I don't know any specific names but 4x Halberd class destroyers from Halo vs two types of Warbirds from Star Track of your choice or anyone else who comes across this comment
I think the Procursator is the best overall star destroyer. It's also the most underrated. It's deadly in ship-to-ship, especially for its size. If I had to make an imperial fleet, it would probably consist of Procursators and Victorys. And maybe Vindicators for screening. And leading the fleet would be a Recusant-class.
Something to consider: -In Squadrons, the Starhawk tractor beams wreak the hull of the ISD in under a minute. Now while the Allegiance may have the armor to take it...those turrets do not. They simply do not have the size or bulk to explain enough armor to survive that attack. So while I agree the armor would not take nearly as much damage, those external barbets and turrets would be crushed. That leaves an entire side of the ship without any firepower. And seeing how broad that beam is, it could quickly disable one whole side of the ship.
also: the pinning in place of the Allegiance by the Starhawk would mean it is a practically intact ship to be boarded and captured at the leisure by the NR PS: glory to loot
Yeah I feel like this was a biased versus fight honestly. Pinning a capital ship in place is a major advantage. Especially given that, like you said the tractor beam would be more than capable of disabling the weapons on and entire side of the ship. The ability to fire all forward facing weapons at a ship that is pinned in place would all but guarantee the StarHawk the win.
As I understand, these imperial ships are heavily armed, and would shred to pieces any big ship but they don't carry fighters. This means that, should their turrets be disabled (ripped apart, or rendered powerless because all available power is used by the engines to try to escape the tractor beam), they will be vulnerable to boarding parties, or any corvette/frigate/cruiser that wouldn't otherwise dare engaging it. Also, in a fleet battle, I guess starhawks could deny enemy formations, by forcing star destroyers to collide with one another or tilt them to expose their more vulnerable underbellies.
Personally I think the starhawk in round one would be a bit less one sided. Remember, this ship was not only made from star destroyer bits, but was made with bleeding edge technology including shielding and even weapons. Like, the starhawk was stated to be able to take on multiple ISD class ships and come out on top, so while yes I do see the allegiance winning, I’d say 5.5-6.5 times out of ten with technology levels and the statement somewhat helping with that.
Good points but the fact still stands that the allegiance has the firepower advantage. Even the best shield has to eventually fall to a powerful bombardment.
The "Tractor cannon" is also still going to be just as useful against the Allegiance. The allegiance itself may be able to keep itself steady, but take a closer look at what the tractor beam is doing damage-wise in that scene in the areas NOT being hit by asteroids. Its basically putting very high power gravitational forces on the ship's hull in a local area, outright stripping off armor from other armor (as the Starhawk is not just eating them like Kirby, one can assume that there are some tractor elements set up to cause incoming debris to float off to the side instead of crashing into the tractor system). Being bigger only means that the tractor beam's effects cover less of the entire ship at a time. The localized gravitic distortions may well also harm or kill crewmates in areas where the Star Destroyers own gravity systems cannot locally protect them from the forces of the Starhawk's gun. The Starhawk can do serious damage to whatever part of the Allegience it focuses the tractor on. If the starhawk has an advantage in position, being able to come at the Allegience from an above-angle for instance, they will be able to focus the tractor on one of the major barbetted areas and/or the bridge to basically disable those areas from being able to function as it causes very bad days for anyone in that part of the ship.
I don't disagree. The starhawk was intended to take on small ISD groups of the Imperial remnant 1on 1 or 2 on 1 and take away the Imperial size advantage. It was also designed to take the hits from and anchor an SSD until a fleet could overwhelm it. So, I think you've generally placed this right
You know, if there was a Project Starhawk in the Legends Timeline, and we can’t be entirely certain there wasn’t, it’d actually make sense for the Allegiance to have been built as a dedicated cruiser-killer to take out ships along the lines of the Starhawk and MC80A heavy cruisers where smaller destroyers wouldn’t be appropriate. The timelines would certainly match up, given that the Allegiance was first seen during Operation Shadow Hand.
So I started rewatching the Clone wars yesterday and on the Episode "Shadow of Malevolence" Skywalker and Shadow Squadron went through a smugglers route called Balmorra's Run. I was wondering if you could make a video explaining it or at least go more into detail?
I think the tractor beam of the Starhawk IS a winning move. You can use it to get superior positioning, halving the Allegiance's firepower while using all of its own, and importantly, presenting its incredibly-thick frontal armor as the only targetable surface for the Allegiance.
Just curious because people who dispute Eck's conclusion keep pointing out the tractor beam will allow the Starhawk to get superior position or pin the Allegience in place. I thought tractor beams pull ships toward the tractor beam source, and that it doesn't stop the ensnared ship's ability to turn or use its own engines. Therefore the Allegience could always turn its nose toward the Starhawk, allowing it to use its full complement in a head-on battle. In addition, I assume the Starhawk would have to be facing the Allegience to fully utilize it's tractor beams, so use of the tractor beams would always result in a nose-to-nose fight. Am I incorrect in my understanding of the tractor beam?
@@AfrinonM If you want to rotate an object by pulling it, just pull it at one of the ends aka off center. No, the tractor beam doesn't disable a ship's thrusters, but it can honestly probably overcome them this case. That's because the tractor beam would only need to fight a small portion of the engines' thrust. If the two started out facing one-another, the Starhawk could either move into broadside, turn toward it, and use its tractor beam to maintain that position by pulling on the fore or aft, or it could just use the tractor beam from right there by pulling on the left or right.
@@tkc1129 Got it. Didn't realize the tractor beams were precise enough and had a small enough effect area to discretely pull specific parts of the ship. In that case, I think the effectiveness of forcibly turning a ship will be affected significantly by a few factors that I don't know about the Allegiance: 1) mass distribution: one can definitely turn any object by applying force off center, but the moment of force will be greater if the mass is concentrated in the center of mass. Inversely, the more the mass is distributed away from the center, the less powerful the moment will be. It's the difference between trying to turn a sheet of metal in the shape of the supremacy vs. a ball of metal with a wire frame in the shape of the supremacy. The first, representing a distributed mass, will be hard to get turning, while the second will be easy. 2) tractor application area vs. engine output: depending on where the Starhawk is attempting to turn the Allegiance, I believe it won't be an insignificant amount of thrust to overcome. If it is attempting to turn the ship left or right from head-on, then it will have to fight 50% of the Allegiance's turning thrust. The Allegiance never needs to beat the tractor beam, it only needs to match it with that 50% turning thrust to stay on target. Heck, with the Starhawk pulling half the ship, the Allegiance could reduce power to the engines on that half and distribute it to the other half/to weapons and shields. 3) Speed and maneuverability: all that said, it would indeed be a difficult battle for the Allegiance if the Starhawk approached or was able to maneuver to the side and bring it's tractor beam to bear from that angle as the Allegiance has no direct thrust to counteract it. However, the Starhawk has limited use of the tractor beam while attempting to reach this position. If the Allegiance is of equal speed and maneuverability or greater to the Starhawk and is knowledgeable of its capabilities, then its ideal move would be to make it difficult for the Starhawk to fully utilize its tractor beam and turn the fight into a slugfest. The Allegiance is more likely to win this, even if they are fighting in broadside. Additionally, if the Starhawk was able to maneuver to the side of the Allegiance, it may have another issue in trying to keep the Allegiance from turning its nose to face head on. The Starhawk must pull on the back half in order to prevent this turning. However, Star Destroyers always have their center of mass closer to the back; the engines, power core, bridge, etc. are all back there. Pulling on the back at this angle would generate the smallest moment of force possible out of any configuration, like trying to use a short wrench to twist a stuck nut. Again, all of these are factors, not a definitive decision. I don't know enough about either ship to tell if they favor the Allegiance or the Starhawk, but it leads me to believe that the tractor beam array isn't enough to fully seal the deal.
Fleet battle between Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron.
@@ohionumber1247 a man can hope plus I think a lot of people like this idea. With Eck doing vs. videos again I think there’s a good chance he’ll do this one.
What would really be great would be a fleet battle between Thrawn and Miles Vorkosigan. It'd be hilarious to see Thrawn try to outwit Miles' combination of tactics, plot armor, and obscene amounts of luck. The dude's literally Jar Jar but competent.
Video idea. How different would battles in legends be with the New Republic using the Starhawk. From the Thrawn trilogy to the yuuzhan vong war. How effective would have it been?
The Starhawk would be at a significant disadvantage due to the weapon placement. Even with an ideal engagement with the tractor, she can't shoot back with her full weapons, where as the Allegiance can bring nearly her full complement of weapons on target with a nose in angle (something almost no other ISD's can do). The Starhawk's best engagement for her main weapons is broad side, and that's half her weapons or with the target above her (6 emplacements). E.G. the most favorable angle of attack for the Starhawk has her employing less than half the weapons systems the Allegiance can bring to bear at her worst angle of attack. I'm building a 1:1000 scale ship based off the allegiance and I can 100% say that one element constantly lost in the portrayals of these ships is just how devastating that much covering fire would be against star fighters. For perspective, look at the effectiveness of AA on WW2 era battleships. Star fighters coming in at that speed against 200+ small weapon emplacements would be absolutely shredded. Against rear angle attacks, if the ship if it simply turns and goes the other way puts the fighters in a limited cone of engagement. Basically it would be a kill box. The best the Starhawk could manage would be a 2v1 where the firepower deficit could be somewhat equalized and one can hold the Allegiance still to prevent rolling the shield coverage. 1v1 I can't see one ever winning against an Allegiance.
