Is the Behind the Neck Press DANGEROUS?? Technique, Safety, and Strategy
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2020
- The behind the neck press is one of the oldest compound upper body builders and the point of much contention. Here, I break down how to do the behind the neck barbell press for shoulder development and strength, is it dangerous or safe, and discuss how to avoid pitfalls and injury when doing this movement.
this is a pretty good guide. according to most articles I’ve read, your shoulders will instantly explode if you do this exercise. I also find that, done light, these are a great warmup for those of us who have trouble getting under a squat bar.
Ed Coan’s 405 seated behind neck press would argue that this will not happen!
Explode in what way
oh I agree, having the flexibility to do these will help your other lifts too.
Yeah... Explode in size lol I feel it so much more in the shoulders that standard ohp
@@pyrrosdimas5798 that's the question!
If he meant "explode [in size]" or "explode [the joint]." I took it as size but might mean joint, no idea
Weightlifter here. Best BTN press is 90kg, strict, in a snatch grip. No issues whatsoever provided you have sufficient shoulder mobility and adequate posterior deltoid strength.
I had scapular winging when I started lifting and would start getting shoulder impingement on OHP at about 65-75lbs. I read a Jamie Lewis article about BTNP and he argued BTNP promote shoulder health and started implementing them. I did bar only super setted with bent over rows for about a month or two before I added weight to the press. Never had any shoulder issues since then.
Same with btn for me. I have shoulder injuries and scapular winging that I’m trying to rehab and I started doing btn with a 20 pound bar with ultra strict form. I’ve OHPd 115 but the 20 pound bar was so challenging because of my weak stabilizers and I really felt them working during the exercise. I’m wondering though, how’d you manage to do barbell rows with scapular winging? My shoulder keeps rolling forward at the top of the movement.
@@danteghazizadeh1656 I started with just the bar in bent over position dead hang and would do scapular retractions. Once that felt better I did the actual rowing movement.
I had been doing that before I implemented BTNPs.
Yes finally a man with the balls to recommend the BTN press. I seen Magnus Ver Magnusson BTN press 200 Kilo for 2 reps. Ed Coan did over 400 lbs with it and preached it. I lower them to bottom of my ears and the raise 3/4 lockout. This feels like where the side delt/upper back tension is at and not too stretched... It's weights not a yoga competition. I keep front delts out of it. The best way I found to get shoulders better is progressive overload with 20 reps. Forces a lighter weight, and then once you do significant weight with 20 reps, shoulders are strong enough for 8 reps.
I still do them and have new guys do them... And the other behind the neck movement, it hits the side head different... And get them high... Do it controlled and lighter weight your good...
@@kennethforeman1400 It definitely hits the side head different to any other press! Doing these with light weights and going for a pump put more width on my shoulders than any other exercise.
Kevin levrone built massive shoulders doing these, I do them seated in a power rack
Ive used BTN press as rehab for shoulder pain from benching and just general strength and prehab exercise. If i got shoulder impingement doing some BTNP cures it everytime. This exercise is a gift from the gods!
Exactly... I just do it 1 x week with light weights
Same here
I've torn my shoulder labrum (was definitely NOT checking those boxes when I first started training), and I still get a twinge there every now and then. Using BTN as a warmup has never given me issues though, whereas benching certainly has.
Interesting that you like starting from the front. I've always done these like Klokov, but over time I can see that catching up to you. Great tip
btnp is healing my shoulder impingement that I have had for 5 years!!!
My technique tips: Go all the way down as if you were about to squat. Elbows forward (activates your posterior chain). Press up and back. Slowly down and repeat. Also start very light to build mobility.
Great video, never done these, airways been scared. I'll give them a shot when gyms reopen. Very light, and mainly just because hopefully it can improve my shoulder mobility a bit, because it's pretty bad!
I feel with enough stretching and the right ROM I can feel this excersise on my top and my rear shoulder. Feels really different but great.
