THANK YOU TORI! I for one like hearing responses to these books that don't fall into the gush category, and for pretty much the reasons you just made. I WANT to think about the elements in them that will impact people differently, how else would I know when an aspect I don't notice, or aren't bothered by, is one that could spoil someone else's enjoyment? I am SUPER looking forward to talking to you about Ship of Magic, and DON'T WORRY EVERYONE, my goal isn't as simple as convincing Tori to continue. My ❤Hobb ❤ goal is *always* for readers to enjoy what they're reading. If after a discussion I don't think Tori would benefit from the rest of the story - I WILL TOTALLY 'CLIFF NOTES' THEM FOR HER, and instead suggest moving on to Tawny Man. Kudos Tori, that took guts.
I’m not the only one!?!?!? Bless you for posting this review, now I don’t feel so alone. I finished the trilogy earlier this year and disliked each book more than the last. I wish I had quit with book one, but because I told myself it was an “objectively good” book and I should see how things come together before judging, I stuck through to see the payoff at the end. And was deeply disappointed. I don’t even think it’s an “objectively good” series anymore, there are storytelling choices that are very poor later in the story. If you felt like this about book one, I don’t know if I would recommend continuing. If I could talk to past me, I would certainly suggest not to. Thanks again for the honest review!! Hope your next read is better.
That was one of the reasons I posted it, because I knew I couldn't have been the only one on the struggle bus! I'm glad that you found something that resonated with you in my review, and I'm definitely hesitant to continue the series at this point based on what everyone has suggested and shared.
I enjoyed book one and two well enough because I thought Hobb knew what she was building and where it was going…and then Ship of Destiny happened. Absolutely soured my whole experience. It’s so frustrating. Horrendously unsatisfying.
Thank you for making this video! I experience this a lot, with an even lower threshold than you I think. Sometimes I feel bad because there are so many books the community loves that I just can’t bring myself to read. I can handle some bad things happening, but I need a feeling of hope for the future. Pervasive hopelessness or grimness stresses me out while I read.
I'm glad that my review was helpful for you! And I totally understand the struggle, hopelessness as an overall theme in a story is hard for me to get behind too.
You said it perfectly when you said "everyone who reads a book is going to have a different experience." Art is subjective, so even great works of art will not work for everyone. I think you made your points very clearly and objectively, and suspect even Hobb fanatics like me will respect your opinion, as I do! I would perhaps consider going to the Tawny Man trilogy next instead of pushing through Mad Ship... which does get worse for the emotional baggage.
Thank you so much for watching, Josh! I really appreciate your thoughts, several of my other friends have shared similar sentiments about moving on through the series, and I trust you guys! I'm going to set it down for now, and if I continue I will most likely continue with Tawny Man. :)
Thank you so much Tori for making this video, and for sharing your thoughts and feelings on it. I really appreciate your open and honest take. I have a lot of triggers and have to be vary wary of what books I pick up, so I sincerely thank you for chatting a bit about your experience. This will help me level my expectations to see how I feel after reading assassins quest if I want to read the live ship series or go on to the next Fitz books. I just read Deadhouse gates and while I loved it, it hit almost all my triggers, so trying not to have too many reads like that in a row. Thank you so much again.
I'm stubborn. Lol XD I definitely intend to finish the trilogy because I want to be able to read the whole RotE saga. But I'm not going to read book 2 for a while, giving myself a lot of time to finish. If it were anyone but Hobb, I'd probably dnf.
Jimmy knows what he’s talking about. 😬 I think the payoff is epic and moving and deeply thought provoking, but then I really enjoyed SoM. Good thing you’ve got some light, pain-free Malazan to dig into. 😜
I definitely think DNF’ing might not be a bad idea but if you’re really committed to continuing at least you kinda know what to expect on an emotional level. I binged the trilogy and I was so emotionally exhausted after SoD. The series caused a lot of difficult personal memories to resurface but something about reading it actually helped me to process some feelings I had so it ended up being a positive experience in my case. It’s so interesting how the same book can impact everyone in such different ways. I really enjoy hearing your thoughts and look forward to your discussion with Derri. ❤️
Hey Alex! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and watching the video. I think you guys are right, and I really appreciate all the concern about my experience moving forward. That's been really helpful in my process trying to decide whether to continue Liveships or not, and I think I'm going to put it down for now. I'm so glad that you were able to find it helpful to process the difficult experiences! I love that books have the power to do that.
I completely understand your frustrations with Ship of Magic. While I binged the Liveship Traders trilogy over the course of a single month, I was going on the adrenaline that the action-driven narrative gave me--which is unusual for me considering I'm not typically an action-driven narrative reader. Upon re-read of Ship of Magic though, I had to set it down multiple times. Though I wouldn't call every character insufferable, I will say that Robin Hobb writes such realistic characters that, in comparison to the catharsis of reading Fitz's perspective in the Farseer, Tawny Man, and Fitz & the Fool trilogies, are draining and, at times, triggering, as individual characters as well as what they are going through. Paragon is the absolute best!
Thank you so much, Evie, I appreciate you watching! I would agree with you that Hobb is good at pulling realistic character traits into the cast, and that's one of the reasons why that emotional drain is so absolute. For me, it's hard when the entire book is run by those narratives. It leans into a more nihilistic feel that I don't enjoy in books.
Love your honesty. It’s always interesting hearing dissenting opinions. I’m going to be reading this for the first time in the coming months. Been 20 years since I read the first trilogy!
I love this trilogy so much, but wow did I feel your review at the same time and could have just as easily seen myself getting burned out. Great review and thanks for being completely honest as always!
Thank you for making the video anyway. Ship of Magic is like watching a car crash in slow motion. 'Emotional burnout' describes very well how I felt reading Ship of Destiny. I don't think any other book or series has ever left me feeling so drained. Unfortunately, I didn't think the ending was satisfactory at all and so for me, there was no payoff just more punishment... I read the trilogy over a year ago, but I still feel exhausted just thinking about it. And I'm not sure I'll continue with RoE, although I liked Farseer a lot.
You laid out your thoughts really well! Even though I had a different experience and loved the series, I can see where you're coming from. Hopefully you're going to enjoy the rest more. Sometimes a little pause helps to emotionally readjust. However it goes, I'm looking forward to the next discussion ;)
Thank you for your encouragement! I agree, pauses or breaks or dnfing a series that isn't working for you is an important thing to learn, but it can be super hard.
I understand about not connecting with a book. It happens. ROTE might be a bit too much to add to my reading schedule. Anyway, I wish your next book is more to your liking. Happy reading, everyone.
-- Minor Spoilers -- I stopped at like 80ish percent of the book, picked it up 6 months later, and immediately found myself in a scene there character X chokes/hits/etc character Y. I put it down again. It's not about the violence itself, you said it beautifuly: emotional burnout
well, another book under your belt :) I love this series, but I think that from time to time, it may even help you as an author when something bugs you so much that you make it an intentional point not to do it in your books. At least you got it out of the way before too much of birthday month kicked in!!
