The Plugin That Changed Runescape Forever
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Thanks to Manscaped for sponsoring today’s video! Get 20% Off + Free Shipping with promo code “J1MMY” at manscaped.com/...
↘️good guys only↘️
Today, we look at RuneLite's 'Ground Markers' AKA 'Tile Markers' plugin and the impact it's had on Old School Runescape's PvM culture.
Special Thanks To:
@AColdOneYT
@williesuede
Risuwu
Vuto
Isjustwunder
Song Used During A Cold One's Battle:
LISA: The Joyful OST - All American Badass (Noisemaker's Remix)
• LISA: The Joyful OST -...
🌐 INTERNET 🌐
👾Twitch: / j1mmy
☑️Twitter: / j1mmyrs
🔊Discord: / discord
🅿️Patreon: / j1mmy
🎧 MUSIC 🎧
distrokid.com/...
Series Playlists
▶️GARY F2P: • Runescape F2P
▶️BY RELEASE: • By Release
▶️DOUBLE '07: • Double '07
Join "J1mmy" clan chat in-game for good guy times!
-------
Play Runescape now, a free to play (F2P) online MMORPG: www.runescape.com
Play Oldschool Runescape now, a free to play (F2P) online MMORPG:
oldschool.runes...
#osrs #runescape #runelite
Thanks to Manscaped for sponsoring today’s video! Get 20% Off + Free Shipping with promo code “J1MMY” at manscaped.com/j1mmy -- hope you guys like this video I made. Literally. Please press "like" on the video so that I can feel something. Thank you in advance (please god oh god)
Yo jimmy theres something you might wanna censor in the pms at 7:47 lmao
Hey! Why the heck does the J1mmy clan keep kicking me? I'm not a troll I'm trying to learn and play the game. It's got to be a bunch of sweats running it not j1mmy. If I'm not pking or skilling the clan just kicks me I don't even type words! Need a quality check jimmy
Shaving is not hygienic, although shaving with a trimmer is probably the best way to do it
@@jiaan100 Manscaped wax kits and chemical solutions... Ultimate DIY laser hair removal... Forbidden evolution DNA modification hair extinction formula
@@Kununnboooo gay
tile
HE SAID IT! SOMEONE TAKE A SCREENSHOT!
i stood up and clapped when tile man stepped on the tile and said "it's tiling time" truly the casablanca of our generation
tile
tile
New idea
Hear me out, hear me out
Tileman…… no markers
If it has not been said (I feel like I've said it before on this video actually), FoldingIdeas' video "Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft" is an excellent video on this topic from the prespective of a different mmo. I will of course note that the core thesis of that video is about multiplayer content, as runescape features far more single player pvm content, and very little content you *have* to do in multiplayer, so it is not entirely transferable between the two games, but it does comment quite effectively about the use of third party tools and how they trivialize hard content, how that pushes the devs to make more challenging content, until it becomes simply unreachable for players who do not want to use those third party tools.
Cold One did excellent during that boss fight, but would they have been able to do that without first practicing for hours with the plugins? How long would it have taken for the first clear of the boss if plugins didn't exist? Would that slow down the difficulty increase the devs intentionally create, and would that be better for the average player wanting to engage with high end content? Plugins are an incredible tool, but we must be careful to not make them mandatory to enjoy the game.
More solo content that isn’t end game (and doesn’t require plugins) would be nice.
"tOo EaSy!! JaGeX hAS FoRsAkEn ThE HLC!!"
Varlamore lookin good
Exactly. There's alot more people not in end game than in the end game. If the game is only tailored for the the high levels, than there would be no fun being low to mid level and thus, no new players. A game without low to mid level players is a dead game
Why do we want more solo content in an MMO that is already 95% solo content
guys whats the background he uses at 16:00 ???? want it for wallpaper, so sick
World of Warcraft has gone through a very similar thing with weak auras, which is insanely more powerful than anything discussed here. Weak auras also affect PVP.
Im so proud of you guys for getting your PHD in runescape movement. i always knew you could do it :)
~rsn: xemenis
Great video as always, Jimbo
The problem with plugins like this is that it DOES affect how the devs handle things. As a result you have many players who rely on the plug-ins constantly complaining that stuff isn't hard enough while people who are playing an unmodified game and don't want to use plug-ins are struggling to play the vanilla experience. This sort of thing is unfortunately very common in MMOs nowadays.
It's almost equivalent to looking up the guide on how to beat a puzzle and then complaining that the puzzle was easy
@@NecromancyForKids It literally is that stupid, yes
Yeah I used to play everyday .. I got to the end game raids in August and I have less than 50 ToA expert raid completions and maybe touch the game once a week .. closer to once every 2 weeks.
Definitely made me quit the game and I’m sure others have quit for the same reason.
@@NecromancyForKids you nailed it
try doing a clue scroll with no runelite/guide
goodluck
This argument is going on in WoW right now too.
The devs assume everyone is going to use addons. DBM, BigWigs Boss Mods, etc.
As a result, they design fights so insanely difficult that you LITERALLY can't do them vanilla.
5 abilities that can wipe the entire raid group all happening at once and need pinpoint team coordination. You can't expect people to do that without addons.
A Cold One doing awakened Leviathan without plugins really drove the point home about how it feels like a different game. It was much more epic than all the videos I've seen of people doing leviathan. It was beautiful.
Did he learn it without plugins IE, did he learn the fight from beginning to end, without every using the plugin once. Because the route seemed very similar to the person with the plugins which only probably came up from someone "perfecting' the fight and putting the points in the plugin, yes?
He actually looked like he was dodging things just in time
@@Salsmachev I guess it's just the perception, since we were shown the fight first with plugins, then someone doing it without
@@Dkgow But the perception is the whole point. One feels like a mechanical sequence of events, the other feels like an immersive, exciting event.
For real. i 'got' Jim's point but then that video played and all of a sudden I actually understood what he meant. Made it hit way harder.
Wills blank floor take is top tier. The floors in the game are built to be tile marked now.
With the whisperer, part of the boss is looking for those roots coming out of the floor, I think the floor is probably intentionally bare to make it most obvious when to move. I agree, it could be a bit more interesting, but it's difficult if it covers up an attack that you have to react to within a few ticks.
I'm always running around looking for an NPC in the world and they're hidden until they move, everything blends in to the background so easily! I imagine the attacking roots would blend in a bit too much if the floor was covered in patterned decoration. Would like to see the suggestion implemented for other places though!
that transition into cold one tearing leviathan a new one with no plugins was the hardest shit i've seen in a while
Hell yea
That shit SLAPPED
Yeah man I love sbemails
@@Rusty_Alex Slapped your ass?
Literally rewound it to rewatch that lol
Will brings up a great point about Jagex’s floors. I think it would be cool to see high level bosses designed around safe tiles that Jagex had *already* marked for you with interesting floor designs. It would be the best of both worlds.
Jagex does disco floors for a lot of new content with this in mind, they’re slowly learning
A trend I've noticed is that the texture gradients of the ground pretty clearly delineate tiles in the overworld where you would want them to be smooth instead, and then in boss encounters the floor is monochromatic where you would want it to have texture gradients making it easier to see the tiles... Facepalm
thats literally a final fantasy 14 thing and it works great. the first thing you look at when learning a new boss is the floor patterns compared to where the boss places AOE's. there are always fine lines that cleanly split safe spots from danger spots.
