Might be nice, however am not willing to go to the extent of establishing and account and ANOTHER password just to see what they have to offer. Maybe OK for others, not for me, I'll pass.
You must be joking, 1 month free trial if I give them access to a credit card. Quark laughingly says no. How about 6 months free without access to a credit card?
Interestingly enough, it's theorised that the Annunaki mined gold on earth as a way of replenishing their Ozone layer by using it as a thin dust layer to reflect Infrared rays. Scientifically speaking gold Does reflect IR a lot better than most other metals. And there's a specific type of it I forget what it's called that after synthesis is even better than regular gold and that this was the reason they came to earth at all. Also, It was an already Genetically engineered species called the Igigi that was supposed to have been combined with humans as these new hybrids were easier to create. The Igigi were supposed to be immortal but were harder to create. This again is where the idea of ''angels'' mixing with humans to create Nephalim was the reason Enlil convinced the other Anunnaki the Enki had broken these fundamental laws and that's why they were wiped out. Not so stupid when you put it into that context. But obviously, it all comes down to your belief one way or another. I think it's a great story. And it's as good a plot as any star trek episode. And literally, thousands of years old, so if nothing else that has to make you wonder, what exactly was primitive man doing writing star trek fan fiction some 7000 odd years ago?
A primitive Vorta saved a Changling in the distant past. Their reward was being uplifted. Before they were merely weak ape like monkey creatures who were hunted for food and sport by vicious predators on their planet. I like to think these vicious predators were the ancestors of the Jem’Hadar. Hence the ongoing animosity between the two species. The Vorta treat the Jem’Hadar like trash as revenge for how they were treated as prey to Jem’Hadar predators.
I believe the story had a nugget of truth but not actually what happened. The proto-Vorta hid the Changeling from a lynch mob. How would that mob have the ability to be a danger to a star-faring Changeling in a planetfall and why would they be a xenophobic mob that wants to kill them? I feel that they were a society of humanoids with a degree of technology and culture already, not just tool-using monkeys, comparable to what we are now in this day and age and maybe more so. The other predators were other proto-Vorta, other cultures on the same planet and their criminal element. I see them treating the Jem'Hadar like trash the same way the Church treated their Crusader thugs during the Crusades, seeing themselves as the next-to-God caste of their theocracy.
The story of how the Vorta were created sound like dominion propaganda to be honest. The symbolistic and the almost mythological archetypes reinforce the current power structures and paints the enslavement of the vorta as a gift from the gods. It would in fact suprise me if the founders didn't have a creation myth for the vorta (presumably for the Jem Haddar as well) since they genetically engineered the vorta and the Jem Haddar to believe that they are gods
I think it is implied that it is not the founders that are afraid, it is in fact the link. The link never forgets and in the link the changeling lose their concept of time. Every beating a changeling took would seem as if it happened yesterday. The changelings that were sent away, and do not spend prolonged time in the link do not share this belief. We only have 2 examples but even Laz who does not like monoforms said : why control them, better to avoid them all together. You can even see the founder that got stuck in the alpha quadrant suffer from some sort of withdrawal and breaks the decision the founders made when they exiled Odo in order to link with him. She herself said she has never been away from the link for so long
I never believed that the Vorta were primitive tree dwellers. I always considered that to be a speciesist myth. My belief is that the Vorta were an industrial species and a changling may have lived on their planet and was found out. Perhaps a sort of E.T. Situation. A family may have helped it and when the Changling was rescued by its people it took the family with. The reason that they Vorta are all clones is maybe they wiped out the rest of them and then experimented on the family as a sort of reward for them helping them. More than likely torturing them.
I've seen this theory floated before, and I have to say, I think you might be on to something--it's perfectly in character for the Founders to demean the Vorta's history like this.
@@OrangeRiver thanks!! I always thought of the founders augmenting and experimenting on the family like what happened in Alien Covenant with the Aliens and David experimenting on Elizabeth. He loved her but still did the experimenting seeing her as lesser of a being. I wouldn’t put it past the Changlings as doing it to them. And the reason you only ever see a small number of Vorta variations is that those were the family that was taken.
I have no problem believing that Vorta were ordinary ape like creatures and that Changelings through genetic engineering transformed them in what we see them in DS9. But I find it hard to believe that Changelings were persecuted for no reason given of what we know of them. I think they were always the same. That they always had superiority complex, that they always tried to rule other species, but were not as strong as they are today.
Its just proof that even if you try to genetically modify a race, that there will be unforeseen consequences And trying to modify thought, never works long term without removing parts of memory
Human evolution spent thousands of years not only increasing intelligence but improving socialization. Simply increasing intelligence to human levels of an animal would be a bad idea since they will not have developed the self control and empathy with it.
It's entirely possible they could engineer that as well. Us not being able to do so or our science saying it's impossible. Isn't a relavent factor in a world where things like transporters and replicators exist.
Humans make clones To go out and cause crime on the news, and try changing your laws and the public narritive Oh but a fantasy race inslaves willing clones, dam. They are the worst 😂🤷♂️🤦♂️
As far as Vorta cloning, I'd always thought it was reserved for the diplomatic models only, not the general population. The Dominion cares nothing about people, only what they can control, and for that they have the Vorta diplomats.
i am pretty sure only vorta who display particularly desirable traits are cloned over and over again, and should one such line of clones be deemed sub standard the founders stop making more of them.
Ever notice how the Founders seem to hold the Vorta in greater contempt than the Jem'Hadar? Think about how the Female Founder talks to Weyoun, like she just barely tolerates him while he's completely devoted to her and her race. The ONLY time we EVER see her act otherwise is when she's about to die on Cardassia Prime from the virus and she called him "the only Solid I ever trusted". So here's something to consider: were the Vorta just a test-run for the Dominion's gene-engineering program? They're the only ones that have a preexisting ancestral race while the Jem'Hadar do not, or at least none that we're told about. So were the Jem'Hadar created from scratch, or nearly so? Given their OP status as soldiers that would seem to be the case; complete genetic and biological overhaul, which would require a LOT of in-depth understanding of genetics and biology when compared to modifying a preexisting species. But how did the Founders obtain that understanding? Our understanding is highly constrained in part because there are some things we cannot do for ethical reasons, like cloning a baby, messing with its genome, and seeing what happens. But do the Founders share those constraints? I don't think so. Thus when they decided to create the Dominion they used the ancestral Vorta as disposable test subjects for their gene-engineering program. Purely speculative of course but it was fun to think about.
