nearly as loud as 9mm
Thank you for your service. The 45 was really popular and the .40cal wasn't demanding introduced until 1990. Just curious how it would had done for I r the military. I know my buddy used a 40cal Ruger in desert storm the 91dc 40cal. I had one and regret getting rid of it
As a Glock 27 owner, I like the fact that 40 seems to have power, maybe it's a psychological thing, but it gives confidence.
Lol yep it's weird but I feel the same way even with fmj's. I think that flat point might help but I really have no clue
My .40 feels like a little cannon compared to a 9 but they share similar results aside from the size of the hole it leaves in you
@@DeathDealer1825 Having learned to shoot with a 9mm and shot hogs with both the results are not similar. One you'll find the hog dead 50+ yards away, the other will have the hog spinning, and blind running into tree's like a pinball machine. That's simply what happens when you get over 500ft/lbs of energy. The trade off is it's harder to shoot as well and takes more experience and practice.
I for example shot 9mm for about 5 years before moving to .40s&w and I wouldn't recommend anyone new to shooting buying a .40s&w especially if they aren't going to train regularly with it. The 9mm generally falls into the good enough category but when the target might be attacking me back which includes angry hogs I prefer something with enough energy to basically sucker punch them in the brain at the same time.
It's literally the difference between lethal holes, and lethal holes with brain bleeding from the pressure spike inside their bodies. Anything over 500ft/lbs of energy has this effect be it .45acp +p, .40s&w, .357sig, and the infamous .357 magnum (when fired from a proper length barrel). Also with .40s&w some loads do not meet those energy levels I would say avoid them.
@@slimjim7411 it's definitely more rough than a 9mm but I only buy good ammo I dont trust cheap ammo
@Slim Jim 500 fpe is still 500 fpe no matter what diameter your projectile is. Factory ammo wise Buffalo bore 147g Hardcast flat points is right at 550 so 500 is spicy 9mm but not even the cap. If you really wana go for it I could load 600 fpe in 9mm with relative confidence in reliability.
The reality is that 500 fpe is absolutely overkill for a person sized threat, 200 fpe will reliably poke holes in people.... now i would prefer to be the guy with the 500 fpe but ya humans make for terrible backstops in general.
It's not that I can't understand using the bigger calibers for the increased power but at least in my experience most of the guys who insist on using .40 or .45 are carrying a load that is essentially the power of 9mm +P...... 450-550 fpe.
Of course 750 fpe will put em down faster but in .40 you have grand total of like 4 factory loads that even break 700. If your bigger caliber isn't offering more power then as the orger dude said it's purely psychological and not even for the guy you're shooting it doesn't make him any more scared no it gives you fake confidence...
Foot pounds ain't perfect for sure but it's the only quantifiable way we have to measure power.
~420-450 is where the majority of 9mm duty ammo is at because that's still overkill but still in the very controllable range, a lighter projectile will always have less recoil even with identical power and since expanding ammo has become standard having an increased diameter simply isn't worth it.
First homicide I ever worked as a rookie almost two decades ago was a gang banger shot with a .380 in the chest. DRT before he hit the ground. There is no "magic bullet" or caliber when it comes to handguns. It is all about putting that shot right into the boiler room. But I tthink we all know that, or SHOULD at least. I've also been right there on a call watching a suspect survive three shots to the upper torso with .223 Hornady TAP from another officer's rifle at pretty much point blank range. Messy but no vitals struck. So it's all about shot placement regardless if it's a 9mm, .357, .40, .45, 10mm, etc etc. Just throwing that out there.
I've seen a guy get shot in the head with a 9mm and it went in deep. He was conscious and talking, he lived. Responded to a guy who got shot in the chest with a Raven .25. It clipped the bottom of his heart and he bled out in about 4 minutes, he died. Depends on a lot of factors, including blind luck.
+steven larrabee ua-cam.com/video/zFtILkXcPA4/v-deo.html
More energy/penetration allows for less perfection in placing shots ie real life.
+Steve Pounder How so? Exactly how does energy negatively effect accuracy? Psychologically?
free field training I may have worded it poorly. What I was trying to imply is yes any round can be lethal. But in my opinion a large round with good controlled expansion will create a larger wound channel giving you a larger chance of dropping your target if you did not hit a vital organ such as the heart.
The best ammo I've shot and never disappointed with was the 10mm. BUT, when it comes to dependability, expectations, and performance, I'll always stick to my .40 for duty and concealed carry. Like someone said below, it just feels right to me and does exactly what I need it to do. Thanks for the video. I like the ones that are unbiased and give me something to think about.
40 is essentially a 10mm short.
Thank you great video.
I love my 40 cal.
I just love it.
40sw is a beast of a round that has a lot of untapped potential and a lot of mislead hate 40 is awesome whether you like it or not
Do your own tests and don't listen to people on the internet that are mislead as well
40 is awesome
Dont listen to James Yeager of TN ... 😁
This is true you have a lot of paid guys preaching .9mm is the best and the new advanced ammo ( which no one else has 😂) makes the . 9mm the best, what a bunch of crap .!
That's right , I carry a 40 for the reason it will stop the bad guy without having to use all of 16+1 rounds of a 9mm because my ammo is going straight through the bad guy and not stopping he or she. I know for a fact from videos of test and my own test on different objects with FMJ's and JHP'S that hitting a human target center Mass with a 180 grain JHP'S will rip through some guts , vital organs, break some ribs and spine to stop any bad guys in Thier tracks. These guys on here that believe in Thier fantasy world that they will get a head shot in the time of panic and chaos you aim for center Mass ( the biggest target ) because even a miss of target 3-4 inches you will still hit vital organs and shut the bad guy down. I know I just pissed the 9mm guys off by saying I rely on 40 for protection but why would I choose a lesser firearm over the more powerful in every comparison possible so that's why I trust 40 because I've seen what it can do .....
camping man, I see your point, and would agree that the 9 may not be as good as the 40 n some situations, but I have seen what a 9 and 45 will do as well. they do the job just fine I might add. I have a 9 , 45 ,38, I see no need for the 40.what so ever. if I were to go to another caliber, it would be the 10mm, the actual papa of the 40. the 45acp in 185 will do the same as the 40 if not more. see no need for the 40 when I already had the battle proven 45 and 9....even the 38 is proven.. just saying. to each his own
I agree I’ve been using liberty civil defense ammo and it’s very manageable recoil. Though I do agree that technology has caught up with ammo to make 9mm more then efficient it’s just why take a chance that it might not penetrate a leather jacket. I live in Michigan and it’s cold here more then it’s warm so a round that will make it through winter clothing is more important then having lighter recoil. Well that’s my two cents at least.
I was in an officer involved shooting over ten years ago, i was carrying the glock 22 with 180 grain hydroshock ammo. All it took was 1 shot center mass to stop and completely incapacitate the subject (drt). I still carry that same glock 22 today and wouldn’t risk carrying anything else!
I've alway's thought that the Glock 22 is the perfect duty gun. Pretty hard to beat 15 rounds of .40 s&w! Glock 23 for civilian carry or 26 for deep concealment (with a backup hi cap magazine for just in case)
Plus you can get a 9mm barrel or 357 sig cinversion barrels for it.
Fern, 1 shot CoM stoppage? You didn't shoot the threat in the CoM. You shot him through the spinal canal from the front, while aiming CoM. I'm sorry you had to experience the act of ending a life but I'm damn glad you had the mind and skill set nessecary to do what you were required to do. (8 combat deployments with 2nd Bn 75th RR I understand)
Ferndawg I would switch to HST or GD.
