How to know HOW MUCH Battery Capacity YOU need. Li Time / Ampere Time 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery Review
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- #rvlife #vanlife #carcamping #rvliving #lifepo4 #offgrid #offgridliving
Note that Ampere Time has changed their name to 'Li Time' a few months ago to more closely reflect their focus on Lithium battery products.
LiTime has some great "Prime Day" running on all their products until July 19th!
Check them out here: bit.ly/44zzUZC
or on Amazon here: amzn.to/46A3qA9
Here are links to other items seen in this video:
• Power Meter: amzn.to/3RKReF0
• BougeRV 40A Charge Controller (new!): amzn.to/3yebgz5
• BougeRV 200W Solar Panel: amzn.to/3uft77x
• Novopal 2000W AC Inverter: amzn.to/3bLsoEK
• Charge Controller Battery Cables 8 AWG: amzn.to/3ODbzuj
• 50A Breaker: amzn.to/3OD0x88
• 200A Breaker: amzn.to/3I9Cxad
• 12V DC Socket w USB ports: amzn.to/3R2RjDV
• 20ft MC4 Solar extension cables: amzn.to/3bL2CR5
• Cable Mgmt Clips: amzn.to/3nFHduZ
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I am a retired electrical engineer, and I see a lot of misinformation surrounding solar systems on UA-cam with content providers mixing up power, energy, efficiency, and capacity. You did a great job here! This information is very helpful for people trying to size their systems. Thanks!
Thank you sir!
All I need is jumper cables and three nipple clamps to have a good time.
Well I'm in the solar industry and I can tell you you are 100% correct. I tell people to ask the sales person what the difference is between power and energy and if they can't rattle it off the top of their head then kick them out the front door. Then there are some guys that are so confident they talk about capacity of a battery bank in K dubs. It irritates the hell out of me! Or the newspaper talks about a huge generator installed and it makes 30 kW a year. 😂. I asked them if they have a water system that produces 60 psi per year. 😂
Yup. This guy is on point. There is another guy that is really good.
He is the Mr. Rogers of solar information.
Will Prowse, I believe
@johnmadsen37 Well I thought it was funny 😂
I'm amazed... Someone on the internet who actually knows the difference between power and energy. I started googling this stuff and found that more than half of the hits were people talking that clearly had no idea. Thanks, this was super helpful.
Thanks! Though I HAVE been repeatedly called-out for co-mingling the terms Watt-hours and Watts per hour. hahaha
My rule of thumb for anything you want to run pretty much off the grid indefinitely is to take your daily device power consumption for a 24-hour period and multiply it by 3 to 5 to give you several days of capacity in your battery bank in case of a string of cloudy days or snow-covered panels in the morning. This usually gives you a good base to carry through even a string of poor solar days. Then add enough solar panels to be able to charge your battery bank in 1 or 2 days from empty to full. This size of system will only use a fraction of the storage on a typical day with decent sun but will still have enough capacity that you don't need to babysit it all the time when the weather is bad.
I got a 300 ah Ampere Time with the last of my savings and a charge controller and inverter so I can have at least some power for a small window air conditioner after hurricanes and to save some on my electric bill since I`m on SSI disability and utilities may skyrocket cutting into my small check. I live in a 5th wheel camper so my bills probably won`t ever be too high but I just moved in. I have solar power stations for other things like a freezer, dlorm fridge, and smaller stuff.
This is good advice and i wonder why more people don't also run a windmill, there is heaps available, they work well and we use them at sea. However i assume it's noisy in suburbia but off-grid means remote, imo.
@@neth77 There are generally stronger winds 'at sea'. Rule-of-Thumb is an average of 13 mph wind is needed to justify a wind gen. And that's NOT common.
I bought a 500 watt WG dirt cheap; and my area does NOT a 13 mph ave. But when it does get windy I want to take advantage of it.
I'd shoot for enough panels to get a full charge in ONE DAY.
One other significant point. The more you oversize your batteries vs daily draw - the longer their life span will be. There's no free lunch with physics but equally investment up front and IF You can avoiding heavy loads (C rate) will pay you back.
A lot of people scale too low or they talk about whole house systems and never define the proper total capacity. Your example was simple, explained well, and scalable.
I have four of those same batteries in my shop that has no power otherwise. 6 100 watt panels keep them up just fine considering I use the shop mainly on weekends to scrap cars and other metals. I can run a sawzall, 12 volt LED lights, a fan to circulate heat, chargers for cordless tools, and whatever else for the entire weekend. These batteries are exceptional for the price. I've never had any issues.
Use of the refrigerator as a reference, and project is brilliant! So many folks throw up random information which doesn't correlate to real world needs.
