They said they're going to release a master plan on how to craft your own CRT from scratch using modern techniques. It's a bit of a process, so the wait will be worth it.
[ Coury ] I'm not sure when it'll happen. I highly recommend the YT channel Retro Tech for tons of CRT and PVM videos that cover the subject pretty thoroughly.
FYI - ua-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html For example, ua-cam.com/video/xAbqucrWHjU/v-deo.html I'm personnaly not sure I want to mess THAT much with my CRT TV 😅
This is really great! I used it through my super everdrive to help fix some geometry issues with one of my trinitrons. For those who don't know there is a secret service menu you can access on Sony Trinitrons. Have the TV turned off then QUICKLY press "Display" - "5" - "Volume +" then power on.
Another great video guys. Btw Linearity test is also very useful on HDTVs and scalers. You can use it to check that the circles are perfectly round (use a tape measure if necessary). Quite often HDTVs squash the Dreamcasts picture in particular and adding a bit of horizontal zoom is necessary for the perfect picture.
IMO, the Drop Shadow test is the most important tool for identifying how well your TV/scaler handles 240p-specific effects, so kudos for demonstrating how it's supposed to look on one setup and how it fails on another.
Riverhill [Coury] We'll go deeper into it in the CRT, PVM, etc. episode. Like I said to someone else below: The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people. If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs. Its worth noting though, as the size of the CRT gets bigger, it gets more and more difficult to get it right. Sometimes impossible. My 27 inch Toshiba flat CRT is what I showed to demonstrate it in this video and thats after tons of tweaking. Its one of those things that once you notice it, you'll always notice it, even if its minor. Hard to believe that this issue has always been there, but its been practically invisible to our eyes until we spent a bunch of time on a HDTV. Going back you're like "wait, has it always been like this?" Answer: yes.
***** Started to note the difference after getting a 27 inch Sony flat, especially on scrolling backgrounds. It is definitely something that's hard not to pay attention to once you notice it. Guess I'm in for a day of meticulous tweaking once I find the service menu option from a service manual. Thanks for the tips!
Riverhill Just a heads up, you can dramatically improve your CRT's geometry through the service menu HOWEVER it is very very annoying to fix. I am in the process of doing it right now and almost ready to give up. You fix one thing, then you mess up another. I guess it just comes with the nature of those types of screens.
It wasn't mentioned in the video, but there is also a PS1 version that can be burned to a CD, but you have to use the "swap trick" to make it work on an unmodified console. Since the PS1 is my only option, I've tested and it does work just fine!
Hi guys. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of your videos, and I use them extensively to get the most authentic, highest quality experience from my retro setup. Can't wait for your video discussing CRT geometry, as that's what I'm currently struggling with. Cheers!
I've heard of this 240p Test Suite before, it seems to really come in handy to help you configure your display... And you've used music from Super Turrican in the background! Amazing! I LOVE Super Turrican's OST!
Ruko Michiharu Isn't it Sparkster? It was bothering me and I had to try to figure it out. Super Turrican? No. Rocket Knight? No. Popful Mail? No. Sparkster? Yup. Genesis version... I think.
I have always been so happy there is a Wii version, just because the Wii is my goto console for testing a TV at a store or Craigslist. - Its small and light, making it easy to move around, no discs or moving parts to worry about breaking, and has cables for all types of connections ( S-video cables are uncommon, but easy to find online and useful to have if you wanna test out older screens like a Commodore 1702 with an S-Video to Dual RCA adapter )
This video was perfect timing (for me), picked up a PS1 from thrift (had Assault Retribution in drive and later found it it was already modded!). Works perfect for this and in it for < $20; Thanks guys!
Many peolpe doen't know but in Mexico Artemio Urbina is the most respected person and the maximun VG authority there is podcast or youtube videos were you can fou d more about him.
My Life in Gaming - are you guys still planning on doing an episode for adjusting the screen geometry for consumer crts? I can't wait if so! Many of us need some guidance as to how to go about doing this correctly. Thanks love the channel :)
In the sound test, i've noticed that there is a option: center, left and right channels...you guys should do a video about "sound" on consoles, after finished the video settings! (there is surround on retro consoles? best ways to connect audio on each console, console hardware revisions, crts speakers, pvms, best home theaters and receivers, splitters and switchers interfere?[audio lag], etc). Love you guys!
[Coury] that is something we'll look into. Neither of us are huge audiophiles but I think there are a variety of subjects to get into with it. I'd love to do a video on the Master System FM mod sometime.
Another awesome video, you two. You never cease to enrich me! I tried getting the Wii version of the suite but unfortunately it doesn't work, all I get is a nasty black screen. Maybe it's the recent version of it, who knows? I guess I will have to wait until I get a CD BURNER (Since mine doesn't work) or an everdrive.
Oh wow, didn't expect you to comment :). Well, I downloaded the zip from the website, copies the stuff from it to the apps folder, went to my homebrew channel and then black screen. I wanted to make sure it wasn't the framemeister's resolution change that is doing it but nope, it went to black regardless if I use it or not.
You are following the correct steps, placing the 240psuite folder inside the apps folder. I'm guessing you get the application icon and meta data? It should work alright, thought it was *might* be a write protect issue in the sd card. Do you end up with an xml file in a folder named 240p suite in the root folder of the sd card? I'm sure I worked on a fail safe for it, but I might have failed to predict your situation.