Jamflegx rigs the game in favour of Yorkshiremen
usually its the players learning these methods though. ex: olm
27:20 Wills point is actually making a lot of sense, no normal player would be able to tell the difference in tiles, legit looks like MS paint bucket was used on half the floors in some places
That was exactly my thought when I started learning The Whisperer, the whole floor is the same colour how can I see where I'm gonna walk to without ground markers
I feel like the best example is the seren fight in sote, im like 90% sure its not black tiles they just literally turned off the rendering for the skybox and ground tiles, and that boss room feels disgusting to walk around and look at
Yep, other MMOs design their arenas with the important parts having some way to discern them, like a line on the ground showing the safe distance.
@@Fluid1227 What does it look like? I'm not seeing anything from an initial search.
@@alexanderbowers5225 google fragment of seren fight.
He made so much sense on Woox inferno accomplishment vs Rendi level 3 firecape. Both equally impressive but Woox's achievement feels more organic
It always seemed like this to me and games speedrunning especially highlights this. One is beating the game with given rules, another is breaking the game by either bending the rules or negating them. I've always preferred the latter, but can recognize the achievement in both.
it wasn't, though. it just looks that way to us on the outside, he said it himself. woox thinks like this already, but as outsiders we dont so it looks more organic. cold ones clear on levi used the redeye jedi tiles for boulder placement. so similar to woox, he just had the correct squares memorized. is that any different from having them visually on the ground? maybe im missing the plot here but i see no difference, i see both woox and cold one clear those fights and they look the same to me, i recognize every tile they're standing on and why and it doesnt change a single thing for my perception of what they're doing, because mechanically its identical. maybe i cant see past my own experience with the content.
@@CoffeeKitty. I get your point but I don't think it matters whether Woox & others at his level of gaming skill see the game as reality breaking fractals or concurrent computational operations or just as what is presented visually, since on the surface level they are still playing the game with its known rules. In other words they're mastering it by being exceptionally good at it. In comparison someone like Rendi, as incredibly skilled as they are too, struggles greatly with execution and gets nervous (his own words) so he seeks to bend the rules as much as possible in his favor.
@@CoffeeKitty. Yeah but woox is on a different level. I meant more as it was something new, a challenge that hadn’t been accomplished trying to make new strategies. Lvl 3 jad also had to do that but on the expense of abusing mechanics. Both are impressive but woox’s felt more like a challenge against the monster and rendi’s more against algorithm imo. Both impressive nonetheless
Everyone with a fire cape was trying to do the Inferno. Only Rendi and one other dude cared about doing lvl 3 fire cape. Woox's was on a bigger scale because he championed original content first. Rendi did the most impressive remix, but it wasn't a widespread race...
That A Cold One clip was beautiful, and it drove your point home so impactfully. Props to him for the skill at the boss, and to you for your skill at demonstrating your thoughts so eloquently.
I was hoping someone said it! I actually enjoyed watching that clip.
*” given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game,”*
_-Soren Johnson & Sid Meier._
I was thinking about this the whole time. Water finds a crack
Literally everyone seems to ignore the context of that article and it drives me mental. When he says "players will optimize the fun out of things", it's not meant as a way for inbredditors to yell at anyone with pattern recognition. It's telling developers that when players resort to exploits, than there is a design problem. When players use things like true tile or ground markers, it's not because "they're optimizing fun out of a game" (even though his article literally starts with a quote that "fun" is a process and not a goal as every game is subject to optimization), but rather because the game has some poorly made element that limits the player. When you literally develop the Inferno around the idea of prayer flicking (something that is frankly an exploit), can you really blame players for using a plugin when nothing in the game even suggests that? When you make floors that is a single, flat color from corner to corner, can you blame players for using a plugin? When your game requires movement and your tick rate is 600ms, literally unplayable in any other game, can you blame players for using a plugin?
@@TheTundraTerror what the fucking neckbeard? Huh?
If you need plug-ins to play that's cool, just feel free not to write a term paper of cope next time. "I need my hand held," would suffice.
@@TheTundraTerror Yes, you can blame them. These plugins would be considered cheats in any other game. It's just a skill issue.
@@TheTundraTerror I'm not sure what your point is... you're right in that it is a design problem not a player problem.
Do you ever wonder what it would be like to be able to go back in time with your current day modern Runescape knowledge and own the kids playing back in 2007?
I'd be an rs God
I would be pretty sad. My acc was raised in sandcrabs, mm2 tunnels, and NMZ. It was also raised on bonds without much money made. Rs without bonds sounds unplayable, and I'd miss my training methods
i’d still be sitting in varrock saying “gf for dragon skirt?”
You'd be accused of being a hacker in two hours minimum XD
Yeh I'd be able to level so fast. I could 2 tick teak trees on fossil Island, spam birdhouses, afk in nmz, farm the forestry events, drift net fish, get good at hallowed sepulchre, farm herbiboar, wintertodt and gotr. Now I know these are the most efficient levelling methods, I'd level so fast in 2007
The feeling of necessity is 100% true
As someone who does most of his playing on mobile and gets to go on the PC not as much as he would like, it feels like I have to wait until I get to use runelite to do so much of the content in this game
10000% I've had to do this multiple times and help my friends with this idea. Especially since some of them want to AFK at work and wanted help with higher level stuff
True true true true true.
I play on both and I avoid my favorite content on mobile. It would be WAY too hard. Not just because of plug-ins, though. My little thumbs and my little phone aren't as precise as a mouse.
I play ironman, I don't use tile markers or true tile.
I have done quest cape, minus dt2 at the moment. Also done corrupted gauntlet, zulrah, vorkath, hallowed sepulchre. I've done grotesque guardians on my non iron, don't have the key yet on my iron.
These plugins aren't required.
Being anxious about facing off with zulrah, or vorkath, or even Jad does not make you bad. It makes you normal.
Learning how to chill out, and just do the mechanics so you survive is a skill to be learned.
The OSRS community has this weird perspective of the game being so easy. It's not.
Jad is hard. Jad is easy for me because I've learned the skills to be comfortable while doing it.
Even to this day people struggle with Jad. They struggle with Jad because they have only just started their journey. I started my journey a long time ago.
Now I don't play on mobile. But the point I'm making is, you do not need runelite.
Even if you get runelite, you don't need to use tile marker, or true tile or whatever. I don't and I'm getting along just fine, even with the restrictions of an ironman account.
The game is very playable without these plugins.
Now, my advice for people who are struggling with bossing or are anxious about doing content that they are actually likely to die in.
The golden rules of bossing is actually quite simple.
1-Chill out.
Don't panic.
Bossing is very much about prediction and reacting. It's a mix, sometimes more predicting, sometimes more reacting.
The most important thing is chilling out and doing golden rule 2.
2-Do the mechanic to survive.
Bosses have mechanics. Take jad for example.
Use correct overhead prayer or take massive damage.
Don't let the jad healers heal Jad to full, or else they'll respawn later, when Jad reaches 50% health a second time.
