Review of monitor calibration/profiling with the Datacolor Spyder X - basic settings and functions
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2021
- Keith Cooper looks at monitor calibration and profiling, using the SpyderX Elite from Datacolor. How many of the advanced functions do you need and what's a good approach for basic monitor calibration. Keith also talks about lighting and settings that may make getting accurate printing and print proofing and comparison easier.
There is a full review covering the range of Spyder X functionality at
www.northlight-images.co.uk/sp...
It also compare functionality between models, useful if you are not sure which level you might need.
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Thanks!
www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/
Very apropos. Had my Spyder X arrive on Monday - Thanks :)
Excellent - Do check the articles as well - there is only so much detail I can include in the videos
@@KeithCooper Wilco - Thanks
I got one of these after watching this review and found I should adjust my Mac monitor slightly. I like the subtle improvement. It also got me to turn down the room lighting and the monitor brightness to match recommended levels and I can see that helps the printing process even more. You get results more like what you're expecting, although as Keith says the two are different in principle and probably won't match exactly. What you get with this tool and process are results closer to what you're expecting, which will save fooling around and reprinting to get results you like.
Thanks for noting that
informative as always, thanks, Keith. I have a Spyder X ( had to get a new one as my older i studio (...) would not work with the calibration software that BenQ suggested using ( PMU Palette Master Utility ) Anyway my questions are: You are using the Xrite software here, and you saved the profile after monitor calibration. does the automatically correct the display ? And where is the "profile" saved / stored ( I have Mac mini coupled with BenQ SW272U )... Also do you suggest using Xrite software over the BenQ (PMU ) for calibration. I see in the Mac "Library" where my ICC paper profiles are imported / stored that there are different profiles and dates for screen etc..... How do I know which is "running" or does the hierarchy always run latest calibration that is stored. Sorry for "clumsy" sentence constructions - and again Thx big time. I hav high respect for your work. Russell J
For BenQ hardware calibrated monitors I only use the BenQ software.
Third party software [calibrite/X-rite/Datacolor] can't set the hardware.
The profiling software will place the profile and make it active.
One issue is that if you change the monitor setting [say to REC709 for video work] then the system won't change the monitor profile
That's why I always give profiles meaningful names.
The latest BenQ software handles things differently and I don't much like it [forced activation and creating an 'account'] - but I do have to use it to get full benefits from the screen hardware [see my various written BenQ reviews for more on this - not the videos, the 'real reviews']
Wondering if you have used or compared the BenQ with Eizo 4K ? Or Nec monitors. I have been following this series of yours and am trying to make an informed purchase. So calibration and profiling is a part of that. Thanks.
No, it's been some time since I had an Eizo and NEC monitor here to compare (see the Northlight site, the reviews long predates my making videos) As such they are well out of date.
for the price this BenQ is really good. The NEC's used to be great, but not sure if they have 32" 4K. Eizo is great, and the price maybe good for high production needs. I would get the BenQ. I haved used the Eizo and NEC, and now I use the Lenovo 32P-12(?). Its also a great screen and a steal when priced around $600-700
I love your videos Keith...simple practical use break-downs.
Hi Keith. Right now the Spyder Elite is on sale for the same price as the Spyder X Pro. I've already ordered the Pro version, but now wondering if I should get the Elite instead. However I don't want to get a calibrator that is complicated and has more features (and potential user confusion) than I will ever need. I just want to do a basic calibration of my monitor -- as simple and straightforward as possible without any extra frustrations. All I do is edit photos. Don't use projectors or scanners. Is the Spyder X Pro enough for my needs or would you recommend getting the Elite? Thanks and Happy New Year to you!
The simple guide is to look at functions where you can set different options - if you don't know why you would choose one over the other, it's a big hint you likely don't need it ;-)
The Pro will likely do just fine...
Datacolor has always had very good explanatory help in their software.
@@KeithCooper That's what I thought too -- probably overkill for me. Thanks, Keith.
@@KeithCooper By the way, the SpyderX Pro is on sale at B&H Photo for $99 U.S. dollars. A good deal I thought. Usually it's $159-169 U.S. dollars.
Dear Keith, if i use a factory calibrated display monitor and a professional photo printer, do I still need to buy a calibration system like from datacolor spyder or x-rite to calibrate those equipments to get more accurate printing results ?
'Factory calibrated' only refers to some specific aspects of the monitor setup. The big BenQ SW321 monitor I looked at has preset calibrations that are too bright for what I'd use. You need an external device to set it accurately and create a suitable profile for whatever computer you are using.
Apart from what 'professional' actually means for a printer, beyond a marketing term, the well set up monitor will assist in getting better and more consistent print results - accuracy does not come in to it unless you are doing pre-press work, which is a whole different area.
So, yes, for high quality photo printing it is needed - cheap or expensive monitor.
