Seven Years with PV, what I have learned...
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- Опубліковано 21 тра 2024
- Hi, today I want to look back to the beginnings of my solar journey. 2017-2024, what have I learned?
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A mistake I made was initially using small distribution circuit breaker boxes to accomodate the perceived total required CB module devices in the beginning of my first proper build. Later on I would want to add SPDs, Timers, switches. Always use a larger than needed/required DIN rail distribution circuit breaker box enclosure. The extra space in larger distribution CB boxes makes it much easier for wiring and less hassle for adding more devices in the future. Changing out a distribution CB box for a larger one is a hassle and time consuming.
Yes, I agree. Take at least double the size, you think, you need. Never use a 12 unit DIN rail Box for 12 units. Take at least a 24 unit box if you (initially) have 12 units.
Reasons, why I ran out of space
- added additional solar charge controllers
- added over voltage protection
- changed RCD to B-Type (available only for three phases, therefore needs more space)
- replaced relays that turned out to be too small
- added monitoring electronics
The best advice I can share is always oversize main cables, as it will be less hassle to add more power at a later stage. From junction boxes all the way through to batteries. We normally all want to add more power eventually. Replacing components is easy. Replacing cables is the most time consuming and tedious task. It is not much more cost per meter/foot to upsize cables. Time is far more valuable than an extra few dollars per meter/foot to oversize primary power cables (especially if they have to be routed through conduit, walls, cavities, roof, trenches etc).
Correct, I had to do just that twice already :)) But you know, you never think your systems will keep growing. It's just that once you start to generate your own power, you quickly get addicted to it.
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore I have done it once.
Roland, your multi systems is the most impressive I have come across on youtube. Also the most safest. It is not the most aesthetic like the blue branded stuff, but it is all practical and functional with less expense. Well done for being a great role model for the majority of people.
Thanks Mate. What do you mean with blue branded, Victron? Yeah, thats sort of a money sink, right? Hehe
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore Yes, blue brand = victron.
Hi Roland , Thanks for the video. Safety - I wish to install a "DC only type non sine wave " RCD 35v DC to 400v DC next to the panels for a "super safe" output to limit the risk of ground leakage from cracked rain soaked wet panels potentially shorting to iron roof with dangerous voltages (Hail) . Im not interested in a primary panel isolator at ground level only.
My System : 48v panels at 700w in series connected to Lightning Protectors / RCD / MCB 40A 10KVA DC Type all inside the combiner box. The power cable from the panels to the inverter is DC type RCD monitored . Solar Frame is grounded and Negative on the battery is grounded to a 2 meter earth peg via 25mm earth cable (6kw 230v Inverter with RCBO 63 Amp AC output MEN system MPPT 90v DC to 500v DC ).
No chance of accidental High voltage shock in the event of mechanical damage to external or underground DC cable installation. Whats your professional opinion please ?
Thanks Roland
Andrew Nz
Hi Andrew. Yes, it is true that with your proposed protective devices on the DC side right at the point of generation, any leakage should disconnect the solar array and safety ground will keep the potentials of any metallic surfaces at zero. As the location of the leakage will be at zero, the disconnected poles at the DC RCD should both show other voltages then zero in case of a broken panel.
Do you have the model number of the DC RCD which you want to use? I would be curios...
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore Hi there Roland I have the Data. - Naidian NDL J48 -3C EN60947-5-1:2017 compliant. 20v to 150v DC - Requires wired remote toroidal sensing coil.
Andrew Nz
@@aandscrawfoski thanks
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore This is the only unit available economically but the new Inverters MPPT start up range in at 90v DC to 500v DC .
My system is 6 panels with ever 2 panels in parallel or 48v at 1400w.
Each of the 3 pairs in parallel are then connected in series or 48v + 48v + 48v =150 v DC total at 4200w.
The new inverter system may not like that.
Ideally I may need to make a Earth leakage sensing device for each panel which means I can then place all 6 panels in series with a higher voltage .(gerber file and Auto Grade component's tested at a local lab for certification)
Designing the 30 milliamp / 30 milli second electronic trip device is the trick .