Sorry, I find make myself clear. I wondered if the wii showed the data on screen before loading. The issue might be using an usb drive, I never expected ir to be ran that way. I'm away right now, but can check it out next week. Thanks for letting me know. Please try running it from the sd card for now.
4:09 Funny thing is the JVC I'Art AV32 at my grandma's house has over 640 pixels wide in space and displays the whole image, and a lot of CRTs display many of the red squares on the left and right.
I had to look up the game you were referring to, but I think it's just the Genesis version of the composition. The situation of Sparkster on Genesis and the game on SNES being unrelated games that happen to share the same soundtrack is interesting, to say the least.
Another Great and accurate video. I have used this test software several times. Long ago only the Genesis version was available . I had no idea it was available for TB16 and CD based consoles. Will check those out soon.
Great stuff guys - excellent and informative video as always and I'm going to go and burn a copy of this for all my systems and get checking!! I use a CRT for my megadrive,snes,duo and jamma and a Philips HD for everything else so i'll be interested to see the results....
Mitsubishi CS-40809. It was so well calibrated in the factory, no real adjustments were needed when I used this suite. Perfect geometry corner to corner, grid, etc.. Literally the only adjustment needed was horizontal position, it was at 20, i put it to 17... that's it. The two blue arrows on the Wii menu should touch the edges of the screen, one was cut off ever so slightly, that fixed it. Colors are perfect, linearity is fine, the grid squares all measure up. You can tell they went the extra mile in calibration when they released these monsters. They had to, for a (priced then) $3500 TV. Now if only I could figure out why there's no sound on one of the speakers.. Couldn't say for sure if both speakers worked when I first found this set, I had only played the NES on it for a long time before moving. On arrival, I decided to dust it out (webs, hair, etc), closed up the chassis and went for SNES and other consoles. Found out only 1 speaker worked. Either a wire is the issue (red and white one inside) or something else.. I hate discharging CRTs this big, I'd hate to have to test/replace an actual speaker and hope it's only the wire.
Dang that is pretty sweet. So it is a CRT that cost $3,500 back in the day? I only have a few small CRT's but also a big 32 inch Sony Trinitron that cost about $800 brand new back in 2006, it still looks very good and both speakers work well (though the treble and bass can't do any higher than I want), but with only a little bit of convergence and some slight geometry issues on the far left edge, for a TV I picked up on the curb this past summer (weighing 160 pounds) it is sweet. Someone had it in their garage for a very long time and I almost didn't take it as it sat outside (no rain for a week luckily) for several days before I managed to get help from a co-worker to load it into my car.. where it sat in the trunk for 1-2 months until I could get help hauling it downstairs
I really love your work but I can't seem to find that video you talked about (the one about the crt geometry fix).. Are you planning to release it any time soon or is it a canceled project?
David C I think the problem is that it’s not something that can be done safely. You could adjust a couple of things in a secret service menu but to get to the real issues you’d probably have to adjust the yoke of the tv and that can be extremely dangerous because it carries enough voltage to kill you. Not to mention a plethora of other things that could have gone wrong over a long period of time that the tv was just sitting there or moved around or dropped. To put it simply there’s probably no safe fixing the geometry of a crt :( I imagine that’s why they don’t release a video because they don’t wanna be held responsible for someone potentially dying because they told them what they could do to get a better picture for an old tech that only knowledgeable technicians could do. Which there don’t seem to be any. A shame really :(
this is great. I'm honestly more concerned about lag than pristine video quality, but only have inexpensive 720p TVs in the house. never noticed lag, so I could use a program like this to double-check before getting a scaler. I'm keeping an eye on HD Retrovision for more YPbPr cables.
Bro, what is that song at 8:20? Its baller you guys list your theme song but not the other awesome music in this video :( Makes me sad when it isn't in the description. I know this was 8 years ago but pleeease
Now do a video on optimizing my Sony Trinitron 32 inch RetroTV with the 240p Test Suite. Also need that episode for the adjusting of geometry for my CRT.
I have an 80" Sharp LC-80LE642 HDTV, and I'm definitely in the camp where the composite/component inputs have significantly less input lag than my HDMI inputs. Utilizing the manual lag option within the test suite, I was getting around a 30-40ms delay on the analog connections whereas it jumped up to 100+ ms on HDMI. Very strange, as you would think a digital connection would reduce lag as there's no analog-to-digital conversion and/or upscaling. At any rate, my classic consoles are all hooked up via S-Video to a CRT Sony Wega KV-32FS100. There's no input lag there and the picture looks great, except for some moderate horizontal linearity issues. Unfortunately, my model doesn't appear to have an "HLIN" setting (or something similar) in the service menu, so I may not be able to fix this outside of getting another TV.
Has the CRT Geometry Episode happened yet? I just scored a nice Sony Trinitron Wega that could use some touching up with the geometry and would like to know how to do it safely.
@@ArtemioUrbina NOOOOO, my 15 minutes of confidence have been crushed by the man!!! LOL Thanks for all your hard work with programs you give us AU! I don't really follow any forums so I'm in the dark, but is there any chance of a Sega Saturn suite ISO down the road?
[Try4ce] We actually shot a ton of material for this just a few weeks ago with Steve from Retro Tech! ua-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html I can't say for sure when the episode will materialize, but it's closer than it's ever been!