What you probably don't need are the options found in the top of range display calibrators. So for example, all Spyder X models use what is effectively the same device.
When doing my gamma, kelvin etc, settings before starting the monitor calibration, I click the advanced settings option at the bottom and then select "better" in order to get more precise grey calibration. It says the default setting is quicker, but honestly, spending a few seconds more to get the best possible result is fine by me. I do my edits in a dark room, with all lights turned off, and I choose the settings recommended by the software (after it did the ambient lighting measurement). It may differ from the default values (surely because of the "very low" lighting conditions) but it always worked good for me (with Syder X and the 3 previous versions I used)
In general, working in a dark room is not advised because of the way it changes elements of our vision. The other thing is that I've tested every version of Spyder software there has been over the last 20 years and I still won't let it choose settings for me...
... but if it works for you that's fine ;-)
@@KeithCooper Hi Keith! I didn't expect a reply (+ so quickly) this is a nice surprise, Thanks! My monitor itself is set with the usual recommended color (kelvin) setting and I dont change that. I only "accept" the values suggested by Spyder after it took a lighting reading, which usually suggests 5000k and a gamma of 2.2. (That's also what the "information" table shows once the calibration is done) so the software surely corrects the monitor color profile table accordingly. The only thing I adjust on the monitor is the brightness which I set as asked by the software during the calibration. When I used my 1st Syder(2 or 3, not sure), I did read their documentation and they were saying that the values suggested by the software (base on lighting readings) were use to compensate for the way our eyes perceive colors in low light. Knowing nothing about that at the time, I used these values since it made sense to me... And just kept doing so with the following Spyder versions (Always thinking this was right). I always do my edits in a dark room with no light to make sure no other light source will affect the way I see my monitor(s); no light level /color variation. I will go on your website where there surely is plenty more to read on that topic (monitor calibration etc) and experience with other settings than those suggested by Spyder, and see how it does for me. I discovered your channel and website last year when looking for info related to printing and I am very glad I did! The knowledge and experience you're sharing with us is very useful in improving our skills; it is highly appreciated! I also like the way you present all this to us, in a very friendly way, no bells and whistles. It always feels like we're learning from an old friend we can trust 🙂 Thanks again for your reply, have nice day!
Thanks - I personally find 5000K a bit warm for my tastes, but it is an accepted standard for print, so, as ever, if it works for you... @@ME2K23
I hope your other viewers won't be too upset with this question. I use a 4K/UHD television as my display. Is there any benefit to be had by using a device such as the Datacolour on a TV?
There should be, since whilst it is a TV, I take it you are using it as a computer monitor.
My PS gamma is set to 1.8 gamma for my iMac 27" 5k. Should I choose 1.8 to match the PS settings when calibrating using the spyderx? Just got the pro version yesterday. This video came at the perfect time. Thanks again Kieth, you have helped me so much in learning the intricacies of printing. BTW, my goal is to set up my display for the optimum settings for printing.
It hasn't been 1.8 on Macs for over 20 years... 2.2 has been standard for the Mac UI for years. The display Gamma has nothing whatsoever to do with any choice of working space in PS. I work in A98 most of the time which is a G2.2 space anyway. Prophoto is an editing space to be used with care/experience since it is easy to cause problems in editing if not careful. I would not suggest it as a default, unless I heard some pretty convincing reasons as to why, and believed the person telling me understood them ;-) ;-)
The default 120 cd/m2 at G2.2 and D65 (or 6500K) is a good general starting point. If editing in dimmer conditions, then 100cd/m2 may be better.
Setting at D50, whilst it can be of some use for print, is something for advanced use - I would not recommend it to the unwary. A possibility with a high end screen, but also something I'd be less likely to try on an iMac screen
@@KeithCooper thanks again Kieth, apologies for my ignorance.
Thanks - it's just one of those things that persist. With any software I use I always accept defaults until I've worked out if I've a reason to change. Glad to be of help!
What color checker do you recommend, Keith? I bought the Spyder X elite and im choosing between the passport 2, or the colorchecker photo.
I've reviews of both on the Northlight site (they predate my making videos)
I use the Passport myself for making DNG profiles - but I do also have larger SG card for more precise profiling. It fits my workflow for product work and when I need to allow for unusual lighting on location for my industrial work.
@@KeithCooper cheers keith, iill check the reviews and probably get the passport 2!
so did this calibrate the LUT of screen, or the video card translation?
The BenQ software does the monitor LUT and creates a profile for the screen that the Mac and applications can use.