All three of my shootings happened during the revolver era and the issued .38 served me well. The first time was with the old lead round nose bullet and a single round dropped the suspect before he could get off a shot. My second shooting we were using the same round in a gunfight w/armed robbery suspects and it only slowed the bad guys down a bit. My last shooting we had the FBI 158 grain hollow points and that suspect was dropped w/three rounds from my issued revolver.
Hey thanks for the video. I have to be honest. I've carried a .40 cal Sig Sauer for almost 11 years now. I'm not an officer, however for several years I did cary for my job. I was a contractor for various govt agencies, including police departments, installing security equipment in high crime and high risk areas. Why have I always carried a 40? Simple, it's what I am most comfortable with. I learned to shoot a handgun on a 40 cal, and I trust it. I think sometimes people overlook that. I own 45s, 357 Sig, and other calibers....but when it counts I want to know I have the gun and caliber I know best.
A lot of people will read what you wrote and much of them won't see what you wrote, that the most important thing is to know your firearm that you will use as a go to in a self defense protection situation. I don't care what you own just know your firearm. 👍
How often did you bust someone for a roach is my question
Yours is the most logical argument for the .40 that I have ever heard.
I love the old school gen 3’s with that frying pan finish and glossy polymer. Beautiful pair brother
I do too. My gen 3 G23 has the frying pan finish but my gen 3 G29 does not. It has the flat black that scratches easily.
I absolutely LOVE gen 3 too…. But only because that’s what us normies have here in California…. Lol 😂
With my department in Texas we use the 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot 180gr. This stuff works! It's like blowing out a birthday candle! I personally have had to use 9mm in early 2003 in a deadly force encounter using federal hydro shock 124gr +P+. I had to use like 6 rounds to stop the guy because of no expansion. I wouldn't trade my current carry ammo for anything.
+Arthur Smith Sometimes I think the hyper shock gets it's good reputation entirely from people who have never used them for their intended purpose. Everyone I know who has switched to a larger round or changed ammo shortly after.
@The Shootist @Arthur Smith: The Federal Hydra-Shok is old, unreliable hollowpoint technology KNOWN to have unreliable expansion results. Some depts. have been too slow to change because it requires time and effort to justify changes. A poor reason.
The Shootist in all the gel tests I've seen, Speer gold dot has been the best prefomer in wound channel. No matter who uses their bullet (i.e Underwood). Massive tissue damage.
The Shootist I used the same, awesome round.
Yep gold dot 180gr .40 is where its at
It's so interesting to see an actual police officer so friendly and comfortable in character, like they are actually human beings, you know, genuinely nice people.
Most are, it's just when on duty they have to deal with a lot of obnoxious, argumentative people.
Try working a schedule a cop works and deal with the asshats all day long. Then tell me how friendly you are after a while of that.
Cops are people too. They get a bad rap I think. Most are life savers and good citizens doing one of the hardest jobs ever.
@@828enigma6 not an excuse
@@2KCamaroZ28SS find a new job they aren't cut out for law enforcement. Nothing wrong with that
Good points, I like .40 myself and I've had them all. I tend to prefer Glocks because I suppose that's what I'm most accustomed to, but the .40 offers almost 9mm capacity, same platform size, it hits harder and pokes bigger holes. I agree shot placement is number one, but a larger expanding bullet increases the chances of a critical hit. I like the .45 as well but again as a Glock guy, I just like the 9mm/.40 size better, the .45's and 10mm's feel like bricks.
We should all just carry 45-70 and turn everything into ground beef.
500 s&w minimum
or 8 GA shotguns! Those will clear the skies when loaded with birdshot. :D
Jay Bruce idk why this made me laugh so hard
I bought a 45/70 last year and I LOVE that gun and that round
I did shoot a deer once with the 45-70 round, the exit wound was big enough for me to comfortably fit my entire hand into. I wonder how that round would penetrate a level 2a flak jacket?
Holy Shit! Has this guy taken a breath yet? Sir, you might want to switch to decaf! hahaha
That's exactly what I was thinking. LOL
I was actually thinking HOW talking hands drink coffee! Then, if they were ever going to take a breath. I was waiting for them to pass out!
There’s a musician trick (for singers anyway) where you can breath through your nose with your mouth open and can keep taking like that(think that’s how it goes?!?) probably what he’s doing
Why don’t you guys drop the sarcastic comments and listen to what the man had to say.
Shows he knows what he's talking about. Not guessing or making stuff up as he goes along.
I carried a 45 for years when switched to a different agency I started using the 40. I just believe any of the 9 40 or 45 cal. Would be fine as long as you have a good weapon and train with it and the gear you carry holster ect
Best explanation I've heard about why cops use 40 Cal. Thank you
I'm by no means in law enforcement, but my choice in a cartridge would be tied to my desire to transfer 100% of the energy in my projectile, into my opposition. Also balancing how much recoil would affect follow up shots. And I guess capacity would have to be factored in as well, so that would bring me all the way back to good old .40.
Old? its the youngest!
@@Gieszkanne By far!
Was at the carwash washing my truck when approached by a couple of men, one with a gun and one with a knife, threw my keys and wallet sorta towards the feet of guy with the gun, when he bent over to pick them up I drew my cm40 took out the gunman first then the one with the knife (dumbass didn't run,I was actually hoping/giving him a chance to but he acted as if he was gonna stab me, SmH): anyways one shot each to mid-lower chest/upper stomach area is all it took! At first I used I think it was a little heavy but after I seen the one shot stopping power I don't mind
1 .40 round is all it takes sometimes these rounds are underestimated
I work in a ER and never once said “ oh he only got shot with a 9mm he’s going to be fine
40 fanboy's are funny
Agreed, this is fucking nonsense. Getting shot is fucking getting shot. Whats this guy worried about anyway? Police shootings usually end with a dozen bullets in the person they shoot.
guess it depends on where you get shot, not that i'am Advocating getting Shot.
@Moe Green The day I got my first IWB holster I had a friend time my draw with my full size S&W from a "hands up" position. I am not the biggest ditz in the world and am in shape but I am autistic and not as coordinated as other guys at tasks without practice. I could consistently draw in less than .33 seconds without any practice gripping my pistol through my shirt, i.e. average human max reaction time. The majority of police officers are shot at close range by people acting cool then rapidly drawing. No good way to do the job, first world people just can't really accept the only real way law enforcement can deal with the crime of a 3rd world hell hole, USA between Armenia and Uganda in violence.
@Moe Green what the hell are you talking about? How do you even reach your conclusions? What is your problem with this video?
You explained that well. I’m really tired of the new 9mm fad. Most agencies up here in Canada that have switched back to 9mm are using the same 20 year old Winchester SXT 147gr bullet that they used when they figured out 9mm wasn’t stopping people. I’ve seen 9mm get stuck in cardboard sun visors after going through the windshields. The 9mm fad is based on new bullet technologies that police departments don’t use.
The new 9mm fad is to cover up the true fact that the FBI went back to .9mm because of all the small female and soft hand girly men that are in the agency now .
welder man absolutely correct.
True. Not to mention that the whole “modern 9mm technology is so much better...” argument is null because that same technology applies to all calibers. Modern 9mm is better than old 9mm, but modern .40 is better than old .40.
