It’s funny, in this category there is no clear winner. The Athlon has my favorite reticle at distance, and a nice compact design, but is very heavy. The Athlon also has higher turrets making a 12oclock red dot nearly impossible. The PA GLX has a great reticle at low magnification but the large horseshoe and chevron is not great at max magnification making precise shots. The GLX is not as compact but is lighter than the Athlon. The US Optics is my favorite in terms of compact size, but is missing many desirable features of the Athlon and PA scopes. The SWFA is practically a relic at this point, it’s still a great scope, I just wish they would do a redesign. All of them have good enough glass for the magnification range. All are first focal plane. Most have an illuminated reticle and a good range for an SPR setup. If only someone could combine all the great features while keeping it under $800 MSRP: Lightweight under 20oz, Compact size, low turrets, great glass and mechanical features, great illuminated FFP reticle at low power and at high power. Athlon and PA are really pushing the industry right now. C’mon guys … someone listen to what we want!
I have a Leupold Mark AR 3-9 with a red dot on a 45 mount. Extremely light weight and one of my favorite guns to shoot. I know it's not high end but it works good and very light 12.5 oz.
If PA comes out with a MPVO with a reticle similar to the 1-8 PLXc’s that’s similar in weight as well I would be all over it. Since I run piggyback red dots this would be a welcome addition.
What a video. Will comment again but was honestly torn between the MOA or MIL reticle in the Athlon and for my application as on a 5.56 AR platform I went with the center dot (MIL). Will definitely comment after I take it out but I couldn't find a better scope for my budget. Awesome video
Nice video! I know it would make it longer, but curious how the swamofox's version of 2-12 would compare to these. If you will be making the part two of MPVO comparisons, give it a look.
@@DarkLordOfOptics That would be awesome. I saw a review by C_Does and the clarity at 1,000 yards was great. I could actually see the siding on the blue house versus other scopes that just show a blue house.
I have a KYLR and I think it is an excellent scope for the money, better than some $900-$1000 scopes I’ve had. I prefer the 12x and lighter weight over the Warhawk.
I was just looking at the USO TS-12 this week as I will eventually need a feature rich(for the price) hunting rig. Quite a few have caught my eye, but the TS-12 is the lightest of the bunch and it's pretty small package compared to many other options out there. That all being said, I'm not allowed to shoot for probably two more months, but that doesn't mean I can't pick something out for when I'm ready! By the way, I should qualify the round I'll be shooting(for the most part, unless it's Montana Elk!); 6.5 Creedmoor from a gas gun. The rifle weighs right around 8lbs, so I'm not keen on adding two more lbs to that, just in a scope and rings/mount! Thanks for another great video, DLO!! Your work is always very much appreciated!
TS-12x is a pretty compelling option. Do keep in mind that the reticle gets a little thin on 3x and that mounting length is quite short. You have to have a one piece rail for it.
Nice group for comparison, I have experience with the SWFAs, 3-9/3-15, very nice. The ACSS is a deal-breaker for me with the PA, being interested in a hunting scope, if they made it available with their illuminated mildot, or Athena reticle, it would be a no-brainer. If the SWFA came with illumination it would beat them all.
Great video with very good detailed insight! I would definitely like to see more along this line as agreed this MPVO option with off set red dot gives versatility while improving optical experience overall. Delta titanium range have 2.5-15 range with I believe 3 different reticle choices all in SFP though but illuminated fire dot in centre only. Also element have just launched a range across helix and Titan in catering for mpvo. Any of these along side either of the swamp foxes 2-12 or 3-15 would be interesting and keeping within similar pricing point as you have outlined in this video. Love your videos keep up the good work👍
I am planning to do a follow up. I have Blackhound Emerge 2-12x42 here for that. With SwampFox, I would like to see the 2-10x44 Warhawk at some point. I would really like to stick with FFP designs here.
Thoughts on the Burris Fullfield IV line up for hunting? Im interested in the Burris Fullfield IV 3-12x56 as it is half the price of the Meopta meostar r1 3-12x56.
My helos tunnels a little bit going to 2 power, but it works good, the center dot is a bit annoying but for my purpose it isn't a huge deal. I think the ACSS reticle from primary arms look like Babar the elephant and I just can't get over it.
