BaseStrengthAI is more reliable than a coach, cheaper than an Excel template!👇👇👇 www.BaseStrength.com/the-app Bromley Merch from Barbell Apparel only available HERE! 👇👇👇 barbellapparel.com/Bromley To get Bullmastiff for FREE 🔽🔽🔽 empire-barbell.com/full-libra... "BASE STRENGTH": 4.8 ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ from 170 Amazon Reviews!🔽🔽🔽 amzn.to/3d1pexd (also at www.empirebarbellstore.com) Have big training goals and don't know the next move? Reach out to me for a consultation! ✅ DM me on Insta: @Bromarama ✅ or email: bromley@empire-barbell.com ⭐Full Workouts Uploaded DAILY on Patreon⭐ www.patreon.com/alexanderbromley
Never commented on one of your videos after watching around 100 of them BUT I feel I should because the info you put out is just brilliant bud so much so I've lost 60lbs and almost fixed a long term shoulder injury which was holding me back for years.... and great videos and a pleasure to watch someone just do it with no fancy effects, in fact I think that's why Sam Sulik is so popular with his none flashy videos, we just want the info.
Jamie Lewis, a guy historically most interested in strength and maximal work, has changed his philosophy quite a bit and now also talk a lot about bodybuilding. My point, I think we all need to cultivate our inner bodybuilder or simply indulge him if he is already there. Does a body good!
I've been adding side raises as my first assistance movement. This is great as it gives my triceps a chance to rest a bit before being isolated and after working hard on the main movements. So side delts have become my go to focus when I need to rest other stuff within a workout.
You can do it! Try lots of volume, don't be afraid to drop the weight after your sets. Whatever you do for 5 take off 40 lbs or so and knock out a few sets of 10 after your working set(s). Works great. You can also try twice a week if your recovery allows it
@@Pastor_Sempa lmao you have literally no idea what his circumstances are. Stop talking like there's some absolute standard of strength for every person on earth. Gatekeeping is for the insecure.
What I found curious was that I was getting shoulder pain when using a seated o'head press machine. And then I switched to o'head barbell press and all was good. Perhaps I was starting too heavy on the machine vs starting fairly light for the bar. Anyway, for this newb, working the shoulders has been a revelation. Thanks again for the AB wisdom
Great advice! This is my approach and after 30 years of lifting shoulders are healthy and strong. I was able to set a state record bench in my 30s and approaching a world record of 520 raw at 198lbs in my 40s.
Wow, that’s damn impressive…and humbling. I just about broke my shoulder patting myself on the back for 315 OHP. Thanks for adjusting my goals! You rock.
Never prioritized the smaller muscles : shoulders, calves, bi/tris But I can tell it now hinges on my big 4 and my overall performances, keeping me from crushing some ceilings Been fixing the bi/tri for a few weeks and already feeling the differences, but man do I dislike training shoulders haha
Me neither, I just focus on big 4 like you. After my session I'm worn out and just want to go home, not stay longer to chase the pump in smaller muscles But my shoulders and calves are staying behind
It's often those muscles we hate training the most that need it the most. I know that has been true of my own training over the years, and I've most others I've known.
Hi, Bromley. Your content has been getting better and better. I find myself impatiently waiting for your next drop. Thanks for everything you do for us.
I like BOM's 'oonga boonga' perspective. Sometimes you just gotta go ham on something simple. Machines may be fairly mindless in this regard, I definitely like them for a hypertrophy focus.
Damn, this video is extremely helpful. I have been only doing strict OHP and I have not even thought about to switch it up to seated OHP. Also going to incorporate front raises. Will try this out for about a month, thank you
To conclude for the best shoulder strength and size what I do for my work out is mon is first seated dumbell shoulder press And bench press and Dumbell flys Wed is first assisted pull ups And struck over head press Cable rows and one hand lat pull down Fri is arms and legs
I had already included in my program, but didn't fully realized how much it was a good exercise. Very scientifical approach and very reasonable arguments, much thanks!
Thanks man, I'm definitely going to try some of these movements and incorporate them into my next training block. Excellent training advice from a pro! Please keep these videos up!!!
This is off topic, but "Superior Deadlift" was fantastic. I've recommend it to a few people who were looking at taking their deadlift training more seriously. Do you have any plans to write something similar for squats or OHP?
Amen to that. Got it with the 50% off bundle deal & I’m excited to hell to try the “reverse shrug” on deadlifts on my next workout. Been in the game a while now & I’ve never heard that cue until now!
@@Cwillz303 … Heard about that ‘reverse6 shrug’ or ‘anti-shrug’ a couple months ago while watching an EliteFTS video. Dave Tate Fixes 6 Deadlifts AT ONCE | Train Your Ass Off: ua-cam.com/video/EzJFKYn1Xf4/v-deo.html
Had I had your channel 25 years ago, I would have been so much better off than learning from the early internet and "bro science" in the gym -- learn it here, folks, instead of learning it from the school of hard knocks -- this is the stuff of the gods.
I've been pressing train wheels and I have seem lots of improvements to my shoulders. I know not everyone has access to train wheels but if you do they are great for growing delts.
You know, when you say do the side delt raises before pressing, and the fly's before benching I have to wonder if they are fatiguing enough to actually interfere with higher rep sets. I do rows before benching, and it absolutely does not interfere with my benching. I do leg curls before squats, and I think it actually helps. Sometimes I warm up stiff legged deadlifts in between sets of front squats, and that seems to add too, not take away. I would wonder if a model could be put together that could show to what extent (if any) interference is occuring. Because as I see it now if whatever you do before isn't as taxing as a regular warm up then it might as well be looked at as a warm up. Or if it is significantly disruptive maybe you can expect some post activation potentiation. It might even have to do with the degree of surplus you are in because if you are flooded with calories you might have the same energy available for your next exercise as you did for the first. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Lmao your name is hilarious. But my two cents... Just do whatever works for you. If you warm up with isolation, light rotation, pressure points (20 sec on pec minor f.e.) to relieve tightness or antagonistic muscle stimulation and you feel it's giving you good results keep on doing it. Priming a muscle for heavier work usually works great.