That uplifting and ancient alien argument is why I don't really like "Who Mourns for Adonais" in TOS. I like the episode a lot, but as Star Trek, looking at the episode a certain way betrays the human struggle and our achievements. It's one of those episodes that I almost want to not consider canon, alongside Gary 7. If I have to consider it canon, I would greatly diminish the greek god aliens impact on the Grecians, make kirk's speech at the end about how they impacted civilization not mean much, even make apollo be a bit of a liar. He implies that the greek aliens were on olympus until humans stopped believing in them, but I'd take that down to they were there for a much shorter amount of time and only interacted with humans a few times, becoming more of a legend and having any cultural impact be attributed to the greek people. Maybe even have the greek people have their mythos created long before, and the aliens came and filled the role the Grecians made. In my headcanon, only female Vorta have telekinesis, and the founders purposefully underproduce them because of this ability. Perhaps to maintain better control over them. I'm very interested in whether the vorta can breed on their own, if they can't, will the founders give them that ability back, will the federation help to re-engineer the species, will they do that for the jem'hedar? The fall of the dominion after the war would be such an interesting piece of star trek media.
In my personal headcanon "Who Mourns for Adonais" is among the best of TOS episodes. Overcoming superstition and unquestioned believe in gods and deities is essentialy part of the human struggle. If I remember that episode correctly, the power of the aliens posing as ancient Greek gods was based on some kind of technology - which was also a very popular sci-fi trope in the 1960's. Arthur C. Clarke said in an essay in Science magazine in 1968: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. And Isaac Asimov in his Foundation Trilogy in 1952: "... an uninformed public tends to confuse scholarship with magicians". Naturally Roddenberry picked it up given his pro-science and highly critical standpoint towards any religion. In a way this episode also emphasis the importance of the Federation's first directive. The same or at least very similar idea was picked up again in Voyager's episode "False Profits", in which two Ferengis stranded in the Delta quadrant are posing as gods, using their technology as "proof". Or, an interesting variation, when the starship Voyager becomes a god herself in "Blink Of An Eye".
Perhaps Eris was engineered as a prototype that proved to be unworkable. Reluctant to waste resources, The Founders repurposed her as bait for the trap seen in 'Field Trip'. After performing this task, the clone line would be abandoned.
Man I really thought you were going to suggest that Skill Share has a course that will teach me how to genetically engineer my own slave race for a second. That would have been a bold choice.
You dont know the Masons 😂 Oops "founders" yeah, the founders, wouldnt be please he was sharing real word genetic secrets We are a fucked up society as humans 😂 some how, we managed to never become a type 1 civilization. But bypassed energy harnessing, and start genetically modifying their world
And i mean type 1 by the Kardasav scale Earth never has been, and never will be type 1 by definition. But we bypassed that and got to genetics and matter creation? Seriously we should be impressed and worried
I always saw the Dominions system of government similar to the Ottoman Empires Government. The Sultan was the top, the administration were recruited from captured territories or slaves placed in schools from from 11 or 12 to be bureaucrats for the empire. The Elite guard Janissaries were also recruited in the same manner. Like the Dominion the Ottomans took all the nurture away and made an artificial nature for their slaves just the Dominion did for the Vorta and Jem'Hadar
Agreed. Such a great balance between exploring the fictional universe and exploring those aspects from a real-world perspective. Deeply thought out explorations and a touch of humour to keep people engaged. Great choices in editing and the subtle music adds to everything rather than taking over. Although all his content is great I really loved the Star Trek: WW3 analysis from 3 months ago.
@@OrangeRiver I very often post fresh comments on channels but what I wanted was very much in line with Payton E’s comment so I’m glad you saw this. It’s constructive to point out what works and why. I think most creators are positive about negative comments too when they are thought out and constructive. Too long, too sort, not enough visuals and so on. There are creators who cover subjects that I find interesting or cover points that I am politically aligned with but they are very choppy with editing, not because they are bad at it but because it’s the only tool they have to keep things visually stimulating. There are others who make things into too much of a performance and it’s a bit cringe. As I said, your material is well thought out with great presentation, complimentary music that isn’t overwhelming, nice length, great colour palette for your own pieces, clear visuals. Easy to watch but also memorable, great stuff all round.
I like the idea that Sisko wasn't giving Gul Dukat the actual poisoned bottle of kanar. Weyoun knew this when drinking and was calling it toxic as a friendly dig against the Cardassians.
The founders rewarded the Vorta because they helped an injured Changeling who was being hunted, But in the end the founders treated the Vorta as high level servants period.
Well if the vorta watched when the changlings did to other races Serving, is better then destruction and slavery You can be a butler, or a chain gang worker. Id pick the butler aswell 😂
Thanks for another great video Tyler. Speaking of DS9, do you think its possible that the "prophets" in the wormhole were actually Bajorans from the future who transcend time and physical bodies to create/occupy the wormhole? It's a wild idea but I think there's a lot of evidence for this idea particularly in the later seasons of DS9.
I think that idea isn't that far fetched, though I'd have to do some more research and finish my DS9 re-watch to see how much water I think it holds. Honestly, that's the premise of one of the next few alien species videos I'd like to make...
Especially considering how often they say they are "Of Bajor" I always got exactly that idea from them. That the Bajorans transcended time to make sure they get to the point of ascending into prophets, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Perhaps the best way to present the Vorta is how they are similar in the relationship to the Founders as dogs are to humans. They are loyal to the Founders similar to dogs to humans. Domesticated so to speak. Well, think about it.
