I really wished everyone had the same politeness this young lady had while talking to Cliff. Praying she finds faith in Jesus as Lord of her life soon.
This was probably one of the best "debates" with a student. It was calm, and everyone was respectful and listened to one another. God bless her, the other students and of course Cliffe.
The problem with her argument, specifically the “baby deer dying because of a disease” example that she gave is that she’s assuming that natural processes are evil and that a baby deer dying because of a lack of adaption to the environment is also evil.
Rare to see such humbleness on both sides. Pray for that girl that God opens her eyes soon. As once a blind man said, "One thing I know, that though I was blind, now I see."
Bless her heart. She is so messed up in her thinking. There is a devil & he is very good at deceiving people. Deception is someone trying to make someone believe something that is not true.
The brilliance of Cliffe's approach to evangelism is that by making people aware of the inconsistencies and hypocrisy of their personal world views, he's also encouraging them to look at things differently while simultaneously getting them to ask THEMSELVES key questions about God, morality, purpose, and eternity. Make no mistake, God / Christ has left us with IMMENSE evidence for belief in Him, but first people often need to realize the absurd futility of their present world view before they become willing to consider another. I would further challenge people by asking them if they could know the truth about God and Christ, would they truly WANT to know it? If not, WHY not? As well, ask them, just as a personal experiment, that if they are an open-minded person, have they ever ASKED God to reveal Himself to them? Because if they do so sincerely, He WILL do it! And no one needs to know of, what for you, may initially seem just a private experiment. *As why would someone not be willing to at least do THAT - if they are really open-minded and sincerely want to know the truth of the matter about God?*
2:38 it’s actually insane how many people claim to be concerned about animal suffering yet use products made from their bodily fluids, wear clothes made of their skins, and eat them after someone else has actually done the dirty work.
It's not about animals this question was an effort aimed to understand God's perspective regarding this particular issue related to justice and morality
If there is no God, evil doesn't exist, good doesn't exist, bad doesn't exist - everything is merely your relative, subjective opinion and everything simply just "is".
@@EchoGuzman Its not objective if god is exempt. And god has already broken every law he set. So its either not objective or god is a hypocrite. You pick.
@@EchoGuzmanyou have to understand the mental deficiencies of your average internet atheist. They've heard this trope that morals are subjective even if God is the source. That's obviously ridiculous and they've never given it any real thought. I could say that the rules of chess are subjective but I can't just move the pieces how ever I want. They confuse the inventor of chess with the player of chess and then pretending they have the same relationship with the game. They are quite ridiculous.
"Why would a loving God allow....." This line of questioning from atheists is so tiresome. Ultimately it leads to their belief that God should be actively intervening in everything, thus negating free will. Atheists hate God and concepts of God, but they also seem to hate free will even more.
They also hate it when they read about him intervening. It’s not a belief thing or lack of evidence. It’s a pathetic immature ego and pride that they can’t get past to actually learn about who God is and in their emotions they say there is no God. God is going to destroy all evil, even petty thievery. Only way to escape the judgement and punishment is to put your faith in Jesus, if you don’t then you’re completely guilty in the eyes of a perfect God.
@@Ronwjr it is true that I often hear atheists complain when God intervenes. They often point to when the Israelites drove the Canaanites out of the land of Canaan, calling it "genocide." When you ask, "What ought God to have done with people who for 400 years practiced infanticide, bestiality, and roamed around killing other weaker people than themselves?" He brought judgment on them. A group Dr. Phil therapy session wasn't going to cut it. The Canaanites did evil and were only getting worse as time went on, and God knew that if Canaanite civilization was allowed to continue, it was quite clear what would happen: they'd corrupt Israel into doing the exact same kind of evil things. And no surprise: that's exactly what happened when they failed to drive them out completely.
@@sidwhiting665 so God COULD have nipped their horrific actions in the bud, but, he allowed it to continue, for 400 years. Think about that for a minute.
I have had a similar outlook when it comes to atheist. They always seem to hate free will, they want a world of robots. I also believe it’s due to them ultimately not really loving life because they are tired of it, and prefer a world where they do not want to perform but be performed for, or as others say it, accountability.
Not laughing at the first girl, dont wana insult her or anybody but youre gonna rest a portion of your beliefs on what animals go through and feel? Like im puzzled by that. Perplexed even
Oh my gosh, sound the alarms, someone has empathy for individuals of other species. There’s also far far far more wild animals and nonhuman animals on this planet than us. Clearly you cannot ignore this if you think there’s an all loving, perfect God. He’s done this, right? He designed these animals to feel extreme pain, similar to us, and then creates the evil and suffering for almost every wild animal to go through at some point? Makes no sense.
Grew up atheist even bashed on Christians and now later in my life I can’t forgive myself for what I put these people through I found God and I pray everyday day for a forgiveness that I don’t deserve
It’s ok brother, We’d rather welcome a brother into the faith and into our family than keep a grudge and push them away ❤️❤️ you are Forgiven my friend Christ loves you
A truly repentant heart is forgiven in the sight of the Lord. Feelings of guilt are normal, its why we ask for God's forgiveness. But rest assured, brother, He has forgiven you and will not hold those things against you. Jeremiah 31:34 "I will forgive their iniquities and I will remember their sins no more" Isaiah 43:25 "I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake and I will not remember your sins" Psalm 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far does He remove our transgressions from us" Stop holding things against yourself. God isn't. You've asked Him to forgive your sins and He has done so. Let go and keep growing in the spirit ❤
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. --Zechariah 12:10
@ nah not so much. The question is surface level, elementary logic. The answer has a deeper logical foundation. The question : wHy GoD sO mEaN iF he luVz us?? The answer : God defines true love therefore your basis of what is loving is nonexistent if God doesn’t exist. Don’t believe me? Where do your morals come from and why are they “good”?
@@maurice2014 I don’t believe you, because regardless of where I get my morals that doesn’t require a God. Why do animals show emotions/empathy if they aren’t made in gods image (elephants especially)? I personally get my own morals from desire (do I want to get arrested?/will this help me?) here’s a real “why would a loving God” question since you think you’ve mastered the craft. Why would a loving God have infinite punishment for a finite crime (in which HE created the person likely to commit crimes) and better yet if he truly is outside of time he would’ve seen this coming and stopped before hand, but he chose to go ahead and do it to fulfill his own loneliness? So 20 get saved and 80% suffer so god can have worshippers? Doesn’t seem very logical
@ you literally wrote a paragraph essentially saying the same exact thing as the question. Good job. 👏🏾 why doesn’t utopia exist? would’ve been a better reconstruction of the question in my opinion. By the way, I would call pointing out a weak logical question mastering a craft.. 😂
Addressing her point about the existence of multiple religions and the tendency of people to believe in them because they are raised in those traditions, one might ask which religion, since its inception, appears to be the most successful-both morally and otherwise-when we look back at history today.
The bible says animals do have souls (Psalm 74:19). In the beginning, God made creation very good (Genesis 1:31). However, sin entered the world through Adam & Eve's sin, and consequently, the creation was cursed and as a consequence suffering came into the world. But bear in mind, no one has suffered more than the Son of God, Jesus Christ, in order to suffer the penalty for the sin of the world. The bible teaches that one day soon, this curse will be lifted when the Lord comes back to reign over the earth. This young lady seems to have arrived at some wrong conclusions about God and the Bible, and also sits on moral judgment on God for the fact that animals suffer, which she does from a lack of understanding of the Bible. I hope she continues to read it and sincerely pray for God's help to understand it.
If animals cannot sin, then they are favored. But man was made in God's image, not animals. So where do you get this idea that animals have souls? Is there ant colonies in heaven mucking up the grass?
Faith is believing in something you can't see or touch. Having faith in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit brings so much comfort. And whenever you want to, you can talk to them and they listen. I think Cliffe should have brought that up.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE. May 2025 be good to you. I saw this quote this morning from Stanley Kubrick, if you're an atheist, i think it's quite uplifting. "The most terrifying fact about the Universe is not that it's hostile, but that it is indifferent. But if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light". S Kubrick.
And where do you get your information? Did rocks inform you? Did some invisible magical knowledge from the universe somehow download it's self into your DNA? You "haven't seen" Cliff win a debate because you can't comprehend the debates. The subject matter is simply above your cognitive ability - in the same way that a cat "hasn't seen Cliff win a debate" - It just cannot be comprehended by the lower formed brain.
@@CelticSpiritsCoven Cliffe changes the subject and gets angry every time he loses a debate, it's a familiar pattern seen in most of his videos with half-competent adversaries. Girl asks - how does Christianity explain animal suffering, Cliffe gets angry and says - but you think animal suffering is fine because you don't care about good and evil. Say it angrily enough and people will forget you didn't answer the question.
@@seantaylor4095 Cliff only loses, in your opinion, because he's not in your cult religion. Now, we cannot even take you seriously. Stop wasting our time by speaking on these subjects you can't comprehend.