[Try4ce] Not yet, we promised this far too long ago. But early this year we actually had the chance to shoot Steve from the channel Retro Tech working on some CRTs, and that will become the geometry episode sometime!
I can't wait for the future episode on CRT geometry settings. My sony trinitron I use for 240p gaming is a little off. I am currently playing through FF3 (aka ff6) on my snes and the character walk speed makes it extremely noticeable lol. I still consider it better than the HDTV's I own since they handle 240p terribly. You pretty much nailed it with the numbered framing test...I'm getting a large amount of dropped frames lol. Maybe I should invest in the framemeister.
[Try4ce] Maybe I should try fixing my HD Trinitron geometry as part of that episode. I don't use it much anymore, but yeah, 2D games, especially platformers I think, make a ribbon wave as the screen scrolls... I sorta retrained my eye to ignore it when it was my main TV.
+My Life in Gaming That would be incredibly helpful! I am currently in the service menu adjusting some settings, but the definitions of what each setting is doing is a little hard to understand. I'm also debating trying to use a voltage regulating power strip. As a musician I know tubes are greatly affected by the input voltage. You'd be surprised at what a difference 118 vs 125 makes in a guitar amp. I'm willing to bet it affects CRT displays too.
[Try4ce] Not yet, but it's a high priority. We're trying to work with professional CRT techs on the episode, but making that happen has taken some time. We definitely don't want to put out bad information on the subject!
[Try4ce] We did a whole episode about CRTs, focusing fairly heavily on PVMs and BVMs. :) ua-cam.com/video/RAi8AVj9GV8/v-deo.html&lc=z13ijxvovumeggxskkicvj5bspvvi1as1 While we don't own BVMs ourselves (only PVMs), we recommend checking out Phonedork's channel, where he looks at a variety of professional monitors.
I gave up on scart a while ago, I got a CRT and s video for my n64 and gamecube. The CRT I found was barely used, I just had to adjust the yoke since the image was tilted, and I had to figure out how to get into the service mode since the overscan cut off much of the screen
You should be careful when using CD-Rs in the Dreamcast. The laser assembly in the console is meant to read GD-ROMs (Gigabyte Disc, a format developed specifically for the Dreamcast as an alternative to DVDs). The laser breaks down when trying to read burned CDs, and your console will eventually be unable to read any discs. I am by no means an expert on the Dreamcast laser assembly, but I would believe that there's a difference between using a CD-R as a boot disc (where it reads it for a couple rotations and then you put a GD-R in) and using a CD-R to run a game or program. The application of using 240p Test Suite sounds like it would read the disc a lot, so if you're planning on making the Dreamcast your platform of choice to run the 240p Test Suite on, I would be careful how often you use it.
From what I understand since its a program made for the mil cd format it would probably be fine. Those issues mainly are from gd rom games being compressed to mil cd and stressing the laser more since the games where never intended to be played though a cd let alone being compressed that much to fit on a cd.
The framemeister creates a noisy color signal on dark blue patterns. Emulator image is superior and 100% clean. It's got tons of other neat features from filters to quicksave. On my 1ms monitor I barely notice any lag at all. Literally the only thing that's better with the framemeister is 100% smooth scrolling which is neat but not neccessary and the SNES accuracy emulator is pretty damn well optimized now. I own the framemeister and I have a few consoles that I modded myself so I know what I'm talking about. If you own a 1ms monitor and have a fast processor - go with emulation all the way. I just like to own these consoles to have an option. Retroarch rules. It's just funny to read how anal people get about the framemeister when nothing you do can compare to a clean emulator image anyways. This is a fact! BUT...I also enjoy the smooth image scrolling that my original consoles gives me. It's nice to have options.
First, I agree with all of this. Second, I have a 720p native sony lcd tv and there's definately lag. It's not much and I haven't tested it but with all filters and functions off and game mode on there's still a few frames of lag. I play on my 1ms pc monitor though so ...I keep the tv for my wii-u.
I got out my old crt and was surprised to see it had component video but the horizontal linearity is terrible. Idk how to fix it but it's very distracting and that's sad considering how great component looks on my tv
I should really do one of these tests. Wonder how many adjustments I'll make before I come to the conclusion that the way I calibrated my TV already was stupid and I'm stupid as a result.
Wait, 720x240? Isn't that twice the resolution of the retro consoles? What does that mean for digital processing on 240p compatible scalers? Is that a bad thing?
+Max Caulfield [Try4ce] 240 is the vertical resolution. The 720 thing is a bit harder to explain, but basically the horizontal resolution is scaleable. 720 is multiplied by 0.9 to shrink to a 4:3 aspect... or multiplied by 1.2 to fill a 16:9 aspect. Modern video uses square pixels, but back in the day, it was all about horizontal stretching to give the proper proportion. 720 without stretching would never result in a correct aspect ratio by itself. It is always intended to be squished or stretched by the display (which scalers would also do). Even though the internal resolution of the system may be something like 320x240, the output conforms to a standard that's 720 wide (but still only 240 tall). This isn't my strongest subject, but hopefully that explains it well enough!
[Try4ce] It's something we've put off because we decided we wanted to work with a repair tech on that. We might have an opportunity to do so next year though, so this might finally happen. People have been clamoring for it for years, so we really regret the wait.
