Just found your channel like a week ago and i gotta tell ya man you deserve more subs. You got quality no bs reviews and a great format. Keep it up man!
Love the savagery and honesty. Don’t ever stop being you. I concur with your thoughts on the razor. Waited until the G3 was in stores before buying. Looked at both side by side and walked out with the 1-6.
I have two ATHLON ARES ETR 1-10X24 MIL FFP ATMR3 and I freaking love it . One is on my 2Gun Rig and the other is on my 16" 6ARC . I really wanna pick up Athlon 2-12x
SFP is simple, at 10x it works if you need drops you are at longer range. If you are any where up to 150-200 it doesn't matter anyway. If you are CQB constant ret image is very important for snap shooting and familiarity.
I love your channel. I'm looking to purchase an LPVO and these videos have been very helpful. Now I need to pick either the Sig MSR, Athlon Midas or Primary Arms ACSS.
Honestly I think like a lot of UA-cam reviewers either A) lack a critical eye for the details that C_Does picks up (maybe because they haven't looked through as many optics) or B) are emotionally invested in the product they bought and want to tell you how great it is. Although all the other UA-cam videos on the Razor 1-10 are glowingly positive, a lot of guys on forums (eg the Hide) have echoed what C_Does said about the Razor. I bought an Eotech 1-10 after watching a bunch of guys on UA-cam rave about it, but was very unimpressed with it myself. Guys love to tell you how great the things they've bought are, or they just don't have enough experience behind good glass to know the difference (plenty of guys swear Strike Eagles are great optics - that'd likely change if they spent a couple days behind a Kahles). Or lastly, some guys just get outright defensive if you criticize something they own.
It's a 10x magnification optic with a 24mm objective. That's why mid-tier MPVOs blow it out of the water at 10x, it is just common sense physics. There are trade offs with optical designs. There is a reason why 10x erector ratios are not the norm. It's still a nice and niche scope, but there are a lot of compromises to provide that extra magnification while having a 1x FFP in that package. The praises sung by other reviewers is just a circle jerk. A lot of times it is from the same people who say ACOGs are end all be all and have the best "glass". There is an awful lot of uninformed and generally clueless people in the optics review space and until we had an superb channel like C_Does we did not have an objective way to disprove their uninformed claims.
@@Ilost11 Yes and no, it's definitely sharper than he represents. There is more to an optic than just the clarity too, FFP utility outshines the downsides to it. If you want a good scope with great image and exit pupil, just stay away from LPVOs.
Hey I really appreciate your reviews. I was looking through your library and did not see one for the Ares ETR 1-10x. Have you had a chance to look through that glass? I haven't seen too many reviews for it.
This maybe a stupid question but you don't know till you ask but for the BDC, is it possible to use the BDC at different magnification as long as you know the effect it would have? In my mind I'm wondering if it's as simple as using the 300 yard BDC indicator for 600 yards at 5x or something along those lines?
I think of it this way. Athlon says for a 68-69gr 5.56 load that you zero it at ~100yds to make the BDC work. If I zero at 200 yds then at any magnification I can use the center like a red dot and from 0-300yds you will be impacting within 3-4 inches of the center of the reticle. If things start getting farther than that then it would be useful to crank it up to 10x and use the BDC for a more precise aiming point. This BDC goes out to 700 yds. Having 10x will make 700 yd engagements much easier. If you think 10x is to much then Athlon and almost all other optic manufacturers offer LPVOs with a 4, 6, or 8, times max magnification. Also, having 10x max magnification makes identifying target at range much easier. I don’t know if you have ever shot out to distances past 500yds but with low mag you can see the target but detail isn’t there. 10x allows you to start seeing facial features. Besides I want one for a .308 AR so reaching out there is a bit more feasible so more magnification makes more sense for me. Just my $0.02
The fact it’s SFP kills me so much, I keep eyeing the 2-12 version since that is FFP, I’m worried I’ll have to end up getting a canted red dot to back up at that point however
I have the Helos BTR Gen 2 2-12x42mm FFP MOA, and honestly the reticle works pretty freaking well at 2x doing carbine stuff up close, a canted red dot is still a good supplement and backup though.