@@CelticSpiritsCoven What cult religion do you think I belong to? I'm an atheist, which in case you haven't looked it up is not a cult or a religion. Watch any Cliffe debate and the pattern is the same. If he's losing an argument, he gets angry, avoids the question and then shifts the burden of proof on to more comfortable territory. A little bit like your weak attempt to close me down by not addressing the point I made, making an unsubstantiated claim, followed by an insult. I'd happily debate you on any of this, but scratch beneath the surface of your statements and there's nothing there.
I'm so proud of this young woman for holding her own in this conversation. bravo! what cliffe doesn't seem to understand is that just because someone rejects jesus does not mean they have to have a better alternative. cliffe claims to have found the answer to the meaning of life. the young woman rejects it. if she does not have a better explanation, that does not make cliffe's claim true by default. it is perfectly possible to live your every day life without having figured out the answers to life's most difficult questions, and to suggest otherwise is the true intellectual dishonesty.
If one doesn't have an alternative plausible metaphysic that's even be able to provide epistemic justification then anything they say is worthless and should be ignored.
@@autisticphaglosophy7128 Don’t do bad things to others You going to ignore that unless I have a subjective to your opinion plausible metaphysical true justification for that statement Who’s the Christian relativist now ? Hahahaha 😂😂😂
That's good - all the technology and increased knowledge can't erase sin and evil ,more power to you - ONLY Jesus death and resurrection can neutralize sin
Cliff please be gentle with this woman... She is obviously seeking. It's ok to ask her hard questions but don't be angry when she obviously hasn't thought through things and is put on spot regarding what she is living for. Sometimes your confrontive way of talking can make the other person panic and get pushed too hard. Say something like, take your time, I know this may be something you haven't thought too much about. Let's work together on this. That would be grace. Thanks and love your videos as always!
I don't think Cliffe understood the girl's point about animal suffering. If God does not exist and evolution is true it's just what happens, but if Christianity is true then Christians need to explain it or somehow excuse it, but he failed to do that. He thought she was infuriated by animal suffering but she wasn't, she was simply asking him to explain it from the Christian point of view.
@@pcdeltalink036 That's the 'usual' apologist's explanation but I still struggle with the concept of pain. Pain is the warning system that prevents us from damaging our bodies. So do you think we'll experience pain in our resurrected bodies, and if not, how will we be prevented from damaging them?
@@KendalSmithy And no, there will be no pain. Rev 21:4 "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
I don't think she has made as much of a study of Christianity as she claims. She has a superficial understanding of Christian doctrine of Law and Gospel. Everyone has a 'god': it's whatever you spend most of your time, money, and effort on. She says she likes to do things that make her happy. So.... she lives for self-pleasure. That is her god. Not an uncommon one either among non-Christians. That said, she's young and seems willing to engage. So hopefully her chat with Cliff with lead to further questioning of her own premises and whether or not she can trust her god.
@@bonnie43uk Do we just take people at their word when they say such? Do we even know what they really mean when they say that? Would you believe a criminal if they said that?
To the girl who is on the quest for truth, read all the red text in the Bible, which are Jesus's words. Try to find fault in them. You will have to try real hard to see there isn't any. So if there is only truth in Jesus's words, maybe you can find more by practicing what he taught. Then you will know God. God can't exist to you, until you give Him a chance to. God bless you
How does cliff know the 20th century was the bloodiest? Does he know how many Aztecs died? How bout Pueblos? How many Chinese died during 1st emperor? How many died during Punich Wars?
Likely through historical and archeological evidence. Plus, by sheer numbers, the 20th was the deadliest with 1) Stalin's purge, 2) Lenin, 3) Mao, 4) Hitler, 5) Idi Amin, 6) Khmer Rouge. One student tried to counter this argument once by saying "Well, that doesn't count because there simply were more people in the 20th than in the 11th Century." That argument didn't go well.
@nabukwe there is no historical or archeological evidence that tracked death numbers in ancient times. And that's just the civilizations we have some form of written history of. Fact god wiped out entire planet at one point if bible is true would seem to be pretty high numbers.
Cliffe isn't wise, but he is clever at avoiding difficult questions. The question was how does Christianity explain animal suffering and he turns it into atheists have no concept of good and bad so why would you care? What kind of an answer is that? When he comes up against someone half intelligent he gets angry to retain control of the debate.
Cliffe constantly asks this question in all his video's "What are you living for?, and what's the evidence that what you're living for is true"? I'll be happy to answer that as a non believer, I don't think we're born into this world with a specific purpose, i can't ever recall my parents saying to me "Tom, you're purpose in life is . . . " When I was a child, I had no concept of a specific purpose, but my parents taught me right from wrong, that is always a good grounding for life, rewards and punishments are common for all kids. To answer the question directly, i live for the joy of living, there is much to enjoy in life, the evidence for that is all around me, I feel very fortunate to be alive and to be able to enjoy life in all it's many forms 🙂No God is required as far as i can see.
@@jovindream He could indeed say that my friend, I'm not a moral relativist who believes it's ok for others to commit horrific crimes, I don't know anyone who is. I base my morals on whether actions are beneficial or harmful to myself and others, so, clearly, doing what the German leader did was mightily harmful to millions of people. What is your purpose in life then jovindream, and how old were you when you found out your purpose?
The amount of times you've commented on Cliffe's videos, which is honestly too many to count, leads me to believe that you're struggling with life and your repeated opposition to what he says is your way of coping with the suffering you're going through. You don't have to keep wasting your life away doing this. He will always have open arms for you the moment you let go of your pride. God bless.
@@xelvania1581 I'm certainly not struggling in life xelvania, my life is very good. I thank my lucky stars everyday for the life I have. Certainly I enjoy these conversations and like to hear other opinions, this is a subject that I have given a lot of thought to over the years, and it's one that is close to my heart as a former Christian, it most certainly is not a waste of my time. Is my potential future a concern for you once I am dead?
A very interesting response. So your parents taught you what, in their opinion, is right and wrong. The question raised is, "Were your parents always correct?" You live for the joy of living. Okay.... so tomorrow you contract an incurable illness that debilitates you and causes a lot of pain but isn't lethal. It just nasty enough to make it impossible to enjoy the top 20 pleasures in your life and cuts down by 80% the remaining pleasures. Does you life still have a purpose since living is no longer a joy? Let's pretend for a moment you were not born in 1st world society based on a Judeo-Christian worldview within the past 200 years. Rather, you were born in a war torn country ruled by thuggish gangs, like Somalia or somewhere in sub-Sahara Africa. You are poor. You lack education. People abuse you for their own personal amusement. Your teeth fell out by your mid-20s from lack of nutrition as a child. You starve 1 out of every 3 days. Perhaps you were raped by people who are in powerful positions. Where is justice? Where is hope? As Nietzsche said, (paraphrase) "Life is meaningless..... why bother?" It's interesting to me that Christianity has always flourished the most where times are the toughest. It spread across the Roman empire for three centuries while Christians were persecuted and knew they needed God to rely on. Today, it flourishes in places where it is officially banned (China, the Middle East, Africa), and it languishes in places where it's been readily accepted, such as Europe and North America. Given a comfortable, 1st-world lifestyle, it's easy to see why many people think God is not required. Give it time. Life will catch up and get nasty at some point. Atheism is hollow to the core when it comes to suffering and injustice.
People talk about the Love of God and that is PART of who he is, but what about his ANGER, JEALOUSY etc etc etc...only tells me that THEY have NOT READ THE SCRIPTURES...Read the Scriptures people...GEEZ !!!
That first girl has not looked for truth at all. Based on her questions she hasn’t even scratched the surface of what can be learned. She asked very simply basic questions that any Christian should be able to dismantle. Nothing ground breaking here even though she really thinks it is.
It doesn’t matter if an atheist knows what the convincing evidence would be. What matters is that an omniscient god knows exactly what it would take to convince a particular atheist in the existence of that god.
Yes indeed, that young girl spoke a lot of sense to me, in the atheistic world, it makes sense that we happen to live on a planet that was not specifically designed for mankind, hence all the animal predation, which from our perspective seems horrific eg: to see a lion eat a baby zebra while it's still alive, and to hear the screams of the zebra as it's being eaten, most of us would find that hard to watch. The sheer amount of suffering in the animal world alone is off the scale, but atheism can explain it from a naturalistic world. The problem of suffering from a Christian perspective has no logical answer as i see it.
@@Max-cq7ni The young lady was talking specifically about the horrific suffering of millions of sentient animals on the planet who get eaten alive on a daily basis. With regard to Jesus's crucifixion, wasn't that God's whole plan, for his son to suffer? They call it vicarious redemption.
@bonnie43uk Jesus took on our sins. The wages of sin are death. Someone has to be punished for our sins for justice. If you were convicted of a crime, you wouldn't get off until someone pays the fine/bail or did the time.
@@Max-cq7ni Any crimes or misdemeanours are my concern Max, it's down to me to make amends to the person I wronged, and it's down to that person whether or not he/she wants to forgive me. If you committed a crime, would it be right/moral if someone chose to go to prison on your behalf?