This was VERY helpful. The only suggestion for dummies like me is that you just round up from, say, 485 to 500, even if it's less accurate. The whole numbers make things easier by far! But yes, I watched this twice and hit rewind a few times, and it was much easier to follow than many videos on the topic. Thank you1
Thanks for the kind words! Making videos like this for UA-cam is often such a tight-rope walk...I know that if I over-simplify, I'll definitely get comments that I'm not being precise. So yeah...I try to walk that line and find that I'm rarely successful. hahaha Still, I'm glad you got some value out of it. :)
@@ReeWrayOutdoors also when it comes to powering critical equipment its best add margins onto theoretical values like capacity and power consumption.
I know this is an older video but youve just made an entire video on something i keep bringing up to myself in a quest for a small DIY solar setup ive been building. Of course you need battery capacity to run something while there is no sun...but you ALSO need enough solar generation to run said item while there is sun AND have enough surplus to bring your battery back up to a 100% SOC at the same time. You are the first person ive seen to actually bring up this real world way of having solar. I didnt find this out until well after building my system. Had i known before hand, i likely wouldnt have spent money on 12V only inverter and would have well upgraded my charge controller as well. At this point im doing all i can to make things work with the several hundred dollars i have invested into a system that is almost maxed out.
This is the information that you NEED above all else! You NEED to know what your usage (rate of consumption) is over time. No other info is as important. You can now set up minimum and maximum usage over time and choose the capacity of storage that is needed! The Watt mater is the best tool in the arsenal. How are you supposed to know what you need, if you don't know what you consume? This is the area of solar power that people need to become educated in!
One of the best things you can do if you live totally off the grid is to use as many smaller 12v appliances as possible, so you only have to turn on the inverter in certain situations, saving quite a lot of power, and therefore money.
Easier to design and live around a system based on 48 Volts. More power, less copper, and when it comes time to run AC appliances, you won't have to play the power rationing game. You can add a 48 to 12 Volt converter to power your 12 volt buss. Electrical Food for Thought...
@@s.mendez7160hello I have a ecoflow I guess with that more solar panels rt to keep more charge comeing in
@@irenealvarado3494 You decrease the charge time with more panels, or said another way, you increase the charge current into your battery bank.
Exceptional video! Each calculation was explained very clearly. Whenever folks start to contemplate their needs in terms of solar panels, solar charging capacity, battery size, system voltage, inverter sizing and losses, as well as distribution (110 vs 220), it tends to be very surprising. As you have spelled out in this video, it takes quite a bit of equipment and expense just to power a residential refrigerator off of solar and batteries. When you throw in those extended periods of poor solar conditions, and the equations for how many more panels and batteries are needed to account for that, it becomes clear that staying grid-tied, if you can, makes a TON of sense. Thank you for doing such an excellent job with these videos...they are far better than most!
It depends on your local cost of electricity, but solar usually pays for itself. Home battery backup doesn’t unless to have loads that you want to ensure never get interrupted. Here in California with our cost of power and the issue of taking power delivery out of service during high winds was enough for me to get a Power Wall. I have an automated system that keeps all my critical loads powered whether I am her or not.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 How long do you think it would take for this $2000 system(2 batteries/3 200w panels) to pay for itself just powering a fridge?
@@sjagain I would guess longer than the batteries will last.
Everyone else I’ve watched says you need about 3 times the amount of watts used per day. To cover for the days of no sun. So, suddenly we are talking $6k worth of batteries. You not charging those with 600w of panels.
I have been running numbers, I need something like 65k worth of batteries alone to go “off grid”.
We use about 60kwh per day 🥺
@@MrTruck1012 Well since these are LiFePO4 batteries they should easily achieve 15 to possibly 20 years of service before calendar aging completely takes them out. They will likely never see the number of cycles to kill them in solar duty before they fail due to age. The main thing you have to decide is how much you really want to run since a system that is being used to keep the fridge and or freezer on all the time could also power all or most of the lighting circuits in a modern house that uses LEDs along with a couple outlets without adding much more if any additional capacity and would really come in handy when the power is out. The batteries are expensive but there are ways to get by cheaper if a person wanted to DIY a system with raw cells and a BMS or 2. Used solar panels are sometimes sold dirt cheap. I bought 24 used 345watt panels for my system for ~$3800 that were only installed for 9 months and were about 1 year from Date of Manufacture. I paid $150 per panel plus tax. So if you look you can often find deals on craigslist and facebook marketplace on panels.
Going off grid won't be as inexpensive as being on the grid, especially if you buy a fancy new system with all the bells and whistles and have it professionally installed but if you start small with the goal of just keeping a fridge and freezer on plus a few lights and maybe a couple outlets you can often put a decent dent in the electric bill while also providing you with a bit of backup power when the grid is down.
I power my entire house except the range and internet equipment from a single 6000 watt split phase inverter that cost me $1200 about 2 years ago, Along with 3 X 60A MPPT charge controllers costing a total of $435, a ~375Ah 16S 48V LiFePO4 battery bank built from raw cells Measured capacity is a bit over 19.5KWh for ~$4500 with 3 BMS units included (I could do this slightly cheaper now). Water heater conversion to 48V (~$220) in parts and wire. 24 solar panels for $3800 plus about $200 in fuel to go get them. Ground mount solar array using heavy duty galvanized unistrut $1300. Various wire and cable along with fuses, breakers, busbars, shunts and conduit ~$2600. All totaled that comes to a bit under $14,300 not counting my time but it is a hobby after all.
