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I was wondering why for the lab you would not just run a wires for a Pc through the walls and insulate/ sound proof around them as to not disrupt the lab. And just have the pc outside
I don't remember how heatpipes should be mounted all that well but shouldn't the pointy end be upwards or to the side and never downwards ? I feel like I remember something about this from vertical itx cases for gpus. I've been looking forward to this since you guys showed em off for the first time.
Try out T series CPUs like the i7-12700T - 35W base, 99W max turbo PL2 and pair it with the Noctua passive heatsink. Modern power & features that's more relevant to a 2020 video imho. You'd have to go with a standard ATX/mATX/ITX mobo (haven't seen a Z690 "reversee") but that's more 'real world' for your audience :) I know it's not the point of the passive build, but if silence and cool temps is the goal (rather than zero dust) you may also be surprised at how adding several Noctua NF-A12x25 fans at 1000RPM or below are still completely inaudible and probably indestinguishable from background even by a dBA meter (although sound profiling for low, med, and high pitch should also be considered - something the NF-A12x25 still does well while cheaper Arctic P12 does very poorly)
Not a particularly constructive comment, but I like the unusual looks of that huge heatsink hanging out the back of the case. Gives it a kind of hot rod vibe.
I already liked that look, but then seeing it with a glass panel over it really completed the look for me. (not the hotrod look, but a look lol) Ooh, now I want to see a hot rod themed pc build with a heatsink like this one, even if not passively cooled.
I've seen this sort of look on some custom PC cooling related forum like 20 years ago; obviously it wasn't running an inverted-CPU mainboard, it was just a water cooled fanless PC with some car rad hanging off the side of of it. And i think some company even built a radiator into that wall into an actual tower enclosure you could buy, like also a ridiculous long time ago, looked pretty impressive. What irks me is that there is then here all that empty space in the enclosure in the CPU region! Not me buying a Scythe Grand Kama Cross to fill out the well such that you can't put a finger in around it, no, oh wait, just kidding, of course i did that! I actually started designing a fanless enclosure myself sometime in 2004 but never got around to even finishing the design on paper/CAD or anything because well at the time it was a fine idea, ITX was just starting to get widespread and i had a geforce 6600 gt which is pretty easy to cool, and Conrad just started selling individual heatpipes that you can bend for a custom heatsink; but then things have been developing in the direction where if it's going in the general gaming/creative PC direction that just isn't gonna cut it, particularly since 2006ish actually. Pentium 4 was particularly yikes but you could get Pentium M mainboards as well, but a short time later, that wasn't going to cut it.
@@daviddebroux4708 Just heard that in both Patrick Star's voice AND Patrick Stone's voice (and of course Patrick Lathan's voice) in my head! 🤣 EDIT: Changed "other Patrick's" to "Patrick Lathan's". Best to credit everyone correctly rather than half-arse-ing it.
I love how much more comfortable Patrick is in front of the camera now, compared to the first time I saw him (years ago). I really appreciate all the hard work the GN team does. You guys go above and beyond, I can't think of anyone that compares. You really deserve all the support and recognition.
Who wants an i5-8400 revisit though? Besides, even if for some bizarre reason you really wanted it you might as well just substitute 9400 they’re basically the same.
A few minor points of wisdom that I've garnered from a few passive/wall-mount systems... 1. Low power is good. You probably don't NEED as much power as you think. Cooling becomes much harder with every watt you add. 2. Use the 'chimney effect'. Seriously. Even a fan-less heat-sink requires SOME airflow. It needs somewhere to dump the heat. Mounting it inside an enclosure that is only open near the floor and ceiling creates a passive channel to get cool air in (floor) and hot air out (ceiling).
to test a thing, you have to have something without the thing and with the thing to compare it, or at least to have a difference, to be able to work with
@@hoffer_moment close, but not competely the idea. You want to have 2 identical things, with just the thing you are testing is different. Like BIOS v1 vs v2 or alike. So if testing the impact of comments you would upload a video with the comments open and with the comments closed. Also this should be a normal thing, otherwise other errors come in. So wrong method^^
Would recommend running a Silverstone nightjar 450w SFX SFX-L PSU with a SFX to ATX bracket. It is a fully enclosed PSU with the heatsinks built into the housing. It will run quieter and cooler.
Agreed. Built my mother-in-law a fanless 11600 system using the Noctua block and the Nightjar. Works faultlessly and is more than sufficient for her photoshop work.
@@Aeysir imho pointless to have a fanless build when you can easily have a silent build with silent fans like the Gentletyphoon or Noctua NF-A12x25 (below 1000RPM)
This is the first step of every noise test - you need to measure your noise floor because that sets a lower bound on the kind of noise you can measure.
Patrick Lathan is hilarious in his own way but Patrick Stone is my favorite person on the team, he got the energy and good vibes, his presence makes vid 69 times better.
I love this! I have a friend who gets incredibly sensitive to noise levels, and we are trying to build her a "quiet" pc. It's such a fun project because the focus is not performance or aesthetics.
There are alot of mini pcs that have lowpower or adjustable power cpus (15w+) that are supprisingly quite powerful. Would probably lend very well to a full silent build.
During my adventures towards a low-noise build, I found that soundproofing the case further with something like those high-density car soundproofing materials (likely at the cost of smell, though) worked really well. Even in "sound-focused" cases, blocking the superfluous unpopulated ventilation areas (read: extra holes) gave a lot. Eventually, I even managed to conquer an HDD that was emitting higher-pitched plate whine otherwise, pretty impressive!
@@Lishtenbird I have done that with thick dynamat + dynaliner inside case when I had my rig. It was pretty goofy to get it smoothly inside the case ,but the thing was quieter after that. I also noticed the panel with largest air intake (usually front panel) caused some noise to leak like faint whine from HDD, turned the PC sideways against wall and that whine was gone
@@StaticVapour590 Depending on available space outside (and esthetic preferences), things like IKEA office desk separators also work as a final step against leakage.
For years I've wondered why they don't put the cpu on the bottom of the motherboard. This makes so much sense. Finally someone takes a step in the right direction.
