6.8 Western: A Review After One Year (Plus some juicy rumors)
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- Опубліковано 15 лют 2022
- The 6.8 Western is becoming a popular centerfire rifle cartridge. It is a mild-recoiling cartridge with enough punch to take down elk-sized game.
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Translation of Hornady's response "It's crapping all over our fancy PRC rounds and we don't like it"
The entire shooting community response: "There's a good reason why NOBODY makes a bullet selection for reloading .270". They've had many decades to develop it and they just haven't. There is no market for it. IF you can find stuff, it's all going to be hunting stuff. 270's are for people buying a box of winchester and sitting in a deer stand once a year. Anyone shooting year round will be shooting a much more useful cartridge with a much bigger selection of bullets-for-caliber. In short...6.8SPC is the solution to a problem that nobody has...the answer to a question literally NOBODY is asking.
Im just gonna say what everyones thinking here- Hornady was filling out a line of cartridges in the Creedmoor/PRC template. 6.5 Creed, 6.5 PRC, 6 Creed, 300 PRC. Winchester saw this and made the 6.8 Western, AKA the 270 PRC. THAT is why Hornady will not produce ammo or dies for 6.8. They will shortly come out with 28/7mm PRC and tout it as better than the 6.8 when in reality the 6.8 is a fine cartridge in this new ideal efficiency template, theyre just salty its not called 270 PRC.
Spot on my friend!
You're probably spot on. They also dared to make a hunting cartridge in the age of precision-shooting-mania that also perfectly mimics the PRC designs (just true short action COAL being the difference)
I'm just going to be getting LEE Lyman or RCBS dies anyway. I'm about sick of Hornady. BTW, Winchester chambers the Model 70 in 6.5 Creed and PRC. Maybe they should stop and tell Hornady to go jump in the lake, two being able to play that game.
Equally, when he was talking about it I thought to myself "essentially nosler was the honest one in that conversation"
Hornady made my 270WinAI dies. Cost a few hundred as custom dies but man are the great. And i get close to 270 weatherby velocity
I REALLY hope that Federal develops a 165+ grain version of the Terminal Ascent for the 6.8 Western. I’d buy a stockpile of that in a heartbeat.
@@ronlowney4700 sadly I don’t right now, but I’ve been increasingly thinking about getting into it. I’m sure that 155 grain would be great in a .270 WSM or something similar, but since the 6.8 Western is optimized for longer, higher BC bullets, there’s definitely something that’s left on the table with those 155 grainers… now whether or not that increased BC would actually would matter or not on an animal is certainly debatable, haha
6.8 is for real. Did 1/2” moa today 162 grain copper impact factory ammo. Browning hells canyon long range Mcmillan with hawg break. Love it ,many tight groups. No trouble feeding at all.
Would’ve liked to see a comparison of “felt recoil” along with your other analyses. Keep up the great work!
I shot one at the range. Browning rifle with a muzzle brake. Kicked less than a 243. A kid could comfortably shoot it.
I am a huge 270 fan and the 6.8 western is an improvement. I hope it stays around.
270s are shit.. to each tier own, I've seen more deer lost with that cartridge than any other,,
@@garygonzales8787 maybe that's more about you than the calibre
@@garygonzales8787
I’m calling bullshit!!! I was always a 30-06 fan and I moved to Idaho and started hunting with my cousins. They ALL shot the .270 Win and they used it for everything. I’ve seen them take elk after elk, year after year. In the beginning, I use to flick them crap for using a 140 grain bullet on elk. I thought that was absurd, till they proved me wrong time and time again.
Maybe the problem is you. Maybe it’s your rifle, or your scope, or the ammo you’ve selected. There is too many variables to list, but to claim the 270 is crap doesn’t fit what I’ve seen personally for the last 20 years. I’ve witnessed well over 150 big game animals taken during that span. I’m not trying to be an ass, but your claim is garbage.
@@garygonzales8787 bad shot placement is what that is and perhaps a poor choice in bullet .
shot placement counts for sure..I've seen tons of deer killed them and tons lost!! like i said to each their own..Ill stick to my 300 weatherby. haven't lost a deer in 25 years with it and never will unless the scope screw up..opinoions vary and mine F%$#* a 270.. @@blairajdean
Years ago when I first started learning about ballistics, I remember thinking the 270 WSM was phenomenal. It's something else. You add a heavier bullet and faster twist, it's in another league.
I have a 270 WSM and it shoots like a laser. If I ever need to barrel it, I'll put a faster twist rate on it.
The short mags are wonderful, but not enough to make people throw away there old 270 & 300. So bullets are not as common and not carried in the small stores. A lot of hunters don't want to drive half way across the state, or to three different stores, to find bullets. The high BC bullets are great but they require a different twist.
The 270 wsm shoots faltter than the 6.8 western up and beyond 600 yards, while carrying just about the same energy and being similarly affected by wind drift.
Yeah I have Handloaded the Federal Terminal Ascents, and getting a muzzle Velocity of 3300 fps. It had a decent BC, .493, for a 136 grain bullet. (I weighed them and they are really 135.)
Picked up a 270 WSM the year it released. Had a lot of success with it in the field.
I find myself looking around for a new rifle in this caliber today. Few and far between.
Seems the 6.8 Western replacement won't get the same support the 270 WSM had. I haven't had much luck finding a left hand rifle in the new 6.8W even if ammo was more available lol. The times we live in
We had the 6.8 SPC added about 10 years ago. The 27 Nosler is fairly new. There are also three new new 6.8x51 rounds of different design that were created to compete for the new military standard weapon to replace 308 and belt fed 556 systems (Sig 277 Fury, Textron 6.8, and 6.8 TVCM). These 6.8x51 cartridges are each new designs that don't follow old standard brass design. They have the capability of pushing the .277 faster from shorter barrels in fairly small cartridge size compared to what you would even see from magnum brass. Lots of 6.8 going on. The 6.8 Western likely got to the punch first as a civilian standard brass cartridge that does what a lot of people currently want with the long range lighter recoil trend (27 Nosler takes the higher recoil flatter trajectory crown). They will succeed where others didn't see the writing on the wall. The new military 6.8 chosen will likely be higher cost for ammo a while and more of a barrel burner - really competing with the 27 Nosler on the civilian side. The 6.8 Western chose well as a niche filling the use case similar to 6.5 Creedmoore (but offering better ballistics and energy) using soon to be ubiquitous 6.8 bullets while not competing with the new military round.