I was just making sure I didn’t miss a video or a part of a video on this subject. No rush guys! This is my Go to in terms of retro gaming . You guys are simply amazing!
Great video, I am trying to fix the geometry on my flat CRT for my Genesis but I am having trouble. I have the 240p test suite as well and tried to fix the geometry on the TV in its service mode. If you could make a video on the subject it would be greatly appreciated.Thank you
+Act Zaku (MS-11) [Try4ce] We actually are going to do a whole episode all about gaming on CRTs in the future, and geometry correction will definitely be part of it!
Unfortunately, I don't even need this to notice some of the issues my CRT has. I got it at a Goodwill because it was a tube tv (curved screen) for light gun games, and because it has an s-video input. It has two issues, and that's a bit of color bleeding, mostly in the color red, and asymmetry, most easily seen when using the GBA Player on the Gamecube. I eagerly await your video on how to help that, since I don't see anything in that tv's menu to fix it.
ShogunGin0 [Coury] We'll eventually get into that when we cover CRTs and PVMs, etc. The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people. If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs.
480i, 480p and 576p are available in the consoles that support them on their respective 240p Test Suites. Regarding 720p and 1080p they are less useful, since video calibration discs are enough. But if the suite is ever ported to a console with HD support, they'd obviously be there.. but those consoles don't support proper 240p in general.
+my life in gaming My BVM 2010p is waiting for your care,.. makes me unhappy display distorted image! Can I fly you over to correct it? or do the episode perhaps.. :P Grt Rudi
[Coury] We'll be doing the Geometry episode sometime this summer. I feel that I need to temper expectations though - every TV/monitor is going to be different. Because the capacitors in each set age differently, theres millions of possibilities. The Geometry settings in a monitor's service menu are to account for the different aspects and bring it back to as close to normal as possible. In many cases, its impossible to make it as good as new.
I sure could use that upcoming episode for adjusting the geometry of my CRT.
2020 and it's still "upcoming" :-(
It's not out yet? That's why I can't find it :(
I went looking for the same thing. 5 years later...
They said they're going to release a master plan on how to craft your own CRT from scratch using modern techniques.
It's a bit of a process, so the wait will be worth it.
@@jorybeatty1726 Holy cow, that sounds like a painstakingly colossal and brilliant undertaking at the same time.
Gosh. Where was My Life in Gaming 16 years ago when I was first teaching myself about this sort of thing?
5:40 It's been four years since this video came out. When do you plan on doing the geometry video?
[ Coury ] I'm not sure when it'll happen. I highly recommend the YT channel Retro Tech for tons of CRT and PVM videos that cover the subject pretty thoroughly.
FYI - ua-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html
For example, ua-cam.com/video/xAbqucrWHjU/v-deo.html
I'm personnaly not sure I want to mess THAT much with my CRT TV 😅
@@mylifeingaming it is now 2024 man. Still holding out here
I want to hug you guys. You are making the world a better place!
Seriously the best retro focused channel on youtube. So greatly appreciated all your hard work and amazing content.
In Artemio we trust.
This is really great! I used it through my super everdrive to help fix some geometry issues with one of my trinitrons. For those who don't know there is a secret service menu you can access on Sony Trinitrons. Have the TV turned off then QUICKLY press "Display" - "5" - "Volume +" then power on.
Do you know how to fix red bleeding using that service menu on the Trinitrons?
I always end up coming back to JunkerHQ. It was one of those sites that let me know when great fan translations would be released
=)
Conratulations to Artemio Urbina...
Another great video guys. Btw Linearity test is also very useful on HDTVs and scalers. You can use it to check that the circles are perfectly round (use a tape measure if necessary). Quite often HDTVs squash the Dreamcasts picture in particular and adding a bit of horizontal zoom is necessary for the perfect picture.
IMO, the Drop Shadow test is the most important tool for identifying how well your TV/scaler handles 240p-specific effects, so kudos for demonstrating how it's supposed to look on one setup and how it fails on another.
Sixfortyfive yes, they were very careful to show real use cases while talking about them. Awesome.
You guys make such great content! Looking forward to that geometry episode, as it's something I got issues with currently.
Riverhill [Coury] We'll go deeper into it in the CRT, PVM, etc. episode. Like I said to someone else below:
The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people.
If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs.
Its worth noting though, as the size of the CRT gets bigger, it gets more and more difficult to get it right. Sometimes impossible. My 27 inch Toshiba flat CRT is what I showed to demonstrate it in this video and thats after tons of tweaking.
Its one of those things that once you notice it, you'll always notice it, even if its minor. Hard to believe that this issue has always been there, but its been practically invisible to our eyes until we spent a bunch of time on a HDTV. Going back you're like "wait, has it always been like this?" Answer: yes.
***** Started to note the difference after getting a 27 inch Sony flat, especially on scrolling backgrounds. It is definitely something that's hard not to pay attention to once you notice it. Guess I'm in for a day of meticulous tweaking once I find the service menu option from a service manual. Thanks for the tips!
Riverhill Just a heads up, you can dramatically improve your CRT's geometry through the service menu HOWEVER it is very very annoying to fix. I am in the process of doing it right now and almost ready to give up. You fix one thing, then you mess up another. I guess it just comes with the nature of those types of screens.
