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The German Panzerwaffe - Hoi4 MP In A Nutshell

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  • Опубліковано 11 гру 2022
  • Hearts of Iron 4 MP in a nutshell
    (Hearts of iron 4 multiplayer)
    Can't believe he got away the first time...
    Episode 269
    Mods: TFB
    Music:
    Hearts of Iron 4 Theme
    Twitch:
    / bokoen
    Patreon: / bokoen1
    My Discord:
    / discord
    Twitter: / bokoen1
    #Heartsofiron4 #Memes #History

КОМЕНТАРІ • 404

  • @Bokoen1
    @Bokoen1  Рік тому +1955

    This wasn't my best perfomance...

    • @justjozua1827
      @justjozua1827 Рік тому +154

      Pinned and liked by himself whilst using his own emote. Bokoen1 the ultimate goblin

    • @AproX_
      @AproX_ Рік тому +12

      They said my İtaly was weak

    • @darthnox7958
      @darthnox7958 Рік тому +6

      I haven't laughed so much in a bo video for a while dude! And if it makes you feel any better I also had no fucking clue there was a river there, it was so fucking funny

    • @danielkaner5156
      @danielkaner5156 Рік тому +29

      I love how dankus is acting like he is the best hoi4 player in the world, but in reality he throws the game as often as swimmy

    • @eeggllee9728
      @eeggllee9728 Рік тому

      sometimes i submerge chips in milk, dry them, crush them up and then snort them but thats only on wednesday's

  • @liladoodle
    @liladoodle Рік тому +2321

    Germany: *Has 7,000 tanks & 20 tank divisions.*
    The Allies: "Good. Twice the pride, double the fall".

  • @penis9023
    @penis9023 Рік тому +2510

    It is funny that Dankus always seem to be play like a semi-sentient slap of concrete, when he is in a video. Must be the script

    • @theanonymousmrgrape5911
      @theanonymousmrgrape5911 Рік тому +538

      It’s a complete tossup between that and him completely dominating and causing the other team to rage.

    • @kamiriniko
      @kamiriniko Рік тому +150

      @@theanonymousmrgrape5911 usually by cheesing

    • @serdikcraig6307
      @serdikcraig6307 Рік тому +319

      To be fair to Dankus, Bo kept yelling at him to naval invade Israel and every time Dankus tried there were tanks there and he couldn't land. He had garrisons on Benghazi but the French just threw themselves at it. Bo is victimizing himself and hating on Dankus you can't blame Dankus completely, he played well stil

    • @goncalobalanca4299
      @goncalobalanca4299 Рік тому +6

      @@kamiriniko i mean, it wasnt on the rules, it was on the mod 🤷‍♂🤷‍♂

    • @KayveePlays
      @KayveePlays Рік тому +146

      @@serdikcraig6307 guessing this was from the stream then? Also Im not disagreeing but Dankus never actually said anything to Bo or the others about leaving for Gibraltar when he did or that the port in africa was about to be overrun.

  • @Jacob-qr8pl
    @Jacob-qr8pl Рік тому +652

    The lake keeping the retreat out of Finland cut off sounds like a realistic major oversight that could happen.

    • @shadowraven3253
      @shadowraven3253 Рік тому +150

      ''The ice is thick enough for the tanks, don't worry!!''
      *after the first tank broke through the ice and goes under*
      ''Uh...I can explain...it normaly is...REALLY!!''

    • @daddysempaichan
      @daddysempaichan Рік тому +126

      It's that one moment where German planned an attack along a road and when they got there they found like, a telephone line instead.

    • @jdreyes3745
      @jdreyes3745 Рік тому +72

      Reminds me of that Arma 3 video where the lead tank of a bunch of Leopard 1s ended up in the drink cause of how the map rendered what was apparently a river to look like shallow valley the tanks could cross.

    • @aaroncabatingan5238
      @aaroncabatingan5238 Рік тому +22

      @@jdreyes3745 Is it Rimmy's video?

    • @jdreyes3745
      @jdreyes3745 Рік тому +26

      @@aaroncabatingan5238 "Please don't drive your STuGs into the water, I don't want a repeat of chargedown! "

  • @KFP_DonDon_Quixote
    @KFP_DonDon_Quixote Рік тому +1038

    It isn't a HOI4 game without some incredibly genius maneuvers... and by that, I mean incredibly hilarious losses. Thank you.

