Why You Shouldn't Max Every Workout - Central Nervous System (CNS) Fatigue and Maximal Training
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- There's a lot of controversy around CNS Fatigue and strength training. This is a breakdown of some of the training observations we make with maximal training and how it corresponds to the timing of training and peaking.
I been maxing out every workout for the past 36 years, and I am benching 123.25 lbs... So I think I know what I am doing, Brah...
Nah that's steroids you dont get to those numbers natty
@@llucaristondoalzina2061 I never claimed to be natty... My father induced puberty when I was 11 with a huge Trenbolone cycle, and I been on it ever since.
Lbs. or Kilos ? If it's pounds, you need to get to work !
@@stefanomagaddino6868 It's satire.
Hey if you started at age 70 that's pretty good gramps!
To further credit this video: I was stuck at a 315 bench for 6+ months because I was training to RPE 9.5-10 on every bench session thinking that I needed to push myself that hard to grow. I then started training in the RPE 7-8 range and I went from 315 to 335 in 3 weeks.
How can you determine your RPE? I’ve always just tried to increase the weight or at least reps from last time, I don’t know how to differentiate between 70% of my max effort and 90%
@@lewiswilson4083 It's gonna be weight and reps. If you are hitting doubles and you cant do more, you are probably over 90%. If you do a set of 10 and feel that you could have done 20, you are way below 90%. Use previous sets to gauge where you are at and be honest with yourself.
Not sure exactly what you were doing but that was basically just overtraining
Fuck so me deadlifting 90% my max for as much reps as I could literally every 2-3 days is a bad thing??? I’m 16yo if that helps
@@acrylex4663 max out every other week if you gotta constantly gauge that PR. Age helps recovery but won't turn you into superman lol
As a cyclist, I have to say accumulated fatigue is a real deal. If you go hard day after day and try to do one of your first work outs, you will not be able to do it.. You need rest to accumulate the results of your effort days.
Unless you’re a Bulgarian weightlifter.
Good ol Bulgarians
You know he talks about them from 7:01 right?
You got burned
You ever thought of teaching high school when you're older? You have a great combo of an easy to understand breakdown and an aggression/ego free respect commanding presence. In a bad neighbourhood especially you'd be changing lives left and right. Obviously by then you'll be stinking rich and doing it outta' the kindness of your heart...
Real talk
Agreed. 👍🏽
Yeah people on the bulgarian method hit a wall fast and the ones who come out elite are on all kinds of gear. Cns burnout sucks and a years worth of work can go down the drain fast . One moment something is super easy an you can smash it for a set of 5 an the next you can barley break it off the floor . That sucks . Every since i started managing cns my lifts have took off
Bromley consistently blends the research he reads with his real world experience. There’s always great content, delivered well and this one is no exception.
100% agree
Hi Alexander, Your outstanding education and information in regards to all things programming has helped me break a 3 year hiatus in my front squat! 50 years old and hit a 200kg front squat which I thought I’d never do again! I’ve read a lot about different styles of programming and having you consolidate it so well on your videos makes planning training so much easier! Thank you 🙏
I’m just a skinny little runner guy and this definitely helps for my running training also. Thank you! Great vid
Used to be me then I started going hard at lifting. Now I’m a runner/lifter, skinny lean and benching well over my body weight, stronger than most guys “bigger” than me in my gym.
Brom. I can’t heavy deadlift, even high rep 20 rep style more than once a week. But, I can add hardstyle amrap kb swings as many days as I want. Seems like strength endurance work is not as unfriendly to my cns. My current 20 rep squat is great for me because I can do it twice weekly. My thought is that grip stress is highly CNS affective. Oly lifts just don’t reach deadlift weights, so the grip is spared ultra high stress. Also, from my arm wrestling, I have learned that ligament and tendon stress takes about two weeks to recover from. Seems to me a deload is a hack for everything besides muscle. You once talked about a phase where you let the rest of you catch up to the muscles.
Bro who in the fuck does 20 rep sets on deadlifts? Do you want to get hurt that badly?
