Is it fair to blame strikes for NHS waiting lists? Feat. Owen Jones and Lowri Turner | Storm Huntley
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- Опубліковано 10 сер 2023
- Some health executives have blamed striking junior doctors for the growth of the NHS backlog, with reports of growing unease among the ranks, Michelle Ackerley is joined by Owen Jones and Lowri Turner to discuss.
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#JeremyVine #NHS #strikes
Well done Owen, god help us. ✊
🤣😂😂🤣😂
Owens grasp of the data is spot on. An excellent journalist
@@crotchet1586a lefty troublemaker
@@johnou.k.3780 How the hell does that make any sense? You didn't refute the claim but instead called him a lefty troublemaker. So him being able to read data and get to the bottom of issues makes him a lefty troublemaker?
@@uqs57bju John thinks acknowledging trouble is the same as causing it
Owen speaking truth as per usual
It didn't help surely and when about get in the waiting list will get worse as they wo tube any private services heyook at Wales worst nhs ever
@@tenniskinsella7768 A word from the wise: maybe don't drink and off-road whilst typing
Pretty clear Owen won the debate and the public that called in sided with the NHS, you could see the blonde woman panicing mid way through as she was losing the argument then getting very quiet at the end
13 years of Government failure. ‘It’s the staff’s fault’. Gaslighting 101
"I'm being a realist" translation; "I don't want to tax the richest"
when she says "I don't know what to do" first she should be ignored as she offers no solution and second it shows that she does not care AT ALL about a solution because presumably she is rich enough to afford private healthcare.
She's a fashion and lifestyle journalist. She's just there to spout right wing propaganda.
"It's just, where is the money?" The money is 37 trillion worth offshore in tax havens.
That monarchy has 100Billion+ as well
and how will you get at it?
@@dolmen6613 the government decides what to do with that money stored offshore... Not for public service that is
The young doctor who called in at the end was excellent. Great points.. good communicator. Thank you also to the host who ended it there x
It’s almost like
1) doctors are some of our smartest members of society
2) doctors have very competitive job applications (as well as a difficult job working with a range of people) and therefore become very good at interviews and communication with the public
As much as our pay doesn’t reflect that and the general public like to compare how pay the average British worker
@@Bringon-dw8dx Personally, I'm not in favour of large pay differentials across society; if a job is worth doing, it's worth paying for. If a doctor's working conditions are good, the job is fulfilling and they have an opportunity to advance the system*, then the pay need only be enough for a good comfortable life in a nice neighbourhood, whatever that might be. I would want to pay everyone that way, mind you, so we'd probably need to collect some tax from those pesky billionaires and maybe stop subsidising fossil fuels, invest in 3 times the wind power we need so we can flog it to Europe and start living with the wealth of Norwegians, the Danish or other pragmatic peoples.. pity we can only manage to elect braindead cronybrats in to office. I remain optimistic though.. perhaps I'm a loony too..?
* before everyone starts shouting, I'm very well aware that most/none of this is presently the case. It is however perfectly possible over time with sound strategy. As it stands, Doctors pay should be restored and maintained.
Im totally on side with the nurses and doctors, the government can do one
I'd like to earn what the nurses earn, never mind the doctors.
me too
Do you actually know what the nurses earn? However, if you earn less than the nurses, you need to go on strike for yourself, or become part of the fight to end 0 hours contract and improve the "gig economy". The more people fight against unfairness, the less unfairness there will be, even in areas where people are not able to fight. Why? because better conditions in a lot of areas means people will have alternatives and can tell the bad employer to sod off @@denzel270
I get paid £4000 more in Scotland than i would in England as a top band 5 nurse. Let that sink in.
Ready for some crazy numbers.
The consultant pay in England is 93-126k. In Ireland it the AVERAGE (meaning 50% earn above this) is 204k. That is how much doctors in the uk are paid below their actual market worth.
@@Bringon-dw8dx ohhhh I know. That's why junior Doctors I work with are leaving the UK, or even the profession faster than the losses can be replaced.
Here in Portugal it's the same. The right accuses the strikers of provoking the increase in waiting lists and manages to convince some people. But then the union presents data from previous months and years without strikes with the same difficulties and people get confused. One thing I realized some time ago, since clinics and private hospitals were allowed to enter the system and partnerships between public and private health services (PPP) waiting lists skyrocketed and the idea was to reduce. The profit of some again interfere with the quality of services.
Indeed, The first time privatisation truly started in the NHS was 2012 with a Cambridgeshire hospital which failed. they had to give it back in 2015 to the NHS to recoup the costs lost.
