I think the Rattan Rangers have been a bit to strong for quite a while now, particularly in field battles and when facing off against new players, I don't want them to be nerfed completely to being useless but in their current state they are ruining field battles! It was mentioned by a few people so I have decided to re-launch my Patreon :) www.patreon.com/evolozgaming
Rattan rangers definitely need a direct nerf, but another good change (and indirect nerf to rattan rangers and namkhans) would be that the healing skill when pressing h stops bleeding/poisoning and not the other way around
Rattans are way too OP for many reasons, the main one is that they are far too resistant to what should counter them eg ranged infantry units particularly muskets and crossbows. They have too much HP for a skirmish cav unit for starters, and their piercing defence is almost as high as monastic knights ffs, in addition to that that have like 30% reduced ranged damage taken??? They are literally more resistant to ranged damage than frickin monastic knights and by quite a bit, add to that their squad size is 21??? why??? Id keep the damage on them, maybe a tiny nerf to accuracy enough at least that they cant snipe moving heroes in seconds, but id reduce their squad size to 18, their max piercing defence to 550 and remove their ranged damage reduction abilities. This is why they are OP, not necessarily that they deal too much damage, but that they dont have any downside for it. High damage should correspond with high risk , any other game with skirmish cavalry units they are countered by ground based archers purely because the archer units typically have a much higher unit size, you sacrifice volume for mobility. But the Rattans with their melee cav levels of defence and hp and squad size EVEN HIGHER THAN MUSKET UNITS can just walk up to ranged infantry units and slaughter them. I dont want them nerfed beyond use but if you get caught out by another ranged unit with them you should pay the price, just now they are just waay too damh resistant to the form of damage they should be most vulnerable to
Come on man, they have 'Rattan Armour'. As they describe in game: "Cheap, lightweight and resistant to slashing". Yeah... They get all that piercing and ranged defence because they wear a wooden armor, KINDA decent, against swords... Yes, tribal technology, dont judge them. :) Wood > metal xDDD PS: hm, i was just checking, seems like all rattan units have close to 600 Piercing defence, base. Heck 530 on rattan vipers. WTF
That accuracy is bonkers! The unit needs more counters. I wonder if removing their charge, often used to get them out of danger, would help balance them by making them a) more catchable, and b) less able to stomp archers.
Using these guys as auxiliaries at the moment and they tear through enemies super easily. Got like 80 kills just casually passing by enemy infantry. Got me interested in other mounted archers and I noticed there is basically 0 information on the Khorchins, which are to my knowledge the only lower tier alternative to these rangers. Any thoughts on Khorchins? Or why nobody seems to even acknowledge their existence?
Generally speaking the rattans are the only decent mounted range unit, not spent much time playing my korchins but they aren't very highly rated unfortunately
The final veterancy node in the top tree is sooo incredibly important, especially in Rattan Rangers vs Rattan Rangers combat. If the enemy unit takes 20% reduced ranged damage and your unit does not, do not even try to fight them. Ever since I got that node unlocked they suddenly felt much stronger than just 1 level before. I sadly went the bottom line first to unlock the charge - big mistake in my opinion. Rush the top line! Also: Rattan units are not just "Not fireproof" they actually take lots of bonus fire damage. So incendiary archers and Rattan Marksmen (level 16, fire arrow unlocked) counter Rangers very effectively. Especially the Rattan Marksmen as their fire arrows are not locked behind a cooldown but are permanently spit out. *People who think Rattan Rangers are fine are the same people that abused Iron Reapers back when they killed 100+ units with a single charge and were basically unkillable. Even with the nerfs IR received they are still powerful, so just imagine what they were like before*
It is stupid that if you find them by chance they just kill your horse in less than a second and then if you either run or chace them you are dead either way.
I am very shocked that there are people here comments that Rattan Rangers is not OP. Spot the RR main. How to Balance Nakhams: 1. Give the Bleed skills a duration like the fire arrow skills (eg. Bleed arrow for 10s, CD 60s) and/or 2. Reduce the Bleed stacks (get 15 stacks and you died from full health) There i fix Nakhams. How to Balance Rattan Rangers: 1. Nerf the accuracy. (too accurate for a horse archer, even more accurate than imperial archers)
Yeah I guess it's a bit of a sensitive topic, I kind of get the point that people don't want to see a chain of all their favourite units nerfed but equally when these guys mostly seem to be used against new players something is wrong
Hello there. First of all, I constantly watch your videos show how I should shoot the soldiers. Could you shoot the Iron reapers video for me? I don't know which tree to go from. I apologize if my English was badly spelled. Thanks.
They're a bit OP in regards to their accuracy and armor, but the idea of ranged cav is nothing new. The Bow Cav from the tech tree is the worst of all range cav, then the Khorchin's from Season two and Khevtuul's. Fire Lancer's are more of a shock cav unit than a range unit because their range is garbage and they are meant to charge in with the ability to fire their "guns" That being said i have been playing with the Khevtuul's lately and i have discovered that their range attack is actually an ability. It has a 20 second cool down with a 10 second duration, but what is the most interesting thing is that Khevtuul's don't have ammo. So they can keep harassing the enemy's flank with going back to the supply point. The Ranger's do need a nerf because who ever brings the most of them tends to dominate every battle.
I joined the basic NPC house to learn TW...immediately learned about RRs in field battles. Those and Iron Reapers kind of turned me away at first. I immediately unlocked Incendiary as quick as I could. So satisfying but I think they're stupid (RR). At first started to turn me away from the game now...I watch them burn. Now I have to figure out how to deal with the Reapers (I don't have access to Heroic yet).
is it me, but I feel that the current season feels a bit cheep from creators mostly around the weekly challenges where all the doctrine rewords are only 3 day time on them, same for the ones from the season store where the purple rotation one is only for a day
i dont even care about the doctrines i earn in challenges .... totally worthless for me (all my units have 5 docs on them anyway ... and im not changing anything for a 1-7 day one) .... only shame that we cant resolve the doctrines
ahh the good old days, where everybody complained about rattans and kheshigs... I really liked the game at this time, it felt like a medieval battle, now its more of a congragation of magic spells and units that make no sense at all xd
Currently the problematic units imo are rattan rangers, imp pikes and namkhan archers. Rattan are explained in this vid. Best nerf imo would be to remove the slowing effect and reduce their accuracy. Imp pikes would be pretty bad without the advance but the advance is so poorly designed. It's not nessecarily very op but it isn't fun watching your unit die while being stunlocked and there's generally nothing you can do. A fix would be to make them push units instead of stunning them. Namkhan are just too good for their leadership cost. They 're way better than incendiary for ex but cost 10 leadership less.