In the past 2 years I have been almost completely off grid except for the electric range and my fiber internet CPE, router, and 2 access points. So I have already saved a bit over $2100 off my electric bill. While I don't expect to get much over 15 years total out of the battery bank, it could happen. I expect the system will pay for itself in another 12 years or so, maybe less considering how much electricity has gone up in the area. At that time I will need to buy more batteries and possibly a new inverter or charge controller. The biggest benefit so far has been that in the last 2 years we have had 3 local power outages, all from bad storms 2 times were only out for a few hours but one of the 3 the power was not restored for nearly 3 whole days and during that time I didn't even notice except the internet and cell service throughout the area was down.
This was a great video. Simple and detailed all at the same time. I'm sending to my dad for him to learn too! I think he'll follow you just fine!
This is probably the best video on solar for non commissioned solar officers...please ..since you are so gifted..make some more...very real ..very simple..and i will call Ampere time for a very big order for my projects...simply because i believe you...
For offgrid use i use a 9cf 24v refrigerator and a 10cf 24v freezer. Using 3 200watt panels, the system works great using 4 100ah agm batteries. With enough reserve to go a couple of days of fog. Great video.
What size inverter do you use?
But with agm is you want your batteries to last then you should only take them down to 50% depth of discharge which is 12v. So realistically you only have 200ah
Can i ask for the brands of the fridge & freezer, please? Would like to get a set like that for myself.
@@j5892000 both refrigerators use about 15 amps, when running at the same time. They don't run continuously.
@@dirtydog288 with the refrigerators i don't use an inverter. They're 12v.
I do use a 1000w inverter to run lights at night and a computer during the day.
Wow ive watched so much on solar and batteries and always was confused, you made this so simple to understand i truely thank you soooo very much , simple math and explained perfectly....im working on a 17 foot camper and want to start gathering my electrical system components and you helped me tremendously.....thank you very much
Took me a couple days to figure this out all on my own starting from zero knowledge of solar. This video would have helped big time a few days ago lol.Very clear and concise. In TX, in these past 90 days of 100+ weather the AC makes my daily usage 75,000 watts...Im gonna need a ton of batteries lol.
During the day you will be pulling straight from the solar panels and not the batteries! Batteries are for when the sun isn’t shinning(nighttime) or when your pulling lots of power beyond what the panels can do
@@thomascranor9505 During the day my ac plus other utilities hover at around 5,000 watts/hour, how many solar panels would I need to keep that going from noon to 6 pm? What about rainy days and cloudy days? Also I don't want to backfeed the grid ever so that's why I want to stay on battery use and storage only.
I'm glad I found your video. The way you explain how solar works and what you need to make it work helps me to understand it all better. I'm sure I'll have more questions at a later date.
I can attest the customer support ... and there were some minor concerns and all was resolved quickly and with good information.
Great job. Thank you for sharing. Now let's look at the 10 year de-rating curve for the battery to include that 20% reduction and reduction of solar panels (-20%) efficiency add 50% more battery capacity for beyond 10 plus year coverage on your battery requirements. De-rate curves need to be included so end of life for that system is extended. Peace and blessings to all. ❤❤❤
Enjoyed the lesson, thanks! Your example is very practical too; keeping a refrigerator running is probably the most critical need in a long term power outage situation. One positive fact which significantly prolongs the battery’s watt hours, is that a refrigerator does not need to be powered 24/7 to do it’s job. During long outages here in eastern NC, to save fuel, we will run our generators 3-4 times a day for 3-4 hours.
Same here in TX
@@SomeBuddy777 another power saver....I'm from Florida but now live in South Louisiana. Between me and the in laws we use a bunch of deep freezers for fish and game. Freeze clean 2ltr bottles of water and keep a few in freezers and fridges. It helps reduce cycling. We do it year round. In the event potable water is in short supply you can thaw them out.
Thankyou thankyou
Was so excited when you chose full size fridge for example
Great video. Something that got my attention a few years ago was when I plugged a Skill 7 1/4 inch worm drive circular saw into a 2 kilowatt gas generator. The saw draws 15 amps at 120. Volts or about 1800 watts. Should work. What I forgot was the extra energy needed when I pulled the trigger. Yup killed the gas generator. (I've been using the Kill-a-watt units for years, great product.)
It's not just the running power.
The battery's ability to charge is another important constraint. Ampere Time specs a MAX charge rate of 100A, but if you want to get the full life out of the battery, you should use more like 20-50A. If other decisions drive you to a 3 kW solar array, for example, then you should realize that a pair of these batteries will only handle 12.8V x 100A x 2 = 2.56 kW at 100A, or half that if you want to prolong battery life. We sized our system to cancel out our utility bill, for example, and then got the minimum battery capacity needed to charge under full-sun.
ty!
