Don't do this
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
- V tail Bonanza escapes Johnson Creek - 2 pm. Light south winds 90 degree F.
This video had about 150 views total until late Sept 2023 and for some reason went totally viral. Yes it has a click bait title but that was not my intention. If you fly in and out of mountain strips you must understand density altitude. Density altitude is effected by elevation, temperature and humidity. There are less air molecules at altitude and on hotter days to create lift under the wing and produce compression within the cylinders of the engine. Consequently the performance of the wing and engine are reduced as the density altitude is increased. Humidity effects density altitude because the vaporized water displaces the air molecules further reducing lift and compression in the engine.
Johnson Creek (3U2) sits at an elevation of 5000 feet and 3500 feet long. It is in the heart of the Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho. It is a spectacular place to camp, hike, fish, and commune with nature. It is a focal point in the Frank Church Wilderness with a rich history. Mountain Flying caries more risk in part due to density altitude and needs to be factored into one's risk assessment. With proper training, proficiency and education much of the risk can be mitigated. Many of the strips have non standard approaches often with no option for a go around or rejected takeoff. I have other videos on this channel that show a lot backcountry strips in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, and Washington. I have a CFII/MEI and stay active instructing in a variety of aircraft and am very passionate about about aviation..
This video is instructional to anyone wanting to learn about Density Altitude. The temperature was over 90 degree F this afternoon and it was unusually humid. There was a 5-10 knot quartering tailwind. The DA was about 8200 feet that day. Runway 35 is standard departure from Johnson Creek. The 35 Bonanza was loaded with 4 adults. . Unknown how much fuel or baggage was onboard. I doubt he was in a turbocharged aircraft. When we heard the engine start and taxi down toward the departure end of 35 we were all surprised. Most people do not fly in the afternoons in Idaho and the general recommendations among most seasoned mountain/canyon pilots is to be down on the ground by 11-11:30 AM. Certainly on cooler days you can fly later and on hotter days you may need to get down sooner. Fly early and fly light.
This pilot did a good job once airborne not to stall the airplane. He kept the nose down and contoured the terrain. I believe he wisely headed up the canyon to gain lift created by updrafts on the northwest walls. I agree he should have deployed 10-20 degrees of flaps on the departure. Maybe flown out solo at first to test the conditions. A wiser decision would have been to wait until it cooled off. Below is a video of a loaded Stinson departing from Bruce Meadows with 4 people that crashed into the trees on the departure end in 2012 luckily not killing anyone. Every year people die because they do not factor DA into their flight planning.
• Airplane Crash In-Cock...
Hope this answers most of the questions. Safe Flying for Everyone and Support the RAF (Recreational Aviation Foundation) and IAA (Idaho Aviation Association).
Videos like this are 100% equally as important as accident case studies. Just because a disaster didn't happen didn't mean it wasn't totally wrong.
100 % agree. Flying GA is all about risk mitigation. We try leave room for margin for safety. This was on the edge and had the wind been stronger, temperatures warmer, or the pilot not as skillful this would have resulted in wrecked airplane and likely 4 fatalities.
i dont understand this video, can you explain?
@@PinkeySuavo The plane is too heavy, and/or the air too low on density, it just barely clears the treeline. The pilot should have aborted the take-off because the plane wouldn't take off the way it should have. But the pilot continued anyways, risking it all.
@@GenuineFlolie I see. Thank you
Know your role and shut your mouth, you jabroni. Pilot succeeded in his objective and no one really cares about your opinion
I was serving in the RAF, stationed in Malta, and one autumn, a hell of a storm blew up (they had to load a C130 on a dispersal pan to the max, chain her down, park two fire tenders in front of her as a windbreak, and she was *still* bouncing around like a pea on a drum). So I'm walking through the camp, leaning into the wind at a crazy angle to stop from being blown over, and I see a pilot from 39 Squadron (Photo Recon.) coming towards me.
"Not taking the Canberra up today, Bob?", I asked.
"Some days, Jack", he replied, "even the *birds* are walking!"
Ain't that the truth.
It’s funny, I was reading that normally (well normally to me) but when it got to the quotes my inner monologue switched to a British accent….
Great. Only pilots understand your comment...and try to imagine a 180 degree taxi turn-struggle to line up the runway, for instance...
That’s a good story mate 🇦🇺
Nice story, first heard the punchline in the early 60s, an old pilots saying.
@@asquare9316 - and as true now as it was when it was first said (quite possibly over 100 years ago).