I have less of a problem with imp pikes because as you say they aren't so much OP just annoying but they give a good counter to certain units etc. I think for me the main problem with rattans is the fact they are mostly being used in field battles against lower level players, very hard for the new guys to stand a chance against the rattans
They are not overpower against a organize group, only to caught people offguard, nothing more. All other units t3-t4-t5 can kill him, if you play well...
Finally someone who gets it right! I agree. Just because most people have infantry units and at the moment is the ONLY cavalry that has some strength everyone is against the Rattans!
I started playing again earlier this week and i have noticed them and i have no idea who approved this unit.... So the trifecta of health, mobility, and damage is completely busted. Normally you'd get units focussed on one or spread a bit over 2 but the Rattans have all maxed out for some reason. -Health...horse units for some reason already have way too much hp and even if the horse itself is unarmoured the units themselves have great armour. Oh and there is a veterancy bonus that gives 20% ranged dam reduction, which is the only type of damage they really should be able to take if the player is paying attention. And the armour which the tooltip says is good against slash damage is actually great against piercing so ranged damage does even less. -Mobility..It's i believe the fastest unit in the game, and can unlock a charge, and even if there was one that was faster the rangers would kite them for a bit and kill them quickly. -Damage...So they have good damage and great DoT effects. But for some reason the guys on top of a horse with a machine gun crossbow has better accuracy at 50 meters than a longbow has at 20m. How about giving them ironcap archer accuracy. Also their RoF is ridiculous so even a single unit can shoot you five times a second just to stack the DoT effect. So yeah whoever designed and approved this unit probably should not work in unit balance.
I remember the days when they released the rattan units. My first golden era unit were the rattan rangers. Everybody was telling me they are really bad and that every fireproof unit is better. Now everybody hates them and you see them in almost every game. Namkhan archers and Rattan Rangers need a nerf.
Evo love Your videos, but you got it all wrong mate. Its not bleed dmg, but poison. You can counter rattans with selemchid, kheshigs, all mele cav as its faster than rattans. Just charge them and pres v on top of them or if You miss, they will cacht them and destroy. Not to mention archers behind shields/pikes. The problem with rattans is that people play field battles with only inf and then complain. Besides You speak that they are op and win games, but yet you lose rattans in like 3sec and you lost the game...
you can only kill rangers if the player controlling them is stupid or messed up. i have my rangers almost max leveled and i destroy every game with them. also, if you kept watching the video you would hear evo say he won the game barely. however, win or lose, it's a team game and one player can't always make the game-changing difference.
I have my rattans maxed out and the diference in speed vs melee cav is huge, 10 speed vs 12,5 off kheshigs/selemchid. The range on rattans is short and you can close the gap by charging. Do not get me wrong rattans are strong but when the Hero is alone or ahead of his squad/teammates. Besides, this kind of videos will be obsolete, at the time that pavisse crossbowmen and new pikes arrive, as they will melt all the cav from the fields.
Some fair points and yes I guess you can be caught by some of the other cav units. I think a good chunk of the problem stems from the fact often very veteran/ experienced players are using these in field battles against often much newer or lower level players. As a community we don't have a huge playerbase and we really can't afford to be driving new players away by just stomping on them as soon as they join the game. (which is why I said I was fine with Rattans in siege battles, much more balanced) So maybe as much a matchmaking issues but with current queue times for field battles no easy solution there
Maybe make it so the 'leadership' cost is so high you can only bring 1 unit if you pick these. And/Or only low tier like woodcutters to fill up your other slots. I mean there is a reason in the medival era The kings had alot of cheap soldiers but not that many heavy cavalry. ;-) So maybe make the nerfs take a realistic approach?
They can be pretty challenging to fight against. In many ways I actually have less of a problem with them in free battles as at least they get matched up against other high tier units. I find field battles worst because it's mostly high levelled players using them against new or low level players who really don't stand much of a chance against these guys
Aaaaaaand now they're worthless... Am I doing something wrong, or are they just way weaker this patch? Max amount of kills ive managed to get with these guys is around 30, which is extremely low considering how expensive they are as a golden unit.
To answer your question, if there is something wrong you are doing. Are you maybe shooting shields? Anything with over 800 armor and you are dealing about 60-75% less dmg. Idk, i suck at this game, and i hate the dsync on it xD but watching is fun.
only now making a vid bout this....bit late lol but maybe something wil lget done. But we have a dev quoted as saying they are "high skill level and very fragile, so they are in good spot"
mounted archers are meant to be used in bulk. Can you imagine 3 mounted units working together? A single one working on it's own can't really accomplish anything other then harassment. if they have a nerf it should be focused around making them stronger together and weaker alone. maybe make it so that mounted cav archer can't capture points? Make them trash in urban. and them strong in plains and desert.
they defently need nerf, this should be a strategic game, not a game that u just round arround with your horse killing everyone i like field battle but i stoped to playet cuz rattan raggers
That is one weak point in this game I think all units should be useful within there tier ,and that is not the case would make the game better has you would have more options and more army builds has it is now even with the small amount of units there is to choose from and even a smaller amount people can bring and be relevant. Why create units and have them in the unit tree and make only a handful worth it? not sure what the devs are thinking with this. Nice video we need more videos like this to bring some of the lesser units up to standard and some of the over performing units down a bit to have a better unit tree and more option.