These are Jad's mechanics.
So what do you need to do to survive?
The most important thing, is ALWAYS avoid the massive damage.
So, never be in Jad's melee range. If you are outside of his melee range, he will never use melee. So now you only need to think about his ranged attack and magic attack.
Always be watching out for the telegraphs that tell you which attack Jad is using next. You can use audio or visual ques, they both work, I recommend audio. See guides for full details. When the que happens, use the correct prayer.
3-Do things when you have time.
This sounds very obvious. But like back to Jad example.
Let's say you need to eat, swap prayer, move, and tag healers. Doing all of that, in a single Jad attack is very hard, even for me. So, slow down.
Take things 1 step at a time.
For the Jad fight, the priority list is this...
Do the correct prayer.
Then Eat.
Then move.
Then tag healer.
At any given moment, if it's time to swap your prayer. Do that first, immediately.
At any given moment, if you don't need to respond to a mechanic and avoid massive damage, then eat if needed.
At any given moment, if you don't need to respond to a mechanic. And you don't need to eat. Then move for whatever reason you think you need to move for.
At any given moment, if you don't need to respond a mechanic. And you don't need to eat. And you don't need to move. Then start attacking the healer.
But here's the catch. Like I said earlier, don't try to do EVERYTHING at the same time. There's a very fine line between knowing what to do and doing it very quickly, and trying to do everything at the same time. When you try to do everything at same time, it's called panicking. See golden rule number 1.
For example in the Jad fight, you're like an anxious child learning how to swing a sword. Guess what, you have time. You can absolutely do exactly 1 thing in between every Jad attack.
Pray against Jad.
Start attacking Jad.
Pray against Jad.
Oh healers spawned.
Pray against Jad.
Start attacking the closest healer.
Pray against Jad.
Move so I can attack the next healer.
Pray against Jad.
Start attacking the next healer.
This is part of the reason why Jad is so easy for some people while very difficult for others. I can be very comfortable doing 2 or 3 things in between every Jad attack. But I also learned how to be comfortable while doing those things.
And to be clear, I specified the priority list above is for Jad because sometimes moving is the thing you do to avoid massive damage. Sometimes it's using a specific spell. There are different mechanics, and the priority list changes for each boss.
But the top of the priority list is always "do the thing to avoid massive damage"
The second top is always "eat/drink if needed"
Now the final last point. There is a concept you'll learn about at some point.
And that's the idea that you don't always need to be at full health.
If the enemy's max hit is 30, you can sit at 35 health.
If you take 30 damage, you are at 5 health.
And then you are like "oh, dam." And tick eat a monkfish and a karambwan. 16HP + 18HP healing, totals to 34 healing. 34 healing + 5 HP, you are at 39 health. You are fine.
But, you can totally ease yourself into this playstyle. You can afford to be a little extra safe, and as you get more comfortable with PVM, you'll find that oh yea I'm fine. I can eat later.
The point I'm making is, yes this exists. It is the optimal thing to do, because eating means you are not attacking, which means less DPS.
But don't worry about it, it's better to get comfortable doing everything else I said earlier and then start doing this, rather than try to do this, mess up, panic and die. Like I was saying with Jad, just take it slow, get comfortable with mechanics and tech, and then improve.
To Will's point, I would love to see the devs embrace tile markers into the graphical design of PvM encounters. Having important tiles clearly out with dirt and rocks and ferns instead of a technicolor grid would go a long way.
Its rough tho cuz its ple meta players that are discovering these tile markers, not the devs. the players prove again and again that they can find way to break bosses they werent meant to be broken so easily. My point is if they implement this, the players will find a better one anyways and now we got fern and rocks on the side.
Honestly, what I'd like to see is something like how other MMOs handle their markers. They limit them to a specific number, and I think that could go a long way.
@@kainserna3517okay, but why not after a while of players doing this on new content you put down like a new texture map based on a heating player movement. Like where the tiles are worn more than the others, because that’s where players spend more time.
Yeah and its giving a mouse a cookie until one day the game is dead because "its too easy" or "its not fun because it plays itself."
*Remember when people played games for the fun of playing the game?* Sure sure. Tell me you're having fun now. And I'll keep my I told you so until the rollout of videos complaining about problems the community created by min maxing the fun out of everything. Its so predictable too.
Yeah I’ve been begging for someone to make this a plugin forever now. I try to only use tile markers while learning content then remove them later, but some things are near impossible without it. Would love to be able to place rubble or something on a tile instead.
I unironically figured out the internal game tick back in the early days of runescape while firemaking. I noticed if you queued up the next logs and clicked at the right time, there was little to no delay between logs. Or maybe I'm going crazy and what I was doing wasn't actually what game tick is about.
nope, you got it! firemaking is a 4 tick cycle, except the first time you light a log there's a 1tick animation delay as you visually attempt to strike a flint. if you start the next log exactly 4 ticks after the previous one, you skip that animation and do it slightly faster :)
One of the worst things that can happen to an MMO is when the developers listen to the most hardcore, skilled players when they say "The game is too easy, we need more hard content." Making hard content for an MMO is fine, but putting too much focus on 1% of the playerbase's wishes, when the reality is that 99% of the players will never see that content, is a terrible decision for any game that depends on a huge amount of active players.
Imagine an OSRS without CAs
OSRS has this problem on seemingly all fronts in the past couple years. You get people not wanting general skill xp rates to go up even a small amount per hour because of this great method that only the sweaty people do for hours on end (tick manipulation/ high intensity methods in general). PVM you have people saying that they haven't gotten anything truly complex, yet not realizing the majority of players are not doing any of the "Truly" high end bosses that have been released. PVP/ PKing has had this problem for years where Jagex really on listens to a handful of players, or just the predators in the pking side of things. Hell it even has affected Quests IMO where almost all these bigger master or grandmaster quests have pretty difficult final boss fights for the average/casual players. Seemingly only because the most vocal part of the community is saying xyz thing is not hard enough.
Absolutely, then it’s just a race to the bottom making stupidly hard combat in a game that was never designed for hard combat. GWD style pvm is as hard as RS should have ever gotten.
Welcome to feature creep. The only way to stop it is to ban addons early and often. Can't put the toothpaste back into the tube!
I don't know man, casual-pandering seems to destroy games faster. Too often games end up ruined when developers alienate their dedicated player just for the sake of attracting new players. In the end, the dedicated players leave, and the new ones were never committed in the first place, game becomes dead. Also, difficult content is a compass, it gives intermediate players something to strive for - without a good endgame, there is no reason to stick around.
There is for sure a balance here, but not giving the most dedicated players content is a huge mistake, unless you actually want to water down the game and lose the niche, because let's be real here - runescape is fairly niche. Lose that identity, and the game becomes indistinguishable from the mass of games out there.
Vorkath's fire barrage was the first time I learned the hard way that your character is not where he appears to be when moving lol. The true tile indicator makes it 10 times easier, but I have to admit that I started using it everywhere ever since and it definitely does kill the immersion to some degree
Same. I kept getting rocked by vorkaths fireballs and for the life of me couldn't understand why. Then I finally saw a video explaining it, true tile indicator Saves lives.
same here lmao, the day I learned you aren't actually where your character is
I don't think I could play the game without true tile.