12:25 Then there were also cases where time travel shenanigans allowed present day members of the time to get future tech early (e.g. the EMH's mobile emitter from _Star Trek: Voyager_ ). AFAIK, this still counts as "developing on our own"? Great for you to cover the feasibility of uplifting, some ethical implications behind it, and other related sci-fi material that went there! I'm fine with it in the same vein that "it's a galaxy that can literally travel at warp 8), but nice to hear such questions being delved into none of the less. Also great to hear you have plans for a video on Jem'Hadar! 8)
I appreciate the balanced assessment of the viability of “uplifting”. I also like the subtle differences in the Weyouns - the first one we see for instance is clearly bored of his role, and has grey hairs, while the others are all black haired and take much more glee in bossing others around. I think that’s another reason they keep cloning them - to keep them young and domineering. If you’re looking for feedback on improving your videos, I would look into manually kerning. Some fonts have better basic kerning than others, but the TMP/DS9/VOY font has some really odd default kerning. For instance, the larger gap between the L and the O in your “cloning” title card, or indeed between the V and the O in this video’s thumbnail. It’s manageable to read through it for simple title text, but I’ve seen some videos that exclusively used that typeface for body text as well (like a video with all known rules of acquisition) and it’s really hard to read in that instance. So it’s subtle but would definitely take your content to the next level, to manually adjust the spacing to make it look slicker. :)
Look in the mirror And realize you pay tax willingly They offered you a punishment, for breaking a rule, that isent a rule The vorta are punished with death, cuz the founders need those skills and they need them to be faithful on the frontline You just get tossed in a cell and they make the money off you in the cell 😂🤦♂️🤷♂️ Why kill it?
I always thought Eris was only pretending to be telekinetic - the whole thing with her was a ruse, after all, and could've incorporated all manner of deception.
The biggest problem with uplift, IMO, is that it would force them to become like those uplifting. A hypothetical species that has no concept of humor would likely remove it from a genome as a waste or possibly even counter-intelligence in their opinion.
I don't think it's out of the question that an advanced race with FTL travel and technology that rivaled the Federation, would have the ability to genetically engineer intelligence. Even the Federation is shown to have this ability (Bashir is a great example). Sure, with OUR technology today, creating the Vorta and Jem'Hadar with genetic engineering is imposible, but not with the sci-fi technology in the future of Star Trek. Also, with those two species...their bodies and minds WERE extremely altered by the process.
The Federation, despite some specific treatments, seem to have put their primary focus on engineering and not biology. My guess would be that the eugenics wars caused this. Had they taken a more global approach to r and d, my guess would be that the Federation would be the premier authority on genetic science. Imagine that…Roddenberry’s brave and bold humans being so scared of something that babies are still born blind in the 24th century…
@@MrCornrowz It's actually outright stated that the Eugenics Wars caused this. The Federation banned genetic engineering because they're afraid of another Khan being created. I think it was Spock that said superior ability breeds superior ambition.
One little nugget I see differently. I don't believe their whole race are clones. I believe that those who are in positions of important use have their memories constantly backed up with a cloning vat on standby if that important Vorta dies. Having that mutant form of immortality is probably a perk for climbing Vorta society in the Dominion. You are more or less undying as long as The Founders find you important. I also believe this is a soft-core version of making Dominion AI droids... easily replaced copies with the former's memories, immune to poisons, higher intelligence, altered senses, lack of aesthetic sense (a pleasure thing among biological beings), some have special abilities not common to others, lack of empathy of those in its charge, pre-programmed loyalty to their masters, etc.
Its probably been worked out, not all Vorta genetically "work out" So the ones that would other wise not serve faithfully, or have any genetic imperfection. Never see cloning But yeah, after they have seen and tested the individual, i would aslo hypothesis the Founders then start copying that Vorta and make them a specific clone possibility. In case of their destruction or inability to serve, they are replaced by a working replica
They say that even with the cloning process that they have a certain amount of “random” mutation for genetic viability. I would easily say that this is where the TK ability comes from and that it is only on the female side of the spices as the female Vorta play a whole different game than the males.
The vorta are pekenese dog while the jem hadar are a pit bull. Both love their owners, but are genetically programmed for different jobs. It's easy to uplift and genetically program if you have enough time.
The most disturbing thing about the Vorta is the way the Federation (mis)treats them. They even agree to trade Kevan to the Dominion (to get executed). Almost as if they consider uplifted species as subhumanoid.
Well, unless its your dog If someones dog ran up to you, started talking and making your life a problem. You probably wouldnt mind escorting it to the pound, even tho it can talk. Cuz its still just a sentient dog, but a dog none the less
Ps, this is an analogy I wouldnt just take a dog to the pound 😂 I would take it in till i could find the owner, but if it started runing my house id consider it 😂🤦♂️🤷♂️
@@donovanulrich348 the thing that realy perplexes me about the Federation is: from a strictly pragmatic PoV sending any defector to his execution, will evidently deter future defectors. Therefore Governments from ancient Egypt to modern Russia refuse to extradite defectors. So why is the Federation doing it? To me it seems allmost as if there is a deep seated Resentment, probably from the Eugenic-Wars.
@@comentedonakeyboard remember Keevan wasn't a defector, he was simply a prisoner - an enemy combatant who surrendered to avoid certain death. There is no suggestion he was offered any sort of asylum, and prisoner swaps are a common practice between nations.
@@RK-252 except that since the Korean war it's standard policy (at least for the West) not to repatriate PoWs against their will. Particularly if they face repercusions (i.e. execution).
The telekinesis of the vorta is only witnessed in their VR-like simulation, never outside of it - so no one needs to explain anything. Odd the very writers did not realize this.
The VR-like simulation takes place in the episode "The Search, Part 2" (S03E02). In it, the male Vorta, Borath, appears in both the simulation and real world but exhibits no telekinetic ability. The only demonstration of Vorta telekinetic powers is in the episode, "The Jem'Hadar" (S02E26), where a female Vorta named Eris feigns being a prisoner.
Honestly, if we could make monkeys just smart enough to be able to handle most of our manual labor and crap like that, we could eliminate child labor in most of the world. Like in that hypothetical scenario we could actually work towards Starfleet. Would it be ethical? No not really. But in the grand scheme of things it would probably save a lot of people's lives. We just have to accept that monkeys are less than. Same with gorillas orangutans and all that. Make a class system within the class system.
They have bad eye sight and great hearing and a few with telekinesis because that's what the founders desire. They are diplomats after all, listening and talking are their prime functions in life.