Ratten Rangers are the most skilless units Just move with F1 or X and watch dmg you dont need to use a charge with sense but it's ok... easier to get than other t5 and easier to play top for newer t5 player
Yeah as mentioned in the video they are fine in sieges and stuff when they come up against equal tier troops but generally thats not where they are being used. They are mostly being used against low tier and low level players in field battles and just driving new players away from the game because they are being stomped over and over
Hi Evo. I really love your videos, but honestly not this one. Yes, you killed 155 units in a game that you weren't playing with a team mentality, you just rode around killing 2-3 star infantry and archer units, while your team lost the game. I have the Rattan Rangers at lvl 30 and its true that sometimes they do feel overpowered, just as your video shows. But sometimes they feel underpowered for a 5 star - 350 leadership unit. Please post a video of your rattan rangers when: - You need to deal by fire archers in order for your team to win. - You need to deal with ANY other 5 star cavalry in order for your team to win. - You need to hold or conquer a position against high tier shielded infantry in order for your team to win. Not to mention when you are caught off guard by some imperial pikemen, halabardiers, etc. Running around slaughtering low tier units do happens and you get those results. The scenarios I have posted do happen as well and the results are quite different. And my scenarios are much more team based that the one you posted. This is a team game, it's not designed for you to ride around killilng stuff while your team loses the game.
Some fair points, although in part a lot of what I was doing was to prove a point and is often what happens in field battles, in my experience it's just very rare to find high tier shield units etc in field battles (yes in sieges but as said in the video I don't have a problem with them in sieges) generally speaking it tends to be low level players in field battles coming up against very high level players who just ride around griefing them and we don't really have a sufficient playerbase to be driving away new players before they really get a chance to enjoy the game. Perhaps as much of a matchmaking issue as anything but with queue times for field battles already pretty long its not an easy one to solve. But with the situation right now we are driving new players away by just stomping on them in fields with rattans. p.s. I did actually win that game in the end..just :)
@@EvoLozGaming That's a good point indeed. I started playing the game in october and some people were already leveling their Iron Reapers against my non-elite pike militia, it was really frustrating. I'm ok if they nerf the Rangers in order not to scare new players away, I enjoy infantry much more anyway. Back to liking your videos :) p.s. But unless you won by attrition of the enemy (they ran out of troops? that's rare in field battles), you have to admit it's not you most tactical game out there ;)
They are just broken. Super accuracy + slow = 60 shots a second hitting all the time They should remove that freaking poison, beside the fact dots need a rework in general
dat crosbows will leave the tercio arquebusiers useless and will destroy imperial shields and pikes. that will tear this meta apart after all they have a blunt dmg machinegun.
Great video but I have to disagree at this time. I think that the developers are not balancing the game either way, they don't seem to make up their minds. Firstly, they destroy all the proper cavalry, which let me remind you in real life it REALLY was the heaviest unit at war, and in game they cost loads of honour but most importantly time to level them up to level 30! Then they through a reset token, really? Secondly, I understand that the accuracy is extreme but imagine if you arrive at the flag and there is a rippers unit, would you have many chances against them with any other unit? Buffing the infantry so much is also VERY wrong in my opinion.
@@pandasnusnulover3734 I agree, nerf them then but not 80%! Do it to 50%, and I am with you. My charge with level 30 Hussars and my mate's level 30 Monastic killed only 16 altogether. Do you really think this is fair or realistic?
a way to nerf cavalry without weakening them too much is by reducing their acceleration and turning speed, making them too clunky to escape every time and move in tight situations. but for the rattan is even needed a firing accuracy and armor penetration reduction (i personally think that cavalry should dominate in field battle).
yep pretty much agree, and yeah I think cav should be more dominant in field battles but also newer players need to be able to stand a chance and at the moment they are just being destroyed everytime. Maybe also a matchmaking issue
not all cav need nerf atm, they just got hit hard with the nerf bat, rattan rangers unfortunately barely affetced by these nerfs as they dont rely on charge
Nerf their speed, make the reload longer and reduce accuracy. The penetration reduction is a good idea also. The fire rate on all ranged units is redonkulous really.
Ur playing them wrong then, bc of their speed and burst dmg any fight they take should always be on ur terms. U lost them bc u stayed stationary long enough for fecking fire archers to position and shoot them down lol
@@Amin-rj9bj I didn't say "I get utterly destroyed on fire archers" I know how to control rattans. I said fire archers destroy rattans on 1v1, you can go ahead and try, you can run around archers or charge directly, the moment 1 fire arrow hits a ranger it is dead. The only way to destroy is baiting them to start fire arrows and attack when it is cooldown and even with that you would use a good amount of your rattan while trying to bait.
Evo, I really think this is one of the worst videos you made. Why rattan rangers are overpowered..... showcases tier 5 units against a ton of 3 star and below units. So they shouldnt win against those!? Try to do this against spear sergeants, imperial shields, any high tier musket, javelins, archers behind a shield, firearchers and such, tier 5 cavalry, reapers, Any unit on their tier in a 1vs1 situation. They dont even do that well against tier 4 units and might even lose, units let alone tier 5. Its cavalry open fields are their strenght and with that said you only showed perfect scenarios for your rangers to perform in. But hey I guess like because they chew through tier 3 units and below they are clearly overpowered.