Yes, so why did you just make that statement? Is it not a defense for truth? Apologetics is defense of the truth, anytime we say " this is true" is giving an Apologetic, I don't know how to spell it in the actual Greek word.
@MG-ot2yr oh come on! Why comment then? Do think your statement was true? Do you correct lies? Or believe them? Every time you say "good" or "bad" you are being an apologists.
Oh man I love this verse. It's from the gospel of EB(Evolutionary Biology). I believe it's from the book of Speciation. *Speciation **3:14* _"And thus, from one lineage came two, diverging unto their own paths."_
@therick363 Refute this particular statement. Nuh uh isn't near enough satisfactory. 20 years from now, even the day your natural death takes place. There's more than enough experimental evidence now to prove abiogenesis isn't possible. You guys can't even make a moderate protein form in a reasonable simulation of a prebiotic world. There's a reason you're scared to read The Stairway to Life: An Origin of Life Realty Check by Tan and Stadler.
@therick363 Be more than happy for you to reference anyone who can prove your delusion that non living matter arranged itself into a cell capable of evolving. Or even a single protein or gene. The simplest cell has 473 genes coding for the replication of 42 million proteins. But a warm little pond exposed to all 98 elements managed?
@therick363 The illusion is yt algorithm is fair, unbiased. There is no reason for the newest and top comment feature other than suppressing the truth.
Cliff is great, but in this case he failed to communicate a bit more directly. He’s always been good at steering people’s minds, so they can come up to a conclusion on their own. Which is the best way - the realization moment. But sometimes you need to really lay it all out straight. The Word of God is perfect! It opens hearts and steers souls like nothing else. Just read the Gospel. Let it work.
Excellent idea, but it just doesn't work at times. I've seen open air evangelists / apologists (sometimes just a few 100 yards away from Cliffe) who simply read the Gospels and they typically had an audience of zero. Cliffe, on the other hand, typically has audiences of hundreds of students. This might be the reason Jesus spoke in parables and stories because they were far more memorable and make-you-think-able (if that's a word) rather than simply reading the Torah at people.
Isaiah 40:31 ESV [31] but they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint. Repent and turn to Jesus and remember he always loves you!❤
Yes; she misunderstood the concept of atheism, which is the rejection of the question of "is there a god." Life has a purpose and meaning without a god. Agnosticism does not mean that you don't know if a person "is there" or something is "an illusion." I'm not sure why people think that if you don't believe in god then you have no moral compass. Jesus is a "dirty-rotten sinner?" Now I'm confused... I thought he was without sin?
Please, give me an answer! My wife and I sadly lost our first daughter during the pregnancy. I believe that she is safely in our Lord's Kingdom in heaven but what does the bible say about this? After all she hasn't had the chance to folow Jesus. I know He knows us even before we were in the whomp but we've inherented sin. So how does the go according to the Bible? Excuse my English it is not my first language.
Matthew 19:14 “but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” 2 Samuel 12:23 New International Version “23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” From what I understand, Children go to heaven automatically. Even King Daniel was convinced of this. I pray the Lord brings peace upon your heart in this time I’m so sorry for your Loss much love from a brother in Christ ❤️❤️❤️❤️
The point is: there's no room for excuses in Christianity. You can't just decide to he a trans person or go and steal off a person.....because if you follow the Lord then you know you can't, but you won't anyone, because I follow the commandments.
Yes to be a true Christian of God is to have your heart right with him and practice your relationship with Jesus Christ and follow the teachings that he taught us be more like him AKA practicing righteousness instead of sin
i was just wondering about God commandment. is it important to teach Gods word, and do them, or is it more important to teach God words but not do them? I know it's a rhetorical question, because to teach about God and not do his laws is defeating God purpose don't you think. Are the 10 commandment's still relevant today?
"Are the 10 commandment's still relevant today?" Yes, absolutely. As it is written, "Not one iota (the tiniest part) of the Law will pass away until everything is fulfilled." - Jesus - Honor your parents. - Do not murder. - Do not steal. - Do not sinfully desire property that belongs to someone else. - Do not have sexual relations with another person's spouse or with someone to whom you aren't married. - Do not lie about or defame another person. - Honor, trust, love, hold in awe, and worship God alone with all your being. All of these still apply today and will until the Last Day when the world is made new and God's people are perfected to where the Law is no longer needed, because we will do all of those things perfectly and be utterly without sin.
Noah ark could be a great point to mention there to show God's mercy toward animals and also animals live and enjoy life it isn't all about suffering and killing such as hunter and prey. Some animals or animal like beings are mentioned to be in heaven and God will fix problems of wild life in new earth and new heaven.
I think you fail to understand the point Job where God allowed Job to suffer. Sure, he did not sin. God allowed the accuser to test Job's righteousness toward God. Job's message literally says that things just "are" (or "is") because God wishes to. "He snatches away; who can stop him? Who will say to him, ‘What are you doing?’" (Job 9:12) "Then there came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and they ate bread with him in his house; they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him; and each of them gave him a piece of money and a gold ring." (Job 42:11)
She painted herself into an intellectual corner when she finally got around to thinking of HERSELF as the center of her own universe. That sounds like an incredibly lonely place to be.
she comes across as a very thoughtful and honest young lady to me. Cliffe is a seasoned Christian apologist, so he would have pre set answers to any objections she had, she did very well to put her points across. Cliffe says he believes in evolution, yet he doesn't seem aware of how that process works. You cannot have evolution and "the fall of man", those 2 things are incompatible.
We can only be justified by the BLOOD of CHRIST, the Lamb of GOD, free given by the Father to take away the sin of the world. For it is only by His Pure Blood shed on the Heavenly Mercy Seat, that we obtain the Pardon of GOD. Have faith in the REDEEMER BLOOD OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST before the RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH establishes a new paradigm, which will force you to die as a beheaded martyr for CHRIST for your salvation. BE BLESSED ALL
I will say one thing, why are we born into an unfair world for something that happened long ago? Secondly, did we choose to be born into this world or were we forced here?
I'm an atheist, and most often the response I hear is that God HAD to punish the sins of the first man and women, and since he's the supreme being, can choose whatever punish he sees fit. And now that we live in this "fallen world" we are driven to wickedness and sin. This is our fault, and we all deserve eternal torment for it. So essentially even though God intentionally cursed us to have wicked souls and an unchangeable, sinful nature, it is still somehow *our* fault.
@@PureLuck719 I agree with this. It doesn’t justify all the pain and suffering that we’ve had since the supposed “first man and woman” sinned. I also think that we are forced to be here because no one would choose to be born into an unfair world that is full of pain and suffering.
Evil has to be punished. Humans do evil, not God. Life is a gift if there's a God that communicated you that you have value, if u don't, life is nonsense. We cursed ourselves, not God.
So what you're saying, in essence, is if you'd been born like Adam and Eve into a perfect world, you would never have sinned and therefore somehow God is not being fair by not creating you as a perfect person in a perfect world? You didn't "get a fair chance?" Man... the level of pride it takes to think that basically proves that you definitely would have sinned in the same way they did. Pride is the chief sin that leads to all others. It says, "I know better than God." Don't worry: you're not getting a raw deal.
@@BigNose-r2v You're giving a voice to entitlement. You don't always get to choose. You don't get to choose to be born. You don't get to choose who your parents are. You don't get to choose to be born as a human. You don't get to choose when it rains. You don't get to choose to be born in a time period of your choice. You are practically speaking for hyperindividualism. Do you think that is a good thing? If so, why?
28:20 Bible is collection of recounted and testimonies of human history relationships with god. Like the guy says Jesus words provide us a moral framework in what god laws are.
Belief in God is not an equation. you feel the presence of God at some point in UR Life or you don't? So far, imo, the main reason people choose belief in "biblical God" is FEAR of ETERNAL DAMNATION..
You have to just have faith to start with and then build evidence around what people are doing. What the Bible states about people rings true. It talks about sinful behaviour being praised towards the end times and how people will be more defiant towards the idea of a God. It's like people are also put into bad circumstances as much as animals.
Why do people believe that animals don't have souls? God teaches us that it is sinful to mistreated them Proverbs 12: 10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel. Further more, the word used to describe God breathing life into Adam is the same used when breathing life into the animals; that word is 'nephesh.' Which proves animals have souls. Additionally: Revelation 5: 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. So even the animals will be made perfect and will be singing glory to God and the Son of God. And it even says "every creature that IS in heaven." People wake up and read your KJV. I don't know what other Bibles are teaching but the scripture is clear. Creatures in heaven, on Earth, under Earth and those in the sea have souls. For if they didn't they WOULDN'T be in heaven. Praise be to God for such mercy and kindness. 🙌 Further more: Numbers 22: 28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? God allowed this donkey to speak. It spoke with concern of itself and wished to not be struck, as well as wanting to understand why it was being harmed. So animals have souls. They aren't human souls. They aren't made in the image of God so they aren't as valuable as ours, and yet are sufficient enough in His eyes to bring glory unto Him. 🙏
You might possibly be correct, but there's not enough information in those passages to say animals have a soul, by which we mean an immortal, non-physical distinct existence that would survive into eternity. God allowing an animal to speak is a one-off event (two-off, if you consider the serpent in Eden) which usually leads to bad theology if we take it further than what the Bible says happened and start making inferences. I will cite the example of Jesus at the triumphal entry into Jerusalem saying that if the people were silenced, the rocks themselves would cry out. By that, does it mean that a rock has a soul too? I do believe that regardless, we are to treat animals respectfully as they are part of God's creation, just like we don't litter or waste natural resources. Everything is a gift from God to be used appropriately and with thanksgiving to the one who gave it.