As a fiend for silent computing myself, this build makes me happy. I have two computers I switch between, one running Linux on a humble G4600 which can be passively cooled just fine with a basic large tower cooler with the fan removed (some bequiet! darkrock in my case) and a DC-DC picoPSU adapter instead of a traditional power supply. The fun part is that the AC-DC adapter I'm using is from an old eeePC and is only rated for around 30W which has been fine and stable for years now in this configuration so long as I don't load it with large transients like hotplugging a 3.5" HDD. Idles at under 20W otherwise. The other computer's for modest VR gaming but I still spent way too much on custom CPU+GPU water cooling to complement a 1070 that's power limited to 75W just to make sure the rad fans never have to spin over 800RPM. And even so, I wouldn't mind piping the water to an enormous passive radiator if it wouldn't be several hundred extra dollars in raw metal, likely. Not terribly looking forward to upgrading the GPU since power draw (and thus thermal load) has been ballooning so much.
You can buy fully passive PC cases that have inbuilt heatsinks for up to 600W heat dissipation. Match that with a semi passive Seasonic platinum PSU and you can get a 3080 and 12900K ENTIRELY silent
Patrick just likes to stand in brightly lit rooms...no need to question it. See what happened was Steve told him to stand over there like a month ago and dude just hasn't moved. Dedicated to the max
I realize building custom PCs is not your usual content here, but I offer a challenge (That could even go out to you, Jay, Linus, others): Build the most powerful noiseless and fan-less PC possible (and no semi-test bench style cheating- in an actual case with panels even if just a grate- call it cat proof). But that will require getting something like an ARCTIC Accelero S3 Passive Graphics Card Cooler and a compatible sub 140 watt(?) GPU unless you stick with stock passive cooled products (which are all weak old GPUs now). I still remember how loud the office was in the 90s when I first started an office job: hard drives sounding like broken shredders, loud high pitched cooling fans, CRT monitor buzz, and the deafening printers. OMG the printers. Life is so much better now. Though I do miss the much more mechanical feeling "basic" keyboards from back then even though they were loud and dummy thicc. The mice did suck though. Back to the topic at hand- the power of lower end hardware is quite good now, and this motherboard and cooler really make a fan-less desktop PC a possibility. Honestly, this is something that the prebuild workstation sellers (Dell, HP, etc) should totally be doing now. No/Low maintenance and quiet fan-less prebuilt desktops should already be a thing. Imagine Dell trying to make one of those Alienware plastic pods fan-less. Lol.
In regards to noise from power supplies and VRMs. There is a few things to consider. Firstly is that most PSUs and VRMs operate in the 60-300 kHz frequency range when it comes to switching, this won't produce much noise, even though a lot of coil whine actually is there. However, a lot of switchmode controllers do have a low power mode where they start skipping cycles. Ie only sending over power intermittently and relying on output capacitance to keep the output voltage within spec. This usually reduces the switching frequency by a lot, and this can send it into the audible range, but at very low loads where PWM modulation isn't sufficient. (typically less than 5% load.) The thing that however can make noise is load variations. Like that of an application running in a more cyclic fashion. One of the common examples of this is graphics rendering and frame delivery, since during rendering, texture mapping, shading and potential image scaling, we don't expect all of these to consume the same exact amount of power, and since the graphics processing workload is more or less stepping through the above one at a time then the VRM load variations will vary over the course of each rendered frame. This more or less gives us a few tones in the frequency spectrum that is some multiple of our frame rate. But a lot of other applications can cause a cyclic load, or just bursts of activity. The later tends to cause a more sporadic ticking sound. But there is solutions to "coil whine", thermal pads pressing against the inductors will help dampen the vibrations and therefor the noise. Gluing components down to the board can also reduce noise. Though, some coil whine from larger transformers comes from leaked magnetic flux pulling and pushing on the surrounding metal case. Here one can either add a stiff rubber/foam pillar to dampen this vibration. Or one can wrap a mu-metal shield around the transformer to contain the magnetic flux, this however tends to require unsoldering the transformer.
Surprisingly, this is the first passively cooled desktop pc I've see. Very cool! I'm so used to hearing the sound of fans ramp up whenever I turn a computer on.
I’m looking forward to seeing how their off-the-shelf results compare to the bespoke systems from FullySilentPCs (youtube and website) as I’d be happy to be able to save some money for one of my clients. A fully silent one would be a waste where I currently rent because of the ambient noise levels, but hopefully that will change in the future. :)
Two things . . 1) people seem to be very concerned about the passive coolers, cooling fin, orientation. 2) I think my legs are actually whiter than Mr. Stones'. I'm liking these 'GN Extras' videos. Thanks
"This is a dumb idea, why would you make a video out of it?" 5 mins in, watching Patrick actually describe where noises are coming from in the power supply in different loads .... You guys have a way of making things interesting that I don't know how to describe. In hindsight, it is actually a really interesting build. Priorities completely shifted away from what one would consider "normal" - high power, high performance. It was interesting to see how it shifted the ideas about what you even WANT to have build in the first place. No XMP, no overclock, no super high end CPU or GPU because the priority is completely different.
I've run into these PSUs working as stage tech. We use computer PSUs when we need to drive various scenery lights or low current motors. Fan less are best as they aren't going to suck up any smoke effects, or explode if a curtain or scenery blocks it off when pulled up into the grid. Never heard anyone complain about them and it's pretty easy for gear to get put on most mech's shitlist - if a show gets ruined it's on us - so...
Ive been using a seasonic passive power supply in one of my servers for 10 years now. still works great, every couple years i tear it down and blow out any dust.
I know it may seem insignificant, but do you think cooler orientation matters in this circumstance considering it’s passive? I wonder if having the big side on the top or having the fin gaps parallel to the direction of natural heat rising would yield cooler temperatures
I think it's one of those "it depends" kind of problems. On one hand, yes, you could end up inducing some nice natural convection. However, you're also just passing already warm air over your fins.
Wee, I'm stoked about focusing on noise and quiet builds. It's be a meager field since Silentpcreview went silent (get it?) and was bought. I'm really looking forward to good sound testing of pc components
I obviously don't do anything resembling the rigorous testing you guys do, but anecdotally, I have been very happily running a Seasonic passive power supply in my living room server for some time now, it's so quiet I'm tempted to get one for my main rig. Looking forward to GNs testing and impressions of one.