you do make a good point, i dont want rattans nerfed as well because where will it end? ... nerfing any t5 unit? reapers next? tercs? any heavy cav unit? ...also for every player bringing a t5 unit on defence .. there is an attacker that brings the same unit .... t5 unit arent the end of the line just for show .. .you earned the right to use a strong unit through all the honour you gathered, same goes for everyone else. I've seen some players waste rattans, and others thrive... in the end the unit is as good as the player "wielding"the unit/weapon
Thats the point and that is why they nerfed cav in general. Have you been in TW this past week? There are just ranger teams running around taking villages nonstop and now not even t5 cav can stop them
Firstly, I appreciate the honest feedback. I think the bulk of my argument is not that against t5 units rattans are amazing, because as you say they are not (which is why I said they are fine in siege battles where they come up against higher tiers) but generally thats not where they are being used. Instead they are coming up against low tier, low level players where we see high level players with rattans stomping them over and over. I can pick a field battle at almost any point and can stomp new players, very rarely do I see imperial shields, very rarely does anything counter me other than when I screw up (but thats more me being bad than rattans) I just don't think we have enough new players to be driving them away from the game like that and with no one else ever seeming to defend them I feel like I have to stand up for the new guys. It is certainly in part a matchmaking issue (which is something I should have made clearer in the video, but is what I meant with the siege/field comment) but with queue times for fields being long anyway I can't see any easy solution there
@@EvoLozGaming i understand youre point (new players should not be a punching bag).... but NO game is unforgiving for new players unwilling to learn it the hard way.... in the past a new player could go "solo" during matches doing their own thing with relative ease and no fear of being harshly punished for it (i mean walking arround with low lvl units avoiding fighting)... Nowadays they FAST learn to stick to group (as they should ;) ) also SO many older players havent learned that losing troops isnt a bad thing, or hat sacrificing a unit to win the game is a good thing... I rather have new players learn that losing troops isnt a bad thing (or else we got MORE players unwilling to use expensive troops) so i rather have a few new players that have learned the hard lesson of losing troops (and the need to grow, or pick troops smart) then having a few more new players that keep their troops in the back unwilling to use them afraid of steep replenish cost... The game just needs to give new players insentives to stick arround long enough for them to have strong units themselves.... the mercenary (weekly) pick is in that way a genius implementation ... maybe a tweek could be even better... MORE choises of units to pick or a chance to keep a merc unit longer (2-3 weeks so lvling + learning to use units for new players is better)... but in the end ... new player shouldnt be punching bag... but also NOT cuddled to much... its a wargame.. losses are part of it also ... keep up the feedbacks m8 ;) discussions are always a good thing .. respect
Rattan rangers dont need a nerf. They are a gold tier unit on par with other gold tier units. You need to learn how to play against them. The main counters for them are kheshigs/other nimble cav and guns. Properly positioned namkhan /incendiary archers can also take them down. Yes they are strong vs all infantry but that is what they were designed for.
There are no nimble cavs, the rat rangers are the fastest cav at speed 10. All Golden Era Cav are 7.5 and below. Khesigs are still slower than Rat rangers (9.5 vs 10). The only unit that has the same speed is the Khevtuul which is also a 10, but less likely to survive given its not a 5-star unit. The reality is a cav unit with a repeating crossbow should not have pinpoint accuracy when traveling at the speed that it does.
It's a fair point, in part that was why I said I don't really have a problem with them in Siege battles so much because as you say when you throw them against other tier 5 units they are much more on par. But the vast majority of people who use them just use them for field battles and are getting put against low level new players where the rattans just excel and the newer players just don't stand a chance
Rattans can easily be chased down by kheshigs. This is because rattans cant shoot directly behind them. To counter rattans take kheshigs and go straight at the rattans wait until rattans charge away then counter with a charge to cut them off. Or if the hold charge you run them off. Either way you have successfully taken them out of the game using tactics. Another point: it would be a mistake to change game mechanics based on a low player base. Rather, you improve game mechanics to attract a larger player base. AkA improve game physics, fix glitches etc.
I think the Rattan Rangers have been a bit to strong for quite a while now, particularly in field battles and when facing off against new players, I don't want them to be nerfed completely to being useless but in their current state they are ruining field battles!
It was mentioned by a few people so I have decided to re-launch my Patreon :) www.patreon.com/evolozgaming
Rattan rangers definitely need a direct nerf, but another good change (and indirect nerf to rattan rangers and namkhans) would be that the healing skill when pressing h stops bleeding/poisoning and not the other way around
Or when there's bleeding, reduce heal duration by 3-4 seconds to simulate bandaging of wound?
Its a tier 5 unit
Rattans are way too OP for many reasons, the main one is that they are far too resistant to what should counter them eg ranged infantry units particularly muskets and crossbows. They have too much HP for a skirmish cav unit for starters, and their piercing defence is almost as high as monastic knights ffs, in addition to that that have like 30% reduced ranged damage taken??? They are literally more resistant to ranged damage than frickin monastic knights and by quite a bit, add to that their squad size is 21??? why???
Id keep the damage on them, maybe a tiny nerf to accuracy enough at least that they cant snipe moving heroes in seconds, but id reduce their squad size to 18, their max piercing defence to 550 and remove their ranged damage reduction abilities.
This is why they are OP, not necessarily that they deal too much damage, but that they dont have any downside for it. High damage should correspond with high risk , any other game with skirmish cavalry units they are countered by ground based archers purely because the archer units typically have a much higher unit size, you sacrifice volume for mobility.
But the Rattans with their melee cav levels of defence and hp and squad size EVEN HIGHER THAN MUSKET UNITS can just walk up to ranged infantry units and slaughter them.
I dont want them nerfed beyond use but if you get caught out by another ranged unit with them you should pay the price, just now they are just waay too damh resistant to the form of damage they should be most vulnerable to
Come on man, they have 'Rattan Armour'.
As they describe in game: "Cheap, lightweight and resistant to slashing".
Yeah... They get all that piercing and ranged defence because they wear a wooden armor, KINDA decent, against swords...
Yes, tribal technology, dont judge them. :)
Wood > metal
xDDD
PS: hm, i was just checking, seems like all rattan units have close to 600 Piercing defence, base. Heck 530 on rattan vipers. WTF
That accuracy is bonkers! The unit needs more counters. I wonder if removing their charge, often used to get them out of danger, would help balance them by making them a) more catchable, and b) less able to stomp archers.
What a strange meta, looking at this in 2022
haha yeah it's crazy how much the game has changed
@@EvoLozGaming those rattan Rangers looked like they were darn fun to use! Kind of sad I missed out on that.
Hi Evo ..it looks like you have 2 lots of RR's ? is that right?
Using these guys as auxiliaries at the moment and they tear through enemies super easily. Got like 80 kills just casually passing by enemy infantry. Got me interested in other mounted archers and I noticed there is basically 0 information on the Khorchins, which are to my knowledge the only lower tier alternative to these rangers. Any thoughts on Khorchins? Or why nobody seems to even acknowledge their existence?
