Solder testing (and candy).
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2018
- A while ago I was sent some bits of solder by Oskar and Ragnar in Iceland. They had been using old solder successfully, but when they tried some stuff from an eBay listing it was poor quality. They got some new stuff from a local electronics supplier and it was fine.
Here are some random tests of that solder and others.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of UA-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty. - Наука та технологія
Hey Clive, glad you enjoyed what I sent! The last name is pronounced BER-GHER, like HAMBURGER (it's German origin)! Looking forward to seeing the taste test with your brother.
Phillip Berger Thats a very nice gesture, especially the Jack Daniels... the single barrel is just as good as Makers Mark...
Combustion Kills well I like Clive. He seems like a good guy and I wanted to reward him for making so many entertaining videos.
Are you allowed to send alcohol out of the country?
Nice selection, I like the multiple brands of the same type item. Cheez Its vs gold fish. The different chocolate chip cookies.
Walt B. I thought about that. Rather than waste my money on shipping and import tariffs, I used Amazon.co.uk. Problem solved.
Riskteven Frankfurters are good but you should try Sauerländer too :)
> watch a Scottish man evaluate all the snacks that I eat all the time, for the first time
> 30 minutes
What a time to be alive
In my case it is
> watch a Scottish man evaluate all the snacks I've never heard of in my life
Goldfish crackers are so ubiquitous it was hard for me to imagine there is anyone who's never tried them.
Thanks for checking out my solder, it appears that the problem was with the operator not the equipment. But you live and you learn. I love the smell of the Wurth solder though.
You are probably the first non-Icelander that likes our licorice candies.
Some solders are more difficult than others and experienced solderers may not notice it as much. Flux has different levels of cleaning power and such, and also clive was going to ... receptive surfaces, not something too patinaed.
I may have missed it in the video, but cleaning the grease and dirt off the board before soldering helps a lot.
I wish I could get that lakkris in the US (salmiakki too).
I've found that almost nobody else likes that stuff here.
That crave box looks like he went into a gas station and grabbed the first 20 things he saw. :) definitely all prototypical american snacks.
Very nice gesture, however for the same price could have gotten quite a few non-Gas Station corn syrup snacks... wait a minute, we really don't have much available that isn't full of HFC. Used to love it when my SIL in the England would send us Chocolates. Definately a step up from the crap the conglomerates make over here full of crap so it can last 5 years on a shelf.....
That gentleman sure did you a square sending all that stuff. On solder choice, I am highly opinionated. I was in the Air National Guard. In the Avionics branch at that time, I learned how to solder to DOD STD 2000-1 standards. My teacher was an inspector/instructor rated person in this soldering discipline. It is unforgiving in nature as soldering to this standard is very serious indeed. Solder joints under this standard must be able to endure G forces, physical and mechanical stresses and thermal inversions as well as vibrations. This is about mission first mentality and knowing someone or more than one person’s rear is dependent on your work being exemplary. Solder we used was Sn63, 63%tin/37%lead and had a Rosin Mildly Activated flux core. 3.3% flux per roll weight rated. This was Kester 282 and the other companies were AIM and Alpha Metals with the exact same specs. RMA fluxed solders spec’d as these were always produced consistent, reliable and repeatable results with the highest quality, highest brightness of surface appearance and lack of defects for any given situation. I trust my Kester and my Multicore Sn62 which has a Rosin flux core and has a 2% silver content. This solder is great for use in instrumentation work and avionics. Thing about these two is what I said, consistent, reliable and repeatable results. I am fanatical about soldering and quality. It matters not just what you do, but how you do what you do that matters. People who don’t solder to this quality may not understand. It’s an art and a discipline. The lazy don’t care and the committed techs do. Those involved in military contract work, avionics, bio-med, aerospace and high end work get it. Second place is first loser. Just because you aren’t working in the industry or military, does not mean you cannot up your game and learn. Quality work says more about you than you know! Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
If anyone reading this ever gets the chance to try (genuine) 60/40 lead solder, go for it without hestitation and you'll be suprised how better it is and how forgiving it is. Disregard all the hype about lead-free, that only applies to the mass-market, manufacturing and sold to the consumer. The most striking example I've seen so far of the difference it made to a production run of 60's / 70's reproduction guitar amps, they used lead-free solder and it was a disaster with solder joints coming undone with vibration and had to keep redoing joints. The only cure was to redo all the joints with 60/40 lead solder once and for all. Kester / eutectic Sn63 etc is even more reliable, but requires specialist skills, it's used in spacecraft and cost 20 times the price. With eutectic solder, you get mirror-like finish, while it cools you don't see it cool down, there's no intermediate stage and it's either liquid or solid.
@@jagmarc You don't mean 60/40. You mean 63/37, the eutectic. Because eutectic solder is much less likely to let you make a cold solder joint.
that no flux possibly was a mislabeled no-clean flux
Never even crossed my mind, thanks for bringing this up!
my soldering experience spans 52 years. born in 57 and started soldering in 67. my 1st iron was one of my moms butter knives held over the fire on the stove with a welding glove. im j-std certified and solder on high end military items. i thought i saw it all but this demo was the bomb! very enjoyable!!
