Not to far fetched, there are a lot of mentions in both shows of each other. Also the most recent in Dr Who: "In "Space Babies", after travelling through time and space on the TARDIS, Ruby Sunday asks "Is that like a matter transporter, like on Star Trek?" to which the Doctor responds "We've got to visit them one day." "
I appreciated the end clips of Patti Yasutake (Nurse Alyssa Ogawa), who recently passed. (06SEP53 - 05AUG24) As always, thank you all so very much for the videos.
ten forward: i think its serendipity and a quirk. shes both aware of the flow of time and being semi-intuitive, she is "nudged" into these quirky syncretic moments a lot more often than most characters. its a bit like someone who always names their pet dog Fluffy, or how some people always pick a certain seat on the train. i think also its like when a psychic tells you "i see your future husband... look for a man riding a horse" and you keep looking for a man riding a literal horse but you never see one, and then one-day you meet a guy who drives a mustang or at the fair you meet a guy on a carousel.
Beta-canon has her species, the Q and the Prophets in a 3-way cold war in the past. The Q monitor Space, The El-Aurian Time and the Prophets the balance between them. El-Aurians always seemed a lot like Dr Who when it came to the perception of time, far greater than the Q, but they have no power over space like the Q do. Also explains how Sisko hurt Q when he punched him (Q checked for blood) because Sisko is part Prophet and its possible his hit actually hurt Q on some plain of existence Sisko doesn't know about. Q never went back to DS9, perhaps warned to stay away by the Prophets.
you missed the part where whoopi begged to be on the show to the point she said the would be a background character sweeping floors if thats all she could get
Highly recommend reading up on Texas Guinean. I love her catchphrase-“Hello, sucker!” She was prominently featured in the Ken Burns Prohibition documentary series.
10:12 Well, here's the problem with this. If Guinan got her extra senses from her time in and forceful departure from The Nexus, that would only make Guinan special, rather than the entire El-Aurian race. El-Aurians as a whole are suppose to have super-perception. This Guinan theory negates all the lore previously established about El-Aurians.
Might be a combination of both. Even if El-Aurians have super-perception in general, they might not be sensible to timeline alterations. If a part of Guinan is still trapped in Nexus than the switch to another timeline maybe seperates her further from it, leading to the feeling that something is off.
Missed opportunity for not having Guinan in the episode "Cause and Effect". She would have known that the Enterprise was repeating time again and again and would help in finding a resolution.
Picard was also in the Nexus, and didn't come out with any ESP as a result. Or perhaps it is only to El Aurians who get in there? Then Soran should also have had the same thing, and been able to evade the Kirk-Picard tag team stopping him.
I once heard a theory that the difference might be that Picard left the Nexus by choice while Guinan and Soran where pulled out forcefully by transporter. Maybe Soran had a feeling that the timeline was altered but most likely only when seeing Kirk. In yesterday's Enterprise Guinan realise that something is off by seeing people carrying weapons in ten forward and can only pinpoint that Tasha shouldn't be alive after meeting her.
They could've just used De Aging tech to address the issue of Guinan's appearance; ditto Q (all the moreso as he was a cosmic being)'s in Picard (it worked in the first Captain Marvel film with Samuel L. Jackson). Thank goodness for Michael Jan Friedman's novelization of Relics that did include the scene with Guinan & Scotty.
They were in a cold war with the Q Continuum. I think she can choose to appear however she wants. For a race of “listeners” something close to shapeshifting is almost necessary imo
Re 10-Forward. You don't seem to consider the fact that Guinan's race has the ability to sense extra-temporally and extra-dimensionally. My head canon, which I thinks works perfectly well for her species, is that she was aimlessly wandering around LA and for whatever reason, randomly stumbled onto Forward Ave and saw "10 Forward". Her "spidey sense" as it were went into overdrive as her extra-temporal senses recognized that "10 Forward" was hugely important to her life. At the time, she wouldn't have known how (see the dialog in Yesterday's Enterprise where she KNOWS Tasha shouldn't be there, because she knows she was never supposed to meet Tasha) or why 10 Forward was important, but once she saw the address, she knew it was "the place she had to be" even if she didn't know why. So she bought it and ran a bar out of it, cause that's what she does. It makes total sense to me ... her ownership of 10 Forward Ave in LA was a "Flash forward" in the same way we humans get flashbacks. Or more like "deja vu" in reverse, where she knows she's never been here, but also somehow KNOWS she WILL be "here" someday. Maybe that's not what the writer had in mind, but if I'd written that scene, it's what I'd have had in mind ...