Thanks Brian! I definitely learned a lot and did a lot of introspection because of this read, which is good. I wanted to finish it before May started. XD
I appreciate you soooo much for staying true to yourself and not being afraid to go against the hype ❤ Very interesting to hear your thoughts. Looking back, I had a very similarly frustrating and exhausting reading experience with the first two books in this series, but I sort of didn't allow myself to acknowledge that because I only saw people gushing and I was still too new to the book community to stand by my own opinions lol. By the end I did come to adore what Hobb did though, and I am actually very eager to reread it with the right mindset. Also, about what you said about the endless trauma and despair... that makes me very curious to see how you are going to think of Dark Age when you get to that one. I personally think in both cases (this series and Red Rising) it was extremely heavy, but my deeper emotional investment in the Red Rising cast carried me through it, I think. Anyway, I hope you get on better with the rest of the books when you continue. Paragon is indeed the MVP, but Malta also became a fave for me. Good on you for giving it some breathing space, take it easy! 🥰
Thank you so much for the kind words, as always, Esmay! There's no way I could've faked a different reaction to this book, and I wouldn't want to. I'm a big believer in the fact that we all experience stories differently and that part of the beauty of that is when we can have discussions about how those experiences differ. I obviously haven't gotten to Dark Age yet, but my presumption with that one is that it may frustrate me with similar cycles of negative events, but it isn't the first book in a series, and it's a series that has earned my trust. So I would guess that it won't spoil the whole series even if I dislike it, which, it sounds like you had a similar experience. Thanks for watching and for all your support!
@@ToriTalks2 Beautifully said!! I am currently watching the replay of the livestream you did with Derri yesterday and I am looooving the deep dive there! As for Dark Age, I have a very strong feeling that your prediction there will come true. And Pierce absolutely earns that trust, especially when you have read Light Bringer afterwards. The lows are so low but the highs are also so high, and they balance out beautifully.
Love hearing your thoughts. I really felt the same way with the first trilogy. I was talked into continuing and really enjoyed this trilogy. I see your points though and respect your point of view. Some of the most messed up characters I’ve ever read
As one of the few who liked life ship traders the least, I hear you and I had the same experience the first time through the trilogy. I felt drained reading these books. But there is help, I know Derri and Evie helped me. For me it was a matter of not listening to the audiobook. The narrator made some characters even more insufferable. And also reading the books in unison with something light so I didn't force myself. I'm close to starting my reread of ship of destiny and I have loved this reread of the first two. But I have to read these at my own pace. Hope your next read is a 5 star read
I'm looking forward to chatting to Derri about the book! I listened to a couple chapters of the audiobook and really wasn't impressed by the narrator either. Thank you so much for watching and sharing your experience!
Oh no! Im sorry that it was such a hard time for you!! Though I totally understand. I loved this book....I think it is my second favourite in the whole RotE after Fools Fate. But it is certainly relentless as far as emotional trauma goes. I actually had your very experience but with Fools Quest...the second to last book in the entire series ( so be warned 😅) I really didnt know if I could continue...I had to take a 6 month break before I read the final book. And for me it was so worth it. But dont push yourself if its not right for you ❤
Taking breaks with your hard reads is so healthy, I think! Giving yourself whatever space you need to finish or not finish is a learned skill but I'm slowly getting there. I'm glad you enjoyed the series so much!
@@ToriTalks2 yes, you are right. It really is important... especially with a lot of these big epic fantasy series that can be so emotionally harrowing!
Appreciate your thoughts on this book. I agree, it can be a bit much, and I try to tell people that. Liveship is one of my favorite series. I akin Hobb to grimdark more than others do.
Thank you, Trin! I think you're definitely on to something with the grimdark flavor. It's a different kind than we usually see utilized in grimdark, but I 100% see the comparison.
Yeah for me, I didn't have that problem with the first book, but almost didn't finish the second and third books both for the reasons you described. And honestly, if gaslighting is a particular problem for you, I have a feeling that at least one of the character's payoffs isn't going to be very satisfying at all. That was actually one of my biggest problems with this series, I only felt that a couple of the characters had satisfying endings to their stories (and it wasn't at all who I would have expected after the first book.) So far, and I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I would say that Liveship Traders is my least favorite Robin Hobb. So, no need to worry about your unpopular opinion, it's not just you!
Thank you so much! I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've heard some polarizing thoughts on the series as a whole, so I'm going into the rest of the trilogy with very tempered expectations. I really appreciate you sharing your experience!
I really liked Farseer, but the 3rd book's ending was so long and drawn out I was just done with it all when I finished and have not sought further books. Love the hat BTW.
That's how I feel about The Office. Everyone tells me you can't judge it by it's first season, but I DNF'd the first season :D That being said, I'll probably still give Hobb a chance. If everyone had the exact same tastes, how boring would life be? :P
Now I'm scared about starting that series lol. Funnily enough, I didn't enjoyed The Red Rising trilogy because it was exhausting for me in a similar way😅
That is totally fair! I think each book and the elements of it are going to resonate differently with each reader. That's the beauty of the discussions on these books. Everyone has a different perspective!
You have just made a point to me as to why I don't review books. You keep saying how brilliant a writer Robin Hobb is but how much you dislike the book. I couldn't do that. I admire you. In my opinion if the book is not good then the wtiter is not dot their job. I know that is subjective this why I don't review books. Props to you!!!!!
Hey Richard! Thanks for your comment and for watching! My opinion of the book as one individual doesn't mean it's good or bad. It's just my experience with it. There are a lot of people who love the book and would consider it a favorite read. No author can ever please every single reader. It's not possible. A book is a book, and each person is going to have a different experience with it. :)
I'm entitled to a personal opinion ;) It's weird how different people's experience can be with the same book. I'm still shocked at how I felt about it!
Wow I’m so sorry you didn’t enjoy this book Tori! I wouldn’t bother reading the others if you didn’t like this one. It is a very heavily emotional series all around.
Probabky not gonna stick around since I haven’t started any of RotE yet, but I’m getting scared now. I’ve heard several people I trust say they aren’t liking it, soo… 🤷🏼♂️ Anyways. I’ll still give it a try, but who truly knows when at this point. -T
I found the payoff at the end of Farseer a huge letdown but then it leads to Tawny Man (much loved). Liveships leads to ... Rainwilds (not much loved) 😅 I hope Liveships has strong payoff for that much trudging! Derri will surely steer you in the right direction 👍 I feel like I have a similar thing with Joe Abercrombie. Brilliant writer, especially with characters, but the tone is very one note, one colour so the stories feel flat/not-compelling for me. I also simply "check out". I need something more dynamic.