Literally THE best strength training channel I've ever found - this man needs millions of subs 💙
The "dark matter" may very much be tendons and how much the CNS is used in literally everything else in daily life. Especially when you make your body more fast twitch based, the nerves are gonna be just as fast- all the time. We know that fast twitch fibres need more rest than slower ones and elite athletes have more fast twitch. I think that's why advanced lifters need more rest. I dunno tho🤷🏾
Very fair and balanced video. I hear CNS fatigue ALL the time, when it's likely largely something else most of the time, for most people. No doubt that it exists and is real, but there's not a whole lot of evidence for it either. Perhaps it's something that science will catch up with the bros on. Or perhaps not.
Often, I think systemic inflammation, peripheral issues and joint stress are more important factors, especially for some lifts.
Very impressed that you've both read those studies and can still recognize that it doesn't really matter because in the real world it does take far longer.
Not the Jeff of athleanx but the honest one
@@roymustang.595 It's not hard to be more honest than him :)
I’m a jujitsu blue belt and I maxed on squat and bench 2 weeks in a row and when I went to jujitsu class during those weeks I was sloppy, tired, and felt myself thinking of movements I used to do subconsciously. I took a week off and I completely bounced back. This helped me a lot
I enjoy the way you explain how things "look" and not just what they mean. Very accessible and helpful, even for concepts with which I am already familiar.
I think CNS is the sum of all variables. The brain takes, muscle, tendon, ligament, hormone, nutrient, sleep, etc. data and spits out a yes/no verdict on a particular effort. That's my theory. No charge. 😉
A pretty neat take!
Great Info man, I’m surprised you don’t have way more subscribers
He's getting there, though 👍
UA-cam algorithm (aka humanity) does not promote good content, only clickbait bullsh*t pseudoscience or cringy low brow scams.
@@GVS enter V-Shred... 💩
@@AberrantArt yup...the sh*te content floats to the top, and the good stuff you really have to dig for. It sucks.
Just subscribed! Great channel!
Another top tier video, stacked with golden information. This guy deserves at least 10x the subs he's currently got!
you forgot another 0
Your body thinks you are attacked by a lion every week so not surprising
That CNS thing is no joke no wonder my bench kept going back I saw very little progression
What did you do to fix it?
What did you do to fix it?
@Manu Dada Thanks for your reply.
So muscles take 48 hours to recover what about the CNS how much does it take to recover when it's completely burnt out.
Need an answer to this
Thanks Bromley. Love your channel and feel it is the best source of info and there is nothing else like it. I feel like there is a disagreement on what causes CNS fatigue between you and some other sources of info like Mark Rippetoe. I’ve seen others comment the driving force of CNS fatigue being too much volume over time but it looks like you are saying it’s working at too high an intensity over time. Am I right to say y’all are at odds on this subject and which is right? Can high volume bring on CNS fatigue as well or is it intensity driven only?
But Couch Blaha maxes every workout and he is textbook example of peak performance!
And peak condition
Cranking out insertion vids daily for his ever growing GFP audience would be far more taxing to the CNS than a 1 x 1 weekly set of squats with fake plates I suspect.
Coath can reverse bench press 500 lbs
@@Jmack7861 I calculate his current Wilks at about 105, so find his recent claim of approaching a world record masters lifter total a little dubious..
I think his total is in neighborhood of 1500+ which is pretty good for his weight/age.
Cns fatigue is the inability of the muscles to contract due to golgi tendon inhibition...or more specificlly a blockage of the gate for the kreb cycle to well cycle specificallyin the myoglobin. The best way to measure it is by grip strength.
I wish i knew this much sooner, always felt like a poser not going hard enough but it’s actually hurting any progress rather than attributing to it
how does eric bugenhagen do it (who i believe is natty)
He doesn’t do the exact same movement every time, he doesn’t max the same lift every day(squat every day, dead every day etc) and when he does it’s usually a different variation or short term doing the same lift for a max each time. Also he is that strong on dead’s or squats(I love him and he’s strong don’t get me wrong, but by no means elite)
@@Jmack7861 he mostly does do the same lift but usually its an oddball life like zercher deads he never does conventional deads. He has done squats tho and if youve been following him hes been doing bench and managed to add over 50 pounds to his bench in like less than 2 months i believe
Jacob McNaughton still not long term though, and for instance with the odd ball lifts like zerchers the noob gains still apply to an extent because it’s a new stimulus. I mean he’s treading a fine line but not technically doing the exact same lift to 100% every day which is enough variation in stimulus for him to be able to progress for even a few months. Think about west side for instance, the difference between max dead’s with bands and max dead’s with chains isn’t much but just enough.
