Hi there! Really enjoyed your video. I'm repairing my late grandmother's old Peter Pan gramophone. I've ordered a rebuild kit and needles for the reproducer. The main issue is that speed control is out of commission. If you have any advice or resources on repairing the speed control, I'd appreciate your help!
The speed control in any mechanical phonograph is simply a friction pad that rubs against a disc on the governor. Depending on were it is set with the speed control knob or lever ( knob in this case) the friction pad restricts the governors speed by not allowing it to expand past the friction pad. This machines may be British but it uses a Swiss made motor. Common issues with these Swiss governors would be a broken governor spring with possibly a missing weight, a frozen shaft not allowing freedom of movement for the weight assembly, or overly tight bearing caps. What you need to do is a full cleaning of the motor, this involved disassembly. If it's spinning now the spring is probably OK, it should be removed from the can and cleaned, but this is not as easy on these motors as on something like the HMV 101 or the Victrola VV-50. At the very least you will have to remove the governor, examine it to be sure the parts are not frozen and the springs are intact, lubricate the friction pad with oil. If you are in the USA you can send the motor or the entire machine to George Vollema at www.victroladoctor.com/ and he can handle the repair and cleaning, mind you this is how he makes his living and he charges good money for this service. If you are mechanically inclined you should be able to figure it out yourself if you work slowly and take pictures as you work so you know how it all goes back together, use good properly sized screwdrivers. Chapman Screwdrivers are top quality and hollow ground for proper fit when working with precision screws as found in these machines. chapmanmfg.com/ The spring is the most difficult part in the motor to deal with, it's messy, and can be dangerous if it gets away from you, or breaks, wear heavy leather gloves when working with it, fortunately the spring in the Peter Pan is tiny compared to Victrola springs. This also means they tend to be weak, I had a broken spring in mine and had George Vollema dig one up for me, he has never yet let me down when it comes to these oddball type springs. You may find it's too weak to play a record in full, that's common with these small motors. Many Swiss motors had a fiber gear in them running off the governor, the Peter Pan was made in several variations over a number of years so it's possible your motor is late enough to have a fiber gear, if so do not let it get wet with solvent or oil, dust it with powdered graphite for lubrication or just leave it dry. clean it with mild soap and cold water, dry it promptly. These gears are not reproduced that I know of, they can be difficult to replace, I have even had to buy entire parts machines to get one. This is one of the reasons I limit my fooling around with Swiss made machines. My Pan had a brass gear, hopefully your does also, probably does, the Pixi Grippa also has one of these early 20's Swiss motors, that one had a frozen governor shaft, I had to soak it in Kroil for weeks before it freed up as with brass parts involved I did not want to force anything. Reproducer, this is not a straight forward swap in gaskets job, you have to change the gaskets yes, they are rock solid and ruined now, just a rubber tube cut to size and glued in with clear nail polish in a few spots to hold it. The diaphragm can be reused so long as it's not cracked or delaminated, if it is then call George for a proper sized replacement, you will need the old one to measure. Most parts places have the basic sizes for the Victor Exhibition, No2, and No4 as well as one or two Columbia's, beyond that it's custom work. The needlebar must be straight, that means the needle must be perfectly aligned with the side of the reproducer body 90 degrees. It must be carefully adjusted so it's perfectly aligned while the "foot" of the bar is just slightly touching the diaphragm. This is were the rebuilder earns that $40-$60 they will charge for the service. It can take hours to get it right. Bars get bent from being dropped on the floor, banged around or dropped on a record too many times over the last 90 years. In my experience every reproducer I have rebuilt needs work done to the needlebar. This involves gently bending it back into position. Some of these reproducers use potmetal, they easily crack and swell causing disassembly to be a fun job, or impossible. Parts used for these machines were sourced from multiple vendors over the production run, Peter Pan was what we call an off brand, the company making it bought parts from other companys and assembled the finished product, Victrola on the other hand made everything in house until the end of 1931. The pans were a novelty phonograph in their era, today they are sought after because they display on a shelf nicely, and there is just something cool about these tiny machines, I am a sucker for them having three or four now of various type. I have the Pan, the Pixi Grippa, and two small German machines as well as a few parts machines so badly deteriorated they are past help. Make sure that diaphragm is not touching the reproducer body when you seal it up or you will get horrible performance from it.
