Great info in your vid. I got a Takamura R2 Gyuto just recently and I love it. I've been watching quiet a few vids on Takamuras lately and yours has a lot of useful information.
Good pick, the R2 Taks have a legendary reputation! Glad there was some good info in here for you. Really do enjoy the Chromax so maybe give it try if you want to try something not 100% stainless.
They both have aspects I like! I keep a messemeister meridian elite stealth in the block for knocking out quick meals after work before the wife and kid get home. But for bigger jobs or when I've got time to breath I go for my 240mm Miyabi or the Takamura. I just can't unfeel that beautiful cutting geometry!
@@EngineersPerspective701 beautiful cutting, those were the exact words that I had been thinking when I made my post! Maybe you said that in the video and it put it in my mind, haha. In any event, enjoyed the video as always.
Still nice to have a couple -60hrc knives for hacking and slashing at rough jobs that could chip out harder steels, but that’s very occasional use for most people
Unfortunately I don’t! From what I’ve heard and seen, the chromax is stiffer in a good way, has slightly better edge retention, sharpens better, but is not nearly the laser that the R2 is. Still an above average cutter though!
Good review, jibes with everything I think about this knife that I own, but why would you try to thin it? It's not thin enough? It's a laser, how are you going to improve on the performance? You own the knife and it's your choice but I wouldn't do that to this knife. The damn thing is gorgeous, why ruin that? OTOH an engineer in my experience can't help tinkering with things, so follow your bliss and tinker away; like I said, you bought the thing and it's yours to tinker with. I might think about repolishing the jigane but again, if you're happy that's fine.
Thank you for the comment! Did not need the thinning! It was my first clad Japanese knife so I used it to learn over 2yrs ago now. I like the look of it being “my knife” too. I didn’t always feel that way but it’s grown on me.
@@EngineersPerspective701 I hear ya. I have one and feel a bit reverential toward it so I was momentarily shocked. But I saw myself there were others ways to think about it. Murray Carter is big on thinning and he makes that exact point about taking ownership through maintenance so who am I to be judgey? Reminds me that years ago I had a few bamboo fly rods, and there was a similar thing where some people who owned $10,000 rods by famous makers would put them in a glass case, and others said you know what? That famous maker made the rod so you could go out and fish with it, so I will. I was more sympathetic to that point of view so like I said, it's your knife and at the end of the day it's a tool to cut food with and the makers knew and expected you'd take it and grind it on rocks. 😄
@@mfreeman313 Such a great attitude and I totally agree! It feels kind of like a slap in the face to the makers to not use the tool they painstakingly made but at the end of the day if a person gets the same reverence/experience by keeping it in the case then I say more power to em!
It can no doubt but I’ve never had it happen. Takes a patina very readily instead. I’ve had mine sitting out for a few hours with food on it many times and no rust. But I’m usually pretty diligent in rinsing and wiping it off right away.
@@franzb69 High-hardness, thin knives get chipped with careless use, even on a soft rubber cutting board. You have to be more careful and more conscious when using these knives than when you're using heavy western knives. A ceramic rod rod is no different. You have to move much slower and use less pressure than when honing with a western knife. It's possible you just don't have the patience to do this. That's totally fair. 99% of people don't have the patience for thin, hard, carbon steel knives, so they get a Victorinox or Wusthof and a pull through sharpener.. But there is no special "chipping chemical" in a ceramic rod. It's a round version of a ceramic stone. The problem is the combination of a thin/hard blade, a small contact area, and an overzealous user. Remove one of those factors and your unlikely to get chipping. We know you already have the first two, so the problem is you. I have many thin Japanese carbon steel knives (includingTakamura Chromax) at or above 65 HRC and can use a honing rod all of them without issues. I realize that "honing rods chip Japanese knives" is a popular UA-cam headline, but that's why it's called click bait. The answer is always more nuanced. There is actually a lot we don't know on a microscopic about what goes on when using a honing rods, but "realigning" an edge is not the goal when honing hard/thin blades. They are too hard for the edge to get "wavy" to any perceivable extent. The edge doesn't "roll" over like softer knives. The edge will chip and break away before it "bends" far enough over to affect perceivable cutting performance. Your abrading (aka sharpening) away the steel, which cleans up micro deformations and creates new micro serrations. That's why your only option with hard knives is a diamond or ceramic rod. If it was actually realigning, or "pushing" the edge of hard/thin knives back into place, you could just use a honing rod made out of steel. The confusion lies with the knife industries antiquated use of the term "Honing Rod" (aka butchers stee, steel, honing steel, sharpening steel, diamond rod, ceramic rod, etc.). The honing rod exploded in use with butchers in Europe who used super soft heavy knives. Their edges rolled quite a bit (way more than western knives do today) with the heavy-duty tasks of butchering. They usually used smooth steel rods (and often still do), with very little abrasive action. So for them, increased cutting performance after using a honing rod mostly came from realigning an edge. For hard/thin knives your not really using a honing rod, your using a "sharpening steel". Ironically, the term "honing" does actually mean to abrade steel. It's the final step in the 2 step sharpening process, grinding