Excellent information. Straight forward, easy to understand and no marketing BS. Many thanks and a pleasure to subscribe.
First off--excellent video! If you will be using a Kill-a-Watt to calculate your avg requirement you'll need to multiply it by factor 1.2 (min) because the 485 watt avg daily solar for your panel is based on current at the panel itself, before being conditioned and stepped down to charge your batteries and/or be inverted back to AC for your appliance load. So each 92 watts through the outlet requires at least 110 watts of solar production at the solar panel leads. Conversely, 12/24v chest freezer (which can be used as a fridge, too) is really the best way to do this "indefinitely" . You will only need a small charge controller, one 250w panel and one 100ah 24v battery. The daily consumption of a 12/24v 9cu' freezer is less than .75Kw, and less if it's in your midwest basement at 65F*ambient. You'll use about 500watts of your 2500watt battery capacity (DOD--20%) daily, so it's ok to go with an AGM in this particular case, and still have enough storage for a three -day total eclipse! 😃 Plus they have very thick insulation(4-5" walls) and will stay cold for at least two days after total loss of power.
Crazy, I was just thinking about how to roughly approximate the size of my battery/solar needs and YT recommended this video. Incredible timing and exactly what I needed.
For the whole house requirements just look at your electric bill, it will tell you how many kilowatt hours you are being billed for and divide that by the number of days in the billing period.
One more addition needed here and it's the idle current draw of the inverter. Normally when the fridge is running it cycles between on and off, and the off state draws almost zero power. Your inverter standby power will still be drawn during this time and this can add up to a large amount of watt hours quickly even though there is no load.
Absolutely correct! 💯 I was thinking that my rounding things up would have mostly offset that, but it's a real thing and probably should've part of that walk-thru. So thanks for mentioning that.
I have some education in electronics and find your presentation to be on point . Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.
It;s a decent battery. Just don't let it freeze--no low temp protection. That said, I made a 600 AH system with their 200 AH batteries and a 4000 watt inverter. Works AWESOME! Best part is it's not a sponsored 20k battleborn/victron everything build.
I think you can add battery warmers to it though utilizing the inverter/charger right?
@@alexkennedy5133 You can. But I installed them in behind my 5'th wheel's kitchen cabinets directly under the bathroom. It's a heated otherwise unused dead space that houses the furnace and water heater, and therefore stays warm all year.
I've looked at solar several times over the past few years, a
nd by "looked" I mean: I looked at a few websites and videos and got frustrated and quit looking... After viewing this video, I really feel like this is very doable. You did a great job, my friend!
This is extremely helpful! Easy to understand and well presented with a focused message. I'm planning to set up offgrid power to my machine shed and want to run lights and maybe an outlet to recharge tool batteries. But now I can likely calculate what I would need to run a corded saw. And I'm surprised at the price of that battery. Two years ago I converted a cargo van to be a camper and used one $300 96amp hour glass matt battery. Lithium batteries were $1000 at the time. I really should upgrade to LiFePo. Thanks for your post!
I have lot to say.but I will make it in few words.
You the best on this video.and thank you for straight to the point info with fine detail.
I’ve got 700 watts of solar and two 30 amp charge controllers feeding a 200 ah Ampere Time Lifepo4 battery. That goes only to a 5,000 watt 12 volt inverter. It’s plugged into the shore power for the trailer which feeds 3-125 ah sealed lead acid battery’s . Should I use a generator or actually plug into shore power the cable is unplugged from my Solar inverter system. It’s fused and has breakers from the panels and to the lithium battery. I spent last winter in the Quartzite/Yuma area. The lithium battery worked flawlessly and I never had a single problem. Your calculated system requirements helped immensely with my purchases.
Im in the market for a solar system as we speak and this information has been so helpful. Thank you for breaking it down. Now i know exactly what i need.
I really like the use of a power meter as it gives you more realistic data for estimating your systems requirements. Make sure the meter you chose displays real power and accounts for the power used by the meter. Also, please adjust the battery’s capacity to less than 100% DOD, say maybe 80%, so the 100Ah would really be 80Ah. One last point is that in addition to Wh calculations an estimate of startup currents and VA for inductive loads is needed. These help in selecting an inverter and fusing. Thanks
I agree with your 80 percent capacity derating, Ive learned that some li iron batts also degrade if the they are topped off/maintained of over 80 percent of charge---thus a real usable capacity of 60%
@@rameye According to the AmpereTime website, these batteries have a built-in BMS. This management system should protect the cells from overcharging and overdischarging. This probably means that the full 100Ah is available and you shouldn't have to worry about changing the charging and discharging profile yourself. The one thing which is worth controlling in the charge and discharge rate - the gentler that is, the better. Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are a lot more tolerant than the older Lithium Ion batteries which have higher capacity for given weight and volume - but for static energy storage weight and volume are less important. Additionally, the newer batteries don't contain (or contain much less) cobalt and nickel.