Totally stumbled on this video by accident as an amateur flight nerd, but this is so close to me! Hope you guys stayed safe with the fires this year, excellent footage.
Her sandwich is making me hungry.
Love this comment. Very funny.
that's funny, her drink was making me thirsty..
@@KremitDeFrogher milkshake brought me to the yard
These pretzels are making me thoisty
Thanks, now I'm hungry.
I think before he took off, he told his passengers "We might make it, let's give it a shot.""
"Hold my beer..."
ah yes, the motto of Ryanair
at that point, they emptied their bowels making the craft lighter.
I would definitely NOT take those risk with passengers on board
Aunt Edna swore she only weighed 65KG.
“There’s airplane skeletons out there in those bushes for a reason.”😂🤣😂
Bonanzas: Doctor killers lol
Not really that funny.
@@Roddy556absolutely not for this reason though.
@@FS2K4Pilot snowflake
@@marcoeland3405 it still applies. Person has an expensive plane, is probably used to being in charge, and does something cocky/stupid.
Someone who has less money and more passion/experience will often fly better.
This video was filmed back in 2018 and had about 150 views until 4-5 days ago. Not sure what made the video get such attention but this was posted really to educate people about density altitude. Flying in Idaho in the summer requires some planning and in general departing Johnson Creek at 2 PM on a 90F day with a tailwing takeoff is just not a good idea. I agree with the comments about adding flaps but better to have just waited until it cooled off. I posted this video from 1966 published by the FAA. It is about a guy who coincidentally flies a 35 Bonanza with the name " Harry Bliss. " It is a very instructional video on DA and all still applies today. Be safe and always be mindful of DA.
ua-cam.com/video/sYrV35HCa5k/v-deo.html
I wondered!
Down wind on a high density day?
Did this guy own a pen and paper and an E6B?
Probably YT sending it to Blancolirio fans. And looking at the flag, the left turn was into a tail wind. And no flaps???
whatsa "a tailwing takeoff"
What did you do to make this vid appear on my recommendation? Tell me your secret.
@@DefactoAmbassador It is Al Gore's rhythm, that is all.
As a student pilot, that was an excellent explanation in the description and was very helpful to me. Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback. Most people don't take the time to read the explanation.
As an plane watcher and sim pilot, I have no idea what's going on here.
As a bedtime youtube viewer, i appreciated the explanation.
Of all the flight videos I have seen, this is one of them.
Ain' that the truth
😂
Yep
thats definitely one of the flight videos on the internet
And having just watched said video, I can assure you that it is still on that list!
I just tried out an online density calculator. 90 degrees Fahrenheit at 5000 feet gives a density altitude of 8038 feet. At 70 degrees, the density altitude is 6836 feet. Taking off when the weather is cooler certainly helps.
Before takeoff, the pilot needs to look up several numbers in the pilot's operating handbook: "What my Bonanza's rate of climb at 8038 feet?", "What is my Bonanza's required runway length to take off from grass at 8038 feet with X knots of tailwind?", "What is my Bonanza's Vx speed for best angle of climb?", and "What is my Bonanza's maximum gross weight and have I exceeded it?".
This takeoff was done on a day with high humidity. That also increases density altitude, but I don't have a way to calculate how much.
This one includes the dew point: www.weather.gov/epz/wxcalc_densityaltitude
You forgot barometric pressure
@@rylanthompson5844 And that's all before you throw in any sink from mechanical turbulence, the wind down in the canyon may not be fully indicative of what's happening up higher, basic soaring 101.
@@rylanthompson5844 Barometic pressure is exactly what the 8038 number represents.
Barometric pressure changes with weather systems. The runway altitude does not change. But the pressure altitude changes a lot. This is why you must adjust the altimeter to field elevation for each departure. And also why we tune ATIS for current altimeter setting before entering the pattern.
To find density-altitude, you need pressure altitude and temperature. Not field elevation. As was given above.
Humidity is easy, simply find percentage, and in conjunction with temp you can find percentage water mass per cubic foot of air. Water displaces air/oxygen. But it has such a slight effect that it's not really necessary. (0.01-3% in worst case).
Get the outside air temp from your temperature probe. Get pressure altitude by setting your altimiter to 29.92. Combine the two in a flight computer to get density altitude. Use your pilot operating handbook to calculate your takeoff distance and climb rate. Add a buffer, say 10% for having an old plane. Bam, there you go.
Id say boom but dont know bout the pilot
T/O into the wind
@@tmayorca8770 That too
So that was what the section on the Kane was for.
And....try and not plan a takeoff at 2 in the frigging afternoon when it's 90!