I suppose that not meeting Scotty, Guinan was excused the problems of retconning the "death" of Kirk, which by that point had not yet been established as having been lost in the Nexus in Generations, though I do kind of wish that at the end of Generations, Scotty turned up to say goodbye to his old C/O, much like OTOY did with ther recreation of Spock mourning his old friend, as well as condolences on the passing of yet another Enterprise, but of course, we don't know what Scotty was up to at that point in the 24th century, so may have been too many light years away...
The actual person, Texas Guinan also inspired the character Panama Smith, the speakeasy owner who befriended James Cagney and not so subtly fell for him in Raoul Walsh’s gangster classic The Roaring Twenties and was played by eventual Oscar winner Gladys George. If you haven’t seen it and love old movies, check it out. Humphrey Bogart is also present, playing one of his nastiest characters, not long before he became Warner Brothers top heroic leading man.
There's an episode on Star Trek The Next Generation where The Federation is a bit more militarized. Their Guinan, once she sees Picard and how Tasha Yaar timeline was tampered on a conversation, she instantly knew that her timeline there was not meant to be. Just by talking to Picard. So what is this? It's a premonition?
I wish sack-fi was still like how it used to be there’s an episode of tos (the devil in the dark) spock says “captain we are being watched” Kirk says “intuition”? Spock says “no we are being watched” this always struck me as “beyond telepathy
10:02 Guinan has been the only El-Aurian featured in the Star Trek universe. There have been no other El-Aurian characters, that I know of, with the exception Dr. Tolian Soren, but he had gone completely insane from being torn from The Nexus. (EDIT: I forgot about whatshisname form DS9) This retcon would make El-Aurians just another species that lives a long, long time. I don't like this retcon..... Also, if the Nexus gave Guinan her extra senses, the Guinan from Picard S2 E4 would just have been like any other person, but when Picard repeated the words of her future self, she was able to hear her own voice from the future. Picard S2 E4 was long before Guinan ever got caught in or torn from The Nexus.
@@DavidNash1948 Yeah. I read the Memory Alpha page too late, but in my defense, that character was not recurring and in no way established prior to that episode or after that episode.
5:12 current Sci-Fi does not have time to "just go with it", current fans MUST have a reason for a character aging, as if it matters. Also that feature would have come up in a future Trek Culture list eventually
With regards to Picard season 2, I still find it remarkable that that despite all the potential, especially with Q and Guinan, that they still managed to make an epic dumpster fire out of it. Talk about wasted potential...🙁
I'm sad to know the 2 Guinan actors never met. I feel if anything we should try to make it happen if it was such a big influence over Ito Aghayere's young life, and getting to play the role!
the last part regarding the Nexus does not deepen the lore, it creates continuity problem - El-Aurians are meant to have this level of powers, as the Picard show also mentioned they had a war with the Q continuum, which is she's the only power with extra powers, that means that either she fought the entire war, which is way over-powered than we ever seen her, which does not stand with the fact she was afraid of the watcher, which uses technology, not super-powers, it also take away from the El-Aurian race, just building the story over guinan alone. ion of the Trav for now we can consider it a BAD beta content at best, it seems the Picard show writers are taking a different approach with the further introduction of the Travelers, which is better for the lore and future content.
@@GabePuratekuta We are told that the Elurians are a relatively normal if long lived race and a side novel says ONLY Guinan has this extra sensory time sens. Novel aside, how do we know this? What evidence do we have? What HAVE we seen? Well, we know Guinan can shape shift. We've seen it. We know in an er BEFORE the new actress she looked like Whoopi G. So... Maybe it's time travel, maybe it's shape shifting. BUT. We HAVE seen Q square off against her and actually be intimidated. But he wouldn't say anythng specific. Just "you don't know what this cr4ature is." type stuff. There are a lot of ways that could go. And there WAS a Q civil war. Do we know how that RALLY ended? Could there still be splinter factions out there that just don't overtly use their powers? Keeping time in a bottle? Sure. That's not Q level stuff at all.
Video was awesome thank you Shawn! Have you heard about what’s going on at Paramount and do we know anything from the Star Trek front about what’s going to happen to Star Trek? Not sure if you guys are aware but Paramount just fired. It’s TV section. @TrekCulture thanks for everything you guys do!
Seems like Skydance productions will continue; I think it's the CBS+Viacom (including Paramount+) side of things, that's being shuttered. My guess is that we might see another Trek movie before any new Trek shows...
Yeah… they really shouldn't have said anything about her looking older. Especially since Whoopi hos mostly just put on a bit of weight. Black don't crack.