Your examples aren't good because pulling muscles aren't prime movers for bench press, or hamstrings for squats. But as others have said, just try stuff and see what happens.
@@gracefool right.... They are critically important stabilizers that are highly active in the bench. People think that means it will interfere. In maximal work it surely does, but at the lower thresholds it isn't.
I favor lots of bdywt pull-ups and chin-ups with a shoulder-width grip. Best exercises for rear-delts are high reps pull-ups/chin-ups. In my opinion rear delts help bench-pre$$e$. The rear delts take over bench when front delts tire out on flat bench.
Love overhead pressing.. My favourite lift but I absolutely suck at it 😂 Upto 87.5kg for a single... Chasing that 100kg ohp but the lift seems to build so slowly.. I'll try this workout and your tips.. Thanks
@@DOCFIT_09 my shoulders are definitely bigger , but the lift really doesn't want to go up..maybe if I actually trained that lift and specialized at it instead of trying to be that jack of all trades I could get it to where it goes faster... It's been 6 months now and I attempted a 90kg the other day and narrowly missed out on lockout...but after 6 months training to not land a PB was very demoralizing
@@dannyb9209 really man..i 100% agree that the lift is so so hard to progress but i think some minor progression of 5 pounds also makes a difference on your upper body on this lift!
I quit all over head press moves and do just bench and my front delts have grown more than ever. Were all different and for me this works and i can bench more frequently with well recovered shoulders now.
Listened to this like 3 times in a row. Was trying to bring up my bench, almost OHP as much as my bench. But I think I'm gonna focus on OHP over my bench number because I want those prime Dave Batista shoulders.
Bob and Brad may sell a good massage gun but a lot of their advice is terrible, especially for people who train strength. They're of the ass-covering physio school that believes in bad exercises rather than training to increase mobility and turn them into good exercises.
because I have no access to machines is why I like strict one arm dumbbell OH presses. For the first rep I focus on getting really tight and stable like if I were the machine itself so on all following up and down movements it feels like I just have to press in one direction. I get sore lower back, abdomen and legs after that though lol because they are supporting, bracing and stabilizing so damn much. With this technique I can do 50 kg for 15 reps per dumbbell instead of just 2-3 reps when I just casually press without the stated preperation. That's the thing about bent presses which takes this approach to the extreme. The whole body is acting as a stabilizatin FORTRESS, then we can press and stand up easily after that.
Crammed a stack of your videos of late. Good stuff.👍 I found the power versions of the oly lifts really hit my delts. I remember concentrating on power clean and push press. It added roundness to my delts and strict pressing strength went through the rough. Something I found helpful for shoulder pain when benching was rope FacePulls where I pumped the crap out of them with high reps. Also improved rear delt size increased noticeably.
I never did front raises because I always heard that the front felt already got enough stimulus from pressing bench/OHP Now my front delts are nonexistent, they're lagging a lot I'll do them too
@@victorgomez6330 same here. Always felt like my front delts lacked even with all the pressing. Maybe it comes down to your genetics? Idk. But yeah, I’ve started doing them
Watching the video, excited, it all makes sense...and then the first exercise the push press?! Why would you want to do push presses if you're trying to build your shoulders?! Very suboptimal way of overloading the delts. I would never do those (unless I'm strongman and I need to practice the movement).
That’s honestly why i dont have chest and shoulders the same day. I noticed that I prioritize my chest more since it goes first, then i half ass shoulders since its second. But now, i have them on separate days. I can always start fresh with my shoulders and can go all out without feeling the fatigue from doing chest. Im still not 100% sure if this is viable despite doing it for quite a bit now
I was wondering if you could clarify something. Around 8:00, you mentioned that we should start base phase workouts with lighter pump work and that starting with heavy lifts could in fact be detrimental. However, around 11:07, you appear to recommend the exact opposite. Can you help us understand the difference between these two recommendations?
Yeah, I can see how that seems contradictory. The first part is just a reminder to set aside 'performance' as the absolute priority which is really hard for strength athletes to do. Hypertrophy focused workouts require a ton of reps and a ton of fatigue and that might entail restructuring exercises to optimize fatigue over load and it might entail dropping the weight to unimpressive levels in order to thoroughly exhaust yourself. The second part still stands as a very broad structure for whatever muscle takes priority that day, but it isn't set in stone. Example: I'm doing triceps 2x per week because they are a weak point for me, one day they are done before pecs, the other day they are done before delts. So I'm benching and overhead pressing after some 12-15 sets of tricep work, which is humbling since my working weight is below 50% on most sets. Pressing the most weight is not my priority; bringing up my weak points is. Now, with my tricep work I'm still starting out with a heavier variation like JM Presses or Dips; I'm opting to take most of my sets very close to failure and torching my triceps on a finesse movement would limit the load I could handle on the big movements. I feel like this is making the best use of each type of movement. Now, would it make a really big difference if I swapped the order? If I'm working hard and progressing workout to workout.... probably not. I wasn't really clear, but when I recommend 'pre-fatigue' with compound movements, like doing flys before benching, I'm not talking about 4-5 sets to failure. More of a warmup that drives blood into the joints, sneaks in some productive volume and won't impact performance too much after you've given some time to acclimate to it.
ok, so to see if i understand correctly. you can do front raises/side raises/upright rows/btn presses as a sort of warm up before you go into your heavy ohp work?