Yeah animals have souls and also I think that ever since man kind rebelled against God then the world became corrupt. This leading to murder ( lion eating zebra ) other stuff such as disease and more.
@@bonnie43ukif you have read the Bible before you already know the book of Genesis does not mention about dinosaurs but every creature that God made on the Earth even after and before the flood
The Bible does not say anything about animals not having souls, infact it sais we will live with them safely in Heaven. It also sais we are to take care of all animals
@Velocityxalty I'm going to say something off topic here but if people were to expose Satanism then maybe the truth qould be clearer. It makes sense that's why the world, people, human beings or the supernatural at this point is the way life is! Animals are affected as I believe they're pure I mean they're probs driven by something unseen too just as we are affected by mental illness or things like that, don't you think? Lol just exercising my freedom of speech a little here to maybe come to a Point where there is nothing unreasonable about an argument when you stir it up yk?! People are just very secure with their egos, possibly which centers for survival which is common sense.
I do think the young lady didnt have ill intentions but from my perspectives it does seem very ignorant in her questions with denying the reality that she was asking a morality question and when cliff's answers forced her to acknowledge her hypocrisy she then deflects to "oh dont apply this to my belief this only applies to christians" because she couldnt answer honestly without outing herself. I pray for her eyes to be turned away from that false security and torwards Christ
You've misunderstood the point and fallen for Cliffe's slight of hand and lazy generalisations about atheism. 1. Christians make the claim, god is all loving (atheists don't). 2. Atheists ask, ok so how do you explain animal suffering (especially before humans even existed with their 'sin'). 3. Cliffe says why would you care because you don't understand good and evil. CLIFFE DOESN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION. Whether the atheist cares or not or can explain good and evil or not is not the point. God being all good is a Christian claim for Christians to answer not atheists. What is Cliffe's answer to the question? Just for your information, atheists do care about good and evil we just don't believe in objective morality, but that all morality is subjective. I can elaborate further if you wish.
@seantaylor4095 That kind of just proves the point he's making though. Morality IS subjective in a atheist view yet none of them can live that out. The claim that God is all loving is based on the characteristics of Jesus who paid the penalty of death that we all deserve. Personally i believe animals being violent was a result of our sin, the reason God chose that I'm not knowledgeable enough for a explanation, but the core being the Characteristics of jesus give enough evidence for a all loving God even without an explicit explanation for animal suffering
@@ceramno9857 How can atheists NOT live out morality? That's nonsense! As an atheist I make moral decisions all the time based on my subjective perspective (and so do you). Do you need god or Jesus to know that murder is wrong? I don't. But it seems a Christian does because it is ONLY the teaching of Christ that determines for you that this is evil. For me I know it intuitively, I don't need it written down in a book. How can you believe for example that carnivorous dinosaurs causing suffering to other animals 100s of millions of years ago is because of the sins of man in the last few 1000 years? If you don't feel you have enough knowledge for an explanation then use that as a reason to challenge what you have been told and find out. Religion thrives on an absence of knowledge and curiosity.
“Animal suffering has nothing to do with human influence.” On the contrary it has everything to do with human existence. It’s our sinful ways that caused this nature and it serves as a reminder of those sinful ways. Animals kill animals because we sin. We have to kill animals (God gave us dominion over them) because we sin.
I didn't know that the dinosaurs only killed each other because of humans (who didn't exist for many millions of years later). That explains it then. 😂
She says she is looking for happiness. She is looking for peace though. She acts as if she has to know all before making a choice for God. Therefore she chooses. None of his examples of mass murder were Christians. They were athiests!😮
Just got on to YT and lo and behold another Cliffe episode uploaded. God is good!
Haha may you be blessed
I really wished everyone had the same politeness this young lady had while talking to Cliff. Praying she finds faith in Jesus as Lord of her life soon.
This was probably one of the best "debates" with a student. It was calm, and everyone was respectful and listened to one another. God bless her, the other students and of course Cliffe.
😊😊
The problem with her argument, specifically the “baby deer dying because of a disease” example that she gave is that she’s assuming that natural processes are evil and that a baby deer dying because of a lack of adaption to the environment is also evil.
Prophet Jesus(PBUH) audibillah I would never stoop so low to worship him.
Rare to see such humbleness on both sides. Pray for that girl that God opens her eyes soon. As once a blind man said, "One thing I know, that though I was blind, now I see."
Lord, thank You for exposing this young lady to this conversation. Bless her with the salvation Jesus provided for us all. Amen.
@@thomgrlisdebra she did not come across as being convinced. I agree, it was a good conversation though, one of the best i've seen in a while.
Bless her heart. She is so messed up in her thinking. There is a devil & he is very good at deceiving people.
Deception is someone trying to make someone believe something that is not true.
Maybe christians could clearly demonstrate how she is wrong?
@@patsywebb9136 How do you know the devil isn’t deceiving you?
The brilliance of Cliffe's approach to evangelism is that by making people aware of the inconsistencies and hypocrisy of their personal world views, he's also encouraging them to look at things differently while simultaneously getting them to ask THEMSELVES key questions about God, morality, purpose, and eternity. Make no mistake, God / Christ has left us with IMMENSE evidence for belief in Him, but first people often need to realize the absurd futility of their present world view before they become willing to consider another. I would further challenge people by asking them if they could know the truth about God and Christ, would they truly WANT to know it? If not, WHY not? As well, ask them, just as a personal experiment, that if they are an open-minded person, have they ever ASKED God to reveal Himself to them? Because if they do so sincerely, He WILL do it! And no one needs to know of, what for you, may initially seem just a private experiment. *As why would someone not be willing to at least do THAT - if they are really open-minded and sincerely want to know the truth of the matter about God?*
I've openly asked God to reveal himself to me many times, he did not do it, probably because he does not exist.
2:38 it’s actually insane how many people claim to be concerned about animal suffering yet use products made from their bodily fluids, wear clothes made of their skins, and eat them after someone else has actually done the dirty work.
You might have missed the point
@@CJBlake-ym6kyyeah the argument was more like why do animals get diseases
@@Benji_808 exactly, patrick05Morgan is just trying to cause division. Man up and understand the arguments.
It's not about animals this question was an effort aimed to understand God's perspective regarding this particular issue related to justice and morality
vegan like to that
If there is no God, evil doesn't exist, good doesn't exist, bad doesn't exist - everything is merely your relative, subjective opinion and everything simply just "is".
It all exists, its just not objective and even if you have god, its still not objective.
That is what is known as an assertion Asserted with no evidence dismissed same way
@@etherealblacketernal2889 Bro WHAT 😂 If you have God is definitely objective.
@@EchoGuzman Its not objective if god is exempt. And god has already broken every law he set. So its either not objective or god is a hypocrite. You pick.
@@EchoGuzmanyou have to understand the mental deficiencies of your average internet atheist. They've heard this trope that morals are subjective even if God is the source.
That's obviously ridiculous and they've never given it any real thought.
I could say that the rules of chess are subjective but I can't just move the pieces how ever I want.
They confuse the inventor of chess with the player of chess and then pretending they have the same relationship with the game. They are quite ridiculous.
"Why would a loving God allow....."
This line of questioning from atheists is so tiresome. Ultimately it leads to their belief that God should be actively intervening in everything, thus negating free will. Atheists hate God and concepts of God, but they also seem to hate free will even more.
They also hate it when they read about him intervening. It’s not a belief thing or lack of evidence. It’s a pathetic immature ego and pride that they can’t get past to actually learn about who God is and in their emotions they say there is no God. God is going to destroy all evil, even petty thievery. Only way to escape the judgement and punishment is to put your faith in Jesus, if you don’t then you’re completely guilty in the eyes of a perfect God.
Most people cannot think for themselves. They are no more than NPCS so they truly believe god should be controlling their every actions.
@@Ronwjr it is true that I often hear atheists complain when God intervenes. They often point to when the Israelites drove the Canaanites out of the land of Canaan, calling it "genocide." When you ask, "What ought God to have done with people who for 400 years practiced infanticide, bestiality, and roamed around killing other weaker people than themselves?" He brought judgment on them.
