i had to delete a fatphobic comment but just wanted to be clear: this is a place where people can share their thoughts & we can continue in conversation - but also a space that holds the expectation of being respectful to others and especially those who are more/the most marginalized. EDIT: all of my commentary about Black women is inclusive of trans Black women and always will be unless otherwise stated.
@Dawn Yae Black trans women aren’t protected at all. They constitute one of the most « bullied » group of the black community. Yes black cis women suffer but (even though we shouldn’t participate in competition olympics) we now that a big part of the black community is homophobic. So black trans women experienced specific struggles that even cis black women can’t comprehend (not that the west hasn’t tried to degender cis black women, the west still does). A lot of cis black women can attest that even black men have threatened them claiming that they would have broken their jaws if they were trans. At the end of the day, we all are black women. I give you that regarding trans-ness or cis-ness we might have specific struggles but when it’s times for the cliches, tropes and stereotypes we can’t negate that all of us Black Women are negatively grouped together
@@cloudyheart5148 No there are ! Just look at Pose and the darkest prettiest trans there (Elektra, etc.). People resort to these same stereotypes to portray them to
We can't blame all of this on white Hollywood, because most of the characters in this video were written by black writers, producers and black creators: Tyler Perry, Shonda, Mara Brook Akil, Lee Daniels, Martin Lawrence all write dark skinned women in an undesirable way. They drank the kool-aid!
Seems to me they (the black writers) may have power however, the narrative of the dark skinned sister still has to still center around conflict and confusion.
I'm not convinced that all blk people in Hollywood are loyal to our community. Many but NOT all put class above community loyalty. They will use a blk face to push the elites agenda.
...And everyone of them you named are sell outs! They use US for their benefit and all it does is reinforce these images again and again. People need to call it what it is. And call out who it is. I generally hate so called "Black movies" because it's the same thing over and over. It's not only a poor representation but it's literally NO represntation of Black women who have truly accepted themselves. Who do not compare themselves to some "Hollywood standard" or other women. We do the best we can with what we have and we encourage one another as a true Sisterhood. But no, that will never happen without over the top sexual situations, farting, profanity, peeing on a crowd and other asinine stunts those Black women characters who btw were old Af to play in the first place. It's pathetic how we don't even recognize that this is insulting and always has been. We don't even recognize the disrespect just because Black people's name is on it. That doesn't make it right, it makes it even more disturbing. Smh
Yes! I grew up watching documentaries. Ya girl has pretty much watched them all or now they are the same. So, UA-cam and these video essays been giving me joy.
I love how you touched on this topic and more people need to be aware of it. It’s very weird how there was more darkskin black women being represented in the 90s compared to now.
Yes! Nia long, Tiraj P Henson, the first Aunt Viv, Maxine Shaw lol.... There was way more representation for dark skin women back then. But the roles needed work 😑🤐
I think a good example of colorism in media Rue in the Hunger Games. Despite the text of the novel saying repeatedly she had dark brown skin, they cast a biracial actress to play her in the movie. I think white America has problem with the inability to empathize with a dark skinned character, even if that character is a child.
What's even sadder about this is she was still "too black" to a lot of racists who clearly didn't read the book. I remember one tweet of a girl saying it's hard for her to feel bad about Rue's death because of her "new skin color".
Toni was a flawed character but was always being chased by men. She was clearly desirable in-spite of her flaws. If you think about it she actually has very positive character arc: she starts as complete selfish gold digger, gets her heartbroken by Greg, falls for Tom, has a baby, and in doing so she learns to prioritise the child by ending things with Tom. She later moves to New York to co parent. She learnt what it is to care for others.
I remember an episode where Toni Childs stated that she didn't want a dark-skinned man because she didn't want a dark-skinned daughter because of the taunting that she received as a child
@A T I had the same mindset. I always said that I didn’t want to have a daughter because I feared she would go through what I went through. But in 2015, I gave birth to a beautiful daughter, she’s a brown skin girl. A lighter hue than myself. It broke my heart to hear a cousin in law of mine say to me when he seen my newborn daughter that she “must be light like her daddy cause she’s too light to be my daughter…..”
Issa Rae? How is that so when the only married woman on her show was a mixed/ light skin woman? Molly can't keep a man and Issa is insecure. How is that positive promotion for Black women?
@@eve3363 I'm not saying Insecure is perfect but the writers create nuanced characters, we know why molly is so unlikeable, we see her taking steps to change and why she acts the way she does. The other characters less soo bc it ls not about them too tough
I find dark skin beautiful , I had a tragic crush on a girl when I was 9 years old , the reason why , she was charming and friendly . She had the warmest smile and beautiful brown eyes . Men never forget about things like true friendship at least I never have . Television is make believe , don’t waste your time trying to measure your own value based on Disney characters it’s not real . I’m 50 and single , all my kids are grown and I’ve been writing books about a black family . Life sure does take us on a journey so enjoy yourself , don’t worry what other people say ! Live Free , Live strong and Live well 🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊
I think donna from parks and rec was a well-rounded character that was an important factor in the whole storyline, she was somewhat Jezebelle ig but the show didn't develop you to hate her or dislike her at all, and she was allowed to have power in the storyline, actually being one of the most powerful characters in the show. I think they did a pretty good job with her especially as she's dark-skinned and is not skinny, or stereotypical body-type of beauty standard.
Great video. Most of the light skinned black women in shows aren’t black but mixed. I would like to see more dark skinned black women in shows, with positive roles.
@You are Enough I'm not sure why black Americans think lightskined equals mixed. I'm from a country where the range of colour for black people is endless. No one assumes you are mixed because you are NOT dark black. We just accept that there are ranges to black complexion. Eg I'm medium light, my mom is dark black and father is brown and my brother is very light. I recall a cousin of mine being referred to as mixed when she studied in the US. It was very surprising to her and us? I guess it's a difference in cultural outlook.
@@Cekatu I don't think it's an assumption in this case. Many of the light skinned women in Hollywood cast in black women roles _are indeed_ mixed, meaning, biracial, women. Black Americans are fully aware of the range of colors fully black people may be. They're in our families. But the problem is mixed women being cast as us.