My impression when you made that first full zoom out was the glass must be pretty darn good; picture stayed clear and no distracting distortion. But the scope body thing bothers me and I’ll have to look through some Athlon scopes to tell how bad it is. I really dislike “soda straw effect” and the lack thereof was one of the features that always drew me to Nikon scopes.
Great review, so...mine isn't anywhere as clear on 10x even at 100yds. The edges on your 400yd image is my whole image, clears up down at 4x. Talked to Athlon and debating sending it in. For comparison with fixed parallax, Gen1 Strike Eagle 1-8 and Trijicon Credo HX 1-6 look much better at full mag. Credo is head and shoulders above both in all aspects.
I wish more companies did their SFP reticle calibration not at the max magnification. This one could be done at say 7 or 8 with an audible click in the zoom ring to indicate you are there without looking at it.
Would make it over complicated and unnecessary. If your going to zoom in to 7x on a 10x might as well go all the way to 10x. It's pointless to have the bdc at anything less then max. This is where ffp kills it. For your wish. As it can be used at any zoom magnification.
This lower end 1-10 being clearer than the razor gen III makes me very curious in their Ares ETR 1-10. If the glass is as good or better than this, with comparable build quality to the razor, it could be a real winner. Don’t pass up the opportunity if someone offers to send you one for review!
I have an ares 1-10, the 1x is a little fisheye-y but the reticle is a lot better and super clear glass. My main complaint is that it's H E A V Y, 28oz for the bare optic
@@airwolf... Delta styker 1-6s are literally vortex 1-6s in different clothes. Same illumination. Same internals. Made in the same factory by Light Optics Works in Japan. With Delta you just don't pay a premium for a lifetime warranty therefore the optic is way less expensive. Anyone who says warranties don't cost you are chumps. But from what I've seen deltas are sweet
I literally cannot believe this lmao. I get that it's SFP vs FFP, but like goddamn dude FFP is not that big of a deal for me if I'm not higher than 10x. Personally I'd probably rather prefer a 1-8x SFP vs a 1-10x SFP, but these Athlon scopes have me thinking about different options and altering my perception of these scopes and where the future of optics is heading. I'm still probably just gonna go with a Vortex Gen II-E or a Credo HX 1-6x, but the rapid pace of the development of scopes has me really curious about bumping up to a higher magnification range, or even an MPVO. I live in Utah at the bottom edge of the Salt Lake Valley, right between the salt lake valley and provo. Having some extra reach would be fun and useful.
Have you done a test on a Centerpoint Optics 1-4x20? They're about $75 on Amazon and there's videos on UA-cam of people who swear by them as a cheap LPVO that lasts. I'm not trying to say it compares to this optic I'm just asking if you've reviewed it.
I’m real curious about how well this would perform if they made a 1-8x version - that is, how much would that help the eyebox? That might be one other thing these budget LPVO manufacturers could try - like the original Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 and the Trijicon 1-8 which have 34mm tubes. That said, I’ve seen at least one comment/review of the Sig Tango MSR 1-8 that claims the listed specs are wrong, and it’s actually a 34 mm tube (not sure if that’s true or not).
No 1 - 10 LPVO is exceptional. It is a tradeoff by design to reach such a high erector ratio with such a small objective to maintain that 1x. We are all suddenly forgetting physics exists.
@@Ilost11 It's quite good from what I heard, just wanted to point out the weight. As far as 1x zoom and objective size, it's actually necessary to have a rather small front lens to be able to design an LPVO. 10 zoom ratio in itself is definitely a trade off.
@@andymorales6907 I know the objective needs to be small hence my reference to the limitations of physics. That small objective leads to a plethora of optical issues for high magnification of which 10x could qualify as. The 1 - 10 LPVO is something the whole market was asking for, but didn't realize what they were losing in getting what they wanted. It is a very niche optic that is often better substituted with an MPVO + offset RDS if the magnification is really needed.
14:54 - "Akshuwally..." as long as you have reticle subtensions, can't you work out your own drops? It's do agree it is unecessary mental math though, unique per BDC. Strict MIL/MIL SFP can be interpolated more easily at intermediate ranges theoretically.
@@borkwoof696 All mine 223s are zeroed at 200 at least and I like it that way better than being at a hundred. Don't most bdc's presume the dot/cross/chevron tip being zeroed at 100 for the rest of the holds to work properly? That's what I meant by "force you". I can't even think of any bdc reticle off the top of my head that isn't using the 100 yard distance for that.