Trying to remember back 50 odd years.
I vaguely remember a solder I used many years ago that was labeled NO-FLUX or something like that.
It actually meant no flux required.
By the way. I love the videos. first thing I do when I turn on my computer is check for the latest videos by Clive, Julian, Dave
and Pure living for life.
"No flux given...."
the evinylist someone put that on a t shirt
the evinylist Ya beat me to it, ya bastard!
damm you beat me to it
Dude, I don't give a flux!
lols
Reminds me of how the solder specialist (Ron) used to test solders at STC where I lab teched after leaving school. He had weighed beads of each solder batch, and lengths of standard wire clamped in a swinging arm like a mouse trap. The beads of solder were heated on a small hot plate until the test temperature, and then the wire was swung down to rest in the bead, and the time for the solder to close over it was measured. Sometimes bead and wire were trimmed and encased in a slug of plastic that I was then give to cut and polish down through many grades of wet emery paper, till I had no fingerprints, so the metallurgists could see the join and crystal structure. They were even working on an aluminium solder, but I could never make it stick to anything. (I was very impressed with a magic etchant mixture the metallurgists had for showing the crystals in sheets of aluminium, which looked beautiful. I tried many times to work out what the mixture was, but I only ever succeeded in making a dull mess of what had at least been a nice shiny surface if not with visible crystals. :)
13:57 It has actually flown *that* nicely that a mirror image of you behind your phone is visible on it.
The stuff that did not solder ( no 3) has been contaminated by the lead in the tinned layer on your tip, making an alloy that would solder. Even the tiny amount of lead in there would make it work better, it probably is a lead free of poor quality, but very little lead in it. No 6 is a no clean flux solder, which can be left after use, but which does have a flux core. Best though cleaned off, it just is less active flux that can be left in place on non critical joints.
I have done electronic soldering using solder rod, just have to be careful to only use a tiny amount of solder per joint, but using an external application of flux it did work well, to do solder joins that needed a massive amount of solder to make high current joins. Yes the SRBP board will delaminate very quickly, especially if it has not been oven dried before soldering, as the adsorbed moisture in it turns into steam with the rapid application of heat. The way to reduce this is to simply oven bake the board before soldering, preferably ( for a home etched board) after giving it a layer of spray on flux to protect the copper surface. Then much less popcorning will happen, especially with lead free solder at the higher temperature. Commercial boards have a pre solder bath or oven bake to ensure this, plus the temperature profile provides time for the gas to diffuse through the laminate as well.
Thank you for 'popcorning', and the related explanation; the delaminating has caused me significant annoyance (just recently, fixing an LED lamp) but I didn't previously have a good name for the effect :-)
I have had some ridiculous results trying to use 'lead free' solder and an unregulated iron. (From the same package, bought in a pinch @ walmart). Chunks of solder would break off before the joint flowed! (and fall off)
I've heard that some cheapo chinese stuff actually uses far MORE lead than it should, since the lead is cheaper than tin. the issue is often that the lead is of low purity and the flux quality/quantity is bad
Any rosin 'non-corrosive' flux can be left on, it is just ugly. The yellow crusty snot next to all the joints isn't very attractive. AFAIK, rosin only converts oxides, until it is spent and turns into a hard brittle residue which is no longer active.
Very interesting. I've been soldering electronics for about 50 years and again I learn't something from Clive's video that I didn't know. .
I've been working as an Elec. Tech. for about 26 years. I've come to love Kester 24-6337-8807. It's a 63/37 mix. It's a no-clean, low-spatter, flux core solder with a fairly small diameter. I'm so happy with the way it works, not only do I requisition it for my job, but I also ordered a 1 lb. spool to mount on my home soldering iron. We tried to make the switch to lead-free solder in our lab, back when RoHS and WEEE regulations went into affect, but we all hated the way lead-free solder flowed when soldering by hand, so we're still using good ol' lead when building prototypes. Fun video! I enjoyed this one. :)
I know I'm late to the party but, when you were soldering and the raised section appeared, I immediately thought "that board has blistered". You then went on to say that it was a pool of flux, I thought okay you're there doing the job, you know your stuff and you have a better view than any of us, so accepted what you had said. Imagine my surprise at the end, when you stated that what i thought was indeed correct. This is the first time and more than likely the only time I got one up on BigClive.
Love your vids, keep 'em coming and we'll keep watching and learning.
I’m American and I’ve been watching this channel the last year as my electronics journey has begun. Came for solder info and am surprised at how warming it is to see you go over these snacks.
It might be "no-clean" flux, rather than no-flux.
That's what I was going to suggest. I have used it for life safety devices for years.
google's instant chinese-to-english from live camera apparently was lost in translation :D
Or maybe they ment no seperate flux was needed.
The best solder I ever used was Radio Shack’s silver solder, which I believe was 57 Sn/40 Pb/3 Ag. I do a lot of work building high performance audio gear and I really appreciated how well it flowed, how nice the joints looked, and the electrical results were excellent. Use of past tense in the previous sentence because unfortunately Radio Shack is no longer with us. R.I.P. Radio Shack, you’re gone but not forgotten. Since then I’ve switched over to Kester “44” 60 Sn/40 Pb rosin core solder and am pretty pleased with the results, it’s not very expensive and it’s great for most of the stuff I use it for. If I’m feeling particularly spendy when I’m making audio gear I’m going to use myself on a daily basis I sometimes go for Cardas quad-eutectic solder, which you might not want to price check unless you’re sitting down.