This is why Michonne from The Walking Dead is my Goddess. Breaking ALL the stereotypes. A very dark skinned black woman with noticeable afrocentric facial features and dreadlocks, becomes the love interest/wife of the series lead. She's beautiful, intelligent, strong, RESPECTED. And she and Rick ARE EQUALLS. Both, in the way they treat and see each other, and the way they are treated/viewed by everyone else. They support and trust each other, consult each other, save each other. They are each other's peace and strength. And yes, Rick finds her VERY desirable. Whenever they're in downtime, ie not struggling for their lives, he cannot keep his hands off her. A brush of the arm... or other parts. He stares at her like she just decended from the heavens. And he's (was) the series lead. When does that ever happen with beautiful dark skinned women like Danai Gurrera?
There's nothing on tv for a woke dark skinned woman to watch. I stay watching reruns and choose wisely in what a feed my brain. I get tired of point out she's not black she's biracial but I keep doing it.
this is gonna sound rude so feel free to be rude back. Let me make it clear I 100% agree that more dark skinned black and Indian etc women need more roles. But I just have to say how I feel. Maybe your tastes are way too selective and boring. You wanna watch ONLY woke shows? What even is a woke show? I apologize if I sound disrespectful. I definitely do. I just want to understand IF you have the time or want to explain it to me what tv you like.
@Janice White What types of roles should she take? She is part Black, and she loves her Blackness. Is that a crime? If she didnt rep her Black side, people would still complain. 🤷🤷🤷🤷
Good vid! And thank you for emphasizing “in the US” and “in Anglo American media”, as black Latin American this is very important because so often black-themed analysis tend to forget blackness outside of U.S (and sometimes the UK). It’s understandable, but it can feel alienating for an international audience as well. There’s a lot of intersections between the black experience everywhere, of course, but there’s also particularities to each region and country worth noting as well. So taking notice on pointing out the specific POV it’s nice.
I'm not sure about my observation of Veronica and Kevin from Shameless, but from what I think of their relationship is amazing, because V supports Kevin as he does the same for her.
@@OReily08080 Shameless just finished its last season... i stopped watching it, but so far i think V and Kev are still together. i found me the real life V and kev the clean moral version to their UA-camrs the
The only thing I thing I really disagree with is about Toni Child’s: she is well developed, desirable inspite of being deeply flawed and while she left on bad terms with Joan; she left on the moral high ground. She left after Joan almost cost her custody of her child and she decided to move across the country to co-parent with Todd. Toni grew into a responsible and caring mother and one could assume that she and Todd may eventually get back together. I actually think her leaving the show represents how she grew above the silly drama that the girlfriends got up to. Her departure was bittersweet as she would be missed and she lost a friend but ultimately she moved onto better things. So to conclude: Toni Child’s is win for dark skin women start to finish.
The one thing you omitted is that most of these shows are written, produced by black women now in the 2000s. Something should be said as to how we view ourselves. Lean, Shonda, Issa and Ava all have a responsibility to ensure how DSBW are viewed.
That's why Bridgerton kinda upset me. Even the biracial girl got the short end of the stick, and the dark skin older woman still had....European features, I should say
@@Alajoie-ur4mj| Are you talking about Lady Danbury? If you are, then I agree with you completely. Her actress is just a Black passing bi-racial woman in real life. Same thing with Marina’s character and actress.
@@OReily08080| RIGHT? Anytime I think about Bridgerton, I always get mad and upset. How does Shonda, a Black woman, who is also the executive producer for the show, does not even try to have any Black woman on the show? This could’ve been a great chance to portray Black women in a great light, but didn’t take advantage of it.
I watched TV in the mid to late 70s and remember seeing dark skinned attractive women. The shows were more family oriented and I was a child at the time.
I sometimes feel we don't focus enough on the dark skinned beauties we are shown and instead as a culture tend to focus on light skinned women more, typically in a negative fashion. I feel colorism is as much wrapped up in misogyny as it is racism. No one hates a light skinned black man in the NBA or on the rare occasion they get to play black men in film and television. I feel the hatred and focus is pointed at women almost exclusively.
Thats because dark skinned black men are already seen as desirable. Whether its a light skinned or a dark skinned man, they always get the roles. Whereas a dark skinned women gets overlooked because filmmakers think dark skinned women playing soft characters isn't realistic. When we go out for roles we're told to act more "urban" light skinned women do not get asked to do that. No negativity towards them, but they get to be seen as soft, and we don't.
@@TheIndigoLion exactly we live in a world where black women are considered undesirable simply because of the colour of their skin, black men were once here too, the Kardashian’s did a lot for them. If we really want to be superficial, every race as people who are less aesthetically pleasing but they also have those who are more aesthetically pleasing, so why for dark skin women are the more aesthetically pleasing dark skin women not given their dues. And don’t tell me there are no beautiful dark skin women because there are many dark skin women who are absolutely beautiful. In the black community light skin is automatically deemed as pretty even if your busted, it’s 10 points for skin tone, the shits got to stop.
colorism happens in the nba as well it’s just kept on the hush. literally some basketballers have admitted to giving curry hell just because he was light skinned. also, i think women are more open to speaking about colorism than men are because we aren’t so concerned about being perceived as “soft”; although at times we do get called “bitter” for bringing up said topic.
Yeah, I don't mind Ruby and her trans white lover - but damn I wish they dug deeper in that story arc. Like, once they introduced it, it's all I cared about...and maybe it was my own need to see an interesting exploration into a dark woman's experience but they could've done so MUCH more with her. But to your point, once she fulfilled her role in relation to everyone else, she was tossed aside. SMH.
Yeah, it's interesting how there was more representation back then. They could be oversexual, classy, and/or feminine, but today, you wonder where they at or they're tossed to the side
That is some smoking hot, sharp and accurate af commentary. ‘The viewers have to be punished for their desire’ 13:24 And there is always something rotten about her in the end! Wow
in regards to Girlfriends...yes tony was the desirable dark skinned woman, that they married to a jewish guy. I was an adult already when that show aired and I remember thinking so she's not loud aggressive or any of the stereotypes or tropes we are usually shown, so the subliminal message was that if you are a black woman and you are none of the aforementioned things then you are "good enough" marry white. I stopped watching after tony got married. Lynn was the biracial (flaky one); they always make the mixed woman a "phoebe" from friends. Mya the darkest one next to Tony, was loud aggressive and antagonistic and the only single mother who was in love with what my oldest daughter calls...a f*ck boy. and Joan...they did Joan so dirty lol. The single successful woman, who cant find a man because they are intimidated by her. They designed the characters as tropes but then ran them with stereotypes.