A group Dr. Phil therapy session wasn't going to cut it. The Canaanites did evil and were only getting worse as time went on, and God knew that if Canaanite civilization was allowed to continue, it was quite clear what would happen: they'd corrupt Israel into doing the exact same kind of evil things. And no surprise: that's exactly what happened when they failed to drive them out completely.
@@sidwhiting665 so God COULD have nipped their horrific actions in the bud, but, he allowed it to continue, for 400 years. Think about that for a minute.
I have had a similar outlook when it comes to atheist. They always seem to hate free will, they want a world of robots. I also believe it’s due to them ultimately not really loving life because they are tired of it, and prefer a world where they do not want to perform but be performed for, or as others say it, accountability.
Not laughing at the first girl, dont wana insult her or anybody but youre gonna rest a portion of your beliefs on what animals go through and feel? Like im puzzled by that. Perplexed even
Yes? Animal abuse and suffering is way too common.
Keep playing PlayStation kid
Oh my gosh, sound the alarms, someone has empathy for individuals of other species.
There’s also far far far more wild animals and nonhuman animals on this planet than us. Clearly you cannot ignore this if you think there’s an all loving, perfect God. He’s done this, right? He designed these animals to feel extreme pain, similar to us, and then creates the evil and suffering for almost every wild animal to go through at some point? Makes no sense.
@@jk.9300How do you define “suffering”
@@Colddirectorhow do you define “”suffering” ?
I think that first girl will eventually find the truth. She seems to be sincere in her intellectual drive
😂she is not sincere ..she is lieng actions speak more than words.. because she said there os no convincing evidence for Bible jesus . 😊
She already found it.
@@vladtheemailer3223 if you're referring to atheism, respectfully disagree
@@PhoneyLokiwe just got to pray for her that she will know the truth in Jesus name
Your debates warms my soul. I really enjoy you sharing the message
The fact that these young people have come to converse and question means they are seeking truth and are open to answers
Grew up atheist even bashed on Christians and now later in my life I can’t forgive myself for what I put these people through I found God and I pray everyday day for a forgiveness that I don’t deserve
It’s ok brother, We’d rather welcome a brother into the faith and into our family than keep a grudge and push them away ❤️❤️ you are Forgiven my friend Christ loves you
You were dead and now you are alive. Hallelujah brother.
Lost sheep is found.
Amen all glory to christ the king.
I bet you weren't nearly as guilty as Paul and he's a saint
A truly repentant heart is forgiven in the sight of the Lord. Feelings of guilt are normal, its why we ask for God's forgiveness. But rest assured, brother, He has forgiven you and will not hold those things against you.
Jeremiah 31:34 "I will forgive their iniquities and I will remember their sins no more"
Isaiah 43:25 "I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake and I will not remember your sins"
Psalm 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far does He remove our transgressions from us"
Stop holding things against yourself. God isn't. You've asked Him to forgive your sins and He has done so. Let go and keep growing in the spirit ❤
I bet you were never an atheist and don't really know what an atheist is.
every praise is to our God, every word of worship with one accord, every praise, every praise is to our God
Happy 2025, Cliffe and Stuart! Keep up the great work!
Good morning everyone! 😊❤
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. --Zechariah 12:10
The chef is here
The best conversasion of 2024
The “Why would a loving God …” question is so tired. 😅😅
And the “if there is no god __ doesn’t exist” answer is so tired😅
@ nah not so much. The question is surface level, elementary logic. The answer has a deeper logical foundation.
The question : wHy GoD sO mEaN iF he luVz us??
The answer : God defines true love therefore your basis of what is loving is nonexistent if God doesn’t exist. Don’t believe me? Where do your morals come from and why are they “good”?
@@maurice2014 I don’t believe you, because regardless of where I get my morals that doesn’t require a God. Why do animals show emotions/empathy if they aren’t made in gods image (elephants especially)? I personally get my own morals from desire (do I want to get arrested?/will this help me?) here’s a real “why would a loving God” question since you think you’ve mastered the craft. Why would a loving God have infinite punishment for a finite crime (in which HE created the person likely to commit crimes) and better yet if he truly is outside of time he would’ve seen this coming and stopped before hand, but he chose to go ahead and do it to fulfill his own loneliness? So 20 get saved and 80% suffer so god can have worshippers? Doesn’t seem very logical
@ you literally wrote a paragraph essentially saying the same exact thing as the question. Good job. 👏🏾 why doesn’t utopia exist? would’ve been a better reconstruction of the question in my opinion. By the way, I would call pointing out a weak logical question mastering a craft.. 😂
@ fickle surface level logic in abundance here
Addressing her point about the existence of multiple religions and the tendency of people to believe in them because they are raised in those traditions, one might ask which religion, since its inception, appears to be the most successful-both morally and otherwise-when we look back at history today.
The bible says animals do have souls (Psalm 74:19). In the beginning, God made creation very good (Genesis 1:31). However, sin entered the world through Adam & Eve's sin, and consequently, the creation was cursed and as a consequence suffering came into the world. But bear in mind, no one has suffered more than the Son of God, Jesus Christ, in order to suffer the penalty for the sin of the world. The bible teaches that one day soon, this curse will be lifted when the Lord comes back to reign over the earth. This young lady seems to have arrived at some wrong conclusions about God and the Bible, and also sits on moral judgment on God for the fact that animals suffer, which she does from a lack of understanding of the Bible. I hope she continues to read it and sincerely pray for God's help to understand it.
If animals cannot sin, then they are favored. But man was made in God's image, not animals. So where do you get this idea that animals have souls? Is there ant colonies in heaven mucking up the grass?
I truly appreciate your response, Frank
Faith is believing in something you can't see or touch. Having faith in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit brings so much comfort. And whenever you want to, you can talk to them and they listen. I think Cliffe should have brought that up.
Hallelujah!!! I’m favored and blessed with $60,000 every week! Now I can afford anything and also support the work of God and the church.
Oh really? Tell me more!
This is what Melissa Jonas Richard does, she has changed my life.
After raising up to 60k trading with her, I bought a new house and car here in the US and also paid for my son’s (Oscar) surgery. Glory to God.shalom.
I know Melissa Jonas Richard, and I have also had success...
Absolutely! I have heard stories of people who started with little or no knowledge but managed to emerge victorious thanks to Melissa Jonas Richard.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE. May 2025 be good to you. I saw this quote this morning from Stanley Kubrick, if you're an atheist, i think it's quite uplifting. "The most terrifying fact about the Universe is not that it's hostile, but that it is indifferent. But if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light". S Kubrick.
I have never seen Cliffe win a debate. His whole premise is “you can’t have opinion on what’s right or wrong because you don’t believe in God.”
And where do you get your information? Did rocks inform you? Did some invisible magical knowledge from the universe somehow download it's self into your DNA? You "haven't seen" Cliff win a debate because you can't comprehend the debates. The subject matter is simply above your cognitive ability - in the same way that a cat "hasn't seen Cliff win a debate" - It just cannot be comprehended by the lower formed brain.
He's never said that a single time. In fact, he's said exactly the opposite.
@@CelticSpiritsCoven Cliffe changes the subject and gets angry every time he loses a debate, it's a familiar pattern seen in most of his videos with half-competent adversaries. Girl asks - how does Christianity explain animal suffering, Cliffe gets angry and says - but you think animal suffering is fine because you don't care about good and evil. Say it angrily enough and people will forget you didn't answer the question.
@@seantaylor4095 Cliff only loses, in your opinion, because he's not in your cult religion. Now, we cannot even take you seriously. Stop wasting our time by speaking on these subjects you can't comprehend.
@@CelticSpiritsCoven What cult religion do you think I belong to? I'm an atheist, which in case you haven't looked it up is not a cult or a religion. Watch any Cliffe debate and the pattern is the same. If he's losing an argument, he gets angry, avoids the question and then shifts the burden of proof on to more comfortable territory. A little bit like your weak attempt to close me down by not addressing the point I made, making an unsubstantiated claim, followed by an insult.
I'd happily debate you on any of this, but scratch beneath the surface of your statements and there's nothing there.
12:08 that very question is what led me to Jesus.
God bless you Cliffe!
Can’t wait to meet this guy in the kingdom !!
I'm so proud of this young woman for holding her own in this conversation. bravo!
what cliffe doesn't seem to understand is that just because someone rejects jesus does not mean they have to have a better alternative. cliffe claims to have found the answer to the meaning of life. the young woman rejects it. if she does not have a better explanation, that does not make cliffe's claim true by default. it is perfectly possible to live your every day life without having figured out the answers to life's most difficult questions, and to suggest otherwise is the true intellectual dishonesty.
If one doesn't have an alternative plausible metaphysic that's even be able to provide epistemic justification then anything they say is worthless and should be ignored.
@@autisticphaglosophy7128 why?
@@autisticphaglosophy7128
Don’t do bad things to others
You going to ignore that unless I have a subjective to your opinion plausible metaphysical true justification for that statement
Who’s the Christian relativist now ?