This theory that people talk would only be true when comparing old .40 to modern 9mm.
@@fearnonebutone4977 you nipped it in the butt. 9mm has high end bullets. But same high end bullet for 9mm are available by same manufacturer for the .40 that will out perform it in the 9mm. Not to mention a basic 180gr fmj is a amazing basic bullet. Ive put it to the test with trapped feral hogs. 1 chest shot on 250-350lb hogs to the cross in there chest. Puts them down quick. Not same story with 9mm.
@@joseontiveros624 Nipped it in the bud.
I totally agree with your assessment. My colleagues keep saying the 40 is dead, and new bullet advancements make it obsolete but the same advancements pertain to all calibers. And when a bullet fails, larger caliber always wins. Another issue is the short and weak moniker makes people think the caliber is weak when in actuality is one of the most powerful calibers available in carry-able auto handguns on par with 357 sig and 45 acp. Ive seen LE Ranger and others be over 500 ft lbs in 40. Capacity aside, I don’t think any gun knowledgeable person would choose a 9mm over over 40 S&W if confronted by a bear for instance. It is the best compromise for me on stopping power and capacity. I use Gold Dots, Win Rangers, Golden Saber etc
I want full loaded 10mm Auto against a bear. I honestly don't understand why Alaska State Troopers don't issue Glock 20's as standard issue over the Glock 22's. On the Nat Geo show that follows them there were a few episodes where they couldn't get their long gun and had to use their Glock. I would want to carry a G20 with 2-3 mags of good bonded ammo and then a mag or so of hardcore hardcast +P+ "not for the weak of heart" 10mm 200grainers!
+nateo200 be careful of that buffalo bore Hardcast 10mm stuff. It has been known to KB glocks if used too much.
Well, since you are talking about bears then I would choose 375H&H magnum 😉
I dont have bears or any type of big animal where im from so 9mm it is for my carry. I do train with 40 as well but prefer 9mm.
💪👍.40 all the way .
if it kills the jackass that's trying to kill you it's a good caliber
+Justin Moore Truer words have never been spoken.
I can understand being tied to certain weights and calibers with a job, but the .40 is an overrated round.
Amen to that. Machetes a good caliber.
Justin Moore : Your comment is off base because first one use a caliber that first has the reputation of being a stopper and not all ammo functions the same in the lengths of barrels . This is why citizens need to practice much more often plus sign up for advance firearm classes 🔫 You could line up 10 gun owners at your local WAL-MART and only three out of that 10 practice and maybe one of the remaining three is really a worth while shooter 🔫 People just don't practice but they cn talk my ear off about what's new in the gun world 😃
MyHotdogWeiner : Hopefully you can justified the use of this ammo from a shotgun in court . Play with this in the woods but use 00 buck if you are going to actually shoot the bad guy . Please join the organization that can save you jail time & money if you might need legal help ! After you might join you will quickly understand my pass sentence .
One thing I do know, a well placed round is better than a flesh wound, especially when it counts. With any Caliber. My philosophy is worry less about the cartridge and more about shot placement.
Shot placement is the advice people that have never been in an altercation give. They are just regurgitating the garbage they heard others say. You clearly haven't tried to hit a moving target that is behind cover while you are moving your ass as quick and efficiently as possible because you have no cover due to walking up on a vehicle stop, in a parking lot, porch, or yard. I have in all of those cases and at that point your weapon is more of a deterrent while you're hoping you can shots on target.
@@davegoodwin1848 so with that being said, you're not saying that shot placement doesn't matter, but that it's difficult to place a good shot in that instance. But you still agree that shot placement is important right? So with your experience, do you think it doesn't matter what the caliber is, and that any will work?
@@davegoodwin1848 also, what's your opinion on hollow points? I would think that plays a big factor in 'knock down power'?
@@christopherwalker6056 very good points! IF you can get a good bead on the target and you hit a vital...heck, even a major area then shot placement does matter but it's a combination of training and luck at times. As for caliber I've been present for final examinations (autopsies) where death was caused by .22, .380, and up. Caliber along with ammo used is situationally important. FMJ's and extreme penetrator will be (more) effective through barriers. No expansion as with hollow points but there is possible fragmentation. A 40, 45, 10, and often 9mm will be deadly through specific barriers but if you're trying to shoot say through a vehicle panel with a .22, .25, .380 then good luck. In all, caliber in conjunction with correct ammo for the specific situation matters. But who carries that many different guns and FMJ plus hollow points?
I own many guns but for service I use a 9mm with gold dot although I much prefer HST which I use for personal edc. For training I use Fiocchi 124 grain hollow points as they are really close to HST.
@@christopherwalker6056 knock down power? Not really a believer in that since in practice rather than theory there are many factors. Yes, energy in foot pounds matter but it's the size of the wound channel and bullet trajectory (tumbling) that gives hollow points the edge instead of a smaller all the way through wound...which still sucks and is deadly. A lot of ppl think it looks like a movie or tv show when someone is struck yet it couldn't be further from the truth. The "power" doesn't knock someone 5 feet backwards off their feet. The majority are still aware and functional after being wounded. Best to put several shots on them.
Thankyou for your opinion, I wasn't clear about where .40 cal. Compared to the 9 mm.
Interesting. A DEA guy told me once, years ago, that they carried .40's because they were better than .45's at penetrating a windshield. He said the .45 round tended to bounce up and off the windshield if facing the car because of the bulk of the round.
If you know the history of the 40 S&W. That will tell you he's right concerning the 40 S&W.
I've tried that with my friend's G21 & every shot passed right through the windshield & I'm not even a fan of 45 auto.
That makes a lot of sense thanks for the video. I noticed if you go to the Lucky Gunner ammo test results. And you compare 9, 40 and 45. All Fired out of a 3.5" barrel. 40 s&w has the least amount of projectiles that did not expand properly.
Great video. I personally use .40 caliber. This is because when I finally turned 21 to buy a gun and drink 🎉, the first pistol I wanted and bought was the 1st Gen XDM 4.5" .40 Caliber. At that time, 2008, the model was new and Springfield only made it in that barrel length and caliber. This was because at that time .40 caliber was popular with Lawn Enforcement, thanks to the FBI testing considering .40 caliber as "the ideal cartridge for self defense and lawn enforcement." Some XDM owners might not know this but It wasn't until six months later after the model's first release that they made it in 9mm. And then the next gen came out in different barrel lengths and calibers. Even though today in mordern times and with ammunition technology making other calibers perform as well as .40, including smaller calibers. I'm still glad I bought my .40 caliber, especially the XDM. Beautiful pistol, great aesthetics influenced by purpose and function, high capacity, match grade barrel making it very accurate, competition trigger, and it comes like this out of the box. No other caliber will give me the capacity, muzzle energy, penetration, damage, and ballistics that .40 caliber will. Especially, since I use Hornady, one of the best. And with my AR-15 in .300 blackout, also using Hornady, it's just like my .40 caliber. I get high capacity, the same as 5.56, the muzzle energy, penetration, damage, and ballistics of a .30 caliber bullet similar to 7.62x39, with the accuracy and linear recoil of an AR-15, and not a jumpy AK. With my XDM in .40 caliber, and my AR-15 in .300 blackout, It's the best of both worlds. So if you had a choice and no policy restrictions. What sidearm and duty rifle, in what calibers, would you use and carry on duty?