He rotates movements a lot and doesn't go to a true max until the could of very last days at a movement. He also does more X-rep maxes than you would think, for much more than 5 reps.
He also gets injured a lot, so bear that in mind.
ITS A HORRIBLE FEELING ITS A HORRIBLE FEELING ITS A HORRIBLE FEELING
oh man... I just ... Can't wait to replenish. But it'll take a few days. Its so bad you almost think you're going crazy.
3hrs full... Body workout.... Calisthenics and heavy weight lifting....
I want to sleep.
So if I’ve been doing a lot of one rep max work for the past couple months and have been very fatigued, train like a bodybuilder for a week or two to recover?
did you try it? and did it work? because i’m in your situation right now
Sounds like he doesn't want the studies on cbs to be true, thinking that a bodies neurological response to same stimulus is different after greater number of years than it is in just a few. Like he just hoping it's different because of all the work put in. Your muscle responds to electrical stimulus, your body only activates what it needs at a given time. Learn to send a stronger electric pulse to more fibers at once and someone with less muscle mass than him could lift the same muscle mass is just potential power storage, I wonder how much more the dude in the video could lift if it was safe to use a variable electric muscle stimulator to take the mind out of the equation.
kinda confused here bro so do we do 11-14 days between rep sets too ? Let's say for deadlifts, but I'll also squat once between then which I'll squat every 11 days as well. THANKS for any input from anyone much appreciated god bless!
Lol I get flashbacks to when I started training and was deadlifting 3× a week 😂 of course I was weak enough that I could actually do it, deadlifting 245 for a 5x5 or something, but once my deadlift numbers got too the 365-405lbs range, I stalled HARD. And Im like "damn why havent I been able to go up in weight for the past 2 months!?!"
Lol of course, like many of us, i learned about programming and CNS fatigue, and a lot of the stuff in this video... then I started deadlifting once a week and doing accessory work (RDLs, Rows, etc) on days in between and wahlah, like magic, my numbers started going up again 😂
Its funny because it might seem obvious now, but we're all learning still, right?
That Bulgarian system works but u have to rely on instinctive schedule.ok if your a solo lifter like me. But better really stay in tune with your body
How much of this applies to body building? I do AMRAP on all of my main sets with moderate weight and push for a high rep range on my accessory work. Deload a week after 3 weeks. Repeat. Only training each muscle twice a week on a 5 day split. Haven't had a problem yet.
Muscle tissue can be regenerated in days.
Nerves can be regenerated in... well, months or years.
How do I know? I asked a long-term good doctor, and I've been doing all kinds of workouts, including basic gym stuff. And I have two nerves at least somewhat damaged, limiting the range of motion of one of my feet. It has been like that for two years now, that nerve, for me, and it can be regenerated faster if you know how, with both diet and meditative exercise (Tai Chi like with meditative element).
You can toss on all the science you like, but that's bs tbh. Experience is the best science, and I have that!
All hail our lord sheiko and his insight well ahead into the future. DO SUBMAXIMAL WORK!
Why hasn’t this caught on with bodybuilders?
If you max out every week you probably you're beginner or you just don't know what you're doing..ive seen natural guys do that..I believe every 5-6 weeks it's necessary for strength even hypertrophy programs to do a deload week to relax a little bit do more stretches let your joints repair, heal..
One of the most balanced and informative lifting breakdowns I've seen in a long time! Thanks.
Good ass breakdown. I’ve been feeling mad tired the last few days (as I write this) so I wanted to do some research again.
Lillibridge approach seems more logical to me. I don't use deload because I lift weights only twice a week so enough recovery time.
I feel like I'm in a masters class for strength & conditioning and I fucking love it!
@ Alexander Bromley, what is the difference between nervous system and systemic fatigue?