Hahahaha 😂😂😂
@@Colddirector
Because he says so
😂😂😂😂
@@autisticphaglosophy7128 an 'alternative plausible metaphysic' is not required to dismiss extraordinary claims
i wish there was a follow up with some of these people years later lol
Thank you Cliffe
Morning Knechtle gang! God bless you all
18:07 his argument is that we will never “evolve” the evil out of our hearts.
He’s right
That's good - all the technology and increased knowledge can't erase sin and evil ,more power to you - ONLY Jesus death and resurrection can neutralize sin
Cliff please be gentle with this woman... She is obviously seeking. It's ok to ask her hard questions but don't be angry when she obviously hasn't thought through things and is put on spot regarding what she is living for. Sometimes your confrontive way of talking can make the other person panic and get pushed too hard. Say something like, take your time, I know this may be something you haven't thought too much about. Let's work together on this. That would be grace. Thanks and love your videos as always!
"How could a loving God ..."
God doesn't give us everything we want. He simply gave us the first thing we wanted.
ACDC kid was cooking
No he wasn’t he kept interrupting
Lord please grant this precious young lady direction, wisdom, purpose and perseverance to pursue truth.
I don't think Cliffe understood the girl's point about animal suffering. If God does not exist and evolution is true it's just what happens, but if Christianity is true then Christians need to explain it or somehow excuse it, but he failed to do that. He thought she was infuriated by animal suffering but she wasn't, she was simply asking him to explain it from the Christian point of view.
exactly right Kendal, she explained it very well, but Cliffe couldn't seem to grasp what she was actually pointing out.
and he explained it no? we're born into a cursed world (cus of Adam and Eve), so yea not limited to animals but humans suffer along with them
Not much to explain. The world has been broken since the fall and everything suffers because of it. Super basic part of Christianity.
@@pcdeltalink036 That's the 'usual' apologist's explanation but I still struggle with the concept of pain. Pain is the warning system that prevents us from damaging our bodies. So do you think we'll experience pain in our resurrected bodies, and if not, how will we be prevented from damaging them?
@@KendalSmithy And no, there will be no pain. Rev 21:4 "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Does pastor Cliffe have a live stream for his Sunday service?
You know that your argument is cooked when Cliff goes into his signature stance😂
It’s so crazy and funny to see how little people know
That's christianity for you.
I don't think she has made as much of a study of Christianity as she claims. She has a superficial understanding of Christian doctrine of Law and Gospel. Everyone has a 'god': it's whatever you spend most of your time, money, and effort on. She says she likes to do things that make her happy. So.... she lives for self-pleasure. That is her god. Not an uncommon one either among non-Christians.
That said, she's young and seems willing to engage. So hopefully her chat with Cliff with lead to further questioning of her own premises and whether or not she can trust her god.
She has seen the truth.
she doesn't just live for self pleasure, she said it herself, she wants everyone to live a happy life.
@@bonnie43uk Do we just take people at their word when they say such? Do we even know what they really mean when they say that? Would you believe a criminal if they said that?
@@sidwhiting665 I'd add that everyone has a religion, even if it's not an official one.
To the girl who is on the quest for truth, read all the red text in the Bible, which are Jesus's words. Try to find fault in them. You will have to try real hard to see there isn't any. So if there is only truth in Jesus's words, maybe you can find more by practicing what he taught. Then you will know God. God can't exist to you, until you give Him a chance to. God bless you
How does cliff know the 20th century was the bloodiest? Does he know how many Aztecs died? How bout Pueblos? How many Chinese died during 1st emperor? How many died during Punich Wars?
Yes, less.
Likely through historical and archeological evidence. Plus, by sheer numbers, the 20th was the deadliest with 1) Stalin's purge, 2) Lenin, 3) Mao, 4) Hitler, 5) Idi Amin, 6) Khmer Rouge.
One student tried to counter this argument once by saying "Well, that doesn't count because there simply were more people in the 20th than in the 11th Century." That argument didn't go well.
@@nabukwe there are more people in the 20th century and industrial means of (dodging UA-cam censors) making them not alive.
@@SorryImSam prove it.
@nabukwe there is no historical or archeological evidence that tracked death numbers in ancient times. And that's just the civilizations we have some form of written history of.
Fact god wiped out entire planet at one point if bible is true would seem to be pretty high numbers.
Cliff is so wise
Cliffe isn't wise, but he is clever at avoiding difficult questions. The question was how does Christianity explain animal suffering and he turns it into atheists have no concept of good and bad so why would you care? What kind of an answer is that? When he comes up against someone half intelligent he gets angry to retain control of the debate.
Cliffe constantly asks this question in all his video's "What are you living for?, and what's the evidence that what you're living for is true"? I'll be happy to answer that as a non believer, I don't think we're born into this world with a specific purpose, i can't ever recall my parents saying to me "Tom, you're purpose in life is . . . " When I was a child, I had no concept of a specific purpose, but my parents taught me right from wrong, that is always a good grounding for life, rewards and punishments are common for all kids. To answer the question directly, i live for the joy of living, there is much to enjoy in life, the evidence for that is all around me, I feel very fortunate to be alive and to be able to enjoy life in all it's many forms 🙂No God is required as far as i can see.
With this answer, we’re brought back to moral relativism which cannot be lived out. Hitler could also say that he was living for the joy of living.
@@jovindream He could indeed say that my friend, I'm not a moral relativist who believes it's ok for others to commit horrific crimes, I don't know anyone who is. I base my morals on whether actions are beneficial or harmful to myself and others, so, clearly, doing what the German leader did was mightily harmful to millions of people. What is your purpose in life then jovindream, and how old were you when you found out your purpose?
The amount of times you've commented on Cliffe's videos, which is honestly too many to count, leads me to believe that you're struggling with life and your repeated opposition to what he says is your way of coping with the suffering you're going through. You don't have to keep wasting your life away doing this. He will always have open arms for you the moment you let go of your pride. God bless.
@@xelvania1581 I'm certainly not struggling in life xelvania, my life is very good. I thank my lucky stars everyday for the life I have. Certainly I enjoy these conversations and like to hear other opinions, this is a subject that I have given a lot of thought to over the years, and it's one that is close to my heart as a former Christian, it most certainly is not a waste of my time. Is my potential future a concern for you once I am dead?
A very interesting response.
So your parents taught you what, in their opinion, is right and wrong. The question raised is, "Were your parents always correct?"
You live for the joy of living. Okay.... so tomorrow you contract an incurable illness that debilitates you and causes a lot of pain but isn't lethal. It just nasty enough to make it impossible to enjoy the top 20 pleasures in your life and cuts down by 80% the remaining pleasures. Does you life still have a purpose since living is no longer a joy?
Let's pretend for a moment you were not born in 1st world society based on a Judeo-Christian worldview within the past 200 years. Rather, you were born in a war torn country ruled by thuggish gangs, like Somalia or somewhere in sub-Sahara Africa. You are poor. You lack education. People abuse you for their own personal amusement. Your teeth fell out by your mid-20s from lack of nutrition as a child. You starve 1 out of every 3 days. Perhaps you were raped by people who are in powerful positions. Where is justice? Where is hope? As Nietzsche said, (paraphrase) "Life is meaningless..... why bother?"
It's interesting to me that Christianity has always flourished the most where times are the toughest. It spread across the Roman empire for three centuries while Christians were persecuted and knew they needed God to rely on. Today, it flourishes in places where it is officially banned (China, the Middle East, Africa), and it languishes in places where it's been readily accepted, such as Europe and North America.
Given a comfortable, 1st-world lifestyle, it's easy to see why many people think God is not required. Give it time. Life will catch up and get nasty at some point. Atheism is hollow to the core when it comes to suffering and injustice.
People talk about the Love of God and that is PART of who he is, but what about his ANGER, JEALOUSY etc etc etc...only tells me that THEY have NOT READ THE SCRIPTURES...Read the Scriptures people...GEEZ !!!
That first girl has not looked for truth at all. Based on her questions she hasn’t even scratched the surface of what can be learned. She asked very simply basic questions that any Christian should be able to dismantle. Nothing ground breaking here even though she really thinks it is.
Did jesus tell you about her😂😂
It doesn’t matter if an atheist knows what the convincing evidence would be. What matters is that an omniscient god knows exactly what it would take to convince a particular atheist in the existence of that god.
Yes indeed, that young girl spoke a lot of sense to me, in the atheistic world, it makes sense that we happen to live on a planet that was not specifically designed for mankind, hence all the animal predation, which from our perspective seems horrific eg: to see a lion eat a baby zebra while it's still alive, and to hear the screams of the zebra as it's being eaten, most of us would find that hard to watch. The sheer amount of suffering in the animal world alone is off the scale, but atheism can explain it from a naturalistic world. The problem of suffering from a Christian perspective has no logical answer as i see it.
God himself came down as flesh, and He suffered a lot.
@@Max-cq7ni The young lady was talking specifically about the horrific suffering of millions of sentient animals on the planet who get eaten alive on a daily basis. With regard to Jesus's crucifixion, wasn't that God's whole plan, for his son to suffer? They call it vicarious redemption.