I will never, ever get used to you introducing yourself as Justin. It's always weird to me, no matter how many times you say it. I mean nothing wrong with it of course, just it was eckhesrtsladder for so long, it always trips me up. Lol
I’m gonna answer these for fun because with no research. 1. I’d say The Nebula because it has much more advanced fighters. I’d say it’s pretty evenly matched but the nebula takes it. 2. Resurgence. Resurgent was an absolute beast and was only 2 and a half kilometer shorter than the bellator. It had thousands of weapons and extremely advanced technology compared to the bellator. 3. This is probably the toughest one. But I would say the N+E take it. The endurance and nebula both carry K wings and e wings which are absolute beasts and the nebula was said to be able to be able to hold its own against a dreadnought.
We don't entirely know how the Starhawk's tractor beam affects ships. It's quite possible that being a more massive, more heavily-armoured vessel is actually a disadvantage, because it gives the tractor beam more mass to work with. (For example, in 40k Grav weapons work better on heavily armoured targets.) Manoeuvre is also a factor- the Allegiance has that wedge shape meaning a ship to its rear or broadside takes a lot less fire. If the Starhawk can get to that position, even for a moment, and then lock it in place with the tractor beam then the Allegiance is in serious trouble.
#ASKECK Rewatched Episode 2 and noticed that when Fett killed Coleman Trebor, Dooku looked indifferent or even smug, but when Fett was killed, he was visibly distraught. Shouldn't he have known Trebor pretty well, and at the end of the day, Fett is just a bounty hunter. Any lore behind this, or what would your head canon thoughts be? Also, if he had survived, how do you think Jango would have reacted to fighting his own clones in the arena and throughout the Clone War? #ASKECK
I'm pretty sure dooku's look was more disturbed/pity than distraught, since he was standing with Boba, the only unchanged clone whom jango saw as a son, so Dooku was just reacting to the fact that the kid he was standing with just saw his father being decapitated.
I too would like to hear what people think about Jango's place in the Clone Wars, had he survived to see them. There was a comic that sheds a little light on this. I forget the issue details, but it was set during the decade of putting together the Grand Army of the Republic to be. Jango Fett was contracted by Tyranus to hunt a certain target that turned out to be a Clone. The Clone tried to challenge him about the morality and philosophy of the job... Fett killed him. Later he would reflect on that job enough to tell Boba about it. Take that for what you will.
Spoils for anyone looking at the comments before watching! I'll be honest, having gone into this versus with very little knowledge of either vessel (waiting on a flight stick before I play Squadrons and never read into the Allegiance specifically) and only looked at the image Eck posted on Twitter yesterday, I immediately put my money on the Allegiance because holy hell is that a lot of weapons XD the thing screamed "Capital ship killer" to me the second I saw it, meanwhile I thought the Starhawk was some kind of strike carrier with a Galactica-style launch tube at the front lmao really interesting match-up despite my mistaken thoughts about the Starhawk, but apparently sometimes appearances can be pretty telling
@@gilowar Potentially but depending on the radius of the actual field or how concentrated it is it may not be able to destroy enough of them in time. They are spread pretty widely across the Allegiance and should be able to maintain fire against the Starhawk, and would be smart enough to target that region first. But that's why this battle is so close that tractor beam seems Crazy powerful lmao
I could imagine two Starhawks having the power to rip the Allegiance in half. In terms in 1v1 though Id say it comes down to how close they are. The Starhawk would win in melee range easily, but long range the Allegiance would overpower it.
Depends on missile and fighter range. If the Allegiance is lacking in PDCs, then theoretically the Starhawk could launch fighters and missiles at an even further range (since in SW it seems missiles have longer range than guns) than the Allegiance while repositioning itself out of the heaviest firing arcs of the Allegiance.... depending on each ships maneuverability relative to one another. Not to mention that the Starhawk tech is bleeding edge by NR standards and the Allegiance by Imperial standards.... which may offset some of that firepower the Allegiance has since the NR tech has much better shields on their side (generally) in both legends and canon than imperial designs did.
If I remember correctly tractor beams can strip shields. Either that or the Starhawk lock on to the bank of the alligence to pitch it up and reducing the available firming arcs
This is just a personal theory, but I think the Starhawk was meant to fight in large fleet battles. When two fleets engage, the Starhawk would pull out ships from their positions, one by one, towards its allies, making it an easy picking. Kinda like what happens in Empire at War when one ship advances too much and it gets completely obliterated within seconds. I think this would explain why the prototype does not/cannot fire its batteries during its tractor beam phase.
I could swear I read in a legends novel that a tractor generator has to be massively reinforced because it technically gets pulled towards whatever it's pulling to it. And that attempting to tractor something too massive wouldn't go well for the generator or the ship it's mounted on.
I'm sure there are some significant alterations to the tech, like, say, pulling and pushing on different parts of the target to sheer it to pieces while the Tractor itself is unmoved.
@@nickmalachai2227 With a single projector, no. The Starhawk has several, which does grant a lot more options. I think it would be easier to turn an enemy ship around and blast away without getting shot, although that may not be easy or quick with a powerful target such as an ISD.
I’m sensing a pattern with the Starhawk and Malevolence loosing, you don’t trust specialized weapons & value standard fire power more. However given what the tractor beam did to the ISD, armor shouldn’t be a factor here. It may take longer but it could peel back the layers. Keep in mind the tractor beam of a World Devastator also destroyed a Super Star Destroyer without issue.
I feel like the first round would actually go in the Starhawk's favor, as we see in Squadrons that the tractor beam, while it did pull a decent amount of material off of the ISD, was more importantly able to both turn and move an ISD. I think this would be key in a fight against the Allegiance, as while that ship is around twice as massive as an ISD, three Starhawks being able to move an SSD makes me think the Starhawk will still be able to bully it in a similar fashion to the ISD. Assuming it can, the Starhawk can simply force the nose of Allegiance upwards, blocking the majority of its weapons from firing while also exposing the massive reactor, which would undoubtedly be an easy target to hit and, once damaged, would cripple the Allegiance to a point where it simply could not fight back. There's also the fact that the Starhawk's main systems are far better protected than those on the Allegiance, and its shields are likely far more powerful, so it probably is the better ship at soaking damage.
This is my assesment as well, the whole point of massive tractor beams is to exploit the wedge shape of KDY ships and prevent them from pointing their contentrated forward fire arcs at anything of value. Without a ship like the Starhawk a Rebel fleet needs to use fighters and corvette sized ships to manuver into the ISD's rear, but this means maintaining fleets of many such size ships which inevitably take major losses in an engagement even if they win. A single Starhawk turns a costly win into a easy one and makes anything less then 3 ISD's untenable as blockading force as they would be destroyed piecemeal by rebels with minmal losses, even escaping a fight with a Starhawk is unlikely which means a StarHawk is effectivly an Interdictor ship as well.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez, no wonder the starhawk scared imperials. It's bigger than an ISD and packs MORE guns. Starting to make sense why they were a little bit nervous fighting this thing. I don't remember the ISD2 having any ion cannons. Where'd you get that?
1 great video. 2 still my favorite outtro on all of UA-cam. 3 ngl that split gate gameplay was kinda jarring when it first appeared, was not expecting it 😂
interesting conclusion, but what if the starhawk used its tractor beam to rotate it onto its stomach (so to speak) and flipping it over? Or even turning it around to fire at the engines thus giving it more power to throw the ship around.
Not sure about a simple firepower or fighter to fighter comparison, but it would be hard to ignore the Dreadnaught's reality bending ontological super weapon that seems like it could pretty much delete anything in its vicinity.
@@HighFromCost , If "vicinity" is defined as "within several thousand kilometers"... then... you have a valid point. Someone brought this topic up well over a year ago... and I did the math... Oryx's Dreadnought is 100+ KM long... Nothing in Star Wars is able to destroy it. It's able to withstand the equivalent of a Force Storm without a scratch. Capable of shrugging off rocks thrown at it (unlike what we see in The Empire Strikes Back). Only factions with massive reality bending properties/capabilities are able to stand up to Oryx's Dreadnought... Which is almost none. Warhammer 40K has several factions which could take on Oryx... probably several entities in Star Trek... After them, I don't know of anything which can compare, lol. Furthermore, only the plot armour of the Destiny Series is able to allow the Guardians to actually win any battles... If they were written appropriately the Guardians and the Last City would be destroyed by the Vex...
@@aralornwolf3140 I would also like to point out that the Harbingers the Queen used to attack Oryx’s Dreadnaught are incredibly powerful. In Destiny lore that is canon, it’s said the Queen destroyed a little over half of the House of Wolves fleet with a single harbinger. Mara Sov fired all but one of her harbingers at Oryx’s Dreadnaught and they did nothing to his ship.