I had s choice when I went into LE and had to buy my own weapons. I carried a Sig Model 220 45 acp, a S&W airweight 38 spl BUG, a NAA 22 mag mini- revolver as a get off of me bug, a Remington 870 12 gage and a Ruger mini-14 in my patrol car.
I like 40 cal just fine, but never carried one on duty. I did carry a 357 mag revolver on duty at a different department for a while and totally trust both the 357 caliber and trust a revolver.
9mm is not my favorite caliber, but I believe it has it’s place and for me personally that place is in a small pocket pistol, something like the Sig P365.
any caliber is better than no caliber, I have carried everything from a 22lr to a 10mm. 99% of the time either will do the job. shot placement is more important than bullet caliber. good video
+everett higginbotham I think there is a point of diminishing returns to the "shot placement is king" argument. If the round dosen't have the punch to drive a straight line through an aggressor then where you put the bullet is of little consequence.
Right, along the line of recoil management I can put 10 22lr in a 3 inch circle in under 3 seconds. Whatever the outcome 10 in a proper area for that round, the bad guy isn't walking away. I'm actually actively trying to get the 22 TCM for carry. The ballistics are looking really interesting.
Of course I'm talking about velocitors and similar high performance 22lr ammo
+everett higginbotham The question becomes if they will hit anything inside the target consistently. I've seen far to many people have .32,.25, and .22 rounds go all over the place and STOP upon hitting anything hard (like bone or a cell phone) to subscribe to that philosophy. At the end of the day, if you are confident in it than there is nothing I am going to do to convince you, but I wouldn't suggest a handgun round below .380 for self defense. And in .380 I really prefer FMJ just to make sure it will make it in.
+everett higginbotham then we get into the inherent reliability issues with rinfire ammo...
This sounds backwards and crazy, but when I go shooting I start with full power 44 mag. After 50 rounds of that it's real easy to shoot .40 all day. It's not snappy at all, almost a pleasure to shoot. I shoot the 44 double action and it great training for trigger control.
Smith & wesso. 69 combat! Yea!
Good video... .40, 9mm, .45 and .38 will always be a back and forth opinion... if a person wants to know what stops, ask the surgeons
.40's work . It was a mistake for the agencies/departments to abandon the round.
Governments way of slowly disarming America. Then there gonna transition into .22 cause of some justified bs. Then go green with slingshots. 👀
Anything from .38 special to .45 ACP should be adequate as long as you can shoot
Anything from .22lr-45acp
Shot placement. Enough said.
@@Astro_touches_children Dont think I would be comfortable shooting at a charging bear with a 25 acp aiming for its eye socket or using a 5 shot 38 snub going against 2 mass shooter armed with M16s. If you are good enough to hit a moving target the size of an apple under extreme duress at random ranges ranges you got my respect. I will just aim center mass and hope that a more powerful round will cause more damage and with any luck, hit a vital.
Louder for the people in the back!
@@FoulPet the smallest I have is 9mm. Your points are all valid, I thought it was assumed in this conversation that mouse calibers were not recommended. That being said,if I were attacked while holding a.22, I would return fire.
Going back to my comment,if you miss,it doesn't matter how many times you miss. If I were in grizzly country I would arm myself accordingly. And hope to hit, under duress with adrenaline over load full on. I will not be a keyboard raider and say I never miss. I will say I have never been chased by a bear and you're right again, no one knows how they will aquit themselves in an unknown situation.
Back in the 1980’s my agency authorized certain semi-automatic handguns to be carried in lieu of their issue .357 revolvers. (We also allowed them to qualify with both if they wished.) Initially we authorized .45 ACP and .38 Super with the proviso that if the 9mm was brought up to the 110 grain .357 magnum velocity, it too would be authorized. A 9mm 115+P+ cartridge was being carried by the ISP and we ordered some and tested this load. It averaged ~1,300 fps+P+ 9mm JHP loads. It was immediately adopted by my agency.The chamber pressure back then for the +P+ 9mm was ~42,500 PSI while the standard 9mm was ~33,500 PSI. Two notes: 1} We issued standard velocity 115 grain 9mm for practice (150 rounds per quarter) and 100 rounds of fresh duty +P+ 9mm on qualification day. The Agents were to fire the 72 round qualification course with their previous quarter’s +P+ issue ammunition.The recoil characteristics of the +P+ 115 grain and the standard velocity 115 grain 9mm were quite similiar. The +P+ 115 grain JHP @~1,300 fps worked well in the field in dfensive shootings. The agancy switched to the .40S&W in early 1996. The .40 S&W 155 grain JHP service issue load had significantly more recoil. For example, the US Border Parol classes usually had a few Agents or no Agents needing remedial training needed after qualification with their .40’s while the immigration classes had a ~50% failures rate even after remedial training. After DHS was formed this trend continued. Since then, the other devisions of DHS have requested a switch to the 9mm and that, as I understand, is taking place as I write this. Knowing that the +P+ 115 grain 9mm had worked well in the past I am satisfied that it will, once again serve well in defensive shootings.That is IF the 115 grain JHP +P+ is once again adopted as an agency issue round. A +P+ 9mm 115 grain JHP @~ 1,300 fps worked fine. I am not at all sure that the 147 grain 9MM will save the lives of the folks in DHS, regardless of it’s chamber pressure. That is, unless some the 147 grain 9mm cartridge can somehow achieve a muzzle velocity of at least 1,200 fps., preferably 1300 fps. - kw
The field tests I've seen with .40 vs .45 ACP, plus the options in weight and velocity,
made the .40 S&W make sense for me. It's a great intermediate round that gives you higher capacity than a .45 in a smaller package. I'm not in an OC state, and I am not going to conceal a 1911, Glock 21, or Springfield XD. A .45 is an excellent caliber, and for some it could make sense for EDC, but for myself it is a bedside table solution. I carry a Walther P99 IWB, and sometimes the SIG P938 on my ankle or in my car as a backup.
The caliber you have in your pocket is better than the caliber you left at home.
when "trendy gun guys" (LOL!) as stated by someone earlier gripe about felt recoil in the .40, yap endlessly about "shot placement", etc., and then state that they carry 9mm +P+ (+P+P) to make up the difference because "the ammo is better now...yeah, no. What theyve basically done is take a smooth shooting 9, and turned it right back into the 40 they love to hate. 40 s&w is a superior round for getting the job done, and I stillove my 9mm handguns even though I say this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it imo.
+Robert Alford that's why I love my hi-power with standard pressure 9mm. Slick, soft shooting, easy to hit with. Why screw with that to make it something it was never meant to be?
I love that people badmouth .40. It allows me to buy really cool guns for a lot less money than the 9mm counterpart.
damn it why tell them that i like getting glock 23 that still have the copper grease in it for $300
Good way to put it. Also, some semi-autos get worn out quickly shooting a steady diet of 9mm +P+. When 9mm +P doesn't get the job done, go to a larger caliber.
Once again your knowledge is Instrumental in honing my skills and abilities in my field. Keep up the Fantastic work and thank you
Thank you for this excellent and interesting explanation of reasons for using 40 cal in a duty gun. I understand that the 40 has been one of the most successful options.
The video is a little old now of course, but I'll comment anyway. We know that over the last 100 years calibers have included 38, 357, 9mm, 10mm, 40. Now 9mm is coming back in a lot of departments. Perhaps, departments can't settle properly on any one handgun because there are really two distinctly different things that a service firearm has to do. I understand that it has to be quick and jam-free at close quarters, but it also has to be powerful and accurate when there's a shootout. The conventional semi-autos we see are a very poor compromise IMO, and it is commendable that LEOs cope as well as they do with them. All too often, the much needed long gun is still in the back of the patrol car.