I really enjoyed this video and your delivery! your voice and buttery smooth and pleasing to my ears I was thinking of Kenya Moore during this whole video a woman I think is gorgeous and villanized unfairly sometimes just for being opinionated, intelligent beautiful and, DARK SKINNED. I've seen other housewives on RHOA and RHOP just to name 2 reality shows. I can think of several times and instances certain " HOUSEWIVES" might say or do something and get away with it or people would laugh and think it's cute, however when Kenya did something similar it's oh so wrong. I'm not saying she's an angel and I didn't think the way she kinda threw herself at Apollo ( Phaedra's ex) was cool cause it wasn't, I'm just saying Kenya seems to like acting out to keep from being bored, and she can't stand ignorant and judgemental people last but not least Kenya was HURTING and still may be. For YEARS this woman's mother lived nearby and wanted nothing to do with her. Wish I could give your video 100 likes keep em coming.
Since me and my partner don't engage in extra-relationship activities (ie: we're pretty monogamous), we are totally fine with telling each other about eye candy type stuff. So we're watching Lovecraft Country, and it's obvious my partner has the hots for Lettie. And he assumes Tic is my eye candy, and I said "not even close, it's Ruby", and has taken a back a bit, not horrified, but slightly surprised, it made more sense to him when I explained why, I mean, me, myself, I'm a larger woman and there's certain things about my physique that my partner loves because of it, so it didn't take him that long to understand. I was devistated that it's probably now impossible for that character to return.
Wow, these hit me in my soul. I feel a sense of freedom, but also feel shame. The programing is so subtle that I couldn't compute that I have been discriminatory towards my richly melanated queens. I really adjusted my preference for nothing more then pride or vanity. I really tried to force the hand of fate, just so I can feel like I possess something someone else desires. I've also known my counterpart is Kali in human form and I've been running from her for too long. To my Kali out there, thank you for your patience, I can't wait to make up for lost time.
It's been so subtle, I notice I'll settle for any face. I didn't even care that she'd be ambigious. I would look up her race/ethnicity and then go back to being proud even tho deep down, I knew something was off
I've been thinking about becoming crazy fit and a part of is because if my skin color, but also because being fit in general is overall a good thing. I noticed fit dark skin women who are exceptionally fit definitely get treated a lot better than just an average dark skin woman that's just my observation, but it's going to be a hard journey 😭
Thank you so much for this video 💙 I am an amateur writer and am scouring youtube to learn about characters and tropes I am not familiar with. Even though I am a POC I am always careful/worried about writing accurate and well-rounded original characters without accidentally turning them into a trope or, worse yet, subconsciously making them into a stereotype. As a non-black person who is very much familiar with colourism, this video is so helpful about a topic that has never been brought to my attention! What are your thoughts on non-black writers making black characters?
i think all writers need editors and feedback cycles for their process. when it comes to writing Black characters, that process should probably include screening for harmful mindsets, even when race isn't a major aspect of the plot. are all your evil characters darker skinned? if other characters have connections and relationships outside the main cast, do the Black characters as well? are the Black characters the only ones who don't have any seen family members? i think non-Black writers need to as questions like that (throughout the writing process, not just at the end when they find one Black person to proof read their story) to write good Black characters - but that it's totally possible. we need more writers like you! who are cognizant and trying to work away from these things
Thank you for the feedback! I agree that writing should be proofread and screened over and over again by multiple different people, but most definitely by the very same people you may be writing about. I also am of the opinion that you shouldn’t write about what you don’t know. Research should always be done regardless of what you’re writing about.
I looooooove me some NOVA!🥰 Also…. I absolutely love how you unpacked this. You have me looking at myself, lovingly. And I believe that you have expressed what I’ve been living. I had decided to opt out of the expectations of the big, darkskinned , girl/daughter/sister/friend/lover/etc. I’m fatigued of the shortsightedness… and then it’s beacons of light like your page that reaffirms my decision to live sovereign.
I came across your video after some online bullying and searching for something good and fulfilling to watch. I noticed you are almost at your 1k followers with amazing content, so I had to subscribe, and I hope you get there this month! You're on your way sis!!
There are some tv shows that I used to like watching for example "Uncle Buck, Let's Stay Together, For Better or Worse, Black Lightning, The Bernie Mac Show, Everybody Hates Chris, Moesha, Eve, The Game, House of Payne, Meet the Browns, Malcom & Eddie Show, The Tracey Morgan Show, Half & Half, One on One, Love That Girl and Second Generation Wayans Show." Which, I believe all had positive images of back women.
I just found your channel! This is a great video! I love that you mentioned the tropes associated with dark skinned black women in 90s black TV, something I noticed too now that I'm an adult.
As for the "Trope" thing, you can go way back to the 1970's, where you had 'Bern Nadette Stanis' playing "Thelma" from Good Times. As far as attitude goes, an older version would also be 'Lawanda Page' as "Aunt Esther". As for the "Toni" character, I thought you would've chosen 'Golden Brooks's' "Maya".
WM are noticing what the BM have been "discarding" and WM are swapping us up (after we heal and date from a place of wholeness, of course). Giving us a life where we can rest, go on trips, live joyfully and be feminine as we want (not be told to "march" or work like a man), and enjoy our African features in a positive, loving way. It's romantic and a blessing.
lol sorry to bust your bubble, but white men as a collective wont ever make black women more desirable in various media like movies, videoclips etc. It goes against their own agenda, black people, ( in specific black women) cannot rely on white media to portray us as wholesome people.
@@MichouThe Penny Penny was talking about real life, not the media. I agree with you on that point though. WM know better than to exalt other races of women in the media even if in real life they do (ie with Asian women in particular).
Wow! This was different, very refreshing channel. Love the narrator calming voice😍😍 so therapeutic✨ could listen to it all day.Seems we got a long way to go, I'm a proud dark skin female😎.
extremely informative, why is this only being talked about among smaller channels, I'm now understanding the complaint that "Left tube is too white", I've been watching Left channels for the last 5 years and all the stuff that you, FD Signifier, etc talk about is news to me. thank you and keep up the good work
Great video. I agree with another commentator who mentioned that many Black writers are responsible for the negative tropes of dark skin Black women (Lee Daniels, Martin Lawrence, Mara Brock Akil, etc). Along with that, this also happens with younger characters. For example, in the animated series the Proud Family, the darkest character is a walking stereotype. And although Diane's only an adolescent on Kenya Barris's Blackish, she's portrayed as a demon seed who is not only feared by her own mother, but practically hates everyone in her family. And she's usually stereotypically sassy and full of attitude. But Yara Shahidi, although older but still a pre-teen at the show's inception, isn't written that way at all. Coincidence?