Well, I could, but it would be way harder.
A Cold One’s clip gave me that same feeling I used to get watching Woox videos. You’re right, clicking marked tiles cannot compare
Coming from speedrunning it's a strange topic to me. Anything like this would be immediately disallowed and considered straight up cheating in speedrunning (like wider speedrunning, not OSRS speedrunning). It's still all about trying to "visualise the tiles" as you put it, in "normal" speedruns too, but we all do it "Woox style".
I'm not saying plugins are cheating, hell I've used them myself when playing this and other MMOs, it's just interesting how it's a similar discipline of sweaty nerds taking videos games way too seriously but with very different social norms on what's allowed and such.
As someone who stopped playing Runescape awhile back and moved to FFXIV, this reminds me a lot of the discourse that went on a few months back in the FFXIV community when the newest hardest raids in the game were beaten with plugins that showed players more information than the game normally would allow. Things like showing where normally unmarked AOE effects would be, or whether you were facing a certain direction (FFXIV has some mechanics that are based on where your character is facing and if they are looking at certain things) which I would consider that games equivalent of ground markers in OSRS.
In FFXIV, the general consensus among the player base was that tools like that were cheating because the game already gives you a lot of visual information to communicate to the player what is happening. The ground texture of boss arenas often has some kind of pattern to it that you can use as reference for where to stand or where certain effects are happening. For example in The Omega Protocol raid, the floor texture is a series of concentric circles, meaning you can use it as a quick reference for how far you are from the center or the edge, so you say "stand on the 3rd ring from the edge of the map" to do a mechanic. I think that Runescape could use this strategy to great effect, by having more detailed floor patterns players could use those as reference for where to stand and what to do.
Now FFXIV does have 8 built in ground markers, but these are much more limited. You have 8 shared between the entire team, and you can't have any more. These are often just used as basic markers of N/S/E/W because in most fights, that's all you really need, and the floor pattern alone is enough to tell where you are and if you are positioned correctly.
Obviously OSRS is a very different game that functions differently from FFXIV, but as someone who has put thousands of hours into both games, I find it interesting to see how both games/communities approach the same thing.
Edit: For any RS players unfamiliar with FFXIV raids, just look up any video of a Savage or Ultimate raid (savage is mid-high difficulty fights, ultimate are the hardest fights) and think about what it would be like if RS bosses by default, without plugins, gave you that much clear information about what was happening.
When I played 14 the amount of groups I just left bc one or more people were using cactbot was insane. The skill level in that game is so low it's crazy
@@RealSkaiOW It depends a lot on the team/player. I've personally seen less reliance on cactbot in my raid teams in the past few years. If you are in VC with a good leader/shot caller then you don't really need it. The big issues people have with plugins now are the ones for extra aoe markers and zoom hacks (not to mention the recent controversy over botting programs that are able to flawlessly execute damage rotations). Everyone in the teams I play with frowns upon those kinds of plugins, and I personally rarely raid with anything beyond a basic DPS meter these days.
Super similar in Guild Wars 2. The end game challenge raids and strikes are incredibly hard, and raid groups have a limited number of marker tiles they can place on the ground and it just feels… better. Cooler.
When I started playing 14 I realized what a crush DBM was in WoW. Just do as the game says instead of learning mechanics.
@@robertmahiques6218Honestly this Is how I feel.
As someone who has been playing RS on and off since 2006, I have never really gotten into PVM content because I get so anxious about it. When Trailblazer League came around, I remember I chose the elf lands because I wanted to learn how to do Zulrah, and tile markers were absolutely invaluable to learning, along with a plugin to learn the rotations. Tile markers were the help that I needed to help me feel confident enough that I could fight something other than a hill giant and not be scared I was going to die
They are a good tool for the new player learning content and understanding how movement works in relation to a boss' mechanics. I think one of the bullet points of the argument was more about that truly high level players (gnomonkey, tasty, woox, boaty, cold one, etc.) are all good enough to do this content without all these plugins, yet some of them continue to use them and bemoan that Jagex doesn't put out "hard enough" content, all while their screen has zillions of tiles marked and things that hold their hand for them to tell them exactly how a fight goes down.
People complaining about bosses not being hard enough is like leaving a trail of breadcrumbs to find your way back through a maze after being to the centre then claiming it was easy as you exit. J1mmy top tier content as always and im with you on this one, placing ground markers at every available logical spot is basically playing another version of the game and it looks awful.
Seems like a mod like this removes some of the skill ceiling to content. Not sure why developers consistently let the players optimize the fun out of their game.
“You get to pick your favorite direction to go, you have 8 to choose from. Pick your favorite one, or the one that doesn’t get you killed” I choose the former a bit too often as opposed to the latter
I've felt this way about Ground Markers and most plugins for a long time and nobody I commonly game with sees it like I do. I miss being able to see the bosses, the environments, etc. I am guilty of using the markers myself, but I try to minimize them as much as possible so I can remember this game isn't just ticks and squares. Great video!
They will soon become required, the harder they make newer content the more and more people will start using them kinda like WoW its almost required to use some addons
WoW has had this problem with raiding content for years and years. And it only gets worse with time. WoW retail absolutely requires tons of addons to properly operate the game, and RS is gonna go the same way. Until lots of players stop playing because "its not fun anymore for some reason."
@@Moe_Posting_Chad This to me is why the classic content was such a breath of fresh air. I've been having a blast with it, and I recently tried logging in to one of my characters on retail, and the interface was so overwhelming that I almost immediately logged off again. Before you even get to any content you're absolutely bombarded with UI elements in a way that you just weren't 10-15 years ago unless you drowned yourself in addons. It's just not fun to me.
World of Warcraft has this same problem where you have a weakaura pack that will tell you when every mechanic is coming. If you have a guild turn those off, there is almost no way they could clear the content without relearning the fight and the devs have said that they develop new mechanics around the idea that players will be using a weakaura to tell them when a mechanic is happening.
Maybe there is no solution to this and MMO as a gameplay style is still halfway baking in the oven. One day, the full dive VR haptic feedback mmo will come. And it will only be a 50/50 chance of it being a Saw murder game?
The _A Cold One_ bit is absolute fire, mate. Great music choice, editing, setup, everything. Smashed it!
I've been listening to this track a ton since seeing this the other day.
I legit gasped and just sat staring as A Cold One killed the Leviathan, that shit was actually crazy, huge respect to him and you're right, it felt like RuneScape again. It felt like he was fighting the boss.
As a casual player, a lot of the stuff that is the 'end game content' is forever out of my reach, even with things like Tile Markers and True Tile and metronomes and the wiki and everything, so I definitely always feel a little... put off when people want more difficult and harder content forever and always, nothing is the limit, especially when it comes to games that have been around for 20 years and more. When does it reach a point that something is so difficult that it's 'enough'? When a human is no longer capable of it?
How did he get the shots where the whole world is visible like at 4:55?
I wanna know too, looks so cool from that perspective
@@squidmanfedsfeds5301its a website shows free range osrs
Honestly how much OS is dependent on Runelite and 3rd party stuff is one of the biggest reasons I haven't touched it in years.
ngl that Leviathan kc without plugins is probably the coolest pvm encounter I've seen :)
This is probably the best runescape video ever created no lie. This explains both sides of the game perfectly and a 5 year old could probably understand how runescape works mechanically. Absolutely phenomenal job in this one.