For those that people that aren't using a silent PC for noise testing it might be worth considering something like a Corsair RM850 that doesn't spin up the fan until you hit 340W. I just built a media PC using the parts that I had on hand and a 4790(non-k) with a GTX 1070 (Strix) untweaked running Furmark and prime95 came in under the PSU fan spin-up power threshold. The NH-D15 only spun up under artificial loads and the 1070 with some tweaking didn't spin up in non-gaming/non-furmark loads. So not actually silent, but it'll be silent as a media PC. Speedfan / Argus Monitor is useful for fan control.
Reminds me of the good old days when I used to build ridiculously silent PCs, such as my undervolted Northwood C in an Antec Sonata case. Passive CPU cooler, nearly silent GPU, and a single exhaust fan in the power supply to move air in and out. LOL It sounds like a horrible thing to do to a PC (especially if you know the Antec Sonata case) but as long as you bought the right parts and undervolted them, there really wasn't much heat to build up. The PSU moved just enough air that you could game on it without runaway thermals, and regular workloads, no worries.
I know Mistel as a maker of split mechanical keyboards, was very surprised to see a power supply under the same brand (and I've checked, they really do make both keyboards and PSUs!)
Related to the coil whine of the PSU - during measurement (fan testing) you can use a low pass filter (cutoff starting at 8kHz?) during data acquisition, or better, a notch filter at the switching frequency of the PSU to eliminate that noise.
There's definitely a hobbyist community getting Z170/Z270 boards running up to 9th gen CPUs. Currently typing this using a Maximus VIII Hero Z170 board with a 9900KS. Works great!
I'm wondering if that acrylic panel isn't just for looks, but also there as a safety feature. Potentially the cooler could get pretty hot, and you don't want someone accidentally bumping into hot metal, especially in an industrial environment where sudden unexpected pain might cause someone to mishandle a power-tool.
I was wondering if it would aid cooling...as the heat rises it may start a convection current that draws cooler air from the cooler base and over / through the fins as it rises?
For the v 2.0 passive build you can throw in a graphics card as well. Palit sells a fully passive SKU for lower end GPUs (called KalmX), if I remember correctly the best current offering is a GTX 1650. I personally have a KalmX 750 ti on a secondary low end build, still works wonderfully for its purpose.
Cool stuff. When I build computers I give it the expectation of full speed capabilities, capability of handling full load multithreaded multitasking scenarios without crashing and zero chance of thermal throttle. Overclocking headroom is kind of something I reserve for a main workstation and it only applies to my servers on a case by case basis. This silent build looks completely outrageous and while it's something I'm probably never going to do, it's great to see someone out there has at least tried to make it happen. Outside of industrial use and recording, it would be exceptional for testing PCI-E devices with high chance of coil whine. My PowerColor RX 580 comes to mind.
I have a 1200W PSU and in 5 years I have never seen the fan spin except for a brief moment when the system comes on. Since the PSU never gets hot enough to run the fan at any time that I can load it down, I think it would qualify as "passive" as a fan never actually keeps it cool. Design and components plays a real key role!
But Steve, did you get that thunderbolt card to work? I really want to add thunderbolt to more systems and if I can get around that pesky header requirement that would be killer!
Anybody can buy a CompuLab air top PC and call it a day. Now this takes true ingenuity! I've always wanted to see the reverse socket motherboard have a use.
I really do like my coasters. They are a serious upgrade to my folded wash cloth coaster. Something that can't be understated is the way they stay in place on the table. This is vital for intense gaming sessions!!
Looking at the horizontal fins on that giant cooler, I suspect it will perform better on it's side so that the vins are vertical. Just throw the whole case on it's side and re-test.
My only concern with the power supply is that if you're testing a passive unit, OTP is extra important. Of course, at such low loads, it's probably not too much of an issue. It just makes me look forward to a more fleshed out testing process in the future. Keep up the good work!
I'd be interested in seeing a video explaining all of the settings in BIOS, as well as how to configure many of them. or even just going through how you guys go about configuring them on systems you build.
Yessssssssssssss GN extras content you guys should do a blooper reel sometime :) does Steve really get those pieces to camera right the first time without misspeaking? but they would be so long to re-record, and they rarely (but sometimes) have cuts in the audio when B-roll is being shown, and even more rarely is there a cut in the video when Steve is talking to the camera. (but that's an extremely high-quality trait of the production style that really does make it come off like a Real News Production at a huge news outlet.)
I hope this reverse motherboards gets some interest from the market. This leaves potentially a lot of space for an ideal GPU passive cooler (or something more real with fans turned off up to 80% load)
After the Gigabyte fiasco, I would be terrified to hold that power supply up to my face like Patrick did. Especially with a brand they have never heard of
Freaking sweet little work horse that. BTW love the green of the second channel reminds me it's yall but it's different idk I like it lol good job guys
About that cooler, I am wondering if it were't more effective to have the fins arranged vertically, so that you get more work out of convection currents carrying the hot air away.
Convention of heat rising is not as thermally effective as airflow, which typically flows horizontally. So probably not since most of the time air doesn't flow from the ground or from above.
@@Dracossaint Yeah that makes sense. I've heard from a thermodynamics professor that convection makes a measurable difference in fridges (he said to put beer cans vertically in the fridge), but I can see how an entire big room is a rather different situation than the inside of a fridge.
I came to the comments to say that Mistel is "known" for their wired split mechanical keyboards. Something something ergonomics. If it's the same Mistel as the keyboard OEM, interesting portfolio diversity..
@@gnextras Their most notable keyboard would be the Mistel Barocco MD770 which is one of the more quality ergonomic split mechanical keyboard you can buy out there for its price. I had to compare the logos and they're indeed the same company, lines up with the review by TechPowerUP too.
@@gnextras they have a wired split keyboard that has an average reputation- I believe the Mistel Borocco has kind of a stepping stone of "I want to try ergo split keyboard layouts, but not spend over $200" And then people buy one to try the novelty of it, and then realize why they should probably spend more than $200+ on an ergo split keyboard design. TLDR They work well, aren't pieces of junk, and review just fine, but they're not winning any awards- other than probably a lot people's first split ergo mechanical keyboard.