@@SeriouslySirius1066 , Exactly what I meant when I said "Force Storm". Oryx vs Star Wars is a pointless discussion. A more amusing one would be Tenno vs Guardians. ;)
I think the Starhawk has some slightly better odds than you think, but it would fall to opening maneuvers. the Alligience design has corrected some of the flaws in ISD design, but a majority of it's weaponry is still on the dorsal portion of it's wedge. if the Starhawk can dive beneath it's depression angle and then lock their tractor on, they can spend however long they want kidney punching the Alligience with little repercussions. The Starhawk also would have the benefit of dumping all it's shield power into a single facing as the Alligience lacks fighter support to keep them honest.
Eck, I agree that ditching the ISDs is kind of a dumb idea for the New Republic however, I can also understand the mentality behind it. The New Republic wants to distance itself from the Empire, and literally show that they are different. Keeping ISDs in the NR Navy might incite distrust with some systems. Especially since one purpose of the ISD under the Tarkin Doctrine was to intimidate others into submission.
I don't like a lot of stuff in the new Canon (vs. old Legends), but I do really like the Starhawk. It makes sense that the New Republic would want to dismantle the weapons of the Empire, which were themselves built on the corrupted legacy of the old (Middle?) Republic. Also, it calls to mind the hammerheaded shape of the Old Republic's golden age before the demilitarization. It's the perfect projection of power and legacy. It's a shame the New Republic didn't follow it up with anything meaningful (like it did it Legends).
Honestly when i've to fight a big ship like the alligiance i'd never go for a frontal assault (suicide attack) rather do a quick hyper space jumb, go on the back of the ship, destroy his shields and engine then i can chip away (relaxed mode) the armour without fighters
One on one the starhalk can use the tractor beam to lock the ship in a tactical position where the big guns can’t fire like the belly and just keep firing.
I really feel that starfighters aren’t nearly as powerful as they are portrayed. Now yes, rogue squadron was stronk, even they were afraid of taking an impstar deuce on with reinforcements let alone if they were alone. Now yes, they took down the lusankya with a little bit of extra firepower from freighters with proton torpedos slaved to the xwings fire control (read insane torpedo spam). However, 2 squadrons of scrubs assigned to a starhawk won’t make that massive of a difference. Rogue squadron did what it did because they were the best of the best and had plot levels of coordination whilst the tie fighters had plot levels of lack of coordination. Just saying that if a couple of squadrons of xwings could do that much damage why did the rebels even bother with capitol ships? Dollars to donuts xwings are far cheaper then a neublon b and waaaaaayy cheaper then anything the Mon Cals make. Those extra good shield generators cost.
The Starhawk does have 6 squadrons , 72 starfighters of elite class. And the Starhawk too would have the best pilots placed on it right . If it could take hits from SSD and still function properly , the Allegiance would not be a big deal
@@sumukhvmrsat6347 “Dared enough to go one on one” whilst being supported by multiple capital ships, that crippled the SSDs engine so the starhawk could suicide itself into the atmosphere bringing the SSD with it. That’s like saying David 1v1nd Goliath, but instead of the normal story David’s buddies broke both of Goliath’s feet and then David dragged Goliath into the water to drown him, whilst also drowning in the process. Oh, wait, sorry, David got mauled by Goliath during all of that too. The concord was not going to survive that fight, the Ravager was, at least until the Concord dragged it into the gravity well. That is no where close to the Concord taking it on solo. As to the number of fighters, if you listened to the vidjéo you would have noticed he gave the starhawk 2 squadrons, due to limitations in the rebel fleets ability to actually field craft. Which, ties into my next bit, pilots. The best of the best went to rogue squadron and pash crackens A-wings. They were the best available. The average pilot, wasn’t anywhere near that level of coordinated. While yes, they could be a nuisance, as long as the shields are up on the Allegiance they aren’t going to be able to make hull runs. Once the shields are down, they could try to attack vulnerable points, but they would have to be dodging the “warhead launchers” and the allegiances tractor beams.
@@juangonzalez9848in canon , Starhawk is the best and most powerful warship , which gives it atleast the most above average pilots and starfighters . It would be the Flagship Of Fleets leading them And The new republic unlike the Rebel alliance would have started Fleet building on mass. If you know the Battle of Mako Ta Dockyards , Even 36 brand new Mon cala cruisers weren't enough to even withstand the Super Star destroyer . And When you say supported by Allie capital ships . In reality it broke through the ISD chain and was surrounded by the Enemy .and the starfighters were bombing the SSD . So.....
In round one I think the Starhawk uses it’s tractor beam to hold the Allegiance in place while it slingshots around below and behind, then uses the tractor beam to hold it from behind, not allowing it to direct significant firepower at the Starhawk at all. Thrawn showed clearly how the technical aspects of space warfare could let vastly outgunned ships and fleets destroy their opponents and the Starhawk is no exception. Unless the Allegiance has some sort of massive change to design like significant keel and rear facing firepower, it won’t even be able to damage the Starhawk after the initial portion of the battle.
One thing that would give the star hawk an advantage is if it were able to lock the star destroyer in a way that put its underside facing forward. Here, KDY's critical neglect of ventral weapons systems comes into play. If it's able to hold it in place, it can utilize the old separatist tactic of attacking from below the star destroyer.
Allegiance Calmly passing through a Asteroid belt ,minding it's business Starhawk Jumps out of Hyperspace : deploys Starfighters Allegiance:All hands ,Prepare for battle Starhawk's tractor beam array: glows Allegiance:Sorry I meant Prepare to Surender , we can't even run now
What's the range on the Starhawk's tractor beam? Can it latch on out of range of the Allegiance's weapons? Can it use the raw power of the tractor beam to just drag the Allegiance into an obstacle, like a moon or asteroid? Can it lock the Allegiance in place, but manoeuvrer itself to a position near the back of its opponent to target the weapons?
Vs matchup Yss-1000 saber( Halo Reach) vs T-65 X-wing(Star Wars). 2 rounds round 1 average pilot in each round 2 noble 6 in the saber vs Wedge Antilles in the X-wing
I saw this pop up on my feed and instantly watched it once I saw it. I've noticed the Allegiance in TR is not the same as the one you describe. Oh well both are pretty powerful. I think The Star Hawk is not yet done evolving. If we do see it in TV Shows or movies it could easily be different. Over all good vid bud. Peace.
Starhawk VS Gravestone! Now, since I don't know too much about the Starhawk, and the Gravestone is KIIIIINDA part of an Iokath super weapon named "Zildrog"... And well... The Gravestone quite literally blew up the entire Eternal Alliance fleet of Gemini warships in a single shot... I am fairly certain that the Gravestone was specifically designed to be able to do just that, specifically... I think... Still the two vessels looks incredibly much like each other...
Vs matchup Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars) Johnson gets Br 55, 1 m6 sidearm and marine BDU Rex gets DC 15 rifle his pistols and phase 2 clone armor
You're giving Johnson the advantage here. Captain Rex has slower weapons, and giving Johnson what are essentially "slug throwers" by starwars standards. Clone armor isn't gonna help against solid objects. It just helps disperse energy, not bullets.
I will admit my knowledge of the specifics of Galactica are limited, but to my knowledge, the lack of shields on it or its fighters makes it vulnerable to direct attack. How would such a battle play out.
@@maryjames8433 Firstly it's fighters are superior to most starwars fighters, including the Xwing, by speed alone. The speeds at which their fighters can travel is insanem Secondly the battlestar may not have shields, but it does have robust armor. They fought an opponent that used turbo laser style weaponry too, the scylons. So they'd be familiar with the kind of firepower said weapons can put out. They themselves used such weapons. But the ace up it's sleeve was always it's nukes. It's like a nuke destroyer of the modern day. It can launch dozens of high yield nukes. And it's fighters carry a low yield nuke aswell. So, it would go similarly to most starwars engagements i think. (Except with alot more nukes. Lol) And this is all from memory.
When You originally asked the question on Twitter I wasn't aware of all weapon mounts on the Allegiance, I was using wookiepedia for reference and it's severely undergunned there. The main question is- can tractor beams push Allegiance in a way that it faces upwards, exposing it's less armed belly. If yes then Starhawk wins every match easily. I would assume that's the case, Wookiepedia states "The Starhawk's tractor beam enabled it to trap and move a ship many times its size". There's also one assumption to be made- since the New Republic based on Mon Calamari cruisers it's fair to assume it's shield strength is also Mon Calamari in nature. It would also make sense, considering it's anti-capital ship firepower is more or less that of a Imperial II star destroyer while it's supposed to take those down one on one and win without sustaining major damage. So in round 1 I would give the victory to Allegiance 6 out of 10 times, while round 2 goes to Starhawk without question. We know what a squadron of x-wings, y-wings or b-wings can do to a star destroyer- Starhawk is just too beefy to be taken down quickly, while Allegiance's main batteries are destroyed by fighters/bombers.