We also are in fault. We accept people like zendaya as black. Guys i get we have little representation in the media so we cling to mixed women who look nothing like us. I get it. But girls we gotta do better. We have to only accept unapologeticly black women in the black women circle. Our features are valuable and we need to know it. We don't need to identify with zendaya or Alicia keys.
Right, it's nice to embrace them, but man, I was so used to settling for light skin, mix, ambiguous women as the face of black women. I knew they didnt look like me, but I wanted something
I'm still never gonna get over my samcedes. Don't really know if she fits in this trope, desirable nonetheless, but there were so many opportunities for her to receive affection and for it to be endgame
I really started seeing all these differences since I started dating my fiancee who is Black and the first Black girl I ever dated. I am Puerto Rican, BTW (we are not interracial, we are more intercultural)
I remember being excited to watch the Flash on cw because I heard the main love interest was a black woman. Then I looked her up and saw that she was a light skin girl with straight hair...
there were a few positive representations of desirable dark-skinned black women on tv. There is Liza Turtle and Ashely Banks. they were not main characters and IDK how well rounded the characters were but I don't remember them being deeply flawed
While I agree Journee Smollett is great, I was kinda salty that Ruby was a supporting character when she is just as talented, just as attractive, and could easily have filled that role. But, of course, can a curvy dark skinned woman hold the lead in a show that doesn't revolve around her size, or being the butt of jokes? I guess not yet.
Im so glad I just like women. Ethnicity, coulor and all that mean almost nothing to me. I like different things about different groups i guess but ive never been hung up on colour itself.
Toni Childs was physically and emotionally abused by her alcoholic mum, taunted and ridiculed by the colorists around her, called a gold digger for having the same preferences as Joan, literally likened to a devil several times by her supposed friends, and got blamed for being trapped in marriage by her broke lying husband. Yet we never once got an episode that explored any the the mental effects this must have had on her, to make her so cold. But they explained Joan's crazy, explained Lynn's leaching, explained Maya's cheating.
There was so many characters in the 00s and before, I just don't want to settle. It's tiring when non black women say "well at least you got a Disney princess," just one. "At least there's a black character," and they're usually a stereotype of have no character development
i had to delete a fatphobic comment but just wanted to be clear: this is a place where people can share their thoughts & we can continue in conversation - but also a space that holds the expectation of being respectful to others and especially those who are more/the most marginalized.
EDIT: all of my commentary about Black women is inclusive of trans Black women and always will be unless otherwise stated.
I feel like Elektra from Pose can be an example of the Desirable Dark skin Woman! I think
@Dawn Yae Black trans women aren’t protected at all. They constitute one of the most « bullied » group of the black community. Yes black cis women suffer but (even though we shouldn’t participate in competition olympics) we now that a big part of the black community is homophobic. So black trans women experienced specific struggles that even cis black women can’t comprehend (not that the west hasn’t tried to degender cis black women, the west still does). A lot of cis black women can attest that even black men have threatened them claiming that they would have broken their jaws if they were trans. At the end of the day, we all are black women. I give you that regarding trans-ness or cis-ness we might have specific struggles but when it’s times for the cliches, tropes and stereotypes we can’t negate that all of us Black Women are negatively grouped together
@Dawn Yae And Trans Women are Women
@@Sarahlancey I agree with all of your stagement
@@cloudyheart5148 No there are ! Just look at Pose and the darkest prettiest trans there (Elektra, etc.). People resort to these same stereotypes to portray them to
We can't blame all of this on white Hollywood, because most of the characters in this video were written by black writers, producers and black creators: Tyler Perry, Shonda, Mara Brook Akil, Lee Daniels, Martin Lawrence all write dark skinned women in an undesirable way. They drank the kool-aid!
Very true. We also can acknowledge that their views weren't shaped absence the influence of white supremacist structures like adverts and Hollywood.
Seems to me they (the black writers) may have power however, the narrative of the dark skinned sister still has to still center around conflict and confusion.
I'm not convinced that all blk people in Hollywood are loyal to our community. Many but NOT all put class above community loyalty. They will use a blk face to push the elites agenda.
@@kladies3021 not enough people talk about the class division
...And everyone of them you named are sell outs! They use US for their benefit and all it does is reinforce these images again and again. People need to call it what it is. And call out who it is. I generally hate so called "Black movies" because it's the same thing over and over. It's not only a poor representation but it's literally NO represntation of Black women who have truly accepted themselves. Who do not compare themselves to some "Hollywood standard" or other women. We do the best we can with what we have and we encourage one another as a true Sisterhood. But no, that will never happen without over the top sexual situations, farting, profanity, peeing on a crowd and other asinine stunts those Black women characters who btw were old Af to play in the first place. It's pathetic how we don't even recognize that this is insulting and always has been. We don't even recognize the disrespect just because Black people's name is on it. That doesn't make it right, it makes it even more disturbing. Smh
I love this era of UA-cam where we watch school-like presentations as entertainment .
okay, giving you google slides with no slide transitions
Yes! I grew up watching documentaries. Ya girl has pretty much watched them all or now they are the same. So, UA-cam and these video essays been giving me joy.
Same! My timeline is filled with videos like this.
I love how you touched on this topic and more people need to be aware of it. It’s very weird how there was more darkskin black women being represented in the 90s compared to now.
So true because racism is socially constructed
@@melodieperkins7080 more systematic than socially
@@jayneb6053 Exactly
Yes! Nia long, Tiraj P Henson, the first Aunt Viv, Maxine Shaw lol.... There was way more representation for dark skin women back then. But the roles needed work 😑🤐
@@jayneb6053 Do you know what is a social construct to say that because if you do you really would not say that.
I think a good example of colorism in media Rue in the Hunger Games. Despite the text of the novel saying repeatedly she had dark brown skin, they cast a biracial actress to play her in the movie. I think white America has problem with the inability to empathize with a dark skinned character, even if that character is a child.