Nice work sir
Currently reloading 6.8 Western with 165gr Accubond LR with BC of 0.620! Videos to come!
What powder works for you?
Fantastic video on the 6.8 Western, your view point is right on target. I have a 6.8 Western have been shooting it almost weekly up to 1000 yards. Remarkable group sizes. I hand load so I have many options for bullets. It loves any bullets 140 gr or more. I also have a 270 WSM with a 7 1/2 twist barrel. Ballistics about the same, except the 6.8 Western is a little more efficient needing a little less powder to reach the same velocity. It definitely out preforms the 270 WSM and 270 Winchester. There is no question in my mind, the 6.8 Western is here to Stay. Again a great video.
Are you using the steal head/brass body cases to reload or are you using the all brass cases? I think they are making all brass cases, or am I wrong about that?
@@madman432000 I purchased new Winchester brass, found a number bags at a local gun store.
JW? Does that stand for Joe Winchester?
I love it !
How does it "definitely outperform the 270wsm" when you say the ballistics are about the same?
I done a review on the 6.8 in a browning long range max. Wich resulted in a full blown custom. I shoot 175 at 3000 and some change with my hand loads and accuracy has been stellar. Very balanced cartridge
Completely agree with your two choices. I would probably go with the 7 SAUM just because I love reloading and the wide variety of 7mm projectiles, but from a ballistics point of view, the 6.8 Western has a lot to offer. I hope it catches on.
because it's a short action, it can make for some handy rifles for closer range woods hunting. And if you reload, as I do, you can optimize for a shorter barrel.
The performance of my 6.8 western this past season has been impressive! I haven't noticed any feeding issues with the nickel plated offerings from Winchester/Browning, however that might be due to a custom McGowen barrel.
I nabbed a 3 die set from Lee this summer and have also been eyeing the 170gr Berger EOL. Good choice! The only load data I've found on it so far is from Hodgdon. Although I guess the more adventurous wildcatters/reloaders could take 270 WSM data and dial back by a safe margin of error off the max loadings.
Yea the 270 WSM loads are the same except the 6.8 Western holds 2 grains more lol so same load add 5-6 granuals
@@miketyson89336.8 has less case capacity as it's a slightly shorter 270wsm case. Quit giving dangerous advice
It certainly has alot going for it. It appears to be a good viable option.
Time will tell. I too am a big 7mm proponent... especially the good old 7mm RemMag. With all of its zits & wrinkles it is still a fantastic offering.
Just revisiting this vid (always great!). Now that Berger has their 156 gr, the down range energy of the 6.5 PRC is VERY close to a 6.8. I don't think you can go wrong w/ 6.5 PRC for hunting big game now that larger bullets are available.
I hope you continue to push support for this cartridge. It looks very promising. The numbers are there for it to have a place long term. Hopefully it sticks around
Obviously Hornady and Nosler, don’t like the 6.8 western. It’s competition. Hornady invented the PRCs, and at first other companies didn’t make those cartridges until it got more established. The reason 6.8 was invented, was to compete with these cartridges that utilize a heavy for caliber bullet.
I agree, nosler too with their 27
Yea well the Winchester short magnums had been out longer, I think is all thatvis going to do is make people look more towards the 6.8 Western. Like the mom or dad that says no you can't do that!!! Lol the 6.8 Western is really starting to take off
Just shot my new Browning XBOLT hells canyon long range Mcmillan left hand 6.8 Western with Hawg suppressor. 162 copper impact factory loads. Shot one on paper 100 yrds. Adjust scope shot 234 just missed 1/2 moa!!! Not even used to gun yet. No kick at all like .223 right from box and it will be under 1/2” moa easy!!!!! LOVE IT!! Thomas Novack
Shot Browning 175 Sierra Game kings factory ammo. Did couple 1 inch groups then did 5/16” 3 shot 100 yrds. Wow. Good day when 1 inch is a bad group! Love it. 6.8 Western
Big advantage of 6.8 Western over 6.5 PRC is also barrel life. Looks like it is +50% to double the barrel life.
People have 6.5 PRCs that are burning out at really low shot numbers in some cases. Have seen as low as 700 rounds reported, although around 1200 seems normal.
I know guys with 1800 on the PRC.
@@graynotescartridgebox yeah I’m at 900 and can’t see hardly any change in the bore condition.
People put way too much stock into barrel life. Unless your a competitive shooter or pdog hunter that regularly will go out and put 100 rounds downrange barrel life shouldnt be a big concern. Especially with more powerful stuff like 6.5 prc and up you can literally shoot your big game animals and put a box of ammo through it EVERY year and it will last your whole life. Even if you manage to shoot out a barrel thats a good thing because your out there shooting a lot and can just order a new one for less than a new rifle.
@@Nick-sx6jm barrels are consumables like tires on a car. I have two or three wore out barrels now that I’ll be replacing this year. It just isn’t a big deal.
@@graynotescartridgebox I also buy tires that have longer life compared to tires that perform the same but have shorter life.
My next chambering will be 6.8 western tikka build, thinking OMR, hopefully federal will jump on it...
The day the 6.8 Western dropped I said this is going to be the new .270, the ballistics of this are unreal for the recoil of the rifle. I have believed since day 1 this is going to be the next great one.
Ya know what's the "new" .270? The .270. The ballistic difference is so miniscule. All while requiring rounds that aren't on the shelf often and cost 3 times what a .270 round costs. .270 win is going nowhere.