Simply dial the volume back until ur work capacity improves, at which point u can introduce +1 sets on some or all of the lifts and then reassess from there
people wondering why their delts stay small, well at some point OHP wont cut it. train your side delts and rear delts. your physique and bench press will thank u later.
I've always done my big lifts first, then my accessory work after so I would have more energy, but I will say this here lately I found it is best to do a little accessory work first... not all of it.. but I have really found it seems to grease everything, I just do better and most of all it is way easier for me to lock my back and keep good form on deadlifts or squat
I've tried to be stubborn and do the Rippetoe thing with overhead press, and I plateaued after four weight jumps. Couldn't add 2.5kg for very long, and that's the smallest weight jump I can do at my gym, sadly. Switched to dumbbells and 10+ reps, and shoulders exploded. Checked my OHP again, and although my core balance is absolute crap and nearly gets me killed, the sets of 5 starts to move up again. My shoulders definitely prefer the bodybuilding style, even if that high rep burn is utterly disgusting.
Hey Alex, I’ve never been able to do front raises because of anterior left shoulder pain , close to the ac joint but not actually the ac it’s deeper than that, it also stops me from benching too, so you think getting stronger at front raises could help this issue?
Try external and internal rotation excersises for shoulder with cables or bands. You should hold the handle at 90 degrees, upper arm to your side. use very lightweight. youll have to look it up for proper form
at the end of the video where you're talking about triceps training you mention that you do 3-4 exercises per session, and then you added that you do a "minimum of five sets". Is that total set number for triceps that day, across all triceps exercises, or is it 5 sets per exercise (so 15-20 sets total)?
Hey Bromley what do you think about Matt wenning saying not to do military presses? Specifically not to do em that much but to mostly use iso movements for the delts…thanks
@@patrickjulius7352But there's also a vast difference in their goals and competitions. Wenning is a powerlifter, so only using overhead work as an occasional accessory makes sense. Bromley is a competitive strongman, meaning without overhead work he stops being able to compete entirely. Or even call himself a strongman, in certain circles. People need to remember where the context of the advice they get comes from. They could both be correct, even if they give with wildly different answers to the same question.
@@RevShifty Wenning trains competitive strongmen, one of whom won his division and broke a record in the leg press despite not regularly training military press week to week. says training it often is damaging and he can get him competitive without wearing out the joints.
Hi Bromley, just wondered your thoughts on calisthetics for helping to build the shoulders? Primarily things like the elevated pike press up or the wall supported handstand press up used after a main barbell movement.
Problem with calisthenics is that they require a minimum amount of strength before you can use them effectively, and shoulder variations require a lot of strength. I don't have any reason to believe that calisthenic variations work better than standard gym equipment, and the gym equipment can be scaled and progressed much, much more easily. If you like doing calisthenics, great; any form of resistance training will grow muscle and strength. But they don't have any special feature that will favor growth beyond any other exercise you might do.
@@AlexanderBromley hi bormly for your advice my shoulders hurt alots front delts ,what can I do for.this How can I build some with weighted bodyweight excrises and how to get big for long limb lifters
High reps for delts is where its at period. I am a Bodybuilder and train them once a week but intens. My delts are truly huge. I do alternate to lower reps , heavier weight when i feel its time. But my base is 20 ,25,even 30 reps. Fast twitch fibers. I always start with rear delts. TUT
Started doing ohp just recently. Relative to my other feats the ohp is quite pathetic. It turns out that heavy weighted tips on rings and ohp in same workout lead to overuse markers in my shoulder.
I have no idea how it happened but I can bench 80kg for 1 and military press 75 for 5. I always do bench press first (PPL twice a week). I also do chest flyes and lateral raises after those movements.
I notice your range of motion on all exercises shown is quite shallow and limited. Just wondering if there's a reason for this? Are you going to full contraction of the intended muscle- that's the goal is it not? I've been training consistently for almost 45 years. I love your information and experienced tutoring. Compared to all others who give advice here on YT yours are the most serious and practical. Thanks.
I am considering doing bench just once a week, no accessories and focusing on OHP for 3 months and seeing how big my OHP goes and how much my bench suffers, if at all.
@@DOCFIT_09 I did 2 months of it. In kilos - my OHP went from 85 to 95kg. My bench stayed at 120 but my shoulders recovered better doing OHP than bench.
@@jfried6754 10 kg increase in ohp in 2 months is crazy....did you notice any shoulder gains with it? And what about the calories during this time? Bulking or just maintaining?
@@DOCFIT_09 sorry I am really bad at counting calories. I track protein and kind of carbs but have only a rough idea of my calorie intake. I was targeting 3200 calories throughout which is about maintenance but as I put 1kg on over the time I would have been a slight surplus. My shoulders definitely were bigger and more 'capped' looking. I did behind the neck work two days a week during this time period and I think that was the secret - the BTN work helped me get very balanced shoulders.
Compare your strict press to your bench. If you can strict press 75% of your bench, your ohp is damn strong relative to your bench (I stay around 70%) while 60% and under means they should be prioritized.
lol, I've also never finished worse than 3rd at any national events (never competed, but I'm not wrong). All jokes aside, I get what is meant by saying that and appreciate the credibility and wisdom.
Aren’t biceps being worked with upright rows? If back and biceps day is right after chest, shoulders, and triceps day, won’t the back and biceps suffer from the biceps being fatigued the day before?
Right now, I have a separate back day scheduled. I'm doing Push - Legs - Pull (rowing) 2x per week for a 6-ish day split (I'll take rest days as needed so it doesn't fall cleanly in a week). I alternate OH and Bench along with Squat and Deadlift, so each main lift gets hit once every 7-9 days while isolation movements for arms/legs/back get hit twice in that time. I change my splits quite a bit, depending on what I think is a priority. The only real value in any one particular split is how it allows you to focus on your biggest priorities; aside from that, they all work well.
your entire workout seemed prejudiced to the front delts. Makes sense from a pressing standpoint but you made it sound like you want to grow the whole delta so where were lateral raises in it?