I'm suggesting that the solution is two very different weapons, to carry at all times: One which is nearer to being a rifle and another for quick draw and which doesn't jam when you fire it with an imperfect grip, say while grappling. Exactly what those configurations are is a decision for people who are more informed than me.
I hope that my observation doesn't offend anybody and that departments do finally settle on something which better helps LEOs to get the job done and stay as safe as possible.
Awww man, you didn't even mention Kinetic Energy! ;)
Great job covering the points. My research confirms what you contend. So long as you're using a) modern bonded-core hollow points, b) with a combined weight & muzzle velocity to generate 400+ ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, and c) you train with that ammunition, 9mm/.40/.357Sig/.45 are all superior, real-world proven, threat-stoppers.
+Michael Corbin truth. I'll still take my .357 though.
I bought my first firearm recently, an Astra A-100 in 40S&W. Think Sig P229, but all steel, and a bit simpler in design mechanically.
I chose it because I wanted something sub-$500, carries more than 10 rounds (A-100 in 40S&W carries 13+1), has excellent ergonomics, field tested reliability/durability, easy to clean, and preferably DA/SA.
I really wanted to get a 45ACP, but sadly the only ones to meet most of my requirements were way out of my budget (like the FN FNX-45 Tactical, or even a basic M1911). I looked at a civilian-improved version of a Makarov, but I was a bit skeptical about .380 Auto. I even mulled over getting a Hi Point in 45ACP, but I wanted my first pistol to be something nicer and actually stand a chance at concealment.
There were some Glocks in my budget, but their grips are possibly the worst grips I've ever held; even my Super Soaker from my childhood has a more comfortable grip than those pieces of garbage. So sadly, Glock was not an option as those grips feel like someone is digging their knuckle into my palm. The grip I loved best was the Walther CCP M2, but it only carries about 8 rounds of single stacked 9mm, and that was a huge drawback (if Walther ever makes a CCP M3, and is double stacked with at least 12 rounds, I'm sold).
Ultimately, I really like 40S&W because it's like a happy hybrid between 9mm and 45ACP in stopping power, capacity, and weight (weight is important, too). The main reason I wanted more than 10 rounds in a mag is because I conceal carry, and I want to only carry 1 additional mag. Even if I got a 45ACP, anything remotely concealable would have about a 7 round mag. So would I rather have 14+1 total available rounds of 45ACP on my hip, or 26+1 total available rounds of 40S&W? Seemed like the Astra A-100 was my best option, and for $271 after tax, I can say I made a dang good choice. It's a hoot to shoot, too!
I never saw any 10mm in my budget, either. 10mm would be really nice to have. Maybe some day I'll get a 10mm.
Oh, and my carry ammo is Hornady 175 grain Critical Duty Flexlock JHP in 40S&W. Having 27 of those buggers on my hip with 13+1 of them in the pistol ready to go and another 13 in the second mag is quite reassuring. :)
I conceal carry using a 5.11 Tactical fanny pack, worn on my hip. The A-100 juuuuust barely fits in it, with room for an additional mag. I could squeeze in 2 more mags, but that'd just be way too dang heavy for EDC, as the A-100 EMPTY weighs 34oz. It's a boat anchor compared to the Sig P229, but about way cheaper, and a lot more durable due to being all steel construction.
When I was working patrol, I had as much confidence in the .40 S&W as any pistol I ever carried. My testing indicated that the .40 and the .357 SIG are both superior to the 9mm for police patrol work. I've carried both on patrol, and would do so again. In the departments where it has been my choice of what ammo the department used, I've always specified Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot. My main reason for this is that Federal/Speer offer a practice round that is exactly matched to the duty round. So, I've always insisted that we use either the HST/American Eagle or the Gold Dot/Lawman combination. The HST expands a bit more, and the Gold Dot penetrates a bit more when compared to each other, but the difference is not large. In practice, I'll use either.
As a plain clothes investigator at the end of my career, I was allowed to carry what I wanted and I wasn't doing traffic stops. I was also getting old, so I carried a Glock 19 loaded with HST 124 grain +P rounds, or the Gold Dot 124 grain +P. For practice and qualification I used 124 grain 9mm NATO ball, specifically because it had the same recoil as these +P rounds and was a lot snappier and more realistic than cheap 115 grain loads. Free Field Training is 100% right that if you are a cop, you want your training and duty ammo to feel the same when you fire them.
The 9mm has been vastly improved over the last 15 years, while firearms training budgets and time allocations have been cut. The move to the 9mm makes some sense under those conditions, and a well designed premium 9mm cartridge is not a bad round. But for patrol officers who can shoot and are willing to practice, the .40 is still a litte better in my opinion.
Time will prove that the .40 will turn-out to be the best all-around gun it was intended to be, a “man stopper”.
And its so versatile. There are very light high velocity loads with 125 and 135gr up to slow and heavy with 200gr. But at the moment all new guns are in 9mm only. There are just Glock, S&W, HK and Beretta with production guns in 40S&W.
@@Gieszkanne.40 is a dead round. Very few people like that hunk of junk.
@@skinnyllama420 Its not. And its irrelevant how many use it. You can still even get ammo for real exotic rounds like 45 GAP.
@@Gieszkanne dead round meaning there is no new firearms being designed in 40. Of course you will always be able to buy the rounds. But go ask beretta what the big new .40 gun is. Hint non it’s dead.
Great vid! I am a .40 guy too.Also have a Hi power(1990) 9mm,sooweeet!
Great video, very informative. I like the 40 S&W... a great round.
Interesting part about the training Ammo vs Duty ammo. Great point!!
+Random Videos 🍩☕👍
40 is a great round. Here is where I think the problem came in. When the 40 first came around, and a lot of firearm manufacturers rushed to profits and just drilled bigger holes in 9mm frame pistols. The frames could not take the beating of the high pressure round and hence the 40 "snap" and broken firing pins and springs. My hk vp40 is extremely pleasant to shoot. It is a heavier, beefier gun than the vp 9mm. If you change out to an after market 40 barrel in a Glock 20, you will know the difference!
I am a 40 guy i always think is a personal preference and what you feel and your hands and it will do the job better.
Yes i know 9 is easy to find but 40 to me has more power.
It is just my personal opinion.
Affordable, regular practice with any reasonable caliber beats a super power firearm that is never fired.
Excellent point. Thanks from Texas.
That could be used as an argument against .40 S&W since 9mm ammo is usually cheaper and is more readily available. The biggest rule of gun fights is to have a gun on yourself, so people shouldn't take caliber debates too seriously and just carry whatever they can afford, shoot accurately, and conceal. Used police trade-in .40 Glocks can be a great value since most firearm enthusiasts don't want them.
@@befru the 9mm being more readily available doesn't apply now at the moment
Officers should have to qualify with duty, not training, ammo imo.
You are absolutely correct and unfortunately, this is how the spray and pray mentality of the weaker 9mm took over in law enforcement! Now we know where America's testosterone went.
They do qualify with duty ammunition commonly once a year when they are reissued fresh ammunition.