@@ranchodeluxe1 270 is boring. Some like to switch it up while others still drive a 1997 dodge caravan.
@@69yenko65 Nothing boring about dropping a 150 class whitetail
@@69yenko65 And comparing the .270 to a Ferrari would be more accurate.than to a Dodge Caravan. Magnum performance, by definition.
@@ranchodeluxe1 true, you're right
great video and outstanding option for a caliber esp if you're new to hunting and you're looking for a "do-it-all" rifle here stateside. It's handled hogs and deer so far one shot and instant terminal performance each time.
I have had great success with my regular 270 Winchester shooting the 170 Berger with my factory 1/10 twist barrel. I am easily getting 2930 fps with reloader 26. It is always fun to play with new cartridges, but don’t forget about playing with new powders in older cartridges.
We have been lied to about the ol .270 all our lives! I know an old guy that shoots 180 grains out of his. She can handle what the 30-06 can handle just about
Berger’s 6.5mm 156 grain elite hunter bullets have caught my interest in 6.5 PRC.
Great video Jim! Love your knowledge on all things guns and ammo. Means a lot coming from a guy with the rounds down range and the field experience! Keep it up!
I had the same issue with my Winchester rifle loading 270 wsm from Winchester. When they seated the bullet in the case they used too much downward force causing the shoulder to bulge slightly. I complained to Winchester and they paid for return of the box of ammunition and paid for a new box, their testing confirmed the problem. Reloading brass from other manufacturers can cause the same problem if you are not careful.
I am a fan of the 6.8 western and I am building my own custom based on the cartridge. I have 20 boxes of the Winchester 175gr LR ammo and I am ready to go once my remaining parts get shipped. The part that I don't like about the new cartridges is that manufacturers are forcing us into the A vs. B choice much like cell phones (apple vs. android), computer operating systems (mac vs. windows), and trucks (ford vs. gm vs. ram). Each of the examples have proprietary inclusions that will force a choice to be all in with that brand for every item in need because each brand produces items that mesh well together. The rifle and ammo manufacturers are attempting the same thing and eventually as an example you'll only be able to buy a rifle from a certain few or one manufacturer to be able to utilize a certain caliber which isn't necessarily a bad thing but the consumer is the one that loses here simply because of cost. For example if you are a diehard Rem 700 or Win 70 fan, you cannot get the 6.8 western chambered in that rifle as of now but I assume that pattern will remain moving forward depending on the relationships between rifle and ammo manufacturers. It really has nothing to do with giving the consumer options anymore. The focus is more on profit, profit, profit, and more profit.
If you like 6.8 western just wait for 6.9 eastern !!! It gunna be so dope
I prefer a 7.0 south
@shronut.840 now your just being silly
@@HondaRiderX17 Yknow the 6.7 northern needs a reboot
@@shronut.840 6.7 creed more!?
I hope the 6.8 Western thrives since it strikes me as a better cartridge for certain situations than the .308 WIN (which is no slouch) and it has some advantages over the .30-06 Springfield in terms of its short action and terrific B.C., velocity, drop, and energy numbers at long ranges.
It should catch on it has alot going for it. Matches 7mm rem mag out of a lighter shorter rifle. Perfect for backcountry hunters where length and weight matter. Only down side is ammo availability I can find all I want and for cheaper than other cartridges right now. 40 dollars a box for half inch groups out of a x bolt ain't bad these days.
I’m a handloader and I shoot a lot of rounds. The 6.8 Western looks like a great round to me, but frankly Winchester and Browning brass isn’t that great. If brass can’t be had from Lapua or Alpha, I won’t consider it. Additionally, there’s a limited number of bullets available. I’m pretty happy with 6.5 PRC thus far. I’ve killed two big game animals with it thus far and it worked well.
If the 6.8 Western picks up support, I’d consider it.
I haven’t got to hear about your news yet, but I’m curious if it’s a 7mm-6.5 PRC. I hear Alex Wheeler has been experimenting with it and getting 180s over 3,000 with better life over the 6.5 parent. Plus necking 6.5 to 7mm isn’t hard. I’ve been quite tempted to build one myself.
How about a 7mmx300 PRC?
@@ironDsteele I’ve considered making both. A .300 based for hunting and a 6.5 based for competition.
@@graynotescartridgebox That's very cool. I would really like one dangerous game cartridge in my collection- no, I don't intent to hunt DG. I was looking at doing 470NE in a Ruger No.1 perhaps. I have all my bases covered but I want something fun and different.
Man, a 7mm-6.5 PRC sounds awesome! I have a 6.5 PRC but I'd be happy to replace my barrel with a 7mm after this one burns out.
For as popular as the 6.5 PRC is, I'm surprised that there's still a major shortage of factory loads for it. I've been sitting on a new rifle for 4 months that I can't find ammo for other than online price gougers.
That's cool that you spoke with many amo manufacturers about producing the 6.8 western. I have one and it would help to have a variety and see which one my rifle likes the best. Tky.
All these new cartridges seem like great options. But I'm sticking with my beloved .338 Win Mag. It's all I need. For smaller game, I've .223 Rem.
Bet you enjoy that price tag these days
I'm wanting a 7PRC that pushed 180gr to right at 3000fps. Long action, blow forward the shoulder 0.150 or so, shoot for 180s at an 8 twist as the standard throat setup, ideally 2950-3000fps.
28 Nosler.
You are welcome.
@@PaulVerhoeven2 well played
@@PaulVerhoeven2 Yes, the big 28 is pretty close. That sweet 35 degree shoulder. But the Saami chamber sucks, the twist is too slow and throat too short. The NOsler fail is similar to Remington-- they optimized for hunting to the detriment of target shooting. And we've learned from the rise of the 6.5 that optimizing for target shooting end up making a great hunting round. (high SD is where it's at for both).
@@G5Hohn "But the Saami chamber sucks,"
In what regard?