I also had a hard time with Abercrombie, for a different reason than this book, but I completely understand what you mean. The ending of the First Law trilogy drove me bonkers (not in a good way). I'm leaning towards not finishing Liveships at this time, because I don't know that the payoffs I hope for are going to be there.
I took an even more unconventional approach and read Liveships first. Completely agree that Hobb is an amazing writer. She writes spoiled teenagers incredibly well. It was just that half of the characters fall in this catagory. Couple that with some really detestable characters and it was a rough ride. I didn't find myself really invested in any of them long term but my curiosity was piqued enough to finish the series. I found the ending odd with minimal playoffs. I then read Apprentice and again some strange story elements and Fitz was a complete miss. I might be just done with Hobb but do have the next two Farseer in case I change my mind later.
I agree with you, Eric. The angst level was pretty wild. I hope that you have a good experience with the next books in the series if you do decide to jump back in!
This is what I find so difficult with Hobb. She’s a great writer, her prose is very readable to me and when she’s good she’s great. But when she’s bad (which, I’ve found, is the last books in both trilogies I’ve read) she’s so infuriatingly bad. And it feels like I’ve wasted my time reading the first two books in the trilogy. And yet the vast majority of people gush about the books I hate, so I can’t trust anyone enough to believe them when they say to carry on the rest of the series 😔 But then I’m still tempted just in case she’s good the whole way this time. It’s hard out here!
Started twice, gave up twice, just don’t get the universal love for it 😳Though I do love the other 9 realm of the elderlings….You never have to apologize for your opinion, it is yours, and to each its own ☺️
Thank you for your kind words! I appreciate you watching the video, and I'm glad I'm not alone, and that you had a good experience with the rest of the series.
Honestly, I didn’t LOVE the first book either. I found it quite slow and, perhaps not what I was in the mood for. I really enjoyed book 2 though and I’m about halfway through book 3 which I’ve been reading for months. I keep getting into other books instead. Part reading slump, part me realizing that MAYBE I’m not going to be a Hobb mega fan. I do miss Fitz though, so we’ll see…
THEO!!! What a lovely surprise to see your comment :D I am definitely ready to get back to Fitz and the Fool with the Tawny Man trilogy. I'm not planning on reading the next two books at this point. Maybe someday. How have you been?
Having read the whole trilogy, I wish I'd stopped after Ship of Magic. If you hate gaslighting, um, let's just say that the final book will be challenging.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard. I’m going to put the series on hold indefinitely. If I feel like coming back after a while I may, but no plans to do so right now.
I tried it as well. Did not like. Side note; from the looks of your hardback Malazan collection, it looks like someone else would love a republication of whole matching set of hardbacks. Having to buy odds and ends that you are lucky to find has kept me from buying any at all.
I've actually sold my other hardcovers of Malazan, I prefer the trade paperbacks! I'm one of the weird Booktubers who doesn't really care if they all match perfectly. They are super hard to find, in any matching set!
I 100% love the Farseer Trilogy much more than LiveShip....I only read the first LiveShip and I just stopped with that trilogy as I didn't really get into it. Farseer and Tawny Man >>>> LiveShip(though I only read the first one). Didn't even bother with the RainWild chronicles because hardly anyone has good things to say about that series. And for me, I 100% consider "The Realm of the Elderlings" as 3 different series. Fitz and Fool stuff is 1, LiveShip is completely separate and then RainWilds is something else as well.
@@ToriTalks2 Yeah, it's just annoying to see people say Realm of the Elderlings as a whole as if it's all the same series...or they will enter it as 1 entry in their top 10 list or something...it's not just 1 thing people : ) ... if you want to put all 3 series in your top 10, do that and rank each series separately. Just one of those pet peeves of mine.
You know I love Liveships, but I TOTALLY understand your reaction. I maybe managed more distance from all the terrible, awful things that happened, or just counted on Hobb delivering a payoff at the end of the trilogy that was worth it, which I think she did. Having said all of that, I’d hate for you to hate-read SoD, which is worse as far as terrible, awfulness goes, and I can’t say the payoff at the end would be worth it for you. Maaaaybe it’ll turn around for you, but maybe it’s actually a better idea to skip ahead to Tawny Man. 😬
Thanks for watching, Matt! I'm definitely leaning toward not reading the rest of the trilogy because of everyone's very kind and concerned advice on that front.
Wow, I knew you weren't having the best time with it, but I wasn't expecting it to be that bad. Totally understandable though. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think you're going to like where the series goes from here.
We'll see, I'm honestly shocked about it myself still. But I'm aware of some of the more controversial events in the rest of the trilogy. I wanted to know what I was getting into.
@@ToriTalks2 Yep, some dark stuff is coming up, especially in SoD. Never any harm in checking up on some potential content/trigger warnings before hand. Safe to say you like this more than Last Argument of Kings? 🤣
@@thatsci-firogue that’s a tough question. But yes, in a manner of speaking. It’s far better written imo. And with Last Argument it’s just like nothing matters. In this one, too much matters. Lol.
@@ToriTalks2 That's part of the reason I love LAoK tbh I thought it would've been cheap and inauthentic to have a different outcome. Yeah, everything feels 100% times more real with Hobb.
Ok now that I listened... what your friends said is right, it gets worse and worse then better. I totally understand the emotional burnout with that subseries. Since you loved Fitz so much, I think you could skip to the Tawny Man subseries. I haven't blasted this in any discords or on Booktube but I dnf'd the very last book of the whole series. I Loved Fool's Assassin and Fool's Quest but by the time Assassin's Fate came along.... it was the same hard, hard, hard, when is this going to be over...oops another bad guy etc etc that I said that's enough and I prefer to think of the characters like they were at the end of Tawny Man plus some of Fool's Quest. My 2 cents.
@@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD I really appreciate you sharing that, Penny. I still intend to finish Liveships, because I want to have the full range of the series under my belt, but I'm definitely going to be taking it at my own pace, whatever that ends up looking like. I'm going to have to give myself some breaks! I completely understand what you mean, that's the reason I waited so long to read the second half of Red Rising. The original trilogy was so near and dear to my heart that I didn't know if I wanted anything to add to that or cast a shadow on it.
You might want to just stop reading RotE. The final Fitz book was the saddest shit ever. Bittersweet is the most uplifting thing I could say about it. The re-read of it had be crying like a baby worse than the first read through.
I'm used to reading books with heavy/sad/dark content in them, and most often those are my favorite books. This one was just a specific combination of elements that made it really difficult to read.