I ask b/c I wiped myself out this week and would like to diagnose what I did and how to facilitate faster / better recovery.
I'm 48yo and got back into the gym for the first time in over a decade a month and a half ago. I was feeling really good and getting stronger. This Monday I actually went heavier than I have since getting back in the gym. The very next day I woke up feeling like I'd been hit by a truck; I was cranky, irritable, tired and worn out. It was hard to think and I ached down deep in my glutes and hips. It was so bad that I couldn't sleep due to discomfort. Do you know what that is and is it avoidable with periodic de-loads?
Cheers and thanks.
Sounds like you have gone too hard, too soon. Take your time start light and low volume, slowly build your way back up week to week. Best way to avoid overdoing it and needing time off the gym. Best way to progress long term is being consistent and avoiding injury.
I've only say my cns is fatigued when I max out and feel like not doing anything else and also a bit of shaking I've experienced not sure if that's true or not, also once i deload which I'm doing let's see how going heavy again happens
I have a big problem with CNS fatigue. I am a late novice, bordering on intermediate lifter. In the past, I've gone into full CNS overtraining from doing heavy deadlifts every week. I've recently moved 3 of my 6 weekly barbell row sets to sundays, after squats, and added some bicep work and some heavy db exercises I hadn't done in a while (partial lateral raises, rear raises) after the first three on wednesdays. I think it's too much, though my muscles can keep up, and I have inarguable and severe symptoms. The past few nights, though I'm always very tired, it's taken me about 2 hours to fall asleep, and then I wake up about 4 ½ hours later (always around 5:30 AM) and can't fall back asleep for another 2½-3 hours. I spend as much as 14 hours of the day in bed and only get around 7 hours of sleep. I genuinely need 10 or more each night. I work hard and I'm a young lifter who was inactive before he started lifting about 21 months ago. Yesterday was that row and bicep day and despite my poor sleep the night before, I still performed very well. I did feel it in my nerves somewhat, but I figured it was at an okay level. Yet, I had that horrible experience hardly sleeping. I urgently need to figure out how, other than just relaxing, taking a break from training, and lowering my stress, I can stop spending 35 hours or more/week trying to fall asleep. I can't make any gains like this and I can't even live life like this.
Melatonin may help you, 1mg helps me, some people take 10mg, if you're already taking it I'm sorry and good luck
Hey bro I have the same issue your describing! That with insane strength feats and progression but TERRIBLE SLEEP QUALITY. Did you find a solution??
I think of this as my qi (chi) energy getting depleted... not very scientific, but still ...
Hey brother, if I sent you a copy of my schedule/programming, would you be willing to give me some advice on it? Not sure if you actually take clients and what not, but I'd be willing to pay you.
If you body take 14 day to recover than traing same lifts between necessary?
Thanks for recommending Alexander Bromley
Just an academic question. So changing the rep range is why Wendler 531 gets away with going AMRAP every session? If someone decided to just do 5s week 3 times in a row (or even 6 times in a row since Wendler now suggests deloading only every other cycle) instead of varying the load at which they AMRAP, would they get a considerably worse outcome than if they ran Wendler as written?
531 percentages are much lower (remember the 90% training max), so it spends a considerable amount of time with high/medium reps that are well below the max effort threshold. The change in percentage creates a tangible increase in stimulus every week, giving you time to grow before dropping back and repeating the same threshold, where ideally an increase in strength leads to more reps performed which is, again, another increase in stimulus. You could absolutely do 5s 6 weeks in a row, adding a small amount of weight, thats just a simple linear progression. It doesn't work for as long with more developed lifters, so the need for variety and hard efforts spaced further apart is why you see more variation in these types of programs
@@AlexanderBromley So an all out set of say 10 reps isn't as hard to recover from as a heavy single or a double. got it. Thanks for the detailed answer, I appreciate it.
I suddenly got a nose bleed and shortness of breah after maxing out for months straight and my performance dropped too
When u say max, are we talking about a 1rm or could it be a 5rm?