Oh yhara Zayd did a video on this called the day rue "became" black
That reminds me of the “hate you give” too. I’m so tired of it
What's even sadder about this is she was still "too black" to a lot of racists who clearly didn't read the book. I remember one tweet of a girl saying it's hard for her to feel bad about Rue's death because of her "new skin color".
@@Iyana Oh wow dehumanisation at its finest.
Girlfriends never allowed tony to be weak or sensitive/love able for a whole episode without her being elitist, classist, or self centered.
They were ALL elitist, self centered, thin and beautiful. Thats why they were friends.
Toni was a flawed character but was always being chased by men. She was clearly desirable in-spite of her flaws.
If you think about it she actually has very positive character arc: she starts as complete selfish gold digger, gets her heartbroken by Greg, falls for Tom, has a baby, and in doing so she learns to prioritise the child by ending things with Tom. She later moves to New York to co parent. She learnt what it is to care for others.
I remember an episode where Toni Childs stated that she didn't want a dark-skinned man because she didn't want a dark-skinned daughter because of the taunting that she received as a child
Can't get mad at Toni. We gotta get mad at how us black folks have internalized colorism and treat our darker girls like crap.
Sad
@@ms.bubs4fun506 I wasn't mad at her. I was just pointing out that for all of her perceived confidence she still had internalized colorism.
@A T Truly sad!
@A T I had the same mindset. I always said that I didn’t want to have a daughter because I feared she would go through what I went through. But in 2015, I gave birth to a beautiful daughter, she’s a brown skin girl. A lighter hue than myself. It broke my heart to hear a cousin in law of mine say to me when he seen my newborn daughter that she “must be light like her daddy cause she’s too light to be my daughter…..”
Great video.
😳😭 i’m honored, truly
Issa Rae & Michaela Coel have the tv industry for black women and good writing on their back mehn
Issa Rae? How is that so when the only married woman on her show was a mixed/ light skin woman? Molly can't keep a man and Issa is insecure. How is that positive promotion for Black women?
@@eve3363 I'm not saying Insecure is perfect but the writers create nuanced characters, we know why molly is so unlikeable, we see her taking steps to change and why she acts the way she does. The other characters less soo bc it ls not about them too tough
I find dark skin beautiful , I had a tragic crush on a girl when I was 9 years old , the reason why , she was charming and friendly . She had the warmest smile and beautiful brown eyes . Men never forget about things like true friendship at least I never have . Television is make believe , don’t waste your time trying to measure your own value based on Disney characters it’s not real . I’m 50 and single , all my kids are grown and I’ve been writing books about a black family . Life sure does take us on a journey so enjoy yourself , don’t worry what other people say ! Live Free , Live strong and Live well 🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊
I think donna from parks and rec was a well-rounded character that was an important factor in the whole storyline, she was somewhat Jezebelle ig but the show didn't develop you to hate her or dislike her at all, and she was allowed to have power in the storyline, actually being one of the most powerful characters in the show. I think they did a pretty good job with her especially as she's dark-skinned and is not skinny, or stereotypical body-type of beauty standard.
Great video. Most of the light skinned black women in shows aren’t black but mixed. I would like to see more dark skinned black women in shows, with positive roles.
Honestly, id love to see black women playing black storie roles and mixed women playing mixed roles.
Wanda Vision has a great dark skinned black woman character.
and natural hair
@You are Enough I'm not sure why black Americans think lightskined equals mixed. I'm from a country where the range of colour for black people is endless.
No one assumes you are mixed because you are NOT dark black. We just accept that there are ranges to black complexion. Eg I'm medium light, my mom is dark black and father is brown and my brother is very light.
I recall a cousin of mine being referred to as mixed when she studied in the US. It was very surprising to her and us? I guess it's a difference in cultural outlook.
@@Cekatu I don't think it's an assumption in this case. Many of the light skinned women in Hollywood cast in black women roles _are indeed_ mixed, meaning, biracial, women.
Black Americans are fully aware of the range of colors fully black people may be. They're in our families. But the problem is mixed women being cast as us.
This is why Michonne from The Walking Dead is my Goddess. Breaking ALL the stereotypes.
A very dark skinned black woman with noticeable afrocentric facial features and dreadlocks, becomes the love interest/wife of the series lead. She's beautiful, intelligent, strong, RESPECTED. And she and Rick ARE EQUALLS. Both, in the way they treat and see each other, and the way they are treated/viewed by everyone else. They support and trust each other, consult each other, save each other. They are each other's peace and strength. And yes, Rick finds her VERY desirable. Whenever they're in downtime, ie not struggling for their lives, he cannot keep his hands off her. A brush of the arm... or other parts. He stares at her like she just decended from the heavens. And he's (was) the series lead. When does that ever happen with beautiful dark skinned women like Danai Gurrera?
I strongly disagree with all of this.
There's nothing on tv for a woke dark skinned woman to watch. I stay watching reruns and choose wisely in what a feed my brain. I get tired of point out she's not black she's biracial but I keep doing it.
Insecure is a good show for dark skinned women.
Watch “Run the World” on Showtime All black cast/relationships.
this is gonna sound rude so feel free to be rude back. Let me make it clear I 100% agree that more dark skinned black and Indian etc women need more roles. But I just have to say how I feel.
Maybe your tastes are way too selective and boring. You wanna watch ONLY woke shows? What even is a woke show? I apologize if I sound disrespectful. I definitely do. I just want to understand IF you have the time or want to explain it to me what tv you like.
@Janice White What types of roles should she take? She is part Black, and she loves her Blackness. Is that a crime? If she didnt rep her Black side, people would still complain. 🤷🤷🤷🤷
Check out AEW. There's multiple dark skin women on screen at every level in the company, each bringing their unique personalities to the show.
Do the boujie black women or the Oreo troupe or the black white girl .
Good vid! And thank you for emphasizing “in the US” and “in Anglo American media”, as black Latin American this is very important because so often black-themed analysis tend to forget blackness outside of U.S (and sometimes the UK). It’s understandable, but it can feel alienating for an international audience as well. There’s a lot of intersections between the black experience everywhere, of course, but there’s also particularities to each region and country worth noting as well. So taking notice on pointing out the specific POV it’s nice.
This message spoke to my heart & soul. Here I come y’all!!
I'm not sure about my observation of Veronica and Kevin from Shameless, but from what I think of their relationship is amazing, because V supports Kevin as he does the same for her.
nobody reallly talks about V who is a very attractive darkskin woman.