Generally speaking the rattans are the only decent mounted range unit, not spent much time playing my korchins but they aren't very highly rated unfortunately
@@EvoLozGaming Thanks. Just got the gold unit box from the main quest. Think I'll get these!
So glad you did a video on it. Now they have to react.
Haha I think maybe you overestimate my influence on them :)
@@EvoLozGaming I saw you in a youtube ad for them! Surely they watch your stuff. I hope
The final veterancy node in the top tree is sooo incredibly important, especially in Rattan Rangers vs Rattan Rangers combat. If the enemy unit takes 20% reduced ranged damage and your unit does not, do not even try to fight them. Ever since I got that node unlocked they suddenly felt much stronger than just 1 level before. I sadly went the bottom line first to unlock the charge - big mistake in my opinion. Rush the top line!
Also: Rattan units are not just "Not fireproof" they actually take lots of bonus fire damage. So incendiary archers and Rattan Marksmen (level 16, fire arrow unlocked) counter Rangers very effectively. Especially the Rattan Marksmen as their fire arrows are not locked behind a cooldown but are permanently spit out.
*People who think Rattan Rangers are fine are the same people that abused Iron Reapers back when they killed 100+ units with a single charge and were basically unkillable. Even with the nerfs IR received they are still powerful, so just imagine what they were like before*
It is stupid that if you find them by chance they just kill your horse in less than a second and then if you either run or chace them you are dead either way.
removing the wedge formation would do wonders
A good suggestion!
I am very shocked that there are people here comments that Rattan Rangers is not OP.
Spot the RR main.
How to Balance Nakhams:
1. Give the Bleed skills a duration like the fire arrow skills (eg. Bleed arrow for 10s, CD 60s)
and/or
2. Reduce the Bleed stacks (get 15 stacks and you died from full health)
There i fix Nakhams.
How to Balance Rattan Rangers:
1. Nerf the accuracy. (too accurate for a horse archer, even more accurate than imperial archers)
Yeah I guess it's a bit of a sensitive topic, I kind of get the point that people don't want to see a chain of all their favourite units nerfed but equally when these guys mostly seem to be used against new players something is wrong
Its a tier 5 unit, youre suppose to get the best performance out of them
Hello there. First of all, I constantly watch your videos show how I should shoot the soldiers. Could you shoot the Iron reapers video for me? I don't know which tree to go from. I apologize if my English was badly spelled. Thanks.
Glad to hear you enjoy the videos, Have got plans for an iron reapers video but it is still quite a way off yet :) maybe in a few weeks
@@EvoLozGaming Thanks :)
I don’t know how to play aggressive with the poleaxe
They're a bit OP in regards to their accuracy and armor, but the idea of ranged cav is nothing new. The Bow Cav from the tech tree is the worst of all range cav, then the Khorchin's from Season two and Khevtuul's. Fire Lancer's are more of a shock cav unit than a range unit because their range is garbage and they are meant to charge in with the ability to fire their "guns"
That being said i have been playing with the Khevtuul's lately and i have discovered that their range attack is actually an ability. It has a 20 second cool down with a 10 second duration, but what is the most interesting thing is that Khevtuul's don't have ammo. So they can keep harassing the enemy's flank with going back to the supply point.
The Ranger's do need a nerf because who ever brings the most of them tends to dominate every battle.
Such Awesome vids you introduced me to Conqueror's Blade i thank you!!!
Thanks dude :D
I joined the basic NPC house to learn TW...immediately learned about RRs in field battles. Those and Iron Reapers kind of turned me away at first. I immediately unlocked Incendiary as quick as I could. So satisfying but I think they're stupid (RR). At first started to turn me away from the game now...I watch them burn.
Now I have to figure out how to deal with the Reapers (I don't have access to Heroic yet).
Yeah they can be super brutal in field battles! Iron reapers are tough to deal with when you have lower tier units but they do get easier later on :)
@@EvoLozGaming What would you recommend against Reapers so I am prepared to invest in those units? I like to counter things. >:)
nice vid man, u have them with a skin?
So could anyone tell me if the rattan rangers have been nerfed after this video?
what should my first heroic era unit be?
I am confused on what to get
Something like Spear Sergeants would be a great choice
Discussion closed right in the title
is it me, but I feel that the current season feels a bit cheep from creators mostly around the weekly challenges where all the doctrine rewords are only 3 day time on them, same for the ones from the season store where the purple rotation one is only for a day
i dont even care about the doctrines i earn in challenges .... totally worthless for me (all my units have 5 docs on them anyway ... and im not changing anything for a 1-7 day one) .... only shame that we cant resolve the doctrines
hey your using the maul and not the healberd ????
Yeah just trying out the maul and getting familiar with it for an upcoming video :)
@@EvoLozGaming good some times you just got to mix up your weapon to keep it intresting :)
I'm just about to get rattan rangers, not a good time for a nerf. I have the machine pistol now.
I don't think there are any plans for a nerf or anything just my own thoughts :) I think your rattans are safe
now field battle is unplayable until they nerf rattan ranger. And no wonder why field battle has less popularity
Keep up the good work 🤟🏻
Thanks dude :)
Love the videos man and I’m hoping you can do a video on the fire lancer cavalry as I’m not sure if they are worth it or not but keep the good work up
Is men at arms good ?
No
the new condettieri guards are the best. way better than men at arms for sure
Yeah they aren't amazing, best to conderrieri guard
enemy hero has a look, instantly regrets it
Keep up the great content!
Thanks :)
ahh the good old days, where everybody complained about rattans and kheshigs... I really liked the game at this time, it felt like a medieval battle, now its more of a congragation of magic spells and units that make no sense at all xd
Currently the problematic units imo are rattan rangers, imp pikes and namkhan archers. Rattan are explained in this vid. Best nerf imo would be to remove the slowing effect and reduce their accuracy.