  • @jonnycoolg
    @jonnycoolg Рік тому +895

    It seems like the games where the Axis ultimately loses are always the most entertaining.

  • @wetwillyis_1881
    @wetwillyis_1881 Рік тому +171

    “It ain’t over until the fat lady sings, and boy is she singing!” Is the funniest line of this year, that better make the 2022 recap.

    • @Dennisroos
      @Dennisroos Рік тому +41

      I think "We're gonna hold Prague until the last man. And there he goes, the last man." is still the best, but this is a solid number two

    • @anderslundevall3151
      @anderslundevall3151 Рік тому +2

      @@Dennisroos where's that from?

    • @Reneus
      @Reneus Рік тому +1

      @@anderslundevall3151 The Italian Counter D-Day 7:27

    • @wetwillyis_1881
      @wetwillyis_1881 Рік тому +1

      @@Dennisroos That's true.

  • @lemunt4906
    @lemunt4906 Рік тому +227

    "But then it started going downhill in Africa, then in Finland, Then in the USSR"
    Hey I've seen this one before!

    • @joshuasteele2645
      @joshuasteele2645 Рік тому +1

      I think I watched a movie about this one! So this is where the movies got all their inspiration from!

  • @Jacob-qr8pl
    @Jacob-qr8pl Рік тому +106

    "Prepare the next failure!" had so much sweet optimism.

  • @johnsheehy2389
    @johnsheehy2389 Рік тому +261

    Dankus heard Bo was going full LARP with the production lines and decided to one up him

  • @cookiecraze1310
    @cookiecraze1310 Рік тому +107

    Dankus playing solo: Godlike instant win tank divisions
    Dankus the second he has to help a teammate: *Aggressive lobotimisation noises*

  • @TheCredfield
    @TheCredfield Рік тому +81

    bokoen and Thomas having dinner in the bunker talking about the 20 tank divisions that are about to destroy the soviet front:
    "My Führer, I didn't even know that we still had such reserves!"

  • @dylanking6960
    @dylanking6960 Рік тому +1803

    As bad as golden is, he is responsible for the best content on this channel by a long shot. I hope he never leaves.
    Edit: best HOI4 content specifically, thank you Marek Havrlik

    • @Bronimin
      @Bronimin Рік тому +29

      I love him

    • @marekhavrlik9851
      @marekhavrlik9851 Рік тому +239

      Not sure if for best, but he is hard contestant for such role with Swigma.
      Edit: Thanks to Dylan King for new POV and being a nice member of community.

    • @dylanking6960
      @dylanking6960 Рік тому +174

      @@marekhavrlik9851 Eh, i tend to disagree. Swimmy is just incapable of teamwork, while Golden is also incapable of teamwork, very high octane and occasionally braindead, with the rare spark of manic brilliance - see the Axis United Front episode.

    • @purpledevilr7463
      @purpledevilr7463 Рік тому +31

      Specked into a personality build, didn’t invest into game playing at all.

    • @rimmer123q8
      @rimmer123q8 Рік тому +84

      @@dylanking6960 the thing is golden almost only creates good content for hoi. In other games like vicky he often does not particiapte as much in creating content. Meanwhile, Swimmy is creating content in both hoi games, vicky games, eu4 games and even non paradox games. Some people even argue that he makes better content in hoi4 alone than golden.

  • @kyleolcott1769
    @kyleolcott1769 Рік тому +788

    Does anyone remember the episode where Finland held off the Soviets entirely with ghost divisions? I cannot remember the title and have been trying to find it.

    • @h0riz0n45
      @h0riz0n45 Рік тому +259

      It’s the American Mechanized video

    • @2Links
      @2Links Рік тому +72

      I laughed so hard at that one.

    • @wceend5791
      @wceend5791 Рік тому +1

      @packer

    • @connorjones9445
      @connorjones9445 Рік тому +5

      Isn't it called Operation Bodyguard?

    • @petertth2221
      @petertth2221 Рік тому +51

      @@connorjones9445 no thats the one where bo deploys the ghost tank army

  • @saulgallagher5668
    @saulgallagher5668 Рік тому +256

    Dankus works well when he can zoom in to 4 tiles with 12 tanks as his entire country's army, every other time he's braindead

    • @Kyle49840
      @Kyle49840 Рік тому +57

      He can compete against micros, but not against macros

    • @mosesracal6758
      @mosesracal6758 Рік тому +12

      Hes a general not a bureaucrat. He cannot absolutely macro the size of the earth.