Gonna say this before I watch the video: Starhawk wins only because it has fighters and the Allegiance doesn't. Combined the presence of starfighters with the Tractor beam, which we've seen drag an SSD down to a planet at the battle of Jakku. That said if it's just guns vs guns I think the Allegiance takes the cake. The Starhawk is no fucking joke but the Allegiance has way more heavy guns.
See, I reckon adding the fightersd makes it a mutual kill. I'd have doubts that a few squadrons would be able to take out the Allegiance's vital systems (CIC, Generator, Heavy gun mounts) before its heavy guns tear the Starhawk apart.
@@vincediscombe7360 I disagree only because of how large the Starhawk is. And you have to remember that it could use it's tractor beam to move the Allegiance into a more advantageous position. It would suck beyond measure if the Starhawk moved the Allegiance upward, robbing it of the advantage it's heaviest guns bring to the fight. From there fighter squadrons could run attacks on the ship's critical systems and weapon systems almost without contest.
@@Hawkeye83627 It's a good tactic, but I'm not entirely convinced the SH's tractor beamers can control the Allegiance's movement finely enough to stop it simply rotating to point the bow back at the starhawk from "above". Especially given how much extra power for its size the Allegiance has. From there it's a case of "target that tractor array, all batteries, fire".
@@vincediscombe7360 Agree to disagree, then. Maybe we'll get to see them fight for real sometime if Disney ever gives the Starhawk the love it deserves and gets the Allegiance back into Canon!
So because the Starhawk is constructed of another ship's features (we can all make the same Theseus arguments, maybe the Starhawk is an ISD if we all agree it is etc etc), would this put it in the same camp as Uglies?
A space battle between Kylo Ren and Obi-Wan Kenobi would be interesting. Kylo tries to kill his past, while Kenobi fights the future he failed to stop.
I love that most of the info from the Star Hawk came from FFG's Armada haha. FFG, you will be missed. X-Wing has taken it very hard. But at least the 2.0 community has stayed strong.
I like the Starhawk design, and that it weaponizes tractor beams - very cool. I think the lore behind it however makes very little sense, but thats been my issue with new Canon quite often. Where are these vessels manufactured? How is the Rebel Alliance (now New Republic) able to develop a new ship design, with radical new technology (or at least radical use of old technology), and then build so many of these? Where are these ships by the time of the sequels? (I understand the New Republic 'disarmed' but the fleet over Hosnian Prime could not have been the entire fleet), others had to be out there somewhere. I'll try and read the aftermath books again at some point, but I just didn't enjoy them on my first run through.
Hat's off for originality, a ship based around using a tractor beam as a weapon is new. But it's still impractical. The energy used to have that push/pull effect would be better used in powering a stronger energy beam or more turrets, doing FAR more overall damage.
I generally agree with the results (R1 to Allegiance, R2 to Starhawk), but I don't necessarily agree with the odds. While I don't think the Allegiance could be shaken apart like an ISD would be, we do see in Squadrons that the surface turrets on the ISD are not having a good time. The Allegiance's surface guns would likely get ripped apart by the tractor beam. I also think that the existence of a fighter complement would make a bigger difference than depicted in R2.
A Galactic Versus I think might be interesting would be if the Mass Effect Galaxy could fend off Sheev's Empire. I went back and forth with another commenter about this a couple weeks ago, and I'm still fairly certain that Mass Effect weaponry has a range advantage on all but imperial super-weapons, and are very had to lock down with interdiction fields due to the use of Element zero systems, also even without mass relays Mass effect council ships can still hit 500c IIRC.
What if you took two StarHawks and put them on either end of an ISD, and had them aim their tractor beam at different strongpoints of the ship. If they had their beams pulling together, would they tear the ship in half? Or at least apart in some areas.
I think the best tactic for the Starhawk will be for it to come in behind the Allegiance and hold it in place, keep out of its kill box and just hammer away at the engines and what it can of the command structure. If anything is going to get ripped off of it by the tractorbeam I think it will be some of the engines
I personally think the star hawk could use that massive tractor beam to rip that ship apart I think that's the one major points that a lot of people miss when talking about the start hawk it was designed to kill ISD
The proper use of the StarHawks tractor beam is to flip the Allegence onto it's ventral side, which will cut off 90% of it's firepower. The Empires reliance on the KDY wedge shape makes all their ships reliant on a focused cone of forward firepower, the whole point of the StarHawks tractor beam would have been to exploit this weakness to win easily any 1v1 fight with an ISD and even be competetive against multiple ones as it could effectivly keep one out of the fight while it's fighters or weapon systems target another. The strategic value of the StarHawk is that it forces the Empire to consolidate it's ISD's into larger fleets rather then spread them out. A single ISD can normally part itself over a planet to dominate it, with the StarHawk such lone ISD's would be easy picking. By forcing concolidation the Empire will lose control of much of the galaxy.
I'm not sure it would be so one sided. Aside from the heavy armor, wasn't the Star Hawk equipped with Mon Cal shields as well? I'm thinking this is similar to an MC80 vs SD type situation. A bit uneven but well within an "any given Sunday" situation
@@someguy9070 slight chance atleast , the 5 Venators will be out of Super Star Destroyer's firing range and launch all fighters and either stay out of range, move to the rear of star destroyer with thier speed advantage while the star fighters blast the hell out of it and at max SSD only had 100 craft on-board
Visions talk will actually be on Corey's channel tonight:
ua-cam.com/users/coreysdatapad
And on my Twitch:
www.twitch.tv/eckhartsladder
White Comet Empire (Sby 2202)
Vs United Star Wars Galaxy?
What if it was the Allegiance plus two Lancer class frigates against the Starhawk carrying the max capacity of fighters?
#AskEck Starhawk (New Republic in Canon) Vs. Resurgent (First Order). Who would win?
The allegiance is so under appreciated
I don't know any specific names but 4x Halberd class destroyers from Halo vs two types of Warbirds from Star Track of your choice or anyone else who comes across this comment
I love the Allegiance. That's what I call a REAL star destroyer
I think the Procursator is the best overall star destroyer. It's also the most underrated. It's deadly in ship-to-ship, especially for its size. If I had to make an imperial fleet, it would probably consist of Procursators and Victorys. And maybe Vindicators for screening. And leading the fleet would be a Recusant-class.
yeah, project stardust doesn't do the ship justice
@@puki860 isn't that the weird roblox star wars "game" that uses alot of fannon ships?
@@puki860frrrr bro the think has like 12 guns in the game
doubt that, the allegiance is alright
The feelings I get when i open UA-cam to find another starship versus, thanks eck. Bring this channel back to its roots!
Just watching eck talk about what he loves is the best
The only bs video I still requested is the Venator Star Destroyer vs the Imperial Escort Carrier
@@bradhedgehog12 that would be interesting
Same here
Same!
Something to consider:
-In Squadrons, the Starhawk tractor beams wreak the hull of the ISD in under a minute. Now while the Allegiance may have the armor to take it...those turrets do not. They simply do not have the size or bulk to explain enough armor to survive that attack.
So while I agree the armor would not take nearly as much damage, those external barbets and turrets would be crushed. That leaves an entire side of the ship without any firepower. And seeing how broad that beam is, it could quickly disable one whole side of the ship.
also: the pinning in place of the Allegiance by the Starhawk would mean it is a practically intact ship to be boarded and captured at the leisure by the NR
PS: glory to loot
Yeah I feel like this was a biased versus fight honestly. Pinning a capital ship in place is a major advantage. Especially given that, like you said the tractor beam would be more than capable of disabling the weapons on and entire side of the ship. The ability to fire all forward facing weapons at a ship that is pinned in place would all but guarantee the StarHawk the win.
Agreed
Taken from experiencing basically that in Elite Dangerous: A ship without weapons and mass locked isn't a ship. It's a tomb.
As I understand, these imperial ships are heavily armed, and would shred to pieces any big ship but they don't carry fighters. This means that, should their turrets be disabled (ripped apart, or rendered powerless because all available power is used by the engines to try to escape the tractor beam), they will be vulnerable to boarding parties, or any corvette/frigate/cruiser that wouldn't otherwise dare engaging it.
Also, in a fleet battle, I guess starhawks could deny enemy formations, by forcing star destroyers to collide with one another or tilt them to expose their more vulnerable underbellies.
Personally I think the starhawk in round one would be a bit less one sided. Remember, this ship was not only made from star destroyer bits, but was made with bleeding edge technology including shielding and even weapons. Like, the starhawk was stated to be able to take on multiple ISD class ships and come out on top, so while yes I do see the allegiance winning, I’d say 5.5-6.5 times out of ten with technology levels and the statement somewhat helping with that.
And with starfighters id bump that up to 7 or 8 put of ten
Remember that de Allegiance was introduced around 3 ABY, not that long before the Starhawk (about 2 years before).
Good points but the fact still stands that the allegiance has the firepower advantage. Even the best shield has to eventually fall to a powerful bombardment.