To start with, I read the RotE in a somewhat strange order: first all the three "main" Fitz trilogies, and only then the "companion" ones, i.e. Liveships and Rain Wilds. Thus, my experience is probably different from someone who has read everything in the publication order. Nevertheless, I rank the trilogies as follows: Tawny Man, Fitz and the Fool, Liveships, Farseer, and Rain Wilds. Before everything, I loved or really liked most characters in Liveships, as they are so rich and multifasceted. But this is the wonder of reading books - we can be of totally different opinions. So you had problems partly with too much chaos and conflict? And because of that, you disconnected from the characters, as you didn't want to experience more horror or trauma? Sure, I can totally understand that. And if you had problems with the character of Kennit - well, then I can really undersand why you hated the book. As I see it, if you aren't in some way fascinated by Kennit, you will never love the trilogiy in any way. You don't have to love or hate him - just find him interesting. Myself, I had two dislikes in this trilogy: a spoiled little brat, and a ship that was so incredibly annoying in one of the books.
I'm not sure that I would say it was the chaos and conflict, because I often read books with both of those things in high amounts. I think it was just the constant barrage of emotionally draining characters in emotionally draining sequences of events for 800 pages. After a while, I disconnected because I was tired of it, and wasn't interested in emotionally investing when the punches are happening every five minutes. To me, really powerful emotional impact requires moments of rest and buildup and normalcy interspersed, which then makes those emotional impact moments stand out and hit harder. When the entire book is one solid emotional impact, my brain disengages from it. I personally didn't find Kennit all that interesting, but I can completely understand why others do! I find him egotistical and manipulative, and he's a gaslighter in spades, which is something I do not respond well to in any capacity. All this doesn't change how I perceive anyone who thoroughly enjoyed their experience with this trilogy. I think, like you said, every person is going to have their own unique experience with the books they read, and that makes for really interesting discussions!
@@ToriTalks2 I don't disagree at all - Hobb can sometimes lay it down a bit thick. Still, I liked the book a lot - maybe I'm something of a masochist 🙂. And different opinions are the best thing in the world! Can you otherwise even have interesting discussions? Myself, I don't see Kennit as a gaslighter per se. He is a total psychopath and doesn't think about anyone else but himself, which is so clear in his chapters, but the people around him just interpret his actions in a very different and positive way. The man totally doesn't understand people or their motivations, but thinks they are like himself. That, imo, is what makes him interesting. Nevertheless, I can totally understand why you and other people wouldn't like him. Tbh, as a "person", I ddidn't like him at all.
I'd love nothing more than to encourage you to hang in there and finish the trilogy. Its maybe my favorite trilogy of all time, the end is fantasic and Paragon becomes one of my favorite fantasy characters of all time. But unfortunately I agree with Jimmy. I know you're saying youre stubborn but I dont think you will enjoy yourself going forward. It might be better in Mad Ship but SoD is going to be extremely difficult. As an example, I disagree there is any actual gaslighting in SoM that I can remember, but there is severe gaslighting in SoD. So even just that aspect will really frustrate you. If you continue, I hope Im wrong and you end up loving it. But I also think its totally okay to recognize something isnt going well for you and you can skip to Tawny Man and be fine. Either way, thanks for sharing your experience. Its definitely a difficult book.
Big time gaslighting going on in SoD. I agree with yourself and Jimmy, best back out now. I respect Tori's determination but I truly don't think pushing through is the answer here. Taking a break however and discussing with Derri, I think is a good move however.
There is definitely some big gaslighting in SoM, so I can't imagine how much worse it must be in SoD. Paragon is almost worth finishing the series just because I want to know his story. But I know that quite a few of you guys have been really encouraging me to consider stopping, and that's where I'm leaning right now. Thanks for watching!
I don't mind insufferable characters, but when the whole book is that same tone the whole way through it's really draining. XD Have you read Ship of Magic?
Books you read for fun should be enjoyable. There are some highly rated books and series that were DNFs for me for reasons unrelated to the level of talent of the author. There is even a Robin Hobb series on that list. If you end up continuing the series because you want to turn it into future content, that is one thing. However, if you are thinking about reading it "for fun", Don't. Or rather, don't fell like you need to. There are tons quality books, a fair amount of mediocre, and probably even some poorly written ones that you would enjoy more. Be good to yourself.
Thank you so much for sharing, and I appreciate the concern. There have been quite a few comments and messages suggesting the same, and I think after some more reflection I'm going to put it down for now.
Wow, unsubbed... this is going too far!!! Joke ofcourse. I totally get this. I loved Liveships, but it was the trilogy that gave me the most anxiety. ❤
I've never been very interested in Hobb, and this continues! Is it really great prose if you can't connect to it? True quality in storytelling transcends the written word, no matter how elegant it is. I'm afraid fictional literature in its entirety is subjective because of this.
I actually think my issue was more than I connected to it a little too well, because Hobb is really good at building deep perspective characters who are all too true to life. There are characters in this book that I think all of us have experienced, and that's part of what makes it so difficult to stomach.
Assassin's Apprentice was soap opera tier contrived misery porn as well. I seriously don't get what people see in Hobb. Mediocre plot and characters in a weak fantasy veneer.
I disagree with you on the quality of her writing. But I definitely struggled with the structure of this plotline when it comes to the constant onslaught of traumatic and negative experience.
THANK YOU TORI! I for one like hearing responses to these books that don't fall into the gush category, and for pretty much the reasons you just made. I WANT to think about the elements in them that will impact people differently, how else would I know when an aspect I don't notice, or aren't bothered by, is one that could spoil someone else's enjoyment?
I am SUPER looking forward to talking to you about Ship of Magic, and DON'T WORRY EVERYONE, my goal isn't as simple as convincing Tori to continue. My ❤Hobb ❤ goal is *always* for readers to enjoy what they're reading. If after a discussion I don't think Tori would benefit from the rest of the story - I WILL TOTALLY 'CLIFF NOTES' THEM FOR HER, and instead suggest moving on to Tawny Man.
Kudos Tori, that took guts.
Thank you so much for your kind words, Derri.
I’m not the only one!?!?!? Bless you for posting this review, now I don’t feel so alone. I finished the trilogy earlier this year and disliked each book more than the last. I wish I had quit with book one, but because I told myself it was an “objectively good” book and I should see how things come together before judging, I stuck through to see the payoff at the end. And was deeply disappointed. I don’t even think it’s an “objectively good” series anymore, there are storytelling choices that are very poor later in the story. If you felt like this about book one, I don’t know if I would recommend continuing. If I could talk to past me, I would certainly suggest not to. Thanks again for the honest review!! Hope your next read is better.
That was one of the reasons I posted it, because I knew I couldn't have been the only one on the struggle bus!
I'm glad that you found something that resonated with you in my review, and I'm definitely hesitant to continue the series at this point based on what everyone has suggested and shared.
I enjoyed book one and two well enough because I thought Hobb knew what she was building and where it was going…and then Ship of Destiny happened. Absolutely soured my whole experience. It’s so frustrating. Horrendously unsatisfying.