I have a gen4 Glock 22 police trade in from Atlanta Georgia. My brother is small town police officer and was just recently up graded to the gen4 Glock 22 from a gen2 Glock 17. We both carry bonded core defense rounds. Both of us have all our magazines extended +2(52 rounds total on our person). We practice with Winchester White Box 180gr. I believe wholeheartedly we couldn't do any better for the amount of money it costs yearly.
I'd say my fave nowadays is 357 Sig, 125 grain Speer gold dots, or Underwood ammo at 1475., with my Glock 23 I stay away from 180 grain, 165 grain shines at 1150 fps up to 1200 in Fed HST, (saw a vid) with my 9mm s I use Speer gold dots 124 grain +P, the same ammo NYPD swears by, but I also use 135 grain +P by hornady, I really like Fed HST & the gold Dots best..😊
Love the 357.
When you are shooting an unarmed person while preforming a "wellness check" does it really matter?
jatpack3 gtfo
@@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii8818 Atatiana Jefferson didnt care what caliber she was murdered with when fort worth PD shot her through her own window while checking to see if she was ok. She was until the local police gang showed up.
@@jatpack3 I guess you'd have to be on the spot to really know the truth.
@@looseunit1615 oh yeah?
@@jatpack3 Yeah.
Thank you for your Service.
You are totally Correct.
Great video.
I'm a 40 guy all the way.
I shoot a Glock .40 and a .45. Loaded with Winchester PDX1 BHP in 180 gr for the .40 and 230 gr for the .45. Awesome stopping power at it's finest.
Another good video. At my agency we can carry any pistol we want as long as it's a Sig 226 9mm. They do issue us 124g +P Gold Dots and we train with the 124g Speer lawman so they should shoot about the same.
+Chris Jones That is an awesome overall combo! Your agency must really have it together. I'd rather buy my own pistol, but if I had to pick an issue gun/ammo combo that would be far from the bottom of my list.
We could do worse but I'm not that impressed with the 226. People usually don't believe me but they just aren't very reliable. We've had quite a few light strike problems. I'd carry my G17 in a heartbeat if given the choice.
That's weird, how old is it?
It only 2 or 3 years old. I haven't had a problem with mine but I've seen it happen several times. One of them was our Sig trained armorer's pistol. Another happened after the officer fell and it landed in some mud. They test fired it and it only got the first round off. It had to be completely broken down and cleaned to get it working. They originally thought it was due to us having the DAK trigger so they replaced them all with the double/single and we've had issues with those too.
They aren't magic. If you drop any gun in the mud it has to be completely stripped and cleaned.
The department I work for uses Glock 22’s. I like the .40 S&W round. Our department uses Federal HST rounds. Personally, when off duty, I use Hornady Critical Duty rounds and carry a 9mm.
It's more powerful than the 9mm and the magazine still holds lots of rounds. That's why.
The answer to the title's question is 4 words:
1986 Miami-Dade FBI shootout.
Inb4 Miami-Dade is two words
Nice video, I'm an old car guy, and in my hot rodding days they always say there is no replacement for displacement, and as far as I'm concerned it still holds true today, even in ammunition.
great video. here in communist state of California we are stuck with same capacity for 9, 40, and 45 so might as well go with 45 but I like my 9mm.
just like the communist state of NJ i live in: stuck with 10 round magazines.
357 Sig 125gr JHP will light them up.
I left that state 20 years ago...thank God. Beautiful state, toxic politics.
I always wondered about this, my uncle was a cop and I never heard of .40 caliber until then, great video
I just tested Hornady XTP bullets using gallon water jugs. The first shot with 180 grain .40 S&W went through 5 jugs before exiting out the side. The second shot shed the jacket into the second jug and the lead core was in the 4th jug. The 124 grain 9 mm was in the 3rd jug with a perfect petal formation. Guns were a Glock 23 and Springfield XD9 subcompact.
I was an MP for years and only shot 124 gr FMJ and was relatively impressed with its power. However the first time I got to shoot 40 S&W and see a the difference in power I was hooked. I have shot everything from 9mm to 5.7x28 and I continue to go back to 40 because I can shoot better with it. For me that is what is most important can you shoot it well and get reliable hits on target?
95B\31B
🤝🏻
I EDC a G35 it gives me 16rds of .40 caliber in the same size package as a 8-9rd 1911 in a lighter gun.
The Federal Tactical Bonded 165gr gives me out of the G35 five inch barrel 1,180fps which is 10mm performance in a lighter recoiling gun.
The 165gr mimics 10mm and a 180gr is just as good as, 45acp out of a five inch barrel.
The .40 has an energy advantage of both 9mm/45acp its case is even thicker.
.40 does better against barriers such as bone. It will break it or go straight through.
So, why no love for the .40? I feel it needs its own platform and it should be a full size gun.
Theron D. Patron
+Theron Patron I use a very similar setup for work.
Nice.
Theron Patron I am also a proponent of 40 s&w, but the only 10mm that you can ever compare it to is a terribly watered down round. Which makes sense, as that is exactly what it is... Just a short case 10mm.
1180fps is a really neutered 10mm.. there is a reason the case is shorter.. real 10mm would break any .40 cal gun..
True, but even as a neutered 10mm, it is more potent than standard pressure 45 ACP.
I'd say in 2019, the most common LE duty rounds are Hornady Critical Duty, Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, Ranger T-T series. I use Critical Duty or HST 😉. For training I prefer the Inceptor RNP non lead loads or the Federal Syntech rounds. I also say the 124gr +P 9mm works best. The US Army went to a 147gr JHP for the new M17 SIG pistol. In .45acp guns, I like 230gr +P in HST or Ranger T.
Just remember, with the advanced bullets for 9mm, that also applies to .40 s&w! Which still..puts .40 ahead of 9mm. Put it like this, if a 9mm with today's ammo is just as good as a .40, then a .40 with today's ammo is just as good as 10mm(which as I said still leaves 9mm in the dust). I think the whole thing is just pointless. A bigger, more powerful round is a bigger more powerful round, regardless of how advanced the ammo is. A better way to word it is, today's 9mm is as good as .40 s&w was 20 years ago. LOL. When you bring in advanced ammo to .40 there's nothing in 9mm that can compare. Not even +p+ 9mm will compare to today's .40 and .45.
losi8ightyew underwoods speer gold dots 115 grain in 9mm is above most .40s&w defensive ammo if not all. 1400fps with an output of 500ftlbs. All in a little glock 19! Lol. That's just one round. My main edc is the 23 though.
Truth Sharp 9mm can't compare to 40s&w, not even +p or +p+, but since you mentioned Underwood here are some 40's. 135 grain 675 ft-lbs at 1500 ft-sec, or 155 grain 582 ft-lbs at 1300 ft-sec, here is a link so you can compare your self ( ballistics101.com ). 9mm is a good round, and it's easy to handle, plus it's cheap. But it's maxed at 500 ft-lbs. If you could only have one round 9 mm or 40 s&w which would you pick, shot placement is true for all rounds. Google handgun one shot stop statistics ( An Alternative look at Handgun Stopping Power - One shot stops ) or google one shot stop
40 Venom I don't dislike the .40 caliber at all. Like I said. I carry one everyday. It's Just I could switch it up some days with my glock 19 and not compromise stopping power from my glock 23(.40). At the same time gaining capacity. I like just about all calibers so shot placement has to be key! Lol
.40 is on par with 10mm? Lmao, pass me what you're drinking, chief. I need some of it.