What's wrong with yellow drs should t strike. One lady had her operation cancelled because of the strike. When she had
Operation she was worse because of the delay it hurts people
@@tenniskinsella7768 I heard that story - I do have sympathy for her I understand that some of these strikes will cause damage due to certain ops not needing delay but for the most part unless it's urgent there shouldn't be an issue
@@alice1374 will it wasn't thought to be urgent but it was think stillbe high waiting lists under labour sure of that
I started crying listening to the last caller… and tbh Lowry Turner… just come say as heartless… do you think she’s worried that ,as a top 10%er, she may have to pay more tax?
@@user-qk4tm7nn1q no you’re right…of course what was I thinking … though to be fair you’ve got no idea which tax bracket I’m in or how much tax I’d be prepared to pay in the interest of a more equal society but don’t let that stop you
@@user-qk4tm7nn1q thahanks for the tip… as you say they are two different things but again, you have no idea how I conduct myself so slack off with the assumptions of you don’t mind… that being said I can understand why you wold try to pay less tax, after all whoever does with the most things wins , right..
* sorry… spell check! … whoever dies with the most things wins”
@@user-qk4tm7nn1q i guess we can at least agree that this government can’t be trusted to spend or money wisely…
All love to you and I wish only good health and luck to you and yours
The 'generous' pension argument for most public sector workers is weak. Pensions used to be paid out at age 60 (or before). This is no longer the case, they are paid out in line with state pension age, which could easily be 70 soon. If you are young and trying to save for a deposit on a house you are not really interested in a pension paid out in 45 years time
Amazing how he brings up the tax loopholes and quickly gets cut off.. absolute corruption everywhere 😂😂
She does not let him speak.
This is programme which pushes a right wing agenda is a disgrace.
Wasim thank you for your service to the NHS....but I hope the low wages don't make you have to work abroad ...your very much needed here.
Low wages drs and nurses
Don't have Low wages and get a gd ated pension and an in reasonable their basic wage by working unsociable hours lots of people work unsociable hours but they don't get extra money
Lorry Turner will say whatever she is paid to say, money rules her tiny mind. Good on Owen for going on this tawdry show!
About as fair as driving your car into a ditch and then blaming the airbag.
JUST GET RID OF THESE TORIES THEY ARE THE PROBLEM
We're paying more and more money but less and less is actually going to frontline staff, so are we really giving the NHS more money?
Don't you be telling Turner the truth, she can't handle it.
Waiting list were going up well before the pandemic. It's been a steady rise since the Tories took over.
Well could be more people in the cou try thought of that be worse der labour you'll find dthat out when they win the next general election
And now it's going uo more isn't it.get back in to work.
@@tenniskinsella7768 How can it possibly be worse under Labour? They built 100 new hospitals last time they were in power. Tories have built exactly none! Bunch of corrupt grifters full of hot air and BS.
@@slimetimetv8517 It didn't need to go up at all though did it. What's your masterplan to end the strikes 🤔
Tell them to get bback to work and earn the pay they are already on
Owen SMASH, again ^_^
My friend’s father, diagnosed with cancer, waited 16 hrs for an ambulance! Listen to Owen he’s telling it how it is. Barb
Well done Owen!
How can you compare jr doctors to the average worker? And why are you bringing up consultants?? Pay them or they will leave. Simple
Almost shameful.
💜
Spot on Owen. Don't know who Lowri is but I don't think she had a clue what she was talking about, just spurting out things shes heard the tories say.
"I'm a realist" says the person with the pessimistic outlook. "I don't think that's accurate" "I saw some stats the other day" Well which is it? Do you think or do you know? Where did those stats come from? What was the methodology for aquiring them? Were they one set of stats or an analysis of a larger collection of studies? If not, do they stack up with what other people looking at the same metrics have found?
More people need to be put on blast for just saying "I saw some stats" like seeing them is enough without critically appraising if they're accurate ones. The state of florida released stats showing reducing covid deaths at the height of the pandemic, in reality they were delaying reporting to massage their figures and the scientist who was previously responsible for them was fired for refusing to go along with manipulating the figures, a staff aide also quit. But they were still official stats released to the public. I guarantee she's lying about seeing any stats but that alone is reason enough to halt the debate and pry into that claim.
It’s because her stats aren’t real. The ONS regularly published national data on the topic and the pay cut of the public sector is factually higher then the private sector, and then within the public sector the worse got are junior doctors (including 2022/23 inflation looking at actually creeping close to 40% pay cuts) and consultants (hovering around the 50% mark now with recent inflation).
The figures we are using of 35% for junior doctors doesn’t include in the 2022 or 2023 inflation.
Nhs staff are striking because they cannot do their work
The battle being: privatisation vs futureisation with the private sector. Big battle
The last caller will be fantastic doctor. His voice is calming, he is a good communicator and is compassionate, and you can tell he is conscientious.
“That's the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don't work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital.”
Is it fair that we keep airing political illiterates and shilling the government line on mainstream TV?