I found the video interesting. I have no interest at all in gaming but I do have a PC in my electronic music studio where noise is a concern. I just upgraded the motherboard, CPU and DRAM this month. When I started shopping for the MB I was surprised, and annoyed, to find that virtually all MB's are advertised as "gaming PC's". It was almost impossible to find a MB with the number of PCIe expansion slots I need for the GPU, MOTU audio interface Firewire card and two five port USB 3.0 expansion cards. I ended up with an MSI Pro Z690-A Wi-Fi (I also didn't need Wi-Fi, all stationary PC's are Ethernet connected). My solution to noise reduction is a custom built acoustic enclosure. Even with a case fan, GPU fan, CPU heat pipe fan and the PSU fan the only audible noise is when the CPU cooler fan temporarily speeds up on occasion or the slight rattle of a hard drive (there are four hard drives). The one thing you didn't cover in the video is the cost of your custom build.
Would enjoy a lot more passive content in the future, so the nhp1 would be a great follow up. I'd love a passive system for video editing but that's a long shot
NH-P1 works great in the Torrent for a semi-passive build. Torrent Compact can also fit it but I had to make some small but unnoticeable mods to make it go. The 180mm fans in the Fractals work really well with the NH-P1, GPU fans become the long pole in the tent.
It wouldn't shock me if the supply chain issues has hit them extra hard due to the potential for lower volume with an even more narrow margin for profit.
I would love for you to test for coil whine in your standard tests of components (gpus, motherboards, power supplies etc), as I'm interested in silent computers. I generally buy semi-passive components so that they are silent under low and idle load. (I find it less annoying if it makes a little noise for a short burst of code compiling or such. And when gaming, the game is usually louder than my noctua fans anyway.)
One interesting thing I've heard of Mistel before but I actually know them for their keyboards, they aren't exactly a super big player in the keyboard hobby though.
Weird thought but you could use a ducting system to generate airflow through thermal convection, pulling air across MOSFETs by using the CPU heatsink at the top of a chimney to move the air up through the column. Probably easier to do mineral oil but it would be cool to see how much air you could move that way.
For your measurement rig you would want a low noise PSU nut only acoustically low noise but low of electrical noise EMC/EMI as well. The analog high gain capacitor microphones (and ADCs) are somewhat susceptible to electrical noise.
Fortunately, our noise testing is not yet sophisticated enough where that will come into play. We'll need to worry about that in the big chamber, though.
Speaking as a EE, what you need for that is real and true isolation of the power planes of the ADC. Doesn't matter how good the source is (as long as its powered separately not from dodgy usb bus which can be cluttered with extra crap) if the ADC's timing leaks into the analog plane
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I was wondering why for the lab you would not just run a wires for a Pc through the walls and insulate/ sound proof around them as to not disrupt the lab. And just have the pc outside
You didn't check the pet noise level test. If a cat or dog will hear with subsonic noise. Sorry snowflake!
I wonder which would be cooler, 8086k with disabled cores or that 8400, using the same cooler.
I don't remember how heatpipes should be mounted all that well but shouldn't the pointy end be upwards or to the side and never downwards ? I feel like I remember something about this from vertical itx cases for gpus. I've been looking forward to this since you guys showed em off for the first time.
Try out T series CPUs like the i7-12700T - 35W base, 99W max turbo PL2 and pair it with the Noctua passive heatsink. Modern power & features that's more relevant to a 2020 video imho.
You'd have to go with a standard ATX/mATX/ITX mobo (haven't seen a Z690 "reversee") but that's more 'real world' for your audience :)
I know it's not the point of the passive build, but if silence and cool temps is the goal (rather than zero dust) you may also be surprised at how adding several Noctua NF-A12x25 fans at 1000RPM or below are still completely inaudible and probably indestinguishable from background even by a dBA meter (although sound profiling for low, med, and high pitch should also be considered - something the NF-A12x25 still does well while cheaper Arctic P12 does very poorly)
Not a particularly constructive comment, but I like the unusual looks of that huge heatsink hanging out the back of the case. Gives it a kind of hot rod vibe.
yeah, this is defenitely cool, even though with an active system, cleaning is defenitely a thing
I am in the same boat, looks really cool!
I already liked that look, but then seeing it with a glass panel over it really completed the look for me. (not the hotrod look, but a look lol)
Ooh, now I want to see a hot rod themed pc build with a heatsink like this one, even if not passively cooled.
Looks sick
I've seen this sort of look on some custom PC cooling related forum like 20 years ago; obviously it wasn't running an inverted-CPU mainboard, it was just a water cooled fanless PC with some car rad hanging off the side of of it. And i think some company even built a radiator into that wall into an actual tower enclosure you could buy, like also a ridiculous long time ago, looked pretty impressive.
What irks me is that there is then here all that empty space in the enclosure in the CPU region! Not me buying a Scythe Grand Kama Cross to fill out the well such that you can't put a finger in around it, no, oh wait, just kidding, of course i did that!
I actually started designing a fanless enclosure myself sometime in 2004 but never got around to even finishing the design on paper/CAD or anything because well at the time it was a fine idea, ITX was just starting to get widespread and i had a geforce 6600 gt which is pretty easy to cool, and Conrad just started selling individual heatpipes that you can bend for a custom heatsink; but then things have been developing in the direction where if it's going in the general gaming/creative PC direction that just isn't gonna cut it, particularly since 2006ish actually. Pentium 4 was particularly yikes but you could get Pentium M mainboards as well, but a short time later, that wasn't going to cut it.
Almost first. Notice me senpai
lol.
Hi Patrick
Benchmark me, airflow daddy
@@TuffMcAwesome oh, dear god.
@@AmericanBadger87 uwu
You know it's a serious project when they chose to deploy 2 Patricks to the job
"Is this Gamers Nexus?"
"No, this is Patrick."
@@daviddebroux4708 lmao
top tier thread
@@daviddebroux4708
Just heard that in both Patrick Star's voice AND Patrick Stone's voice (and of course Patrick Lathan's voice) in my head! 🤣
EDIT: Changed "other Patrick's" to "Patrick Lathan's". Best to credit everyone correctly rather than half-arse-ing it.