@bonnie43uk Jesus took on our sins. The wages of sin are death. Someone has to be punished for our sins for justice. If you were convicted of a crime, you wouldn't get off until someone pays the fine/bail or did the time.
@@Max-cq7ni Any crimes or misdemeanours are my concern Max, it's down to me to make amends to the person I wronged, and it's down to that person whether or not he/she wants to forgive me. If you committed a crime, would it be right/moral if someone chose to go to prison on your behalf?
There is no sense if there is no god, your thoughts are products of chemicals reacting, no real truth, if there is no god. I think you know that.
cliff please make a subtitle, some of this auto subtitle is not correct.
just for us that not speak english to understand it well
NGL she's soo frickin' cute. I really hope she can meet Jesus soon and worship Him. God bless her and all the students
Even creation waits for the day of redemption. I’m not saying every individual animal that existed will be in heaven, but it’s possible
It certainly is possible. You're right.
The truth never needs apologists....let that sink in.
I agree, truth is truth regardless, but I think a lot of people don’t know what truth is
Yes, so why did you just make that statement? Is it not a defense for truth? Apologetics is defense of the truth, anytime we say " this is true" is giving an Apologetic, I don't know how to spell it in the actual Greek word.
@@calebisbuff2869 Truth is obvious, its logical and makes sense....needs no defense.
@@dentonhahn2907 I'm not asserting any kind of truth. But its even worse when an apologist needs an apologist (you).
@MG-ot2yr oh come on! Why comment then? Do think your statement was true? Do you correct lies? Or believe them? Every time you say "good" or "bad" you are being an apologists.
Keith say's, faith is from evidence of our blessings, therefore without blessings then no faith, and he says it's fooolish to believe without evidence
Evolution is a fact
Oh man I love this verse. It's from the gospel of EB(Evolutionary Biology). I believe it's from the book of Speciation.
*Speciation **3:14*
_"And thus, from one lineage came two, diverging unto their own paths."_
@@PureLuck719 it’s so bizarre when you guys call evolution a religion as an insult. Like… are you guys trying to insult yourself or something?
Ever notice how quickly their argument falls apart as soon as he gives the actual words of Jesus Christ?
He didn't do anything.
@@vladtheemailer3223 You didn't understand anything.
The illusion is the non living elements could arrange themselves into life.
The illusion is you post honest statements
@therick363 Refute this particular statement. Nuh uh isn't near enough satisfactory. 20 years from now, even the day your natural death takes place. There's more than enough experimental evidence now to prove abiogenesis isn't possible. You guys can't even make a moderate protein form in a reasonable simulation of a prebiotic world. There's a reason you're scared to read The Stairway to Life: An Origin of Life Realty Check by Tan and Stadler.
@therick363 Be more than happy for you to reference anyone who can prove your delusion that non living matter arranged itself into a cell capable of evolving. Or even a single protein or gene. The simplest cell has 473 genes coding for the replication of 42 million proteins. But a warm little pond exposed to all 98 elements managed?
@therick363 The illusion is yt algorithm is fair, unbiased. There is no reason for the newest and top comment feature other than suppressing the truth.
@ completely dodging what I said
how can she have hope for the future, when her believes are total despair?
I love how Cliffe stands before he’s about to go in on his point lol. Solid man with solid insight and lowkey very funny.
For anyone that grew up “religious” if you are doubting try looking at apologetics instead of preaching. Frank turek is one of the best
In the bible animals go to heaven and they do have souls. What is she talking about?
Cliff is great, but in this case he failed to communicate a bit more directly. He’s always been good at steering people’s minds, so they can come up to a conclusion on their own. Which is the best way - the realization moment. But sometimes you need to really lay it all out straight. The Word of God is perfect! It opens hearts and steers souls like nothing else. Just read the Gospel. Let it work.
Excellent idea, but it just doesn't work at times. I've seen open air evangelists / apologists (sometimes just a few 100 yards away from Cliffe) who simply read the Gospels and they typically had an audience of zero. Cliffe, on the other hand, typically has audiences of hundreds of students. This might be the reason Jesus spoke in parables and stories because they were far more memorable and make-you-think-able (if that's a word) rather than simply reading the Torah at people.
Isaiah 40:31 ESV
[31] but they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.
Repent and turn to Jesus and remember he always loves you!❤
Awesome… you must meet Scott Hahn
That's interesting, that the first young lady thought of animal suffering, before than human suffering
It's honestly so scary it was scary
If people like her would spend as much time asking God into their life as they do seeking evidence to disprove God…
Dudes talking like he actually knows, nobody knows it's all speculation dressed up as " I know "
Yes; she misunderstood the concept of atheism, which is the rejection of the question of "is there a god." Life has a purpose and meaning without a god. Agnosticism does not mean that you don't know if a person "is there" or something is "an illusion." I'm not sure why people think that if you don't believe in god then you have no moral compass. Jesus is a "dirty-rotten sinner?" Now I'm confused... I thought he was without sin?
Honey wake up, another cliffe video dropped
My only issue is she said Christianity teaches animals don’t have souls. That’s false Christianity says nothing about animal souls.
God is real. The Trinity is True.
Yes and yes
Please, give me an answer! My wife and I sadly lost our first daughter during the pregnancy. I believe that she is safely in our Lord's Kingdom in heaven but what does the bible say about this? After all she hasn't had the chance to folow Jesus. I know He knows us even before we were in the whomp but we've inherented sin. So how does the go according to the Bible? Excuse my English it is not my first language.
Matthew 19:14
“but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
2 Samuel 12:23
New International Version
“23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”
From what I understand, Children go to heaven automatically. Even King Daniel was convinced of this. I pray the Lord brings peace upon your heart in this time I’m so sorry for your Loss much love from a brother in Christ ❤️❤️❤️❤️
A biblical worldview !
The point is: there's no room for excuses in Christianity. You can't just decide to he a trans person or go and steal off a person.....because if you follow the Lord then you know you can't, but you won't anyone, because I follow the commandments.
@@olliepriddey1161 there is no room for excuses… unless you’re a pastor caught abusing. then you can just say the devil made you do it
Yes to be a true Christian of God is to have your heart right with him and practice your relationship with Jesus Christ and follow the teachings that he taught us be more like him AKA practicing righteousness instead of sin
I believe she really wants someone to prove her wrong because she truly wants to believe in God.
Oh Living God grant her guidance and wisdom in to understanding the truth of the Living God through your Son Jesus Christ
Jesus is LORD! Repent and believe. Submit, follow and love as you have been loved by Jesus. ❤
i was just wondering about God commandment. is it important to teach Gods word, and do them, or is it more important to teach God words but not do them? I know it's a rhetorical question, because to teach about God and not do his laws is defeating God purpose don't you think. Are the 10 commandment's still relevant today?
"Are the 10 commandment's still relevant today?"
Yes, absolutely. As it is written, "Not one iota (the tiniest part) of the Law will pass away until everything is fulfilled." - Jesus
- Honor your parents.
- Do not murder.
- Do not steal.
- Do not sinfully desire property that belongs to someone else.
- Do not have sexual relations with another person's spouse or with someone to whom you aren't married.
- Do not lie about or defame another person.
- Honor, trust, love, hold in awe, and worship God alone with all your being.
All of these still apply today and will until the Last Day when the world is made new and God's people are perfected to where the Law is no longer needed, because we will do all of those things perfectly and be utterly without sin.
Noah ark could be a great point to mention there to show God's mercy toward animals and also animals live and enjoy life it isn't all about suffering and killing such as hunter and prey.
Some animals or animal like beings are mentioned to be in heaven and God will fix problems of wild life in new earth and new heaven.
I think you fail to understand the point Job where God allowed Job to suffer. Sure, he did not sin. God allowed the accuser to test Job's righteousness toward God. Job's message literally says that things just "are" (or "is") because God wishes to. "He snatches away; who can stop him? Who will say to him, ‘What are you doing?’" (Job 9:12) "Then there came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and they ate bread with him in his house; they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him; and each of them gave him a piece of money and a gold ring." (Job 42:11)
She looks like Felicity Jones. Appreciate her love for innocent animals.
Natural Selection doesn't care about innocent animals. Or the weak animals.
Why don’t we go after the people who do evil instead of blaming God who gave us free will .
She painted herself into an intellectual corner when she finally got around to thinking of HERSELF as the center of her own universe. That sounds like an incredibly lonely place to be.
she comes across as a very thoughtful and honest young lady to me. Cliffe is a seasoned Christian apologist, so he would have pre set answers to any objections she had, she did very well to put her points across. Cliffe says he believes in evolution, yet he doesn't seem aware of how that process works. You cannot have evolution and "the fall of man", those 2 things are incompatible.
We can only be justified by the BLOOD of CHRIST, the Lamb of GOD, free given by the Father to take away the sin of the world. For it is only by His Pure Blood shed on the Heavenly Mercy Seat, that we obtain the Pardon of GOD.