Loved this! Have you read the Star Trek Adventures Gamma Quadrant source book? It has some really interesting stuff about the Vorta even if it's non-cannon.
Aww man, i really hate ancient aliens lmao, but if AAH were to be portrayed in sci-fi it could actually make a mean storyline if developed right and great video as always Tyler! 🖖
what was the original series episode where they went back & met the greek gods? or the other races that had watched? put the quantum entangled transport clone back on
Interestingly enough, it's theorised that the Annunaki mined gold on earth as a way of replenishing their Ozone layer by using it as a thin dust layer to reflect Infrared rays. Scientifically speaking gold Does reflect IR a lot better than most other metals. And there's a specific type of it I forget what it's called that after synthesis is even better than regular gold and that this was the reason they came to earth at all. Also, It was an already Genetically engineered species called the Igigi that was supposed to have been combined with humans as these new hybrids were easier to create. The Igigi were supposed to be immortal but were harder to create. This again is where the idea of ''angels'' mixing with humans to create Nephalim was the reason Enlil convinced the other Anunnaki the Enki had broken these fundamental laws and that's why they were wiped out. Not so stupid when you put it into that context. But obviously, it all comes down to your belief one way or another. I think it's a great story. And it's as good a plot as any star trek episode. And literally, thousands of years old, so if nothing else that has to make you wonder, what exactly was primitive man doing writing star trek fan fiction some 7000 odd years ago?
Fun fact The annunaki arnt worldly travelers, but "extra dimensional" beings And their is more gold above ground right now, then below. Its in carbon based life form blood, and the annunaki were Alchemists. They didnt mine jack shit 😂 their slaves did the mining, and after they worked themselfs nearly to death, they were sacrificed and thats more gold for the pile. Rinse and repeat for a couple hundred years till god got sick of it and destroyed the world once 😂 Most people cant accept the Bible isent 100% linear, "and the lord looked apon the world, and it was formless and void" so, god made everything perfect. But when he thought up the world, he needed to think about it more? No. He made it perfect, and noticed there was some imperfections manifesting (annunaki/fallen angels) and he destroyed everything It happened again in Noah's day and god flooded the world, promising bever again will he destroy it with water. . . . Cuz hes gonna burn that bitch 😂 but he didnt say it
Brilliantly researched and well written as always. I love the your poked fun at self-righteous idiots like Eric Von Daniken. He's just in it it to sell his book, while denying well known facts about Egyptian culture and technology.
The first 1,000 people to use the link or my code orangeriver will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/orangeriver04221
Might be nice, however am not willing to go to the extent of establishing and account and ANOTHER password just to see what they have to offer. Maybe OK for others, not for me, I'll pass.
You must be joking, 1 month free trial if I give them access to a credit card. Quark laughingly says no. How about 6 months free without access to a credit card?
Interestingly enough, it's theorised that the Annunaki mined gold on earth as a way of replenishing their Ozone layer by using it as a thin dust layer to reflect Infrared rays. Scientifically speaking gold Does reflect IR a lot better than most other metals. And there's a specific type of it I forget what it's called that after synthesis is even better than regular gold and that this was the reason they came to earth at all. Also, It was an already Genetically engineered species called the Igigi that was supposed to have been combined with humans as these new hybrids were easier to create. The Igigi were supposed to be immortal but were harder to create. This again is where the idea of ''angels'' mixing with humans to create Nephalim was the reason Enlil convinced the other Anunnaki the Enki had broken these fundamental laws and that's why they were wiped out.
Not so stupid when you put it into that context. But obviously, it all comes down to your belief one way or another. I think it's a great story. And it's as good a plot as any star trek episode. And literally, thousands of years old, so if nothing else that has to make you wonder, what exactly was primitive man doing writing star trek fan fiction some 7000 odd years ago?
@@divineglitch9550 Genesis 2:12 And the gold is good...
I was SO READY to get faked out like some of your other vids. It's real. You're sponsored.
A primitive Vorta saved a Changling in the distant past. Their reward was being uplifted. Before they were merely weak ape like monkey creatures who were hunted for food and sport by vicious predators on their planet. I like to think these vicious predators were the ancestors of the Jem’Hadar. Hence the ongoing animosity between the two species. The Vorta treat the Jem’Hadar like trash as revenge for how they were treated as prey to Jem’Hadar predators.
I believe the story had a nugget of truth but not actually what happened. The proto-Vorta hid the Changeling from a lynch mob. How would that mob have the ability to be a danger to a star-faring Changeling in a planetfall and why would they be a xenophobic mob that wants to kill them? I feel that they were a society of humanoids with a degree of technology and culture already, not just tool-using monkeys, comparable to what we are now in this day and age and maybe more so. The other predators were other proto-Vorta, other cultures on the same planet and their criminal element. I see them treating the Jem'Hadar like trash the same way the Church treated their Crusader thugs during the Crusades, seeing themselves as the next-to-God caste of their theocracy.
This is a great fan theory
Good idea
Interesting
The story of how the Vorta were created sound like dominion propaganda to be honest. The symbolistic and the almost mythological archetypes reinforce the current power structures and paints the enslavement of the vorta as a gift from the gods. It would in fact suprise me if the founders didn't have a creation myth for the vorta (presumably for the Jem Haddar as well) since they genetically engineered the vorta and the Jem Haddar to believe that they are gods
The founders were so afraid of being attacked that they attacked and conqured all, making everyone want to attack them. Woops.
Oopsie daisy! To be sure.
The Assyrians did exactly this in the early iron age OTL.
Literally the stupidest fuckers frfr
@@LanMandragon1720 glorious
I think it is implied that it is not the founders that are afraid, it is in fact the link. The link never forgets and in the link the changeling lose their concept of time. Every beating a changeling took would seem as if it happened yesterday. The changelings that were sent away, and do not spend prolonged time in the link do not share this belief. We only have 2 examples but even Laz who does not like monoforms said : why control them, better to avoid them all together. You can even see the founder that got stuck in the alpha quadrant suffer from some sort of withdrawal and breaks the decision the founders made when they exiled Odo in order to link with him. She herself said she has never been away from the link for so long
It's possible the Founders maintain a colony of Vorta that breed naturally as a control group or source new templates for cloning.