@@patrickkearney8774 real life Patrick from spongebob, if you are willing to wear a costume, GN could probably use some comedic breaks.. :P
I love how much more comfortable Patrick is in front of the camera now, compared to the first time I saw him (years ago). I really appreciate all the hard work the GN team does. You guys go above and beyond, I can't think of anyone that compares. You really deserve all the support and recognition.
Baby Steveus
He'll be stripping real soon
Love "It'll be a pain but.. we'll get over it", that's the fucking spirit Patrick
Who wants an i5-8400 revisit though? Besides, even if for some bizarre reason you really wanted it you might as well just substitute 9400 they’re basically the same.
A few minor points of wisdom that I've garnered from a few passive/wall-mount systems...
1. Low power is good. You probably don't NEED as much power as you think. Cooling becomes much harder with every watt you add.
2. Use the 'chimney effect'. Seriously. Even a fan-less heat-sink requires SOME airflow. It needs somewhere to dump the heat. Mounting it inside an enclosure that is only open near the floor and ceiling creates a passive channel to get cool air in (floor) and hot air out (ceiling).
Excellent points.
GN: buys the dream machine for testing fans
Also GN: immediately builds a fanless system
to test a thing, you have to have something without the thing and with the thing to compare it, or at least to have a difference, to be able to work with
@@hoffer_moment close, but not competely the idea.
You want to have 2 identical things, with just the thing you are testing is different.
Like BIOS v1 vs v2 or alike.
So if testing the impact of comments you would upload a video with the comments open and with the comments closed.
Also this should be a normal thing, otherwise other errors come in.
So wrong method^^
None of you can take a joke...
Yes, establishing a baseline is important. decibel is a relative power - it's not an absolute. 0db is 2x10-5 pascals (N/m2)
@@stanimir4197 Which baseline? The one between Who and What or the one between What and I Don't Know?!?
I love the green logo it looks great!
Would recommend running a Silverstone nightjar 450w SFX SFX-L PSU with a SFX to ATX bracket. It is a fully enclosed PSU with the heatsinks built into the housing. It will run quieter and cooler.
HDPLEX is also a good option.
I would also look at the Seasonic fully passive PSUs
@@katherinesilens2994 are you half pizza half pickles ?
Agreed. Built my mother-in-law a fanless 11600 system using the Noctua block and the Nightjar. Works faultlessly and is more than sufficient for her photoshop work.
@@Aeysir imho pointless to have a fanless build when you can easily have a silent build with silent fans like the Gentletyphoon or Noctua NF-A12x25 (below 1000RPM)
Actually, this is like a REALLY famous power supply, or whatever.
GN pushing the boundaries of physics. This is the stuff I'm here for. First test for your noise chamber is to measure the sound of silence.
Also known as the noise floor :)
They're big Simon & Garfunkel fans
@@Tom5TomEntertainment can't wait to see how they do in GN's new fan tester
@@Tom5TomEntertainment Hopefully. The Disturbed cover is a lot louder :p
This is the first step of every noise test - you need to measure your noise floor because that sets a lower bound on the kind of noise you can measure.
Actually, Mistel is fairly well known for their quirky split/ergo keyboards (like the Barocco). I honestly had no idea they'd gone into PSUs as well!
I thought the brand name seemed familiar but couldn't place it. I've probably seen one of their keyboards pop up a few times.
Neat.
Yea I’m
Patrick Lathan is hilarious in his own way but Patrick Stone is my favorite person on the team, he got the energy and good vibes, his presence makes vid 69 times better.
I love this! I have a friend who gets incredibly sensitive to noise levels, and we are trying to build her a "quiet" pc. It's such a fun project because the focus is not performance or aesthetics.
There are alot of mini pcs that have lowpower or adjustable power cpus (15w+) that are supprisingly quite powerful. Would probably lend very well to a full silent build.
During my adventures towards a low-noise build, I found that soundproofing the case further with something like those high-density car soundproofing materials (likely at the cost of smell, though) worked really well. Even in "sound-focused" cases, blocking the superfluous unpopulated ventilation areas (read: extra holes) gave a lot. Eventually, I even managed to conquer an HDD that was emitting higher-pitched plate whine otherwise, pretty impressive!
@@Lishtenbird I have done that with thick dynamat + dynaliner inside case when I had my rig. It was pretty goofy to get it smoothly inside the case ,but the thing was quieter after that. I also noticed the panel with largest air intake (usually front panel) caused some noise to leak like faint whine from HDD, turned the PC sideways against wall and that whine was gone
@R All my SSD slots are populated, and my wallet no longer is. People happen to have different use cases, y'know.
@@StaticVapour590 Depending on available space outside (and esthetic preferences), things like IKEA office desk separators also work as a final step against leakage.
For years I've wondered why they don't put the cpu on the bottom of the motherboard. This makes so much sense. Finally someone takes a step in the right direction.
As a fiend for silent computing myself, this build makes me happy. I have two computers I switch between, one running Linux on a humble G4600 which can be passively cooled just fine with a basic large tower cooler with the fan removed (some bequiet! darkrock in my case) and a DC-DC picoPSU adapter instead of a traditional power supply. The fun part is that the AC-DC adapter I'm using is from an old eeePC and is only rated for around 30W which has been fine and stable for years now in this configuration so long as I don't load it with large transients like hotplugging a 3.5" HDD. Idles at under 20W otherwise.
The other computer's for modest VR gaming but I still spent way too much on custom CPU+GPU water cooling to complement a 1070 that's power limited to 75W just to make sure the rad fans never have to spin over 800RPM. And even so, I wouldn't mind piping the water to an enormous passive radiator if it wouldn't be several hundred extra dollars in raw metal, likely. Not terribly looking forward to upgrading the GPU since power draw (and thus thermal load) has been ballooning so much.
You can buy fully passive PC cases that have inbuilt heatsinks for up to 600W heat dissipation. Match that with a semi passive Seasonic platinum PSU and you can get a 3080 and 12900K ENTIRELY silent
As I have gotten older I have learned to appreciate silent performance so much more. Thanks for all your brain power so I don't have to.