This was a well done video. Thank you. I generally discourage novices from using this move because of all the reasons you stated. So many people have shoulder issues as they get older it takes a serious amount of time to work through all those issues before they could even do a behind the neck press with any comfort at all.but thank you for doing this video.
This guy deserves more subscribers!
"I've done a set of 30 before"
welp I was proud of my set of 10
Bromley, your explanation jives with my almost 30 years of lifting. I will emphasize that weak rear delts and a tendency to elevate (shrug) while pressing are typical contraindications to BTN pressing. I like to warm up with Bradford presses (bar only) to test/stretch/prep my shoulders. Then I will front press (heavy) followed by BTN drop sets for volume. Works well and my shoulders get the most compliments in the gym.
Also, my first day working out at age 16 someone had me BTN press 95lbs at 120 BW with no warm up. I got hurt. I've also gotten s grade 1 labral tear in my shoulder years after that (no surgery). I'm 45 now and as long as my mobility and form are good, pressing BTN is no problem. Also, BTN pulldowns are a good complement as a warmup or opposing superset.
@@godzoo18 sorry to hear that. My grandfather smoked 60 years and had no problems. In fact, his health only decline when the doctor had him quit at 78... he passed away at 89 and not from cancer or lung issues... good genetics, I guess.
Thank you your videos are very informative. Can you post something on relative % programming?
I do this because I cannot do front presses or even side laterals due extreme pain (maybe due to impingement). Press behind neck is fixing it, it gives me no pain at all, and is building my delts. But I am so weak at it, because shoulder pain has stopped me from pressing for so many years. I think that this is a good movement.
I feel it in my shoulders wayyy more with btnP !!
I spent a few weeks doing this once a week for a few sets of 10 with 85lbs and suddenly saw my rear delt popping up in a way it never had before. I no longer care if my joints winds up fucked. It's worth it
Hahahaha this made me laugh 😂
I tried the BTN version on a deload. I touched my traps because ROM, but yeah even 95 lbs that low gave me bad pain in the shoulder the next morning. Had no thoughts it was "inherently bad" like some biomechanic "experts" say it is, but it doesn't have much purpose in the plan. Now the other stigmatized shoulder builder - upright row - has never caused problems and is fantastic for not just side delts and traps, but even forearm and brachii muscles.
I've seen huge guys do it but they only go to their lower ear. If your goal is size I don't think you need all that ROM
@@JGD185 I actually do BTN press to the traps now painfree.The reason they don't is that they lack mobility usually.
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 I didn't try 95 lbs as a "deload" - I tried 55 lbs as a workset and went from there. Also I flared elbows a lot more.
Your technique might have been bad, like your scapular motion or stability or some thing
95 pounds is also pretty heavy to start off
Only ever injured myself in front presses-behind the neck presses are so much more stable and take the rotator cuff out of the equation for a large part of the range of motion. After many years and many injuries I only can now press behind the neck in front caused way too much pain-behind gives me zero pain. And I don’t go lower than eye level no need to
Nice that you've got a teespring store. Easier on the shipping for people in the UK like me
I started working these with light weight high volume, my shoulders feel great
I alway do 3-4 sets of mixed OHP and PBN, moderate weights at slow speeds, done after flat BP/ incline BP, and dips, and sometimes after a pre- exhaust with lateral raises, sometimes vice versa. ( shoulders burn quite nicely if doing 4 sets of presses, then immediately going to side laterals…!)
thank you so much !
This made me think about behind the neck movements in general. Stuff like the behind the neck lat pull down or behind the back trap pulls. I wonder how beneficial all of these can be as a new angle to work at.
I’d recommend FIRST focusing on functional mobility through full range. This is a great exercise to maintain mobility, shoulder health and longevity, and big capped delts. If you don’t use it you lose it.
"Old man bodybuilding or whatever he is doing now" lol daaaaaamn, shots fired. I agree, I used to love Paul's stuff (especially his blog) but now he throws up a lot of gimmicky shit on his instagram. He still preaches the basics with progression and getting stronger and what not but every damn video he posts is him doing some weird as "hypertrophy" movement.