You're basically saying that a Suburban is deadlier than a Tahoe. .40 is not ahead of 9mm, nor is .45 ahead of .40. Stop worrying about caliber debates and just carry a fucking pistol. No one cares which you prefer.
losi8ightyew .40 s&w has only been in existence for since 1990. Thats not 20 years
40 cal is a superior round. More stopping power
👍💪 that's a fact !!!!
@william terry You're being obnoxious. The man is entitled to his opinion, no more and no less than yours.
It does have more power but not enough to matter.
Certainly has more energy...simple physics.
The only people who think that stopping power isn't a real thing, have never done much hunting with a hand gun.
.45acp Black talon was my favorite for years. Never was a 9mm fan. 40 always seemed to be a tweener. After they quit making Black Talons I used .45acp 230 grain bonded hollow points. We always used less expensive stuff on the range due to volume, but qualified with what we carried.
They didn't quit making the Black Talon, they just quit making it black and renamed it to the Ranger T-Series.
Great strides in ammunition performance and especially good news for the 9mm. Also good news for other calibers as same technology is applied. So, 9mm is now good enough and .40 and .45 are even better.
That’s exactly right, everyone says “thanks to new tech the 9mm is just as good as .40”. Well sure maybe, but not when you apply that same tech to the other rounds
@@mattsepanski9975 new tech 9mm may be just as good as .40 but new tech .40 is better than new tech 9mm. FBI had to justify 9mm as new recruits could not handle .40, so FBI says pathologists could not tell what size round made a wound. Duh! Can hunters look at dead deer's wound and say what caliber did the deed? Of course not but hunters know that bigger holes are more effective than smaller holes when same technology is involved. 9mm fits the narrative.
EDC is a Glock 23 gen2 by the way... or a G27 gen3 when it's really hot out there.
Well in agreement with you. I’m not an officer but my range partner is an ex Atlanta officer and he was on duty when they shifted from 9 to the 10 to 40 and then back again to the 9 plus P.
He now shoots a G 19 and his reason is availability or soon to be lack of in shorty 40. I have yet to see this lack of or dry spell of the 40.
In my opinion the 40 is here to stay. I learned on the 40 it was my first Glock the 23 and it’s understandably my favorite round. Not only because I have learned to deal with the recoil ( not really diff. Than anything else) and when I went out and bought a Glock 19. I found myself missing a lot. My buddy has his own private outdoor range. ( lucky bastard ) and when we went out to do some shooting I was undershooting my 2 inches at 25 yards. I had a lot of issues trying to get used to it but recoil was very similar so I feel that the change was a waste.
I reload a lot al,most all of our range ammo is my making and I tried a lot of different bullet weights. I found that shooting 135 grainers felt very similar to shooting a 9.
I liked it but after a while I pinned for that kick because I shot so much 180 that it just didn’t feel the same. So long and short is that I feel that after enough practice you can learn to tame the 40 and in my opinion has the best of a lot of the best world argue,ent. I’m sure most of us will not be in a life or death gunfight but why not at least be prepared. Thanks for your video. It was educational.
My local police force transitioned BACK to 9mm from .40 and sold them all. I think, not sure, they cited capacity and recoil accuracy.
They do it to save on budget while leaving the officers the choice. This often basically means the officer buys their own training and duty ammo, plus their own duty pistol or uses whatever the department issues.
Let's look at some history for once, back in 1911 the War Department was thinking of changing the handgun used by the Army and Marines, which was the 38 Long Colt Cartridge so they asked for samples and so since John Browning was also trying to sale his new 1911 he entered his handgun in the new Colt cartridge the 45ACP, but someone in the War Department wanted to look at the New sidearm the Germans were using so they asked for some P-08's and they received the new 9mm luger ammunition. You do know why the War Department choice was with the 45ACP, rather than the 9mm luger, its because the 45ACP would kill a horse, where the 9mm would not.
My Glock 21 sleeps beside my bed, I carry Glock 23 daily.
George, holt!
1911 9mm is quite different then today's...I was quite avidly against a 9mm, thinking it was a woman's cartridge, but I changed my mind, now I think that pistol calibre is just not powerful enough for it to be given such a emphasis...in mg opinion we should carry something within limit (nothing under 9mm, nor over 357) but with a good round capacity, so nothing under 7 rounds.
Anyway, it's all about the shotgun when it comes to big pressure. To me the rifle is an overkill on an urban environment.
@@comanchedase Your point is well taken, but lets look at history, The reason the 9mm is the chosen cartridge of the FBI has more to do with the facts that agency has the requirment that its agents must qualify every 3-4 months with duty ammo. When the agency had that famous shootout in Florida some years ago they were armed with the 9mm and the Model 19 revolver in 357.
So the bad guys had the 10mm and shot those FBI through the cars they were hiding behind. So the agency switched to the 10mm. Then too many agents were out on workers comp illness claims of wrists bones being broken. So S&W invented the 40 caliber, which is on paper similar to the 45 ACP.
If the 9mm is superior then why does a officer of the law have to empty his gun into a suspect every time he has to use it on a criminal?
The Army proved it in 1911, that a single shot of 45ACP was enough to kill a horse, while the 9mm would not.
WTH?????
@@jst601 The 1911 was the Zenith of technology while soldiers were still on horseback
Interesting analysis. Given that the .40S&W is a ballistic dead ringer for the 150 year old .38-40 Colt model P it makes sense that it would work well without fancy high tech ammo.
Here in Georgia many local agencies as well as several our our state agencies have made the transition from the .40/.45GAP to the 9MM. With that I know some have also changed their ammo to more modern loads such as ; the hornady critical duty, Speer gold dots, Winchester ranger t-series and PDX-1 and most of them in the bonded form. I personally favor the 9MM, to me it obvious that with modern ammo the 9MM meets and sometimes exceeds then capability of the .40. Then again as you stated some agencies are sticking with the archaic loads such as hydra shocks and standard Winchester hollow points that cannot meet the standards for stoping threats but instead provide the departments with a cheaper yet worse performing option.
+Michael Simpkins When you cross tech levels some of the 9mm loads do in fact exceed .40 and .45 ACP of yesteryear. Especially if you take into account that legacy ammo has very poor consistently in what you could expect the ammo to do down range.
Picked up a good 23 and a 27 from AO in smyrna that where cop trade ins. both shoot great. Little bit of holsterwear. Went another 5-10 miles to the smyrna factory for a free refurb. No complaints
Michael Simpkins 3
Michael Simpkins
+KnivesNGunsBoy good your stupid
Police Departments have been switching back to 9mm since at least 2010, Including the FBI. My own agency switched back to 9mm in 2011.
its a trick for people to stop using the better more powerful .40 caliber.
According to the FBI firearms division, the 40 has no ballistic advantage over the 9mm. The 40 also causes unnecessary excessive wear on a handgun, requiring more maintenance. I had to carry one for twelve years. So glad LE has gone back to the 9mm.
@@kurtp5379 you are wrong. Don't be so naive. Stop believing the lies from the FBI. The .40 caliber pistols are designed and created for the .40 caliber round.
The 10mm caliber pistols are also designed and created for the 10mm round. This is a fact.
The heavier .40 caliber bullet hits harder, causes more damage and kills faster.
The 9mm round has only good hitting power and maximum speed when loaded to +P velocities and fired out of a 10" inch barrel. Please research these facts.
UNITED STATES I. R. I. E.