@@hugyface no one does and she deserves the recognition of how strongwilled and beautiful she is.
@@hugyface I've been wanting to watch Shameless for her. Is the show still going, are they still together?
@@OReily08080 Shameless just finished its last season... i stopped watching it, but so far i think V and Kev are still together. i found me the real life V and kev the clean moral version to their UA-camrs the
Wow I just realized I have NOT watched TV in like 20 years I have not even watched any of these shows
Have you considered being a writer yourself? This viewpoint is much needed.
The only thing I thing I really disagree with is about Toni Child’s: she is well developed, desirable inspite of being deeply flawed and while she left on bad terms with Joan; she left on the moral high ground.
She left after Joan almost cost her custody of her child and she decided to move across the country to co-parent with Todd. Toni grew into a responsible and caring mother and one could assume that she and Todd may eventually get back together. I actually think her leaving the show represents how she grew above the silly drama that the girlfriends got up to. Her departure was bittersweet as she would be missed and she lost a friend but ultimately she moved onto better things.
So to conclude: Toni Child’s is win for dark skin women start to finish.
The one thing you omitted is that most of these shows are written, produced by black women now in the 2000s. Something should be said as to how we view ourselves. Lean, Shonda, Issa and Ava all have a responsibility to ensure how DSBW are viewed.
That's why Bridgerton kinda upset me. Even the biracial girl got the short end of the stick, and the dark skin older woman still had....European features, I should say
@@OReily08080 I read somewhere that the actual actress is biracial
@@Alajoie-ur4mj| Are you talking about Lady Danbury? If you are, then I agree with you completely. Her actress is just a Black passing bi-racial woman in real life.
Same thing with Marina’s character and actress.
@@OReily08080| RIGHT? Anytime I think about Bridgerton, I always get mad and upset. How does Shonda, a Black woman, who is also the executive producer for the show, does not even try to have any Black woman on the show? This could’ve been a great chance to portray Black women in a great light, but didn’t take advantage of it.
@@FoxxyFatima Exactly. There are a good amount of books left to have a dark skin, non biracial black woman as the main love interest
I watched TV in the mid to late 70s and remember seeing dark skinned attractive women. The shows were more family oriented and I was a child at the time.
I sometimes feel we don't focus enough on the dark skinned beauties we are shown and instead as a culture tend to focus on light skinned women more, typically in a negative fashion. I feel colorism is as much wrapped up in misogyny as it is racism. No one hates a light skinned black man in the NBA or on the rare occasion they get to play black men in film and television. I feel the hatred and focus is pointed at women almost exclusively.
That’s is because black men have retained their image. Look at the media, when they talk about black men they are referring to dark skin men.
Thats because dark skinned black men are already seen as desirable. Whether its a light skinned or a dark skinned man, they always get the roles. Whereas a dark skinned women gets overlooked because filmmakers think dark skinned women playing soft characters isn't realistic. When we go out for roles we're told to act more "urban" light skinned women do not get asked to do that. No negativity towards them, but they get to be seen as soft, and we don't.
Erykah Adams darkskin black men were mainly desirable to black women, other races just started liking them when the kardashians did it
@@TheIndigoLion exactly we live in a world where black women are considered undesirable simply because of the colour of their skin, black men were once here too, the Kardashian’s did a lot for them. If we really want to be superficial, every race as people who are less aesthetically pleasing but they also have those who are more aesthetically pleasing, so why for dark skin women are the more aesthetically pleasing dark skin women not given their dues. And don’t tell me there are no beautiful dark skin women because there are many dark skin women who are absolutely beautiful. In the black community light skin is automatically deemed as pretty even if your busted, it’s 10 points for skin tone, the shits got to stop.
colorism happens in the nba as well it’s just kept on the hush. literally some basketballers have admitted to giving curry hell just because he was light skinned. also, i think women are more open to speaking about colorism than men are because we aren’t so concerned about being perceived as “soft”; although at times we do get called “bitter” for bringing up said topic.
I’m totally shocked that this video does not have more than 1 million views! Beautiful message!!!
Yeah, I don't mind Ruby and her trans white lover - but damn I wish they dug deeper in that story arc. Like, once they introduced it, it's all I cared about...and maybe it was my own need to see an interesting exploration into a dark woman's experience but they could've done so MUCH more with her. But to your point, once she fulfilled her role in relation to everyone else, she was tossed aside. SMH.
I've seen some clips of the show, I thought they were fluid, like sex fluid if that makes sense like Loki. If not never mind
@Mani Bear💋 LoveCraft
i have never heard of the phrase "sapphire" its just a gem stone to me.
Yeah, it's interesting how there was more representation back then. They could be oversexual, classy, and/or feminine, but today, you wonder where they at or they're tossed to the side
We have more today but they are not necessary as popular
I think we need a film version of The Bluest Eye.
I would definitely watch that.
I’ve been saying this for the longest
STRAIGHT FACTS!!!! Great video, this explained everything so well!!! Happy belated Halloween!!
That is some smoking hot, sharp and accurate af commentary.
‘The viewers have to be punished for their desire’ 13:24
And there is always something rotten about her in the end! Wow
You did that!!So sharp.
in regards to Girlfriends...yes tony was the desirable dark skinned woman, that they married to a jewish guy. I was an adult already when that show aired and I remember thinking so she's not loud aggressive or any of the stereotypes or tropes we are usually shown, so the subliminal message was that if you are a black woman and you are none of the aforementioned things then you are "good enough" marry white. I stopped watching after tony got married. Lynn was the biracial (flaky one); they always make the mixed woman a "phoebe" from friends. Mya the darkest one next to Tony, was loud aggressive and antagonistic and the only single mother who was in love with what my oldest daughter calls...a f*ck boy. and Joan...they did Joan so dirty lol. The single successful woman, who cant find a man because they are intimidated by her. They designed the characters as tropes but then ran them with stereotypes.
I'm so glad I found your channel!! Thank you for this work!
I really enjoyed this video and your delivery! your voice and buttery smooth and pleasing to my ears I was thinking of Kenya Moore during this whole video a woman I think is gorgeous and villanized unfairly sometimes just for being opinionated, intelligent beautiful and, DARK SKINNED. I've seen other housewives on RHOA and RHOP just to name 2 reality shows.