" the twist is too slow"
9" is pretty good for 28 cal, compare with 280 Rem, 7RemMag or 7-08. Given its higher muzzle velocities, it can stabilize longer bullets too.
"and throat too short."
What do you mean, the throat of the case? 7mm is not enough?
@@PaulVerhoeven2 velocity has a tiny effect on stability. The 28 can’t stabilize anything over 175 unless the bullet has awful bc. Forget the new generation of 180+ bullets. A modern 7mm should be 8.5 or 8tw and have at least enough freebore to seat at least a 175 with the boat tail above the neck/shoulder corner.
Maybe I’m not giving the big 28 enough credit, but the use of the same 9 twist you see in 7rm and many other 7s is a red flag it’s not a modern design.
I really want one in a Model 70 Classic. I've admittedly been one to occasionally denigrate new cartridges but I see value in this new .277.
So do they. About $3 a round.
@@ranchodeluxe1 I don't contaminate my guns with factory ammunition.
Yup. I went to three gun shops today, for various reasons. I made a point of noting no 6.8 brass, no powder in it's burn range, no magnum primers and no bullets. However, between those three stores I could have bought 50,Hornady brass, large rifle primers, 130 bullets in several varieties and 150 Nosler partitions and two pounds of W 860. You see, IF I had nothing, I could have bought the components to load any .270 round I chose. So, unless you saw all this coming years ago, as I did,( I'm loading 150 gr Nosler Partition rounds for about 50 cents) you are putting as much time, effort and money in chasing that stuff down, as you would if you could find, and buy factory ammo. If that's you, bravo. But it ain't anywhere near where most guys are at. I spend a buttload of time in gun shops, so I'm very confident of that. Manufacturers have to try to build fresh product. It's always been an issue, especially when rifles like the Model 70 are built to last indefinitely. But, the 6.8 does nothing the .270 Win won't do. It's extra velocity doesn't matter until we'll past point blank range and it's bullet drop and wind drift advantages are negligible. Couple that with my Model 70 being worth 3 plastic rifles, and it's not enough to induce one who's been pounding trophy public land bucks for decades with the .270 to flip with the cabbage. Besides, I can mellow out a 150 grain charge to 2700 fps and drop a deer at 30-30 range, with very little damage. No. .270 Win is going nowhere.
@@ranchodeluxe1 I'd never trade in my Model 70, 270. It's my, "If you could only have one," rifle. But I don't have any qualms about having more than one rifle in the same bore diameter either, and that Western has more appeal to me than any new cartridge has in a long time. I do have an M77 compact in 6.8 SPC for my kids to shoot deer with and it's a great little .277. For it's modest velocity it puts mule deer on the ground surprisingly well : )
It all depends on the situation , it’s like having the right tool for the right job .
Different range , different games / target.
Great review...as usual. Thanks NEED MORE INFO ON 6mm ARC!
One trick to compare different bullet calibers and keep fairness between them is to make sure all the bullet's sectional density are the same or pretty close.
so many variables...
My first thought about the bolt being hard to close on some of the rounds is the shoulder is not pushed back as far as it should be. That would be a quality control issue. I've had really good luck reloading with Winchester brass, I get more reloads out of it than other brands. I haven't had to buy new brass for a few years, so maybe things have changed. The 6.8 Western looks like a good hunting round. I can't justify adding a new caliber to the stable with the lack of components right now.
I was shooting Federal 300 WSM ammo last week and 2 cartridges would not allow me to close my bolt. I took them home, pulled the bullets, full length resized them and reloaded the bullet. I was then able to close my bolt. Do not buy a set of Lee pacesetter does for 300WSM, it neck sizes only and I couldn't close the bolt on reloads. I had to get a RCBS full length sizing die.
I just bought one and have only fired 6 rds through it and I can say that was the best gun I have bought since I bought my 243. It's dead accurate and has a punch. I would recommend it
Good look into the 6.8 I really like the comparisons between the calibers.
I already own a 270WSM and a 7mm Rem and I just cant justify owning the 6.8 western. If I didn't own the WSM, I would've jumped on the 6.8 bandwagon immediately.
Im thinking,in 10 years the 270wsm will still be around. I would hang on to it. I've got a 7mm br that i love, brass is hard to find. Reloading is all that is keeping it alive.
Good video. Not sure what this rumored 7 PRC would do that the 28 Nosler (and a number of other cartridges) wouldn’t at the cost of a bit more recoil though. I still think they should make it a short action as the market for a short action 7 with more industry support than the 7 Saum in factory rifles and Ammo is wide open. I would probably buy one.
Mind you, I like the 27 Nosler even more but... it is a bit heavy on barrels! Reminds me of the old .264 Winchesters.
Great review
Remember that Browning has changed/increased the twist rate on new rifles in 7mm REM Mag.
I’d love to see a comparison now that 7 PRC is here. As somebody that doesn’t reload, the lack of options with ammunition turns me off from the 6.8, but having a short action/shorter barrel on a rifle that has very comparable performance is a huge plus.
Maybe I missed it, but you didn’t talk about recoil differences between the cartridges
Thanks for another excellent video.
Overall weight of my mountain rifles is very important to me. Thats the primary reason I don't currently own a 7mm Remington Magnum. I prefer short action non magnum but once in a wile especially elk hunting the added stopping power of a magnum is nice to have.
6.8 Western gives me similar stopping power and in some cases better then a 7mm Remington Magnum on a much lighter build.
9 months later and 6.8 western ammo is on the shelves and guns get bought as soon as they hit the racks. I’m intrigued by the round… I have a 300 win mag and 6.5 prc. I’m aiming towards a 7mm prc or 6.8 western I’ll have to wait and see the traction each gains I might have to buy both and stick with the one I like the most.
You will find those cases that are tough to close the bolt with have an excessively thick case rim and it's fighting your extractor; not a headspacing issue. I've found this with Win brass on many calibers including my 270 WSM. In some cases you nearly have to jump on the bolt handle to close it- I pitch those cases.