What better way is there to beta-test the viability of new genetic modifications, too?
Kind of like a nature reserve or a zoo. Can't see any reason they wouldn't
Picturing them hopping around trees and acting like really manipulative lemurs
would make sense as a backup
Obviously they have a farm somewhere.
Unfortunately the last Jeffrey Coombs was killed
The Vorta a.k.a the middle managers of the Dominion
I never believed that the Vorta were primitive tree dwellers. I always considered that to be a speciesist myth. My belief is that the Vorta were an industrial species and a changling may have lived on their planet and was found out. Perhaps a sort of E.T. Situation. A family may have helped it and when the Changling was rescued by its people it took the family with. The reason that they Vorta are all clones is maybe they wiped out the rest of them and then experimented on the family as a sort of reward for them helping them. More than likely torturing them.
Awesome theory!! I like this, very likely and believable
I've seen this theory floated before, and I have to say, I think you might be on to something--it's perfectly in character for the Founders to demean the Vorta's history like this.
@@OrangeRiver thanks!! I always thought of the founders augmenting and experimenting on the family like what happened in Alien Covenant with the Aliens and David experimenting on Elizabeth. He loved her but still did the experimenting seeing her as lesser of a being. I wouldn’t put it past the Changlings as doing it to them. And the reason you only ever see a small number of Vorta variations is that those were the family that was taken.
This seems very reasonable.
Perhaps the history of the Vorta has been altered by the founders to reflect positive vibes
I have no problem believing that Vorta were ordinary ape like creatures and that Changelings through genetic engineering transformed them in what we see them in DS9. But I find it hard to believe that Changelings were persecuted for no reason given of what we know of them. I think they were always the same. That they always had superiority complex, that they always tried to rule other species, but were not as strong as they are today.
"Have you met the average human!?"
Priceless!
This is someone who has worked in retail!
Don't forget 2001 A Space Odyssey as an example of uplift.
Very true!
*doorbell sound*
Good evening sir, I've a flower delivery for one Mr. um ahhhh, Al... ger...non?
TOS kinda touches on ancient astronaut theory with Apollo and the other greek gods too, wasn't just TNG onwards.
This is very true, actually. Good catch. In fact, I made a video about this very topic a couple years ago: ua-cam.com/video/--Har61ctmo/v-deo.html
Is the Vorta Keevan defective? He demonstrated a desire to live and a willingness to betray the Dominion.
i guess inteligence has some unintended consequenzes
like some Vorta starting to think for themselfs
Its just proof that even if you try to genetically modify a race, that there will be unforeseen consequences
And trying to modify thought, never works long term without removing parts of memory
Human evolution spent thousands of years not only increasing intelligence but improving socialization. Simply increasing intelligence to human levels of an animal would be a bad idea since they will not have developed the self control and empathy with it.
The Vorta are clones. So,they uplift a monkey, trained it for years,once it is up to speed, voila you clone it from here on out.
It's entirely possible they could engineer that as well. Us not being able to do so or our science saying it's impossible. Isn't a relavent factor in a world where things like transporters and replicators exist.
I know it was from dialogue in the episode itself, but how does one _beat_ a liquid?
With a whisk.
@@joeywall4657 That's one way! But now I'm just picturing mobs armed with kitchen utensils instead of torches and pitchforks.
@@Bludvarg 😄
The whiskings will continue until morale improves!
...it just doesn't have the same ring to it.
@@LexYeen You ask a glass of water!
I hope you do an episode on the Jem’Hadar soon.
It's coming in due time ;)
Something tells me that the Dominion never saw bioethics as a high priority.
Humans make clones
To go out and cause crime on the news, and try changing your laws and the public narritive
Oh but a fantasy race inslaves willing clones, dam. They are the worst 😂🤷♂️🤦♂️
As far as Vorta cloning, I'd always thought it was reserved for the diplomatic models only, not the general population. The Dominion cares nothing about people, only what they can control, and for that they have the Vorta diplomats.
i am pretty sure only vorta who display particularly desirable traits are cloned over and over again, and should one such line of clones be deemed sub standard the founders stop making more of them.
@@windhelmguard5295 and use them for Gem'Hadar training 🤔
2001: A space odyssey. The 'aliens' use the obelisk to enhance the primates, to evenutaly become us.
Ever notice how the Founders seem to hold the Vorta in greater contempt than the Jem'Hadar? Think about how the Female Founder talks to Weyoun, like she just barely tolerates him while he's completely devoted to her and her race. The ONLY time we EVER see her act otherwise is when she's about to die on Cardassia Prime from the virus and she called him "the only Solid I ever trusted".
So here's something to consider: were the Vorta just a test-run for the Dominion's gene-engineering program? They're the only ones that have a preexisting ancestral race while the Jem'Hadar do not, or at least none that we're told about. So were the Jem'Hadar created from scratch, or nearly so? Given their OP status as soldiers that would seem to be the case; complete genetic and biological overhaul, which would require a LOT of in-depth understanding of genetics and biology when compared to modifying a preexisting species. But how did the Founders obtain that understanding? Our understanding is highly constrained in part because there are some things we cannot do for ethical reasons, like cloning a baby, messing with its genome, and seeing what happens.
But do the Founders share those constraints? I don't think so. Thus when they decided to create the Dominion they used the ancestral Vorta as disposable test subjects for their gene-engineering program. Purely speculative of course but it was fun to think about.
That uplifting and ancient alien argument is why I don't really like "Who Mourns for Adonais" in TOS. I like the episode a lot, but as Star Trek, looking at the episode a certain way betrays the human struggle and our achievements. It's one of those episodes that I almost want to not consider canon, alongside Gary 7. If I have to consider it canon, I would greatly diminish the greek god aliens impact on the Grecians, make kirk's speech at the end about how they impacted civilization not mean much, even make apollo be a bit of a liar. He implies that the greek aliens were on olympus until humans stopped believing in them, but I'd take that down to they were there for a much shorter amount of time and only interacted with humans a few times, becoming more of a legend and having any cultural impact be attributed to the greek people. Maybe even have the greek people have their mythos created long before, and the aliens came and filled the role the Grecians made.