Ah yes, Radio Shack, where they always tried to get your name, address and phone number even if you were just buying a 25 cent battery. (And the battery was free if you joined the Battery Club!)
Back in the 1950's my dad, a farmer, had to repair the bottom of an old milk pail, seems it had sprung a leak. So out came the white gas blowtorch and the wooden handled heavy soldering irons, he lit the torch, man the roar of that thing, I can still hear it in my mind, then put the iron through a hook built in to the top of the torch, resting the iron rod that held the strong head over the flames. He took a bit of steel wool and scrubbed the bottom of the pail then, when the end of the iron was red hot, took a roll of rather thick acid core solder and heated the leaky spot on the bottom of the pail and pushed the solder onto the pail, it melted nicely and filled the hold, leaving a nice patched look on the bottom of the milk pail. Thus the pail was saved to hold milk for yet another year or so, till it once again was in need of the old soldering iron. This was my introduction to the art of soldering. I guess now days, the snowflakes would be howling at the moon over the use of lead based solder on a vestal that would hold the milk the poured on their cereal in the morning.
The best part of the show is the food, just seeing him going through what, as an American, are just standard brands
Was about to sleep, but then Clive lured me in with a video with "candy" in the title.
Clive the sandman
I love the smell of solder in the morning!
I love all the little reflections.
I was recently diagnosed with diabetes and completely cut sugary snacks from my diet. So it looks like I'll just have to live vicariously through Clive. :D
It's a common misconception that diabetics have to cut sugar entirely. It's about maintaining good blood glucose levels and for that, you will at some point, have to consume some form of glucose.
I have some approximately 30 year old 1mm thick solder, it still works fine, neither better nor worse than „modern“ leaded solder. The rosin flux in it has a fantastic smell though which reminds me of my childhood. The modern ones can smell good but nothing comes close to it.
Oh i know that smell! My childhood smells like Stannol. The solder was decades old already when my dad taught me to solder.
I keep a small card of that stuff when i feel like reliving it.
*sarcastic voice of Clive*
But you'll get cancer.
I've found that a lot of the leaded solders being sold from china are not the correct alloy. They behave like they have a much higher lead content (e.g. 40/60 instead of 60/40). This means that they are very pasty and won't flow well enough to get a topside fillet. While it makes sense that they might be cheaping out given the relative cost of tin versus lead, high-lead solders have legitimate applications (just not PCB work). If ever you need to fill gaps (e.g. soldering large wire to terminals), 40/60 will make a complete joint where 63/37 will just run straight out.
It's also worth admitting that it's just as likely that the china solder is just remelted batteries and wheel weights with a bunch of antimony & calcium contamination. That, and the fluxes are usually complete garbage anyway.
I'd love to do some sort of metallurgical analysis on ebay solders, but there's really no point. Any samples tested today won't represent what's available tomorrow.
This is what I also suspect. Incorrect or contaminated mixtures, along with bad\intermittent flux.
Yeah, some of that flux smells pretty foul and doesn't so much melt as it just burns into a crunchy mess.
Absolutely spot on. Cheapest garbage lead and tin simply melted together. Problem is lead used in many forms is actually an alloy itself, not simply lead. SO, using recycled lead from unknown sources and simply adding tin and calling it 60/40 is simply a guess by the Chinese manfs. Add to that using who knows what as their rosin/flux, and thats how you hit such a cheap price point.
I've even heard of some cheap 60/40 solder from China that's actually like 20/80 because lead is cheaper as it's no longer used in pencils and paint
@@joshm264
Pencils never had lead.
Excellent videos man! Whenever I feel lonely in my lab/home, I put any video of yours to keep me company while soldering
Nice one Clive. I bought some lead free solder a couple of years ago... I thought 'Oh lets try this'... damn never again.. absolute crap. I now use Rapid Electronics 22SWG lead based solder. It's splendid.
Thanks for the video. Excellent and informative as always.
Lead free solders take some getting used to because they behave a bit differently. For starters: They need higher temperatures. And not all lead-free electronic solders are eutectic; i.e. they don't have a melting point per se but as their temperature increases they start to soften up and get porridge-like consistency before they fully melt. Some solders need to heat up another 20°C to get from porridge-like to fully liquid. This can catch people who are unaware of that off guard. However: You can easily compensate for that by working a bit slower. Don't feed fresh solder in too quickly (even if what you have on the joint is already liquide it might "porridgify" due the fresh solder being cold and lowering the temperature at the joint) and stay on the joint for a bit after you stopped adding solder, to be sure it is all liquid. Sure, it's an adjustment, but not bigger than getting used to a new soldering iron.