My Life in Gaming Hey Guys ! Any news on the geometry ajustement episode ? I did tried to adjust one on a Sony and no luck couldn't fix it all
It wasn't mentioned in the video, but there is also a PS1 version that can be burned to a CD, but you have to use the "swap trick" to make it work on an unmodified console. Since the PS1 is my only option, I've tested and it does work just fine!
Hi guys. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of your videos, and I use them extensively to get the most authentic, highest quality experience from my retro setup. Can't wait for your video discussing CRT geometry, as that's what I'm currently struggling with. Cheers!
Es una maravilla que esto exista, gracias Artemio.
1:14 What a beautiful man
These guy's theme song never gets old to me.
the background song @ 4:25 made me think of the chorus to cheap trick's surrender
Thanks! Looking forward to that geometry episode!
I've heard of this 240p Test Suite before, it seems to really come in handy to help you configure your display...
And you've used music from Super Turrican in the background! Amazing! I LOVE Super Turrican's OST!
Ruko Michiharu Isn't it Sparkster? It was bothering me and I had to try to figure it out. Super Turrican? No. Rocket Knight? No. Popful Mail? No. Sparkster? Yup. Genesis version... I think.
LaC64 [Coury] I used a Super Turrican track for the grid and scroll test segment and Sparkster for the drop shadow and lag segment.
***** ahhhaaa
I went down the rabbit hole with retro gaming, that's how I got here.
I have always been so happy there is a Wii version, just because the Wii is my goto console for testing a TV at a store or Craigslist.
- Its small and light, making it easy to move around, no discs or moving parts to worry about breaking, and has cables for all types of connections ( S-video cables are uncommon, but easy to find online and useful to have if you wanna test out older screens like a Commodore 1702 with an S-Video to Dual RCA adapter )
Un placer colaborar con ustedes chicos.
Awesome, you guys rock! I had no idea this program even existed!?
This video was perfect timing (for me), picked up a PS1 from thrift (had Assault Retribution in drive and later found it it was already modded!). Works perfect for this and in it for < $20; Thanks guys!
These RGB videos are awesome THANK YOU
Many peolpe doen't know but in Mexico Artemio Urbina is the most respected person and the maximun VG authority there is podcast or youtube videos were you can fou d more about him.
Artemio es nuetro pastor. Nada nos faltara
My Life in Gaming - are you guys still planning on doing an episode for adjusting the screen geometry for consumer crts? I can't wait if so! Many of us need some guidance as to how to go about doing this correctly. Thanks love the channel :)
KEEVS plz answer mlig
In the sound test, i've noticed that there is a option: center, left and right channels...you guys should do a video about "sound" on consoles, after finished the video settings! (there is surround on retro consoles? best ways to connect audio on each console, console hardware revisions, crts speakers, pvms, best home theaters and receivers, splitters and switchers interfere?[audio lag], etc). Love you guys!
[Coury] that is something we'll look into. Neither of us are huge audiophiles but I think there are a variety of subjects to get into with it. I'd love to do a video on the Master System FM mod sometime.
still waiting for the adjusting geometry video
Another awesome video, you two. You never cease to enrich me! I tried getting the Wii version of the suite but unfortunately it doesn't work, all I get is a nasty black screen. Maybe it's the recent version of it, who knows? I guess I will have to wait until I get a CD BURNER (Since mine doesn't work) or an everdrive.
The latest Verdon has been on the site for over a year, so it should work alright.
What is the procedure you are following to install it?
Oh wow, didn't expect you to comment :).
Well, I downloaded the zip from the website, copies the stuff from it to the apps folder, went to my homebrew channel and then black screen. I wanted to make sure it wasn't the framemeister's resolution change that is doing it but nope, it went to black regardless if I use it or not.
You are following the correct steps, placing the 240psuite folder inside the apps folder.
I'm guessing you get the application icon and meta data? It should work alright, thought it was *might* be a write protect issue in the sd card.
Do you end up with an xml file in a folder named 240p suite in the root folder of the sd card?
I'm sure I worked on a fail safe for it, but I might have failed to predict your situation.
I am actually using a USB to load it, but I can try it with the SD card. I did copy the meta too, though
Sorry, I find make myself clear. I wondered if the wii showed the data on screen before loading.
The issue might be using an usb drive, I never expected ir to be ran that way. I'm away right now, but can check it out next week. Thanks for letting me know.
Please try running it from the sd card for now.
Great video! Is the CRT Geometry video still something that will come out in the future or is that no longer planned?
4:09 Funny thing is the JVC I'Art AV32 at my grandma's house has over 640 pixels wide in space and displays the whole image, and a lot of CRTs display many of the red squares on the left and right.
6:00; can I get a link to that incredibly rendition of the Sparkster Lakeside Theme that you are playing in the background? It’s really good!
I had to look up the game you were referring to, but I think it's just the Genesis version of the composition. The situation of Sparkster on Genesis and the game on SNES being unrelated games that happen to share the same soundtrack is interesting, to say the least.
Another Great and accurate video. I have used this test software several times. Long ago only the Genesis version was available . I had no idea it was available for TB16 and CD based consoles. Will check those out soon.
What a well done video. I've seen a few of mlig vids before. but this closed the deal. You are now about to recieve the honor of lubbnetobbs sub.
always a great video!