What a beautiful looking area!!!
I thought I was the one and thought that it's common for people who touch grass
I was going to mention this too. I’d love to Visit!
Seen it before this piece of paradise, it's a wealthy folks playground 😮
Johnson Creek ,Idaho 🇺🇸
Looks very similar to Hope Bc airport
Don't do this - take off on 17.
Johnson Creek (3U2)
Recommended Standard Operating Procedures
Departing Runway 17
Strongly Discouraged
Why?
1. Your takeoff path is directly toward the Bryant house and rising terrain.
2. Southerly winds prevail in the late afternoon. Aircraft should remain on the ground until more favorable conditions exist.
3. High density altitude conditions have contributed to several accidents at Johnson Creek.
Did you contradict yourself or am I reading your comment wrong?
@@Yeager123123 How so?
@@smark1180 You said to take off on 17 and then put that Departing Runway 17 is strongly discouraged.
I get how you read it but what he meant is "Don't do this (as in, don't do what's in the video) - (which is) take off on 17."
But the way it's written I think it makes sense that you read it like "don't do this - take off on 17 (instead)." In which case he'd absolutely be contradicting himself.
@@Yeager123123 Nope. "This" = take off from 17.
The title of this video is _Don't do this_ to which I appended "Take off on 17" which obviously means don't take off on 17. I added the airport SOP which includes "Departing Runway 17 Strongly Discouraged" which confirms "Don't do this - Take off on 17." I didn't write "INSTEAD, take off on 17."
There's nothing contradictory about that.
It becomes blatantly obvious how much power you no longer have in the heat at high elevations. I'm no pilot, but I'm a trucker. Starting up a grade in 90* heat in Montana or Idaho at 80k lbs, you're already prepared for the complete lack of power and the temperatures to start going up. Do the same thing in New York in the hills on a 55*-60* day and you'll understand, at least from an engine performance perspective, why heat and height are important.
I drove a new diesel-engined SUV up to the Sierra Nevada ski resort in Spain to about 10,000 feet and the engine was struggling, black smoke coming out the exhaust. The air might have been cold, but the air density was low, even breathing felt a bit strange. Then down again and the engine and myself felt a lot better!
Imagine if the motor only moved you forward and you needed the air pressure/density for the elevation gain.
Great post. 1:08 I had not ever considered heat affecting my pickup's performance while towing. Alltitude, yes. But temperature, no. Thanks for this.
We lose 3% HP per 1,000 ft. elevation during normal atmospheric conditions. That stacks up really quick. Now imagine if the wind coming down a mountain could push your truck backwards twice as fast as it can move forward until you escape that wind and you quickly realize why pilots who aren't trained in mountain flying and give themselves large margins of error end up crashing.
@@hardrockminer-50 Humidity can be a huge factor as well. Engines don't burn water very efficiently.
Loon Creek airstrip is about 30 miles east of there. Equally scary. Flew there in a small plane about 40 years ago. The old-timer pilot (Paul Reams) had never seen the airstrip, but absolutely refused to land there. It looked fine to us, the passengers. We landed in Challis instead. About 3 hours by car from our intended destination. Later learned from local bush pilots that our pilot made a VERY savvy decision.
I refused to land at Paradise Airport for the same reason. It's a 1200' one-direction runway with a cliff on the end you take off and land from.
I thought we were watching the world's fastest lawnmower.
She had ham in that
But was the drink spiked?
I subscribed, liked, clicked the bell, and came here, only because the channel name Dog is my cool pilot! Keep on trucking!
Nice. I have a soon to be 13 year old pit bull who used to do a lot of flying with me. He’s still goes up for short flights to the beach but doesn’t enjoy the camping trips out in the wilderness like he did when he was younger.
Is he on Galliprant? Its great for doggie arthritis.
I know nothing about planes but I had to click on this just because of the beautiful view. Now I also learned a bit in the process.
Aircraft that aren't super hated or turbocharged don't climb as well in less dense and hot weather. Takeoff runs are longer on grass. Some private pilot's aren't as careful as they have been taught to be.
There are charts for taking off at certain temperatures and pressures as well as on grass. Pilots are obligated by regulation to calculate takeoff distances before flying. Not only don't wings not work as well at high temperatures... normally aspirated engines also don't and altitude is a frequently recurring aviation safety topic. Furthermore, you are supposed to have a set point to abort a takeoff if it is not going well so that you don't run out of runway.