Clips at the end showing Nurse Alyssa Ogawa reminded me that Patti Yasutake died this month. A nice, subtle tribute.
Oh no! That's so sad 😢 She was a lovely character. RIP Patti.
I loved the tribute to Patti Yasutake at the end, very nicely done.
Now we need a full-length video on Ogawa!
Great tribute to Patti Yasutake (R.I.P. 1953-2024) there at the end!
I hope that means they're going to make a 10 things about Nurse Ogawa video.
Oh... I was not aware that she had passed away. No wonder why she was all through the very end of this video. 😢
@@jasonjimerson7046she had cancer.
@@vic5015 I hate Cancer. It took a lot of people I loved.
Guinan is a Time Lord.
Allons-y!
Not to far fetched, there are a lot of mentions in both shows of each other. Also the most recent in Dr Who:
"In "Space Babies", after travelling through time and space on the TARDIS, Ruby Sunday asks "Is that like a matter transporter, like on Star Trek?" to which the Doctor responds "We've got to visit them one day." "
Demi-Time Lord?
At the very least, it's canon that she reports to one.
@@jacara1981the way its worded feels more like a visit to the shows set than the actual timeline trek would occur.
I appreciated the end clips of Patti Yasutake (Nurse Alyssa Ogawa), who recently passed. (06SEP53 - 05AUG24)
As always, thank you all so very much for the videos.
Great character and some of the best episodes with her and Picard.
Nice reference to Professor River Song!
I was hoping for more on Guinan's and Picard's relationship. The grin on Guinan's face when discussing the relationship with Riker is leading.
Guinan meeting Scotty would have further complicated what he remembers from kirks death given her knowledge of the nexus
ten forward: i think its serendipity and a quirk. shes both aware of the flow of time and being semi-intuitive, she is "nudged" into these quirky syncretic moments a lot more often than most characters.
its a bit like someone who always names their pet dog Fluffy, or how some people always pick a certain seat on the train.
i think also its like when a psychic tells you "i see your future husband... look for a man riding a horse" and you keep looking for a man riding a literal horse but you never see one, and then one-day you meet a guy who drives a mustang or at the fair you meet a guy on a carousel.
Beta-canon has her species, the Q and the Prophets in a 3-way cold war in the past. The Q monitor Space, The El-Aurian Time and the Prophets the balance between them.
El-Aurians always seemed a lot like Dr Who when it came to the perception of time, far greater than the Q, but they have no power over space like the Q do.
Also explains how Sisko hurt Q when he punched him (Q checked for blood) because Sisko is part Prophet and its possible his hit actually hurt Q on some plain of existence Sisko doesn't know about. Q never went back to DS9, perhaps warned to stay away by the Prophets.
Thanks for this. I love this canon.
That's funny actually
Where's the video on Ogawa? Come on now!
you missed the part where whoopi begged to be on the show to the point she said the would be a background character sweeping floors if thats all she could get
Me tinks we are due for a Alyssa Ogawa ep
Highly recommend reading up on Texas Guinean. I love her catchphrase-“Hello, sucker!” She was prominently featured in the Ken Burns Prohibition documentary series.
10:12 Well, here's the problem with this. If Guinan got her extra senses from her time in and forceful departure from The Nexus, that would only make Guinan special, rather than the entire El-Aurian race. El-Aurians as a whole are suppose to have super-perception. This Guinan theory negates all the lore previously established about El-Aurians.
Might be a combination of both. Even if El-Aurians have super-perception in general, they might not be sensible to timeline alterations. If a part of Guinan is still trapped in Nexus than the switch to another timeline maybe seperates her further from it, leading to the feeling that something is off.
Exactly. Like how else would they have the whole thing with the Q if they were normal
Seeing itty-bitty Guinan and Ro will never not make me giggle.
Zero things I didn't know... But she's still an absolute legend.
Missed opportunity for not having Guinan in the episode "Cause and Effect". She would have known that the Enterprise was repeating time again and again and would help in finding a resolution.
Picard was also in the Nexus, and didn't come out with any ESP as a result. Or perhaps it is only to El Aurians who get in there? Then Soran should also have had the same thing, and been able to evade the Kirk-Picard tag team stopping him.
I once heard a theory that the difference might be that Picard left the Nexus by choice while Guinan and Soran where pulled out forcefully by transporter.
Maybe Soran had a feeling that the timeline was altered but most likely only when seeing Kirk. In yesterday's Enterprise Guinan realise that something is off by seeing people carrying weapons in ten forward and can only pinpoint that Tasha shouldn't be alive after meeting her.