I finally got a CRT I’m happy with and this test suite was one of the first things I ran on it. It did great, except some geometry I need to fix.
great videos. how do you capture the crt output? a camera aimed at the screen? if so, any special lens?
Great stuff guys - excellent and informative video as always and I'm going to go and burn a copy of this for all my systems and get checking!! I use a CRT for my megadrive,snes,duo and jamma and a Philips HD for everything else so i'll be interested to see the results....
Thank you :) I saw another youtuber demonstrate the Framemeister with this and i wondered what program he used. Now i know ^^,
What "upcoming episode" talks about adjusting TV geometry?
Thank you, this is really helpful! ^_^
Mitsubishi CS-40809. It was so well calibrated in the factory, no real adjustments were needed when I used this suite. Perfect geometry corner to corner, grid, etc.. Literally the only adjustment needed was horizontal position, it was at 20, i put it to 17... that's it. The two blue arrows on the Wii menu should touch the edges of the screen, one was cut off ever so slightly, that fixed it. Colors are perfect, linearity is fine, the grid squares all measure up. You can tell they went the extra mile in calibration when they released these monsters. They had to, for a (priced then) $3500 TV. Now if only I could figure out why there's no sound on one of the speakers.. Couldn't say for sure if both speakers worked when I first found this set, I had only played the NES on it for a long time before moving. On arrival, I decided to dust it out (webs, hair, etc), closed up the chassis and went for SNES and other consoles. Found out only 1 speaker worked. Either a wire is the issue (red and white one inside) or something else.. I hate discharging CRTs this big, I'd hate to have to test/replace an actual speaker and hope it's only the wire.
Dang that is pretty sweet. So it is a CRT that cost $3,500 back in the day? I only have a few small CRT's but also a big 32 inch Sony Trinitron that cost about $800 brand new back in 2006, it still looks very good and both speakers work well (though the treble and bass can't do any higher than I want), but with only a little bit of convergence and some slight geometry issues on the far left edge, for a TV I picked up on the curb this past summer (weighing 160 pounds) it is sweet. Someone had it in their garage for a very long time and I almost didn't take it as it sat outside (no rain for a week luckily) for several days before I managed to get help from a co-worker to load it into my car.. where it sat in the trunk for 1-2 months until I could get help hauling it downstairs
I really love your work but I can't seem to find that video you talked about (the one about the crt geometry fix).. Are you planning to release it any time soon or is it a canceled project?
+Tommaso Galdi [Coury] it hasn't happened yet. We keep pushing it back because we want the involvement of tv repair techs. Still happening
My Life in Gaming Oh, thanks for the immediate reply! I'll be sure to check it out when it's done! :)
7:59-8:30 Hey, what song is that? I really like it.
Super. Thanks
It’s unknown when that episode will come out.
You guys still planning to do that episode on safely adjusting CRT geometry?
David C I think the problem is that it’s not something that can be done safely. You could adjust a couple of things in a secret service menu but to get to the real issues you’d probably have to adjust the yoke of the tv and that can be extremely dangerous because it carries enough voltage to kill you. Not to mention a plethora of other things that could have gone wrong over a long period of time that the tv was just sitting there or moved around or dropped. To put it simply there’s probably no safe fixing the geometry of a crt :( I imagine that’s why they don’t release a video because they don’t wanna be held responsible for someone potentially dying because they told them what they could do to get a better picture for an old tech that only knowledgeable technicians could do. Which there don’t seem to be any. A shame really :(
this is great. I'm honestly more concerned about lag than pristine video quality, but only have inexpensive 720p TVs in the house. never noticed lag, so I could use a program like this to double-check before getting a scaler. I'm keeping an eye on HD Retrovision for more YPbPr cables.
Bro, what is that song at 8:20? Its baller
you guys list your theme song but not the other awesome music in this video :( Makes me sad when it isn't in the description. I know this was 8 years ago but pleeease
[Try4ce] Watch a few seconds longer and the game music gets credited too! It's from Sparkster (a.k.a Rocket Knight Adventures 2, Genesis version).
Sparkster music at 5:53 oh yeah!
Now do a video on optimizing my Sony Trinitron 32 inch RetroTV with the 240p Test Suite. Also need that episode for the adjusting of geometry for my CRT.
Is 5:30 an example of how it should look like or how it shouldn't look like? Just want to be sure.
¡Venga Artemio!, muchas felicidades, viva México.
Thanks I'm gonna test it on my psone
I have an 80" Sharp LC-80LE642 HDTV, and I'm definitely in the camp where the composite/component inputs have significantly less input lag than my HDMI inputs. Utilizing the manual lag option within the test suite, I was getting around a 30-40ms delay on the analog connections whereas it jumped up to 100+ ms on HDMI. Very strange, as you would think a digital connection would reduce lag as there's no analog-to-digital conversion and/or upscaling.
At any rate, my classic consoles are all hooked up via S-Video to a CRT Sony Wega KV-32FS100. There's no input lag there and the picture looks great, except for some moderate horizontal linearity issues. Unfortunately, my model doesn't appear to have an "HLIN" setting (or something similar) in the service menu, so I may not be able to fix this outside of getting another TV.
The 240p Test Suite hasn't been ported to 3DO yet so I put together a simple version of one... for basic CRT and upscaler calibration
Has the CRT Geometry Episode happened yet? I just scored a nice Sony Trinitron Wega that could use some touching up with the geometry and would like to know how to do it safely.