Thank you so much for your reply! That's a lot of valuable information. I was able to find a reproducer rebuild kit from Mark Sommers on eBay. It seems to match the original, which has a 1 15/16 inch diaphragm. I removed the top wooden covering, exposing the metal motor housing. I wound up the spring and let it play. Everything seems to be working as it should. The governor spins up, and the spring is in good condition as far as I can tell. To be more specific - it seems that my problem is that there should be some kind of flange on the speed adjust screw that allows it to contact the arm of the friction pad mechanism. Either there is a flange that's missing, or part of that arm has broken off. I think I will try to mock up some kind of flange, because it's easier to do that then to disassemble the whole motor to repair the arm
Have you seen 'regular' portable Peter Pan gramophones? I'm trying to find information about mine, like how old it is. It resembles the portable ones by HMV for example. Do you know where I could find any more information on this company?
I was unaware that Peter Pan even made larger portables. This isn't a common brand in the states, they were marketed more in the UK, or so I am told. The HMV 101-102 portable has to be the most copied of any portable. Homocord in Germany, Paillard in Switzerland, as well as other imitators in the Uk all made a machine that looks like the HMV models. I am not even sure Peter Pan was anything more than a name put on other company's products. The motor for instance is Swiss. This was not uncommon at the time for a company like a furniture store, or big department store to want their name on a Gramophone but didn't want to make it themselves. Here in the US I have not come across much about the Peter Pan machines. I can say mine has a good tiny Swiss motor, and a good reproducer, they didn't go cheap on the parts.
I'm just about to put mine back to rights. Picked it up on eBay and took it apart to find one governor spring snapped and the mainspring broken right at the barrel end. I'm guessing the governor broke one day and sudden imbalanced runaway caused the spring to break, but who knows. Hope to have her back up and running again at the weekend, tho. I'm going to try filing down, annealing, drilling and reinstalling the original spring for now, but they're not too diffy to take apart (and only about £30 to replace) if it all goes wrong, and I have a bit of spring steel for the governor. Fingers crossed! EDIT: goes without saying, but yes, I'm rebuilding the reproducer.
The spring in mine was a disaster, weak to start with it had been repaired before and was just too short to mess with. I located a replacement from one of the parts sellers here in the states. If I recall correctly I used white rubber tubing intended for Victor or HMV Exhibition reproducers to rebuild the one for this machine and it worked out well. The white tubing is widely available due to the number of Victor and HMV machines that used the exhibition. One tiny gramophone has now turned into several of them, they just seem to show up. Good luck with the project.
I used the same white tube gasket that the parts sellers provide for the exhibition reproducers. That’s the Victor exhibition or the HMV exhibition same gasket material. I actually find quite a few reproducers that I use that gasket on.
I haven't looked to see what they go for lately. Like this one in good condition with new mainspring, serviced motor, and reproducer, probably 400-600 USD. I remember seeing them in need of full service going for around 175-225. That was years back, these are not common in the USA, they could go for more.
There seem to be many of these around, I suspect the small size helped them escape notice when it came time to clear out closets and attics. I see them come up on eBay from time to time.
This little guy actually sounds good!
Отличный патефон! Патефон моей мечты ! Автору спасибо !
These are good records and record players
We must preserve these
I am trying to preserve as many as I can. Service them and get them new homes where they will be played.
Nice to hear billy Murray
great video.
WONDERFUL!
Hi there! Really enjoyed your video. I'm repairing my late grandmother's old Peter Pan gramophone. I've ordered a rebuild kit and needles for the reproducer. The main issue is that speed control is out of commission. If you have any advice or resources on repairing the speed control, I'd appreciate your help!