Her mindset “ gosh I hope he makes it .. takes a bite of sammich “
"He needs to just stop" Lol. Sounds like something my wife would say if I brought her to a fly-in
At the point she said that he was going flying or dying. No stopping when you are 3/4 down the runway at full tilt.
She means he should have aborted the takeoff
1 name comes to mind!
HARRY BLISS!! The vintage FAA density altitude flick. “This thing has a ceiling of 20,000ft with that kind of performance we can fly anywhere”.🤣🤣🤣
how bout flaps ? I don't remember seeing them.
It looks like the PILOT checked that the flaps were UP. Do YOU think that a high rate of climb would be desirable?
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 perhaps
Flaps with high density altitude only makes the situation worse. It increases drag and doesn’t make the resulting lift worth it.
@@frens_till_the_endthat would depend on the airplane and the amount of flaps.
Engine failure and that guy would have been a case study.
It happened to me a few times that the conditions and runway length were not the best, and without making calculations many pilots would have decided to stay on the ground, but by consulting the POH and using as few approximations as possible it was safe to go. I don't mean to say that you MUST fly in precarious conditions, but you MUST fly using all means of threats and errors management.
this video and description has helped me understand and picture density alt + aircraft performance way better now then how i understood it after writing and passing all my PPL theory exams. lol
“You miss 100% of the takeoffs you don’t take”
- Plane Gretzky
Plane Gretzky shouted some wisdom as he passed by in this video.. but it was difficult to hear him over the Karen noises and the clucking hen sounds
Yea but you survive 100 % of the takeoffs you don't take. This takeoff I'd rather miss and survive.
That makes absolutely no sense.
YT just suggested this to me, good to see. Not sure how many GA accident reports have the "if only they hadn't tried to take off in the heat of mid day..." Good that they were OK, but I appreciate learning from others' close calls.
I know at the old denver dragstrip was at 5800 with DAs in the 6500 range normally and a 350hp naturally aspirated engine would lose about a 100hp minimum.
This might have had half his hp and in thinner air aerodynamically too...
More horsepower is also required to maintain flight at higher density altitude. Less HP available, more HP required, the two lines meet at absolute ceiling.
My Dad did the same thing the same thing in our 182M flying out of Happy Camp CA. He used the slope lift get out of the valley.
Sometimes I wonder if anyone paid attention in ground school. They’re probably at least 5k feet and sprinklers are running increasing the humidity. High, Hot, Humid anyone?…
Incredible write-up in the description. Thanks for that
I appreciate you taking the time to read it. I can't tell you how many comments I get on this page regarding information that is contained within the description. Appreciate the kind feedback. It really is a great training video for Density Altitude.
The description was a long read, but I'm glad I went thru it
“There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.” - old flying saying.
RoFLmAYo is that a new expression?!?!?!
Hard to tell from vid but I dont think I saw any flaps lowered...? 0:17
Flaps introduce a trade-off where you get shorter take off roll in exchange for reduced climb rate. They could have made things even worse considering how poorly he is seen climbing out.
@@rui.craveiro Possible, but could have also had him in ground effect building speed earlier to get those flaps up. Difficult to tell without more information, though. Considering he didn't abort and pulled off a dangerous stunt I'm not sure I'd take his word for the takeoff configuration lol.
This was most likely a density altitude problem as the Bonanza was unable to climb.
he was building airspeed. there was no problem. stick to your flight sim.
@@billy_fred high AOA with that air he wasn’t building airspeed or altitude. This isn’t normal.
@@yungrichnbroke5199
how many hours in your book?
@@billy_fred plenty enough to know you’re not building airspeed with such a high drag AOA
There are old pilots. There are bold pilots. And there are pilots that don't calculate their takeoff minimums.
Forked tailed doctor killer
lmfao
I prefer to believe doctors kill the Bonanza
These planes do the short coupled dance too much for my taste.
What's dk stand for?
@@louly3212 Doctor Killer
I don’t know the other factors like elevation, temperature, etc, but looking the sprinklers drifting water, in the direction of his takeoff, I looks like a downwind takeoff.
Go with zero flap during acceleration and apply first level as you rotate. Less drag - more lift.
haha
soft field so not really
@russbell6418Park it and have one of those yummy looking sammiches!
Hard to do it in a bonanza with electric flap lever with no detents. And the first 10 degrees take a hell of a long time to deploy. So you just either pre set it or you don’t. You don’t mess with it during your takeoff run
He was fine. It’s all down hill from there with plenty of big bowls to make a turn around in. You never trade airspeed for altitude.
i would have flown in ground effect longer to gain even more airspeed, then climb out.