Thank you for making this video! I experience this a lot, with an even lower threshold than you I think. Sometimes I feel bad because there are so many books the community loves that I just can’t bring myself to read. I can handle some bad things happening, but I need a feeling of hope for the future. Pervasive hopelessness or grimness stresses me out while I read.
I'm glad that my review was helpful for you! And I totally understand the struggle, hopelessness as an overall theme in a story is hard for me to get behind too.
You said it perfectly when you said "everyone who reads a book is going to have a different experience." Art is subjective, so even great works of art will not work for everyone. I think you made your points very clearly and objectively, and suspect even Hobb fanatics like me will respect your opinion, as I do! I would perhaps consider going to the Tawny Man trilogy next instead of pushing through Mad Ship... which does get worse for the emotional baggage.
Thank you so much for watching, Josh! I really appreciate your thoughts, several of my other friends have shared similar sentiments about moving on through the series, and I trust you guys! I'm going to set it down for now, and if I continue I will most likely continue with Tawny Man. :)
@@ToriTalks2 I have a friend that only read the 9 Fitz books and had a great reading experience - maybe that will work for you too!
Thank you so much Tori for making this video, and for sharing your thoughts and feelings on it. I really appreciate your open and honest take. I have a lot of triggers and have to be vary wary of what books I pick up, so I sincerely thank you for chatting a bit about your experience. This will help me level my expectations to see how I feel after reading assassins quest if I want to read the live ship series or go on to the next Fitz books. I just read Deadhouse gates and while I loved it, it hit almost all my triggers, so trying not to have too many reads like that in a row. Thank you so much again.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, and I'm glad to have been helpful! It's can be tricky navigating content in our reads.
I’d 100000% recommend not continuing on if you were feeling this way in book one. I think it’ll be a very unpleasant experience
I'm stubborn. Lol XD I definitely intend to finish the trilogy because I want to be able to read the whole RotE saga. But I'm not going to read book 2 for a while, giving myself a lot of time to finish.
If it were anyone but Hobb, I'd probably dnf.
@@ToriTalks2 ooooooof, SoD is gonna be rough, but I admire the perseverance
@@thefantasynuttwork I'm a glutton for punishment, apparently. Which ironically checks out with the theme of the trilogy. XD
Jimmy knows what he’s talking about. 😬 I think the payoff is epic and moving and deeply thought provoking, but then I really enjoyed SoM. Good thing you’ve got some light, pain-free Malazan to dig into. 😜
@thefantasynuttwork I may be rethinking my determination. So many friends have stepped up to recommend I not finish.
I definitely think DNF’ing might not be a bad idea but if you’re really committed to continuing at least you kinda know what to expect on an emotional level. I binged the trilogy and I was so emotionally exhausted after SoD. The series caused a lot of difficult personal memories to resurface but something about reading it actually helped me to process some feelings I had so it ended up being a positive experience in my case. It’s so interesting how the same book can impact everyone in such different ways. I really enjoy hearing your thoughts and look forward to your discussion with Derri. ❤️
Hey Alex! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and watching the video. I think you guys are right, and I really appreciate all the concern about my experience moving forward. That's been really helpful in my process trying to decide whether to continue Liveships or not, and I think I'm going to put it down for now.
I'm so glad that you were able to find it helpful to process the difficult experiences! I love that books have the power to do that.
I completely understand your frustrations with Ship of Magic. While I binged the Liveship Traders trilogy over the course of a single month, I was going on the adrenaline that the action-driven narrative gave me--which is unusual for me considering I'm not typically an action-driven narrative reader.
Upon re-read of Ship of Magic though, I had to set it down multiple times. Though I wouldn't call every character insufferable, I will say that Robin Hobb writes such realistic characters that, in comparison to the catharsis of reading Fitz's perspective in the Farseer, Tawny Man, and Fitz & the Fool trilogies, are draining and, at times, triggering, as individual characters as well as what they are going through.
Paragon is the absolute best!
Thank you so much, Evie, I appreciate you watching!
I would agree with you that Hobb is good at pulling realistic character traits into the cast, and that's one of the reasons why that emotional drain is so absolute. For me, it's hard when the entire book is run by those narratives. It leans into a more nihilistic feel that I don't enjoy in books.
Love your honesty. It’s always interesting hearing dissenting opinions. I’m going to be reading this for the first time in the coming months. Been 20 years since I read the first trilogy!
Thanks for watching! I hope you enjoy your read 💜💜💜
Love hearing your thoughts on this!
Thanks Wizard!
Thank you so much for being honest and sharing!
Thank you so much for listening while I was reading it XD
I love this trilogy so much, but wow did I feel your review at the same time and could have just as easily seen myself getting burned out. Great review and thanks for being completely honest as always!
Thank you so much, Bryce! I appreciate your kind words. :)
Thank you for making the video anyway. Ship of Magic is like watching a car crash in slow motion. 'Emotional burnout' describes very well how I felt reading Ship of Destiny. I don't think any other book or series has ever left me feeling so drained. Unfortunately, I didn't think the ending was satisfactory at all and so for me, there was no payoff just more punishment... I read the trilogy over a year ago, but I still feel exhausted just thinking about it. And I'm not sure I'll continue with RoE, although I liked Farseer a lot.
Thank you for watching it! I've heard quite a few people make that comment about Ship of Destiny. I'm glad I decided not to continue.
I resonated with Althea, Brashen and Paragon, Wintrow was ok, so they pulled me through the whole 3 books...
You laid out your thoughts really well! Even though I had a different experience and loved the series, I can see where you're coming from. Hopefully you're going to enjoy the rest more. Sometimes a little pause helps to emotionally readjust. However it goes, I'm looking forward to the next discussion ;)
Thank you for your encouragement! I agree, pauses or breaks or dnfing a series that isn't working for you is an important thing to learn, but it can be super hard.
This is how I felt about Farseer. Too much wreckage, too little payoff. Now I know our relative thresholds!
I totally agree, Joe! Farseer was okay for me but this one was a hard NOPE. Knowing yourself as a reader is important.
I understand about not connecting with a book. It happens. ROTE might be a bit too much to add to my reading schedule. Anyway, I wish your next book is more to your liking. Happy reading, everyone.
-- Minor Spoilers --
I stopped at like 80ish percent of the book, picked it up 6 months later, and immediately found myself in a scene there character X chokes/hits/etc character Y. I put it down again. It's not about the violence itself, you said it beautifuly: emotional burnout
well, another book under your belt :) I love this series, but I think that from time to time, it may even help you as an author when something bugs you so much that you make it an intentional point not to do it in your books. At least you got it out of the way before too much of birthday month kicked in!!
Thanks Brian! I definitely learned a lot and did a lot of introspection because of this read, which is good. I wanted to finish it before May started. XD
I love Hobb, but she's not for everyone and it's good to acknowledge that. Thanks for posting your thoughts!
Thank you so much for watching!