I was planning on buying a .270 WSM and after doing a ton of keyboard research I can't see a reason to NOT get the 6.8 Western. It's the .270 modernized. I hope ammo manufacturers eventually get behind it, but it makes sense that they wouldn't want to support competition.
I love the 270 WSM, but if I didn't already own one I would definitely get the 6.8.
It's actually easier finding ammo for the 6.8 than 270WSM. Unfortunately 270WSM will, for all intensive purposes, be a dead cartridge.
@@nuckyduk15 I'm noticing this myself, my wife has a .270wsm and it's always a challenge to find ammo for it.
@@spivzit8754 I have considered selling my WSM and buying the 6.8 since I think it'll have more support going forward.
Dang. I was really hoping for an 8mm Western ;)
I was also 100% on board with the 7 PRC being based off the 6.5 PRC case, not the 300 PRC. That’s unfortunate news, I’m my mind.
The 6.5 is so close to the 7 saum dimensionally it could work but then it’s just a renamed 7 saum. to compete with the 28nos,7rem, and 7lrm it has to run the 300 prc as a parent case to have any chance at running these heavy high bc bullets. plus you get away from the feeding issues with a sort fat case and a heavy long bullet hanging out like the 6.5 prc does.
Take 300 wsm brass and neck it down to 7mm problem solved
I would point out for those who dont know. But 27cal or .277 is not a 6.8mm diameter bullet. Its actually 7.04mm. 6.8mm comes from the bore diameter so if you want a 7mm 27cal fits the bill. Dont believe me, look up SAAMI specs for the round, its all there. 28cal or what we call 7mm/.284 is a 7.2mm bullet diameter. Second for guys who say ive got a 270win or 270wsm so I dont need this. Well if you want to shoot the heavy, high bc bullets, those two cartridges do not have the twist rates to stabilize them or throat space to fit them without having to seat them deep in the case. A costum barrel fixes those issues but having the 6.8 western avoids needing a custom done. I would also say that short actions are not always the best setup nor should longe actions be an instant deal breaker. The 7 SAUM being an example, it is a SA round, but if your pushing the 180gr or 190gr class bullets for long range target shooting, like many do who use it. It would be better in a LA given that you have to seat the bullets so far out they wont fit in a SA magazine. In that regard a 7PRC might make some sense in a LA. Just my opinion.
I laughed at the 6.8 Western but after doing my due diligence, seeing it was made off of the .270 WSM which I was looking at getting for a deer gun up to 500 yards perfect, but.....its made like the Hornady PRC rounds with the neck and having the leads not crammed in the brass as much, to have more powder in the brass and going heavier and being a tiny tad bigger .277 over the .270 and its a small bit but it does give it more of a wallop and not sacrificing that zip!!! I cannot wait until I get my Christensen MPR or Ridgeline in 6.8 Western!!! But a Gun Werkz can on it and it really makes it more accurate losing no speed and quiets it down a LOT!!! Excited for my 6.8 Western build!!!!!
I’ve been shooting Winchester ammo since the 80s, Taking a lot of animals, It’s always worked for me, I use other brands to, Hornady wouldn’t make 300 wsm for a few years because of the 300 ruger, They said the 300 wsm didn’t eject good, Pushing the 300 ruger, The worst ammo that didn’t work for me was and is the REMINGTON CORE-LOKT misfires, Cracked shell cases in the new boxes, I had misfires in the early 90s, I wouldn’t use for hunting, Had a buddy call me in November this past deer season needing some 3006-308 ammo, He had a half box of 3006 with cracked shell casings, He bought two years ago, He called Remington there sending him a box. Great Videos keep them coming...
I was really excited to hear about the 7 PRC until you said that it sounds like it is going to be a long action. One of these ammo companies needs to come up with a 7mm SAUM analogue that is optimized for heavy for caliber bullets and for which factory rifles are manufactured with fast twist barrels to accommodate those heavy for caliber bullets.
I see this a lot, people hate long actions. Why? Is it because the longer bolt throw, slightly longer rifle, or the tiny addition to the weight?
6.8 and 7 are 0.2mm difference, it is simply not significant. All the bullet weights you could have used in 7mm-08 or 7mmRemMag are now available in 6.8 Western, but with slightly higher SDs and BCs. It is capable of taking absolutely any game short of African Big 4, what else do you need?
@@stump3514 I would be primarily interested in a cartridge of this type because of the efficiency of the short action case; the advantages being same or similar velocities with less powder, less recoil and longer barrel life. Short action cartridges can usually get away with a slightly shorter barrel length which, added to the shorter receiver, amount to some weight savings.
I personally think that high BC, heavy for caliber 7mm bullets are the sweet spot when it comes to hunting projectiles. In order for 30 caliber bullets to have the same or higher ballistics coefficients as heavy for caliber 7mm bullets, they generally have to be at grain weights (200+ grains) that generate a substantial amount of recoil when launched at velocities that produce a relatively flat shooting trajectory like the 7mm SAUM provides.
The problem with the 7mm as a caliber is that while there are a lot of excellent choices of heavy for caliber bullets, there are very few factory rifles that come with barrel twist rates fast enough to really stabilize those long bullets. This in turn also causes most ammunition companies to shy away from loading these high BC, heavy for caliber bullets. Both of these are problems that plague all of the popular 7mm cartridges.
There seems to be a need for a new 7mm cartridge optimized for long, heavy for caliber, high BC bullets and offered in a wide variety of factory rifles that have fast enough twist rates to stabilize these bullets. I believe that such a round might as well be a short action; for the advantages mentioned above.
@@PaulVerhoeven2 You are right. There isn’t much difference in diameter between a .277 caliber or .284 caliber bullet. The problem with the 6.8 isn’t the bullet diameter but the bullet selection. There just aren’t very many options in .277 caliber bullets that weigh more than 150 grains and there are even less options available when looking at controlled expansion (bonded, partitioned and monolithic) bullets. On the other hand there are quite a few bullet offerings in 7mm at the 175-185 grain range. Based on what he said in the video, it doesn’t look like we are going to see much improvement in this disparity in heavy for caliber bullet offerings any time soon.