Unless you're gonna hit a mountain!
@@JohnMoore-xf5wy which they weren’t as I previously said it down stream with open valleys…
"You never trade airspeed for altitude."
Except when you need to climb.
@@smark1180 until you run out and stall then spin. Bonanza, telluride crash, 2020
I remember flying into 3U2 as a kid, one of the only times I've been legitimately scared in a small aircraft.
He didn't take on the Mountain. He went up the valley like he was supposed to.
.... down the valley... not up valley
@@snoopyontheground3481 Yeah, he did that too
Are you sure?
Seemed like he knew what he was doing
Always go early in the morning……cool air provides much better lift…and the cooler dense air makes more power…..glad my dad never flew his Bonanzas like that….😊😊
Planes take off all hours of the day & night.
A smart pilot leaves in the early morning with cool air…I don’t care if they leave all day long….we never left in the hot air of the afternoon….my dad was smarter than that….😀
Not at high density altitude they don’t….thats how you die…it’s apparent that you don’t know much about flying
"We chased lady luck till we finally struck" - Bonanza
And no flaps.
Taking off at an elevated altitude on a hot day in Idaho with no flaps - what could possibly go wrong?
Little did they know the Pilot has over 10,000 hours flight time in GTA5
I think this pilot was actually quite skilled. The way he contoured the hills flying northerly toward higher terrain took good airmanship/mountain flying experience. If you know this pilot or are the pilot I would love to hear about this flight from that perspective. I wish I could say that I have made perfect ADM (Aeronautical decision making) choices every time I flew but I would be lying. We all need to learn from our mistakes
I am going to post this video on BeechTalk once it hits 1 million views. Just for fun. Hopefully find the pilot. My hope is this video will serve as an instructional source for everyone to learn about DA.
Well, 10,000 hours did not help him choose a plane suited for those conditions and terrain.
Thank you for listing the airport identifier, I am going to try this in my flight simulator. :-)
It is quite possible this pilot was very good. And also thorough.
Field length is given. Field elevation is given. Turf and soil condition is also self evident for anyone standing around there.
Pressure altitude is found by setting altimeter to 29.92" and observing altimeter reading.
Density altitude is quickly computed by any pocket calculator, slide rule, or flight related computer from pressure altitude and temperature.
Gusting tailwinds are hard to quantify. But it appears to be relatively calm here.
You wont find strong down-drafts just randomly on a hot afternoon. There will be strong updrafts where the sun is shining (this runway) and the downdrafts will be in the shade. Usually along north facing slopes.
The fact this fellow had maximum power with brakes applied. Did not choose to set takeoff flaps (for specific reasons, mostly due to excess drag including induced drag from destroying your span-wise lift distribution with flaps deflected).
He does not force the rotation. Be does not raise the nose too high. He gently coaxes the aircraft off the grads, into ground effect. Allows speed to build gradually, without the grass slowing him down. He establishes a gentle rate of climb that allows him to clear the trees by a comfortable 100' (3x tree height). And he does not get greedy andtey to climb steeper at a potentially lethal Vx, as suggested above. (Backside of power curve, excessive induced drag, close to stall, with no way out except to nose over).
This pilot established a respectable 500fpm cruise-climb rate. At higher speed and shallow angle of attack. And simply climbed over the trees with plenty of airspeed to handle a gust or downdraft.
Everyone standing around, armchair pontificating about the performance of an aircraft they have never even flown or opened the POH for. Judging another pilots ability, experience, knowledge of his craft, and his ADM judgement based on their own limited knowledge of their own antique airplane, which does have nor ever included a POH. Because they were sold before this was even a requirement.
Most of those planes lack graphs and charts and engineering level performance data which Beechcraft alone, and no other manufacture, includes with their aircraft. Most older Cessnas and pipers, bellancas and Stinsons you are lucky to get single data points printed, such as Vx, Vy, Vne. Which do not tel the tale, and will lead pilots to make very poor use of their airplanes. Such as attempting a Vx takeoff as high density altitude with trees at the end of a plenty-long 3/4 mile runway.
He also took the right side of the valley, vs turning in the center, which is what you should do in narrow cannon/valleys. Two things about that, that make it the right thing to do, and this pilot Monday quarter backing brought it up… if he is concerned about “sinkers” come from the left, then you want to be on the opposite side where the lift is happening. Additionally, you should never fly in the center of a narrow valley, that’s where mid-airs happen. Also, flying as far over to one side, gives you more room to maneuver if you need to turn back. I honestly didn’t see anything wrong with the pilots actions. He got off 3/4 of the runway, he stayed to the right of the valley away from down drafts, avoiding head on traffic situation, and giving more room for maneuvering.