Patrick just likes to stand in brightly lit rooms...no need to question it. See what happened was Steve told him to stand over there like a month ago and dude just hasn't moved. Dedicated to the max
I realize building custom PCs is not your usual content here, but I offer a challenge (That could even go out to you, Jay, Linus, others): Build the most powerful noiseless and fan-less PC possible (and no semi-test bench style cheating- in an actual case with panels even if just a grate- call it cat proof). But that will require getting something like an ARCTIC Accelero S3 Passive Graphics Card Cooler and a compatible sub 140 watt(?) GPU unless you stick with stock passive cooled products (which are all weak old GPUs now). I still remember how loud the office was in the 90s when I first started an office job: hard drives sounding like broken shredders, loud high pitched cooling fans, CRT monitor buzz, and the deafening printers. OMG the printers. Life is so much better now. Though I do miss the much more mechanical feeling "basic" keyboards from back then even though they were loud and dummy thicc. The mice did suck though. Back to the topic at hand- the power of lower end hardware is quite good now, and this motherboard and cooler really make a fan-less desktop PC a possibility. Honestly, this is something that the prebuild workstation sellers (Dell, HP, etc) should totally be doing now. No/Low maintenance and quiet fan-less prebuilt desktops should already be a thing. Imagine Dell trying to make one of those Alienware plastic pods fan-less. Lol.
It is really cool that you're finding a use for the Things you've reviewed in the past instead of them just taking up on your shelf.
Great topic, thanks for bringing us along. I really like the more informal (but still very professionally made) approach that you get with GN Extras.
In regards to noise from power supplies and VRMs.
There is a few things to consider.
Firstly is that most PSUs and VRMs operate in the 60-300 kHz frequency range when it comes to switching, this won't produce much noise, even though a lot of coil whine actually is there.
However, a lot of switchmode controllers do have a low power mode where they start skipping cycles. Ie only sending over power intermittently and relying on output capacitance to keep the output voltage within spec. This usually reduces the switching frequency by a lot, and this can send it into the audible range, but at very low loads where PWM modulation isn't sufficient. (typically less than 5% load.)
The thing that however can make noise is load variations. Like that of an application running in a more cyclic fashion.
One of the common examples of this is graphics rendering and frame delivery, since during rendering, texture mapping, shading and potential image scaling, we don't expect all of these to consume the same exact amount of power, and since the graphics processing workload is more or less stepping through the above one at a time then the VRM load variations will vary over the course of each rendered frame. This more or less gives us a few tones in the frequency spectrum that is some multiple of our frame rate.
But a lot of other applications can cause a cyclic load, or just bursts of activity. The later tends to cause a more sporadic ticking sound.
But there is solutions to "coil whine", thermal pads pressing against the inductors will help dampen the vibrations and therefor the noise. Gluing components down to the board can also reduce noise.
Though, some coil whine from larger transformers comes from leaked magnetic flux pulling and pushing on the surrounding metal case. Here one can either add a stiff rubber/foam pillar to dampen this vibration. Or one can wrap a mu-metal shield around the transformer to contain the magnetic flux, this however tends to require unsoldering the transformer.
Surprisingly, this is the first passively cooled desktop pc I've see. Very cool! I'm so used to hearing the sound of fans ramp up whenever I turn a computer on.
I’m looking forward to seeing how their off-the-shelf results compare to the bespoke systems from FullySilentPCs (youtube and website) as I’d be happy to be able to save some money for one of my clients.
A fully silent one would be a waste where I currently rent because of the ambient noise levels, but hopefully that will change in the future. :)
Two things . . 1) people seem to be very concerned about the passive coolers, cooling fin, orientation. 2) I think my legs are actually whiter than Mr. Stones'.
I'm liking these 'GN Extras' videos. Thanks
I didn't even realize this was the extras channel until you said something. I'm a simple man, I see Steve, I watch the video.
"This is a dumb idea, why would you make a video out of it?"
5 mins in, watching Patrick actually describe where noises are coming from in the power supply in different loads
.... You guys have a way of making things interesting that I don't know how to describe.
In hindsight, it is actually a really interesting build. Priorities completely shifted away from what one would consider "normal" - high power, high performance. It was interesting to see how it shifted the ideas about what you even WANT to have build in the first place. No XMP, no overclock, no super high end CPU or GPU because the priority is completely different.
I see Patrick is catching up to Steve's hair.
It would be quite a thing if Stone does too
I've run into these PSUs working as stage tech. We use computer PSUs when we need to drive various scenery lights or low current motors. Fan less are best as they aren't going to suck up any smoke effects, or explode if a curtain or scenery blocks it off when pulled up into the grid. Never heard anyone complain about them and it's pretty easy for gear to get put on most mech's shitlist - if a show gets ruined it's on us - so...
Noice! I get a notification somewhat on time! Just started, can't wait to see the thermals
Ive been using a seasonic passive power supply in one of my servers for 10 years now. still works great, every couple years i tear it down and blow out any dust.
20:02 I enjoy watching specific, purpose-filled builds like this too, thanks steve!
I love this type of stuff! Excited to see all the stuff that ends up on this channel.
Super cool to see one of these built for an actual reason
I love the new logo, I'd like to be able to buy merchandise in this color, even if it's just limited edition, love your work, keep it up!
I know it may seem insignificant, but do you think cooler orientation matters in this circumstance considering it’s passive? I wonder if having the big side on the top or having the fin gaps parallel to the direction of natural heat rising would yield cooler temperatures
That's what I was thinking - probably could improve on the design
wraparound the top of case would be the best I imagine
Adjustable suction cups mounts for different case widths
I think it's one of those "it depends" kind of problems. On one hand, yes, you could end up inducing some nice natural convection. However, you're also just passing already warm air over your fins.
A LOT
bought my coasters! happy to support such a great channel!
Man.. these new GN Extras videos are venomous!
Wee, I'm stoked about focusing on noise and quiet builds. It's be a meager field since Silentpcreview went silent (get it?) and was bought.
I'm really looking forward to good sound testing of pc components
Hi Steve I think you were limping a bit, I hope everything is ok with your health! Thanks for all the work you guys do.
I obviously don't do anything resembling the rigorous testing you guys do, but anecdotally, I have been very happily running a Seasonic passive power supply in my living room server for some time now, it's so quiet I'm tempted to get one for my main rig. Looking forward to GNs testing and impressions of one.