Max = 90% RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion), reps don't necessarily matter, but it's probably going to be 1-3 as the CNS is hit more substantially with heavier weight
I’ve been going hard at the gym for a while these past 2 months I haven’t got stronger , every set I do let’s say my set of 12 on my 12th set I barely get it up I do everything almost to failure , but I’m not getting stronger , why ?
I’m 16 btw and do a 6 day splut
Maybe overdoing it. If that's the case: Try taking a week off, then come back with lighter weights and starting off 3 reps away from failure and add weight slightly every week - eventually you'll be back to training to failure, but with more weight than before the deload. The hard part for you will probably be resisting the urge to do the last 3 reps - but just watch what happens to your strength when you take it easier.
gracefool that’s what I did this week , my body feels so much better
@@dagoat5064 Nice. Remember to build up again gradually. You want slow consistent gains.
I came for the neuroscience, and even though you didn't go as deep on it as I was expecting for, everything you presented was still interesting to listen. Thank you for the video.
You seriously got my subscription.
Appreciate it. I'm certainly not qualified to talk about the neuroscience but this is something any long term lifter will encounter
@@AlexanderBromley please redo this video with a more digestible presentation and go a bit deeper in neuroscience even if surface level
maybe collab with Dr Israetel?
@@AlexanderBromley make a video about maximizing hypertrophy movements with minimal CNS stimulus for those who have CFS or other CNS diseases
Wilson Anthony White Kevin Thompson William
Harris Jason Davis Jennifer Robinson Anthony
EXACTLY. Muscles recovery quickly.
But people are different. Due to genetics and stress. Resting is paramount. Don't go full out until you feel 100
Great video I personally think if you have access to specialty bars alternating different lift might conjugate style can be very good idea if you are more advanced because different bars carryover to your main lift and variations. If your sumo deadlift goes up your conventional will also go up.
Hey Alex, question. If I wanted to get stronger on the ohp would training dips help if I’m already doing ohp in the week?
Yes, dips are a fantastic upper body exercise and press accessory
Between March and August of this year I kept getting colds and I'm someone who maybe gets that one yearly week-long cold, nothing else. I started going to the gym September 2022, started programming and journaling my progress in March 2023, apart from that I work a very physical job and like hard physical labour and cycling.
I can't say these colds came from cns fatigue or whatever it may have been but I cannot find any other explanation than that my training was too hard on my system. I started autoregulating since then and haven't been sick at all since. I stopped doing Deadlifts and do RDLs instead, most of the time I'll do 3 instead of 4 sets of squats and rdls. I very rarely do singles but I like low rep ranges for the big compound lifts so I despise dropping weight from what I used in a previous workout.
I can't say I'm being optimal, I have no idea, I've been progressing satisfyingly well everywhere except for bench. Chest is a seemingly unfixable issue for me, I have a good phase of very satisfying chest performance and suddenly there's a complete crash and my chest ceases to function, I don't experience this with any other muscle and it's enormously frustrating. For the last 2 weeks it seems that my right chest has been over stretched or something (on db pullovers???) since it hurts slightly at the bottom of a bench press rom so I have been focusing on OHP. I believe for average lifters deloads can usually be avoided by auto regulating your workouts and other sporty activities and making sure your rest is sufficient
Forgive me, I'm trying to understand.... So, you want CNS fatigue in order to increase strength? What happens if we increase the CNA fatigue and leave ourselves open to adrenaline fatigue as well? With the nervous system impaired, doesn't it raise our chances of getting sick, flu like symptoms, body aches?
Garcia Patricia Martinez Sarah Taylor Linda
Can Walking 7-8 miles every day for 6 months cause CNS fatigue?
Lol, no probably not
"Seems to be evidence" ???
Seems to be opinion.
Got it, I will be starting the Bulgarian death march protocol immediately. Looking forward to "the dark times."
Wait, if this is true, why do all the instagram influencers and ifb professionals max out every week?
Great explanation of this confusing phrase/term - thank you!
Hey, for anyone interested, just workout too heavy too often and your guaranteed to destroy your T Levels, Adrenal Glands and CNS 😢 👍
Always followed 2 weeks volume 1 week hell.. never had issues hell week is max weight splits every session starts off with deads and farmers walks
The Bioneer brought me here
i only workout heavy, and in the corona times with limited movement opportunities, i fucking killed my cns.
i dont mind overreaching, but when i only do deadlift, squat, bench and shoulder press for 2 months, u kinda want to fucking die.