Overhead squat builds good stability in the overhead rack position. Try one snatch and 3 OH squats. Stretching beforehand with shoulder dislocates is a good habit. Starting the press sets with just a technique bar is sane. Lowering to just the back of the upper skull is a good start.
Back in highschool i had issues with my shoulders because of BTNP. It was fine for about 2 years. And then it didn't. Based from what doctors told me (they had me do some scans in some partially open machine, very loud) was something about joint sockets being damaged every time i do BTNP.
It was something how socket was shaped. Something in the edge was sticking out. I don't remember anymore.
might be your achromion bone
I still have seen great gains going down to lower ear level, not ALL the way down on these presses. I will try to eventually go lower once I have done the movement long enough.
It could be dangerous not to go all the way down. If you fail a rep and the bar drops back down to full range of motion that you are not used to, you can be injured
Break & spread the bar while shoulder press correct?
I really like doing Klokov press
Lu raises help with shoulder mobility
Hey I'm 3 months late, but thanks for this suggestion. My OHP felt so much smoother when I tried this in between sets.
maybe some people can do this but definetly not me. sometimes i even get shoulder pain from going all the way to my chest in incline benchpress.
You have inpingement. Get a stick and put it on your shoulder and grab it with the other hand and lever it up each day a bit for each hand. Whether you do bnp or not you need to fix it or you will eventually have a tear
@@LTPottenger saying this from one sentence... No i dont have impingment
Since I've been doing BTN, I've stopped getting pain in my shoulder when I flat barbell bench. Shoulders now feel bullet proof from only using light weight.
Is this the best excersise for the shoulders and back? as i feels like it
Alex! what program would you recommend for getting back to the gym after the covid layoff. Thought it would be a good vid to do for those that are in the same situation with no gym access. Keep it up!!
behind neck pullUps+behind neck OHP very good if you can do it)
If you do this at the end of a shoulder / upper body day you'll find you're warmed up and ready for it.
They feel great after bench press.
Never met a Bromley I did not like.
Shout out to Marty and Chris.
Miss you loons.
I did these very light, like 30kg, slow, tried to feel for any problems or pain. Felt a stretch and felt difficult, but no major problems. After a few weeks, I felt the beginnings of impingement, lifting my arms above face level caused pain/weakness etc.
Impingement caught that early is easy to rehab and after a few weeks it was back to normal. but this idea or you can't get hurt if you do it smart and don't go too heavy... i dunno, I tried it in a very responsible way, it's just bad for some people I think. You have to have the mobility and start young.
I didn't start young but I started with just the barbell and took really slow progression. No problems so far but much better shoulder mobility and stability.
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 lmao 🤣
👍
When i was 17 and my joints were at their best, this exercise hurt me to go down below middle of my head, now at 48 ill keep em in front lol. You young guys can press behind the neck!
@Mark Parks side delt+traps too?
But is the movement worth it when u can't just front press and do shoulder raises?
@markparks what do u tgink is better for side delts and rear delts behind the neck press or regular press
Whats the purpose of doing them?
Wondering as well. Even if they don't hurt me they seem really awkward to do
look at the video ATHLEAN-X does discussing this movement and why exactly it is not good in the long run. which in turn gives it no purpose.
I used it for many years for working the shoulders without quite the emphasis on front delts (debatable). No problems, but now I'm old and can't even shoulder press. If you have good shoulders and don't start when you're old, it's fine if used with care. The body adapts to movement if the load is adjusted gradually.
James Lind A-X is not a strength coach and his tips on strength training is atrocious, don’t listen to that guy. I don’t have det time to back up my argument, so just check out curlean-x.
It's the best exercise I've found for the rear delt. Amazing results and no downside
The biggest shoulder breaker is ignoring the reasons you can’t behind the neck press
Would Smolov work for overhead press?