@@joshuabrown7906 "There just aren’t very many options in .277 caliber bullets that weigh more than 150 grains"
Because before 6.8 there were no cartridges able to stabilize them (well, there were short 160gr, not very aerodynamic).
When tight twist revolution for 6.5mm started, there were no long aerodynamic bullets for that caliber either, at least in the US. And look where we are now.
If (and that is a big if) 6.8 Western takes off there will be bigger selection of long bullets too. Although I like 162 copper and 175, and 165 Nosler ABLR. Plus 150gr ABLR on the lighter side (good for all other 270s) is pretty good too.
Regarding 7mm, the selection of aerodynamically efficient bullets is mainly in the 140-175gr range, neither 7mm-08 (with 120-150 loaded by factories) nor 7mmRemMag with their standard 9.5" twist cannot stabilize longer than that. All the Extreme Outer Limits bullets are for custom twists.
See for yourself:
ammoseek.com/ammo/7mm-remington-magnum
Thanks for an honest analysis.
Man Im hoping that my channel takes off like that haha
I love watching your stuff, and Im glad that you decided to give your opinions here
Being a 7 RM owner there are two reason's I might switch; shorter barrel, cheaper ammo. Thinking through what I'd replace it with; I've settled on a 300 WSM and then pick up a 270 or 7mm-08. I have to be honest I am nostalgic and owning a legend like the .270 will be hard to pass up. I do appreciate and want to support the research that brought us the 6.5 creedmoor and the 6.8 western so who knows.
I have a 300 wsm in a tikka, sweet shooter!
Something I will say is that the 300 PRC and 6.5 PRC come from the same parent case. While the 300 remains the full length, the 6.5 came from the 300 RCM, which is from a shortened 375 case. A short action 7mm PRC is still possible in my mind because of that.
That’s pretty much what I run. 7mm Sherman Short Mag (basically 7SAUM) which is a true short action built to use 180 Bergers at 3000 fps with RL26 or H1000.
I’ve considered wildcatting both PRC cases to 7mm. The .300 for 195 EOLs and the 6.5 for 180s for competition.
@@graynotescartridgebox Just from my short time with the Sherman I’m a big fan.
@@jjsemperfi yup!
Excellent video. Thank you!!🎥
I have noticed the same thing with the casing issue but with the browning ammo for my 28 nosler. I picked up a browning x bolt 28 nosler last summer in hopes for a good elk gun for Montana. It worked great but at the range sighting in I had some issues with casings not wanting to go in smoothly.
Seems like a natural progression of the 270 WSM to accept slightly higher BC bullets. Every other bullet size has seen success with cartridges doing this.
Metric is also in right now! 😄
You got it. There are heavy high BC bullet specific cartridges with moderate recoil for just about every other caliber. Winchester said "hey look, it has not been done for 270!"
Something new beyond the 6.8 Western then something new and something new. There's always going to be something new and people jump on the bandwagon...
6.8 western is a beast
I think a big component missed here in the comparison is the section density. I havent done the math but the section density on the 6.8 seems like it will be higher.
Awesome vid. The idea behind the prc cartridges is to pick an ideal high bc projectile and then create a zero compromise round. This is the opposite of the past where they did the opposite by picking an action length first and then cartridge and then bullet. Hate to say it but a 7 prc in a short action would be full of compromises. They knew what they were doing when they made it a long action. Right now the high bc .284 bullets are 185-195 grains. No question a medium to long action is best.
Your channel is doing great because of the simple way you deliver the information and the rich content of it. Stick with this format you’ll be fine.
As for cartridges I think we can all go back and thank the Creedmoor for the reason that cartridge comparisons are broadening and getting “juicier”. Now if we can reinstall ethical hunting it’ll be great
The 6.8 Western is why I think we're in the twilight years of the fast magnums. Speed might help but momentum is king and if you can achieve that momentum with high BC bullets, lightning velocities are not needed.
Wrong 100% wrong because there will be something new. Something better. Something more cooler coming soon. These video guys like this channel have to have new content. They can't say we've found the ultimate cartridge and now we're going to make no more product. Lol -- Tell me I'm wrong?
Always love the videos
I'm getting 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards with my Browning X Bolt Western Hunter LR using factory Browning 175gr. Sierra Tipped GameKing ammunition.
Nice comparison....and you just saved me a bunch of money. Not enough of a difference from the 270 to make a difference on a whitetail, bear, pronghorn, coyote, etc. I will spend my money on more 270 ammo :) Cheers
@@ronlowney4700 I think he has a bias against long action rounds. He is always talking about how with short action you get a shorter and lighter gun even though its only about a half inch and fraction of a pound difference. You can even see in this he uses heavy high bc bullets in 6.8 but mid weight bullets in 7RM.
@Nick most of his affinity for short action comes from the ability to shoot a shorter barrel without unburned powder, not the slightly shorter action length. Cutting off 4 inches of barrel length reduces weight and gives a better platform for suppression.
@Ron Lowney common sense? The 6.8 Western has significantly more case capacity than the 270. It will never keep up, regardless of how much nostalgia you have for it
@@traviskuntz7503 Short or long action your going to lose velocity with a shorter barrel at similar rates. The only way to combat that is higher pressures or less powder. The biggest thing is how overbore a cartridge is in terms of better short barrel performance. For example the 6.8 is going to perform a little better in a shorter barrel compared to a 7RM because it burns less powder overall. The same can be said of the 270 being a little better than 6.8 with the right powder in a shorter.
If you load the 145ELDX in the 270 WSM and the same in the 6.8 Western, is there really a difference that shows the need for the 6.8 Western? I don't think so. Not going to be a significant gain using the longer and heavier bullets.
I want 6.8 to succeed so bad ! It just seems so flexible with the right support. If savage( impulse ) or tikka make one I'm sold.