Starting heavy with compound movements and moving to higher rep isolation work after is the best advice too. Ive seen too many people do tricep extensions and shoulders before benchpress it makes no sense but a lot of people don’t understand
I would have generally agreed with you a while ago as a gradual pyramid down in intensity through the session makes the most sense. In terms of bodybuilding I know that Mike Isratel and a few natty guys like GVS and basement bodybuilding recommend prioritising lacking body parts at the start of a session which does make sense to me. If I need my arms to grow I don't want to be gassed after a session of compounds and not have full energy to push what needs the most work. So for example I started out on a minimalist routine years ago and generally grew alot on my torso but my arms were heavily lacking. Recently I've run a upper lower split with a chest and back primary focus to start on upper1 and arm/shoulder isolation to finish. Then on upper 2 I Will start the session with a 5-10 rep range barbell curl/5-10 range tricep pushdown superset, then move onto the compounds and again finish off with some more high rep isolation for arms but with different variations. I've made huge strength and size gains since changing it up to this as I never realised how far back my arms were keeping me from progressing some lifts. I think If you are going to use an isolation to start it is better to use a variation you can push for a higher weight with a low to moderate rep range. This is to ensure you can get a decent mix of all rep ranges for the best growth possible. What I agree wouldn't make sense from my experience is starting a session with some high rep "pump" isolation. I still belive that is best left after the higher weight/lower rep work is out the way. If you ARE going to add an isolation to the start of a session it may aswel be in an intensity/rep range you wouldn't otherwise be able to do as effectively post compounds.
I figured out years ago that the bigger my shoulders and the wider my back, and the bigger my legs, the smaller my gut looked. I learned that and have enjoyed being a fattie ever since. 🤣
@@AlexanderBromley I only meant the front side of the shoulder, I'm no expert that's why i'm asking you if too much front delt work will impact negatively my shoulder health and my bench recovery
damn bro(mley)… your bragging is almost on par with wenning and him constantly reminding people about his 1197.6 lbs equipped and 865 lbs raw squat world records 😂
Lol trust me, I hear it. Talking about your own numbers is cringey but a certain amount of self promotion is necessary. I'm still working on finding the right intersection of humility and self-fellating. I've set a timer; you won't hear about my lifts again for another 9 videos.
Why doing so much exercise and volume? Isn't it causes you too much damage and raising cortisol very high and thus hurts recovery, getting stronger and bigger effectively?
BaseStrengthAI is more reliable than a coach, cheaper than an Excel template!👇👇👇
www.BaseStrength.com/the-app
Bromley Merch from Barbell Apparel only available HERE! 👇👇👇
barbellapparel.com/Bromley
To get Bullmastiff for FREE 🔽🔽🔽
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"BASE STRENGTH": 4.8 ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ from 170 Amazon Reviews!🔽🔽🔽
amzn.to/3d1pexd (also at www.empirebarbellstore.com)
Have big training goals and don't know the next move? Reach out to me for a consultation!
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Never commented on one of your videos after watching around 100 of them BUT I feel I should because the info you put out is just brilliant bud so much so I've lost 60lbs and almost fixed a long term shoulder injury which was holding me back for years.... and great videos and a pleasure to watch someone just do it with no fancy effects, in fact I think that's why Sam Sulik is so popular with his none flashy videos, we just want the info.
thank you for justifying my inner bodybuilder
Johnny bodybuilder
You don’t need justification. Just be a bodybuilder proudly and get big lifts
Jamie Lewis, a guy historically most interested in strength and maximal work, has changed his philosophy quite a bit and now also talk a lot about bodybuilding.
My point, I think we all need to cultivate our inner bodybuilder or simply indulge him if he is already there. Does a body good!
It's called enabling.
I think bodybuilders and strength guys can both learn a lot from each other
Great advice. My "strength training" playlist is quickly becoming just the collected works of Alexander Bromley.
Same here lol
I've been adding side raises as my first assistance movement. This is great as it gives my triceps a chance to rest a bit before being isolated and after working hard on the main movements. So side delts have become my go to focus when I need to rest other stuff within a workout.
Really wanna get a 60kg strict press for reps before the end of the year. Cheers Bromley. Definitely implementing these tips 💪
You can do it! Try lots of volume, don't be afraid to drop the weight after your sets. Whatever you do for 5 take off 40 lbs or so and knock out a few sets of 10 after your working set(s). Works great. You can also try twice a week if your recovery allows it
that should be your warm up weight after 5 years of weight training
@@Pastor_Sempa lmao you have literally no idea what his circumstances are. Stop talking like there's some absolute standard of strength for every person on earth. Gatekeeping is for the insecure.
@@Pastor_Sempa shut up
Yeah buddy, lets goo 🙂same objective but in the incline (and I got it)
What I found curious was that I was getting shoulder pain when using a seated o'head press machine. And then I switched to o'head barbell press and all was good. Perhaps I was starting too heavy on the machine vs starting fairly light for the bar. Anyway, for this newb, working the shoulders has been a revelation.
Thanks again for the AB wisdom
Great advice! This is my approach and after 30 years of lifting shoulders are healthy and strong. I was able to set a state record bench in my 30s and approaching a world record of 520 raw at 198lbs in my 40s.
Wow, that’s damn impressive…and humbling. I just about broke my shoulder patting myself on the back for 315 OHP. Thanks for adjusting my goals! You rock.
Oops, misread…or just assumed you were talking OHP. Still, that’s a kicking bench.