AmpereTime suggest 4000 cycles and if you only charge once a day from your panels then 4000 equates to the best part of 11 years. By that stage you'll certainly have got your money's worth out of them.
@@mb-3faze thank u for the additional info
I rarely log in and give thumbs up and subscribe. You gave me usable knowledge. Thank you. I will rewatch without the addblock. :)
This was extremely well done. Very brief, clear and helpful.
Enough said.
Much appreciated!
Brief? Brief would be at least 60% shorter without all the advertisement for the battery
Great info! Everything was well explained and showing the calculations as you talked about it was very helpful. Thanks!
Excellent video! I am a huge fan of solar and understand that you need to balance your expectations. My purpose for solar is backup power, and I determined first how many panels I could support, then purchased mostly 12v items, including a dc fridge that could be supported simultaneously by the panels, then purchased batteries that were 4 times the capacity of the load during a 24hr time period. This will give me 4 days of dc fridge, lights, fans, laptop and phone charges, and various small electronic recharges. And I have a Honda i2000 that I plan to top off the batteries daily and intermittently run ac appliances like microwave and toaster oven. If real world testing shows I have power to spare, I would like to add an inverter as well to lesson my dependance on the generator.
Great point about 4 days of power, you would hope to get some sun every 4 day cycle. I know the 24v fridges are bigger than the 12 v, I wonder if they’ll surpass 12v sales and popularity. Still considerably smaller than current mains supply fridges, but perhaps two would do the job? What is the capacity and price of your battery system please?
I like the Edison type batteries because you can run them down very low without damaging them, and on top of that you can maintain them and even refresh them later into new batteries by switching out the acid.
You can still get these types of batteries from China and Russia.
I plan on getting a big battery bank, solar panels, invertor and backing it up with a couple small Honda propane fired generators and a very big propane in ground tank.
I want a 12,500 gallon tank so I could go 10 years if I need to on the 10k of propane in it.
If we get set back to the stone age, I want to be good for 10 years even if I do nothing else for supplies outside my property.
@@jasonbourne1596 when does propane go on sale?
Generators can be run on hydrogen.
10yrs food supply could take up a bit of space. Secure, and environmentally controlled storage.
Need to think of intruders/invaders. , , could be a sizeable meteor, that intrudes...lol
Have fun 🎯😎☕
Probably better off with multiple smaller tanks, one serious leak could ruin your decade.
Something you didn't cover in detail is how much solar and battery capacity you need if you need guaranteed power 24/7/365. In most cases solar has to be 5x and battery capacity 10x for this to be feasible so a ICE generator is required for interrupted power without having to spend 10x.
A video covering typical worst case scenarios (i.e. a month long bout of clouds, rain, and snow) would be helpful and very interesting.
Thanks for making these videos. They are well done and interesting. done and
Your video is very useful and you explained very well. I would like that you consider a video adding a fuse to the battery and any fuse you may consider necessary. You have the ability and the skills. Your video is A+
The wife of 27yrs and I have decided to buy a 95 Chevy flair 34ft class A like a week ago and we’re going off grid out here in flagstaff right before winter 😂 ..I know not smart but we’re 51 and tired of paying rent ..your videos are helping me a lot to figure out my solid set up and I think I’m going to run a wind generator also ..keep making these vids bud and thank you
Awesome! Live the dream!
I've watched others talk about solar and batteries M but your presentation was clear and easy to follow, Thanks 😊
Awesome, thank you!
this was a great to the point video. very useful to my new system set up. thanks
I loved this video, one of the best I have seen that explains how much battery do I need and how much solar I need to to be able to run my RV off grid.
Well done video and I really love the math you did to break it down to show us how it work.
I make it simple as just saying you need a three to one ratio for your solar to your battery just like you did
you had 600 W of solar and 200 amp hours of battery
I live in Columbus Ohio and I’m just starting to figure all this out. Great video Sir.
Thanks. New subscriber. For those of us in low temp areas, I noted that your battery recommendation here does not offer low temp cutoff protection. As I am new to this topic, responsible reasoning assumes that anyone would benefit from having a battery with both low and high temp cutoff protection. Obviously, not all live in low temp areas, but if you were ever inadvertently presented with low temp conditions, the cost adder for a battery which has both cutoff features would seem minimum, but it's value would be a great return.