@@andymorales6907 this video explains it well: ua-cam.com/video/qAZAW6vHocE/v-deo.html You can compare for discrepancies between your rifle/ammo and bdc by changing your zero. Works quite well (up to a point).
I have this scope. I'm not a "scope expert" by any means but I think it's a fantastic optic. I like the fact that it's a second focal plane scope. At 1X, the dot is super easy to pick up and the scope basically disappears. It's very much like a red dot sight. A first focal plane scope at 1X is very reliant on the battery and being daylight bright to pick up. With this optic I can easily get on target at night with a rifle mounted light, even with the scope light turned off. The ranging reticle only works at 10X, but honestly, if it's far enough out that I have to range it, it's going to be on 10X anyway. I have it mounted on a POF Revolution DI in 308. With this scope I can fully utilize the complete range of the rifle, from point blank out to 800 yards.
Makes perfect since you need to be at max setting to use the retical anyway anything 100 and under you don’t need to use the retical anything over that you need 10 power. People say this on UA-cam but in combat and the real world your going to be at 10 power if your needing to use a bullet drop compensation most rifles will shoot 100 to 150 with no major drop at all
I think the Swampfox Arrowhead 1-8x24 would be more comparable to this, even though it’s only a 8x… With the whole diameter difference changing the eye box.. verses the zoom power…
I guess the buget 1-10 lpvo has to go with SFP design to reduce the cost and simplify the mnf process. But I wish all SFP scope has a sort of click stop feature at 1/2 of the max magnification, such as 5x for a 1-10 sfp lpvo so u can sort of take advantage of the reticles, if you can do ok math LOL. Great and very honest one !
Help Help Help!!! I need help!! I have watched so many videos and now my brain is overwhelmed with all the scope madness!! I want a scope in 10x or 12x power. FFP or SFP is fine. I also need a daylight bright red dot. I don’t want illuminated crosshairs.
Just found your channel like a week ago and i gotta tell ya man you deserve more subs. You got quality no bs reviews and a great format. Keep it up man!
Timestamps of terror:
3:40 4:19 4:57 9:04 (dunking on Razor HD Gen3 1-10, but rightfully so with data)
Only 9:04 seems to be about the Razor
🤣
Love the savagery and honesty. Don’t ever stop being you.
I concur with your thoughts on the razor. Waited until the G3 was in stores before buying. Looked at both side by side and walked out with the 1-6.
Rawwrrrrrrrrrr! I dont know how else to be. Thankfully. You made the right choice.
Learned and saved so much just by watching your videos, thank you.
I'm very happy to help
Is there a possibility for you to review the athlon ares uhd 1-10?
Would love to see your take on the Primary Arms 1-10x SLx Griffin-MIL
I have two ATHLON ARES ETR 1-10X24 MIL FFP ATMR3 and I freaking love it . One is on my 2Gun Rig and the other is on my 16" 6ARC .
I really wanna pick up Athlon 2-12x
I have the Helos BTR Gen 2 2-12x42mm FFP MOA on a 18" barreled .223 Wylde and I'm a freaking fan, I recommend looking into one.
SFP is simple, at 10x it works if you need drops you are at longer range. If you are any where up to 150-200 it doesn't matter anyway. If you are CQB constant ret image is very important for snap shooting and familiarity.
SFP is massively underrated. Scopes that have usable reticles at the lowest magnification in all lighting conditions are practical and tactical.
I love your channel. I'm looking to purchase an LPVO and these videos have been very helpful. Now I need to pick either the Sig MSR, Athlon Midas or Primary Arms ACSS.
sig is coming out with a FFP 1-10 tango. looks cool
Tube diameter doesn’t affect light transfer. Having a 20mm tube or 40mm tube will not change the small 2.8mm exit pupil at 10x on this optic.
Lovre your channel.wish uou could do a 300 to 400 yard shot.but i know range time is getting expensive as hell!
Hey C, I wonder if something is up with that Vortex 1-10. Have you seen others?
Wondering the same. Other reports have praised the glass across the board.
Honestly I think like a lot of UA-cam reviewers either A) lack a critical eye for the details that C_Does picks up (maybe because they haven't looked through as many optics) or B) are emotionally invested in the product they bought and want to tell you how great it is.