Did we find the pilot here? That's some oddly specific knowledge
@@bearb1asting I think that’s coming from someone that knows bonanza aircraft. I’ve only got a little over 20 hours in a bonanza but he’s 100% right about bonanza performance charts and he appears to have knowledge on Johnson strip. As for my comment, it is about general mountain flying and from what I can see, the pilot made the right choices as far as his path out.
Right. If eleven contributing factors are perfect, the performance of this aircraft is at book data or better, and the engine, gear and flaps work perfectly, and EVERY move that the pilot makes is absolutely flawless, then there'll be no problem.
I wonder how important it was to arrive at his destination on time?
As a vtail driver myself, if this has the 470 like mine, I can confirm it’s a dog with high DAs. 50 ft/min climb rate until gear is up, slowly transitioning to 400-500 at Vy.
They’re incredibly slippery airframes and can certainly move through the sky, but getting them to cruise altitude on high DA days is a commitment.
He didn't turn left right away so as to 1. avoid turning sooner than necessary, 2. to position on one side of the canyon to allow room for a shallow left banking turn if necessary to turn around, 3. to avoid a head on with any inbound aircraft. Though flying a V-Tail Doctor Killer, he handled it well.
1. the "doctor killer" is a perfectly safe plane. 2. youre never turning around in that valley at that altitude and height agl. its just not an option thats why they call it "the impossible turn" under 700ft. 3. nobody is coming head on. planes takeoff and land in the same direction if you haven't noticed
@@Sammyb_rc I think I may be missing something, but I'm confused as to what you think is going here.
“… he handled it well.”
I just spat coffee all over my screen. Getting lucky is not the same as handling it well. A more appropriate analysis would be something like, “he was fortunate to be able to crawl out from the massive safety hole he dug for himself”.
@@Sammyb_rcit’s a 1 way in 1 way out strip here. You take off 35 and land 17.
Legend says even the Edwards AFB runway was barely enough to use ground effect… Classic Bonanza moment !
Shouldnt you have flaps set for a soft field departure? That was a close one!!
... even build up speed... THEN apply flaps partway down the runway for lift... either way, pilot had NO margin for recovery there.
Density altitude issue, if anything. That strip isn't soft and likely is not even wet - with watering in progress nearby.
@@cdncitizen4700he’s fine😂😂😂
For whatever reason Beech omitted the use of flaps for takeoff in the POH.
IN Back yard of where I was raised... Back country flying in Idaho best in lower 48. Ive picked up a few plane pieces for sure. This is actually fairly long an nice runway. Lost one back country flying friend in Highschool...
Legend has it that Bonanza is still out there, trying desperately to climb up to 50ft.....😊😮
This is why you never meet an old pilot who is also a daredevil, theyre lifespans are limited.
Wonder what the density altitude was and his weight.
The DA was about 8200 feet on takeoff. The airplane was loaded with 4 adults - not sure about the amount of fuel. I thought he might have been in a turbocharged airplane when he first started the roll but could tell he wasn't after making an anemic ground run. I am going to guess this pilot learned his lesson after his balls were riding high in the back of his throat clearing that terrain. My Skywagon on a cool morning can climb straight over the hill directing in front of runway 35 just for some reference. Similar engine in a 35 Bonanza. The Skywagon is a better climbing airplane but a Bonanza would normal ease off the runway at Johnson Creek with cooler temps. Good lesson for anyone regarding DA (density altitude). Why I posted the video.
After googling the airport that is some very rough retain to fly around. I would double check all my numbers before taking off. Great video. @@dogismycoolpilot9662
I would say both too high. But there is no point in climbing at best angle if you don't have to, he's gaining airspeed and then doing a gentle climb. But its obviously not got excessive power because he used 10 miles of runway.
4 adults? Seems irresponsible.
DA 8200? Wow! You'd be lucky to launch a child's kite in a 20 knot wind, wouldn't you? If you could, you'd be well and truly out of breath by the time it took flight.@@dogismycoolpilot9662
"See the way the winds coming over that ridge?" "No Bob, I don't see the wind coming over the ridge"
no flaps?
Very interesting to see. Thanks for posting! I'm super happy to see that this didn't result in a mishap. I've edited my post as I'm a non pilot and had to educate myself on the phenomenon of "Density Altitude" I think this pilot might be safer if they did a little research like I did. 🤔.