    • @azarshadakumuktir4551
      @azarshadakumuktir4551 Рік тому +28

      @@mosesracal6758 I would rather say he is a tank corp commander, he isn't good at microing infantry either, literally Rommel or Patton, he is no Zhukov or Rokossovsky.

  • @drekbleh7081
    @drekbleh7081 Рік тому +45

    2:16 Oh my God stream sniping your allies to rat out their incompetence Golden would be a nightmare in a dictatorship command

  • @bassamalfayeed1384
    @bassamalfayeed1384 Рік тому +53

    08:18 That famous moment during the operation Uranus when the german generals forgot to build a bridge so their troops could retreat across the lake. 🤣🤣

  • @Andre-uu5xv
    @Andre-uu5xv Рік тому +84

    I swear to god Dankus in these videos is either a god at hoi or a fucking fresh installer lmao

  • @lucasvasconcelos5705
    @lucasvasconcelos5705 Рік тому +193

    Unironically, Golden didn't do anything wrong in this defeat

    • @EarnestVictory
      @EarnestVictory Рік тому +42

      He didn't get a chance.

    • @YotoBoto
      @YotoBoto Рік тому +59

      It’s a throwKoen moment

    • @GAarcher
      @GAarcher Рік тому +21

      @@YotoBoto snake of dankusmark

  • @sfjuhispst8144
    @sfjuhispst8144 Рік тому +144

    7:10 Those tanks weren't actually retreating, they were shipping out. This can be observed from their movement being potrayed by a blue arrow versus a grey arrow leading to the sea tile. You can make divisions retreat into a sea tile by manually pulling them out while they are in combat. This is a very strange part of hoi4.

    • @AjarTadpole7202
      @AjarTadpole7202 Рік тому

      @@scintilla3957 then why the rollback

    • @toxicwaste159
      @toxicwaste159 Рік тому +8

      @@AjarTadpole7202 Because the system is pretty dumb ngl

    • @Bokoen1
      @Bokoen1  Рік тому +88

      If you notice in the video I actually try and retreat them out of the port but it doesn't work.
      When they start to run out of org they then proceed to get deleted? Even if I couldn't pull out of the port, at the very least they should have retreated into the tile behind the port. Instead they just exploded.

    • @joshuanaumowicz5115
      @joshuanaumowicz5115 Рік тому +2

      It’s because Bo had last stand on and the tanks ran out of org which, for some reason now, means they just get blipped out of existence. I’ve had that happen a few times

    • @AlneCraft
      @AlneCraft Рік тому +7

      @@joshuanaumowicz5115 There was no last stand. The small shield is part of the planning bonus exploit that requires you set a garrison order to an impassable spot.

  • @Merugaf
    @Merugaf Рік тому +8

    "If the Bokoen Pissbomb army encounters a lake it retreats exactly as if it were not there." -General Ratkoen1

  • @VideoGameWarlord
    @VideoGameWarlord Рік тому +19

    "Prepared the next failure!" That was gold😂

  • @taptiotrevizo9415
    @taptiotrevizo9415 Рік тому +44

    This seemed so much like Golden or Swimmy, but Bo was a pleasant surprise

  • @realhawaii5o
    @realhawaii5o Рік тому +37

    Need more of Golden at the gates of Paris.

  • @mr.pilgrim1241
    @mr.pilgrim1241 Рік тому +24

    I can only imagine what the allied side was thinking.. they roll back the clock because Bo loses an entire tank army to a glitch, only for him to lose another entire tank army 5 minutes later. Like, how much help can you give a guy?

  • @MisterFoxton
    @MisterFoxton Рік тому +13

    "I genuinely don't know what to do after failure upon failure..."
    "Prepare the next failure."
    Dead pan brilliance.

  • @riolkin
    @riolkin Рік тому +155

    Every time I see Dankus on this channel he is fully throwing the game.