For those that people that aren't using a silent PC for noise testing it might be worth considering something like a Corsair RM850 that doesn't spin up the fan until you hit 340W. I just built a media PC using the parts that I had on hand and a 4790(non-k) with a GTX 1070 (Strix) untweaked running Furmark and prime95 came in under the PSU fan spin-up power threshold. The NH-D15 only spun up under artificial loads and the 1070 with some tweaking didn't spin up in non-gaming/non-furmark loads. So not actually silent, but it'll be silent as a media PC. Speedfan / Argus Monitor is useful for fan control.
Man, I love any video with the Paricks! Another great video!
Reminds me of the good old days when I used to build ridiculously silent PCs, such as my undervolted Northwood C in an Antec Sonata case. Passive CPU cooler, nearly silent GPU, and a single exhaust fan in the power supply to move air in and out. LOL It sounds like a horrible thing to do to a PC (especially if you know the Antec Sonata case) but as long as you bought the right parts and undervolted them, there really wasn't much heat to build up. The PSU moved just enough air that you could game on it without runaway thermals, and regular workloads, no worries.
I know Mistel as a maker of split mechanical keyboards, was very surprised to see a power supply under the same brand (and I've checked, they really do make both keyboards and PSUs!)
Related to the coil whine of the PSU - during measurement (fan testing) you can use a low pass filter (cutoff starting at 8kHz?) during data acquisition, or better, a notch filter at the switching frequency of the PSU to eliminate that noise.
There's definitely a hobbyist community getting Z170/Z270 boards running up to 9th gen CPUs. Currently typing this using a Maximus VIII Hero Z170 board with a 9900KS. Works great!
I've heard of Mistel but they're more well known for their mechanical keyboards. Definitely wasn't expecting to see a PSU from them.
I couldn't have clicked on this faster after your UA-cam post!
I'm wondering if that acrylic panel isn't just for looks, but also there as a safety feature. Potentially the cooler could get pretty hot, and you don't want someone accidentally bumping into hot metal, especially in an industrial environment where sudden unexpected pain might cause someone to mishandle a power-tool.
I was wondering if it would aid cooling...as the heat rises it may start a convection current that draws cooler air from the cooler base and over / through the fins as it rises?
@@johnlesoudeur3653 yes possible Stack effect or chimney effect
It'd be interesting to see a comparison between the NH-P1 and the ENCTEC passive heatsinks
For the v 2.0 passive build you can throw in a graphics card as well. Palit sells a fully passive SKU for lower end GPUs (called KalmX), if I remember correctly the best current offering is a GTX 1650. I personally have a KalmX 750 ti on a secondary low end build, still works wonderfully for its purpose.
No must make a passive _maximum_ performance PC!
Cool stuff. When I build computers I give it the expectation of full speed capabilities, capability of handling full load multithreaded multitasking scenarios without crashing and zero chance of thermal throttle. Overclocking headroom is kind of something I reserve for a main workstation and it only applies to my servers on a case by case basis. This silent build looks completely outrageous and while it's something I'm probably never going to do, it's great to see someone out there has at least tried to make it happen. Outside of industrial use and recording, it would be exceptional for testing PCI-E devices with high chance of coil whine. My PowerColor RX 580 comes to mind.
I have a 1200W PSU and in 5 years I have never seen the fan spin except for a brief moment when the system comes on. Since the PSU never gets hot enough to run the fan at any time that I can load it down, I think it would qualify as "passive" as a fan never actually keeps it cool. Design and components plays a real key role!
Keen to see how this system shapes up over time
But Steve, did you get that thunderbolt card to work? I really want to add thunderbolt to more systems and if I can get around that pesky header requirement that would be killer!
Anybody can buy a CompuLab air top PC and call it a day. Now this takes true ingenuity! I've always wanted to see the reverse socket motherboard have a use.
I really do like my coasters. They are a serious upgrade to my folded wash cloth coaster. Something that can't be understated is the way they stay in place on the table. This is vital for intense gaming sessions!!
Gotta say that "Master of silence" sounds badass for a title, like a legendary assassin, thief or spy XD
Your videos are getting so much better. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Looking at the horizontal fins on that giant cooler, I suspect it will perform better on it's side so that the vins are vertical. Just throw the whole case on it's side and re-test.
This is pretty cool. Thanks for sharing all this with us.
My only concern with the power supply is that if you're testing a passive unit, OTP is extra important. Of course, at such low loads, it's probably not too much of an issue. It just makes me look forward to a more fleshed out testing process in the future. Keep up the good work!
More content like this please!!! This will definitely gain more viewers, Please continue!
Love my GN Wire Frame Mouse Mat!
The concept that Patrick was an Elder Scrolls style NPC endlessly standing in one place until you interact with him was fantastic.
I always love watching the tall smart and chill bro Patrick! ❤️🤟😜
I have a seasonic passive 80+ platinum 520W PSU, very very high quality, thoroughly recommend
Thank your for showing us this!
I remember the first run of them coasters and how unexpectedly fast they sold . I got a pack and love them .
I'd be interested in seeing a video explaining all of the settings in BIOS, as well as how to configure many of them. or even just going through how you guys go about configuring them on systems you build.
Yessssssssssssss GN extras content
you guys should do a blooper reel sometime :) does Steve really get those pieces to camera right the first time without misspeaking? but they would be so long to re-record, and they rarely (but sometimes) have cuts in the audio when B-roll is being shown, and even more rarely is there a cut in the video when Steve is talking to the camera. (but that's an extremely high-quality trait of the production style that really does make it come off like a Real News Production at a huge news outlet.)
(I know Steve is just extremely well trained and is good at reading a script while enunciating and thinking about what he says)
Didnt know there even was an extras channel! Eek. Subscribed immediately.
an actually interesting video and you put it on the 2nd channel, damn
Interesting build. Thinking about building one to run my Skynet. Thanks
I hope this reverse motherboards gets some interest from the market. This leaves potentially a lot of space for an ideal GPU passive cooler (or something more real with fans turned off up to 80% load)
I loved this piece a lot. Silent but strong PC. Love to see more.
After the Gigabyte fiasco, I would be terrified to hold that power supply up to my face like Patrick did. Especially with a brand they have never heard of
I assume the no coil whine in the conclusion is at the target power as Stone reported some at other power levels.
that is one funky cool MB. Mounts backwards, nice!