In my headcanon, only female Vorta have telekinesis, and the founders purposefully underproduce them because of this ability. Perhaps to maintain better control over them. I'm very interested in whether the vorta can breed on their own, if they can't, will the founders give them that ability back, will the federation help to re-engineer the species, will they do that for the jem'hedar? The fall of the dominion after the war would be such an interesting piece of star trek media.
In my personal headcanon "Who Mourns for Adonais" is among the best of TOS episodes. Overcoming superstition and unquestioned believe in gods and deities is essentialy part of the human struggle. If I remember that episode correctly, the power of the aliens posing as ancient Greek gods was based on some kind of technology - which was also a very popular sci-fi trope in the 1960's. Arthur C. Clarke said in an essay in Science magazine in 1968: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. And Isaac Asimov in his Foundation Trilogy in 1952: "... an uninformed public tends to confuse scholarship with magicians". Naturally Roddenberry picked it up given his pro-science and highly critical standpoint towards any religion. In a way this episode also emphasis the importance of the Federation's first directive.
The same or at least very similar idea was picked up again in Voyager's episode "False Profits", in which two Ferengis stranded in the Delta quadrant are posing as gods, using their technology as "proof". Or, an interesting variation, when the starship Voyager becomes a god herself in "Blink Of An Eye".
Perhaps Eris was engineered as a prototype that proved to be unworkable. Reluctant to waste resources, The Founders repurposed her as bait for the trap seen in 'Field Trip'. After performing this task, the clone line would be abandoned.
Sounds a bit like the He 100 fighter. Nice to show of, but impractical.
Sounds plausible to me.
Great video series! Look forward to this every Friday. I feel uplifted by this video.
Thanks Matt!
He's a member, UA-cam's analogue to Patreon. It can be accessed by the "Join" button!
Man I really thought you were going to suggest that Skill Share has a course that will teach me how to genetically engineer my own slave race for a second. That would have been a bold choice.
Lmao
well the Vorta Overlords of Jem'hadar tube wouldn't allow that!
You dont know the Masons 😂
Oops "founders" yeah, the founders, wouldnt be please he was sharing real word genetic secrets
We are a fucked up society as humans 😂 some how, we managed to never become a type 1 civilization. But bypassed energy harnessing, and start genetically modifying their world
And i mean type 1 by the Kardasav scale
Earth never has been, and never will be type 1 by definition.
But we bypassed that and got to genetics and matter creation?
Seriously we should be impressed and worried
I always saw the Dominions system of government similar to the Ottoman Empires Government. The Sultan was the top, the administration were recruited from captured territories or slaves placed in schools from from 11 or 12 to be bureaucrats for the empire. The Elite guard Janissaries were also recruited in the same manner. Like the Dominion the Ottomans took all the nurture away and made an artificial nature for their slaves just the Dominion did for the Vorta and Jem'Hadar
I appreciate this content very much. You cover lore in a way I just cant get from other channels.
Agreed. Such a great balance between exploring the fictional universe and exploring those aspects from a real-world perspective. Deeply thought out explorations and a touch of humour to keep people engaged. Great choices in editing and the subtle music adds to everything rather than taking over. Although all his content is great I really loved the Star Trek: WW3 analysis from 3 months ago.
Thank you all so much! I'm glad people appreciate my editing and presentation style.
@@OrangeRiver I very often post fresh comments on channels but what I wanted was very much in line with Payton E’s comment so I’m glad you saw this. It’s constructive to point out what works and why. I think most creators are positive about negative comments too when they are thought out and constructive. Too long, too sort, not enough visuals and so on. There are creators who cover subjects that I find interesting or cover points that I am politically aligned with but they are very choppy with editing, not because they are bad at it but because it’s the only tool they have to keep things visually stimulating. There are others who make things into too much of a performance and it’s a bit cringe. As I said, your material is well thought out with great presentation, complimentary music that isn’t overwhelming, nice length, great colour palette for your own pieces, clear visuals. Easy to watch but also memorable, great stuff all round.
@@OrangeRiver we do
Glad you did this. The Vorta don't get enough attention. 👍👍
I like the idea that Sisko wasn't giving Gul Dukat the actual poisoned bottle of kanar. Weyoun knew this when drinking and was calling it toxic as a friendly dig against the Cardassians.
My favorite moment. Odo demands Bajoran officers handle promenade security, Weyoun instantly approves and doesn't care that the Cardassians refused.
The founders rewarded the Vorta because they helped an injured Changeling who was being hunted, But in the end the founders treated the Vorta as high level servants period.
Well if the vorta watched when the changlings did to other races
Serving, is better then destruction and slavery
You can be a butler, or a chain gang worker. Id pick the butler aswell 😂
Thanks for another great video Tyler. Speaking of DS9, do you think its possible that the "prophets" in the wormhole were actually Bajorans from the future who transcend time and physical bodies to create/occupy the wormhole? It's a wild idea but I think there's a lot of evidence for this idea particularly in the later seasons of DS9.
I think that idea isn't that far fetched, though I'd have to do some more research and finish my DS9 re-watch to see how much water I think it holds. Honestly, that's the premise of one of the next few alien species videos I'd like to make...
Especially considering how often they say they are "Of Bajor" I always got exactly that idea from them. That the Bajorans transcended time to make sure they get to the point of ascending into prophets, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
I'd rather they remain a more non-traditional alien species. They literally live without a concept of time. Everything is 'always'.
@@kinagrilleverything outside of gravity is also outside of time; we know that for certain now.
Perhaps the best way to present the Vorta is how they are similar in the relationship to the Founders as dogs are to humans. They are loyal to the Founders similar to dogs to humans. Domesticated so to speak. Well, think about it.
I love these video's so much i recently watch everything on your channel i just love how there is elements of star trek and then real world science :)
12:25 Then there were also cases where time travel shenanigans allowed present day members of the time to get future tech early (e.g. the EMH's mobile emitter from _Star Trek: Voyager_ ). AFAIK, this still counts as "developing on our own"?
Great for you to cover the feasibility of uplifting, some ethical implications behind it, and other related sci-fi material that went there! I'm fine with it in the same vein that "it's a galaxy that can literally travel at warp 8), but nice to hear such questions being delved into none of the less.