Never prioritized the smaller muscles : shoulders, calves, bi/tris
But I can tell it now hinges on my big 4 and my overall performances, keeping me from crushing some ceilings
Been fixing the bi/tri for a few weeks and already feeling the differences, but man do I dislike training shoulders haha
And funny enough shoulders and triceps are one of the biggest muscles in the upper body
@@NunoAlexandreMB ^
Me neither, I just focus on big 4 like you. After my session I'm worn out and just want to go home, not stay longer to chase the pump in smaller muscles
But my shoulders and calves are staying behind
It's often those muscles we hate training the most that need it the most. I know that has been true of my own training over the years, and I've most others I've known.
bro shoulders ar big muscles, theyre not small
Started doing seated pin ohp, str8 up felt the gains the next week when doing incline press. 3rd week in and went from 95x12 to 100x14
Hi, Bromley. Your content has been getting better and better. I find myself impatiently waiting for your next drop. Thanks for everything you do for us.
I like BOM's 'oonga boonga' perspective. Sometimes you just gotta go ham on something simple. Machines may be fairly mindless in this regard, I definitely like them for a hypertrophy focus.
dude i love that you shared the whole lift with us and got footage, awesome content man pls make more
Damn, this video is extremely helpful. I have been only doing strict OHP and I have not even thought about to switch it up to seated OHP. Also going to incorporate front raises. Will try this out for about a month, thank you
Facts. I need to start this as well.
To conclude for the best shoulder strength and size what I do for my work out is mon is first seated dumbell shoulder press
And bench press and
Dumbell flys
Wed is first assisted pull ups
And struck over head press
Cable rows and one hand lat pull down
Fri is arms and legs
Is it correct amount of shoulder work ? Any suggestions helps big fan of your Chanel
Currently hit a ceiling with strict OHPs and damn this video truly opened my eyes on what I miss out on in terms of delt work :,D
I had already included in my program, but didn't fully realized how much it was a good exercise. Very scientifical approach and very reasonable arguments, much thanks!
Thanks man, I'm definitely going to try some of these movements and incorporate them into my next training block. Excellent training advice from a pro! Please keep these videos up!!!
Front raising 135 like it's nothing 😅 strong dude right there!
This is off topic, but "Superior Deadlift" was fantastic. I've recommend it to a few people who were looking at taking their deadlift training more seriously. Do you have any plans to write something similar for squats or OHP?
Amen to that. Got it with the 50% off bundle deal & I’m excited to hell to try the “reverse shrug” on deadlifts on my next workout. Been in the game a while now & I’ve never heard that cue until now!
@@Cwillz303 … Heard about that ‘reverse6 shrug’ or ‘anti-shrug’ a couple months ago while watching an EliteFTS video.
Dave Tate Fixes 6 Deadlifts AT ONCE | Train Your Ass Off: ua-cam.com/video/EzJFKYn1Xf4/v-deo.html
@@Cwillz303 … forgot time stamp: 4:30 to 5:10 mark in the EliteFTS video.
Had I had your channel 25 years ago, I would have been so much better off than learning from the early internet and "bro science" in the gym -- learn it here, folks, instead of learning it from the school of hard knocks -- this is the stuff of the gods.
I've been pressing train wheels and I have seem lots of improvements to my shoulders. I know not everyone has access to train wheels but if you do they are great for growing delts.
You know, when you say do the side delt raises before pressing, and the fly's before benching I have to wonder if they are fatiguing enough to actually interfere with higher rep sets.
I do rows before benching, and it absolutely does not interfere with my benching. I do leg curls before squats, and I think it actually helps. Sometimes I warm up stiff legged deadlifts in between sets of front squats, and that seems to add too, not take away.
I would wonder if a model could be put together that could show to what extent (if any) interference is occuring.
Because as I see it now if whatever you do before isn't as taxing as a regular warm up then it might as well be looked at as a warm up. Or if it is significantly disruptive maybe you can expect some post activation potentiation.
It might even have to do with the degree of surplus you are in because if you are flooded with calories you might have the same energy available for your next exercise as you did for the first.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
the flys before bench thing always confuses me as well. might try it out though. but your lateral delts recover pretty easily. shouldnt be an issue
@@mariushager9983 especially during a front delt dominant exercise.
Lmao your name is hilarious.
But my two cents...
Just do whatever works for you. If you warm up with isolation, light rotation, pressure points (20 sec on pec minor f.e.) to relieve tightness or antagonistic muscle stimulation and you feel it's giving you good results keep on doing it. Priming a muscle for heavier work usually works great.
Your examples aren't good because pulling muscles aren't prime movers for bench press, or hamstrings for squats. But as others have said, just try stuff and see what happens.
@@gracefool right.... They are critically important stabilizers that are highly active in the bench. People think that means it will interfere. In maximal work it surely does, but at the lower thresholds it isn't.
Been training for about two years now, seated dumbell OHP have become my favorite exercise by far for shoulders
I favor lots of bdywt pull-ups and chin-ups with a shoulder-width grip. Best exercises for rear-delts are high reps pull-ups/chin-ups. In my opinion rear delts help bench-pre$$e$. The rear delts take over bench when front delts tire out on flat bench.
Love overhead pressing.. My favourite lift but I absolutely suck at it 😂
Upto 87.5kg for a single... Chasing that 100kg ohp but the lift seems to build so slowly.. I'll try this workout and your tips.. Thanks
The incline may be a good solution, with a variety of accessories as Alex said
Did you notice any relative size gain to your shoulders while increasing the strict ohp
@@DOCFIT_09 my shoulders are definitely bigger , but the lift really doesn't want to go up..maybe if I actually trained that lift and specialized at it instead of trying to be that jack of all trades I could get it to where it goes faster... It's been 6 months now and I attempted a 90kg the other day and narrowly missed out on lockout...but after 6 months training to not land a PB was very demoralizing
@@dannyb9209 really man..i 100% agree that the lift is so so hard to progress but i think some minor progression of 5 pounds also makes a difference on your upper body on this lift!
dude u acting like 87.5 strick press is average or something
For T bar rows...you can use an EZ bar compensate for the mobility thing (wrist).