That intro cinematic is worth a like by itself. Can't wait to watch the rest of the video!
I think FF14 learned from WoW's plugins by making 100% sure EVERY boss has a super clear floor to read. Folks use in-game markers but you can only place a few. I love it. No plugins needed! And positioning is just as important in FF14 as it is in OSRS.
Great video and choice of topic. I fall nearest to B0aty here. True tile/destination tile is great, but it takes away from my sense of immersion when it looks like my character is running around on an Excel spreadsheet.
It's one of those issues where I think plugins make this game potentially more accessible, but you lose something at the same time. Now that these plugins are allowed, Jagex now has to take that into account when designing new content, potentially making it less accessible to those who don't use them. You make great point about A Cold One and Woox's skill even without these plugins. I think a way to build from here could be doing something like Blizzards Mythic Dungeon International, which could challenge some of the best players in completing high end content on vanilla clients.
i was honestly kinda late to the plugin party cuz i was kinda against it , now i use plugins and i actually am still against it but simply cant go without it cuz it litterly makes the game 10x easier.....as example think about clue scrolls lol you litterly dont have to do anything anyore
@@owningkoning Does it have to be 10x easier?
Majority of OSRS content is not that difficult from purely mechanical viewpoint
@@owningkoning I don't think clue scrolls is a good example.
There's a difference between making pvm easier vs integrating the OSRS wiki directly into your runelite client.
A clue scroll plugin is just integrating the OSRS wiki into your runelite client, and let's be realistic. Clue scrolls would be completely dead content if you had to actually solve the puzzle yourself.
It's an interesting but very niche activity - A puzzle can take any wheres from 5 minutes to several hours depending on the particular puzzle type and what you happen to remember about the game.
The same applies to quest guides with needing a random assortment of stuff and having to bank several times if you didn't look at a guide. Granted you can just look at items required but then wing the actual quest itself if you wanted to.
But things are different when it comes to the pvm plugins. First off the plugins aren't necessary. Second, pvm isn't niche content, and third, some of these plugins give unique advantages that you wouldn't have in any way possible. Namely true tile.
1 thing I don't like about the clue scroll plugin is how it can literally play a part of the game for you. Like the content can be trivialized with the osrs wiki as well, so I don't view it in the same light as pvm plugins. But the clue scroll plugin can take it a step farther than the wiki.
But what is this light I'm talking about for pvm plugins?
It's the idea of having these marked tiles, and highlighting the boss' hitbox and such, and having everything in real time. This is all information not normally possible to have in real life.
The clue scroll plugin does similar things but it's not trivializing things much more than the wiki.
But the wiki can't trivialize pvm content in the same was that the plugins can trivialize.
@@tappajaav Yes and no. The community has this weird perspective that the game is not skillful. Which is wrong. Plenty of people find Jad difficult still. Plenty people find him easy. Jad is easy because you learned the skills to kill him comfortably. The people that struggle with him haven't learned those skills. It's that simple. Plenty of content in this game is actually pretty difficult and a lot of people don't recognize the fact that they learned skills which enable to them to do that content. And that's an accomplishment.
I did a good amount of rs3 pvm for a while and we have broadly the same mechanics (at least, wrt movements and ticks) with no plugin support - there’s a built in way to see target tiles and that’s about it. And especially in the harder bosses there you really start to feel like the tick system really holds the game back, really makes the game so much more unfair than it could be (araxxi web I’m looking at you). If you want to beat these bosses you HAVE to build your own wooxvision and the imprecision of your knowledge about exactly where your character is or will path to or exactly when your attack will come out makes it so much more frustrating when you get it wrong. It makes the bosses and the arenas and the attack animations so much less important and instead it’s “ok how do these telegraphs project onto this shitty engine?” I honestly wish rs would find a way to move past the tick and grid systems.
Well put, Rax was the last boss I had fun with in RS3 and even then I NEVER went for enrage chains above 100%. Thankfully I played on local servers so the ticks on webs weren't as awful as I know they can be with even a smidge of lag. What annoyed me most with the tickrate was the last phase's chaser projectile needing you to babysit it and flick prayers at the same time and the occasional fuckery with the suicide spiders.
If RS is ever going to bring me back, it needs to up its game with the tickrate and stop pandering to modders. Until then, I'm content with XIV as my MMO of choice.
i completely agree, but in a game that’s 20+ years old where literally every single thing is built and functions on the .6s tick system, changing that would most likely require you to rebuild the entire game from the ground up. it sucks because, while unique, such slow ticks definitely hold the game back in a lot of ways
LOVED THIS ONE JIM!
- nailed the video editing
- kept the topic on point
- made it HILARIOUS!
Solid job, your work is greatly appreciated and we all love you!
That's a great point from itswill, maybe the boss room floors need an overhaul, especailly that one he showed lol. It really is just a blank canvas. And it doesn't have to be the exact tile marks, but at least some kind of repeatable reference or something that fits in with the lore like decorative floor tiles or something. Same thing with like Olm and the quadrants, maybe some kind of effect that illuminates the exact portion of the room he's looking at.
Cold One going dirt nasty on awakened leviathan was cool as hell.
Ah yes, I'm glad you asked my opinion on this matter. *Ahem*
I play exclusively Free-To-Play. I like training melee stats on Hill Giants, Woodcutting on the yews by the GE, and flipping items with 2GP margins with my 3 slots while doing it. I don't do it on World 301, though. I avoid other players like the plague and act like OSRS is a single-player game. The only F2P quest I haven't completed is Shield of Arrav, because screw social interaction, am I right?
I fully agree with the point you put across in this video as I understand it. The plugins are great, but they're exegetic. It's just really impressive when someone plays the game "the way it was meant to be played" and just has that innate understanding of it.
People want the appearance, the aesthetic of mastery. But they don't want to do the work to actually master the activity.
@@Moe_Posting_Chad You ever try to kill Olm in a duo iron raid without tile markers, moe posting chad?
Have you put in the work to "master the activities," moe posting chad?
@@Tikky503 I played this game when I was like seven years old. I am now a grown man and *I don't play a game to recapture the glory days.*
@@Moe_Posting_Chad ... so you peaked in second grade?
@@hi-i-am-atan No. I played RuneScape in second grade. It was fun. I moved on whenever I did. And now as a man I don't go back to revisit the loading screen simulator. *I value my time. So I seek out new experiences* and refine the skills I've learned. Do you know how liberating it is to draw something from your imagination? You know how flattering it is when your friends see your art hanging up and tell you how its the sickest thing!
*You don't get that from playing idle games.*
I personally would love Jagex to go step ahead and incorporate these markes as graphical design of the game.
No I don't mean Jagex should add Tile markers to the base game, but how about changing the floors?
Do a subtle markers, like dirt, puddles, grass around the square, stepping stones, cracked tiles, whatever the hell you can think of.
All the necessary tiles would be "marked" and the game won't have to look like christmas tree.