The "Tractor cannon" is also still going to be just as useful against the Allegiance. The allegiance itself may be able to keep itself steady, but take a closer look at what the tractor beam is doing damage-wise in that scene in the areas NOT being hit by asteroids. Its basically putting very high power gravitational forces on the ship's hull in a local area, outright stripping off armor from other armor (as the Starhawk is not just eating them like Kirby, one can assume that there are some tractor elements set up to cause incoming debris to float off to the side instead of crashing into the tractor system).
Being bigger only means that the tractor beam's effects cover less of the entire ship at a time. The localized gravitic distortions may well also harm or kill crewmates in areas where the Star Destroyers own gravity systems cannot locally protect them from the forces of the Starhawk's gun.
The Starhawk can do serious damage to whatever part of the Allegience it focuses the tractor on. If the starhawk has an advantage in position, being able to come at the Allegience from an above-angle for instance, they will be able to focus the tractor on one of the major barbetted areas and/or the bridge to basically disable those areas from being able to function as it causes very bad days for anyone in that part of the ship.
Do you mean leading edge?
I don't disagree. The starhawk was intended to take on small ISD groups of the Imperial remnant 1on 1 or 2 on 1 and take away the Imperial size advantage. It was also designed to take the hits from and anchor an SSD until a fleet could overwhelm it. So, I think you've generally placed this right
Ooh, another verses? Nice! I do like the fact that the Starhawk looks distinctive enough, it's not just another wedge.
You know, if there was a Project Starhawk in the Legends Timeline, and we can’t be entirely certain there wasn’t, it’d actually make sense for the Allegiance to have been built as a dedicated cruiser-killer to take out ships along the lines of the Starhawk and MC80A heavy cruisers where smaller destroyers wouldn’t be appropriate. The timelines would certainly match up, given that the Allegiance was first seen during Operation Shadow Hand.
Fractal makes some of the best looking ships I've ever seen.
And Disney steals his designs because they have the creativity of a rock.
@@robertnelson9599 Disney seems to be stealing from every artist. You should see the comics.
I think he may have made the Allegiance a bit TOO chunky, from the original comic art - but maybe that's just me. I remember it a little sleeker.
So I started rewatching the Clone wars yesterday and on the Episode "Shadow of Malevolence" Skywalker and Shadow Squadron went through a smugglers route called Balmorra's Run. I was wondering if you could make a video explaining it or at least go more into detail?
I think the tractor beam of the Starhawk IS a winning move. You can use it to get superior positioning, halving the Allegiance's firepower while using all of its own, and importantly, presenting its incredibly-thick frontal armor as the only targetable surface for the Allegiance.
Or the tractor beam can destroy the weapons of the allegiance? The hull might be to strong but the weapons arent.
@@gilowar True, it may be able to pull weapons out of their sockets. That is scary.
Just curious because people who dispute Eck's conclusion keep pointing out the tractor beam will allow the Starhawk to get superior position or pin the Allegience in place. I thought tractor beams pull ships toward the tractor beam source, and that it doesn't stop the ensnared ship's ability to turn or use its own engines. Therefore the Allegience could always turn its nose toward the Starhawk, allowing it to use its full complement in a head-on battle. In addition, I assume the Starhawk would have to be facing the Allegience to fully utilize it's tractor beams, so use of the tractor beams would always result in a nose-to-nose fight.
Am I incorrect in my understanding of the tractor beam?
@@AfrinonM If you want to rotate an object by pulling it, just pull it at one of the ends aka off center. No, the tractor beam doesn't disable a ship's thrusters, but it can honestly probably overcome them this case. That's because the tractor beam would only need to fight a small portion of the engines' thrust. If the two started out facing one-another, the Starhawk could either move into broadside, turn toward it, and use its tractor beam to maintain that position by pulling on the fore or aft, or it could just use the tractor beam from right there by pulling on the left or right.
@@tkc1129 Got it. Didn't realize the tractor beams were precise enough and had a small enough effect area to discretely pull specific parts of the ship.
In that case, I think the effectiveness of forcibly turning a ship will be affected significantly by a few factors that I don't know about the Allegiance:
1) mass distribution: one can definitely turn any object by applying force off center, but the moment of force will be greater if the mass is concentrated in the center of mass. Inversely, the more the mass is distributed away from the center, the less powerful the moment will be. It's the difference between trying to turn a sheet of metal in the shape of the supremacy vs. a ball of metal with a wire frame in the shape of the supremacy. The first, representing a distributed mass, will be hard to get turning, while the second will be easy.
2) tractor application area vs. engine output: depending on where the Starhawk is attempting to turn the Allegiance, I believe it won't be an insignificant amount of thrust to overcome. If it is attempting to turn the ship left or right from head-on, then it will have to fight 50% of the Allegiance's turning thrust. The Allegiance never needs to beat the tractor beam, it only needs to match it with that 50% turning thrust to stay on target. Heck, with the Starhawk pulling half the ship, the Allegiance could reduce power to the engines on that half and distribute it to the other half/to weapons and shields.
3) Speed and maneuverability: all that said, it would indeed be a difficult battle for the Allegiance if the Starhawk approached or was able to maneuver to the side and bring it's tractor beam to bear from that angle as the Allegiance has no direct thrust to counteract it. However, the Starhawk has limited use of the tractor beam while attempting to reach this position. If the Allegiance is of equal speed and maneuverability or greater to the Starhawk and is knowledgeable of its capabilities, then its ideal move would be to make it difficult for the Starhawk to fully utilize its tractor beam and turn the fight into a slugfest. The Allegiance is more likely to win this, even if they are fighting in broadside.
Additionally, if the Starhawk was able to maneuver to the side of the Allegiance, it may have another issue in trying to keep the Allegiance from turning its nose to face head on. The Starhawk must pull on the back half in order to prevent this turning. However, Star Destroyers always have their center of mass closer to the back; the engines, power core, bridge, etc. are all back there. Pulling on the back at this angle would generate the smallest moment of force possible out of any configuration, like trying to use a short wrench to twist a stuck nut.
Again, all of these are factors, not a definitive decision. I don't know enough about either ship to tell if they favor the Allegiance or the Starhawk, but it leads me to believe that the tractor beam array isn't enough to fully seal the deal.
Fleet battle between
Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin
Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron.
I remeber seeing you on another video
It was an old one I can’t believe you still asking. That’s dedication
@@ohionumber1247 a man can hope plus I think a lot of people like this idea. With Eck doing vs. videos again I think there’s a good chance he’ll do this one.
As smart as Ender is I doubt anyone tops Thrawn. And Ender isn’t without flaw as he can get flustered
What would really be great would be a fleet battle between Thrawn and Miles Vorkosigan. It'd be hilarious to see Thrawn try to outwit Miles' combination of tactics, plot armor, and obscene amounts of luck. The dude's literally Jar Jar but competent.
Video idea. How different would battles in legends be with the New Republic using the Starhawk. From the Thrawn trilogy to the yuuzhan vong war. How effective would have it been?
I hope we see a new Mark of Starhawks in the Rogue Squadron movie! It's one of my favorite new ships.
The Starhawk would be at a significant disadvantage due to the weapon placement. Even with an ideal engagement with the tractor, she can't shoot back with her full weapons, where as the Allegiance can bring nearly her full complement of weapons on target with a nose in angle (something almost no other ISD's can do). The Starhawk's best engagement for her main weapons is broad side, and that's half her weapons or with the target above her (6 emplacements). E.G. the most favorable angle of attack for the Starhawk has her employing less than half the weapons systems the Allegiance can bring to bear at her worst angle of attack.
I'm building a 1:1000 scale ship based off the allegiance and I can 100% say that one element constantly lost in the portrayals of these ships is just how devastating that much covering fire would be against star fighters. For perspective, look at the effectiveness of AA on WW2 era battleships. Star fighters coming in at that speed against 200+ small weapon emplacements would be absolutely shredded. Against rear angle attacks, if the ship if it simply turns and goes the other way puts the fighters in a limited cone of engagement. Basically it would be a kill box.
The best the Starhawk could manage would be a 2v1 where the firepower deficit could be somewhat equalized and one can hold the Allegiance still to prevent rolling the shield coverage. 1v1 I can't see one ever winning against an Allegiance.
Grand Admiral Eck has returned!
Ec Henry’s b-wing concept was in Star Wars visions specifically the episode Akakira in the beginning
Stolen or acquired lawfully this time?
@@quox3987 I want to state that the tie dagger was not stolen, it was based on TFA concept art which predated EC Henry’s video
@@evanhenderson1760 I remember the vid, I’m glad it’s not stolen.
@@quox3987 me too, sadly the b-wing was stolen as the op stated
@@evanhenderson1760 damn. Well thanks for answering my question.
I will never, ever get used to you introducing yourself as Justin.
It's always weird to me, no matter how many times you say it.
I mean nothing wrong with it of course, just it was eckhesrtsladder for so long, it always trips me up. Lol
OH GAWD. I thought I was the only one who thinks like that haha. I totally agree! It's bin Eck for too long haha :D
Awesome Versus!
I‘d love to see
Nebula vs Starhawk
Bellator vs Resurgence
Nebula + Endurance vs Bellator
#starshipversus #askeck
I’m gonna answer these for fun because with no research.