I quit all over head press moves and do just bench and my front delts have grown more than ever. Were all different and for me this works and i can bench more frequently with well recovered shoulders now.
Similar to myself except 25% dumbbell incline instead of flat bench
Smith machine presses have helped me a lot also…great content !
-Strict Barbell OHP 4x5 (90% max 2 reps top set)
-seated DB OHP 8x3
-dip 10x3
-single arm cable lateral raise 12x3
-face pull 10x3
What do you think?
Listened to this like 3 times in a row. Was trying to bring up my bench, almost OHP as much as my bench. But I think I'm gonna focus on OHP over my bench number because I want those prime Dave Batista shoulders.
Bob and Brad...the two most famous....physical therapist...on the Internet. That intro is gold son! Been watching them for awhile now!
Bob and Brad may sell a good massage gun but a lot of their advice is terrible, especially for people who train strength. They're of the ass-covering physio school that believes in bad exercises rather than training to increase mobility and turn them into good exercises.
because I have no access to machines is why I like strict one arm dumbbell OH presses. For the first rep I focus on getting really tight and stable like if I were the machine itself so on all following up and down movements it feels like I just have to press in one direction. I get sore lower back, abdomen and legs after that though lol because they are supporting, bracing and stabilizing so damn much. With this technique I can do 50 kg for 15 reps per dumbbell instead of just 2-3 reps when I just casually press without the stated preperation. That's the thing about bent presses which takes this approach to the extreme. The whole body is acting as a stabilizatin FORTRESS, then we can press and stand up easily after that.
Thoughts about hang cleans instead of upright rows? I feel nice uperback, traps and forarms..
Crammed a stack of your videos of late. Good stuff.👍
I found the power versions of the oly lifts really hit my delts. I remember concentrating on power clean and push press. It added roundness to my delts and strict pressing strength went through the rough.
Something I found helpful for shoulder pain when benching was rope FacePulls where I pumped the crap out of them with high reps. Also improved rear delt size increased noticeably.
Guess I’ll be implementing front raises now!
I never did front raises because I always heard that the front felt already got enough stimulus from pressing bench/OHP
Now my front delts are nonexistent, they're lagging a lot
I'll do them too
@@victorgomez6330 same here. Always felt like my front delts lacked even with all the pressing. Maybe it comes down to your genetics? Idk. But yeah, I’ve started doing them
almost 3 years into training and i still cant ohp my own bodyweight, i need this video lmao
Watching the video, excited, it all makes sense...and then the first exercise the push press?! Why would you want to do push presses if you're trying to build your shoulders?! Very suboptimal way of overloading the delts. I would never do those (unless I'm strongman and I need to practice the movement).
Keep pushing 🙏🏾
Great info here. Excellent content as usual💯💪🏽
Ooh; pushing, punching, and throwing! Go, delts!
Johnny Bookworm getting called out. 💪
Lol random collab with bob and brad but their channels actually pretty good, been watching them for a while
Thank god for you making excellent content.
Thanks! I feel like I need to boost my delts, too
That’s honestly why i dont have chest and shoulders the same day. I noticed that I prioritize my chest more since it goes first, then i half ass shoulders since its second. But now, i have them on separate days. I can always start fresh with my shoulders and can go all out without feeling the fatigue from doing chest. Im still not 100% sure if this is viable despite doing it for quite a bit now
I called it, seated shoulder presses is the best shoulder builder that has direct carry over to OHP
"strength athlete" I like that !
I was wondering if you could clarify something. Around 8:00, you mentioned that we should start base phase workouts with lighter pump work and that starting with heavy lifts could in fact be detrimental. However, around 11:07, you appear to recommend the exact opposite. Can you help us understand the difference between these two recommendations?
Yeah, I can see how that seems contradictory. The first part is just a reminder to set aside 'performance' as the absolute priority which is really hard for strength athletes to do. Hypertrophy focused workouts require a ton of reps and a ton of fatigue and that might entail restructuring exercises to optimize fatigue over load and it might entail dropping the weight to unimpressive levels in order to thoroughly exhaust yourself.
The second part still stands as a very broad structure for whatever muscle takes priority that day, but it isn't set in stone.
Example:
I'm doing triceps 2x per week because they are a weak point for me, one day they are done before pecs, the other day they are done before delts. So I'm benching and overhead pressing after some 12-15 sets of tricep work, which is humbling since my working weight is below 50% on most sets. Pressing the most weight is not my priority; bringing up my weak points is.
Now, with my tricep work I'm still starting out with a heavier variation like JM Presses or Dips; I'm opting to take most of my sets very close to failure and torching my triceps on a finesse movement would limit the load I could handle on the big movements. I feel like this is making the best use of each type of movement. Now, would it make a really big difference if I swapped the order? If I'm working hard and progressing workout to workout.... probably not.
I wasn't really clear, but when I recommend 'pre-fatigue' with compound movements, like doing flys before benching, I'm not talking about 4-5 sets to failure. More of a warmup that drives blood into the joints, sneaks in some productive volume and won't impact performance too much after you've given some time to acclimate to it.
Great video. Very informative.
ok, so to see if i understand correctly. you can do front raises/side raises/upright rows/btn presses as a sort of warm up before you go into your heavy ohp work?
I’m 62 and just can’t seem to handle the volumes that you have here. What would you recommend for the older lifter here?
Simply dial the volume back until ur work capacity improves, at which point u can introduce +1 sets on some or all of the lifts and then reassess from there
Creatine. It'll double your workload and it's healthy.