Although all the other UA-cam videos on the Razor 1-10 are glowingly positive, a lot of guys on forums (eg the Hide) have echoed what C_Does said about the Razor. I bought an Eotech 1-10 after watching a bunch of guys on UA-cam rave about it, but was very unimpressed with it myself. Guys love to tell you how great the things they've bought are, or they just don't have enough experience behind good glass to know the difference (plenty of guys swear Strike Eagles are great optics - that'd likely change if they spent a couple days behind a Kahles). Or lastly, some guys just get outright defensive if you criticize something they own.
@@highdragguns I have a razor hd gen 3, and mine is definitely sharper than that. Don't know if he's out of focus or what, but doesn't look right.
It's a 10x magnification optic with a 24mm objective. That's why mid-tier MPVOs blow it out of the water at 10x, it is just common sense physics. There are trade offs with optical designs. There is a reason why 10x erector ratios are not the norm. It's still a nice and niche scope, but there are a lot of compromises to provide that extra magnification while having a 1x FFP in that package. The praises sung by other reviewers is just a circle jerk. A lot of times it is from the same people who say ACOGs are end all be all and have the best "glass". There is an awful lot of uninformed and generally clueless people in the optics review space and until we had an superb channel like C_Does we did not have an objective way to disprove their uninformed claims.
@@Ilost11 Yes and no, it's definitely sharper than he represents. There is more to an optic than just the clarity too, FFP utility outshines the downsides to it. If you want a good scope with great image and exit pupil, just stay away from LPVOs.
Great review, great format. Keep 'em coming! Completely excellent!
Hey I really appreciate your reviews. I was looking through your library and did not see one for the Ares ETR 1-10x. Have you had a chance to look through that glass? I haven't seen too many reviews for it.
What about PA SLX 1-10x28 Griffin or Raptor? Thank you.
This maybe a stupid question but you don't know till you ask but for the BDC, is it possible to use the BDC at different magnification as long as you know the effect it would have? In my mind I'm wondering if it's as simple as using the 300 yard BDC indicator for 600 yards at 5x or something along those lines?
I think of it this way. Athlon says for a 68-69gr 5.56 load that you zero it at ~100yds to make the BDC work. If I zero at 200 yds then at any magnification I can use the center like a red dot and from 0-300yds you will be impacting within 3-4 inches of the center of the reticle. If things start getting farther than that then it would be useful to crank it up to 10x and use the BDC for a more precise aiming point. This BDC goes out to 700 yds. Having 10x will make 700 yd engagements much easier. If you think 10x is to much then Athlon and almost all other optic manufacturers offer LPVOs with a 4, 6, or 8, times max magnification. Also, having 10x max magnification makes identifying target at range much easier. I don’t know if you have ever shot out to distances past 500yds but with low mag you can see the target but detail isn’t there. 10x allows you to start seeing facial features. Besides I want one for a .308 AR so reaching out there is a bit more feasible so more magnification makes more sense for me. Just my $0.02
Another excellent review! The go to channel for firearms optics.
Great video as usual, have you thought about being able to review the romeo8t?
Hey man love your videos, the only reviews i trust.
Really hope you do the eotech vudu 1-10 sometime in the future
I like my Vudu 1-10. Very nice for what it is and hundreds of dollars cheaper than a Razor.
Man you make one of the best if not the vest reviews on youtube, i bet that big companies dont like you much lol
that is an interesting reticle.
Have you ever used one of those SeeAll Open sights? If not I have one I’d like to send for your review.
What about Sig sauer 1-10 sfp tango after this video ?
Athlon 2-12 por favor?
Yeah, been looking at that one.
Agreed. Waiting on that review, but in the meantime...
m.ua-cam.com/video/GakbPG-qTaw/v-deo.html
The fact it’s SFP kills me so much, I keep eyeing the 2-12 version since that is FFP, I’m worried I’ll have to end up getting a canted red dot to back up at that point however
I have the Helos BTR Gen 2 2-12x42mm FFP MOA, and honestly the reticle works pretty freaking well at 2x doing carbine stuff up close, a canted red dot is still a good supplement and backup though.
THIS MAN LIVIN THE FPS LIFE WITH THE CAM ON THE GUN🤣🤣🤣🤣
Any chance you have a Ares ETR review in the works?