    • @azarshadakumuktir4551
      @azarshadakumuktir4551 Рік тому +45

      Its because he is really good only in a very precise set of circumstances : being on Germany or the USSR, with a coop and a production set nearly exclusively on tanks. After the start of WW2 he stops looking at anything that isn't his tanks corp. Look at his VOD's, its quite apparent. This is because that's what makes you be good in competitive multiplayer where everything often rests on tank micro. But in Bo's videos where he can't play those two countries he is thus generally bad at anything else.

  • @TheBlackwolf5011
    @TheBlackwolf5011 Рік тому +17

    man props to Dankus for the Italy RP. I really thought Benito Mussolini was playing with these guys. and then Bo ordering like 20 tank divisions from the bunker like it was nothing was so immersive. I felt like I was watching a war documentary for a second.

  • @madermc2979
    @madermc2979 Рік тому +46

    Can't believe the entire country of Finland would change it's to geography to own Bo.

  • @onwardtowaffles
    @onwardtowaffles Рік тому +3

    At the outbreak of war in 1939, Germany had 6 armored divisions comprising 2,400 tanks (total, not necessarily light).

  • @ohior3al874
    @ohior3al874 Рік тому +9

    Finland: Germany help the Soviets are capitulating us. Germany: Don’t worry I got this. Proceeds to try to link up forces by crossing a frozen lake looses almost their entire panzer corps in Finland. Rest of Finish troops are killed while Germany leaves with the last of their panzer divisions.

  • @ethanhatcher5533
    @ethanhatcher5533 Рік тому +19

    Fun fact, as Bo found out, Tampere is inaccessible on two side because of two giant lakes

  • @hellshing4866
    @hellshing4866 Рік тому +6

    Did Dankus throw or something? This looks like he purposefully ignored everyone lmao

  • @reaperking2121
    @reaperking2121 Рік тому +13

    I dont think I would have ever seen Dankus pull a Drezzel

    • @sturm9087
      @sturm9087 Рік тому

      Its nice to see him change up his blunders from the classic Dankus ones every once in a while

    • @tyty-xm8fw
      @tyty-xm8fw Рік тому

      I don’t understand what they’re accusing him of. his Navy was out because it engaged with the allied Navy and he had garrisons on the port like what the fuck else was he supposed to do!?

    • @azarshadakumuktir4551
      @azarshadakumuktir4551 Рік тому +3

      @@tyty-xm8fw His navy wasn't at the right place, it should have been in the East, not at Gibraltar, since it was needed to allow and protect a naval invasion from Crete and stop the allies from naval invading behind them while they attacked. As for his garrisons, he didn't warn Bo while they were being overrun, didn't defend supply hubs and instead retreated (which doomed the tanks since they moved slow because of no fuel). Also he didn't cover the tank corps retreat itself, which led to the bug happening at the port.

  • @BaronVonMott
    @BaronVonMott 10 місяців тому +1

    "Maybe we will win when Golden joins the war."
    Has the same energy as:
    "If Steiner attacks, everything will be alright."

  • @DerpyMackerel
    @DerpyMackerel Рік тому +12

    Omg that Romania Ball at 3:28 had me on the floor

  • @MichalisG1821
    @MichalisG1821 Рік тому +2

    “We are a fucking living tragedy dude.”
    And so they were…

  • @imme8471
    @imme8471 Рік тому +7

    Dankus is probably one of the top 5 villains in the Bokoen Cinematic Universe ™️

  • @georgesmith6218
    @georgesmith6218 Рік тому +21

    German larp just never gets old.

  • @theultimatepielord8697
    @theultimatepielord8697 Рік тому +3

    Dankus is fucking greedier than Scrooge man

  • @AdmiralRamenNoodles
    @AdmiralRamenNoodles Рік тому +6

    Man the Soviets and Germans really larped at the end there. The Soviet player straight up blew up Army Group Center.
    And I can just hear Hitler yelling at Speer to up production lmao.
    Truly one of Fuher moves of all time

  • @Tommy-qc4rj
    @Tommy-qc4rj Рік тому +2

    Finland needs a terrain modifier for its lakes to be crossed, in winter, with a 25% attrition rate.
    At least then, if you click on the lake, and the tile over it, you can do a _historically accurate_ and actually _useful_ trick for fighting in one of the worst places to maneuvre through

  • @joshtompkins1538
    @joshtompkins1538 Рік тому +1

    Honestly, I thought this was a Golden episode from reading the intro. I was pretty shocked when Bo was playing Germany.