Seated v-bar row work rear delts intensely too.
people wondering why their delts stay small, well at some point OHP wont cut it. train your side delts and rear delts. your physique and bench press will thank u later.
Indeed …👍🏻🙌
yep, literally no reason a lifter can’t do a few sets of lateral raises 2x/week
fantastic video
I've always done my big lifts first, then my accessory work after so I would have more energy, but I will say this here lately I found it is best to do a little accessory work first... not all of it.. but I have really found it seems to grease everything, I just do better and most of all it is way easier for me to lock my back and keep good form on deadlifts or squat
Tldr, a lot of pressing, seated, machine, front raises
I've tried to be stubborn and do the Rippetoe thing with overhead press, and I plateaued after four weight jumps. Couldn't add 2.5kg for very long, and that's the smallest weight jump I can do at my gym, sadly. Switched to dumbbells and 10+ reps, and shoulders exploded. Checked my OHP again, and although my core balance is absolute crap and nearly gets me killed, the sets of 5 starts to move up again. My shoulders definitely prefer the bodybuilding style, even if that high rep burn is utterly disgusting.
My arnold press is going up but not my Ohp
Hey Alex, I’ve never been able to do front raises because of anterior left shoulder pain , close to the ac joint but not actually the ac it’s deeper than that, it also stops me from benching too, so you think getting stronger at front raises could help this issue?
Try external and internal rotation excersises for shoulder with cables or bands. You should hold the handle at 90 degrees, upper arm to your side. use very lightweight. youll have to look it up for proper form
at the end of the video where you're talking about triceps training you mention that you do 3-4 exercises per session, and then you added that you do a "minimum of five sets". Is that total set number for triceps that day, across all triceps exercises, or is it 5 sets per exercise (so 15-20 sets total)?
5 per exercise. That's because arms are a weak point for me and most of my sets are shy of failure.
@@AlexanderBromley thank you!
Hey Bromley what do you think about Matt wenning saying not to do military presses? Specifically not to do em that much but to mostly use iso movements for the delts…thanks
there's a reason bromley regularly deals with shoulder pain and wenning never does.
@@patrickjulius7352But there's also a vast difference in their goals and competitions. Wenning is a powerlifter, so only using overhead work as an occasional accessory makes sense.
Bromley is a competitive strongman, meaning without overhead work he stops being able to compete entirely. Or even call himself a strongman, in certain circles.
People need to remember where the context of the advice they get comes from. They could both be correct, even if they give with wildly different answers to the same question.
@@RevShifty Wenning trains competitive strongmen, one of whom won his division and broke a record in the leg press despite not regularly training military press week to week. says training it often is damaging and he can get him competitive without wearing out the joints.
Shots fired on Jay Vincent! 😂
What Helped my calves to grow was beeing excaptionaly fat 145 kg at 178 cm and Walking between 20 and 30 Kilometer a day. (Work related)
Hi Bromley, just wondered your thoughts on calisthetics for helping to build the shoulders? Primarily things like the elevated pike press up or the wall supported handstand press up used after a main barbell movement.
Problem with calisthenics is that they require a minimum amount of strength before you can use them effectively, and shoulder variations require a lot of strength. I don't have any reason to believe that calisthenic variations work better than standard gym equipment, and the gym equipment can be scaled and progressed much, much more easily. If you like doing calisthenics, great; any form of resistance training will grow muscle and strength. But they don't have any special feature that will favor growth beyond any other exercise you might do.
@@AlexanderBromley thanks appericate the reply :)
@@AlexanderBromley hi bormly for your advice my shoulders hurt alots front delts ,what can I do for.this
How can I build some with weighted bodyweight excrises and how to get big for long limb lifters
High reps for delts is where its at period. I am a Bodybuilder and train them once a week but intens. My delts are truly huge. I do alternate to lower reps , heavier weight when i feel its time. But my base is 20 ,25,even 30 reps. Fast twitch fibers. I always start with rear delts. TUT
3 minutes each, light weight enough that you may need a paid halfway through, all four shoulder angles, steady but quick pace.
Kickass video!!
Great video, thanks
When he said my best lifts include... I knew I was boutta get mogged
If you could only add in one movement to really push yourself with on shoulders / overhead strength, what would it be?
Pin presses (regarding the strict press). If you wanna train your push presses, thrusters are a great awareness builder
saw seated shoulder presses on a video of alphadestiny. started doing them and absolutely love them
Good video as usual
Started doing ohp just recently. Relative to my other feats the ohp is quite pathetic.
It turns out that heavy weighted tips on rings and ohp in same workout lead to overuse markers in my shoulder.
I have no idea how it happened but I can bench 80kg for 1 and military press 75 for 5. I always do bench press first (PPL twice a week). I also do chest flyes and lateral raises after those movements.
can you tell me what your numbers are now? those numbers seem crazy
@@jeremyc1034 Bench 100kgx3 last time I tried. Haven't done overhead pressing for a long time. It has been a learning experience.
I notice your range of motion on all exercises shown is quite shallow and limited. Just wondering if there's a reason for this? Are you going to full contraction of the intended muscle- that's the goal is it not? I've been training consistently for almost 45 years. I love your information and experienced tutoring. Compared to all others who give advice here on YT yours are the most serious and practical. Thanks.
Yeah his dip form is atrocious
Anyone els watching this after shoulder day??
I am considering doing bench just once a week, no accessories and focusing on OHP for 3 months and seeing how big my OHP goes and how much my bench suffers, if at all.
Hey how is it going
@@DOCFIT_09 I did 2 months of it. In kilos - my OHP went from 85 to 95kg. My bench stayed at 120 but my shoulders recovered better doing OHP than bench.