1. I’d say The Nebula because it has much more advanced fighters. I’d say it’s pretty evenly matched but the nebula takes it.
2. Resurgence. Resurgent was an absolute beast and was only 2 and a half kilometer shorter than the bellator. It had thousands of weapons and extremely advanced technology compared to the bellator.
3. This is probably the toughest one. But I would say the N+E take it. The endurance and nebula both carry K wings and e wings which are absolute beasts and the nebula was said to be able to be able to hold its own against a dreadnought.
The star hawk is probably my favorite capital ship in star wars cosmetically. Thanks for doing another video on it.
I agree, it really is an awesome ship design. I particularly like that it weaponizes Tractor Beam technology.
I agree. It reminds of the hammerhead corvettes. But using the tractor beam and expose SSD weak points is a smart idea
I gotta say, I didn't see this one when it came out! Praise to your vacation playlist
We don't entirely know how the Starhawk's tractor beam affects ships. It's quite possible that being a more massive, more heavily-armoured vessel is actually a disadvantage, because it gives the tractor beam more mass to work with. (For example, in 40k Grav weapons work better on heavily armoured targets.) Manoeuvre is also a factor- the Allegiance has that wedge shape meaning a ship to its rear or broadside takes a lot less fire. If the Starhawk can get to that position, even for a moment, and then lock it in place with the tractor beam then the Allegiance is in serious trouble.
#ASKECK Rewatched Episode 2 and noticed that when Fett killed Coleman Trebor, Dooku looked indifferent or even smug, but when Fett was killed, he was visibly distraught. Shouldn't he have known Trebor pretty well, and at the end of the day, Fett is just a bounty hunter. Any lore behind this, or what would your head canon thoughts be? Also, if he had survived, how do you think Jango would have reacted to fighting his own clones in the arena and throughout the Clone War? #ASKECK
I'm pretty sure dooku's look was more disturbed/pity than distraught, since he was standing with Boba, the only unchanged clone whom jango saw as a son, so Dooku was just reacting to the fact that the kid he was standing with just saw his father being decapitated.
I too would like to hear what people think about Jango's place in the Clone Wars, had he survived to see them.
There was a comic that sheds a little light on this. I forget the issue details, but it was set during the decade of putting together the Grand Army of the Republic to be.
Jango Fett was contracted by Tyranus to hunt a certain target that turned out to be a Clone. The Clone tried to challenge him about the morality and philosophy of the job... Fett killed him. Later he would reflect on that job enough to tell Boba about it. Take that for what you will.
Spoils for anyone looking at the comments before watching!
I'll be honest, having gone into this versus with very little knowledge of either vessel (waiting on a flight stick before I play Squadrons and never read into the Allegiance specifically) and only looked at the image Eck posted on Twitter yesterday, I immediately put my money on the Allegiance because holy hell is that a lot of weapons XD the thing screamed "Capital ship killer" to me the second I saw it, meanwhile I thought the Starhawk was some kind of strike carrier with a Galactica-style launch tube at the front lmao really interesting match-up despite my mistaken thoughts about the Starhawk, but apparently sometimes appearances can be pretty telling
Whouldnt the starhawk's tractor beam be able to just destroy the turrets?
@@gilowar Potentially but depending on the radius of the actual field or how concentrated it is it may not be able to destroy enough of them in time. They are spread pretty widely across the Allegiance and should be able to maintain fire against the Starhawk, and would be smart enough to target that region first. But that's why this battle is so close that tractor beam seems Crazy powerful lmao
@@gilowar As I said at the beginning though I thought the Starhawk was some kind of specialized carrier so it was only my initial thoughts lol
I could imagine two Starhawks having the power to rip the Allegiance in half.
In terms in 1v1 though Id say it comes down to how close they are. The Starhawk would win in melee range easily, but long range the Allegiance would overpower it.
Imagine how terrifying that would be.
Depends on missile and fighter range. If the Allegiance is lacking in PDCs, then theoretically the Starhawk could launch fighters and missiles at an even further range (since in SW it seems missiles have longer range than guns) than the Allegiance while repositioning itself out of the heaviest firing arcs of the Allegiance.... depending on each ships maneuverability relative to one another. Not to mention that the Starhawk tech is bleeding edge by NR standards and the Allegiance by Imperial standards.... which may offset some of that firepower the Allegiance has since the NR tech has much better shields on their side (generally) in both legends and canon than imperial designs did.
If I remember correctly tractor beams can strip shields. Either that or the Starhawk lock on to the bank of the alligence to pitch it up and reducing the available firming arcs
MC 90 vs nebula class
Would be very interested how this turns out, especially with different formfactors however similar philosophy
Please make a versus of Resurgent-class Star Destroyer vs Starhawk-class battleship
Resurgent wins.
The only thing that holds back the Allegiance is the lack of a hangar and fighters. Allegiance-II is needed.
This is just a personal theory, but I think the Starhawk was meant to fight in large fleet battles. When two fleets engage, the Starhawk would pull out ships from their positions, one by one, towards its allies, making it an easy picking. Kinda like what happens in Empire at War when one ship advances too much and it gets completely obliterated within seconds. I think this would explain why the prototype does not/cannot fire its batteries during its tractor beam phase.
I could swear I read in a legends novel that a tractor generator has to be massively reinforced because it technically gets pulled towards whatever it's pulling to it. And that attempting to tractor something too massive wouldn't go well for the generator or the ship it's mounted on.
I'm sure there are some significant alterations to the tech, like, say, pulling and pushing on different parts of the target to sheer it to pieces while the Tractor itself is unmoved.
@@nickmalachai2227 With a single projector, no. The Starhawk has several, which does grant a lot more options. I think it would be easier to turn an enemy ship around and blast away without getting shot, although that may not be easy or quick with a powerful target such as an ISD.
THANK GOD THE RETURN OF VERSUS
I’m sensing a pattern with the Starhawk and Malevolence loosing, you don’t trust specialized weapons & value standard fire power more.
However given what the tractor beam did to the ISD, armor shouldn’t be a factor here. It may take longer but it could peel back the layers. Keep in mind the tractor beam of a World Devastator also destroyed a Super Star Destroyer without issue.
The mandalorian fang fighter vs a X-Wing please! Also I love that you've brought these back!
I feel like the first round would actually go in the Starhawk's favor, as we see in Squadrons that the tractor beam, while it did pull a decent amount of material off of the ISD, was more importantly able to both turn and move an ISD. I think this would be key in a fight against the Allegiance, as while that ship is around twice as massive as an ISD, three Starhawks being able to move an SSD makes me think the Starhawk will still be able to bully it in a similar fashion to the ISD. Assuming it can, the Starhawk can simply force the nose of Allegiance upwards, blocking the majority of its weapons from firing while also exposing the massive reactor, which would undoubtedly be an easy target to hit and, once damaged, would cripple the Allegiance to a point where it simply could not fight back.
There's also the fact that the Starhawk's main systems are far better protected than those on the Allegiance, and its shields are likely far more powerful, so it probably is the better ship at soaking damage.
Bro , that turning the nose and attacking the reactor bulb part , u killed it
This is my assesment as well, the whole point of massive tractor beams is to exploit the wedge shape of KDY ships and prevent them from pointing their contentrated forward fire arcs at anything of value. Without a ship like the Starhawk a Rebel fleet needs to use fighters and corvette sized ships to manuver into the ISD's rear, but this means maintaining fleets of many such size ships which inevitably take major losses in an engagement even if they win. A single Starhawk turns a costly win into a easy one and makes anything less then 3 ISD's untenable as blockading force as they would be destroyed piecemeal by rebels with minmal losses, even escaping a fight with a Starhawk is unlikely which means a StarHawk is effectivly an Interdictor ship as well.
Honestly, most vs requires some force circumstances, since almost all ships would be part of a fleet that should cover their weaknesses.
X Wing vs E Wing
Because one directly replaced the other
(Maybe use one of the upgraded x wings from legends so it’s more fair or even a t-70 or 80
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez, no wonder the starhawk scared imperials. It's bigger than an ISD and packs MORE guns.
Starting to make sense why they were a little bit nervous fighting this thing.
I don't remember the ISD2 having any ion cannons. Where'd you get that?
1 great video.
2 still my favorite outtro on all of UA-cam.
3 ngl that split gate gameplay was kinda jarring when it first appeared, was not expecting it 😂
A part of me wonders if the starhawk's profile came from rebel familiarity with ships like the Nebulon B
I Dont Know Why But The Aliigence Has Just Been My Favorite Star Destroyer ever since i descoverd it
You knew you've been watching Eck's TR streams when you give the Starhawk with fighters 9/10 odds of winning.
interesting conclusion, but what if the starhawk used its tractor beam to rotate it onto its stomach (so to speak) and flipping it over? Or even turning it around to fire at the engines thus giving it more power to throw the ship around.
The possibilities to be explored here are better than the Starhawk's conventional weaponry.
Galactic versus idea: could Oryx's dreaghtnought from Destiny stand up against an Executor or Eclipse?