I believe the Inverters have something similar on board their Inverters called a (Ground Fault Error Alarm).
You can see why my wife gets mad with me Roland, I think about weird things.
Andrew Nz
Hi Roland what do you think about the device?
Andrew Nz
My mistake: thinking a 3000 Watt inverter could supply power for a 230V circuit that is currently secured by a 12A fuse. 12A by 230V gives 2760W, but that is not the maximum that can pass a common 12A fuse. For a limited time it tolerates much more. Therefore when using grid power we never had a problem when using our 2500W water cooker together with our 1500W coffee machine. The 12A fuse tolerates the 4000W during the time needed to get the water hot. But my 3000W Inverter does not.
Yes. That's in general a problem when circuits are powered by grid or inverter alternately. The grid has no problem in providing dozens or even hundreds of amps in the case of short circuits. Our protective Line Breakers are designed to take an initial surge before they even blink.
But inverters do have their set limit and will not let currents go over the rated ones, so breakers are degraded to switches, else they would have to be downsized. But that's not really a problem as the inverter itself will take over the part of short circuit protection and shut down before something blows up.
Of course, if your whole service panel is connected to the inverter only in that moment, your house will be dark :)
The only protective device which is working same no matter what the power source is, is an RCD/GFCI as it trips with any minimal leakage current. But those are only helping for leakage...
I learned that people are often wrong especially when they said solar would never power the grid lol. Utility companies will get rich charging for power they get for free, even the oil companies installed solar to power their production of fossil fuel.
Great Video as always. I have online 5kw set fitted in Korat. I also put new energy efficient devices (water pump, AC and fridge). Recently bought new LFP 8*280ah batts from China. They are good and need to fit. Intend to run bedroom AC overnight with these
Yes, great. Setting off the AC on batteries will get your power bill to a very low remaining amount. Get the good work going ;)
To store 1kWh costs about 12% of the price you pay for 1kWh from the grid, at least in my setup (in Thailand). The system will payed it self off after 4 Years. So i am not sure if grid tied systems are still the most cost effektive way to go. In future with natron prussian blue batteries (instead Lifepo4 /6000 cycles) which endure 50'000 cycles it will become even better.
Battery setups have experienced the biggest drop in price within the last 7 years. 7 years ago 5 kW/10kWh had cost me 250000baht. Last year 6kW/10kWh for 120000baht. You can always go cheaper with simpler equipment. If the future brings even cheaper batter tech, then this can only be good. Btw, in 7 years, my off-grid system made 1600 full cycles. Who the heck needs 50000 in a solar application :))
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore Yes one human life wont be enough to use this 50'000 cycles. The prussian blue sodium Ion batteries use cheaper materials than lithium batteries. The reason why they hold up so long is cause the sodium ions fit into the prussian blue structure gaps easely, no need to squeeze in as its the case with lithium ions in graphite structure. So there no physical expansion occours on the poles, no tensions, no cracks. In stationary applications these NIBs with a energy density arroud 140Wh/Kg (lithium 200-300Wh/Kg) will become the new standard.
@@topeye4202 aye. I saw a documentation recently. Let's hope that those products will be on the market soon and that there will be healthy competition so that the prices really come down quickly. I need to replace my crappy degraded cells at some point. hehe
What is the capacity of your battery and are you using it for self consumption or for back up in the case of a grid down situation?
At the moment I stand at 35kWh capacity, while 8kWh are reserved for backup or are otherwise not accessible. The remaining 27kWh are cycled daily if there was enough sun.
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore Waoh. With that amount, do you ever need to pull from the grid or does the amount suffice for your daily energy use? Do you moderate your energy usage or live as if you were on the grid?
@@1982757 well, our place is a holiday resort with 7 guest rooms, coffee shop, laundry and owners apartment. So we unfortunately cannot run the property without the grid. But usually during the day we do not draw power from the grid, and we can charge up the batteries. The capacity is not sufficient to last over the night when guestrooms are booked.
But still, we do use more then 80% of our own solar energy and are about 60% powered by solar.
It's not the end of our journey yet ;)
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore Oh. Great. I wish you more success with your future expansion.