I can think of several times and instances certain " HOUSEWIVES" might say or do something and get away with it or people would laugh and think it's cute, however when Kenya did something similar it's oh so wrong.
I'm not saying she's an angel and I didn't think the way she kinda threw herself at Apollo ( Phaedra's ex) was cool cause it wasn't, I'm just saying Kenya seems to like acting out to keep from being bored, and she can't stand ignorant and judgemental people last but not least Kenya was HURTING and still may be.
For YEARS this woman's mother lived nearby and wanted nothing to do with her. Wish I could give your video 100 likes keep
em coming.
I think black folks feel triggered when a dark skinned woman has the audacity to be desirable and confident and not give af.
The genre of young Black shows died like fifteen years ago. I h8 it here 😭
This is so deep ! Wow, it is so true !
Since me and my partner don't engage in extra-relationship activities (ie: we're pretty monogamous), we are totally fine with telling each other about eye candy type stuff. So we're watching Lovecraft Country, and it's obvious my partner has the hots for Lettie. And he assumes Tic is my eye candy, and I said "not even close, it's Ruby", and has taken a back a bit, not horrified, but slightly surprised, it made more sense to him when I explained why, I mean, me, myself, I'm a larger woman and there's certain things about my physique that my partner loves because of it, so it didn't take him that long to understand. I was devistated that it's probably now impossible for that character to return.
Everybody in that show was eye candy to me, but ruby was soooo pretty to me
literally what was the point of this comment
It was hippolyta for me! Especially in the episode where she lives all of those lives.
Excellent commentary. New subscriber.
Wow, these hit me in my soul. I feel a sense of freedom, but also feel shame. The programing is so subtle that I couldn't compute that I have been discriminatory towards my richly melanated queens. I really adjusted my preference for nothing more then pride or vanity. I really tried to force the hand of fate, just so I can feel like I possess something someone else desires. I've also known my counterpart is Kali in human form and I've been running from her for too long.
To my Kali out there, thank you for your patience, I can't wait to make up for lost time.
It's been so subtle, I notice I'll settle for any face. I didn't even care that she'd be ambigious. I would look up her race/ethnicity and then go back to being proud even tho deep down, I knew something was off
Kali here. I hope you haven't settled while waiting.
Automatically subscribed. That’s all. Thank you 🙏🏾✨++
I've been thinking about becoming crazy fit and a part of is because if my skin color, but also because being fit in general is overall a good thing. I noticed fit dark skin women who are exceptionally fit definitely get treated a lot better than just an average dark skin woman that's just my observation, but it's going to be a hard journey 😭
You will make it! I'm rooting for you👏🙏💪
@@anitaboyle6778 Thankyou for your support 😭❤️
@@NattyBabesBudgets Your very Welcome ! ♥️
Well said. Your content was well researched and In powering for all DSW and girls.👍🏿
Thank you so much for this video 💙 I am an amateur writer and am scouring youtube to learn about characters and tropes I am not familiar with. Even though I am a POC I am always careful/worried about writing accurate and well-rounded original characters without accidentally turning them into a trope or, worse yet, subconsciously making them into a stereotype. As a non-black person who is very much familiar with colourism, this video is so helpful about a topic that has never been brought to my attention! What are your thoughts on non-black writers making black characters?
i think all writers need editors and feedback cycles for their process. when it comes to writing Black characters, that process should probably include screening for harmful mindsets, even when race isn't a major aspect of the plot. are all your evil characters darker skinned? if other characters have connections and relationships outside the main cast, do the Black characters as well? are the Black characters the only ones who don't have any seen family members? i think non-Black writers need to as questions like that (throughout the writing process, not just at the end when they find one Black person to proof read their story) to write good Black characters - but that it's totally possible. we need more writers like you! who are cognizant and trying to work away from these things
Thank you for the feedback! I agree that writing should be proofread and screened over and over again by multiple different people, but most definitely by the very same people you may be writing about. I also am of the opinion that you shouldn’t write about what you don’t know. Research should always be done regardless of what you’re writing about.
Bestie recommended me this vid and you just got yourself a new subscriber! Keep up the good work sis
Sooooo well made ! I’m glad I got recommended this video. Amazing writing and analysis!! Subscribing now !!!
Lupita Nyong'o, Grace Jones, Ebony Ayes, Khadija Mbowe..."Rrrhheeett RRRrreeeer!" Great vlog.
I hope those under 30 are doing this homework so sistas can be free from the ignorance! We need more of these videos!
They played into those roles for many seasons. Choosing to perpetuate the stereotype.
I looooooove me some NOVA!🥰 Also…. I absolutely love how you unpacked this. You have me looking at myself, lovingly. And I believe that you have expressed what I’ve been living. I had decided to opt out of the expectations of the big, darkskinned , girl/daughter/sister/friend/lover/etc. I’m fatigued of the shortsightedness… and then it’s beacons of light like your page that reaffirms my decision to live sovereign.
Damn, this is a good ass video
Amen to that
I came across your video after some online bullying and searching for something good and fulfilling to watch. I noticed you are almost at your 1k followers with amazing content, so I had to subscribe, and I hope you get there this month! You're on your way sis!!
I am dark brown but as soon as I hit 35 I can't help but love love my full melatonin sisters. The soul power is stronger.
This was so well done. I especially appreciate the Toni Childs love. She was the prototype.
Ruby was hot, beautiful and stunning!
Sexy and gorgeous too
There are some tv shows that I used to like watching for example "Uncle Buck, Let's Stay Together, For Better or Worse, Black Lightning, The Bernie Mac Show, Everybody Hates Chris, Moesha, Eve, The Game, House of Payne, Meet the Browns, Malcom & Eddie Show, The Tracey Morgan Show, Half & Half, One on One, Love That Girl and Second Generation Wayans Show." Which, I believe all had positive images of back women.
I know you said some, but have you seen All in the Family and Lincoln Heights?
@@OReily08080 I don't believe so, but I will check it out! Thanks for the info!
You did such a an amazing job with this!!❤️❤️ Thank you so much!!
I just found your channel! This is a great video! I love that you mentioned the tropes associated with dark skinned black women in 90s black TV, something I noticed too now that I'm an adult.
me thinking about molly from insecure..... sthappp. i like that issa shows that molly has layers and why she is the way she is
As for the "Trope" thing, you can go way back to the 1970's, where you had 'Bern Nadette Stanis' playing "Thelma" from Good Times. As far as attitude goes, an older version would also be 'Lawanda Page' as "Aunt Esther". As for the "Toni" character, I thought you would've chosen 'Golden Brooks's' "Maya".