My impression when you made that first full zoom out was the glass must be pretty darn good; picture stayed clear and no distracting distortion. But the scope body thing bothers me and I’ll have to look through some Athlon scopes to tell how bad it is. I really dislike “soda straw effect” and the lack thereof was one of the features that always drew me to Nikon scopes.
Great review, so...mine isn't anywhere as clear on 10x even at 100yds. The edges on your 400yd image is my whole image, clears up down at 4x. Talked to Athlon and debating sending it in. For comparison with fixed parallax, Gen1 Strike Eagle 1-8 and Trijicon Credo HX 1-6 look much better at full mag. Credo is head and shoulders above both in all aspects.
Any plans to test the PLx Compact from primary?
Any interest in reviewing the Swampfox 1-4? Seems like a nice budget 1-4
Swampfox aerohead, this or a vortex strike Eagle..? This whole lpvo thing is a huge pain in the neck… No clue which one to buy…
I wish more companies did their SFP reticle calibration not at the max magnification. This one could be done at say 7 or 8 with an audible click in the zoom ring to indicate you are there without looking at it.
Would make it over complicated and unnecessary. If your going to zoom in to 7x on a 10x might as well go all the way to 10x. It's pointless to have the bdc at anything less then max. This is where ffp kills it. For your wish. As it can be used at any zoom magnification.
This lower end 1-10 being clearer than the razor gen III makes me very curious in their Ares ETR 1-10. If the glass is as good or better than this, with comparable build quality to the razor, it could be a real winner. Don’t pass up the opportunity if someone offers to send you one for review!
Great scope. But it's a fatass. I think 27oz?
I have an ares 1-10, the 1x is a little fisheye-y but the reticle is a lot better and super clear glass. My main complaint is that it's H E A V Y, 28oz for the bare optic
Which optics have the body of the optic appear as small as possible? Besides the razor (which looks amazing, the bezel almost disappears).
Vortex viper pst gen ii 1-6x24 and Delta Stryker HD 1-6x24 are the only ones I have tried so far that come close to the razor HD
@@airwolf... Delta styker 1-6s are literally vortex 1-6s in different clothes. Same illumination. Same internals. Made in the same factory by Light Optics Works in Japan. With Delta you just don't pay a premium for a lifetime warranty therefore the optic is way less expensive. Anyone who says warranties don't cost you are chumps. But from what I've seen deltas are sweet
@9:37, Athlon actually looks SIGNIFICANTLY Better and clearer to me. The Razor looks like a fuzzy, chromatic slurry
I literally cannot believe this lmao. I get that it's SFP vs FFP, but like goddamn dude FFP is not that big of a deal for me if I'm not higher than 10x. Personally I'd probably rather prefer a 1-8x SFP vs a 1-10x SFP, but these Athlon scopes have me thinking about different options and altering my perception of these scopes and where the future of optics is heading. I'm still probably just gonna go with a Vortex Gen II-E or a Credo HX 1-6x, but the rapid pace of the development of scopes has me really curious about bumping up to a higher magnification range, or even an MPVO. I live in Utah at the bottom edge of the Salt Lake Valley, right between the salt lake valley and provo. Having some extra reach would be fun and useful.
Have you done a test on a Centerpoint Optics 1-4x20? They're about $75 on Amazon and there's videos on UA-cam of people who swear by them as a cheap LPVO that lasts. I'm not trying to say it compares to this optic I'm just asking if you've reviewed it.
NIghtforce ATACR 1-8 and Primary Arms PLx Compact 1-8 PLS
I’m real curious about how well this would perform if they made a 1-8x version - that is, how much would that help the eyebox? That might be one other thing these budget LPVO manufacturers could try - like the original Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 and the Trijicon 1-8 which have 34mm tubes. That said, I’ve seen at least one comment/review of the Sig Tango MSR 1-8 that claims the listed specs are wrong, and it’s actually a 34 mm tube (not sure if that’s true or not).
They do the Argos 1-8x24
@@abell4785 the Argos has a 30 mm tube
@@rickblaine1411 that's their only 1-8 the other scopes mentioned priced out Athlon. I would like to see more 34mm tubes in options.
Nice video, good comparison
You ever run into people doing the pew segment?