  • @MrWeeseAChine
    @MrWeeseAChine Рік тому +3

    “They called my Italy weak”

  • @Vatikoto
    @Vatikoto Рік тому +1

    "It's Joever" - Rommel after his tank corps gets lost and encircled in a Finnish forest

  • @ChadwickMann
    @ChadwickMann Рік тому +1

    This is why I love Bo, he's the only one that doesn't lose his shit while he's, well, losing shit

  • @Zelein
    @Zelein Рік тому +3

    Italy failing to secure supply or assist in North Africa is actual canon in the BCU. From multiple ports all over North Africa to not holding actual ports during a massive counter-offensive.
    It's like they say: When the Axis queue up, only two option exist: Capable Italy punching above its weight, or the actual soft underbelly of Europe.

  • @theeternalsuperstar3773
    @theeternalsuperstar3773 Рік тому +3

    I just came inside from shoveling snow for 7 hours. Thanks Bo, I needed this!

  • @allesarfint
    @allesarfint Рік тому +1

    "So in this game the Axis didn't do too hot". Picture me surprised.

  • @eduardpeeterlemming
    @eduardpeeterlemming Рік тому +2

    Imagine someone in these sessions choosing to play as Latvia

  • @CleonofAthens
    @CleonofAthens Рік тому +2

    Glad to see Dankus' IQ gradually lowering each game he plays with you all.

  • @jacksonstuff3524
    @jacksonstuff3524 Рік тому

    "There's a lake?!" Is a new Top 10 quote

  • @bacon_1866
    @bacon_1866 Рік тому +2

    You’ve seen Panzers Meet in Crete,
    Now get ready for Panzers Pinned in Finland

  • @raikaria3090
    @raikaria3090 Рік тому +1

    I wonder who Germany is... I hear Gol... wait it's Bo? Snake of Denmark showing his own failure? Golden still lost.

  • @TricaGamer
    @TricaGamer Рік тому +1

    8:30, tank is IN THE LAKE!

  • @akseliloven5093
    @akseliloven5093 Рік тому +8

    Cant wait to see Dankus not make video out of this cause he fucks up so much :D

  • @DarmanMI
    @DarmanMI Рік тому +2

    The infamous port retreat bug the pain it inflicts is a constant in hoi

  • @pickle2654
    @pickle2654 Рік тому

    "it's not over till the fat lady sings and by God she is loud right now"

  • @RedLogicYT
    @RedLogicYT Рік тому

    DAMN THAT MAGINOT LINE TURNED INTO THE MAGINOT CROSSING 🤣

  • @fulcrum2951
    @fulcrum2951 Рік тому

    Historically accurate with how germany makes SO MANY different types of afvs

  • @neometallX
    @neometallX Рік тому +2

    Germany: *Loses half of their tanks*
    Also Germany: LOS LOS LOS! Mehr Panzer!

  • @joshuanaumowicz5115
    @joshuanaumowicz5115 Рік тому

    7:23 Bo: musta been a “glitch”
    Also Bo: *clicks the button*

  • @amongstus4418
    @amongstus4418 Рік тому +2

    They said my Italy was weak... (it was)

  • @Dorsidwarf
    @Dorsidwarf Рік тому +1

    Bokoens natural enemies: Lakes

  • @AHersheyHere
    @AHersheyHere 5 місяців тому

    Hitler assures the generals they can be supplied over the frozen lake.

  • @andrewschmidt6328
    @andrewschmidt6328 Рік тому +1

    Studying for finals, 10/10 great background video. As always keep up the great Vids!

  • @MrWeeseAChine
    @MrWeeseAChine Рік тому +1

    Watching Boe suffer gives delight to my little blackened heart.

  • @loonowolf2160
    @loonowolf2160 4 місяці тому

    first dankus doing trolls with fleets and stuff, then bo doesn't see the lake gg

  • @Vulcanus3231
    @Vulcanus3231 Рік тому

    The utter incompetency this round haha

  • @TrenersLP
    @TrenersLP Рік тому +4

    Honestly it's nice to see a losing side laughing about it and not screaming at each other

  • @realhawaii5o
    @realhawaii5o Рік тому +2

    9:25 what a shock.