Would love to see a "10 Things" episode about Nurse Alyssa Ogawa.
@TrekCulture you just gave ne a great piece dor my own SciFi WIP for some Worldbuilding and a damn good Atar Trek Easter egg.
They could've just used De Aging tech to address the issue of Guinan's appearance; ditto Q (all the moreso as he was a cosmic being)'s in Picard (it worked in the first Captain Marvel film with Samuel L. Jackson).
Thank goodness for Michael Jan Friedman's novelization of Relics that did include the scene with Guinan & Scotty.
They were in a cold war with the Q Continuum. I think she can choose to appear however she wants. For a race of “listeners” something close to shapeshifting is almost necessary imo
The character Guinan was the last character that Gene Roddenberry created before he passed.
Love it!
Re 10-Forward. You don't seem to consider the fact that Guinan's race has the ability to sense extra-temporally and extra-dimensionally. My head canon, which I thinks works perfectly well for her species, is that she was aimlessly wandering around LA and for whatever reason, randomly stumbled onto Forward Ave and saw "10 Forward". Her "spidey sense" as it were went into overdrive as her extra-temporal senses recognized that "10 Forward" was hugely important to her life.
At the time, she wouldn't have known how (see the dialog in Yesterday's Enterprise where she KNOWS Tasha shouldn't be there, because she knows she was never supposed to meet Tasha) or why 10 Forward was important, but once she saw the address, she knew it was "the place she had to be" even if she didn't know why. So she bought it and ran a bar out of it, cause that's what she does.
It makes total sense to me ... her ownership of 10 Forward Ave in LA was a "Flash forward" in the same way we humans get flashbacks. Or more like "deja vu" in reverse, where she knows she's never been here, but also somehow KNOWS she WILL be "here" someday.
Maybe that's not what the writer had in mind, but if I'd written that scene, it's what I'd have had in mind ...
I like your explanation.
I didn't know that. Thank you.
I suppose that not meeting Scotty, Guinan was excused the problems of retconning the "death" of Kirk, which by that point had not yet been established as having been lost in the Nexus in Generations, though I do kind of wish that at the end of Generations, Scotty turned up to say goodbye to his old C/O, much like OTOY did with ther recreation of Spock mourning his old friend, as well as condolences on the passing of yet another Enterprise, but of course, we don't know what Scotty was up to at that point in the 24th century, so may have been too many light years away...
Oh man I would like to find out
Thanks. 🖖🏻
The actual person, Texas Guinan also inspired the character Panama Smith, the speakeasy owner who befriended James Cagney and not so subtly fell for him in Raoul Walsh’s gangster classic The Roaring Twenties and was played by eventual Oscar winner Gladys George. If you haven’t seen it and love old movies, check it out. Humphrey Bogart is also present, playing one of his nastiest characters, not long before he became Warner Brothers top heroic leading man.
Is there gonna be a spinoff for Seven from Picard?
Oh my yes please!?
There's an episode on Star Trek The Next Generation where The Federation is a bit more militarized. Their Guinan, once she sees Picard and how Tasha Yaar timeline was tampered on a conversation, she instantly knew that her timeline there was not meant to be. Just by talking to Picard. So what is this? It's a premonition?
I know that Guinan still believes in Worf's awesome poker skill.
I wish sack-fi was still like how it used to be there’s an episode of tos (the devil in the dark) spock says “captain we are being watched” Kirk says “intuition”? Spock says “no we are being watched” this always struck me as “beyond telepathy
10:02 Guinan has been the only El-Aurian featured in the Star Trek universe. There have been no other El-Aurian characters, that I know of, with the exception Dr. Tolian Soren, but he had gone completely insane from being torn from The Nexus.
(EDIT: I forgot about whatshisname form DS9)
This retcon would make El-Aurians just another species that lives a long, long time.
I don't like this retcon.....
Also, if the Nexus gave Guinan her extra senses, the Guinan from Picard S2 E4 would just have been like any other person, but when Picard repeated the words of her future self, she was able to hear her own voice from the future.
Picard S2 E4 was long before Guinan ever got caught in or torn from The Nexus.
There was one on DS9.
@@DavidNash1948 Yeah. I read the Memory Alpha page too late, but in my defense, that character was not recurring and in no way established prior to that episode or after that episode.
I thought she was an imp?