@@MrAranton The other thing common to all lead-free solders is that they're vastly inferior in every way to properly formulated lead solders :)
I'm fond of the silver bearing solder myself. It's my "secret weapon" to good-looking, solid solder joints. I became familiar with it working on old Tektronix 'scopes, which needed silver bearing solder to keep the solder from leaching the silver out of the bond attaching the contacts to the ceramic strips. I'm currently using Kester 62/36/02 blend (2% silver), which seems about ideal, but a little tricky to find (and a bit pricey). When I was a kid, I noticed the illustration on the Kester "5 core" packaging, and tried to actually see the five flux cores, but I couldn't figure out a way to cut the solder that didn't mash up the end too much. However, my uncle Ted was curious too, and finally ended up cutting it carefully somehow (scalpel?), then buffing the end and sure enough, I could see the 5 individual tiny rosin cores.
I remember that 5-core solder package with the picture, my dad worked on TVs. I was amazed that something that small could be so intricate.
5 core was sold in NZ under a different name, I still have a roll somewhere as a vintage item. My father and I did the same test in about 1960, cut with a Gillette razor blade and examined under a microscope, same result.
jesus, if I were to buy that stuff from the gas station across the street, I'd be more than $100 USD in the hole.
My point was that the gas stations charge a premium on junk food like this. It would cost 100 bucks for this stuff there. Gas stations make their profit from people buying pops and candy bars on impulse. When people are trying to eat better, they either lower or raise the prices. As I was saying, 100 dollars would MAYBE be able to buy all of the contents of his box.
A few of those in the box were sample size, so they'd be a lot cheaper.
Interesting comparison. What was also interesting was the delamination which I had also initially thought was the flux flowing around. Would never have imagined!
Glad to hear you were in Florida, I live down here, hope you had a good time!
Keep up the great work Clive, love your videos.
I love to watch you solder, it just amazes me especially the fiddly things it just looks to me like it won’t stick but it does.
Vintage Tektronix scopes came with a reel of silver solder inside. This was because of the ceramic tag strips used that had to have silver solder on them.
I remember that now.....that was an amazing design
Incase you actually used regular lead solder on it , you just basically destroyed the thing (deplated the creaming and it's done)
You are so right about soldering simply becoming second nature after enough practice.
I have been soldering since about 1956, designing and building goodies, then went on to being a tech in broadcast stations, on to the military where I was still in electronics and finally a quarter century in the phone company soldering hundreds of connections on an average day on circuit components that were anywhere from new to 70 years old.
I think at this point I'd have to try really hard to do a poor joint.
Excellent video!
I thought I was good at soldering. Then I did it in a production environment. A few tens of millions of solder joints later, it's like I've trained some dark part of my hindbrain for 3-D heat flow analysis.
+Dream Services International As a teenager so did I. Then I had uni industrial placement servicing avionics...
About 35 years ago. I have purchased a reel of Maplin Electronics branded solder which I used for electronic kit building and for repair work. I still have the same reel and still has plenty of solder left over. It's 60% tin, 40% lead, flux content 2.2%. It gives excellent solder joints and I am very pleased with the results.
Hi Clive. Thanks for another great video! Probably the "no flux" on that solder is more a misnomer and serves to indicate that there is no need to add extra flux. I remember that old solders didn't have flux at all and extra flux was always needed. Probably, that one was one of the first to have flux.
Just a thought, the "No flux" solder may at some point in time have said "No clean flux" which means it's either a flux that you can leave on the board and it won't corrode or damage the board, or it means it will evaporate fully during the standard soldering process. In either case it means you don't have to clean the board if you use the flux according to instructions.
I'd be very interested to see your views on 63/37 and other alloys, as well as any different flux types.
Nice to see a comparison of the different solder types. Most of them - to my surprise - were so shiny that we could see your reflection.
Watch out for the sugar level with all those delicious goodies.
Definitely thought it was flux on the board. Thanks for the last minute addition
You mentioned liking low temperature solder the best. Eutectic 63-37 (vs 60-40) has the lowest melting point of any of the just lead and tin solders. My experience is that the joints stay shiny and "freeze" all at once. You may want to give that a try too.
My experience is that that the melting point difference isn't really appreciable, but it is easier to get clean joins with the eutectic stuff. I seem to remember that the low melting point stuff has a bit of bismuth added, maybe that's what Clive is thinking of.
Clive that was really good and very educational. Thank you.
Hey Clive woofs. I have found here in the US they have taken the lead out of plumbing solder and it does not flow well at all I make radio antennas from copper pipe I use the electronic solder and it flows so much better Also I had a guy that’s a rep for a auto battery company try to tell me that crimp connectors are better because you loose conductivity if you solder them ? I do not believe that one bit when I make up battery leads for the big trucks I buy the good battery ends flux them and the OO cables using the high temp solder and my acetylene torch with a small tip heat the terminal with the wire in it until the solder flows into it . I have never had any issues with corrosion of the solder melting even with a long crank over on a cold morning I do the same with wire harnesses on trucks and trailers I solder all connections and use shrink tubing never have a failure even after years of salty road winters You should come up with a test to see if there is any loss from solder verses crimp connectors Dave in the US
A properly fitted crimp connector is just as good as a soldered connection. But you have to use good quality crimp terminals, the correct wire size for the crimp and the correct (expensive) crimping tool.
and seal it well to water proof it that's the problem I run into with crimps exposed to the weather had to replace a whole harness on a lift gate because some one poked tiny holes in it troubleshooting a earlier problem and fixed it with crimps could not cut it back far enough to get to clean wire salt water being blasted into it at 70 MPH it acted like a wick sucking up the water thru the whole thing .the wiring on the out side of any vehicle has to be sealed tight . I use shrink tubing and silicone sealer liberally .
the reflection of your hands from all the solder points was funny
Watching them pool up and solidify is so satisfying!