Yeah impulse rifle and 6.8 cartridge would be a fine hunting combo … maybe one day huh?
Cracking channel ,no BS, well done Sir
The “7prc” already exists, it is the Gunwerks 7LRM. The 7LRM (Long Range Magnum) is a non-belted case that has the same overall length as the 7mm Rem Mag with a standard magnum case head. However, the body diameter is larger with no belt. The case neck is longer and the shoulder angle is 30 degrees. The case will fit and feed from a standard magazine box. Velocity with a 180 grain bullet is 3075 to 3100 fps from a 26-inch barrel length.
So how does the 7PRC or 7LRM compare to a 7mag as far as ballistics? Where’s the advantage?
There is also the 28 Nosler
Awesome review. I think the main thing is you have a lot of people who grew tired of massive recoil for deer and smaller game which is why the 6.5creed was huge. But then many realized the 6.5creed was not great for 400+ yards on deer so enter 6.5prc. I'd say 90% of your hunters in the US are strictly hunting for deer sized game and smaller, which is why 6.5prc is doing so well.
Totally agree everyone acts like they shoot a moose on a daily basis. My deer hunting gun is a 6.5 grendel or a 7mm-08 and I absolutely don't need anymore gun.
First deer gun 30-06 180 grain . 1984 . Grow a pair .
First Deer Gun 14 years old 1984 , 30-06 180 grain . Grow a Pair .
@@imafreakinhistorian2169 come shoot my 28 nosler or 300winmag. 3006 bores me. Mediocre ballistics. No need for any of the listed above for deer. My 28nosler or 300win only come out for elk and larger.
@@imafreakinhistorian2169 My first deer gun was an 870 12gauge with a 3 inch slug sooooooo....... Ive killed a lot of deer with it but its not my favorite shooter anymore. 30-06 is fantastic but you just don't need it for deer. I with a lot of other people hunt with AR's.
Interesting comment about the Winchester ammo and chambering. A friend of mine was sighting in his 270WSM some weeks ago with Win 150gr Power Point ammo. Out of the 40 rounds, 2 rounds would not chamber and there were a couple more that were very tight. We could see the shoulders were more rounded on the two that would not chamber. There were a number of rounds that were not seated to the same length also.
I fully agree with what has already been said about the SAUM. Only thing I hope is maybe they shorten the 300 PRC case? Was really hoping for something I could run well out of a 20"-22" barrel suppressed for Mulies and Elk.
I love my 6.8 western Browning x-bolt Hells canyon max long range. People will always say, well its almost the same as the gun I already have so I don’t need it. Tomato tomoto who really cares. Buy one if you want or don’t. 🤦🏼♂️
I love the 308 and 243 both have never let me down
I like 308 because it’s cheap. 6.5 prc ammo right now is $4 per bullet. Ridiculous.
Yep 👍🏼 to much hype about long range hunting… to me it’s about getting close as I can to an animal … however in capable hands .308 and .243 are effective 👍🏼 at distance
@@CircleBrewery to be fair sometimes you want to take that long shot. It’s a nice option on the prc. I just won’t buy ammo for it lol
I've ordered one. I own the .270 Model 70, and the Model 700 .280 Remington. I like the short action and research that went into it. I'd like to see handloads though that allowed a 22 inch barrel as I only own one 24 inch barrel, that on the Remington .280. Don't really need another rifle though!
heck yah sir, congrats on the success. Finally googled you and seems like you have a “record” of making things successful and profitable over the years, which is awesome. Here’s to the run up to 500k ‘scribers, and wishing you many more as you educate folks on pewpews and ballistics and other things!
Well the “new” 7 PRC sounds like a 28 Sherman Magnum and the 7 LRM. If it has a short neck it’ll be like the 28 SM and if it has the longer neck, it’ll be a clone of the LRM.
I do wish that it would be made off of the 6.5 PRC case. I guess we just might need to support the wildcatters.
The 6.8 Western is awfully interesting, but needs a little more factory support to stick around and compete.
The 7PRC that he explains sounds a lot like my 28 Nosler to be honest. Not sure why Hornady would want to compete with that the 28 Nosler has a very big following!
Sherman Mag
I want a 7 PRC off the 300 PRC case. Ideally with Lapua or Peterson making brass.
@@adamkadir3803 well... u better look at 7lrm... cauz its the 375ruger case they saying its gonna base off too.... maybe change the shoulder angle? Lol.... 7lrm Improved= 7PRC 🤣🤣🤣
I REALLY hope the 7 PRC isn't just a necked up 7mm. It needs more length and more powder capacity so truly split the 6.5 and 300.
Here is my problem.......I sell guns in a pretty large outdoor store and we have gotten a total of .....ZERO.....rifles chambered in this round so far. Releasing a new chambering and then NOT supplying rifles is crappy at best.
Have checked 4 respective shops here in Boise Idaho and not a single salesman in the gun department has seen anything from Browning and say they don't expect to see any anytime soon. I had a Browning X-Bolt Mountain Pro long range in 6.8 Western ordered since 2021 shotshow and I just finally canceled my order 2 days ago as nothing has been seen from Browning. One dealer said he was thinking about dropping them and not carrying them anymore.
@@joshuayewcic9549 another bit of "shop" info......Browning has one of the smallest margins for sellers of ANY gunmaker.
@@larryborn1082 that is incredible! Sounds like all they care about is the propaganda aspect or sales pitching instead of selling. And for as much as they advertise and up talk there products, you would think they would actually put out the product.
Won't be the first time a gun company brought out a new product about the time all the hype fizzles out. Makes me think of the Ruger Gold Label side by side shotgun. Hyped it up like crazy, 20 years later still never met anyone who actually saw one for sale.