Sure, one could say it's taking out the "finding it out" part of the game, but let's be fuckin' honest.
It's just few people who have the brain capacity to find all those tiles, the rest of ya'll (me included in some cases) just find it on UA-cam and copy it.
I'm playing Runescape since god damn 2008, and there's been only one boss I did with copied tile markers and that's Zulrah. I hate myself for it, because I don't enjoy that boss what so ever nowdays.
Grotesque Guardians were my first ORSR bosses I tried right after Zulrah, but without any tiles or tutorials.
Sure you'll die couple of times, but once you'll get your strategy right so you can get multiple kills per run?
THEN I check tutorials, to see how much "off" I was from the sweaty no tick waste efficient runs :^)
Most of the new bosses, me and my friend we just blindly go into them and compete who'll get 'em first.
You can only imagine, it can sometimes take AGES to get one boss without a single tutorial/help, right now we've been stuck on Nex, Nightmare and I think there's Raids 3 that no one completed yet, but I can't remember, since it's been couple of months we played for the last time.
It's definetely more fun, to play without any tilemarkers and make the game this gridhell of colorful squares.
I for sure endorse any content that's just BOUND to have these tiles visible, I for sure don't mind if someone uses them or not, but I just won't watch any video/stream if there's more then like 2 suqares marked...
If you've never beaten any boss and you have a friend that's on the same knowledge level about that boss as you are?
Do try the "who's gon' kill it first" without any help.
I'd love to see that kind of video, but from what I briefly searched, there's not a single one.
The new evolution of RS is upon us!
We went from childern of wonder. To cycle nerds. Now, its time to bring imagination and knowledge full circle!
jagex would probably learn a lot about designing a boss arena if they looked at basically any modern ffxiv boss arena
It's an interesting tale to be sure, I think there are some parallels to WoW and how the game changed once raid and build guides became pretty much instantly available as soon as each patch dropped, if not a week before.
watching Woox play raw runescape reminds me of the feeling of awe and wonder of back in the day of raw runescape times seeing Zezima in game, knowing how he is #1 leader of xp on the leaderboards, when 99s were a rarity. Videos of people like Elvemage PKing in the wild. Witnessing pioneers of the game play, sparked a particular imagination of adventure that young me could find in a silly little video game on a screen. I loved it, I didn't care if it was "just a game", I was enjoying myself taking on the 'risk' that was the unknown challenges the game had to offer in its content, and challenge that players posed in competition to one another. Being a part of that was simply just fun
Great video J1mmy. I think you could easily fluff this story more. For example, if we did remove tile markers, what would happen?
Firstly, a demand for cheats. Streamers would pay extra (like they do for FPS games) for cheats that easily integrate with OBS. Jagex would open up another front vs cheaters.
Most people would rightly complain that the ground textures need updating, and this would create more work for an already frail development studio.
How would the majority of top PVM'ers perform without their tile markers?
Also, with the new TD bosses, I experienced content creators start these fights with zero tile markers and work through it. Although the tile markers are blatant crouches (it's a good analogy, because as an old timer, my vision and reactions aren't what they used to be) people still had to think through the mechanics and then place the tiles, and what tiles they placed and for what reason was personal at release.
Finally, we tie the previous point of fresh experience to the modern day "google a guide" culture of gaming.
I understand why you kept this 30 minutes but I could have easily heard more. Great video, bravo.
24:45 is a masterpiece of destroying someone's point.
will's comedic breakdown was the perfect end to the video. legend
A Cold One still had the Ping Graph plugin enabled (37ms) in the top right corner. Task failed.
Just kiddin' :P
Also, how you gonna hate on Tile Markers? One of your best friends, and Gauntlet-Drill-Seargent is literally a Tile-man. You saying you Won't watch his videos because of the marked Tiles?!
Also Just Kiddin' :P
I find it a bit interesting how different bossing on the two versions of the Runescape has become because of this. In Old school you see these tile markers everywhere telling you or remembering you where to stand and go, meanwhile in RS3 videos I don't think I've ever seen one. But that might be because of the reason also explained at 27:16
Bossing is less about standing in specific places and more about using your abilities to avoid or mitigate damage. Mechanics involving avoid the tile are also much clearer and more choreographed. Not perfect, but much better. Look at a Kepherac HM run and you'll see what I mean
Rs3 players literally want tile markers. There’s tons of high level players advocating for it. Osrs just has it cause of RL. The difference is the client.
(it’s actually a way bigger issue in rs3 since the ground doesn’t clearly indicate where tiles end and begin)
My problem is the average player will not know how to fight these bosses without having to use plugins. Also in order to learn to do them consistently as well without any outside help is nearly impossible as well. The amount of money you need just for the leviathan thing is crazy. There's a 0% my dad for example who used to play the game would ever be able to even understand what tick manipulation is, and PiD are. As well as being able to gear swap with an insane amount of microclicks while prayer switching and flicking. Its just too much to expect one player to be able to handle.
I played these fights before and some of them you have no indication on what you are actually supposed to be doing in the boss fight, or how to do the correct thing.
I'd also like to add everyone I know who doesn't really like the tile thing almost all looked up guides to play through quests at some point.
J1mmy guiding the noobs one video at a time, champ.
I think it's entirely valid to not want to watch/play the game with tile markers. It's not about 3rd party plugins being "bad" for the game, but about the game having mechanics that it doesn't natively offer the (borderline) necessary tools for players to overcome. Personally, I can appreciate seeing people take on challenging bosses with crazy 200apm requirements (as long as I can still understand wtf is going on), but I'll usually get more enjoyment from something that's a bit more leisurely (but still engaging) myself.
Awakened bosses? Yeah, they're tough. Sure, it's possible to do them without plugins. Probably not for me though. I think I could do them WITH plugins... but I don't want to have to rely on them to hard carry me through the game, so that content pretty much just isn't for me - and that's fine! It's more the discrepancy between the number of people who can do it with VS without 3rd party tools that bothers me. Tile markers are to OSRS what WeakAuras is to WoW; it's basically an arms race between the game devs and the plugin devs. "Unfortunately mandatory".
I'd very much love to see the team come up with challenging content where plugins didn't a) completely trivialize it, or b) feel necessary to reasonably complete/comfortably grind it - if that's even possible at this point. Something to make me think on my feet rather than learning a specific pattern of tiles/clicks to loop through for however long (here's hoping for the Colosseum).
The main reason I quit OSRS was because of how difficult high level combat got. I didn't want to learn grid patterns and timing especially when a single mistake ended the whole attempt. It was costly in time and gp to learn.
Yah, for me it was the constant need to use the wiki and every player made resource out there. A game shouldn't require the need of a wiki to enjoy the experience, because most new players will not know what to do when first joining and just quit outright.
Sorry if this comment was unwanted.
I'm kind of an outsider here in that OSRS is a game I play (poorly, mind you) in between another MMO, which is Final Fantasy XIV, which... has a completely different philosophy about raiding, that makes this entire conversation really bizarre! I'd be very interested to see what Jim makes of raiding in FFXIV, where mechanics are much more specific and telegraphed, floor design REALLY matters, and ground markers are literal in-game features.