Yeah, low-temp cut-off isn't TOO much more expensive...self-heating options though tend to be significantly more expensive. I do have a couple of options I've reviewed with low-temp cut-off (and a very recent one with self-heating). And I'm actually working with one now that I THINK is suppoed to have it (and bluetooth BMS connection)...so we'll see in 2 or 3 weeks how that goes. ;)
if you are not worried about AC or heat and you are not working remotely - 3 batteries are more than sufficient
if you are working remotely, add 3 batteries - this will give you the ability to play some movies in the evening
if you install a mini split AC or have one of the new 12v efficient AC systems, you need 7 - 8 batteries to survive till the next day, 10 batteries would be best
if you are using the high powered roof AC - you cannot get enough solar nor enough batteries to boondock, you will have a massive daily loss requiring a generator
I know because I have been living in my RV full time for over 2 years with 2040 watts in solar, 7 battleborn lithium batteries, 2 MPPT's and Victron 3000VA inverter.
I work full time, my AC runs all day, even when I am driving - but I have a minisplit - the OEM AC was just too much power
very good info. I design and install off grid systems and have lived off grid for 20 years.
firstly, living efficiently is the key and we use around 5.5Kw/day (Kw hours if you like). 3 - 3.5Kw is used per day just to run our fridge and chest freezer. so the most important part of design is to choose the most efficient refrigeration. most fridges give you a kw/year consumption rating, and this is great, but the rating is usually in ideal situations. if you have kids, who stand there with the door open and multiple trips to the fridge, the fridge will use way more power. Inverter fridges seem to be the best option. my old fridge is very inefficient, though 20 years old and was marketed at the time to off grid users as only using 1Kw/day. so you can see my fridge uses a lot more than the manufacturer stated.
the rest of our load is electronics, lighting etc, all adds up to around 2Kw/day. No ac, no electric stove top, hot water etc.
we have 1600Ah - 24V wet cell lead acid battery bank that is 20 years old, and probably only holding 50-60% of rated storage nowadays. but when new, at 50% doc (depth of cycle, we had roughly 20Kw of storage. so enough to keep us going for three days with no sun. 4rth day, kick on the generator.
anyway, hope that all helps someone.
cheers
I know this is outdated but thanks for contributing....my situation is quite similar and those real world examples should be very beneficial to anyone considering solar or alternative power, thanks
When I got my solar installed on my home I also got a Power Wall. I waffled between one and two Power Walls, but decided on one thinking I could easily add a second if needed. It now has become more difficult and much more expensive to add a second Power Wall. On the other hand rack mounted LiFeP have been getting more attractive. Now if someone came out with a system to integrate multiple battery systems I would have a viable alternative.
All mamaged battery manufacturers can offer parallel design. Pylontech, growatt etc
@@gigel99324 Thanks for the feedback.
I have a 12v fridge and it uses 100ah per night. With 600 watts of solar we’re fine on sunny days and even some rain. What kills the solar the most is shade. Time for the generator.
It just amazes me that these wattage-measuring devices can tell you the hours since starting and the watts used since starting, but you have to pull out a calculator to figure out the average power used for that length of time. It would only take them a few lines of code to calculate kWh for you and also be able to have it display that in what we actually use - Watt-hours.
You're right! haha and I'd gladly pay the extra few bucks for that. :P
Excellent video; thank you! I recently watched another video where a fella was trying to do the same thing, and it was painful. Yours, however, was clear, to the point, and it is obvious that you have a good handle on the concepts presented.
Thanks for the kind words!
Yes, good input, please keep going,good understanding of the math & DIY solar panel. Thx
Now *that* explanation of the math was great. I'm not a math wiz. Just another old widow. But I followed all that you explained. I am wanting to know which solar gen will keep my devices running if grid goes down. Your info is not what I need. I have ordered a kill a watt device to calculate my cell, laptop, desktop, tablet, router, electronic coffee pot ..not all at once!
I am searching for a solar gen I can afford and panels for it that can keep me going. I live in an apartment and have a 10 lb dog.
I have begun prepping $lowly a$ I do not work anymore. Katrina in N.O. and the Texas freeze, and Hurr Ian made me aware I needed some things. I am subscribed to several websites to learn what to buy and how to use them.
Excellent …. Just excellent … a thinking through of an oft ignored problem when sizing a system. Thank you ! Deserved a subscribe!
What a small world. I live in the Cincinnati area also. Great video, I will be checking these batteries and more of your videos.
You did a great job explaining how to utilize this battery all tools in this video Thank you!
🙏🙏
I'm just starting to learn about all this battery, inverter dc-ac, dc-dc, it's still confusing. Your video is a fantastic resource to come back to, thanks .
Glad it was helpful!
The wattmeter suggestion is particularly helpful
Have you built a larger system? 4000w. Would love to see a DIY system. I halve how clear you are with your instructions. Thank you for your time sir!
I've done a video on a 24V 3000W system. And very soon, should have a video out on a 48V 5000W system. :) Stay tuned!
The video was great, your abilities as a narrator are spot on and your knowledge of solar, electrical conversion and power requirement are very good. I appreciate the ride along and the time it takes to create, edit and UL these videos for me to enjoy.