being the first step, and each step is often be broken down into sub steps (i.e. coarse, medium, fine). Stopping, the way most people use it, is just very fine "honing". Before the sharpening process is "Shaping" and after is "polishing". But the popularity of the honing rod changed the common use of the term "honing" to mean realigning (at least in the states) for the layperson. When using a high-grit stone for edge maintenance, in lieu of a strop or rod, most people would see that as "sharpening on a fine stone", and would mentally separate it from honing. The common teaching is to use a "honing" rod "in-between" "sharpening" session. No wonder everyone is confused. Soft knives get increased cutting performance via both realigning and sharpening when using a honing rod (unless it's a smooth rod). I been using the terms "soft" knives and "hard/thin" or "hard" knives to simplify things. But obviously there's a huge range of hardness' across knives that determine "how careful" you have to be when using a honing rod. That not even considering other crucial factors like edge thickness, rod material, grind, strength of the users, etc. Determining what percentage of improvement is due to realigning vs abrasion is probably impossible to know for softer knives. But most modern "soft' knives will still do better with ceramic or quality rough steel rods like F. Dick.. Smooth rods have mostly fallen out of favor (except for butchers) and most knife blocks include a rough rod. Therefore, my guess is the abrasion is the major affect for the majority of knives. Would is be "safer" to use a strop or high-grit stone to maintain the edge of hard/thin knife? It's only "safer" in reference to microchipping. You can ruin an edge just as fast as by doing the other methods improperly. In your case, you damaged your edge because you used the honing rod method improperly for your specific knife. Imagine what most people would do to their edge if you gave them a stone or strop and they didn't know the proper technique for their given knife. It's also much less convenient for most home cooks, even enthusiasts, to have those setups right in kitchen and ready to go. They also can't fit in a knife block or hung by a ring as conveniently. A rod can also bring back an edge with more damaged than a strop, which further decreases the frequency that you have to "go back to the stones". For most people, a honing rod is the most convenient method for edge maintenance. And thankfully a rod safe and effective for just about every kitchen, including the Takamura Chromax. You just have to change your technique. Just like you would change your technique when sharpening different knives, same rules apply.
Great info in your vid. I got a Takamura R2 Gyuto just recently and I love it. I've been watching quiet a few vids on Takamuras lately and yours has a lot of useful information.
Good pick, the R2 Taks have a legendary reputation! Glad there was some good info in here for you. Really do enjoy the Chromax so maybe give it try if you want to try something not 100% stainless.
High hardness, thin edge, Japanese knives; hard to go back to the German style knives, but I do still like them anyway 😏
They both have aspects I like! I keep a messemeister meridian elite stealth in the block for knocking out quick meals after work before the wife and kid get home. But for bigger jobs or when I've got time to breath I go for my 240mm Miyabi or the Takamura. I just can't unfeel that beautiful cutting geometry!
@@EngineersPerspective701 beautiful cutting, those were the exact words that I had been thinking when I made my post! Maybe you said that in the video and it put it in my mind, haha. In any event, enjoyed the video as always.
Still nice to have a couple -60hrc knives for hacking and slashing at rough jobs that could chip out harder steels, but that’s very occasional use for most people
Have you try Takamura R2? I only have the R2, thinking of getting Chromax, but hope someone can do comparisons between them.
Unfortunately I don’t! From what I’ve heard and seen, the chromax is stiffer in a good way, has slightly better edge retention, sharpens better, but is not nearly the laser that the R2 is. Still an above average cutter though!
Good review, jibes with everything I think about this knife that I own, but why would you try to thin it? It's not thin enough? It's a laser, how are you going to improve on the performance? You own the knife and it's your choice but I wouldn't do that to this knife. The damn thing is gorgeous, why ruin that? OTOH an engineer in my experience can't help tinkering with things, so follow your bliss and tinker away; like I said, you bought the thing and it's yours to tinker with. I might think about repolishing the jigane but again, if you're happy that's fine.
Thank you for the comment! Did not need the thinning!
It was my first clad Japanese knife so I used it to learn over 2yrs ago now. I like the look of it being “my knife” too. I didn’t always feel that way but it’s grown on me.
@@EngineersPerspective701 I hear ya. I have one and feel a bit reverential toward it so I was momentarily shocked. But I saw myself there were others ways to think about it. Murray Carter is big on thinning and he makes that exact point about taking ownership through maintenance so who am I to be judgey? Reminds me that years ago I had a few bamboo fly rods, and there was a similar thing where some people who owned $10,000 rods by famous makers would put them in a glass case, and others said you know what? That famous maker made the rod so you could go out and fish with it, so I will. I was more sympathetic to that point of view so like I said, it's your knife and at the end of the day it's a tool to cut food with and the makers knew and expected you'd take it and grind it on rocks. 😄
@@mfreeman313 Such a great attitude and I totally agree!
It feels kind of like a slap in the face to the makers to not use the tool they painstakingly made but at the end of the day if a person gets the same reverence/experience by keeping it in the case then I say more power to em!