A shoot-out with lots of different solders sounds an excellent idea! The crap solder did seem to have a sort of crackle effect on the surface, maybe down to the type of flux in it floating to the surface and not burning off. Ideally I would like to see all the joints after a quick wash down with isopropyl. Interesting to see what it did with SRBP - maybe try with a lower temperature?
The thing with SRBP is that it does not like being kept heated for too long. A normal 2 to 3 second solder joint would be fine.
NATURE VALLEY? Break out the shop vac
Bloody Grundel I snap them into finger width pieces before opening the pack then carefully open it to form a tray shape that I can pick bits out of.
Best comment here.
Yeah, and the sledgehammer to break it apart.
It's always good to have your tip plated.
My preferred solder brand is Stannol. Absolutely love it!
Mother of God... I need one of those Crave boxes.
A review of cheap Ebay solder would be very useful.
I bought a spool of some from there (Chinese) and it solders very poorly. I suspect it's high temperature solder but as I can't read Chinese there's no way to know what it really is. So any review would need to identify the temperature type being sold.
It's just a crap alloy, most likely. Just buy some decent solder - if you're in the UK expect to pay around £16 for 250g.
Well, it usually says on the spool what its made from. It uses the annotations from the perodic table. Pb is lead, Ag is silver, Sn is tin and so on. If it has none of those on it, but just numbers or percentages like 60/40 or 63/37 its lead tin solder. If it has some weird stuff like silver, or copper, its probably either lead free or high temperature. Sometimes you get leaded solder with some silver in it or something, but thats fairly rare.
I tried a couple solders from ebay, this one works fairly well for me. www.ebay.com/itm/272226064337 assuming you get the same one i got, you never really know on ebay. There probably is a lot of variation from batch to batch i would think.
I've had some of the stuff labeled Kaina and it was absolute garbage. Best function: Paperweight. Probably made of melted down paperweights.
It's so not worth playing the solder lottery.
mine works fairly well tbh. But some others from china are garbage. You really never know i guess
My hypotheses:
1: It's a high-lead alloy (40/60 or 30/70) since lead is a shitload cheaper than tin
2: the lead is taken from scrap metal sources (batteries, wheel weights) and has a lot of antimony, calcium
Even if you could answer the questions regarding the alloy, you'd still be left with solder that usually has foul, ineffective, and often missing flux.
Normally, I like to do these sorts of tests, and I kind of want to know myself, but I don't see the point. Anything that you test today won't represent what's available tomorrow.
well Clive. you have made it. I just watched several minutes of you going through snacks on an electronics channel knowing I would like the content to follow it. lol I watch all your videos and I am always entertained. thank you for the content.
Glad to hear you're not eating on video anymore. I was taught eating in front of others who aren't eating is bad manners. I had planned to ignore any video of yours containing food. Pity, 'cause the rest of the content is priceless ☺
Clive, why am I watching you unpack your groceries? Why am I *still* watching you unpack your groceries? These aren't even shady pink Chinese groceries!
Duality K Probably because you hope there will be some unreasonable force or explosion in it, I guess :)
I've been soldering since 1976 and I wasn't even born until 1977.
"Who needs flux, when ya got amniotic fluid?"
loved your "bonus topology" in the end :D
Although the solder flows around the resistor wire do they adhere to it? How strong are the bonds, what force would be needed to pull the resistor out?
Kester 37/63 245 No Clean Core 63% Tin 37% Lead Solder Wire - 0.015" (0.38mm)rosin based low temp Melting temperature: 183°C set immediately .My favourite.
I agree, would like Clive to add 37/63 in the future. Melts faster, looks fantastic, and the lack of phase change, Cold-Flowed vs Cold-Wetting-Flowed is the icing on the cake.
To my mind, the shinier the solder joint, the better. Hazy joints look cold and dry. The Wurth solder looks great but the cheap Chinese stuff looks terribly patternated and contaminated.
evilution
I've read that lead-free solder does not look shiny, even when correctly soldered...and takes a higher temp to solder correctly.
correct , lead free just isnt as nice, is crustier and doesnt flow as well, i was given a small roll and gave it a try, i wouldnt buy it, but it at least works
Clive, you win a prize for most offbeat combo of topics in one YT vid - bourbon, sweets, and solder comparison testing
Very good BigClive. Also, on some irons, expanding and contraction with on/off cycles, tip in the iron can become loose, making the tip be not has hot as needed, making some soldering jobs more difficult even with the same solder and pad sizes. Had this happen a few times where the shank (or screw with generic hobby irons) had to be tightened so to make good heating element connection so the tip reaches intended temperature. May not happen often but can happen. Just a note for anyone what can happen and good-to-check solution when having issues on normally easy but stubborn soldering jobs.