Love your work
I had the same problem with Copper impact in my tikka 270win. I bought one box to see how well it groups, 2 were tight closing and 1 wouldn't even let me close the bolt. Other ammo no problem with, just this copper impact I had problems with
Thanks for an awesome video. Basically, what I got out of this was I should buy 7 MM Remington Mag or 6.5 PRC. Reloading components are going to be scarce for the next few years and major manufacturers don’t back this cartridge other than one. Just another reason to probably by 7MMREM mag because it’ll be the only thing on the shelf if available. Thanks again!
I actually see TONS of 6.8 western from Winchester and Browning ammo on the shelves. I can barley find 7 rem mag around here because it's so popular.
@@ronlowney4700 excellent point! 👍🏻😃 I have one of those too 😉 luv my 270 win
Yep the only thing 6.8 has over the 7RM is that its short action which I dont really get why people care so much about its literally only about a half inch shorter and a fraction of a pound lighter. 7RM has better bullet selection, support (rifles, ammo, reloading), edge in velocity and ftlbs when using same weight class bullets.
Ammo shelves are full now in most places. The ammo shortage is over. Where have you been?
Wrong
I’ll stick with my 7mm Remington Magnum. No bullshit, excellent ballistics, lower priced and readily available!
Same for me but .300 Win Mag.
The 7mm rem mag is lower priced? 6.8 175s seem to be going for around 40 dollars and you can get them in almost every store near me. You can find 7 rem mag but the stuff no one wants to shoot
@@tjames525 Here in Pa / East Coast Not many people even heard of the 6.8 Western much less use one. Not sure where you are located but I’m sure that the 7mm Mag is far ahead as far as availability, bullet type/weight selection and price throughout the entire 50 states for both factory loads and cartridge reloading components.
Crazy! I live in Minnesota and near 3 Cabelas locations. I have been told that at all three locations the 6.8 western rifles sell before they even hit the floor. Which is the case for me. I was lucky enough to get one that was still on the truck. 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag seem very hard to come by here but that could be because of popularity or just the pandemic. Who knows. I have a 300 win mag and finding anything with a heavy bullet is almost impossible. Hopefully things get better soon
I pondered why I wasn't hearing near as much bashing of my 6.5 Creedmoor. The nattering neighbobs of negativity have a new kid to pick on...the 6.8
WESTERN. It's a rough and tumble world out there. In the end "so many cartridges overlapping their ballistics performance
Charts and so little time to try them all. Good informative video!
I definitely want a 7mm PRC, 165 gr, that’s my dream cartridge. But in a 6.5 PRC case.
Very good video & content .I vote for 7 mag , because of reloading & ammo availability .
I think there are a lot of people out there who bought a 6.5PRC in the last couple years who want just a little more, so I think the 6.8W is gonna eat into that fanboy fanbase. I seriously doubt a 7PRC is gonna do that to the 28 Nosler. There are already sexy fast twist 7mm cartridges in that velocity range.
Really intrigued by the 6.8 western. In the process to buy a 6.5 PRC for deer and down, but really wanting a flat shooting high BC round to handle elk on the next gun I purchase. I was kinda tossing between the 270 WSM and the 7 mag. This western has me thinking though. Hopefully in the next year these ammo and gun manufacturer’s establish whether they will or will not be backing this 6.8. That will help my decision process a lot.
I am buying the 6.8 Western, it will be a very good cartridge.
I’m a 7mm man also who is impressed with the 6.8. Not enough reloading components yet. Thanks
The 6.8 was just to late to the dance, I already bought a 6.5prc. Now if I wanted a .277 I’d just fast twist my old 270. I was very interested in a new 7mm but not the one you described. I to wanted something more like a better supported saum.
You won’t fit the long BC bullets in the magazine most likely if you did that with your 270Win.
Great video as per usual 👊
Did you ask any of the ammo manufacturers if they were considering making 7SAUM in factory ammo? Seeing as it's really picking up again in certain circles there are a lot of people like myself that don't reload but would love some factory ammo options for this cartridge
I'm not that excited about the 6.8 Western, but I am really interested in that 7 PRC.
Why is the 6.8 getting so popular, 270 WSM been in the game for a while and it is the exact same thing. Also has more ammo options and can reload
6.8 Western seems to be a great cartridge, but frankly I can't find any significant difference between the .270 winchester and the 6.8 western for hunting purposes. If I need more energy I would go for a larger caliber.
Basically, the difference between 6.5 Creed and 6.5 PRC. Both will do the same job with the same shot placement, you are just gonna have a few more tens of yards MPBR with the 6.8, as well as thumping em harder at range.
Tighter standard twist, short action, more room for longer bullets with higher SDs (especially allows for heavier lead-free bullets without the excessive meat-destroying speed of lighter ones).
@@scbane "Basically, the difference between 6.5 Creed and 6.5 PRC. Both will do the same job with the same shot placement, "
Not really. Both 6.5 Cred and 6.5 PRC are short action, both have the same 8" twist so can use the same bullets.
6.8 Western is short action, 270 is long. 6.8 Western has 8" standard twist vs 10" in 270Win, so it can stabilize longer bullets with higher BCs and SDs for deeper penetration into bigger animals, and higher (COAL - casing length) supports those longer bullets with longer ogives too.
I love my 270, but 6.8 Western is a definite upgrade.
@@scbane Ok, but if you compare a 270 winchester using the 130 grain bullet, (which happens to be the most popular and available bullet weight for that cartridge, and the one it should be used for comparing the cartridge) with the 6.8 western (any available bullet weight), you'll notice that the .270 shoots flatter extending its MPBR over the 6.8 western and wind drift difference won't be significant up to those distances. There is no need to discuss effectiveness on deer size game.
Now, If you compare a 6.5 creed with a 6.5 PRC, with same bullet weights, you are getting a muzzle velocity difference of 320 fps; whiche resembles the difference between a 30-06 and a .300 win mag using the same bullet weights.
@@PaulVerhoeven2 Thank you. I have just compared the sectional density of two bullets of the same caliber and weight; a lead free monolithic and a cup and core bullet of different brands; sectional density is exactly the same for both.