@@haugealx how'd u fix the sleep interruptions bro
How do I figure out what my optimal recovery time is?
I just started weightlifting again. I'm 31 now and never experienced the types of problems I have now when I was in my early-mid 20s.
Now, when I train legs heavy (Squat Deadlift), I end up getting sick if I do not basically rest for the rest of the week. If I miss out on any sleep or have to work too many hours, I'll get sick. Also, after these heavy workouts I will be unable to sleep for a night or two, from what I'm guessing is cns overstimulation. Makes it pretty difficult to start getting my numbers back up. Feels like taking 1 step forward, 2 steps backward.
Make sure you lift very early morning so you can ride the CNS high all day and crash at the end of the day. Stay away from digital screens at least 2h before bed. Meditate. Also try supplementing with some melatonin to get deep sleep
Over production of adrenaline and cortisol.
Me too!!!
Same here with 40 heavy Leg Training "killing me" no solution yet
hey alex, when you say maximal attempts… is this 1rm specifically? does this apply to 5rm’s as well?
If you’re not ego lifting every lift you’re not making gainz brah
Bulgarian death march is my style...I'm so fucking tired
And it’s not CNS… it’s PNS fatigue. But same idea.
I have always had a week central nervous system, people need to understand everyone’s body is different, this video makes a lot of sense
Really enjoy the no nonsense, no hype approach to your teaching. Thanks!
Gotta max out for instagram
This is what i need to hear! Always top content and guidance
I keep coming back to your information. Tangible but deep can you approach communication a very tactile way I appreciate the info
I superset deadlifts with front squats 5x5. Been waking up at 4am and cant get back to sleep. Waking up with headaches and pain in the back of eyes as though Im hungover. Getting cold sweats
Great information man. Huge stress on body to point I get keloid scars. Second I rest the body the keloid deflates. I go heavy 4 days a week with run every day. My body never rested too.
Alexander, this is great information. It answers the mystery for me. I knew recovery takes only a few days, so why was I regressing even after a week between lifts and why does the weight feel so heavy? And I also observed, like you said, it's different for each lift. Some lifts still feel good, while others regress. So, what do you do if you've gotten into a rut like this? Do you just back off or switch stimulus for the weak lifts while keeping the others that are working on an upward trajectory?
why isnt this guy more famous wtf he has some f***** amazing content, its very rare to see people that really understand what this guy talks about in this level and is able to explain it so well
Nailed it again sir 💓😂🔥🔥🔥🔥
As someone who was a competive swimmer until 18yrs old, in a small city in a latin america country ( had almost no structure to train or qualified coaches there) i kind of got used to things like the Bulgarian death march, and that's is the regimen i am following for while now that I'm into powerlifting, i think it is great to train your mental strength ( I already had a bit menta strength due to my previous training) but it's still challenging to do this way. Just had to really focus on my diet and recovery ( active and adequate sleep).
Yes, this is what I did two days ago. Yesterday I wasn't able to do anything or concentrate, felt depressed and not motivated.
I'm a new beginner and made the mistake of doing deadlift with 6kg kettle bell instead of 4kg.
Regret this big time.
Will do a light day today.
even worse w depression, too much inflammation
Well I should have saw this video in 1997 🤔
Damn this is very in-depth and informative. Thank you for the expert advice.
One if the best fitness channels on youtube. Feels like i have to pay for this amount of information
I was lost but now I finally found ... what I been looking for doo doo doo doo
Fantastic video! So much relevant, great info. Thanks so much!
alex can u please make a video about DUP? And can it be 2 rep ranges?
Yeah I occasionally skip deadlift or squat for a week or 2 and usually come back stronger. Deloads are great for keeping the CNS happy
Does it can cuase problems at talking?
Great vid, plus impressed you managed to keep a lid on the westside hate ;)
Good content as always ❤
Training in the same threshold every session isn’t a great idea no matter what threshold it is
😂😂😁😁shit the bed dead lift!!!
great info, Awesome video!! 👏👏