@@jfried6754 10 kg increase in ohp in 2 months is crazy....did you notice any shoulder gains with it? And what about the calories during this time? Bulking or just maintaining?
@@DOCFIT_09 sorry I am really bad at counting calories. I track protein and kind of carbs but have only a rough idea of my calorie intake. I was targeting 3200 calories throughout which is about maintenance but as I put 1kg on over the time I would have been a slight surplus. My shoulders definitely were bigger and more 'capped' looking. I did behind the neck work two days a week during this time period and I think that was the secret - the BTN work helped me get very balanced shoulders.
what about upright rows with dumbells?
410 pound log press. That’s on par with top tier strongmen. 😮
How can you tell if shoulders are the weak link in your bench?
Compare your strict press to your bench. If you can strict press 75% of your bench, your ohp is damn strong relative to your bench (I stay around 70%) while 60% and under means they should be prioritized.
12:08 This. Love you Brom *laughs*
lol, I've also never finished worse than 3rd at any national events (never competed, but I'm not wrong). All jokes aside, I get what is meant by saying that and appreciate the credibility and wisdom.
how long did it take you to two plates?
Aren’t biceps being worked with upright rows? If back and biceps day is right after chest, shoulders, and triceps day, won’t the back and biceps suffer from the biceps being fatigued the day before?
I just hit a 315 seated overhead barbell press. 365 coming soon
Yeah I dig seated shoulder presses too! One of my favorite movements. Great video!!
Thanks!
Is there a good shoulder program that you recommend?
The video is showing you lol
@@austindeshazo1428 yeah I commented before I finished the video lol
@@therazorscooterkings lololololol
awesome video 🔥 I've been seeing content from Ben Yanes all over Instagram lol
So your pulling work happens on leg day? Or do you train push pull legs?
Curious about this too
Right now, I have a separate back day scheduled. I'm doing Push - Legs - Pull (rowing) 2x per week for a 6-ish day split (I'll take rest days as needed so it doesn't fall cleanly in a week).
I alternate OH and Bench along with Squat and Deadlift, so each main lift gets hit once every 7-9 days while isolation movements for arms/legs/back get hit twice in that time.
I change my splits quite a bit, depending on what I think is a priority. The only real value in any one particular split is how it allows you to focus on your biggest priorities; aside from that, they all work well.
Only Neen lifting again for 8 weeks but already kinda stuck at a whopping 37.5kg for 8reps. Hopefully I can work past it 🤣
Good info since a lot of overhead events are my worst ones lol
your entire workout seemed prejudiced to the front delts. Makes sense from a pressing standpoint but you made it sound like you want to grow the whole delta so where were lateral raises in it?
Starting heavy with compound movements and moving to higher rep isolation work after is the best advice too. Ive seen too many people do tricep extensions and shoulders before benchpress it makes no sense but a lot of people don’t understand
I would have generally agreed with you a while ago as a gradual pyramid down in intensity through the session makes the most sense. In terms of bodybuilding I know that Mike Isratel and a few natty guys like GVS and basement bodybuilding recommend prioritising lacking body parts at the start of a session which does make sense to me. If I need my arms to grow I don't want to be gassed after a session of compounds and not have full energy to push what needs the most work. So for example I started out on a minimalist routine years ago and generally grew alot on my torso but my arms were heavily lacking. Recently I've run a upper lower split with a chest and back primary focus to start on upper1 and arm/shoulder isolation to finish. Then on upper 2 I Will start the session with a 5-10 rep range barbell curl/5-10 range tricep pushdown superset, then move onto the compounds and again finish off with some more high rep isolation for arms but with different variations. I've made huge strength and size gains since changing it up to this as I never realised how far back my arms were keeping me from progressing some lifts. I think If you are going to use an isolation to start it is better to use a variation you can push for a higher weight with a low to moderate rep range. This is to ensure you can get a decent mix of all rep ranges for the best growth possible. What I agree wouldn't make sense from my experience is starting a session with some high rep "pump" isolation. I still belive that is best left after the higher weight/lower rep work is out the way. If you ARE going to add an isolation to the start of a session it may aswel be in an intensity/rep range you wouldn't otherwise be able to do as effectively post compounds.
They won't grow because aren't doing high tension exercises with a lot of stability. I have a plethora of lifts I do that give capped delts.
12:00 is for you PF
@@CeroAshura thanks lol
I figured out years ago that the bigger my shoulders and the wider my back, and the bigger my legs, the smaller my gut looked. I learned that and have enjoyed being a fattie ever since. 🤣
To grow my delts i have to use a massage gun, got it
isn't it too much front delt work , whether you consider aesthetic or shoulder health, or even bench recovery ?
What leads you to that conclusion? Have you met guys with big shoulders who recommend only training them a little? Natties need more work, not less.
@@AlexanderBromley I only meant the front side of the shoulder, I'm no expert that's why i'm asking you if too much front delt work will impact negatively my shoulder health and my bench recovery
@@xarmy12 train rear delts more as well, problem solved.
Subbed! Video idea: How to periodize a year’s training for non-pros who seek advanced strength, conditioning and GPP.
damn bro(mley)… your bragging is almost on par with wenning and him constantly reminding people about his 1197.6 lbs equipped and 865 lbs raw squat world records 😂
Lol trust me, I hear it. Talking about your own numbers is cringey but a certain amount of self promotion is necessary. I'm still working on finding the right intersection of humility and self-fellating.
I've set a timer; you won't hear about my lifts again for another 9 videos.
Take a shot every time Matt mentions he has a masters degree and you won't survive the video.
Why doing so much exercise and volume? Isn't it causes you too much damage and raising cortisol very high and thus hurts recovery, getting stronger and bigger effectively?
205 for 12 isnt nothing to sneeze at..ur lifting a human over ur head 12x