Doctor Soran was El-Aurian
@@JohnnyWednesday I made a mistake. The third El-Aurian in the canon is a character from DS9. But, still, Guinan's "retcon" makes no sense.
would of been great to see Guinen and Q exchanging lightning bolts from their hands on a couple of occasions and thats all im going to say
5:12 current Sci-Fi does not have time to "just go with it", current fans MUST have a reason for a character aging, as if it matters.
Also that feature would have come up in a future Trek Culture list eventually
Time travel? I agree with Admiral Janeway- just ignore it!!
_"The Vulcan science directorate has determined that time travel is impossible."_
@@prophetzarquon Is the before or after T’Pol experienced time travel 😏
I loved Whoopi Goldberg as the enigmatic. Wise Guinan. I don’t think she was in any episode in the final season and I missed her
With regards to Picard season 2, I still find it remarkable that that despite all the potential, especially with Q and Guinan, that they still managed to make an epic dumpster fire out of it. Talk about wasted potential...🙁
Callbacks in place of onscreen progression.
I'm sad to know the 2 Guinan actors never met. I feel if anything we should try to make it happen if it was such a big influence over Ito Aghayere's young life, and getting to play the role!
🖖
Ugh making Guinan the only Alorian with the ability to sense changes in time makes no sense because of the thing with the Q.
To me, the character of Guinan was unbearably smug. At least Q did not try to hide his disdain for everyone else.
Whoopi Goldberg paying it foward with being inspired by Nichelle Nichols.
the last part regarding the Nexus does not deepen the lore, it creates continuity problem - El-Aurians are meant to have this level of powers, as the Picard show also mentioned they had a war with the Q continuum, which is she's the only power with extra powers, that means that either she fought the entire war, which is way over-powered than we ever seen her, which does not stand with the fact she was afraid of the watcher, which uses technology, not super-powers, it also take away from the El-Aurian race, just building the story over guinan alone.
ion of the Trav
for now we can consider it a BAD beta content at best, it seems the Picard show writers are taking a different approach with the further introduction of the Travelers, which is better for the lore and future content.
We have Guinan and the Elurians word and ONLY their word for two things. 1. They aren't shape shifters. 2. They aren't time travelers.
But are they shape travelers?
@@GabePuratekuta We are told that the Elurians are a relatively normal if long lived race and a side novel says ONLY Guinan has this extra sensory time sens. Novel aside, how do we know this? What evidence do we have? What HAVE we seen? Well, we know Guinan can shape shift. We've seen it. We know in an er BEFORE the new actress she looked like Whoopi G. So... Maybe it's time travel, maybe it's shape shifting. BUT. We HAVE seen Q square off against her and actually be intimidated. But he wouldn't say anythng specific. Just "you don't know what this cr4ature is." type stuff. There are a lot of ways that could go. And there WAS a Q civil war. Do we know how that RALLY ended? Could there still be splinter factions out there that just don't overtly use their powers? Keeping time in a bottle? Sure. That's not Q level stuff at all.
@@selvahechicera4292 Why are you truing to answer a joke question?
@@GabePuratekuta Obviously it needed a punch line.
They are definitely time shifters.
If I could save time in a bottle
The first thing that I'd like to do
Is to save every day
'Til eternity passes away...
-- Jim Croce
Like the old saying goes. "Black don't crack". They should have just ignored it.
Video was awesome thank you Shawn! Have you heard about what’s going on at Paramount and do we know anything from the Star Trek front about what’s going to happen to Star Trek? Not sure if you guys are aware but Paramount just fired. It’s TV section. @TrekCulture thanks for everything you guys do!
Seems like Skydance productions will continue; I think it's the CBS+Viacom (including Paramount+) side of things, that's being shuttered.
My guess is that we might see another Trek movie before any new Trek shows...
Yeah, Picard series kinda ruined the mystery of Guinan with silly halfthought out explanations, and dampened the allure of her species.
I blame her entirely for Riker's latent synthahol addiction.
I think he actually used it on his aching back, when no one was looking.
253
People's nitpicking and their inability to suspend disbelief and "go with it" is what is ruining Star Trek and other franchises.
Leave the River Song references to the lovely Miss. Ellie Littlechild !
Hey
Yeah… they really shouldn't have said anything about her looking older. Especially since Whoopi hos mostly just put on a bit of weight.
Black don't crack.
TATATATATATATATATATATA.
THAT is how you sound, man.
Relax. *Slow fucking DOWN.* Your pace can give one a ĥeart attack.
He sounds normal to me.
Picard season’s 1&2 don’t count 😅
The later seasons weren't great either. It also had the worst ending to a Trek show until Discovery's.
Why are you putting woppie the racist on your channel.