If you use the Datacolor software then it assumes the screen is a dumb one and profiles/calibrates normally. The hardware calibration means that if it's already at the right settings, then the calibration aspect of the profile isn't doing much at the Mac end. There is never any real mention of LUTs and cards when using Macs
The BenQ screen is somewhat of an aside to this particular video, which is mainly about the spyder. In reality, if you had the BenQ screen you'd use the BenQ software for the BenQ monitor and the Spyder software for the macbook (remember each screen counts as an independent card from the Mac's POV)
Video card settings and LUT settings simply have no real significance on my Macs - there are no driver settings or any of that sort of stuff
hi keith,i have a dell e207wfp monitor,would the spyder x pro be able to calibrate that particular model of monitor do you know ?
IIRC that's quite an old and relatively low spec monitor?
Should benefit from calibration - but do check the system specs at datacolor. A basic calibrator should be fine.
@@KeithCooper thanks
I have my system set up similarly to what you show here, that is I use a laptop connected to an external Benq monitor ( SH240 ). My Benq is used primarily for printing purposes given its vastly more accurate than my crappy laptop screen. I only use Pallette Master to calibrate my Benq using an X rite i1 display Pro. I do however calibrate my laptop screen using the Xrite calibrator with X rites own software. This applies a profile to my laptop's screen. So all should be good in the world. One question however I'm unsure of. Windows applies my laptop screens profile as it should, but does this get carried over to the Benq? What I'm questioning is, am I essentially " double profiling"? Now I assume my windows X rite software profile intended for my laptop's screen is being output via the graphics card when I use my Benq, or does the Benq simply ignore the software profile in favour of its own hardware LUT? My Nvidia graphics card settings are set for " other applications control colour settings " so is that right or am I causing double profiling to take place in the Benq by doing this? I think my set up is correct in that my Benq uses and displays only the profile built into the LUT. In relation to that, could I also calibrate using X rites software a monitor profile for my Benq so I get both an Xrite software profile applied by the graphics card applied with the Pallette Master hardware derived LUT. That, I assume would be double profiling and would screw up my calibration, assuming that the Benq does take any notice of profiles output by the graphics card. Hope all this makes sense but I expect many who own hardware calibrated monitors like the Benq will often mix it with a software graphics card derived profile they made with Xrite or Datacolor software. I think it's important that those who own hardware calibrated monitors only use the proprietory software included with their monitor and not try to use Xrites or Datacolors software driven application. Wondered if you agree on this?
Here I can't help I'm afraid - I've not used a windows PC this century ;-)
So, whilst I know generally what you're talking about, we've not a PC in the house.
@@KeithCooper Let's assume Apple Mac's treat software generated monitor ICC profiles the same as Windows ( perhaps it doesn't, I don't know lol ). Is the Datacolor profile you created for this video having any visual effect on your Benq monitor? That is to say, the profile you created here will be output by the graphics card in the Mac laptop to your Benq, which itself is already hardware calibrated by the Pallette Master LUT. I'm wondering if hardware calibrated monitors simply ignore software derived calibrations but I can't see how that works, if at all because you can still create software profiles using either Datacolors or Xrites software for the connected Benq monitor. This is why I'm confused and curious as to whether both profiles are being run simultaneously in the Benq. The best analogy I can think of is that of double profiling in printing where you forget to tell the driver that you are getting Photoshop/Lightroom to control colour using a specific ICC profile. I can only assume that by setting the Nvidia graphics driver in my Windows operating system to allow them to control the output I'm letting Windows apply my laptop's monitor profile to the Benq? Or is it the other way round? lol. By letting the Nvidia graphics control colour am I sending an unsullied ( none profiled ) video signal to the Benq thus bypassing the Xrite/Datacolor software profile I created for my laptop screen? What a dilemma, I can't seem to find a definitive answer to this conundrum. You can see however why this would be a problem having both a hardware and software profile in the mix which potentially makes calibration a complete waste of time 😋
@@dunnymonster [On any of my Macs] The Datacolor profile will be having an effect if it is selected in the system prefs as the display profile for the BenQ monitor
It is the profile that the system will use, as will any colour managed applications.
In this case the Datacolor s/w sees the hardware calibrated monitor just as a display that needed very little (if any) calibration. Its generated profile will still include calibration info that will have some effect on the output to the display (potentially 'double calibration' not profiling)
Indeed when using the BenQ software on its own, the system is still 'seeing' the monitor as just another monitor - the BenQ software produces a profile which needs no calibration element at the computer end. It's still being done, but inside the monitor. The calibration element of the profile is a null one (my Mac developer knowledge of ColorSync is some years out of date so this is not an area I've looked at for some time)
Think of a hardware calibrated monitor as just a very good one that requires no calibration at the computer end, but still needs a profile for the OS and applications to be colour managed.
Basically, there is no good reason that I can see to use Datacolor or X-Rite software if you have just a BenQ monitor like this attached. With my MacBook I do need it to calibrate/profile the MacBook screen, but that is fully independent of the attached external display (every Mac display is fully independent.