Disregarding the fact that the peel strength of platings on paper phenolic is low, even FR4 will absorb a lot of moisture from the air. In a production environment, boards (and possibly parts as well) will be kept in an oven for days before they're populated. It's especially important for certain processes and boards with large solid copper pours.
But yeah. paper phenolic is just not worth the hassle on a hobbyist scale -- especially for people trying to learn soldering (high tip temps, long dwell time)
i prefer phenolic because it is pretty easy to machine. Doesn't dull your drill bits and snips as quickly as FR4.
You do need fume extraction when machining. Then again, you need that too for the glass fiber dust...
FR4 is a whole lot stronger though.
I bought a roll of supper thin stuff by mistake but it's absolutely great it's hard to put too much on :-)
Amazing seeing you in possession of our American snacks...enjoy... favourites vary from place to place..I have a few more from Alabama you should try...I really enjoy watching your videos.. thank you for the entertainment and education. Steven
Excellent video Clive - keep them coming! When I do solder I use a couple of rolls of ERSIN multicore which I've had for over 30 years - as you can see I don't solder so much now! I've tried the lead free and its rubbish!
That thick solder, just goes to show, size doesn't matter... :P
Speaking as someone who solders SDIPs on the reg...it does.
Now try soldering 01005 surface mount components using that iron and thick solder!
But you'd use solder paste and a hot air pencil instead, I hope? :-)
The FR2 PCB material used is often referred to as "paper/phenolic", using cotton paper layers in place of chopped/spun glass fibre in CEM3 and woven glass fibre matt in FR4.
The binding resin/polymer is phenol formaldehyde in FR2, and epoxy in CEM3 and FR4 giving working temperatures of 105°C for FR2, and 130°C for the epoxy based PCBs.
The "bubbling" of the copper is a combination of
(a) exceeding the working temperature of the Phenolic resin,
(b) subsequent delamination of the copper and the base material, and
(c) thermal expansion of the copper in the delaminated area - heat radiating from a point.
There may also be small amounts of gases generated from partial decomposition of the Phenolic resin, but the primary cause of the "bubbling" is the delamination and the thermal expansion of the copper.
Note as it cools the "bubble" shrinks, i.e. the copper only partially contracts as it has been stretched as well.
I have been using a solder with the trade name No Flux for well over fifty years! My understanding was that it was one of the first - possible the first - to incorporate flux in the wire; previously it was common to have plain solder and use a separate liquid flux, so No Flux actually meant 'no separate flux needed'.
I wonder why here aren't the comments, that Clive should wash hands after handling solder before eatling lmao.
*EDIT* : Now i saw one comment like this. :D
Cheese 1337 if its good enough for electronics, its good enough for me
It hurts me to see lol
J2308 S8 when I was in school we took a field trip to Skipton Castle in northern England and there was this great square tub like a pool table but deeper and the guide told it was lead for its ability to not rust and it's was used to brew the castle's beer in!
Was thinking the same thing, although the amount of lead transfer will be very low, lead is a CUMULATIVE toxic element that builds up in the body over time, as the body is very poor at eliminating it through excretion. Also, exposure to rosin based solder fumes may cause sensitive individuals to develop eczema and/or asthma. Rosin is known to be a CUMULATIVE skin & lung sensitiser, by skin contact (fume), or respiratory sensitisation by inhalation. So even if someone has been soldering unprotected for years with no problem, hypersensitivity can develop at any time and be incredibly debilitating, leading to having to find a new line of work!
So while occasional exposure is usually OK, anyone dealing with solder on a regular basis would be wise to wash hands after use, and use a suitably rated fume extracter/filter.
Closeups from the side to see the profile how the solder flowed would be very telling.
And I keep hearing "BEAR copper" in my head...
It would have been better from an angle, but my camera setup is straight down.
Some times people edit closeup stills into the video, that would work very well for this sort of thin.
An early birthday present to myself in the form of a TS100 soldering iron came in the mail. My 15€ ceramic iron had bit the dust, so I have been using the 8W USB "ZD-20U" exclusively. With the nice french made solder, it works a treat. A while back, my order of cheap eBay solder and flux arrived. The "ZD-20U" was unable to melt it properly, even with a generous helping of flux. It performed abominably with a butane torch. The TS100 did it just fine. In short, try it again, with a low powered iron such as the "ZD-20U". I head it also has a firmware update that raises the temperature, I'll try that.
Back in the 80's multicore pre-flux was expensive. ( 70's - I Like to think I'm younger than I am)
We tried that RS solder and as I recall it was left on the shelf most of the time due to similar issues.
We used it for Valves And hot applications where heat had caused problems with the joints.
I was taught as a lad to remove flux from the work as most were acidic.
Today common use of Rosin has negated the issue.
I still have a pot of Non acid flux paste from 40 years ago :)
My favorite Solder Was (And still is Fry's 60/40 as I have a few rolls left)
Hate non lead "Dry joint bate"
I learned Hot iron short time on contact.
I have seen so m,any PCB's damaged by low wattage irons and brute force.