I appreciate you soooo much for staying true to yourself and not being afraid to go against the hype ❤
Very interesting to hear your thoughts. Looking back, I had a very similarly frustrating and exhausting reading experience with the first two books in this series, but I sort of didn't allow myself to acknowledge that because I only saw people gushing and I was still too new to the book community to stand by my own opinions lol. By the end I did come to adore what Hobb did though, and I am actually very eager to reread it with the right mindset.
Also, about what you said about the endless trauma and despair... that makes me very curious to see how you are going to think of Dark Age when you get to that one. I personally think in both cases (this series and Red Rising) it was extremely heavy, but my deeper emotional investment in the Red Rising cast carried me through it, I think.
Anyway, I hope you get on better with the rest of the books when you continue. Paragon is indeed the MVP, but Malta also became a fave for me. Good on you for giving it some breathing space, take it easy! 🥰
Thank you so much for the kind words, as always, Esmay! There's no way I could've faked a different reaction to this book, and I wouldn't want to. I'm a big believer in the fact that we all experience stories differently and that part of the beauty of that is when we can have discussions about how those experiences differ.
I obviously haven't gotten to Dark Age yet, but my presumption with that one is that it may frustrate me with similar cycles of negative events, but it isn't the first book in a series, and it's a series that has earned my trust. So I would guess that it won't spoil the whole series even if I dislike it, which, it sounds like you had a similar experience.
Thanks for watching and for all your support!
@@ToriTalks2 Beautifully said!! I am currently watching the replay of the livestream you did with Derri yesterday and I am looooving the deep dive there!
As for Dark Age, I have a very strong feeling that your prediction there will come true. And Pierce absolutely earns that trust, especially when you have read Light Bringer afterwards. The lows are so low but the highs are also so high, and they balance out beautifully.
Love hearing your thoughts. I really felt the same way with the first trilogy. I was talked into continuing and really enjoyed this trilogy. I see your points though and respect your point of view. Some of the most messed up characters I’ve ever read
Thank you so much for watching and sharing! I'm really glad that you enjoyed the trilogy. I totally agree, this book is just full of them!
As one of the few who liked life ship traders the least, I hear you and I had the same experience the first time through the trilogy. I felt drained reading these books. But there is help, I know Derri and Evie helped me. For me it was a matter of not listening to the audiobook. The narrator made some characters even more insufferable. And also reading the books in unison with something light so I didn't force myself. I'm close to starting my reread of ship of destiny and I have loved this reread of the first two. But I have to read these at my own pace. Hope your next read is a 5 star read
I'm looking forward to chatting to Derri about the book! I listened to a couple chapters of the audiobook and really wasn't impressed by the narrator either. Thank you so much for watching and sharing your experience!
Oh no! Im sorry that it was such a hard time for you!! Though I totally understand. I loved this book....I think it is my second favourite in the whole RotE after Fools Fate. But it is certainly relentless as far as emotional trauma goes. I actually had your very experience but with Fools Quest...the second to last book in the entire series ( so be warned 😅) I really didnt know if I could continue...I had to take a 6 month break before I read the final book. And for me it was so worth it. But dont push yourself if its not right for you ❤
Taking breaks with your hard reads is so healthy, I think! Giving yourself whatever space you need to finish or not finish is a learned skill but I'm slowly getting there. I'm glad you enjoyed the series so much!
@@ToriTalks2 yes, you are right. It really is important... especially with a lot of these big epic fantasy series that can be so emotionally harrowing!
Appreciate your thoughts on this book. I agree, it can be a bit much, and I try to tell people that. Liveship is one of my favorite series. I akin Hobb to grimdark more than others do.
Thank you, Trin! I think you're definitely on to something with the grimdark flavor. It's a different kind than we usually see utilized in grimdark, but I 100% see the comparison.
Yeah for me, I didn't have that problem with the first book, but almost didn't finish the second and third books both for the reasons you described. And honestly, if gaslighting is a particular problem for you, I have a feeling that at least one of the character's payoffs isn't going to be very satisfying at all. That was actually one of my biggest problems with this series, I only felt that a couple of the characters had satisfying endings to their stories (and it wasn't at all who I would have expected after the first book.) So far, and I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I would say that Liveship Traders is my least favorite Robin Hobb. So, no need to worry about your unpopular opinion, it's not just you!
Thank you so much! I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've heard some polarizing thoughts on the series as a whole, so I'm going into the rest of the trilogy with very tempered expectations. I really appreciate you sharing your experience!
I really liked Farseer, but the 3rd book's ending was so long and drawn out I was just done with it all when I finished and have not sought further books. Love the hat BTW.
Farseer is definitely a slowburn trilogy for sure. And thank you! It's a new one. :D
That's how I feel about The Office. Everyone tells me you can't judge it by it's first season, but I DNF'd the first season :D That being said, I'll probably still give Hobb a chance. If everyone had the exact same tastes, how boring would life be? :P
Exactly 👌🏻
Now I'm scared about starting that series lol.
Funnily enough, I didn't enjoyed The Red Rising trilogy because it was exhausting for me in a similar way😅
That is totally fair! I think each book and the elements of it are going to resonate differently with each reader. That's the beauty of the discussions on these books. Everyone has a different perspective!
Please don't be scared!
You have just made a point to me as to why I don't review books. You keep saying how brilliant a writer Robin Hobb is but how much you dislike the book. I couldn't do that. I admire you. In my opinion if the book is not good then the wtiter is not dot their job. I know that is subjective this why I don't review books. Props to you!!!!!
Hey Richard! Thanks for your comment and for watching! My opinion of the book as one individual doesn't mean it's good or bad. It's just my experience with it. There are a lot of people who love the book and would consider it a favorite read.
No author can ever please every single reader. It's not possible. A book is a book, and each person is going to have a different experience with it. :)
That's okay. You're entitled to your wrong opinion 😂
Though I find it funny that this basically is my Malazan experience in a nutshell.
I'm entitled to a personal opinion ;)
It's weird how different people's experience can be with the same book. I'm still shocked at how I felt about it!
Wow I’m so sorry you didn’t enjoy this book Tori! I wouldn’t bother reading the others if you didn’t like this one. It is a very heavily emotional series all around.
Thank you, Chas. I'm leaning that direction right now!
Probabky not gonna stick around since I haven’t started any of RotE yet, but I’m getting scared now. I’ve heard several people I trust say they aren’t liking it, soo… 🤷🏼♂️
Anyways. I’ll still give it a try, but who truly knows when at this point.
-T
I'll be very interested in your thoughts if/when you start RotE. I think you would love her prose and worldbuilding, she's brilliant at it.
I found the payoff at the end of Farseer a huge letdown but then it leads to Tawny Man (much loved). Liveships leads to ... Rainwilds (not much loved) 😅 I hope Liveships has strong payoff for that much trudging! Derri will surely steer you in the right direction 👍
I feel like I have a similar thing with Joe Abercrombie. Brilliant writer, especially with characters, but the tone is very one note, one colour so the stories feel flat/not-compelling for me. I also simply "check out". I need something more dynamic.