Imp pikes would be pretty bad without the advance but the advance is so poorly designed. It's not nessecarily very op but it isn't fun watching your unit die while being stunlocked and there's generally nothing you can do. A fix would be to make them push units instead of stunning them.
Namkhan are just too good for their leadership cost. They 're way better than incendiary for ex but cost 10 leadership less.
I have less of a problem with imp pikes because as you say they aren't so much OP just annoying but they give a good counter to certain units etc. I think for me the main problem with rattans is the fact they are mostly being used in field battles against lower level players, very hard for the new guys to stand a chance against the rattans
They are not overpower against a organize group, only to caught people offguard, nothing more. All other units t3-t4-t5 can kill him, if you play well...
You guys want everything nerf if you get kill... Its so
ridiculously
I agree Bravo. You dont even need gold tier units to counter Rattans. Just skillful positioning and map awareness
Finally someone who gets it right! I agree. Just because most people have infantry units and at the moment is the ONLY cavalry that has some strength everyone is against the Rattans!
I say give them enough ammo equivalent to 2 magazines for their crossbow.
I started playing again earlier this week and i have noticed them and i have no idea who approved this unit....
So the trifecta of health, mobility, and damage is completely busted. Normally you'd get units focussed on one or spread a bit over 2 but the Rattans have all maxed out for some reason.
-Health...horse units for some reason already have way too much hp and even if the horse itself is unarmoured the units themselves have great armour. Oh and there is a veterancy bonus that gives 20% ranged dam reduction, which is the only type of damage they really should be able to take if the player is paying attention. And the armour which the tooltip says is good against slash damage is actually great against piercing so ranged damage does even less.
-Mobility..It's i believe the fastest unit in the game, and can unlock a charge, and even if there was one that was faster the rangers would kite them for a bit and kill them quickly.
-Damage...So they have good damage and great DoT effects. But for some reason the guys on top of a horse with a machine gun crossbow has better accuracy at 50 meters than a longbow has at 20m. How about giving them ironcap archer accuracy. Also their RoF is ridiculous so even a single unit can shoot you five times a second just to stack the DoT effect.
So yeah whoever designed and approved this unit probably should not work in unit balance.
I remember the days when they released the rattan units. My first golden era unit were the rattan rangers. Everybody was telling me they are really bad and that every fireproof unit is better. Now everybody hates them and you see them in almost every game.
Namkhan archers and Rattan Rangers need a nerf.
Evo love Your videos, but you got it all wrong mate. Its not bleed dmg, but poison.
You can counter rattans with selemchid, kheshigs, all mele cav as its faster than rattans. Just charge them and pres v on top of them or if You miss, they will cacht them and destroy. Not to mention archers behind shields/pikes. The problem with rattans is that people play field battles with only inf and then complain. Besides You speak that they are op and win games, but yet you lose rattans in like 3sec and you lost the game...
you can only kill rangers if the player controlling them is stupid or messed up. i have my rangers almost max leveled and i destroy every game with them. also, if you kept watching the video you would hear evo say he won the game barely. however, win or lose, it's a team game and one player can't always make the game-changing difference.
I have my rattans maxed out and the diference in speed vs melee cav is huge, 10 speed vs 12,5 off kheshigs/selemchid. The range on rattans is short and you can close the gap by charging.
Do not get me wrong rattans are strong but when the Hero is alone or ahead of his squad/teammates.
Besides, this kind of videos will be obsolete, at the time that pavisse crossbowmen and new pikes arrive, as they will melt all the cav from the fields.
Thank you, agree with this.
Some fair points and yes I guess you can be caught by some of the other cav units. I think a good chunk of the problem stems from the fact often very veteran/ experienced players are using these in field battles against often much newer or lower level players. As a community we don't have a huge playerbase and we really can't afford to be driving new players away by just stomping on them as soon as they join the game. (which is why I said I was fine with Rattans in siege battles, much more balanced) So maybe as much a matchmaking issues but with current queue times for field battles no easy solution there
Rattan rangers are like that guy in prison shower
Maybe make it so the 'leadership' cost is so high you can only bring 1 unit if you pick these. And/Or only low tier like woodcutters to fill up your other slots.
I mean there is a reason in the medival era The kings had alot of cheap soldiers but not that many heavy cavalry. ;-) So maybe make the nerfs take a realistic approach?
Pain in the b***s, free battles in large maps just forget strategy deploy some Rattan, run in circles and congrats you won
They can be pretty challenging to fight against. In many ways I actually have less of a problem with them in free battles as at least they get matched up against other high tier units. I find field battles worst because it's mostly high levelled players using them against new or low level players who really don't stand much of a chance against these guys
Aaaaaaand now they're worthless... Am I doing something wrong, or are they just way weaker this patch? Max amount of kills ive managed to get with these guys is around 30, which is extremely low considering how expensive they are as a golden unit.
Yeah they seem to have gone the other way recently, I think the firing mechanics have been slightly bugged
To answer your question, if there is something wrong you are doing. Are you maybe shooting shields?
Anything with over 800 armor and you are dealing about 60-75% less dmg.
Idk, i suck at this game, and i hate the dsync on it xD but watching is fun.
only now making a vid bout this....bit late lol but maybe something wil lget done. But we have a dev quoted as saying they are "high skill level and very fragile, so they are in good spot"
What house are you in? And btw great vid. :)
No TWA gameplay yet? Tomorrow is the last day of the alpha test
Got some gameplay recorded from today :) Hopefully video in a day or two :D
@@EvoLozGaming brilliant :D
mounted archers are meant to be used in bulk. Can you imagine 3 mounted units working together?
A single one working on it's own can't really accomplish anything other then harassment.
if they have a nerf it should be focused around making them stronger together and weaker alone. maybe make it so that mounted cav archer can't capture points?