WM are noticing what the BM have been "discarding" and WM are swapping us up (after we heal and date from a place of wholeness, of course). Giving us a life where we can rest, go on trips, live joyfully and be feminine as we want (not be told to "march" or work like a man), and enjoy our African features in a positive, loving way. It's romantic and a blessing.
lol sorry to bust your bubble, but white men as a collective wont ever make black women more desirable in various media like movies, videoclips etc. It goes against their own agenda, black people, ( in specific black women) cannot rely on white media to portray us as wholesome people.
Plz what is this nonsense
@@MichouThe Penny Penny was talking about real life, not the media. I agree with you on that point though. WM know better than to exalt other races of women in the media even if in real life they do (ie with Asian women in particular).
I’m loving this video soooooooooo much! You are very talented 😘
Wow! This was different, very refreshing channel. Love the narrator calming voice😍😍 so therapeutic✨ could listen to it all day.Seems we got a long way to go, I'm a proud dark skin female😎.
extremely informative, why is this only being talked about among smaller channels, I'm now understanding the complaint that "Left tube is too white", I've been watching Left channels for the last 5 years and all the stuff that you, FD Signifier, etc talk about is news to me. thank you and keep up the good work
So well said… I learned a lot. Thank you!! And your voice is BEAUTIFUL!!
Thank you, that was very healing
Great video. I agree with another commentator who mentioned that many Black writers are responsible for the negative tropes of dark skin Black women (Lee Daniels, Martin Lawrence, Mara Brock Akil, etc). Along with that, this also happens with younger characters. For example, in the animated series the Proud Family, the darkest character is a walking stereotype. And although Diane's only an adolescent on Kenya Barris's Blackish, she's portrayed as a demon seed who is not only feared by her own mother, but practically hates everyone in her family. And she's usually stereotypically sassy and full of attitude. But Yara Shahidi, although older but still a pre-teen at the show's inception, isn't written that way at all. Coincidence?
No coincidence at all.
We also are in fault. We accept people like zendaya as black. Guys i get we have little representation in the media so we cling to mixed women who look nothing like us. I get it. But girls we gotta do better. We have to only accept unapologeticly black women in the black women circle. Our features are valuable and we need to know it. We don't need to identify with zendaya or Alicia keys.
Right, it's nice to embrace them, but man, I was so used to settling for light skin, mix, ambiguous women as the face of black women. I knew they didnt look like me, but I wanted something
However, not all blacks are dark skinned
Some full blacks look biracial
@@kathleenking47 MOST OF YOU don't look biracial,
I'm still never gonna get over my samcedes. Don't really know if she fits in this trope, desirable nonetheless, but there were so many opportunities for her to receive affection and for it to be endgame
I really started seeing all these differences since I started dating my fiancee who is Black and the first Black girl I ever dated. I am Puerto Rican, BTW (we are not interracial, we are more intercultural)
I remember being excited to watch the Flash on cw because I heard the main love interest was a black woman. Then I looked her up and saw that she was a light skin girl with straight hair...
there were a few positive representations of desirable dark-skinned black women on tv. There is Liza Turtle and Ashely Banks. they were not main characters and IDK how well rounded the characters were but I don't remember them being deeply flawed
Child be quiet….
They weren't really dark skin tho...
@@OReily08080 Ashley Banks wasn’t dark skinned?
@@sugarpearl9781 oh im sorry, i was thinking about Hilary
This video is fantastic. Excellent analysis and argumentation.
Just subscribed in the first 10 seconds
imagine that gif of Whitney Houston + Natalie Cole laughing and pointing at each other
Yes sis :)
I love your voice so breath taking
Btw you have a beautiful voice!! I could listen to you for days!
While I agree Journee Smollett is great, I was kinda salty that Ruby was a supporting character when she is just as talented, just as attractive, and could easily have filled that role. But, of course, can a curvy dark skinned woman hold the lead in a show that doesn't revolve around her size, or being the butt of jokes? I guess not yet.
Greetings from The Void! I just discovered your channel. WONDERFUL ! THOUGHT-PROVOKING
I agree 100% I thought it was just me I stop watching movies show the black women all look the same except sitcom the Neighborhood.
Im so glad I just like women. Ethnicity, coulor and all that mean almost nothing to me. I like different things about different groups i guess but ive never been hung up on colour itself.
Beautiful piece. Very well written and delivered!
Excellent! Please let us know when you release your book on the topic, if you have not done so already!
Great analysis!
You make such great points…When you said “Alaskan bull worm” i had to press subscribe lmao 🤣
Couldn't have said it any better thank you girl❤️
15:00 is a whole vibe. RIGHT ON, SIS!!!!!
Interesting Analysis. Appreciate that you provided a desired endgame and didn't stop at Analysis for its own sake.
Idk, but the only time you see dark or brown skinned women in a "normal" light would be in historical fiction movies like The Help or Hidden Figures
So sad and ultimately undefeatable. Who da hell has the lifespan to fight a whole ass archetypal troupe? Not me. 🙁
Well Explained and put together!! 10/10
Happy Halloween!! (though I'm ~3.5 years late, lol). Really liked this video. You got a new subscriber!
Sad but true
Toni Childs was physically and emotionally abused by her alcoholic mum, taunted and ridiculed by the colorists around her, called a gold digger for having the same preferences as Joan, literally likened to a devil several times by her supposed friends, and got blamed for being trapped in marriage by her broke lying husband.
Yet we never once got an episode that explored any the the mental effects this must have had on her, to make her so cold. But they explained Joan's crazy, explained Lynn's leaching, explained Maya's cheating.
I actually really liked bad hair... (its a guilty pleasure)
There was so many characters in the 00s and before, I just don't want to settle. It's tiring when non black women say "well at least you got a Disney princess," just one. "At least there's a black character," and they're usually a stereotype of have no character development
I hit the thumbs up just based off of the disclaimer.
I hope the correlation between colorism and classism gets represented in the mainstream soon
Beautiful. Insightful. Helpful. Thank you
Patricia Hill Collins goes into these "Controlling Images" in Black Feminist Thought. I used that work in my research
This is probably the most comprehensive and strong analysis of colorism in media.
Thank you so much for sharing! I love your content!