I had a Helos 2-12x42 and didn't really rate it, turrets and build quaility were great but the glass was pretty average and was pretty horrible in low light. I also dislike the entire reticle being illuminated, I found when light began to fade the reticle would be very difficult to see but turning on illumination would wash out the entire image and make it worse than not being able to see the reticle.
I have a Leica Amplus 6 2.5x15 56. 4a ret. 2nd focal Illuminated center dot, 11 setting/off in between. It has to be dark to see it on lowest setting believe it is fiber if I'm remembering correctly. Great glass, my girlfriend has the viper pa 6-20 on her 6.5 cm we argue about who has the better glass
I might have gotten a lemon, but i recently received one of the USO 12x scopes, and was shocked at the amount of edge distortion it had at low magnification. I had to go grab my Helos 2-12 for comparison, and immediately boxed the USO back up to return. I was looking forward to using the USO as a lightweight option on my SFAR, but the distortion was almost like a fisheye at minimum power. Also the inclusion of the anti-flash layer seemed odd.... How many folks buying a $300 scope need that feature as a permanent inclusion?
@@DarkLordOfOptics Yes, sorry, didn't know the term. I'm sure it is very useful if you're in danger of receiving return fire, my use case is mostly closer range hunting and range use. In that context it just seemed like an extra layer between my eye and the target, that even if it doesn't block much light, I didn't have much use for. Regardless, I've had three of these four scopes and the USO is the only one I wasn't happy with. I'd like to try the PA, and would pick up another SWFA, but at this point, I'm waiting and hoping they have some updated offerings right around the corner that might work on the SFAR.... Anything you might be able to share on when to look for news from SWFA?
@@DarkLordOfOptics Follow on to add a thank you for making these videos, and sharing your knowledge, I'm looking forward to part 2 of the MVPO comparison.
@@wr3921 I can't say anything about SWFA, sorry. As far as the ARD goes, it is very effective for minimizing stray light effects. Must scopes actually have better overall image fidelity with an ARD on as long as it is not too dense.
That's a good question, because there really aren't too many of them. If you are OK with 4.5x on the low end, my sorta standard answer is Vortex Razor HD-LHT 4.5-22x50 bit.ly/3mbUNGs If you want something with 2x on the low end, Trijicon Credo 2-10x36 is right under $1k now and is a nice design: bit.ly/3gfOTjY
Thank You! I made a whole bunch of these stickers and for a while I sent one out with every DLO T-shirt or whiskey glass. The UA-cam channel here is about guns and optics, but on my darklordofoptics.com website and on my substack page I talk about politics and history a good bit as well.
Any feedback from Athlon on the reticle illumination, or opportunity to use a CR 2016 battery with spacer? The Helos would be ideal for my 6.5 Grendel hunting AR, but not with the illumination issue. As it stands, I wish that the center dot on my Leupold Mark AR could be a teeny bit dimmer.
I have not heard from them on this, but I'll talk to them at SHOT. I chose against screwing around with different batteries. Even if I can make it work, it is a wonky solution.
I want the PA but for the price difference I think I’m going with the Athlon. I like those 2 reticles the most but wish the Athlon had a more fine only lit center dot or chevron. Not a fan of everything being lit up which tends to starburst when in low light conditions
That's sort of a personal choice. I have a strong personal preference for FFP because I do a lot with the reticle and I like for the reticle subtensions to be accurate. Arguably the best overall design would be a dual focal plane reticle, but it is somewhat difficult to build. There are three manufacturers currently making DFP scopes, so perhaps we will see that more.
I could listen to this guy talk all day. But seriously, just a really intelligent and thorough review of these scopes
It’s funny, in this category there is no clear winner. The Athlon has my favorite reticle at distance, and a nice compact design, but is very heavy. The Athlon also has higher turrets making a 12oclock red dot nearly impossible. The PA GLX has a great reticle at low magnification but the large horseshoe and chevron is not great at max magnification making precise shots. The GLX is not as compact but is lighter than the Athlon. The US Optics is my favorite in terms of compact size, but is missing many desirable features of the Athlon and PA scopes. The SWFA is practically a relic at this point, it’s still a great scope, I just wish they would do a redesign.
All of them have good enough glass for the magnification range. All are first focal plane. Most have an illuminated reticle and a good range for an SPR setup.
If only someone could combine all the great features while keeping it under $800 MSRP: Lightweight under 20oz, Compact size, low turrets, great glass and mechanical features, great illuminated FFP reticle at low power and at high power.