I feel like you can't escape that the game is a grid. To say that people who see the grid are not seeing the game seems silly. But at the same time, I wouldn't want OSRS going the way of World of Warcraft, where plugins became so central to the game that the game designers ended up in an arms race with the plugin developers. I feel like XIV hits a sweet spot, or at least showcases an alternative; XIV's solution is to make the game mechanics very visible, and to just trust that it won't compromise immersion.
After all, that's kind of all this is about, right? Do we need to choose between accessibility and immersion? I'm not sure that we do.
That surprise A Cold One no plug-in Awakened Leviathan hit so hard. Props to you, J1mmy. I haven’t been able to verbalize why I haven’t gotten into modern PVM, but you hit the nail right on the head. PVM & plug-ins have transcended to the point that devs are having to think wildly out of the box for new content. Which in itself is cool, but I recognize with every PVM update I drift further and further into the non-PVM abyss. The barrier to entry grows by the day, and I worry about a future where only OSRS veterans can do what will be considered modern pvm at that time.
They’re designing new bosses to try and solve this issue. They want new players to have an easier way to get into endgame pvm.
Calling olm an "aquatic salamander" is bold.
In real life Olms are little Aquatic Salamanders
They are blind troglobites salamander/newts that resemble axolotl (still possess gills as adults) that eat detritus entering their cave environment from the outside.
If you know the lore he evolved tho he's not just ANY aquatic salamander. @@Sillyspiral
Itswill made a great point the ground just isn't interesting enough to use as "navigation". It was fun knowing what crate was the safespot or using stalagmite to hide behind but now with pathing and movement and a blank slate tile markers are necessary. An immersive version of tile markers could be like the Graardor example markers in this video, instead of tiles named 1, 2, 3... maybe instead some objects like 1 bottle, 2 bottles, 3 skulls so you're still getting that clean "immersive look" while still using ground markers for pathing navigation? Some visual overlays for tile packs for those plugin creators... Food for thought but great video Jimmy my thoughts exactly when I was watching the Leviathan Highlight clips when it first came out, totally put me off even trying the boss knowing first I had to understand the tiles and as well as the mechanics and looked too overwhelming.
Man argues with an imaginary person for 20 minutes
Jagex isn't too far gone like WoW is in regards to plugins being essentially required, and not using them is basically a way to ensure you NEVER get into any groups (because the fights and mechanics are dogshit nonsense, or just visually hard to discern anything). There's such a thing as making things *too* accessible and losing the magic of the game, instead of making it just a *game* as well, however. Its possible to reverse and course correct (you know... if they ever make content) They can also learn from FFXIV and earlier WoW on how to make arenas that help with mechanics or visual aids (even if that often amounts to square, circles, octogons, and maybe the rare rectangle)
I think RuneScape should do what FFXIV does, *design* the stage itself to *be* the ground markers. Most arenas in ffxiv will have some form of pattern, feature, or decal that hints the player on the size or alignment of boss mechanics, such that you can orient yourself at all times.
“This is what games are for. They teach us things so that we can minimize risk and know what choices to make. Phrased another way, the destiny of games is to become boring, not to be fun. Those of us who want games to be fun are fighting a losing battle against the human brain because fun is a process and routine is its destination.”
- Raph Koster, A Theory of Fun
Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance - or even a guaranteed chance - of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.
Yeah, a lot of us noticed this mechanic when we were watching Woox's stream when he was doing Inferno. And lots of others needed the plugins before they even recognized the validity of this technique.
Will seriously has a point about the floor/room design that, from an outsider's perspective, seems incredibly lacking. I don't play runescape, I just like watching the funny guys talk over it, but I do play FFXIV. and we have a meme over there that goes "there are lines on the floor" most endgame boss rooms are very clearly designed with the actual mechanics of the fight in mind. some rooms are just completely sectioned off already into neat squares, some rooms have nice defined circles that coincide with aoe's, it's very tidy and helps a LOT with positioning in the endgame. I feel like runescape could do with some lines on the floor
I know this is impossible for their spaghetti code but it would be so sick if within their own client they update so that you can “mark tiles” but make it look more natural. Like some rocks that come up or roots, even actual tiles if the room has a tiled floor. But making that environmental change for each individual according to their needs/wants and still make it look naturalish would be so cool
Exactly! The crazy high end pvmers try to explain that bossing is this so easy thing to do and it’s all brain dead and anybody can do it with the plugins on…when that’s a complete and utter lie! Bossing has become this tick perfect timing mess that is just ridiculous for the average RuneScape player. And by average player I don’t mean a new player, a lot of old players who play this game for the last 20 years who have a hard time doing this crap.
Just look at A Cold One’s right at the end there, that’s not for an average gamer with or without plugins
Great vid, its no longer a boss fight, its player vs a logic problem presented by the plugin. The statements about the bosses aren't complex or hard enough, but rely heavily on plugins. A lot of ppl prefer OSRS for nostalgia and how it used to be, but have plugins that are so divorced from the game.
As someone who exclusively marks random tiles which make 0 sense in boss rooms just to confuse high level osrs players, I just think everyone is using floor tiles wrong
Leviathan drives home your point about how complex PVM has truely gotten. If you are going to complain about how the bosses are not nearly complex enough, do it with out overhead notifications and tile markers.
I agree w00x is amazing and that watching stuff with tile markers looks like shit for sure. But aside from it looking like shit I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
I don't think it makes encounters easier, I think it makes learning things easier to a degree that you don't need or want to take those training wheels off. Without tile markers people would still be doing Olm and Graardor the same way because the correct tiles to step on still exist, just learning it would be harder. Even in w00x's inferno run he marked tiles with empty vials, to me it doesn't make his run more or less impressive if he had used tile markers instead.
I agree that the mass amounts of tile markers for something like Leviathan is ridiculous but its ridiculous in the same way as people highlighting every sentence in a text book is. If that is what helps someone learn then whatever.
I barely use tile markers for the dt2 bosses, but if I were to get rid of them the only change would just be a bit of memorization and extra focus on where i'm clicking. I'm not saying that its a good or bad thing but its just more enjoyable that way. Will has L walking tiles for Whisperer, i'm sure if he really wanted to he could L walk just fine without the tile markers. But I do think the annoyance of missing a tile is probably enough to demotivate most from doing it without tile markers. If this is the problem then the problem isn't with tile markers, its with visual clarity.
Hey Jimbo, FFXIV doesnt do ground markers, and the floors are designed to give you clues on raid mechs....just saying maybe you should do a 007 FF edition ;D cant blame me for shootin my shot
As someone who played WoW for 10 years I 100% agree with itswill cause WoW has a pretty much mandatory add-on called DeadlyBossMods and it literally tells you everything a boss is going to do before they do it so be careful Tile Marker users the slope is very slippery.
JAGEX can make the drop x4 times rarer if the player is using an external plug in, problem fixed. 🤖🤖🤖 plugins are like toa easy mode, so people deserve lower drop chances for playing the easy mode.
this is the slippery slope that naturally occurs when add-ons and plug-ins are allowed into a game.
eventually, it reaches a point where developers are creating content with these plug-ins in mind to the point where they legitimately do become necessary to do the content.