Also great to hear you have plans for a video on Jem'Hadar! 8)
Tyler, you made my weekend. Again. Thanks!
I'm glad I can make someone's weekend!
I appreciate the balanced assessment of the viability of “uplifting”. I also like the subtle differences in the Weyouns - the first one we see for instance is clearly bored of his role, and has grey hairs, while the others are all black haired and take much more glee in bossing others around. I think that’s another reason they keep cloning them - to keep them young and domineering.
If you’re looking for feedback on improving your videos, I would look into manually kerning. Some fonts have better basic kerning than others, but the TMP/DS9/VOY font has some really odd default kerning.
For instance, the larger gap between the L and the O in your “cloning” title card, or indeed between the V and the O in this video’s thumbnail.
It’s manageable to read through it for simple title text, but I’ve seen some videos that exclusively used that typeface for body text as well (like a video with all known rules of acquisition) and it’s really hard to read in that instance.
So it’s subtle but would definitely take your content to the next level, to manually adjust the spacing to make it look slicker. :)
Great look into real world genetic science
I will LITERALLY sign up for skillzshare if I can learn how to genetically engineer my own servant race.
Look in the mirror
And realize you pay tax willingly
They offered you a punishment, for breaking a rule, that isent a rule
The vorta are punished with death, cuz the founders need those skills and they need them to be faithful on the frontline
You just get tossed in a cell and they make the money off you in the cell 😂🤦♂️🤷♂️ Why kill it?
Good shit as usual mate. Keep up the good work.
I always thought Eris was only pretending to be telekinetic - the whole thing with her was a ruse, after all, and could've incorporated all manner of deception.
Love the Volta but I always wondered about the decision to give them a boxtop wig
The biggest problem with uplift, IMO, is that it would force them to become like those uplifting. A hypothetical species that has no concept of humor would likely remove it from a genome as a waste or possibly even counter-intelligence in their opinion.
I don't think it's out of the question that an advanced race with FTL travel and technology that rivaled the Federation, would have the ability to genetically engineer intelligence. Even the Federation is shown to have this ability (Bashir is a great example). Sure, with OUR technology today, creating the Vorta and Jem'Hadar with genetic engineering is imposible, but not with the sci-fi technology in the future of Star Trek. Also, with those two species...their bodies and minds WERE extremely altered by the process.
The Federation, despite some specific treatments, seem to have put their primary focus on engineering and not biology. My guess would be that the eugenics wars caused this.
Had they taken a more global approach to r and d, my guess would be that the Federation would be the premier authority on genetic science.
Imagine that…Roddenberry’s brave and bold humans being so scared of something that babies are still born blind in the 24th century…
@@MrCornrowz It's actually outright stated that the Eugenics Wars caused this. The Federation banned genetic engineering because they're afraid of another Khan being created. I think it was Spock that said superior ability breeds superior ambition.
Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes is a much loved novel (which is also a short story) about augmented intelligence.
I like how you cite real science and not that pseudo nonsense when explaining various aspects of Star Trek.
Another great video!
as always, great video!! also, the drawing of your wife looks great ;)
😂 Thank you, Jessica!
One little nugget I see differently. I don't believe their whole race are clones. I believe that those who are in positions of important use have their memories constantly backed up with a cloning vat on standby if that important Vorta dies. Having that mutant form of immortality is probably a perk for climbing Vorta society in the Dominion. You are more or less undying as long as The Founders find you important. I also believe this is a soft-core version of making Dominion AI droids... easily replaced copies with the former's memories, immune to poisons, higher intelligence, altered senses, lack of aesthetic sense (a pleasure thing among biological beings), some have special abilities not common to others, lack of empathy of those in its charge, pre-programmed loyalty to their masters, etc.
Its probably been worked out, not all Vorta genetically "work out"
So the ones that would other wise not serve faithfully, or have any genetic imperfection. Never see cloning
But yeah, after they have seen and tested the individual, i would aslo hypothesis the Founders then start copying that Vorta and make them a specific clone possibility. In case of their destruction or inability to serve, they are replaced by a working replica
@@donovanulrich348 I can see that.
If we didn't have the ancient astronaut thing in real-life, we likely would have never gotten the Star Gate series.
They say that even with the cloning process that they have a certain amount of “random” mutation for genetic viability. I would easily say that this is where the TK ability comes from and that it is only on the female side of the spices as the female Vorta play a whole different game than the males.
Thank you for this.
Would like to see you go into cloning both the vorta the history of anyhow and cloning in real life that would be a very interesting video.
And also I would just like to say that when I hear the words "Tyler here", I know I'm about to learn something.
Great video as always!
The vorta are pekenese dog while the jem hadar are a pit bull. Both love their owners, but are genetically programmed for different jobs. It's easy to uplift and genetically program if you have enough time.
Keepin' it nerdy
A look at the biology of every alien in ST: lots of latex
Love the purple and green.
15:41 bring up another question, could the Changelings if they wanted to create more Data like beings?
I'm also a huge fan of David Brin's Uplift series.
Ironically enough I literally watched Carbon Creek today lol
Best segue ever! Keep up the great work! I always learn some real world facts from your Star Trek videos! Best of both worlds, eh?
The most disturbing thing about the Vorta is the way the Federation (mis)treats them. They even agree to trade Kevan to the Dominion (to get executed). Almost as if they consider uplifted species as subhumanoid.
Well, unless its your dog
If someones dog ran up to you, started talking and making your life a problem.
You probably wouldnt mind escorting it to the pound, even tho it can talk. Cuz its still just a sentient dog, but a dog none the less
Ps, this is an analogy
I wouldnt just take a dog to the pound 😂
I would take it in till i could find the owner, but if it started runing my house id consider it 😂🤦♂️🤷♂️
@@donovanulrich348 the thing that realy perplexes me about the Federation is: from a strictly pragmatic PoV sending any defector to his execution, will evidently deter future defectors. Therefore Governments from ancient Egypt to modern Russia refuse to extradite defectors. So why is the Federation doing it?
To me it seems allmost as if there is a deep seated Resentment, probably from the Eugenic-Wars.
@@comentedonakeyboard remember Keevan wasn't a defector, he was simply a prisoner - an enemy combatant who surrendered to avoid certain death. There is no suggestion he was offered any sort of asylum, and prisoner swaps are a common practice between nations.