Investigation Research International Educator
US 5977293425
The real "X-Files"
AGENT Sinne'
😅
@@kurtp5379 "40 has no ballistic advantage over the 9mm" Say that again? cdn.athlonoutdoors.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2017/03/9_40_45One_04-1.jpg
I reload my ammo. So I can use .40 cal rounds at 155, 165 or 180 grains of lead also I can load the powder to get the desired velocity I want to achieve. Lastly a well placed shot is the key no matter what the load is.
40 S&W has become popular with law enforcement in Canada, Australia and other countries.
My depart issues 124 Speer Gold Dot 9mm. Most agencies in NC go with Speer GD or Federal HST
+Elliott Coker 124 great gold Dot works quite well.
free field training I use 147 Speer GD for my off duty carry G43.
147 performs better in short barreled semi autos
+Elliott Coker I've never heard of 147's working better in short barrels. Or any guns really.
free field training With the shorter barrel 147 gives the extra push needed wth a short barrel. I've seen testing of 124 threw denim & ballistic gel never even start to open up. Your loosing a lot with a short barrel like on a G43 and Shield.
+Elliott Coker I just haven't seen it.
I retired in 2000 and back then we had gone from .38 revolvers to Sig Sauer P226, which was the only gun they bought for us. They were factory ordered with inability to be fired single-action.
I have recently heard that the department have gone on to Glock 40mm. I was going to visit our Firearms Unit at the range to ask why but looks like you saved me a trip. Thanks for these videos.
Wow!! That is one BIG bullet!! 1.57 caliber.
My friend is a Detroit police officer, special operations, they issue S&W M&P 40 Cal, That has to give the 40 some serious street cred!!!!
My department used 40 S&W Winchester white box 180 grain JHP, it worked great. I won’t go into detail but it works. 9 mm fan boys underestimate the 40 S&W calling it slow in worthless. 9mm in fact is weak when it comes to Barrier penetration.
40 is life
Most likely that is a bonded round. Bet the case is not nickel plated. Picked up a few cases cheap a few years ago when there was a huge overrun on a DEA contract.....
My old border patrol buddies carried .40 with Winchester ranger jhp bonded. And I think the old golden Sabre is bonded. I got my hands on both seem like great rounds. What do you think about the sig vcrown.
The Power of The .45 + The Accuracy of The 9MM = .40 Caliber #SimpleAsThat
Rico Mack well said! I’ve shot 9mm .40 and.45. My .40 is very accurate my .45 same brand not as accurate.
Rico Mack so would you say for overall protection, home protection etc. that a 40 is gonna have a lot more stopping or knock down power than a 9mm, as in making a big enough difference that it's a much better choice for personal protection? Also what do you think about hollow points? Does that make a huge difference in stopping power and if so, what about accuracy, does that affect it?
@@christopherwalker6056 Go with a .45acp 230gr. FMJ. If that doesn't stop them (and it will) nothing can.
All day baby !!!! 💪👍
Well said 💪👍.
Some of these comments are giving me a head ache lol.
Most comments about most videos of most topics give most of us headaches. Don't read too many. Experience more things on your own.
He not a trained voice over man.
As a retired federal law enforcement officer I carry my glock19 during the summer and spring useing 124 grain hollowpoints. Basically Hydra-Shok ammo, it preformed well for me. And I'm still useing as defensive ammo to this day. And for our issued mp5s 124 grain plus p plus. And now I use the same in my ar9 carbine as my primary home defensive weapon. And during winter months I carry my glock23, and I was using 125 grain hydro shocks hollowpoints. But I've changed over to 135 grain hollowpoints for deeper penetration in heavier winter clothing. As far as recoil it's basically a training issue and useing a proper technique to control the recoil impulse. And basically if I've got time and advanced warning I'm going to my ar9 or my ar15 carbines to deal with any armed situations. Under the stress of a gun fight the three points of contact and the longer sight radius of a 9mm ar9 pistol or carbine will be more accurate. And there's no doubt of the damage a 12guage shotgun can cause. And depending on the situation and circumstances, you might find yourself in. Weapons selection is critical. And one lesson learned from the Miami shootout that was learned was bring enough gun for the situation you are going to encounter.
.40 cal....enough said ,hands down .40 cal..great video, God bless..
yea if they're picking my ammo for me, I gotta go with .40
It's all about shot placement. What good is a 45 if you can't hit anything with it? Now I like the 45 round I like the 40 as well. But I carry a 9mm S&W SD9. It's a 16+1 with Federal HST Hollow Points. Very accurate, great follow up shots very controllable.
I dig the Lucky Gunner links. They're the only gun blog that I feel really does their homework and gives reliable advice. Also I'm waiting for the obligatory comment from the 10mm fanatics.
+Alex hey! I resemble that remark!
How's 40 Short & Weak? I just got my first 10mm so I can join the club, lol.
Alex obligatory 10mm fanatic. It's my hiking gun.
Paul Harrell is another person that gives good advice.
10mm or 11mm wharever it takes!
I like the 40. I carry a 40 with hat ammo. I also have a 45 para commander that I carry occasionally. I use 230 gr hydra Shock in that. Buy I really favor the 40. I am going to be getting an HK VP40 and getting rid of the XD.
Always a good day when a XD goes away
I carry an HK USP .40, with the jet funnel magwell and 16 round magazines. I love the gun, and I love the way the .40 handles and shoots in the pistol.
Always a good day when a peckerhead goes away, too
I did alot of research before I got my 40 I picked right. I like it it's not for everyone. But I kinda like the medium power pistol for auto. Anything bigger too heavy for me. Good job s & w.
I like my G-23; good for concealed carry and practice at the range.
Start with a 9 until all your bullets are gone, pull out your 40 then if this doesn't work pull out your 45. If this don't work RUN!!!
😂😂😂
.40 has more energy than .45
@@nminskey this is true👍
@@nminskey and with the right ammo it's faster than the 9mm , this is why Yeager and the rest of the , 9 guys out there are upset because the . 40 is a BAD ASS M"*#^¥°F#*" "^°ER hands down 💪👍.
@@campingman1942 10mm is still the best ;)
Underwood 40 caliber 180 grain 1100fps with 484 foot pounds of force
most of the ammo we get at the gun stores seem to be watered down versions of what otherwise could be a good caliber to use the only difference in the 9mm,,40 and 45 is one puts a bigger hole than the other outside of that there is no real advantage unless you spend a little more money for Underwood or Buffalo Bore ammo and then the .45acp really shines at 980-1025fps most store ammo cant compare
+walter w Remington golden Sabre 45 does.
free field training i will look for for the Rem-Golden sabres next trip to the store-thx
+walter w if you are going to, make sure to take a look at the bonded version in 185gr.
walter w doubletap 200gr cast lead nosler hp hands down the best .40 equal to .357 stub nose in ft lbs energy.
You obviously never heard of liberty civil defense 😂😂😂
I used .40 S&W because that's what my department issued.
Excellent argumentation on .40 cal rationale. As a public school teacher I fully understand about government funding/inexpensiveness driving policy. Appears that cops should be going to range monthly firing 140+ grain so they are used to the recoil. I am interested in buying the Sig 226 in 9 mm or .40 with the M1911 Milspec 45 ACP Springfield.
James Yeager where you at braaah? .40 all day braah!
He's in his closet stroking his .40 S&W , the one he has .9mm written on it with a black sharpy so no one will know what it is .😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@william terry 😂😂😂