Make them trash in urban. and them strong in plains and desert.
they defently need nerf, this should be a strategic game, not a game that u just round arround with your horse killing everyone
i like field battle but i stoped to playet cuz rattan raggers
i never liked fieldbattles... but havent done a fieldbattle in 3 months now becaus of the amount of rattans you see nowadays
Then use strategy to kill them, its so easy to do so with a team
U want strategy game, then nerf heroes too, too similiar to dynasty warriors atm
"they burn quite nicely" hahahaha ;) yep ... fire archers vs prefecture archers is finally settled
That is one weak point in this game I think all units should be useful within there tier ,and that is not the case would make the game better has you would have more options and more army builds has it is now even with the small amount of units there is to choose from and even a smaller amount people can bring and be relevant. Why create units and have them in the unit tree and make only a handful worth it? not sure what the devs are thinking with this. Nice video we need more videos like this to bring some of the lesser units up to standard and some of the over performing units down a bit to have a better unit tree and more option.
lol you should level up the rattan during s2 bro. The rattan is nerfed in s3, the rate of attack is decreased, though the patch note didn’t say it
But they are still op af
Yeah I do need to level them a bit more, just so many units I want to get levelled haha :)
Ratten Rangers are the most skilless units Just move with F1 or X and watch dmg you dont need to use a charge with sense
but it's ok... easier to get than other t5 and easier to play
top for newer t5 player
They are not overpowered. Against newbies maybe, but everything in t4 and t5 is OP against newbies with t1 and t2 units.
They are op against light/medium armored units and especially heros. It doesn't really matter what lvl you are.
They are definitely op
Yeah as mentioned in the video they are fine in sieges and stuff when they come up against equal tier troops but generally thats not where they are being used. They are mostly being used against low tier and low level players in field battles and just driving new players away from the game because they are being stomped over and over
Hi Evo. I really love your videos, but honestly not this one. Yes, you killed 155 units in a game that you weren't playing with a team mentality, you just rode around killing 2-3 star infantry and archer units, while your team lost the game.
I have the Rattan Rangers at lvl 30 and its true that sometimes they do feel overpowered, just as your video shows. But sometimes they feel underpowered for a 5 star - 350 leadership unit. Please post a video of your rattan rangers when:
- You need to deal by fire archers in order for your team to win.
- You need to deal with ANY other 5 star cavalry in order for your team to win.
- You need to hold or conquer a position against high tier shielded infantry in order for your team to win.
Not to mention when you are caught off guard by some imperial pikemen, halabardiers, etc.
Running around slaughtering low tier units do happens and you get those results. The scenarios I have posted do happen as well and the results are quite different. And my scenarios are much more team based that the one you posted. This is a team game, it's not designed for you to ride around killilng stuff while your team loses the game.
Some fair points, although in part a lot of what I was doing was to prove a point and is often what happens in field battles, in my experience it's just very rare to find high tier shield units etc in field battles (yes in sieges but as said in the video I don't have a problem with them in sieges) generally speaking it tends to be low level players in field battles coming up against very high level players who just ride around griefing them and we don't really have a sufficient playerbase to be driving away new players before they really get a chance to enjoy the game. Perhaps as much of a matchmaking issue as anything but with queue times for field battles already pretty long its not an easy one to solve. But with the situation right now we are driving new players away by just stomping on them in fields with rattans.
p.s. I did actually win that game in the end..just :)
@@EvoLozGaming That's a good point indeed. I started playing the game in october and some people were already leveling their Iron Reapers against my non-elite pike militia, it was really frustrating. I'm ok if they nerf the Rangers in order not to scare new players away, I enjoy infantry much more anyway. Back to liking your videos :)
p.s. But unless you won by attrition of the enemy (they ran out of troops? that's rare in field battles), you have to admit it's not you most tactical game out there ;)
@@eduardopena7394 that I will admit not exactly my most tactical game :P
They are just broken.
Super accuracy + slow = 60 shots a second hitting all the time
They should remove that freaking poison, beside the fact dots need a rework in general
Make them 600 leadership...
This game is so underrated.
It sure is :-D
Agreed with nerf suggested. Maxed out pimped out lvl. 30 rangers here
Can't w8 to get free crossbows to demolish rattans
dat crosbows will leave the tercio arquebusiers useless and will destroy imperial shields and pikes. that will tear this meta apart
after all they have a blunt dmg machinegun.
wdym nerf rattan rangers they are T5 not t3 or t4 cav lmao
Great video but I have to disagree at this time. I think that the developers are not balancing the game either way, they don't seem to make up their minds. Firstly, they destroy all the proper cavalry, which let me remind you in real life it REALLY was the heaviest unit at war, and in game they cost loads of honour but most importantly time to level them up to level 30! Then they through a reset token, really? Secondly, I understand that the accuracy is extreme but imagine if you arrive at the flag and there is a rippers unit, would you have many chances against them with any other unit? Buffing the infantry so much is also VERY wrong in my opinion.
May i introduce you to firearm infantry to deal with reapers?
It’s Conquerors Blade, hense the name of the game? Not a game for OP cav that couldn’t be stopped
@@nitrozeus951 no need, I've been playing this game since day one. Maybe I will clarify for you: they are beast, that's the point.
@@pandasnusnulover3734 I agree, nerf them then but not 80%! Do it to 50%, and I am with you. My charge with level 30 Hussars and my mate's level 30 Monastic killed only 16 altogether. Do you really think this is fair or realistic?
a way to nerf cavalry without weakening them too much is by reducing their acceleration and turning speed, making them too clunky to escape every time and move in tight situations. but for the rattan is even needed a firing accuracy and armor penetration reduction (i personally think that cavalry should dominate in field battle).
yep pretty much agree, and yeah I think cav should be more dominant in field battles but also newer players need to be able to stand a chance and at the moment they are just being destroyed everytime. Maybe also a matchmaking issue
not all cav need nerf atm, they just got hit hard with the nerf bat, rattan rangers unfortunately barely affetced by these nerfs as they dont rely on charge
Halve their accuracy, that would fix them.
Yeah a think a little accuracy nerf would be a nice balance
Azz tu mo vien?
Please, rattans are a t5 unit that players work hard to get, its normal they tear throught tier 1 and 2 units
i will never blame riot for their champ balance again.. remember the aoe2 cheat car... game balance team on drugs...
Nerf their speed, make the reload longer and reduce accuracy. The penetration reduction is a good idea also. The fire rate on all ranged units is redonkulous really.