If I get chance I will send you a bit of the Fry's to play with.
I am like Gollum with it :)
no flux given...
Good stuff that Rapid Electronics solder - I use the same :)
It's the choice of professionals. Probably.
You should start a club, Rapid Electronics Solder Users Club, or something.
The german equivalent to Rapid Electronics is Conrad, but they don't sell Lead based solder online (anymore). Curses! Guess I'll keep using the 8 rolls of cheap chinese solder. Or buy 60/40 from Amazon.
Yay foxy likes solder from rapid great stuff mines at least twenty years old !
I went to the rapidonline website to get some per this recommendation as I just end up with a metre here and there in little bags from ebay at random, and it was going to be around £29 with delivery, though seller "rapidontheweb" on ebay had it for £23 delivered - I mean, it looks all the same so I just had to go with that honestly.
As well as being difficult to work with, lead-free solder can destroy the tips of some soldering irons. It requires a higher temperature to melt, but once you do get it melted, it can actually dissolve copper from the soldering iron tip. That copper becomes part of the solder and ends up in whatever you are working on, so after a while, the tip gets eroded away to almost nothing.
This tends to happen mainly with solder composed of 99% tin with 1% copper, when applied to soldering iron tips which are themselves solid copper. Which is partially why a lot of new soldering iron tips are made of brass alloys, or sometimes copper with a reasonably thick layer of nickel or chrome plated onto the surface. If you clean the latter type too aggressively with sandpaper or a metal file, you risk taking the plating layer off. Then they are susceptible to the same type of erosion described above.
I live down the road from the Jack Daniels distillery. During the warm months, they have tours nearly every day, and you can just jump in with a random pack, if you ever want to go and look around. Weirdly, most of the tours are full of tourists, the locals don't really see the big deal.
Nice to see a pair of brothers so close... too often people drift apart. And yep, I think Ralfy and Whiskey will go well together for some reason .
With regard to the solder, I am lucky... found some 5kg (yes, 5kg) rolls of 60:40 rosin core high quality stuff.... enough to see me out
TheChipmunk2008 more Ralfy cursing!
5kg roll? imagine what kinda muscleboy would be needed to manhandle that thing and solder straight from the reel!
Then again, everyone can have bear arms with enough practice, so after you've lifted that reel too many times because you're too lazy to cut a piece out, you'll start having a hard time with your buddies at work explaining why one of yer arms is suddenly much larger...
I love Goldfish! My brother in the US sends a care pack every Christmas. The highlight is always Goldfish. But I'd keep away from the pizza flavoured ones......they are terrible.
Hope yourself and Ralfy will do a joint video of the JD and sweeties. Those videos are always good fun :)
John Carr can’t wait for such a video!
Oooooohhhh, I love the pizza flavored ones! I also like the pizza flavored cheese balls!
William Squires I hate the pizza and bbq flavours.... on all snacks. They all try to get it right but they all fail. And find that US snacks get it wrong worst.....too much flavour.
Jeez, I'm being grumpy on a happy channel :(
The pizza ones are the best. Same goes for the pizza flavored Combos.
I agree the Pizza ones aren’t so good. The flavour blasted cheddar ones are my favourite.
Great video, Clive! Really informative and to the point.
I'm relatively new to soldering, definitely still learning. I tend to find when soldering, the solder (or more likely the flux?) pops and spits all over the place, getting tiny balls of solder everywhere and giving me tiny little burns all up my forearms.
What would you suggest is the problem? Is the iron too hot? Am I using the wrong kind of solder? Too much solder?
Anyone's input would be appreciated.
Cheers!
Solder does sometimes pop and spit a bit when soldering, but you may have your iron too hot and it might be worth trying a different solder.
Clive, the reason why modern solders usually contain 5 cores of flux - at least decent brands do, is so that you don't get the problem of having lengths of solder without flux. As far as I know, the "standard" of 5 cores of flux was started by Multicore Solders Ltd back in the 50's. You may find that the silver solder screwed up your tip because it froze to the joint, when you removed the tip from the joint, you pulled (ripped) the iron coating off the tip. I've noticed that a lot of Chinese solder has a problem with the alloy ratio, cooling and finally setting to a dull lumpy mass and seems to need more heat to get it to flow. Not all Chinese solders suffer from this obviously, just the cheap stuff. Oh, and back in the 50's, 60's and 70's they used an awful lot of resin in their solder, we used to moan that there was more flux than solder sometimes! Used to smell different too, much more like turpentine than it does today. Edit to add: "No Flux" solder probably means it's fluxed and therefore you don't need to add any, as in "no extra flux required".
Very Good Test Clive !!! I have not been able to find a good solder for sometime now- I too thought I was seeing flex pool around the joint. I actually liked most all the solder you tested from what I could see When I was younger and they were not so hard about lead based products -that was the best solder ever soo easy to work with and ALWAYS shiny when cool! I still think that the shiner the better !!!! but sad to say those days are gone.-Great video Thanks for posting !
Leaded solder is readily available, they're not at all hard about it. It was never, ever banned or made hard to buy.
Monkeh it's not about being hard to get for normal people. It's about if you want to manufacture a product. When you're manufacturing a product, esp if you want certifications like RoHS, that's when it's cracked down on.