Have faith in the REDEEMER BLOOD OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST before the RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH establishes a new paradigm, which will force you to die as a beheaded martyr for CHRIST for your salvation.
BE BLESSED ALL
A person suffered and dies in a car crash, therefore the car made itself? That strongly seems to be emotion driven thinking.
I will say one thing, why are we born into an unfair world for something that happened long ago?
Secondly, did we choose to be born into this world or were we forced here?
I'm an atheist, and most often the response I hear is that God HAD to punish the sins of the first man and women, and since he's the supreme being, can choose whatever punish he sees fit. And now that we live in this "fallen world" we are driven to wickedness and sin. This is our fault, and we all deserve eternal torment for it.
So essentially even though God intentionally cursed us to have wicked souls and an unchangeable, sinful nature, it is still somehow *our* fault.
@@PureLuck719 I agree with this. It doesn’t justify all the pain and suffering that we’ve had since the supposed “first man and woman” sinned.
I also think that we are forced to be here because no one would choose to be born into an unfair world that is full of pain and suffering.
Evil has to be punished.
Humans do evil, not God.
Life is a gift if there's a God that communicated you that you have value, if u don't, life is nonsense.
We cursed ourselves, not God.
So what you're saying, in essence, is if you'd been born like Adam and Eve into a perfect world, you would never have sinned and therefore somehow God is not being fair by not creating you as a perfect person in a perfect world? You didn't "get a fair chance?"
Man... the level of pride it takes to think that basically proves that you definitely would have sinned in the same way they did. Pride is the chief sin that leads to all others. It says, "I know better than God." Don't worry: you're not getting a raw deal.
@@BigNose-r2v You're giving a voice to entitlement. You don't always get to choose. You don't get to choose to be born. You don't get to choose who your parents are. You don't get to choose to be born as a human. You don't get to choose when it rains. You don't get to choose to be born in a time period of your choice. You are practically speaking for hyperindividualism. Do you think that is a good thing? If so, why?
28:20 Bible is collection of recounted and testimonies of human history relationships with god. Like the guy says Jesus words provide us a moral framework in what god laws are.
that's right, such as zero tolerance for remarriage after divorce (mark 10:11 & luke 16:18)
@@lostodon don’t forget literal thoughtcrimes (making lustfful thoughts a sin)
@@lostodon so you guys don’t see it as morally wrong?
Belief in God is not an equation. you feel the presence of God at some point in UR Life or you don't? So far, imo, the main reason people choose belief in "biblical God" is FEAR of ETERNAL DAMNATION..
So why do Christians keep banging on about evidence when it's faith that's at the heart of it?
Uh oh. Here we go with Annie Dillard's "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"
I pray the first girl comes to Jesus ❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏✝️✝️✝️✝️😇😇😇😇😇
You have to just have faith to start with and then build evidence around what people are doing. What the Bible states about people rings true. It talks about sinful behaviour being praised towards the end times and how people will be more defiant towards the idea of a God.
It's like people are also put into bad circumstances as much as animals.
who gets to say what's sinful and what is not sinful?
@bonnie43uk God does
@@olliepriddey1161 so what was Gods ruling on people that are accused of witchcraft back in the day?
@@olliepriddey1161 sure funny that the only words we have from god were written by men. 🤔
@@Colddirector yes indeed, no women and no God.
Why do people believe that animals don't have souls? God teaches us that it is sinful to mistreated them
Proverbs 12:
10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
Further more, the word used to describe God breathing life into Adam is the same used when breathing life into the animals; that word is 'nephesh.' Which proves animals have souls.
Additionally:
Revelation 5:
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
So even the animals will be made perfect and will be singing glory to God and the Son of God. And it even says "every creature that IS in heaven." People wake up and read your KJV. I don't know what other Bibles are teaching but the scripture is clear. Creatures in heaven, on Earth, under Earth and those in the sea have souls. For if they didn't they WOULDN'T be in heaven. Praise be to God for such mercy and kindness. 🙌
Further more:
Numbers 22:
28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
God allowed this donkey to speak. It spoke with concern of itself and wished to not be struck, as well as wanting to understand why it was being harmed. So animals have souls. They aren't human souls. They aren't made in the image of God so they aren't as valuable as ours, and yet are sufficient enough in His eyes to bring glory unto Him. 🙏
Is God ok with predation?
You might possibly be correct, but there's not enough information in those passages to say animals have a soul, by which we mean an immortal, non-physical distinct existence that would survive into eternity. God allowing an animal to speak is a one-off event (two-off, if you consider the serpent in Eden) which usually leads to bad theology if we take it further than what the Bible says happened and start making inferences.
I will cite the example of Jesus at the triumphal entry into Jerusalem saying that if the people were silenced, the rocks themselves would cry out. By that, does it mean that a rock has a soul too?
I do believe that regardless, we are to treat animals respectfully as they are part of God's creation, just like we don't litter or waste natural resources. Everything is a gift from God to be used appropriately and with thanksgiving to the one who gave it.
Yeah animals have souls and also I think that ever since man kind rebelled against God then the world became corrupt. This leading to murder ( lion eating zebra ) other stuff such as disease and more.
@@Tterb22 so what about long before man was here, what about dinosaurs roaming the earth millions of years before mankind.
@@bonnie43ukif you have read the Bible before you already know the book of Genesis does not mention about dinosaurs but every creature that God made on the Earth even after and before the flood
The Bible does not say anything about animals not having souls, infact it sais we will live with them safely in Heaven. It also sais we are to take care of all animals
What are the verses? 😊
@@_karenamador_I still don’t see the verses😂
@Velocityxalty I'm going to say something off topic here but if people were to expose Satanism then maybe the truth qould be clearer. It makes sense that's why the world, people, human beings or the supernatural at this point is the way life is! Animals are affected as I believe they're pure I mean they're probs driven by something unseen too just as we are affected by mental illness or things like that, don't you think? Lol just exercising my freedom of speech a little here to maybe come to a Point where there is nothing unreasonable about an argument when you stir it up yk?! People are just very secure with their egos, possibly which centers for survival which is common sense.
@Velocityxalty excuse my lack of grammar and punctuations lol im a sloth sometimes ill admit
I do think the young lady didnt have ill intentions but from my perspectives it does seem very ignorant in her questions with denying the reality that she was asking a morality question and when cliff's answers forced her to acknowledge her hypocrisy she then deflects to "oh dont apply this to my belief this only applies to christians" because she couldnt answer honestly without outing herself. I pray for her eyes to be turned away from that false security and torwards Christ
You've misunderstood the point and fallen for Cliffe's slight of hand and lazy generalisations about atheism.
1. Christians make the claim, god is all loving (atheists don't). 2. Atheists ask, ok so how do you explain animal suffering (especially before humans even existed with their 'sin'). 3. Cliffe says why would you care because you don't understand good and evil. CLIFFE DOESN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION. Whether the atheist cares or not or can explain good and evil or not is not the point. God being all good is a Christian claim for Christians to answer not atheists. What is Cliffe's answer to the question?
Just for your information, atheists do care about good and evil we just don't believe in objective morality, but that all morality is subjective. I can elaborate further if you wish.
@seantaylor4095 That kind of just proves the point he's making though. Morality IS subjective in a atheist view yet none of them can live that out. The claim that God is all loving is based on the characteristics of Jesus who paid the penalty of death that we all deserve. Personally i believe animals being violent was a result of our sin, the reason God chose that I'm not knowledgeable enough for a explanation, but the core being the Characteristics of jesus give enough evidence for a all loving God even without an explicit explanation for animal suffering
@@ceramno9857 How can atheists NOT live out morality? That's nonsense! As an atheist I make moral decisions all the time based on my subjective perspective (and so do you). Do you need god or Jesus to know that murder is wrong? I don't. But it seems a Christian does because it is ONLY the teaching of Christ that determines for you that this is evil. For me I know it intuitively, I don't need it written down in a book.
How can you believe for example that carnivorous dinosaurs causing suffering to other animals 100s of millions of years ago is because of the sins of man in the last few 1000 years? If you don't feel you have enough knowledge for an explanation then use that as a reason to challenge what you have been told and find out. Religion thrives on an absence of knowledge and curiosity.
“Animal suffering has nothing to do with human influence.” On the contrary it has everything to do with human existence. It’s our sinful ways that caused this nature and it serves as a reminder of those sinful ways.
Animals kill animals because we sin. We have to kill animals (God gave us dominion over them) because we sin.
I didn't know that the dinosaurs only killed each other because of humans (who didn't exist for many millions of years later). That explains it then. 😂
Until God explains why his creation is faulty there will always be doubt about Gods goodness
It's gotta be the devil tho, sneaky 🐍
I even got a sun burn from watchin the suns reflection from their skin
She says she is looking for happiness.
She is looking for peace though.
She acts as if she has to know all before making a choice for God. Therefore she chooses.
None of his examples of mass murder were Christians. They were athiests!😮