Or take them out of the game and just have infantry! Who cares if in real life fights there was cavalry involved?....
So basicallt make them a 4 star?
They can get utterly destroyed easily with T3 fire archers, for about 6-8 seconds all rattans are stun-lock, can't move and just die on point.
Ur playing them wrong then, bc of their speed and burst dmg any fight they take should always be on ur terms. U lost them bc u stayed stationary long enough for fecking fire archers to position and shoot them down lol
Nice lemme waste 190 leadership on a ranged unit that is only effective against 1 t5 unit while all other high tier units are fireproof 👌🙄
@@nitrozeus951 Not everyone uses only T5 fire proof units, fire archers are good against most of non-fireproof units.
@@Amin-rj9bj I didn't say "I get utterly destroyed on fire archers" I know how to control rattans. I said fire archers destroy rattans on 1v1, you can go ahead and try, you can run around archers or charge directly, the moment 1 fire arrow hits a ranger it is dead. The only way to destroy is baiting them to start fire arrows and attack when it is cooldown and even with that you would use a good amount of your rattan while trying to bait.
@@Alikulia fire archers would still be not worth it bc the namkhans are cheaper and and more effective...
Game ruiner unit. Very heavy nerf, even removal needed!
Evo, I really think this is one of the worst videos you made. Why rattan rangers are overpowered..... showcases tier 5 units against a ton of 3 star and below units. So they shouldnt win against those!? Try to do this against spear sergeants, imperial shields, any high tier musket, javelins, archers behind a shield, firearchers and such, tier 5 cavalry, reapers, Any unit on their tier in a 1vs1 situation. They dont even do that well against tier 4 units and might even lose, units let alone tier 5. Its cavalry open fields are their strenght and with that said you only showed perfect scenarios for your rangers to perform in. But hey I guess like because they chew through tier 3 units and below they are clearly overpowered.
you do make a good point, i dont want rattans nerfed as well because where will it end? ... nerfing any t5 unit? reapers next? tercs? any heavy cav unit? ...also for every player bringing a t5 unit on defence .. there is an attacker that brings the same unit .... t5 unit arent the end of the line just for show .. .you earned the right to use a strong unit through all the honour you gathered, same goes for everyone else. I've seen some players waste rattans, and others thrive... in the end the unit is as good as the player "wielding"the unit/weapon
Thats the point and that is why they nerfed cav in general.
Have you been in TW this past week? There are just ranger teams running around taking villages nonstop and now not even t5 cav can stop them
Azrael They are drill wars, of course there’s going to be a spam in T5 cav. Obviously in actual territory wars, there won’t be as much
Firstly, I appreciate the honest feedback. I think the bulk of my argument is not that against t5 units rattans are amazing, because as you say they are not (which is why I said they are fine in siege battles where they come up against higher tiers) but generally thats not where they are being used. Instead they are coming up against low tier, low level players where we see high level players with rattans stomping them over and over. I can pick a field battle at almost any point and can stomp new players, very rarely do I see imperial shields, very rarely does anything counter me other than when I screw up (but thats more me being bad than rattans)
I just don't think we have enough new players to be driving them away from the game like that and with no one else ever seeming to defend them I feel like I have to stand up for the new guys. It is certainly in part a matchmaking issue (which is something I should have made clearer in the video, but is what I meant with the siege/field comment) but with queue times for fields being long anyway I can't see any easy solution there
@@EvoLozGaming i understand youre point (new players should not be a punching bag).... but NO game is unforgiving for new players unwilling to learn it the hard way.... in the past a new player could go "solo" during matches doing their own thing with relative ease and no fear of being harshly punished for it (i mean walking arround with low lvl units avoiding fighting)... Nowadays they FAST learn to stick to group (as they should ;) ) also SO many older players havent learned that losing troops isnt a bad thing, or hat sacrificing a unit to win the game is a good thing... I rather have new players learn that losing troops isnt a bad thing (or else we got MORE players unwilling to use expensive troops) so i rather have a few new players that have learned the hard lesson of losing troops (and the need to grow, or pick troops smart) then having a few more new players that keep their troops in the back unwilling to use them afraid of steep replenish cost... The game just needs to give new players insentives to stick arround long enough for them to have strong units themselves.... the mercenary (weekly) pick is in that way a genius implementation ... maybe a tweek could be even better... MORE choises of units to pick or a chance to keep a merc unit longer (2-3 weeks so lvling + learning to use units for new players is better)...
but in the end ... new player shouldnt be punching bag... but also NOT cuddled to much... its a wargame.. losses are part of it
also ... keep up the feedbacks m8 ;) discussions are always a good thing .. respect
Rattan rangers dont need a nerf. They are a gold tier unit on par with other gold tier units. You need to learn how to play against them. The main counters for them are kheshigs/other nimble cav and guns. Properly positioned namkhan /incendiary archers can also take them down. Yes they are strong vs all infantry but that is what they were designed for.
There are no nimble cavs, the rat rangers are the fastest cav at speed 10. All Golden Era Cav are 7.5 and below. Khesigs are still slower than Rat rangers (9.5 vs 10). The only unit that has the same speed is the Khevtuul which is also a 10, but less likely to survive given its not a 5-star unit.
The reality is a cav unit with a repeating crossbow should not have pinpoint accuracy when traveling at the speed that it does.
It's a fair point, in part that was why I said I don't really have a problem with them in Siege battles so much because as you say when you throw them against other tier 5 units they are much more on par. But the vast majority of people who use them just use them for field battles and are getting put against low level new players where the rattans just excel and the newer players just don't stand a chance
Rattans can easily be chased down by kheshigs. This is because rattans cant shoot directly behind them. To counter rattans take kheshigs and go straight at the rattans wait until rattans charge away then counter with a charge to cut them off. Or if the hold charge you run them off. Either way you have successfully taken them out of the game using tactics. Another point: it would be a mistake to change game mechanics based on a low player base. Rather, you improve game mechanics to attract a larger player base. AkA improve game physics, fix glitches etc.