You can use leaded solder to repair things built with lead free solder, but you will need your iron adjusted to the higher temperature of the existing lead free solder to get a good joint.
Sure, but if you're manufacturing a product for sale you have an assembler deal with it. Lead-free processes work just fine. He said he couldn't find good solder - that's hilarious, because I can find ten different brands of quality solder of every alloy and flux composition going, and they'll all arrive next working day.
I'm addicted to Cardas QuadEutectic. For 5 years I couldn't get a bad joint with it, it always worked perfect, even with USB powered irons. Very expensive though.
The third one labeled, "crap" didn't look like the flux was doing its job.
it brought up a lot of surface crap, but worked, not ideal, but seen worse, lead free is usually worse
I remember a cereal as a child in the UK called Chex. But it's since gone. It used to be similar to shreddies but really thick and sweet. I remember getting little picture mini books in a box.
I've had to do similar trials myself, as you say 60/40 rosin core solder is pretty much all the same and what gets interesting is when you move away from that. Obviously I try to use lead solder wherever possible however at work, we have to do conventional soldering on product that actually leaves the factory so of course that has to be lead free. I'd love to see you compare some lead free solders, the one we eventually settled on was a tin/silver/copper alloy but there are all sorts of weird alloy concoctions out there to play with.
Might be worth mentioning acid core flux. (For plumbing)
A common misunderstanding I see a lot.
Please not for electronics
FYI. Nabisco, who make Oreos, is the National Biscuit Company. Biscuits. In America.
Jim Fortune it was founded in 1798 so they were most likely called biscuits in America at that point.
That NOA Lakkris bar is absolutely delicious. I've visited the chocolate factory that makes them and after a tour around the place we recieved some samples of Icelands finest chocolate.
I always bought cheap off-brand solder, but for my last purchase, I actually decided to put down the money to get a decent brand (Kester--very popular in the US). I must say, it is certainly superior. It flows much more cleanly, and has noticeably more flux within it, which has greatly aided adhesion.
Glad to hear your opinion of the tip cleaner/refresher. I've been considering purchasing some in an effort to make my tips last longer. Seems to be some good stuff.
How about trying plumbing solder? The type used on copper pipes
RCdiy The flux used in that will destroy your board.
And that stuff is lead free as you'd expect. Don't want traces of lead in your water.
Plumbing solder has no flux in the wire and these days is simply pure tin. So.. you may as well just buy pure tin solder wire for electronics use and have flux..
It's the acid flux that is bad for electronics. Much worse than the RA (rosin active) flux that must be cleaned off to avoid corrosion.
In plumbing, you wipe the outside of the pipe with a wet rage to remove the flux and the initial flush of water clears the inside.
Yeah, plumbing sometimes gets me into a wet rage too :)
Oreo thins are the best ones.
I would agree but then they came out with the dark chocolate oreos and I can never go back. Wish they did a dark chocolate oreo thins.
@@commoncents7330 they will. They Must.
I HAVE TO HAVE THEM.
2 years ago I bought my first iron and some flux core 60/40, it was sold by HQ and to this day I'm still using it. It flows at around 190-200 degrees and has never let me down.
Yep the Fun Dip packs are back in my days when I was a kid in the late 60's and early 70's ,,,, The Dip stick is candy and it is dipped into the powder and licked off...... The stick is usually eaten after the powder is all gone.... I do realize that this comment is a couple years old... I love your channel since I was into electronic radio repair over 25 years ago, and I am going to get back into it soon .......
In the UK we have Dip Dabs. A fruit lolly in a packet of sherbet.
Is it weird that I hold my breath when watching you flow solder?
No, you're supposed to [hold your breath], while the flux smoke clears. Then exhale gently over the new joint, to cool it but avoid freezing it :-)
You read far too many X-Men comics.
I dont know the bad solder looks a little crusty on the video
Very interesting, as always, Clive! The delamination of SRBP boards is a problem when replacing components several times, you sometimes hear "crackling" when heating a joint too long I have found.. As a side point, I would want to wash my hands after soldering with leaded solder before touching any food..
It’s interesting that adding silver to solder up to 3%, while it aids the flow by lowering the surface tension, it also lowers the conductivity, which would be considered to be surprising, but is true. Moving to 4% to 6%, increases the conductivity, and well as the strength, but begins to raise the temperature (as well as the cost). Bars and rods of solder meant for HVAC ducts also has silver added, obviously not for conductivity.
Looks to me like it's more about the skill of the user and less about the type of solder.
Looking at your box of "American snacks...." and feeling sad this indeed is the trash we eat.
The lead free solders are really horrible to use, they melt at a much higher temperature and flow poorly with a high surface tension that refuses to wet connections. They also solidify with a horrible glassy surfaces that looks like a dry joint. I tried the soldering iron tip refresher and for a little while, at first I thought it was wonderful stuff, later I discovered that it was slowly destroying the soldering iron bit.
I have found the best way to keep the soldering iron bit clean is to use the brass or stainless steel wool cleaning sponge replacement.
I want some of that Wurth solder. That made a beautiful pool.