I also had a hard time with Abercrombie, for a different reason than this book, but I completely understand what you mean. The ending of the First Law trilogy drove me bonkers (not in a good way).
I'm leaning towards not finishing Liveships at this time, because I don't know that the payoffs I hope for are going to be there.
I love your beanie!
Thanks so much! :D It's a new one!
I took an even more unconventional approach and read Liveships first.
Completely agree that Hobb is an amazing writer. She writes spoiled teenagers incredibly well.
It was just that half of the characters fall in this catagory. Couple that with some really detestable characters and it was a rough ride. I didn't find myself really invested in any of them long term but my curiosity was piqued enough to finish the series. I found the ending odd with minimal playoffs.
I then read Apprentice and again some strange story elements and Fitz was a complete miss.
I might be just done with Hobb but do have the next two Farseer in case I change my mind later.
I agree with you, Eric. The angst level was pretty wild. I hope that you have a good experience with the next books in the series if you do decide to jump back in!
This is what I find so difficult with Hobb. She’s a great writer, her prose is very readable to me and when she’s good she’s great. But when she’s bad (which, I’ve found, is the last books in both trilogies I’ve read) she’s so infuriatingly bad. And it feels like I’ve wasted my time reading the first two books in the trilogy. And yet the vast majority of people gush about the books I hate, so I can’t trust anyone enough to believe them when they say to carry on the rest of the series 😔 But then I’m still tempted just in case she’s good the whole way this time. It’s hard out here!
Started twice, gave up twice, just don’t get the universal love for it 😳Though I do love the other 9 realm of the elderlings….You never have to apologize for your opinion, it is yours, and to each its own ☺️
Thank you for your kind words! I appreciate you watching the video, and I'm glad I'm not alone, and that you had a good experience with the rest of the series.
Honestly, I didn’t LOVE the first book either. I found it quite slow and, perhaps not what I was in the mood for. I really enjoyed book 2 though and I’m about halfway through book 3 which I’ve been reading for months. I keep getting into other books instead. Part reading slump, part me realizing that MAYBE I’m not going to be a Hobb mega fan. I do miss Fitz though, so we’ll see…
THEO!!! What a lovely surprise to see your comment :D I am definitely ready to get back to Fitz and the Fool with the Tawny Man trilogy. I'm not planning on reading the next two books at this point. Maybe someday.
How have you been?
Having read the whole trilogy, I wish I'd stopped after Ship of Magic.
If you hate gaslighting, um, let's just say that the final book will be challenging.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard. I’m going to put the series on hold indefinitely. If I feel like coming back after a while I may, but no plans to do so right now.
I tried it as well. Did not like. Side note; from the looks of your hardback Malazan collection, it looks like someone else would love a republication of whole matching set of hardbacks. Having to buy odds and ends that you are lucky to find has kept me from buying any at all.
I've actually sold my other hardcovers of Malazan, I prefer the trade paperbacks! I'm one of the weird Booktubers who doesn't really care if they all match perfectly. They are super hard to find, in any matching set!
I 100% love the Farseer Trilogy much more than LiveShip....I only read the first LiveShip and I just stopped with that trilogy as I didn't really get into it. Farseer and Tawny Man >>>> LiveShip(though I only read the first one). Didn't even bother with the RainWild chronicles because hardly anyone has good things to say about that series. And for me, I 100% consider "The Realm of the Elderlings" as 3 different series. Fitz and Fool stuff is 1, LiveShip is completely separate and then RainWilds is something else as well.
It's definitely multiple series within the umbrella, for sure. I know Liveships is popular, but I also enjoyed Farseer better!
@@ToriTalks2 Yeah, it's just annoying to see people say Realm of the Elderlings as a whole as if it's all the same series...or they will enter it as 1 entry in their top 10 list or something...it's not just 1 thing people : ) ... if you want to put all 3 series in your top 10, do that and rank each series separately. Just one of those pet peeves of mine.
You know I love Liveships, but I TOTALLY understand your reaction. I maybe managed more distance from all the terrible, awful things that happened, or just counted on Hobb delivering a payoff at the end of the trilogy that was worth it, which I think she did.
Having said all of that, I’d hate for you to hate-read SoD, which is worse as far as terrible, awfulness goes, and I can’t say the payoff at the end would be worth it for you. Maaaaybe it’ll turn around for you, but maybe it’s actually a better idea to skip ahead to Tawny Man. 😬
And the Queen of Queen Hobb and the Beanie Queen discussing a challenging book? Bring it ON. 😀
Thanks for watching, Matt! I'm definitely leaning toward not reading the rest of the trilogy because of everyone's very kind and concerned advice on that front.
It's going to be a great discussion!!!
Wow, I knew you weren't having the best time with it, but I wasn't expecting it to be that bad. Totally understandable though. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think you're going to like where the series goes from here.
We'll see, I'm honestly shocked about it myself still. But I'm aware of some of the more controversial events in the rest of the trilogy. I wanted to know what I was getting into.
@@ToriTalks2 Yep, some dark stuff is coming up, especially in SoD. Never any harm in checking up on some potential content/trigger warnings before hand.
Safe to say you like this more than Last Argument of Kings? 🤣
@@thatsci-firogue that’s a tough question. But yes, in a manner of speaking. It’s far better written imo. And with Last Argument it’s just like nothing matters. In this one, too much matters. Lol.
@@ToriTalks2 That's part of the reason I love LAoK tbh I thought it would've been cheap and inauthentic to have a different outcome. Yeah, everything feels 100% times more real with Hobb.
😮 ok I'm listening now.
Lol
Ok now that I listened... what your friends said is right, it gets worse and worse then better. I totally understand the emotional burnout with that subseries.
Since you loved Fitz so much, I think you could skip to the Tawny Man subseries. I haven't blasted this in any discords or on Booktube but I dnf'd the very last book of the whole series. I Loved Fool's Assassin and Fool's Quest but by the time Assassin's Fate came along.... it was the same hard, hard, hard, when is this going to be over...oops another bad guy etc etc that I said that's enough and I prefer to think of the characters like they were at the end of Tawny Man plus some of Fool's Quest. My 2 cents.
@@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD I really appreciate you sharing that, Penny. I still intend to finish Liveships, because I want to have the full range of the series under my belt, but I'm definitely going to be taking it at my own pace, whatever that ends up looking like. I'm going to have to give myself some breaks!
I completely understand what you mean, that's the reason I waited so long to read the second half of Red Rising. The original trilogy was so near and dear to my heart that I didn't know if I wanted anything to add to that or cast a shadow on it.
@@ToriTalks2 💗
PENNY!