Athlon and PA are really pushing the industry right now. C’mon guys … someone listen to what we want!
I have a Leupold Mark AR 3-9 with a red dot on a 45 mount. Extremely light weight and one of my favorite guns to shoot. I know it's not high end but it works good and very light 12.5 oz.
If PA comes out with a MPVO with a reticle similar to the 1-8 PLXc’s that’s similar in weight as well I would be all over it. Since I run piggyback red dots this would be a welcome addition.
Awesome video - best optics channel. Thank you for your service
What a video. Will comment again but was honestly torn between the MOA or MIL reticle in the Athlon and for my application as on a 5.56 AR platform I went with the center dot (MIL). Will definitely comment after I take it out but I couldn't find a better scope for my budget. Awesome video
If anyone cares I absolutely love this athlon. This reticle in the MIL is imo perfect for my setup in 5.56. Just can’t believe the quality
Literally the most comprehensive scopes comparison I have seen so far! Amazing!
Great vid dude. Always so thorough!
The video I have been waiting for!!
I’ve been looking for this exact review for my 16” SR15. Thank you 🙏
Nice video! I know it would make it longer, but curious how the swamofox's version of 2-12 would compare to these. If you will be making the part two of MPVO comparisons, give it a look.
Thanks. I am more interested in SwampFox' 2-10x44 Warhawk than the 2-12x Kentucky Long. KL is a nice scope, but Warhawk is a step up from that.
@@DarkLordOfOptics That would be awesome. I saw a review by C_Does and the clarity at 1,000 yards was great. I could actually see the siding on the blue house versus other scopes that just show a blue house.
Great video. Did you ever get your hands on a Warhawk 2-10? It looks well designed but heavy at 30oz.
I have a KYLR and I think it is an excellent scope for the money, better than some $900-$1000 scopes I’ve had. I prefer the 12x and lighter weight over the Warhawk.
I was just looking at the USO TS-12 this week as I will eventually need a feature rich(for the price) hunting rig. Quite a few have caught my eye, but the TS-12 is the lightest of the bunch and it's pretty small package compared to many other options out there.
That all being said, I'm not allowed to shoot for probably two more months, but that doesn't mean I can't pick something out for when I'm ready!
By the way, I should qualify the round I'll be shooting(for the most part, unless it's Montana Elk!); 6.5 Creedmoor from a gas gun. The rifle weighs right around 8lbs, so I'm not keen on adding two more lbs to that, just in a scope and rings/mount!
Thanks for another great video, DLO!! Your work is always very much appreciated!
TS-12x is a pretty compelling option. Do keep in mind that the reticle gets a little thin on 3x and that mounting length is quite short. You have to have a one piece rail for it.
Nice group for comparison, I have experience with the SWFAs, 3-9/3-15, very nice. The ACSS is a deal-breaker for me with the PA, being interested in a hunting scope, if they made it available with their illuminated mildot, or Athena reticle, it would be a no-brainer. If the SWFA came with illumination it would beat them all.
Great video with very good detailed insight!
I would definitely like to see more along this line as agreed this MPVO option with off set red dot gives versatility while improving optical experience overall.
Delta titanium range have 2.5-15 range with I believe 3 different reticle choices all in SFP though but illuminated fire dot in centre only. Also element have just launched a range across helix and Titan in catering for mpvo. Any of these along side either of the swamp foxes 2-12 or 3-15 would be interesting and keeping within similar pricing point as you have outlined in this video.
Love your videos keep up the good work👍
I am planning to do a follow up. I have Blackhound Emerge 2-12x42 here for that. With SwampFox, I would like to see the 2-10x44 Warhawk at some point. I would really like to stick with FFP designs here.
Thoughts on the Burris Fullfield IV line up for hunting? Im interested in the Burris Fullfield IV 3-12x56 as it is half the price of the Meopta meostar r1 3-12x56.
I have not tested the FF IV, so I can not speak to it.
My helos tunnels a little bit going to 2 power, but it works good, the center dot is a bit annoying but for my purpose it isn't a huge deal.
I think the ACSS reticle from primary arms look like Babar the elephant and I just can't get over it.
I had a Helos 2-12x42 and didn't really rate it, turrets and build quaility were great but the glass was pretty average and was pretty horrible in low light.