I miss passive GPUs, I want to stick a 3090ti cooler on a 3060 to have a passive GPU again. Now if only I could buy either of them
You will get them back eventually. Low power GPUs will come back in a few Generations...
I'd be quite surprised if that worked passively, heh.
I misread that and thought you wanted a passively cooled 3090Ti.
Would be one hell of a project to be honest.
@@MrMartinSchou you'd have a cooler the size GN just put in that computer or bigger lol
Same I have a mini PC as my HTPC at the moment and it would be great to run a silent GPU using and m.2 adaptor.
I like the new workspace, so much room!
Also gotta love the cpu hoardin stock, so cool, GN turned into a self sufficient PC center lol
Freaking sweet little work horse that. BTW love the green of the second channel reminds me it's yall but it's different idk I like it lol good job guys
About that cooler, I am wondering if it were't more effective to have the fins arranged vertically, so that you get more work out of convection currents carrying the hot air away.
Exactly. Makes me wonder if they could rotate the mobo 90 instead. Would need a different cutout.
Convention of heat rising is not as thermally effective as airflow, which typically flows horizontally. So probably not since most of the time air doesn't flow from the ground or from above.
@@Dracossaint Yeah that makes sense. I've heard from a thermodynamics professor that convection makes a measurable difference in fridges (he said to put beer cans vertically in the fridge), but I can see how an entire big room is a rather different situation than the inside of a fridge.
@@Dracossaint oh God you are wrong. Air conduction is orders of magnitude lower than natural convection. Is makes HUGE difference
@@Dracossaint Where would horizontal airflow COME FROM? In a normal PC, fans enforce airflow direction. Here, no fans, not a single one.
I only know Mistel for their mechanical keyboards, never knew they made PSUs
Are their keyboards any good?
I only know them for their hot dog makers.
Oh wait thats mistral.
I came to the comments to say that Mistel is "known" for their wired split mechanical keyboards. Something something ergonomics.
If it's the same Mistel as the keyboard OEM, interesting portfolio diversity..
@@gnextras Their most notable keyboard would be the Mistel Barocco MD770 which is one of the more quality ergonomic split mechanical keyboard you can buy out there for its price.
I had to compare the logos and they're indeed the same company, lines up with the review by TechPowerUP too.
@@gnextras they have a wired split keyboard that has an average reputation- I believe the Mistel Borocco has kind of a stepping stone of "I want to try ergo split keyboard layouts, but not spend over $200"
And then people buy one to try the novelty of it, and then realize why they should probably spend more than $200+ on an ergo split keyboard design.
TLDR They work well, aren't pieces of junk, and review just fine, but they're not winning any awards- other than probably a lot people's first split ergo mechanical keyboard.
I found the video interesting. I have no interest at all in gaming but I do have a PC in my electronic music studio where noise is a concern. I just upgraded the motherboard, CPU and DRAM this month. When I started shopping for the MB I was surprised, and annoyed, to find that virtually all MB's are advertised as "gaming PC's". It was almost impossible to find a MB with the number of PCIe expansion slots I need for the GPU, MOTU audio interface Firewire card and two five port USB 3.0 expansion cards. I ended up with an MSI Pro Z690-A Wi-Fi (I also didn't need Wi-Fi, all stationary PC's are Ethernet connected). My solution to noise reduction is a custom built acoustic enclosure. Even with a case fan, GPU fan, CPU heat pipe fan and the PSU fan the only audible noise is when the CPU cooler fan temporarily speeds up on occasion or the slight rattle of a hard drive (there are four hard drives). The one thing you didn't cover in the video is the cost of your custom build.
This was a fun vid to watch!
Would enjoy a lot more passive content in the future, so the nhp1 would be a great follow up. I'd love a passive system for video editing but that's a long shot
Ps it looks like this passive video might get the most views yet on the new channel, very excited for y'all! Keep up the great work!
NH-P1 works great in the Torrent for a semi-passive build. Torrent Compact can also fit it but I had to make some small but unnoticeable mods to make it go. The 180mm fans in the Fractals work really well with the NH-P1, GPU fans become the long pole in the tent.
Would be cool to see this with a gpu with a Noctua NH-P1 put onto a GPU in the front of the case!
@Steve King not on a GPU, but on another CPU
How interesting about that Mistel power supply. They make one of the more budget split keyboards I use and love.
The build montage music was a nice surprise :)
Silverstone do some passive PSUs as well if you wanted other options. Most notably they do an SFX unit for small builds, but also an ATX one.
Enctec has been out of stock of everything for at least a year it seems, I hope intel didn't shut them down cause I want one of these boards
i want one for amd
It wouldn't shock me if the supply chain issues has hit them extra hard due to the potential for lower volume with an even more narrow margin for profit.
@@optiquest86 plus 7th to 9th gen is old. Not a lot of demand.
I would love for you to test for coil whine in your standard tests of components (gpus, motherboards, power supplies etc), as I'm interested in silent computers.
I generally buy semi-passive components so that they are silent under low and idle load. (I find it less annoying if it makes a little noise for a short burst of code compiling or such. And when gaming, the game is usually louder than my noctua fans anyway.)
This is amazing content! Great work GN crew!
One interesting thing I've heard of Mistel before but I actually know them for their keyboards, they aren't exactly a super big player in the keyboard hobby though.
This was built for "Passover"
I really love the different builds!
Weird thought but you could use a ducting system to generate airflow through thermal convection, pulling air across MOSFETs by using the CPU heatsink at the top of a chimney to move the air up through the column. Probably easier to do mineral oil but it would be cool to see how much air you could move that way.
For your measurement rig you would want a low noise PSU nut only acoustically low noise but low of electrical noise EMC/EMI as well.
The analog high gain capacitor microphones (and ADCs) are somewhat susceptible to electrical noise.
Fortunately, our noise testing is not yet sophisticated enough where that will come into play. We'll need to worry about that in the big chamber, though.
Speaking as a EE, what you need for that is real and true isolation of the power planes of the ADC. Doesn't matter how good the source is (as long as its powered separately not from dodgy usb bus which can be cluttered with extra crap) if the ADC's timing leaks into the analog plane
@@gnextras at that point you’d need to galvanically decouple the connections which is a whole different barrel of fish