@@RK-252 except that since the Korean war it's standard policy (at least for the West) not to repatriate PoWs against their will. Particularly if they face repercusions (i.e. execution).
We were all conceived and born without our consent. Others chose to bring us into existence. Is that any different than uplifting?
Furthermore if the uplifted species/individual would prefer to be dumbed down, there are easy ways to do that. Drugs, for example.
The telekinesis of the vorta is only witnessed in their VR-like simulation, never outside of it - so no one needs to explain anything. Odd the very writers did not realize this.
The VR-like simulation takes place in the episode "The Search, Part 2" (S03E02). In it, the male Vorta, Borath, appears in both the simulation and real world but exhibits no telekinetic ability.
The only demonstration of Vorta telekinetic powers is in the episode, "The Jem'Hadar" (S02E26), where a female Vorta named Eris feigns being a prisoner.
You're forgetting TOS episode "Who will mourne for Adonais."
Odd world is full of uplifting
How did you manage to say "apes" and show a monkey, then shortly afterwards say "monkey" and show an ape? 😂
Don't forget the voyage home, transparent aluminum
"Have you met the average person?" 😅
Really enjoyed this love these Biology deep dives
Honestly, if we could make monkeys just smart enough to be able to handle most of our manual labor and crap like that, we could eliminate child labor in most of the world. Like in that hypothetical scenario we could actually work towards Starfleet.
Would it be ethical? No not really. But in the grand scheme of things it would probably save a lot of people's lives. We just have to accept that monkeys are less than. Same with gorillas orangutans and all that. Make a class system within the class system.
Thanks Tyler
The Vorta Kilana is hot
They have bad eye sight and great hearing and a few with telekinesis because that's what the founders desire. They are diplomats after all, listening and talking are their prime functions in life.
Loved this!
Have you read the Star Trek Adventures Gamma Quadrant source book? It has some really interesting stuff about the Vorta even if it's non-cannon.
I love how you use the perfect musics from mass effect 😍 also the first one it seems, the most uneasy ost from ME
I haven't used anything from the Mass Effect OSTs in any of my videos so far lol
@@OrangeRiver uh ahahaha sorry then! The musics seems the ones from me... Oh well, I like them anyway ahahah
Creating another intelligent species would equavelent to bioengineering a rival for humanity.
For me, if I want to learn new things or gain new skills I download it directly into my brain? That's how it normally works. What did you expected?
Have you met the average person?
😅😐💀
Great video!
Jemadar, like havildar and risaldar, is an urdu and pashto military rank.
Just bought a coffee mug in the same colors as my high school... Go Wild Cats!
Sweet!
Sadly, we never saw any Vorta having sex. That would have spawned a good episode, or three :)
The changlings made a sexy Vorta to tempt Sisko. I could get behind that kind of religion.
Awesome video.
I was thinking that it was severely unethical as well
Awesome channel 👍
Thank you!
@@OrangeRiver thank you for very cool Trek vids, really enjoy the blend of lore with fact/fiction 🖖🏻
I realize this was a Trek focused video, but I'm sad that the Stargate franchise didn't get a shout-out during the Ancient Aliens section.
Dude... what that frame behind your left shoulder?
Aww man, i really hate ancient aliens lmao, but if AAH were to be portrayed in sci-fi it could actually make a mean storyline if developed right and great video as always Tyler! 🖖
Stargate
Wouldn't "Who Mourns Adonis" fall in the Ancient Alien theory?
what was the original series episode where they went back & met the greek gods? or the other races that had watched? put the quantum entangled transport clone back on
Apropos uplifting, I saved a fish from drowning today 🤭🇸🇪
"Cough" Greek gods star trek"
Woo Hoo!!!!!!
Interestingly enough, it's theorised that the Annunaki mined gold on earth as a way of replenishing their Ozone layer by using it as a thin dust layer to reflect Infrared rays. Scientifically speaking gold Does reflect IR a lot better than most other metals. And there's a specific type of it I forget what it's called that after synthesis is even better than regular gold and that this was the reason they came to earth at all. Also, It was an already Genetically engineered species called the Igigi that was supposed to have been combined with humans as these new hybrids were easier to create. The Igigi were supposed to be immortal but were harder to create. This again is where the idea of ''angels'' mixing with humans to create Nephalim was the reason Enlil convinced the other Anunnaki the Enki had broken these fundamental laws and that's why they were wiped out.
Not so stupid when you put it into that context. But obviously, it all comes down to your belief one way or another. I think it's a great story. And it's as good a plot as any star trek episode. And literally, thousands of years old, so if nothing else that has to make you wonder, what exactly was primitive man doing writing star trek fan fiction some 7000 odd years ago?
Fun fact
The annunaki arnt worldly travelers, but "extra dimensional" beings
And their is more gold above ground right now, then below. Its in carbon based life form blood, and the annunaki were Alchemists. They didnt mine jack shit 😂 their slaves did the mining, and after they worked themselfs nearly to death, they were sacrificed and thats more gold for the pile. Rinse and repeat for a couple hundred years till god got sick of it and destroyed the world once 😂
Most people cant accept the Bible isent 100% linear, "and the lord looked apon the world, and it was formless and void" so, god made everything perfect. But when he thought up the world, he needed to think about it more? No. He made it perfect, and noticed there was some imperfections manifesting (annunaki/fallen angels) and he destroyed everything
It happened again in Noah's day and god flooded the world, promising bever again will he destroy it with water. . . . Cuz hes gonna burn that bitch 😂 but he didnt say it
Brilliantly researched and well written as always. I love the your poked fun at self-righteous idiots like Eric Von Daniken. He's just in it it to sell his book, while denying well known facts about Egyptian culture and technology.
I think there are male and female vorta for genetic diversity mostly.
"Dominion" destruido ¿quien alimenta y cuida Jem’Hadar?
Obviously they have a farm somewhere.
Unfortunately the last Jeffrey Coombs was killed.
Me: huh. bored. what do you have for me, algorithm?
The Algorithm: [this video]
Nice.
Hell yeah
Molly Hagan was a hot little Vorta.