World of Warcraft has had the same issue on an even worse scale. It’s effectively impossible to do high-end endgame content without a plethora of add-ons in the current game. The hardest bosses in the game have their mechanics designed with the consideration that players will have all of these add-ons so they have to make them ridiculously more difficult to still stand as a challenge against players that have all of these extra tools at their disposal.
I love runelite like many others do, but giving players access to this level of plug-ins and add-ons definitely causes some serious issues to the overall health of the game.
hear me out, what if Jagex made the floor with tile markers built in? like what if the tiles where whisperer drops the little balls changed color before the attack like in other mmos with aoe markers and stuff, not sure how difficult that would be to do but I really think they could do a lot more with the boss room floors that could give us a lot of info without breaking "immersion" or whatever you wanna call it
The shifting game design ideas and desires of a company and community that gets better at the game is a VERY complex topic that is also explored through the lense of raiding in WoW in a video by Dan Olson/Folding Ideas in the "why it's rude to suck at Warcraft" video, I think it would be worth a watch to expand your talking points and maybe even make a follow up!
Keep up the great work 🎉
I'm 30 seconds in and the music, good lord the music, it's so good Jim. I'll never stop watching your content brother, it's so good
You know it's a J1mmy upload asoon as a sponsor gives him enough money, must be good friends with SirSellout
A cold one doing insane pvm content meanwhile i just teleported and ran to the completely wrong location doing a clue scroll despite the plugin telling me exactly where to go (i also forgot my spade)
It's like the difference between watching someone painting organically vs paint by numbers.
i've never seen your videos before. and i barley know runescape at all.
8 minutes into the video and i have no clue why being able to see the spaces is any more significant than not being able to see them.
but you've reiterated that its this huge deal 3 or 4 times now. with 2 entire bits dedicated to it.
i'm more confused than anything and clicked off the video.
gnomemonkey is very good at the game but he is so far disconnected from what a just normal/average player is lol
My brother in Saradomin eat some food. I feel like I'm watching you wither away with each release.
I'm surprised ground markers won the battle on becoming a bannable offense. It's just such overkill, it's gonna be like wow again where devs start balancing content around plugin users, and it becomes hard to watch other ppl do any pvm
And yes, there are humans who play this game that can discern tiles to a degree will. Those who weren't spoiled by plugins
Question though could cold one do it if the plugins never existed in the first place
Okay, cold one goated for that. Why am I not subbed to him. Gonna go do it now. Fuckkk
Make sure to download my plugin remover video recorder plugin lol haha amazing videos very interesting point
So to note, I'm not a RS player. Very heavily into FFXIV, but I enjoy watching certain RS youtubers because they seem cool. The biggest thing I've noticed so far is that the game itself seems to be a lot less about "kill this boss", and turned into "stand at this tile when you see this animation and it'll negate the attack". The first thing I noted when I saw the clip of Woox clearing that boss, is how unlike an Ultimate Tile Click simulator it is. Yes he's hitting specific tiles, but he's doing it to hide behind the wall, rather than because this is the tile the wall is on for this tick of the fight. It changes the focus of the fight from the tile to that wall instead, and why he's behind it. And I got the same feeling when watching The Cold One do it without plugins. I know he's clicking on tiles because he's likely memorised the entire fight, but it feels way more like he's dodging attacks, instead of just pressing a tile at the right time.
@CajunGator I feel like you're missing the point. I would also lower the difficulty to increase the pool of people that could do these. Jagex likely release new content with these plugins in mind, so they can up the difficulty and make things harder to the point where the plugin is required. So if you remove the plugins, remove some of the difficulty that makes the plugin feel required. Still make it a very tough challenge but a more accessible one so that anyone can feel like they can do it.
I hope you’re doing ok j1mmy. I hate seeing yah lose weight. Remember we’ll always be here for yah even if you gotta take a break.
It is what it is brother. The game is old now. It’s been “figured out” so to speak. A portion of the community is gonna play to that knowledge instead of choosing to play suboptimally clinging to some childlike sense of wonder. You are not lesser for deciding to play casually but you aren’t better either. Plugins give us the opportunity to play as perfectly as the game allows. As you said it’s a new challenge for us. You seem to understand exactly what the drive is and yet still look down on it. Like you said we are playing a different game now. You can still play the old one if you wish. But it gets annoying to hear you trash talk it as if it’s beneath you.
Your game is “wow this boss is so immersive and crazy wowzah”
And mine is “wow I can count the number of mistakes I made in that raid on one hand. Wowzah.”
We are both having an equal amount of fun in a different way. “Strokes and folks blah blah blah.”
Also difficultly is a matter of perspective. What’s difficult to you might be very easy to me. For instance my friend can run 500s with his eyes closed whilst I still struggle in my solo 350s. It’s just baffling to hear you discount that entire line of thinking by implying it only feels easy to us because we’ve dumbed it down with plugins. As if hundreds if not thousands of completions haven’t already dumbed it down in our mind. It’s doubly baffling when you probably couldn’t even complete this content yourself to anyway near the degree of efficiency as us with or without the plugins. So what exactly gives you the right to decide what difficult for me? When high level players are saying “I need something harder” they aren’t implying that everything exists is to easy. It’s just too easy for them because of how much they’ve done it. They aren’t speaking to the average experience because the average experience isn’t relevant to them. We don’t expect jagex to solely focus on releasing content for 1% of the community. However, we should be allowed to ask for content without being bashed or lumped into a group and our opinions invalidated by people that aren’t even playing the same game. It’s easy to just call us sweaty whiners because its puts you on a pedestal.(Never mind the fact that the skilling fashionscaper with 100k hours logged at GE looks at YOU as sweaty. Always a bigger fish m8.) You even said yourself even if most people copied our setups they still wouldnt be able to do the content. True, and this does speak to the perspective of difficulty from the wider community but that literally has zero to do with my friend who crushes 500-550 solos all day everyday waiting for the next raid to come out. Hes not allowed to ask for a new challenge because he uses plugins? Hes not allowed to say “this is too easy for me now.”do you think it’s too easy because he uses plugins? Or because he meticulously and methodically grinded for hundreds of hours working out every little mistake, every little strategy and optimization until he got to where he was…just crazy to me how close you are to understanding and yet you still seem to miss the mark by a hair.
My vote, is if it’s not directly exploiting the game in an unapproved way, the. Let people enjoy the game in whatever way they see fit. Stop disparaging people for playing like noobs, or playing like they did when they were a kid. Let the high level players grind their max efficiencyscape and just enjoy the game together. It’s just such a pointless conversation to have.
Yeah idk brother. Just doesn’t feel genuine when you act like you aren’t against it yet you very clearly think lesser of it. Interesting video I guess.
The problem is that this has now become part of the dev process when creating new content. Because tile markers and other plugins have been accepted and normalized, the devs are now creating content under the assumption that the majority of players will be using the plugins anyway so they have to ramp up the mechanics and difficulty to compensate to the point that the only time anyone is impressed is when you see someone like A Cold One doing Awakened Leviathan with all the plugins disabled. If anything, that’s what the hard modes should be: no plugins allowed, same mechanics as normal mode.
Which is harder Zuk in OSRS or 4000% enrage Telos in RS3?
Calling it "woox vison" is the greatest thing I've ever heard