Where can I find that arrange version of "Turrican III - Second floor" from minute 3:00 ?
Artemio me trajo aqui, desde el Score #100
Here in Mexico Artemio is some sort of God among mexican gamers :)
could you please add cc or subtitles? its not available at this moment. thanks when you do
Alright, Urbina told me "I have EXCELLENT reflexes" after I ran my manual lag test on my 1chip RGB Snes! Plus, OSSC is amazing!
keep in mind that is not a reliable lag test =)
@@ArtemioUrbina NOOOOO, my 15 minutes of confidence have been crushed by the man!!! LOL Thanks for all your hard work with programs you give us AU! I don't really follow any forums so I'm in the dark, but is there any chance of a Sega Saturn suite ISO down the road?
Artemio u r the bestt!!! ahuevo!!
song at 8:20? sounds so familiar
Great work guys, as always. Any update on the geometry vid? Can you include how to adjust it on some popular Sony PVM CRTs/
Desperately looking forward to the geometry adjustment episode! 😢
[Try4ce] We actually shot a ton of material for this just a few weeks ago with Steve from Retro Tech! ua-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html I can't say for sure when the episode will materialize, but it's closer than it's ever been!
great video please spanish subtitles ,maybe help a lot of more people outthere specially artemio's mexicans fan base
+dcmasteroftimes [Try4ce] This is something we're actually working on getting done! :)
+dcmasteroftimes That's my bad, I haven't finished that yet. I'm sorry.
Please talk about SONY PVMs when you do the geometry video. I have a pvm-20L5 and I started messing with the geometry/color, but I still need help!
Does it cost £2.40?
Artemio es un gran maestro para la industria de los videojuegos
Was there ever a video about about TV/CRT geometry adjustments? I can't seem to find it, and I don't think it was covered in the CRT/PVM episode...
[Try4ce] Not yet, we promised this far too long ago. But early this year we actually had the chance to shoot Steve from the channel Retro Tech working on some CRTs, and that will become the geometry episode sometime!
Does somebody know how to run this test suite on a ps2?
I can't wait for the future episode on CRT geometry settings. My sony trinitron I use for 240p gaming is a little off. I am currently playing through FF3 (aka ff6) on my snes and the character walk speed makes it extremely noticeable lol. I still consider it better than the HDTV's I own since they handle 240p terribly. You pretty much nailed it with the numbered framing test...I'm getting a large amount of dropped frames lol. Maybe I should invest in the framemeister.
[Try4ce] Maybe I should try fixing my HD Trinitron geometry as part of that episode. I don't use it much anymore, but yeah, 2D games, especially platformers I think, make a ribbon wave as the screen scrolls... I sorta retrained my eye to ignore it when it was my main TV.
+My Life in Gaming That would be incredibly helpful! I am currently in the service menu adjusting some settings, but the definitions of what each setting is doing is a little hard to understand. I'm also debating trying to use a voltage regulating power strip. As a musician I know tubes are greatly affected by the input voltage. You'd be surprised at what a difference 118 vs 125 makes in a guitar amp. I'm willing to bet it affects CRT displays too.
Out of curiosity was the topic of adjusting geometry ever covered in one of the MLiG videos?
[Try4ce] Not yet, but it's a high priority. We're trying to work with professional CRT techs on the episode, but making that happen has taken some time. We definitely don't want to put out bad information on the subject!
Is that the Toshiba 27af45 (or another size series) how was the geometry on it ?
@My Life in Gamnig,
Can you please expand on your coverage of the PVM/BVM monitors?
[Try4ce] We did a whole episode about CRTs, focusing fairly heavily on PVMs and BVMs. :) ua-cam.com/video/RAi8AVj9GV8/v-deo.html&lc=z13ijxvovumeggxskkicvj5bspvvi1as1 While we don't own BVMs ourselves (only PVMs), we recommend checking out Phonedork's channel, where he looks at a variety of professional monitors.
I gave up on scart a while ago, I got a CRT and s video for my n64 and gamecube. The CRT I found was barely used, I just had to adjust the yoke since the image was tilted, and I had to figure out how to get into the service mode since the overscan cut off much of the screen
You should be careful when using CD-Rs in the Dreamcast. The laser assembly in the console is meant to read GD-ROMs (Gigabyte Disc, a format developed specifically for the Dreamcast as an alternative to DVDs). The laser breaks down when trying to read burned CDs, and your console will eventually be unable to read any discs. I am by no means an expert on the Dreamcast laser assembly, but I would believe that there's a difference between using a CD-R as a boot disc (where it reads it for a couple rotations and then you put a GD-R in) and using a CD-R to run a game or program. The application of using 240p Test Suite sounds like it would read the disc a lot, so if you're planning on making the Dreamcast your platform of choice to run the 240p Test Suite on, I would be careful how often you use it.
From what I understand since its a program made for the mil cd format it would probably be fine. Those issues mainly are from gd rom games being compressed to mil cd and stressing the laser more since the games where never intended to be played though a cd let alone being compressed that much to fit on a cd.