Yes. Very much so. The question is... how much of the Executor or Eclipse will remain?
Not sure about a simple firepower or fighter to fighter comparison, but it would be hard to ignore the Dreadnaught's reality bending ontological super weapon that seems like it could pretty much delete anything in its vicinity.
@@HighFromCost ,
If "vicinity" is defined as "within several thousand kilometers"... then... you have a valid point.
Someone brought this topic up well over a year ago... and I did the math... Oryx's Dreadnought is 100+ KM long... Nothing in Star Wars is able to destroy it. It's able to withstand the equivalent of a Force Storm without a scratch. Capable of shrugging off rocks thrown at it (unlike what we see in The Empire Strikes Back).
Only factions with massive reality bending properties/capabilities are able to stand up to Oryx's Dreadnought... Which is almost none. Warhammer 40K has several factions which could take on Oryx... probably several entities in Star Trek... After them, I don't know of anything which can compare, lol.
Furthermore, only the plot armour of the Destiny Series is able to allow the Guardians to actually win any battles... If they were written appropriately the Guardians and the Last City would be destroyed by the Vex...
@@aralornwolf3140 I would also like to point out that the Harbingers the Queen used to attack Oryx’s Dreadnaught are incredibly powerful. In Destiny lore that is canon, it’s said the Queen destroyed a little over half of the House of Wolves fleet with a single harbinger. Mara Sov fired all but one of her harbingers at Oryx’s Dreadnaught and they did nothing to his ship.
@@SeriouslySirius1066 ,
Exactly what I meant when I said "Force Storm".
Oryx vs Star Wars is a pointless discussion.
A more amusing one would be Tenno vs Guardians. ;)
Thank you so much for bringing starship vs back . I've missed it.
One of best channels available.....
Thank you for bringing them back!!
I think the Starhawk has some slightly better odds than you think, but it would fall to opening maneuvers. the Alligience design has corrected some of the flaws in ISD design, but a majority of it's weaponry is still on the dorsal portion of it's wedge. if the Starhawk can dive beneath it's depression angle and then lock their tractor on, they can spend however long they want kidney punching the Alligience with little repercussions. The Starhawk also would have the benefit of dumping all it's shield power into a single facing as the Alligience lacks fighter support to keep them honest.
At long last!!! Another Starship verses!!!
Eck, I agree that ditching the ISDs is kind of a dumb idea for the New Republic however, I can also understand the mentality behind it. The New Republic wants to distance itself from the Empire, and literally show that they are different. Keeping ISDs in the NR Navy might incite distrust with some systems. Especially since one purpose of the ISD under the Tarkin Doctrine was to intimidate others into submission.
I don't like a lot of stuff in the new Canon (vs. old Legends), but I do really like the Starhawk. It makes sense that the New Republic would want to dismantle the weapons of the Empire, which were themselves built on the corrupted legacy of the old (Middle?) Republic. Also, it calls to mind the hammerheaded shape of the Old Republic's golden age before the demilitarization. It's the perfect projection of power and legacy. It's a shame the New Republic didn't follow it up with anything meaningful (like it did it Legends).
Honestly when i've to fight a big ship like the alligiance i'd never go for a frontal assault (suicide attack) rather do a quick hyper space jumb, go on the back of the ship, destroy his shields and engine then i can chip away (relaxed mode) the armour without fighters
One on one the starhalk can use the tractor beam to lock the ship in a tactical position where the big guns can’t fire like the belly and just keep firing.
Gotta do a resurgent vs an allegiance. that'd be such a cool fight!
I love the Allegiance Class, it's definitely one of my favorite Star Destroyer designs along with the Harrower Class from the Old Republic era
Tector, "Who are you?"
Allegiance, "I'm you, but on 'roids."
Love this stuff, keep it coming! I would like a Star Wars Vision video and what episode you loved in great detail!
I really feel that starfighters aren’t nearly as powerful as they are portrayed. Now yes, rogue squadron was stronk, even they were afraid of taking an impstar deuce on with reinforcements let alone if they were alone. Now yes, they took down the lusankya with a little bit of extra firepower from freighters with proton torpedos slaved to the xwings fire control (read insane torpedo spam). However, 2 squadrons of scrubs assigned to a starhawk won’t make that massive of a difference. Rogue squadron did what it did because they were the best of the best and had plot levels of coordination whilst the tie fighters had plot levels of lack of coordination. Just saying that if a couple of squadrons of xwings could do that much damage why did the rebels even bother with capitol ships? Dollars to donuts xwings are far cheaper then a neublon b and waaaaaayy cheaper then anything the Mon Cals make. Those extra good shield generators cost.
The Starhawk does have 6 squadrons , 72 starfighters of elite class. And the Starhawk too would have the best pilots placed on it right . If it could take hits from SSD and still function properly , the Allegiance would not be a big deal
And to the fact that , The captain of the Starhawk dared enough to go one on one on a Freaking SSD is enough to say their trust on the Starhawk
@@sumukhvmrsat6347
“Dared enough to go one on one” whilst being supported by multiple capital ships, that crippled the SSDs engine so the starhawk could suicide itself into the atmosphere bringing the SSD with it. That’s like saying David 1v1nd Goliath, but instead of the normal story David’s buddies broke both of Goliath’s feet and then David dragged Goliath into the water to drown him, whilst also drowning in the process. Oh, wait, sorry, David got mauled by Goliath during all of that too. The concord was not going to survive that fight, the Ravager was, at least until the Concord dragged it into the gravity well. That is no where close to the Concord taking it on solo.
As to the number of fighters, if you listened to the vidjéo you would have noticed he gave the starhawk 2 squadrons, due to limitations in the rebel fleets ability to actually field craft. Which, ties into my next bit, pilots. The best of the best went to rogue squadron and pash crackens A-wings. They were the best available. The average pilot, wasn’t anywhere near that level of coordinated. While yes, they could be a nuisance, as long as the shields are up on the Allegiance they aren’t going to be able to make hull runs. Once the shields are down, they could try to attack vulnerable points, but they would have to be dodging the “warhead launchers” and the allegiances tractor beams.
@@juangonzalez9848in canon , Starhawk is the best and most powerful warship , which gives it atleast the most above average pilots and starfighters . It would be the Flagship Of Fleets leading them And The new republic unlike the Rebel alliance would have started Fleet building on mass.
If you know the Battle of Mako Ta Dockyards , Even 36 brand new Mon cala cruisers weren't enough to even withstand the Super Star destroyer . And When you say supported by Allie capital ships . In reality it broke through the ISD chain and was surrounded by the Enemy .and the starfighters were bombing the SSD . So.....
In round one I think the Starhawk uses it’s tractor beam to hold the Allegiance in place while it slingshots around below and behind, then uses the tractor beam to hold it from behind, not allowing it to direct significant firepower at the Starhawk at all.
Thrawn showed clearly how the technical aspects of space warfare could let vastly outgunned ships and fleets destroy their opponents and the Starhawk is no exception. Unless the Allegiance has some sort of massive change to design like significant keel and rear facing firepower, it won’t even be able to damage the Starhawk after the initial portion of the battle.
One thing that would give the star hawk an advantage is if it were able to lock the star destroyer in a way that put its underside facing forward. Here, KDY's critical neglect of ventral weapons systems comes into play. If it's able to hold it in place, it can utilize the old separatist tactic of attacking from below the star destroyer.
Allegiance Calmly passing through a Asteroid belt ,minding it's business
Starhawk Jumps out of Hyperspace : deploys Starfighters
Allegiance:All hands ,Prepare for battle
Starhawk's tractor beam array: glows
Allegiance:Sorry I meant Prepare to Surender , we can't even run now
What's the range on the Starhawk's tractor beam? Can it latch on out of range of the Allegiance's weapons? Can it use the raw power of the tractor beam to just drag the Allegiance into an obstacle, like a moon or asteroid? Can it lock the Allegiance in place, but manoeuvrer itself to a position near the back of its opponent to target the weapons?
Vs matchup Yss-1000 saber( Halo Reach) vs T-65 X-wing(Star Wars). 2 rounds round 1 average pilot in each round 2 noble 6 in the saber vs Wedge Antilles in the X-wing
I saw this pop up on my feed and instantly watched it once I saw it. I've noticed the Allegiance in TR is not the same as the one you describe. Oh well both are pretty powerful. I think The Star Hawk is not yet done evolving. If we do see it in TV Shows or movies it could easily be different. Over all good vid bud. Peace.
I do agree but don't underestimate the power of Assault concussion missiles tho. Especially when it goes up against an ISD 2
Starhawk VS Gravestone!
Now, since I don't know too much about the Starhawk, and the Gravestone is KIIIIINDA part of an Iokath super weapon named "Zildrog"... And well... The Gravestone quite literally blew up the entire Eternal Alliance fleet of Gemini warships in a single shot... I am fairly certain that the Gravestone was specifically designed to be able to do just that, specifically... I think...
Still the two vessels looks incredibly much like each other...
Yayyaya!!!!! Versus!!!! I love it!!
Next do Viscount Star Defender vs Eclipse Star Destroyer
A new ship vs ship video........