@@jakerichards8344 I’d even say this with regular smolov. Years ago, It got my squat from 350 to 425 in 6 weeks (no joke I followed the program strictly, I was set to do 400 but actually got 425). I ended up being dumb and not doing the second 6 weeks because I was happy with that gain. Went back to a regular squat program and after a month I lost everything I gained lol.
I like the focus and stress on technique....if you try to use “body english” you are just compromising your health. Now for truth - I am guilty of all these mistakes!
Is that a distal bicep tear I’m seeing
Sir these aren't mixed grip deadlifts
His left arm not the exercise
His left arm not the exercise
Do you really need big delts to stand motionless holding a fishing rod by the pond at the end of the garden?
Gnomes these days...
*** DO NOT EVER DO THIS EXERCISE *** FWIW, I'm a Chiro who practiced 18 yrs, retired and now currently work as an Advanced EMT in an ER. With that said, as a 54 yr old who had 3 rotator cuff surgeries AND a partial shoulder replacement (ball replaced) I can say with confidence (with formal education in biomechanics, anatomy and physiology etc) the behind the neck press literally holds ZERO advantages to front presses, military presses, DB presses.......ZERO, NONE, NADA.
The only argument I've heard is, the movement doesn't hurt and I want to maintain felxibility....ok great....THEN STRETCH!!! People don't understand the stress you're placing on little tiny muscles (referred to as SIT supraspinatus, infraspinatus and teres minor......teres major and subscapularis play a role as well). It's those little stabilizer muscles that cannot handle the weight (not to mention the horrific shoulder rotation). Regardiing my situation, I thought everything was fine, had zero pain, great flexibility and could move some weight (sets of 225lb and up a bit)....little did I know I STILL damaging my shoulder joint as the joint grew weaker, I was developing little bone spurs, that shut down the space the supraspinatus has and the spurs (called osteophytes) slowly tore the muscle. There is NO reason at all to do this exercise.....NONE, ZERO, it has NO pros versus cons.
It wasn’t meant for you, but some very accomplished athletes practice this lift and do it heavy without issue
Extra risk no extra reward
Wrong
less risk, extra reward
Youre cutting range of motion at the bottom
Your face is cutting range of motion at the bottom.
Stay away from this exercise people. I screwed up my shoulder from doing it.
skill issue
this is not actually true though (about delt activation). put your hand on your shoulder and then move your arm into that externally rotated position, your rear delts can't turn on because of the position of your clavicle and scapula/AC. its still a mostly front delt movement, only now you've placed your shoulder joint in a highly vulnerable position to load. try failing with heavy weight in this position - rotator cuff is snap city. and if you're especially gifted and drop it on your c-spine you could seriously hurt yourself. this is a bro move that needs to die
The rear delts can't 'turn on'? I don't even know what that means.
They are contracted in this position wheras they are stretched throughout a front press. Even if they don't directly contribute to upward motion, the bunching of the muscle creates compression that is involved in changing direction and stabilizing and that creates a training stress. It's similar to the way the lats are used (and can sometimes get sore) from military pressing even though the lats don't lift the weight.
The medial delt is used much more as well.
Behind the neck work has been a staple of bodybuilders, powerlifters and Oly lifters for something like 7 decades, so your classification of it as a 'bro lift', as well as your use of the term 'snap city', makes your judgment sus. Like, that's how you know it goes from expereince or that's how you kind of imagine it would probably go?
I've met literally hundreds of lifters who have sustained injury/overuse issues from benching yet no one would recommend scrapping that. I'm not sure where all the victims of behind the neck pressing are but they are few and far between.
50 times safer to just do them on the front of your body
Except that behind the neck works all areas of shoulder vice primarily front delts with OHP..; one can stick with lighter weights by pre-exhausting with dumbbell side laterals immediately before…
@@mdd1963 yeah i just know too many people they’ve ruined their rotary cup doing this. I use to love this workout. Lol…, but yes dumbbells are better