I wish we could get a center dot that was smaller or perhaps a different shape. I would prefer a chevron or even a triangle. From any manufacturer.
Look at Primary Arms then, they have a real fetish for chevrons.
Imagine their 1k 1-10 is exceptional
The Ares? A chunky thing though..
No 1 - 10 LPVO is exceptional. It is a tradeoff by design to reach such a high erector ratio with such a small objective to maintain that 1x. We are all suddenly forgetting physics exists.
@@Ilost11 It's quite good from what I heard, just wanted to point out the weight. As far as 1x zoom and objective size, it's actually necessary to have a rather small front lens to be able to design an LPVO. 10 zoom ratio in itself is definitely a trade off.
@@andymorales6907 I know the objective needs to be small hence my reference to the limitations of physics. That small objective leads to a plethora of optical issues for high magnification of which 10x could qualify as. The 1 - 10 LPVO is something the whole market was asking for, but didn't realize what they were losing in getting what they wanted. It is a very niche optic that is often better substituted with an MPVO + offset RDS if the magnification is really needed.
14:54 - "Akshuwally..." as long as you have reticle subtensions, can't you work out your own drops?
It's do agree it is unecessary mental math though, unique per BDC. Strict MIL/MIL SFP can be interpolated more easily at intermediate ranges theoretically.
You can also adjust your zero distance to make your trajectory match up more closely with the subtensions.
Yes. They also force you to stick with the 100 yard zero most of them are designed around. Personally I don't use hundred for zero on a 223.
@@andymorales6907 They don’t. You can gain a lot by not zeroing at 100 yards depending on your barrel length/ammo combination
@@borkwoof696 All mine 223s are zeroed at 200 at least and I like it that way better than being at a hundred. Don't most bdc's presume the dot/cross/chevron tip being zeroed at 100 for the rest of the holds to work properly? That's what I meant by "force you". I can't even think of any bdc reticle off the top of my head that isn't using the 100 yard distance for that.
@@andymorales6907 this video explains it well: ua-cam.com/video/qAZAW6vHocE/v-deo.html
You can compare for discrepancies between your rifle/ammo and bdc by changing your zero. Works quite well (up to a point).
SFP doesn’t make sense to me in a 1-10 at all.
It only makes sense because of the price
SFP ranging reticals..... like wha?
It’s an odd choice because the rest of their lineup is FFP for more magnification and only a bit more money
I have this scope. I'm not a "scope expert" by any means but I think it's a fantastic optic. I like the fact that it's a second focal plane scope. At 1X, the dot is super easy to pick up and the scope basically disappears. It's very much like a red dot sight. A first focal plane scope at 1X is very reliant on the battery and being daylight bright to pick up. With this optic I can easily get on target at night with a rifle mounted light, even with the scope light turned off. The ranging reticle only works at 10X, but honestly, if it's far enough out that I have to range it, it's going to be on 10X anyway. I have it mounted on a POF Revolution DI in 308. With this scope I can fully utilize the complete range of the rifle, from point blank out to 800 yards.
Makes perfect since you need to be at max setting to use the retical anyway anything 100 and under you don’t need to use the retical anything over that you need 10 power. People say this on UA-cam but in combat and the real world your going to be at 10 power if your needing to use a bullet drop compensation most rifles will shoot 100 to 150 with no major drop at all
C_Does, ... does it again!
First!
I think the Swampfox Arrowhead 1-8x24 would be more comparable to this, even though it’s only a 8x… With the whole diameter difference changing the eye box.. verses the zoom power…
I guess the buget 1-10 lpvo has to go with SFP design to reduce the cost and simplify the mnf process. But I wish all SFP scope has a sort of click stop feature at 1/2 of the max magnification, such as 5x for a 1-10 sfp lpvo so u can sort of take advantage of the reticles, if you can do ok math LOL. Great and very honest one !
Help Help Help!!!
I need help!! I have watched so many videos and now my brain is overwhelmed with all the scope madness!!
I want a scope in 10x or 12x power. FFP or SFP is fine. I also need a daylight bright red dot.
I don’t want illuminated crosshairs.
Algorithm comment
Athlon is good bang for your buck.
How can I contact you?
Should take a look at the burris xtr ii
The reticle kinda looks like a mushroom...🍄
This is sp random, thos comment says spmetimg about your view of thongs on life 🤣🤣