There is an issue (on Macs) in that if I have two calibrations stored on the (BenQ) monitor, say D65 and D50 (Cal 1 and Cal 2) then switching them via the monitor does not 'tell' the computer that anything has changed, so I need to go to 'Displays' in the system prefs and select a different profile. The BenQ s/w will have created a profile for each - one reason to give them clear meaningful names.
Hope that's a bit clearer? I assume the broad principles should now apply to modern PCs as well. I seriously have not used one for over 20 years, so my detailed knowledge is extremely out of date
@@KeithCooper Many thanks Keith, much appreciated 👍
Very nice video. How much often is recommended to calibrate screen in printing business?
Depends on the type of print work - for proofing it should be part of your QC process
Personally I try and manage every 4-6 weeks, but I don't run a print business ;-)
@@KeithCooper Thank you very much for your reply. Soon I will start a small family business, making art prints and canvases.
@@KeithCooper I bought a canon pro 2100.
Excellent printer - virtually identical to the PRO-2000 I reviewed (long before I started doing videos)
www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-imageprograf-pro-2000-printer-review/
@@KeithCooper Thank you so much for this article.
Just got mine
I've lots more detailed info in the articles if it helps
www.northlight-images.co.uk/category/articles-and-reviews/datacolor/
I note you recommend not to edit in a 'dark room' . I can black out my room because it has solid shutters on the windows. Obviously, consistency is the key. A room which has the sun sweeping across it during the course of a day is a disaster. On the other hand, editing at night or from +/-5 pm in winter in northern latitudes, the room is going to be dark unless there's a lamp set up. What do you suggest as an ideal lighting set-up, taking total darkness as a start point, so to say.?
Sitting at the screen - lighting less than the screen, but not dark.
Avoid lighting in direct view when you work at the screen.
Too dark and you get glare issues from the screen
I used the Spyder and it made my screen look pinkish - also too dark to use. I guess I dont understand whats going on here.
The website is hopeless - the help and support links are broken and cant get a response from them by email. My monitor brand isn't listed (MSI 144 hz) so not sure what to do now.
Have you seen my actual [written] review? There's lots more info than goes into the video
www.northlight-images.co.uk/category/articles-and-reviews/datacolor/
@@KeithCooper I will have a read...many thanks 👍
Dear Cooper,
Thanks for your precious informationsand reviews that I follow for years.
I would like to ask for your advice on spyder print, actually. I see that on your blog that you have a review of it on BW. But I couldn't find any video of you about it. Therefore I am asking you here, if you don't mind.
Let say that I am an amateur photographer, have an LG display, Epson ET 8550 printer and Mac Mini M1. I own datacolor Spyder X and to my amateur eyes it is okay. What I want have is ICC profiles for different cheaper papers which will have acceptable color accuracy and be used as pirnt outs on my wall or album. For example Kodak papers are much cheaper than EPSON ones where I live. As I cannot find icc profiles of many papers that are sold here, than I need a color profiler hardware, I suppose. Most of these devices are too expensive to own for an amateur photographer. Up to my knowledge sypderprint is the cheapest one.
My question is if it is worth have one or just go with trial and error printing many examples?
Thanks
Cem
The best cheap one for paper profiles is the i1Studio/Colormunki/ccStudio.
My suggestion is to buy paper from a supplier who will make/supply profiles - Kodak branded papers are not somewhere I'd go - they often perform poorly in Canon and Epson printers [based on past testing] Maybe different now, but I'd not use them
[it's Keith BTW - no one has called me by my surname since I was at school... ;-) :-) ]
@@KeithCooper Thanks a lot. Much appreciated.
By the way, I know you are Keith, but I am used to call with surname, unless allowed by the counterpart. 😊
Not to worry! - addressing someone here [UK] by surname only [without Mr/Mrs etc] only happens in some schools, the military and prisons...
I owned a Spyder 4. Data Color Did NOT support an upgrade from a 32 bit to 64 bit Mac software to support the colorimeter. So it became a doorstop. I couldn't even sell it to help offset the upgrade. I held my nose, and Got the basic version on sale for $129. The new device does work much faster and it does a very good job, but I was VERY reluctant to support Data Color with another purchase.
Sorry - didn't know that.
The S4 calibrator does work with the shareware DisplayCal software. Well regarded, although I've not tested it in detail. displaycal.net
The ArgyllCMS system is closest to this, but has a steep learning curve, especially if you have a low tolerance of command line driven software. DisplayCal adds on a friendlier front end for monitor calibration/profiling.
Neither are applications I'd recommend to inexperienced users though.
Does it have option to mesure ambient room lite and regulate it automacly? Thanks.
I'm not sure if this is still supported
I'd hope not - it's a function which has no place in a colour managed workflow IMHO ;-)
with LED, i dont think you need to calibrate for months
Yes, my own preference is monthly only for a screen I'm doing my serious work on.