Will the chromax rust ?
It can no doubt but I’ve never had it happen. Takes a patina very readily instead. I’ve had mine sitting out for a few hours with food on it many times and no rust. But I’m usually pretty diligent in rinsing and wiping it off right away.
ceramic rods even chip my high hardness knives so i don't even use them
Have to use less force. This Takamura is 64-65 HRC and not a tough steel. No issues with it. Less is more type of approach.
@@EngineersPerspective701 my blue steel in 64hrc get chipped and don't get realigned edges from ceramic rod honing
@@franzb69 don’t know what to tell you 🤷🏼♂️
@@franzb69 Not surprised, tried similar approach and chipped my r2
@@franzb69 High-hardness, thin knives get chipped with careless use, even on a soft rubber cutting board. You have to be more careful and more conscious when using these knives than when you're using heavy western knives. A ceramic rod rod is no different. You have to move much slower and use less pressure than when honing with a western knife. It's possible you just don't have the patience to do this. That's totally fair. 99% of people don't have the patience for thin, hard, carbon steel knives, so they get a Victorinox or Wusthof and a pull through sharpener.. But there is no special "chipping chemical" in a ceramic rod. It's a round version of a ceramic stone. The problem is the combination of a thin/hard blade, a small contact area, and an overzealous user. Remove one of those factors and your unlikely to get chipping. We know you already have the first two, so the problem is you. I have many thin Japanese carbon steel knives (includingTakamura Chromax) at or above 65 HRC and can use a honing rod all of them without issues. I realize that "honing rods chip Japanese knives" is a popular UA-cam headline, but that's why it's called click bait. The answer is always more nuanced. There is actually a lot we don't know on a microscopic about what goes on when using a honing rods, but "realigning" an edge is not the goal when honing hard/thin blades. They are too hard for the edge to get "wavy" to any perceivable extent. The edge doesn't "roll" over like softer knives. The edge will chip and break away before it "bends" far enough over to affect perceivable cutting performance. Your abrading (aka sharpening) away the steel, which cleans up micro deformations and creates new micro serrations. That's why your only option with hard knives is a diamond or ceramic rod. If it was actually realigning, or "pushing" the edge of hard/thin knives back into place, you could just use a honing rod made out of steel. The confusion lies with the knife industries antiquated use of the term "Honing Rod" (aka butchers stee, steel, honing steel, sharpening steel, diamond rod, ceramic rod, etc.). The honing rod exploded in use with butchers in Europe who used super soft heavy knives. Their edges rolled quite a bit (way more than western knives do today) with the heavy-duty tasks of butchering. They usually used smooth steel rods (and often still do), with very little abrasive action. So for them, increased cutting performance after using a honing rod mostly came from realigning an edge. For hard/thin knives your not really using a honing rod, your using a "sharpening steel". Ironically, the term "honing" does actually mean to abrade steel. It's the final step in the 2 step sharpening process, grinding being the first step, and each step is often be broken down into sub steps (i.e. coarse, medium, fine). Stopping, the way most people use it, is just very fine "honing". Before the sharpening process is "Shaping" and after is "polishing". But the popularity of the honing rod changed the common use of the term "honing" to mean realigning (at least in the states) for the layperson. When using a high-grit stone for edge maintenance, in lieu of a strop or rod, most people would see that as "sharpening on a fine stone", and would mentally separate it from honing. The common teaching is to use a "honing" rod "in-between" "sharpening" session. No wonder everyone is confused. Soft knives get increased cutting performance via both realigning and sharpening when using a honing rod (unless it's a smooth rod). I been using the terms "soft" knives and "hard/thin" or "hard" knives to simplify things. But obviously there's a huge range of hardness' across knives that determine "how careful" you have to be when using a honing rod. That not even considering other crucial factors like edge thickness, rod material, grind, strength of the users, etc. Determining what percentage of improvement is due to realigning vs abrasion is probably impossible to know for softer knives. But most modern "soft' knives will still do better with ceramic or quality rough steel rods like F. Dick.. Smooth rods have mostly fallen out of favor (except for butchers) and most knife blocks include a rough rod. Therefore, my guess is the abrasion is the major affect for the majority of knives. Would is be "safer" to use a strop or high-grit stone to maintain the edge of hard/thin knife? It's only "safer" in reference to microchipping. You can ruin an edge just as fast as by doing the other methods improperly. In your case, you damaged your edge because you used the honing rod method improperly for your specific knife. Imagine what most people would do to their edge if you gave them a stone or strop and they didn't know the proper technique for their given knife. It's also much less convenient for most home cooks, even enthusiasts, to have those setups right in kitchen and ready to go. They also can't fit in a knife block or hung by a ring as conveniently. A rod can also bring back an edge with more damaged than a strop, which further decreases the frequency that you have to "go back to the stones". For most people, a honing rod is the most convenient method for edge maintenance. And thankfully a rod safe and effective for just about every kitchen, including the Takamura Chromax. You just have to change your technique. Just like you would change your technique when sharpening different knives, same rules apply.