The framing of this question makes this show a big part of the problem. Shameful excuse for boradcasting.
Go Owen, that was the least one sided discussion I've heard on that show.
Blame the Tory, not the NHS STAFF, start looking from the outside of the Box for once
Sunak announced HIS “priorities” after the strikes (notably the nurses) were already voted for and publicly declared.
Either he’s an idiot or he cynically did it deliberately knowing he could blame failure on strikes.
Probably both.
Lowri is wrong. Public sector has fallen more than private sector.
Lowri is wrong again. PFI’s were a Major scheme. Expanded by Blair but Majors policy.
Lowri again doesn’t understand that when unionised workers get a pay rise the result is that non unionised workers benefit too with rising wages.
People at the bottom deserve to be paid adequately for their work. You should be able to live on a wage. Currently that’s not possible for lots of people.
They don’t care about facts
Nothing to do with mass uncontrolled immigration then...
I've sacked the push up of no need anymore
Turner spends more on terrible facial procedures that would probably keep a family of 4 in luxury for 12 months….
She needn't bother, as those facial products are clearly a waste of money
You lose any argument once you get personal
@@danielcollinson4456 Childish comment
@@staceykeeley4219 Thanks Turner….
@@staceykeeley4219 Turner doesn’t do personal…do us all a favour.
A healthy nation is a wealthy nation we need to do the right thing.
In my area, I can get a GP appointment easily but a waiting times at local casualty department are up to 18 hrs.
The government has announced that the waiting lists are to be brought down by the private sector. How is it that these private health care companies can find employees to meet these contracts and the NHS can't?
It seems like the conditions being set in the NHS by the government (low wages and heavy work loads), provide favourable conditions for private health care to take over form the NHS.
More money? Simple, Les TAX breaks for the rich and corporations. Stop funding the war in Ukraine would help too.
Lowri Turner being aghast that people, should expect pay rises anywhere near inflation. Then having a problem with doctors and nurses from abroad. Fine then don't give the doctors a pay rise. Then the only reason anyone will go to medical school is to get trained then emigrate to Australia etc... Leaving the NHS to go around recruiting from the developing world to fill the never ending vacancies.
No!
A realist would support a root cause analysis.
The Health and Social Care Act was in 2012.
The current Social Security Regulations were in 2013.
There are still waiting lists over 24 months and we do not have parity of service across specialties.
Pointing at events in the last 12 months is not a reasonable or rational analysis of factors affecting the waiting time clock.
When people have money they use them and we have growth . Right.?!
Then businesses can sell stuff to people and then we grow.
It’s odd these people arguing for growth don’t think it works out When we do it for all people. Apparently we have to exclude 90 percent of the population from growth to have growth?
Why don’t the believe in profits for crafts men, service people etc ?
It’s very odd.
When people get more profit from their work ie. They earn more and pay more taxes..
Not really sure the government is there to govern - more to push wads of cash into their pockets through fast and easy insider deals
Good medical care is expensive. Bad medical care is more expensive
She thinks talking louder will win 😂
Yes.
Staff paid into pension scheme every month. My daughter was one
I HAD a high regard for Lowri Turner
Thank god i tore my ariel out of the tv in 2014 and have not had any uk terrestrial tv inyo my home since, if this is the tripe they have the gall to push......blaming nurses for 13 years of the tories decimating the NHS.
You know nothing about the show
@@staceykeeley4219 I will pray that your soul one day will break free of its programmed hate filled darkness that these type of shows drown ones soul in to the point that hate feels normal.
@@bob23301 The show promotes both (or more) sides of any discussion. I see no hate in listening to all views aired.
Christiana made me cry 😢
Imagine having a soulless job defending the government and arguing against hard working people, some of whom are eating from food banks. I really couldn’t personally, no matter how much the J vine show paid me.
Why is Lowrit bleedn Turner invited onto this debate? What is her expertise?
She's a nutritionist.
Being a presenter of “changing rooms” in the 90s?
When zoonak gives turkey money for a train , and ignores the UK's needs says it all
#Patwa FCA and Windrush? Rwanda Deal?
Who is that spitting image dummy on the left of the table based on?
What a dumb title. NHS waiting lists have been too long for over a decade; years before the strikes began last year. The 'health executives' being supporters and enablers of private practice are part of the problem.
Why is Lowri Turner even involved in this discussion? My 11 year old grandson has a better grasp on this.
I see she even devolved to where is the money coming from? Spend a pound into the NHS and get £3.50 back, a no brainer.
Think every one knows NHS staff need a good pay rise but where
Is the money coming from to pay for this ? 0ptions charge for this
Service raise national insurance both would cost public more
In tax rises poor would not not be able to afford to visit NHS services
The government can issue the money, we have our own sovereign currency. The government can always meet it's liabilities. The new money is clawed back via taxation. With the NHS you get over three pounds back for every pound invested. It's called the Multiplying Factor.