Or he/she could have left at 10AM that morning when it was just 69 degrees and no one has to worry will they survive that day or not.
Flying is something I would like to learn how to do but at the same time it would scare the crap outta me
Density altitude is a factor here..too much runway being used.
That's what I was thinking, 90F day and he sure used a lot of runway. I think I'd wait until tomorrow at first light.
Super cool spot! I flew in last summer. Would never roll out at 2pm and 90 degrees. Just not enough margin to absorb any errors.
Why didn't the pilot have flaps deployed?
to gain airspeed faster.
Love that canyon...when there's no planes flying over every 10 mins during hunting season 😂
Them big sandwiches at 0:25 have made me feel peckish.
I was thinking 'man them are them some fat ham and cheese with lettuce, tomato, onions and pickles...
@@davehughesfarm7983 Yeehaw, mah li'l old mouth ain't a-watered so much since the last Alabama hog roast..:)
Why would it make you want a pecker?
A good sandwich should have ham thats booooooooooiled at home, not like the stuff that comes in packets, it resembles razor blades at times.
Those mountains are spectacular. Where is this?
The 50 70 rule was not taught when I took ground school back in the 70's. I hope it is now and should be part of a biannual flight review. It seems like this would have helped our tree-dragging pilot.
What's the 50 70 rule?
@@frapellAt 50% of your takeoff distance, you should be at 70% of your takeoff speed.
@@Majima_Nowhere thanks! Didn't know that
I heard that contact with the ground is responsible for 100% of airplane crashes. Somebody should warn that guy!
Cut him some slack, he was trying to take Lizzo back to town.
Isn't this at Yellow Pine, Idaho? I have flown into this airport!
One of the worse things in aviation is having your peers critiquing your lack of skills/judgement. The worse is dying from them.
Why listen to a bunch of karens in high wings when you know your aircraft
Just because the peanut gallery is critiquing you, doesn't mean they're your peers.
This is overloading an airplane at high altitude...doesn't anybody read 'Richard Bach' anymore?
Just keep the airspeed up, the rest will follow. Personally, if its hot and you are heavy, takeoff in the morning
It's IAS so the same airspeed regardless of D.A.
@peanuts2105 - you need *lift* to get over a mountain, and the two critical factors for producing lift for any given aircraft are air pressure and air temperature. The combination of high air temperature *AND* high altitude has killed a hell of a lot of pilots who failed to grasp that - and the pilot had ample room and time to realise that he was pushing his luck and abort.
As soon as I saw the thumbnail of this video, I recognized YP! Great place!
High elevation strip, over gross, or both?
Both. And taking off in the middle of a hot day.
Maybe not over gross, but 90F air temp, 5'000 alt runway, tailwind, grass, not lightly loaded, lot's of factor's stacked against the pilot this day@@ChefDuane
@@dwaynemcallister7231
Yep!
Reporter: why did you decide to take off in unfavorable conditions?
Pilot: well, I am the business manager in a company, not a doctor....
No flaps for takeoff?
Apparently not.
Just because he didn't crash doesn't mean it is advisable. Also there is still some valuable learning from this, about DA as mentioned before. Maybe it's not the done thing, but I would have looked for a pilot on the strip with more experience there and had a chat about taking off from that strip. Never hurts to ask.
i'd rather see a pilot keep it on the runway until he's almost out of it than horsing it off before it's ready to fly. Airspeed is more important than altitude, I don't care how close I come to something, if I'm flying in full control/have good airspeed. Not a Bonanza pilot so can't comment on the particulars about this clip.
I don't know the short/soft take off procedures in a v-tail bonanza, but I didn't see any flaps which are usually a part of a short/soft field take off.
It wasn't a short field, more like a density altitude situation with a loaded aircraft.
v tail, the doctor killler
Airfields like this in the mountains are no longer available for public use where they live, just emergency landings.
I could sit there all day and watch the lil planes come in and out with a cool breeze under the hot sun
The peanut gallery has no idea what’s actually going on in the cockpit. It’s hard to argue with a successful outcome.
I thought it was the fact that there are sprinklers running next to an active runway...
Love it when people make a video saying don’t do this but don’t explain why. Everything looked fine to me and makes me believe his person doesn’t know what they are talking about.
The long takeoff roll and low climb rate didn't give it away?
100% agree. Posting some information about what we’re watching and what to look for would have been really helpful for those who aren’t particularly interested in flying planes. Don’t pay attention to the naysayers.