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Vs matchup Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars)
Johnson gets Br 55, 1 m6 sidearm and marine BDU
Rex gets DC 15 rifle his pistols and phase 2 clone armor
You're giving Johnson the advantage here. Captain Rex has slower weapons, and giving Johnson what are essentially "slug throwers" by starwars standards. Clone armor isn't gonna help against solid objects. It just helps disperse energy, not bullets.
The star hawk vs a Battlestar, specifically from the original Battlestar Galactica series. That'd be a cool matchup i think. :)
I will admit my knowledge of the specifics of Galactica are limited, but to my knowledge, the lack of shields on it or its fighters makes it vulnerable to direct attack. How would such a battle play out.
@@maryjames8433 Firstly it's fighters are superior to most starwars fighters, including the Xwing, by speed alone.
The speeds at which their fighters can travel is insanem
Secondly the battlestar may not have shields, but it does have robust armor. They fought an opponent that used turbo laser style weaponry too, the scylons.
So they'd be familiar with the kind of firepower said weapons can put out.
They themselves used such weapons.
But the ace up it's sleeve was always it's nukes. It's like a nuke destroyer of the modern day. It can launch dozens of high yield nukes. And it's fighters carry a low yield nuke aswell.
So, it would go similarly to most starwars engagements i think. (Except with alot more nukes. Lol)
And this is all from memory.
Can you do an imperial light cruiser vs an mc40 light cruiser video.
When You originally asked the question on Twitter I wasn't aware of all weapon mounts on the Allegiance, I was using wookiepedia for reference and it's severely undergunned there.
The main question is- can tractor beams push Allegiance in a way that it faces upwards, exposing it's less armed belly. If yes then Starhawk wins every match easily. I would assume that's the case, Wookiepedia states "The Starhawk's tractor beam enabled it to trap and move a ship many times its size".
There's also one assumption to be made- since the New Republic based on Mon Calamari cruisers it's fair to assume it's shield strength is also Mon Calamari in nature. It would also make sense, considering it's anti-capital ship firepower is more or less that of a Imperial II star destroyer while it's supposed to take those down one on one and win without sustaining major damage.
So in round 1 I would give the victory to Allegiance 6 out of 10 times, while round 2 goes to Starhawk without question. We know what a squadron of x-wings, y-wings or b-wings can do to a star destroyer- Starhawk is just too beefy to be taken down quickly, while Allegiance's main batteries are destroyed by fighters/bombers.
Gonna say this before I watch the video: Starhawk wins only because it has fighters and the Allegiance doesn't. Combined the presence of starfighters with the Tractor beam, which we've seen drag an SSD down to a planet at the battle of Jakku.
That said if it's just guns vs guns I think the Allegiance takes the cake. The Starhawk is no fucking joke but the Allegiance has way more heavy guns.
See, I reckon adding the fightersd makes it a mutual kill. I'd have doubts that a few squadrons would be able to take out the Allegiance's vital systems (CIC, Generator, Heavy gun mounts) before its heavy guns tear the Starhawk apart.
@@vincediscombe7360 I disagree only because of how large the Starhawk is. And you have to remember that it could use it's tractor beam to move the Allegiance into a more advantageous position. It would suck beyond measure if the Starhawk moved the Allegiance upward, robbing it of the advantage it's heaviest guns bring to the fight. From there fighter squadrons could run attacks on the ship's critical systems and weapon systems almost without contest.
@@Hawkeye83627 It's a good tactic, but I'm not entirely convinced the SH's tractor beamers can control the Allegiance's movement finely enough to stop it simply rotating to point the bow back at the starhawk from "above". Especially given how much extra power for its size the Allegiance has. From there it's a case of "target that tractor array, all batteries, fire".
@@vincediscombe7360 Agree to disagree, then. Maybe we'll get to see them fight for real sometime if Disney ever gives the Starhawk the love it deserves and gets the Allegiance back into Canon!
So because the Starhawk is constructed of another ship's features (we can all make the same Theseus arguments, maybe the Starhawk is an ISD if we all agree it is etc etc), would this put it in the same camp as Uglies?
What if it was the Allegiance plus two Lancer class frigates against the Starhawk carrying the max capacity of fighters?
Allegiance with 2Lancers vs Starhawk with 2 Carracks
A space battle between Kylo Ren and Obi-Wan Kenobi would be interesting. Kylo tries to kill his past, while Kenobi fights the future he failed to stop.
The Star Hawk might be one of the few things from canon that I actually care about.
I think it would be interesting to see the Sidonia (from Sidonia no Kishi) go up against a CSO supercarrier.
I cried! This video is literally my dad.
Another eckharts video!
How about something like:
Modular taskforce cruiser against the DH omni.
Support ship versus support ship.
I love that most of the info from the Star Hawk came from FFG's Armada haha. FFG, you will be missed. X-Wing has taken it very hard. But at least the 2.0 community has stayed strong.
I like the Starhawk design, and that it weaponizes tractor beams - very cool.
I think the lore behind it however makes very little sense, but thats been my issue with new Canon quite often. Where are these vessels manufactured? How is the Rebel Alliance (now New Republic) able to develop a new ship design, with radical new technology (or at least radical use of old technology), and then build so many of these? Where are these ships by the time of the sequels? (I understand the New Republic 'disarmed' but the fleet over Hosnian Prime could not have been the entire fleet), others had to be out there somewhere.
I'll try and read the aftermath books again at some point, but I just didn't enjoy them on my first run through.
Hat's off for originality, a ship based around using a tractor beam as a weapon is new. But it's still impractical. The energy used to have that push/pull effect would be better used in powering a stronger energy beam or more turrets, doing FAR more overall damage.
That end of the video triple kill was scrumptious 🥵🥵🥵
I generally agree with the results (R1 to Allegiance, R2 to Starhawk), but I don't necessarily agree with the odds. While I don't think the Allegiance could be shaken apart like an ISD would be, we do see in Squadrons that the surface turrets on the ISD are not having a good time. The Allegiance's surface guns would likely get ripped apart by the tractor beam. I also think that the existence of a fighter complement would make a bigger difference than depicted in R2.
We need a spring hawk vs chimera
Thrawn vs thrawm
A Galactic Versus I think might be interesting would be if the Mass Effect Galaxy could fend off Sheev's Empire.
I went back and forth with another commenter about this a couple weeks ago, and I'm still fairly certain that Mass Effect weaponry has a range advantage on all but imperial super-weapons, and are very had to lock down with interdiction fields due to the use of Element zero systems, also even without mass relays Mass effect council ships can still hit 500c IIRC.
Back to the roots!
Great video!
It's a bit annoying how he is always clearly a bit biased towards the imperial ships though
Loved it. Thanks Eck
What if you took two StarHawks and put them on either end of an ISD, and had them aim their tractor beam at different strongpoints of the ship. If they had their beams pulling together, would they tear the ship in half? Or at least apart in some areas.
Definitely a Thrawn strategy if it works
I think the best tactic for the Starhawk will be for it to come in behind the Allegiance and hold it in place, keep out of its kill box and just hammer away at the engines and what it can of the command structure. If anything is going to get ripped off of it by the tractorbeam I think it will be some of the engines
I personally think the star hawk could use that massive tractor beam to rip that ship apart I think that's the one major points that a lot of people miss when talking about the start hawk it was designed to kill ISD
By the way I LOVE your Vs. videos
The proper use of the StarHawks tractor beam is to flip the Allegence onto it's ventral side, which will cut off 90% of it's firepower. The Empires reliance on the KDY wedge shape makes all their ships reliant on a focused cone of forward firepower, the whole point of the StarHawks tractor beam would have been to exploit this weakness to win easily any 1v1 fight with an ISD and even be competetive against multiple ones as it could effectivly keep one out of the fight while it's fighters or weapon systems target another. The strategic value of the StarHawk is that it forces the Empire to consolidate it's ISD's into larger fleets rather then spread them out. A single ISD can normally part itself over a planet to dominate it, with the StarHawk such lone ISD's would be easy picking. By forcing concolidation the Empire will lose control of much of the galaxy.
Who do you think would win in a team up fight Anakin (full potential) and Revan or Palpatine and Vitiate.
I'm not sure it would be so one sided. Aside from the heavy armor, wasn't the Star Hawk equipped with Mon Cal shields as well? I'm thinking this is similar to an MC80 vs SD type situation. A bit uneven but well within an "any given Sunday" situation
I have an idea: 10 Venator Class Star Destroyers vs 1 Executor class super star destroyer
That Sup Executor is so fricked up now
@@sumukhvmrsat6347 what do you mean?
@@someguy9070 10 venators and mainly thier star fighters will be alot for even a Executor given its vulnerability to star fighters
@@sumukhvmrsat6347 id like to think your probably right. But what about like five fully stocked venators vs 1 super star destroyer.
@@someguy9070 slight chance atleast , the 5 Venators will be out of Super Star Destroyer's firing range and launch all fighters and either stay out of range, move to the rear of star destroyer with thier speed advantage while the star fighters blast the hell out of it and at max SSD only had 100 craft on-board