Money isn’t an issue. The strikes have already costs more this year then just paying for their FULL demand.
The pay is there, the government just has different priorities.
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We find money for the Ukraine
The money tree is always available for war and bailing out the rich
In part
doctors are not the average person on the street, so why should they be paid the average wage?
Because the British public are crabs in a bucket, they will pull each other down rather then work together to try and appease the wealthy overlords.
The uk for years has been addicted to cheap European workers this means wage supression this means less tax paid this means less money for doctors . The uk doctors are saying they are losing staff to Australia why Australia have control of borders this means better pay for all more tax paid more pay for doctors . This is why everyone cant have a rise in pay . You cant suppress working class workers pay who have to compete with eastern European workers and then expect pay rises for civil servants nhs staff or anyone with a union .
What's happened to Lowri Turners face? Has she been in an accident, ill?
She's an awful person who seems to have plagued shows like this for decades...
@@leebritnell2405 Yeah, I used to watch her on the wright stuff 20 yrs ago...she always reminded me of Ill squeem and squeem and squeem.
ua-cam.com/video/HXiZHXkG-ac/v-deo.html
Is it fair to blame strikes for NHS waiting lists... Err, No.
Seems to me it's a Goebbels style attempt to blame our NHS staff for their mistakes.
Yes, they aren't helping at all. Get back to work.
Of course striking will affect the waiting list (barely in comparison to the other issues), but the fact this is even the topic of debate is completely ridiculous and solves nothing, just a waste of time.
The NHS has been starved of money, there is not enough workers as the wages are low. Sunak is a liar, (as we know), he has no idea what it is like, all the bills going up, mortgages etc. What a country we have become, people go hungry, bailiffs, low wages, no hope, British people are leaving this country because they have had enough, suicides are up in numbers. Survival of the rich, the rest of us are down trodden. Do the tories want us to doff our caps? Do we call him sir, king, or master? 😢😢😢😢😢😢
This is the result of decades of underinvestment in the service. It is quite intentional .. The Tories hate the NHS because it is socialism in action. From each according to his ability to pay. To each according to his need. Standard Marx. The service was in great shape in 2010. Due to funding by Labour. Then funding fell from the 4% per year to 0.8%. That alone was enough to shatter the service. The Lansley Bill made competition compulsory. This increase increased admin costs hugely..The CCG in my city cost over.£6 million in salaries each year.. Most NHS services could not afford to bid.
Absolutely spot on
I have a somple question for you - only sensible answers please
How aee these pay demands financed given when NI increases wereesuggested everyone said no including labour
What?
@@AdamReade which bit isn't clear?
The thing is we, the customer, always pay.
A private company builds a thing (eg power plant) they recoup the investment costs through pricing.
The government builds a thing they recoup through taxation.
The only difference is profit extraction. Anything that is critical, power, water, Internet, healthcare, transport, it makes absolute sense to run these without profit extraction.
@@James-mb3je so how is it paid for?
@@mikecook1537 are you hard of reading?
How is what paid for?
Everything is paid for by us, the end user. Always. Why pay out profits and dividends on top?
shouting match
The woman kept shouting over the man, 50% of which she was factually wrong about
*_The blonde woman was far too annoying to listen to the whole video,_*
It’s just the blatant misinformation and lying.
She refused to believe the private sector had better pay rises despite the ONS publishing stats saying it’s true
She then refused to acknowledge there was a way to pay for the pay rises, even though if she actually listened the man next to her explained how it was affordable
One can’t have both a free NationaI Health Service AND uncontroIIed ma-ss innigration*. So, what is it to be?
Au contraire Mr Fox 🦊 it's innigrants that are propping up the health service, without them it would crumble faster than it already is. I've been in hospital a good few times this past month (visiting) and as I'm sat there people watching I noticed that most of the health care professionals are black and brown people and most of the patients are old, fat and white. It's the old, overweight whiteys clogging up the system my dear friend, whilst the young caring darkies mop up their sh*t 😘
As no one is suggesting uncontrolled mass immigration your question is redundant.
@@kennycube5126
But it’s occurring, and has been for many many years. And looks set to continue, for many many years to come. How do you think our NHS will fare by the end of it?
And are you liking your own comments again?
The problem is your question is false; misleading: xenophobic AND fails to understand that those who vote for the evil party are the same people who have INCREASED migration; but facts don't matter if you are determined to believe right wing propaganda!
@@durhamfox5271Think before you speak next time.. If immigration was uncontrolled, they wouldn't be holding so many of them in hotels, waiting to be processed.
The NHS would be fine if we weren't paying so many private companies to use it as a guaranteed income.
No, next.
Well yes it is fair got a few claps during covid and there ego got big. Get back to work and do your job!
Sunak lyng again
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