  • @adambebb99
    @adambebb99 Рік тому +1

    They fear dankus's italy
    by they I of course mean the rest of the axis

  • @trygveplaustrum4634
    @trygveplaustrum4634 Рік тому +1

    *Bo can't read a map!*
    *Get dunked on, Bo Bros!*

  • @calebwhitetheawoken
    @calebwhitetheawoken Рік тому

    Casual hio4 multiplayer
    Memes, Choas, Lack Of Sleep

  • @shaggybottomtext8363
    @shaggybottomtext8363 Рік тому +1

    Bokoen uploads on the day before midterms starts. What motivation! If Bo is with us no math test can stand against us!

  • @Hatsuzu
    @Hatsuzu 4 місяці тому

    This dankus guy always throws the game man

  • @gent9358
    @gent9358 Рік тому

    "HERR BO, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TANKS IN FINLAND!?"
    "KOMANDANT, THE ENEMY STRAT-REDEPLOYED A RIVER ON OUR POSITIONS!"

  • @magni5648
    @magni5648 Рік тому

    Okay, that cheeky stunt of buying all the US' oil while the war was already on was actually pretty funny.

  • @elbeto191291
    @elbeto191291 Рік тому

    I watched the lake in Finland scene live. Tbf to Bo I wasn't able to see there was a lake there until I saw the move arrows

  • @spaceiscool7856
    @spaceiscool7856 Рік тому +1

    I was legit making monkey noises saying "oo-oo new Bo upload"

  • @Jacob-hx7kk
    @Jacob-hx7kk Рік тому

    3:25
    Bo: "Don't listen to Kristoff! He's a fucking moron!"
    The derpiest Romaniaball I've ever seen: *Rarted noises*
    Gave me a sensible chuckle.

  • @CaptainRhodor
    @CaptainRhodor Рік тому +4

    Never let it be said that Bo only posts his wins XD

  • @south6730
    @south6730 Рік тому +2

    not even 10 seconds in and golden is losing, great start!

  • @Argentum_Rex
    @Argentum_Rex Рік тому

    8:27 I can't stop watching that moment lol

  • @charlesowens7174
    @charlesowens7174 Рік тому

    Dankus really larping as Italy

  • @TheLoneTerran
    @TheLoneTerran Рік тому +1

    Oh really? That's wonderful!

  • @pringlesking2748
    @pringlesking2748 Рік тому +1

    7:00 what in the gooby goober fuck did i just witness

  • @fraginatrix
    @fraginatrix Рік тому +2

    If you look closely, I think the lake was also covered by the airfield model, so that might have blocked your view, Bo.

  • @SealChonker
    @SealChonker Рік тому

    Back to back Bokokoko video? Quite Based.

  • @forty5864
    @forty5864 Рік тому

    "Es ist... unmöglich unter diesen Umständen zu fürhen"
    -Hitler- Bokoen1

  • @darthmoon01
    @darthmoon01 Рік тому +3

    Honestly I'm getting sick of Dankus and his trolling. It's just to the point of bad form, as well as just tiring especially when you hear him in the background snickering.

  • @omegaalpha-th8mf
    @omegaalpha-th8mf Рік тому

    "all we need to do is drive west and we are safe men!" proceds to look at the map and see a massive finnish lake- shoots self

  • @Arthion
    @Arthion Рік тому

    Classic Dankus not guarding ports..

  • @Daltastar2012
    @Daltastar2012 Рік тому

    6:37 looking at the battlestar pegasus thinking where did we go wrong

  • @harrymoulton4358
    @harrymoulton4358 Рік тому

    The part about the bunker and 20 tanks Divisions kills me 😆

  • @phsycresconquest6636
    @phsycresconquest6636 Рік тому

    Þe Spirit of Swimmy haunted þe Axis þis game. Þis is a Textbook case of Mr Swimmy’s Wild Ride(TM)

  • @RubberToeYT
    @RubberToeYT Рік тому

    The Battle of Finland, lost because of a lake

  • @F.R.E.D.D2986
    @F.R.E.D.D2986 Рік тому

    7:08 that killed me

  • @Weste88
    @Weste88 Рік тому

    Bo playing germany is still my favourite scenario~

  • @Groggers96
    @Groggers96 Рік тому

    1:46 according to Wikipedia, Germany had "1,449 Panzer III tanks ready for combat" by the time operation Barbarossa commenced. So you had way more tanks by this point.