I also dislike the entire reticle being illuminated, I found when light began to fade the reticle would be very difficult to see but turning on illumination would wash out the entire image and make it worse than not being able to see the reticle.
Interesting. I did not really like the illumination either, but aside from that thought it was a pretty solid scope for the money.
If you step up to the midas series I believe the glass gets better. I had used the hmr 3-15 and thought it was nice i ended up buying a midas btr 4-27
I have a Leica Amplus 6 2.5x15 56. 4a ret. 2nd focal Illuminated center dot, 11 setting/off in between. It has to be dark to see it on lowest setting believe it is fiber if I'm remembering correctly. Great glass, my girlfriend has the viper pa 6-20 on her 6.5 cm we argue about who has the better glass
Отличное видео! Спасибо. Ещё бы обзор на прицелы 3-15 и 3-18 в ценовой категории от 900 до 1500 долларов.
I might have gotten a lemon, but i recently received one of the USO 12x scopes, and was shocked at the amount of edge distortion it had at low magnification. I had to go grab my Helos 2-12 for comparison, and immediately boxed the USO back up to return. I was looking forward to using the USO as a lightweight option on my SFAR, but the distortion was almost like a fisheye at minimum power. Also the inclusion of the anti-flash layer seemed odd.... How many folks buying a $300 scope need that feature as a permanent inclusion?
Are you talking about an ARD? That is a very useful thing to have
@@DarkLordOfOptics Yes, sorry, didn't know the term. I'm sure it is very useful if you're in danger of receiving return fire, my use case is mostly closer range hunting and range use. In that context it just seemed like an extra layer between my eye and the target, that even if it doesn't block much light, I didn't have much use for. Regardless, I've had three of these four scopes and the USO is the only one I wasn't happy with. I'd like to try the PA, and would pick up another SWFA, but at this point, I'm waiting and hoping they have some updated offerings right around the corner that might work on the SFAR.... Anything you might be able to share on when to look for news from SWFA?
@@DarkLordOfOptics Follow on to add a thank you for making these videos, and sharing your knowledge, I'm looking forward to part 2 of the MVPO comparison.
@@wr3921 I can't say anything about SWFA, sorry. As far as the ARD goes, it is very effective for minimizing stray light effects. Must scopes actually have better overall image fidelity with an ARD on as long as it is not too dense.
What scopes in the medium power range would you recommend in the $1-2000 range?
That's a good question, because there really aren't too many of them. If you are OK with 4.5x on the low end, my sorta standard answer is Vortex Razor HD-LHT 4.5-22x50 bit.ly/3mbUNGs If you want something with 2x on the low end, Trijicon Credo 2-10x36 is right under $1k now and is a nice design: bit.ly/3gfOTjY
Another great scope video!!! BTW I love your sticker on the computer, "Survivor Of A Socialist Experiment"!
Thank You! I made a whole bunch of these stickers and for a while I sent one out with every DLO T-shirt or whiskey glass. The UA-cam channel here is about guns and optics, but on my darklordofoptics.com website and on my substack page I talk about politics and history a good bit as well.
Any feedback from Athlon on the reticle illumination, or opportunity to use a CR 2016 battery with spacer? The Helos would be ideal for my 6.5 Grendel hunting AR, but not with the illumination issue. As it stands, I wish that the center dot on my Leupold Mark AR could be a teeny bit dimmer.
I have not heard from them on this, but I'll talk to them at SHOT. I chose against screwing around with different batteries. Even if I can make it work, it is a wonky solution.
I want the PA but for the price difference I think I’m going with the Athlon. I like those 2 reticles the most but wish the Athlon had a more fine only lit center dot or chevron. Not a fan of everything being lit up which tends to starburst when in low light conditions
Would this ever make sense in 2fp?
That's sort of a personal choice. I have a strong personal preference for FFP because I do a lot with the reticle and I like for the reticle subtensions to be accurate. Arguably the best overall design would be a dual focal plane reticle, but it is somewhat difficult to build. There are three manufacturers currently making DFP scopes, so perhaps we will see that more.
The SWFA has been between extremely difficult to impossible to buy for a while, it is perpetually out of stock.
I am hoping that will improve. Supply chain situation has been a mess.
Здравствуйте Рус канал есть у Вас?
Нет.
Next time drink sufficiently before put the mic ON
Boring, too much waffle