It's ok, I still love you. 😚
You might want to just stop reading RotE. The final Fitz book was the saddest shit ever. Bittersweet is the most uplifting thing I could say about it. The re-read of it had be crying like a baby worse than the first read through.
I'm used to reading books with heavy/sad/dark content in them, and most often those are my favorite books. This one was just a specific combination of elements that made it really difficult to read.
To start with, I read the RotE in a somewhat strange order: first all the three "main" Fitz trilogies, and only then the "companion" ones, i.e. Liveships and Rain Wilds. Thus, my experience is probably different from someone who has read everything in the publication order. Nevertheless, I rank the trilogies as follows: Tawny Man, Fitz and the Fool, Liveships, Farseer, and Rain Wilds.
Before everything, I loved or really liked most characters in Liveships, as they are so rich and multifasceted. But this is the wonder of reading books - we can be of totally different opinions.
So you had problems partly with too much chaos and conflict? And because of that, you disconnected from the characters, as you didn't want to experience more horror or trauma? Sure, I can totally understand that. And if you had problems with the character of Kennit - well, then I can really undersand why you hated the book. As I see it, if you aren't in some way fascinated by Kennit, you will never love the trilogiy in any way. You don't have to love or hate him - just find him interesting.
Myself, I had two dislikes in this trilogy: a spoiled little brat, and a ship that was so incredibly annoying in one of the books.
I'm not sure that I would say it was the chaos and conflict, because I often read books with both of those things in high amounts. I think it was just the constant barrage of emotionally draining characters in emotionally draining sequences of events for 800 pages.
After a while, I disconnected because I was tired of it, and wasn't interested in emotionally investing when the punches are happening every five minutes. To me, really powerful emotional impact requires moments of rest and buildup and normalcy interspersed, which then makes those emotional impact moments stand out and hit harder. When the entire book is one solid emotional impact, my brain disengages from it.
I personally didn't find Kennit all that interesting, but I can completely understand why others do! I find him egotistical and manipulative, and he's a gaslighter in spades, which is something I do not respond well to in any capacity.
All this doesn't change how I perceive anyone who thoroughly enjoyed their experience with this trilogy. I think, like you said, every person is going to have their own unique experience with the books they read, and that makes for really interesting discussions!
@@ToriTalks2 I don't disagree at all - Hobb can sometimes lay it down a bit thick. Still, I liked the book a lot - maybe I'm something of a masochist 🙂. And different opinions are the best thing in the world! Can you otherwise even have interesting discussions?
Myself, I don't see Kennit as a gaslighter per se. He is a total psychopath and doesn't think about anyone else but himself, which is so clear in his chapters, but the people around him just interpret his actions in a very different and positive way. The man totally doesn't understand people or their motivations, but thinks they are like himself. That, imo, is what makes him interesting. Nevertheless, I can totally understand why you and other people wouldn't like him. Tbh, as a "person", I ddidn't like him at all.
I'd love nothing more than to encourage you to hang in there and finish the trilogy. Its maybe my favorite trilogy of all time, the end is fantasic and Paragon becomes one of my favorite fantasy characters of all time. But unfortunately I agree with Jimmy. I know you're saying youre stubborn but I dont think you will enjoy yourself going forward. It might be better in Mad Ship but SoD is going to be extremely difficult. As an example, I disagree there is any actual gaslighting in SoM that I can remember, but there is severe gaslighting in SoD. So even just that aspect will really frustrate you.
If you continue, I hope Im wrong and you end up loving it. But I also think its totally okay to recognize something isnt going well for you and you can skip to Tawny Man and be fine.
Either way, thanks for sharing your experience. Its definitely a difficult book.
Big time gaslighting going on in SoD. I agree with yourself and Jimmy, best back out now. I respect Tori's determination but I truly don't think pushing through is the answer here. Taking a break however and discussing with Derri, I think is a good move however.
There is definitely some big gaslighting in SoM, so I can't imagine how much worse it must be in SoD. Paragon is almost worth finishing the series just because I want to know his story. But I know that quite a few of you guys have been really encouraging me to consider stopping, and that's where I'm leaning right now.
Thanks for watching!
@@ToriTalks2 Trust us, Tori. The gaslighting gets so much worse. Regardless, we respect whatever decision you choose to make.
tbh the more insufferable the characters are the more I'm enticed to pick the book up 🤣
I don't mind insufferable characters, but when the whole book is that same tone the whole way through it's really draining. XD
Have you read Ship of Magic?
@@ToriTalks2 no but I def will soon!
you are going to LOVE The Liveship Traders!
The nine books that follow fitz are amazing the others are meh
Wait for Kyle to reendear himself to you 😂
Never gonna happen. 😂
Hi 👋 sorry 😔 you didn’t like this book…. I hope u like the rest of the book… 📕
Thank you! I'm definitely planning on finishing the trilogy.
Books you read for fun should be enjoyable. There are some highly rated books and series that were DNFs for me for reasons unrelated to the level of talent of the author. There is even a Robin Hobb series on that list.
If you end up continuing the series because you want to turn it into future content, that is one thing. However, if you are thinking about reading it "for fun", Don't. Or rather, don't fell like you need to. There are tons quality books, a fair amount of mediocre, and probably even some poorly written ones that you would enjoy more.
Be good to yourself.
Thank you so much for sharing, and I appreciate the concern. There have been quite a few comments and messages suggesting the same, and I think after some more reflection I'm going to put it down for now.
RoTE in general is very non standard in a way of its gonna have a positive payoff tbh…
Robin Hobb is great but the Liveship series is not the best part of her work. I didn't care for most of it.
Wow, unsubbed... this is going too far!!!
Joke ofcourse. I totally get this. I loved Liveships, but it was the trilogy that gave me the most anxiety. ❤
LOL! Ironically I have lost some subscribers over this video already 😅 But I can definitely relate to the high anxiety with this trilogy.
@ToriTalks2 people who unsub for this opinion are people you don't need, Tori. Ridiculous. You were very respectful. Not even ranting.
@@chadia25 thanks Chadia! I appreciate the support. 💜 It’s okay, I know a lot of people (me included) feel strongly about their favorites.
I've never been very interested in Hobb, and this continues! Is it really great prose if you can't connect to it? True quality in storytelling transcends the written word, no matter how elegant it is. I'm afraid fictional literature in its entirety is subjective because of this.
I actually think my issue was more than I connected to it a little too well, because Hobb is really good at building deep perspective characters who are all too true to life. There are characters in this book that I think all of us have experienced, and that's part of what makes it so difficult to stomach.
First
Assassin's Apprentice was soap opera tier contrived misery porn as well.
I seriously don't get what people see in Hobb. Mediocre plot and characters in a weak fantasy veneer.
I disagree with you on the quality of her writing. But I definitely struggled with the structure of this plotline when it comes to the constant onslaught of traumatic and negative experience.