This airfield is at about 5000 ft above sea level so the air is less dense (lower atmospheric pressure) and on a hot day the air is even less dense. This effect is known as "density altitude" or DA and has three effects on a small aircraft; 1 - the engine has less power 2- the propeller has less thrust and 3 - the wing has less lift. Trying to take off in the heat of the day with a load of passengers and luggage is flirting with death, and the hills around are littered with wreckage of those who struggled to climb out (as in this video) and failed. The clever ones are waiting for the cool of the evening or morning to depart and will do the DA calculation to see how much the performance of their aircraft is degraded.
@@karhukivi Thank you for taking the time to explain it.
The issue is with the title: "Don't do this." But don't do what? The person who posted the video didn't provide any context or explanation of what to look for. The people in the video don’t seem overly concerned either. To me, it looked more like they were evaluating his takeoff rather than reacting to a potential fatal mistake in the pilot's decision-making.
@@frankcavaciuti5947 Yes, I agree, it wasn't very informative as titles go!
I thought it was like taking off from old Kai Tak airport but towards the mountain
Was that a Doctor?
PhD in Stupidity
No, he made it, a Dr. would not have.
NEVER FORGET TO CALCULATE DENSITY ALTITUDE AND W&B !!!
This seems like a bunch of people being jealous of a Bonanza...
It did look sweet 😂
100% what it is, people with low power aircraft going Karen over someone with the bigger badder plane
I've been in and out of this strip dozens of times. My rule is to not fly after 11 am and before 6 pm. Came in one time at 4 pm totally loaded and was ok landing uphill into the wind. A go-a-round would have been scary.
Flight sims are cool huh
All well and good. But what specific airplane?
It matters for the go/no-go decision.
In fact. The only variable that matters is what can the airplane do and is the pilot in command able to get the book numbers out of it.
@@Triple_J.1 The one I was in, a 1959 172.
Don't do what?
Eat front of the camera a sandwich.
If level in low ground effect takeoff is not default, the extra acceleration energy of low ground effect will not be there when we need it. Gear is as much drag when rolling on wheels as when in low ground effect so does not have to come up quickly, or can if needed. Planning and waiting is better but default low ground effect is a good technique for disorganized or impatent pilots as well.
Jim. I agree this pilot had some skill. But he made a bad decision to takeoff at the highest DA of the day with a quartering tailwind in a loaded Bonanza with 4 adults. Good technique with a low ground effect takeoff. Good choice to head up the canyon and get some lift off the ridge from the southeasterly winds. But that’s just not good ADM. Not a lot of margin. My guess is this pilot was sweating balls after he was wheels up and this flight scared the bejesus out of him. I put it up on the channel so that people could really see the effect of DA on performance and hopefully launch on cool mornings with light loads. Give yourself lots of margin.
Yes, Josh, you are correct. I assumed he was taking off down drainage as well. Crop dusting I worked low ground effect to near the limit, but I was always single pilot.@@dogismycoolpilot9662
Sometimes a pilot gets away with it but when it's this close to disaster just wait for better conditions. If this is how the pilot always fly's he will come to a point were some unexpected wind goes against him, more margin needed I think. @@dogismycoolpilot9662
@@dogismycoolpilot9662 I would have liked to see him use elevator to get up six inches and level in low ground earlier, but complex guys don't always see than ground effect energy is greater than drag of gear. And that Mooney guy on BCP did both low ground effect and gear up. What pitching up before Vso into low ground effect tells us, should it not happen before mid point, is that we need to abort. And yes, prior planning prevents pitifully poor performance. I was a pipeline patrol pilot. We flew in wind, heat of day, and low ceilings. High DA might require down drainage, as did the Bonanza, and then come back around to the pipeline right of way. Glad this came up again. Miss your comments.
At least they turned on the sprinklers during his departure, that helped cool it down a bit.... On another note, 0:25 that lady is sucking back some wine and chomping on an oversized ham sammie.... I mean, dayuumm that's a big sammie!!! 😶
"There are skeletons of planes in the bushes" .. I'm dead this group sounds like such a nice people to be around .. also I just woke up and that sandwich really looks good .. I'm hungry now 🤣
The old 150 I owned for 20 years climbed out better than that on its worse day. There sure must have been some High / hot issues going on to make Bonanza wallow away like that.
They are in Idaho so that probably doesn’t help.
It was Bob Menendez. He had a load of gold bars for emergencies.
The one I flew had a hard time on a hot day in Cincinnati.
🤣🤣👍👍@@failranch9542
Now that's funny. Thank you for that, I needed a laugh this morning.... @@failranch9542