I did the math and surprisingly it corresponded to yours very closely, I did consider inrush current in my calculations and worked out the duty cycle of (I used an inverter AC which is in my bedroom) the appliance, where 40% of the time it uses only the fan @ 300 watt draw and 2% of the time is using 1800 watts (inrush) and the rest of the time compressor and fan use 900 watts.
I am 100% for solar and being all the way off grid, as an opening statement to dissuade the comments I can already feel coming... but most of the folks out there have no idea of consumption rate, inrush or any electrical knowledge and think solar is some mantra from heaven generating unlimited power when, without the proper knowledge in system design, in actuality it could very well leave you cold, in the dark and quite hungry as your food spoils...
I agree. In fact, I went ahead and bought Ecoflow Pro's and extra batteries just to keep from having to do all of the calculations and balancing. I also got some of the Ecoflow Delta units as backups for some appliances. I was never able to determine exactly which product was the best or most cost-effective. I just decided on getting something rather than waiting forever.
Sir… you are a god send… that started to help me out understand how this works…
Thank you. Very helpful. Fulltime RVer. Looking to replace two one-year-old 91Ah AGM batteries in my RV. Have 1200watts of solar - wasted because not using lithium batteries.
At 7:30 the calculation of 6201 W / 68 H would give you 91.2 watts per hour as in w/h not Watt hours.
The Watt Hours if multiplied instead of divided, would actually come out to 6201 W x 68 H = 422 kWh (kiloWatt Hours) or 421,688 Wh.
At 8:25 you calculate correctly by multiplying 16 h x 100 W = 1600 Wh or 1.6kWh. Thank you for this informative video.
the system I have built will allow for adding panels, or batteries, at present I will be using a 100 amp mppt controller, 3 100 watt panels, 2 Renogy 100 ah batteries, 4,000 watt 6,000 watt surge inverter, for lights, mini fridge, 900 watt microwave oven, diesel heater, desktop PC, 32" flat screen tv, and I live in Mississippi where there is usually plenty of sun
If they made refrigerators and freezers with remote compressors you could put them in a cool room and scavenge the heat for an interior room for increased energy efficiency all around.
Super clear video and very well explained. Looking forward to building my DIY solar system to power some everyday units!
I just became a full time rv’er and I am building my first solar system and I needed this help so bad! I’m trying to figure out how many 100w panels and batteries I need to
Run my tv laptop and lights
I was so lost
Given the current cost disparity between panels and batteries, over paneling is the current cheapest option. If you can reduce the number of days you don't make the power you need you can get away with a smaller battery.
what about limiting draw from the battery to 50% of capacity?
You should also consider charging current needs.
LiFe04 don't care too much, they take what you give it.
But many AGMs like 10% of AH rating, or 10 Amps.
For the uninitiated, (me) this is a very helpful overview. thank you
ReeWray looks like a decent battery but it is lacking 2 important features. A bluetooth app for the BMS and Cold Charging Cutoff protection. The C.C.C. is a big one and wish you had mentioned it. One charge below freezing and your battery can be ruined. It has a BMS, but with no way to communicate with it the user can't make any adjustments. Most of these batteries are factory set for 14.6VDC, you get max capacity but a reduced life cycle. Plenty of info out there on that, I knock mine back to 13.8 to 14.0 to add longevity while still getting near max capacity. Good info on load calculations, Thanks
Thanks GC! Yes, I absolutely forgot to mention Low Temp cut-off! That was definitely a miss on my part and was something I'd intended to mention, and point out that there are 3rd party options (cut-offs and heat pads) to add this if you're going to be in freezing temps and need to protect against that. But you're absolutely correct in that it is definitely preferrable to have Low Temp cut-off integrated through the BMS.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors I saw that Will Prowse did a complete tear down of Ampere Time and gave it really good grades for it's construction but was shocked to discover that it did not have one of the most basic and important protections, the C.C.C. because of that he could not recommend it.
Truly a shame for $50 more Ampere Time could have included it with a Bluetooth BMS and would have had a killer product at a fantastic price. Your BougeRV controller does not offer the low temp cutoff even thought they include the probe, But that still wouldn't work for an RV as the converter will not shut down on low temperature. By the time you science project it up with heating pads or other options you could actually just buy a different brand with the protection. Hopefully you can provide some guidance to Ampere Time because I am all in on sub $500 batteries that offer a full protection package. I know you are just getting over Covid and probably suffering from the "Brain Fog" most likely while you forgot to mention it, really glad to hear you are on the mend!
I have the same BougeRV controller as you do, mentioned it a couple vids back. I wrote Bouge about updating the app/firmware to let us Lithium users enable the C.C.C. they said they are considering it. Maybe if they heard from someone with just a bit more "pull" ?!?
I doubt I have any more 'pull' than you! But actually I did provide this same feedback a couple of weeks ago to the BougeRV contact I was communicating with and he basically said that he'd take the suggestion to the engineering team to see if it was something they could implement. So....we shall see. Seems like all they'd have to do is make a FW change since it's likely the necessary electronics are already on-board.