The framemeister creates a noisy color signal on dark blue patterns. Emulator image is superior and 100% clean. It's got tons of other neat features from filters to quicksave. On my 1ms monitor I barely notice any lag at all. Literally the only thing that's better with the framemeister is 100% smooth scrolling which is neat but not neccessary and the SNES accuracy emulator is pretty damn well optimized now. I own the framemeister and I have a few consoles that I modded myself so I know what I'm talking about. If you own a 1ms monitor and have a fast processor - go with emulation all the way. I just like to own these consoles to have an option. Retroarch rules. It's just funny to read how anal people get about the framemeister when nothing you do can compare to a clean emulator image anyways. This is a fact! BUT...I also enjoy the smooth image scrolling that my original consoles gives me. It's nice to have options.
First, I agree with all of this. Second, I have a 720p native sony lcd tv and there's definately lag. It's not much and I haven't tested it but with all filters and functions off and game mode on there's still a few frames of lag. I play on my 1ms pc monitor though so ...I keep the tv for my wii-u.
www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/kdl-32d3000 this is mine
I got out my old crt and was surprised to see it had component video but the horizontal linearity is terrible. Idk how to fix it but it's very distracting and that's sad considering how great component looks on my tv
I should really do one of these tests. Wonder how many adjustments I'll make before I come to the conclusion that the way I calibrated my TV already was stupid and I'm stupid as a result.
I recognized some Super Turrican music in there. ;-)
Es Artemio el de score?
+Jonathan Treviño Yep
Dios Artemio, no seas igualado!
Wait, 720x240? Isn't that twice the resolution of the retro consoles? What does that mean for digital processing on 240p compatible scalers? Is that a bad thing?
+Max Caulfield [Try4ce] 240 is the vertical resolution. The 720 thing is a bit harder to explain, but basically the horizontal resolution is scaleable. 720 is multiplied by 0.9 to shrink to a 4:3 aspect... or multiplied by 1.2 to fill a 16:9 aspect. Modern video uses square pixels, but back in the day, it was all about horizontal stretching to give the proper proportion. 720 without stretching would never result in a correct aspect ratio by itself. It is always intended to be squished or stretched by the display (which scalers would also do). Even though the internal resolution of the system may be something like 320x240, the output conforms to a standard that's 720 wide (but still only 240 tall). This isn't my strongest subject, but hopefully that explains it well enough!
Is there a Sega Saturn equivalent of the 240p Test Suite? They have it for every system but the Saturn.
Did they ever do a CRT Calibration video?
[Try4ce] It's something we've put off because we decided we wanted to work with a repair tech on that. We might have an opportunity to do so next year though, so this might finally happen. People have been clamoring for it for years, so we really regret the wait.
I was just making sure I didn’t miss a video or a part of a video on this subject. No rush guys! This is my Go to in terms of retro gaming . You guys are simply amazing!
Does that Gamecube have a replacement top shell? Is it one of those shells designed to allow the use of full size DVD-Rs?
[Try4ce] Nah Coury just has a custom paint job on it.
+My Life in Gaming oh, nice!
Great video, I am trying to fix the geometry on my flat CRT for my Genesis but I am having trouble. I have the 240p test suite as well and tried to fix the geometry on the TV in its service mode. If you could make a video on the subject it would be greatly appreciated.Thank you
+Act Zaku (MS-11) [Try4ce] We actually are going to do a whole episode all about gaming on CRTs in the future, and geometry correction will definitely be part of it!
Unfortunately, I don't even need this to notice some of the issues my CRT has. I got it at a Goodwill because it was a tube tv (curved screen) for light gun games, and because it has an s-video input. It has two issues, and that's a bit of color bleeding, mostly in the color red, and asymmetry, most easily seen when using the GBA Player on the Gamecube. I eagerly await your video on how to help that, since I don't see anything in that tv's menu to fix it.
ShogunGin0 [Coury] We'll eventually get into that when we cover CRTs and PVMs, etc. The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people.
If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs.
❤️ MLiG
5:07 wait its NOT supposed to do that? I kinda like the effect.
I'm still waiting for a video on crt geometry :(
what is the song name / game at 8:20 ?
Sparkster (Genesis)
Can I perform these test on a DVD player also?
Where's the 480i, 480p 576p, 720p and 1080p test suite?
480i, 480p and 576p are available in the consoles that support them on their respective 240p Test Suites.
Regarding 720p and 1080p they are less useful, since video calibration discs are enough. But if the suite is ever ported to a console with HD support, they'd obviously be there.. but those consoles don't support proper 240p in general.
yeah, i know. It was just something like a joke.
The only alternative we need would be 288p, had it historically been made. But they squished the image instead.
+my life in gaming My BVM 2010p is waiting for your care,.. makes me unhappy display distorted image! Can I fly you over to correct it? or do the episode perhaps.. :P Grt Rudi
[Coury] We'll be doing the Geometry episode sometime this summer. I feel that I need to temper expectations though - every TV/monitor is going to be different. Because the capacitors in each set age differently, theres millions of possibilities. The Geometry settings in a monitor's service menu are to account for the different aspects and bring it back to as close to normal as possible. In many cases, its impossible to make it as good as new.
Coury, thanks for your answer :9 We will see what it brings but im sure ill get some tips & tricks that are useful. Cheers and good work! :)
My Life in Gaming when will the geometry episode be released?
The problem I have is my HDTV having too high brightness levels that can't be controlled with my remote. I need to find out why that's happening.