Bluetooth app is not necessary and if you use victron charge controllers, low temp cut off is not an issue if you add their Smart Battery Sense Module.
The industry standard voltage used to calculate watt hours for a 12 volt Lifepo4 battery is 12.8 volts. That's considered the nominal average voltage under load.
Thanks Andy! Despite my best efforts to hide it, I was (am) still recovering from a nasty bout of Covid and so I was trying to avoid having to 'math' 1280+1280 on the fly (since I hadn't written it down) and so I rounded it down. hahaha true story. :P It was all I could do to string a coherent sentence together (with multiple takes)!
@@ReeWrayOutdoors
Lol been there myself. All good 👍
Very helpful, well done so even I can under stand it. Did not know everything about the plug-in watt meter. Great little tool. Thanks
thanks for the info im starting my own outgrid setup and your input its great it help me a lot.
Thank you for providing your experience.
Excellent video! Very well presented and informative. Thanks for doing this. I'm looking to do EXACTLY what you described in this video.
Learned a lot.
Very clear explanations. 🤙
good job explaining process. pictures getting from ice box to panels to batteries showing math undere each section might help a new person. that style helped me better a few years ago get started. But your way is alos understandable now for me. thanks.
Great Explanation! Very Clear! Thanks!
I added batteries until I could run my load over night. I ended up at 15.3kWh. In the summer I can run 2 dual inverter AC units, as well as the entire house load through the night easy enough.
First thing nobody's common do anymore. We all are geniuses just like you UA-cam we have you makes us a genius
Great video, and your a drummer. I'm subscribing for sure.
Great video! Could you possibly share the link for that solar radiance info so we can look ours up? I tried a quick search, but didn't seem to find something basic. Thanks!
I live on the east coast of Australia, at -28.3° latitude (near Byron Bay).
On a ridge line, with virtually no shade on the roof. 6.325kW of PV on the roof, facing east and west almost equally split (that's just the way it is).
Today, right in the middle of spring I've only made 5.53kWh from the panels.
On a sunny spring day it's more like 31kWh, so you always have to to plan for a rainy day.
Excellent, thanks. It cleared up lot of things!
This is a very helpful video and I learned a lot. I've still got a couple questions for you though :
a) is there a version of the kill-a-watt device that I could run in line of a 12V system on my small fishing boat ??
b) can you recommend a batt. charger for this Ampere Time 100 Ah battery ?
c) is there any particular process I should consider when charging & storing batt. between uses and over winter months w/ no use ? (continually charge ? charge to full & disconnect ... check monthly or so ?? or some other way ?)
I live in Louisiana so no extreme weather issues.
Thank you for your generous consideration,
Sincerely ....................
Great video!
Very cool and info packed video.
Really enjoyed the real world scenarios.
Ampere Time, Chins, Zooms(now Redodo) and Enjoybot batteries are all made by Enjoybot. Some of the literature even says made by Enjoybot.
I paid anywhere from $319. to $339. on Amazon in groups of 4. Occasionally I had a discount code as well as points on my Amazon card that drove the price of a set of Chins down to $289. each.
That's the main drawback of running a 48v system, batteries are times 4.
You're the first person who didn't try to insist you need to know all the losses for the devices, wire, batteries and solar panels. Although all that stuff is important for a big system, it's not quite as critical for, in my case, a small sailboat system. I will not plan on using much AC power and will only have an inverter for a just-in-case thing, that throws a whole different set of equations into the mix.
Great, comprehensive video you made here. Thanks.
Cheap lifepo batteries are usually pretty good the price difference between them and higher dollar batteries is simply that most all cheap lifepo batteries are made from recycled lithium. Not the lithium itself but the lithium cells, bad cells are discarded good cells are used to make new batteries, bad cells are sent off for actual recycling. This is how the get the cost down on recycling the lithium.Old batteries are sold or given to a battery manufacturer. They disassemble the Lifepo batteries keep the hood cells and make good batteries the bad cells are broken down further to the lithium and recycled to make new fresh batteries. Mining lithium is cheaper than recycling it. This is the only way to make recycling worth it. Wich is why all lifepo 12v battery cells are identical
I think I understand that at this moment in time it would cost a fortune to run just one refrigerator on solar, that fortune would be dwarfed by the cost to run a whole house on solar. This of coarse is the reason this technology is not able to stand alone. If you feel a need it is your option but there exist no option that can make this technology a zero net expense . It is not even close with subsidies. It's an idea which could make sense one day but that day is decades away.
Really liked the real world math. Makes me wonder how popular a site would be where you could type in a city name and date, finding out how much solar you could expect on your panels.
So how much money did that cost you to run the refrigerator with the batteries in the solar versus running it off your house AC?
This was so helpful.
This was the best explanation I've viewed, Thanks!
Great video! Easy to follow along. Thanks for the time and effort you put in to this!
Thanks for the kind words! Sincerely appreciated!