The speed control in any mechanical phonograph is simply a friction pad that rubs against a disc on the governor. Depending on were it is set with the speed control knob or lever ( knob in this case) the friction pad restricts the governors speed by not allowing it to expand past the friction pad. This machines may be British but it uses a Swiss made motor. Common issues with these Swiss governors would be a broken governor spring with possibly a missing weight, a frozen shaft not allowing freedom of movement for the weight assembly, or overly tight bearing caps. What you need to do is a full cleaning of the motor, this involved disassembly. If it's spinning now the spring is probably OK, it should be removed from the can and cleaned, but this is not as easy on these motors as on something like the HMV 101 or the Victrola VV-50. At the very least you will have to remove the governor, examine it to be sure the parts are not frozen and the springs are intact, lubricate the friction pad with oil. If you are in the USA you can send the motor or the entire machine to George Vollema at www.victroladoctor.com/ and he can handle the repair and cleaning, mind you this is how he makes his living and he charges good money for this service. If you are mechanically inclined you should be able to figure it out yourself if you work slowly and take pictures as you work so you know how it all goes back together, use good properly sized screwdrivers. Chapman Screwdrivers are top quality and hollow ground for proper fit when working with precision screws as found in these machines. chapmanmfg.com/ The spring is the most difficult part in the motor to deal with, it's messy, and can be dangerous if it gets away from you, or breaks, wear heavy leather gloves when working with it, fortunately the spring in the Peter Pan is tiny compared to Victrola springs. This also means they tend to be weak, I had a broken spring in mine and had George Vollema dig one up for me, he has never yet let me down when it comes to these oddball type springs. You may find it's too weak to play a record in full, that's common with these small motors. Many Swiss motors had a fiber gear in them running off the governor, the Peter Pan was made in several variations over a number of years so it's possible your motor is late enough to have a fiber gear, if so do not let it get wet with solvent or oil, dust it with powdered graphite for lubrication or just leave it dry. clean it with mild soap and cold water, dry it promptly. These gears are not reproduced that I know of, they can be difficult to replace, I have even had to buy entire parts machines to get one. This is one of the reasons I limit my fooling around with Swiss made machines. My Pan had a brass gear, hopefully your does also, probably does, the Pixi Grippa also has one of these early 20's Swiss motors, that one had a frozen governor shaft, I had to soak it in Kroil for weeks before it freed up as with brass parts involved I did not want to force anything.
Reproducer, this is not a straight forward swap in gaskets job, you have to change the gaskets yes, they are rock solid and ruined now, just a rubber tube cut to size and glued in with clear nail polish in a few spots to hold it. The diaphragm can be reused so long as it's not cracked or delaminated, if it is then call George for a proper sized replacement, you will need the old one to measure. Most parts places have the basic sizes for the Victor Exhibition, No2, and No4 as well as one or two Columbia's, beyond that it's custom work. The needlebar must be straight, that means the needle must be perfectly aligned with the side of the reproducer body 90 degrees. It must be carefully adjusted so it's perfectly aligned while the "foot" of the bar is just slightly touching the diaphragm. This is were the rebuilder earns that $40-$60 they will charge for the service. It can take hours to get it right. Bars get bent from being dropped on the floor, banged around or dropped on a record too many times over the last 90 years. In my experience every reproducer I have rebuilt needs work done to the needlebar. This involves gently bending it back into position. Some of these reproducers use potmetal, they easily crack and swell causing disassembly to be a fun job, or impossible. Parts used for these machines were sourced from multiple vendors over the production run, Peter Pan was what we call an off brand, the company making it bought parts from other companys and assembled the finished product, Victrola on the other hand made everything in house until the end of 1931. The pans were a novelty phonograph in their era, today they are sought after because they display on a shelf nicely, and there is just something cool about these tiny machines, I am a sucker for them having three or four now of various type. I have the Pan, the Pixi Grippa, and two small German machines as well as a few parts machines so badly deteriorated they are past help. Make sure that diaphragm is not touching the reproducer body when you seal it up or you will get horrible performance from it.
Thank you so much for your reply! That's a lot of valuable information. I was able to find a reproducer rebuild kit from Mark Sommers on eBay. It seems to match the original, which has a 1 15/16 inch diaphragm.
I removed the top wooden covering, exposing the metal motor housing. I wound up the spring and let it play. Everything seems to be working as it should. The governor spins up, and the spring is in good condition as far as I can tell. To be more specific - it seems that my problem is that there should be some kind of flange on the speed adjust screw that allows it to contact the arm of the friction pad mechanism. Either there is a flange that's missing, or part of that arm has broken off. I think I will try to mock up some kind of flange, because it's easier to do that then to disassemble the whole motor to repair the arm
Is It's a long way to Tipperary by Billy Murray
Billy Murray and the American Quartet recorded this version in 1914 for the Victor label.
Rockisland1903 thank you for the information
Have you seen 'regular' portable Peter Pan gramophones? I'm trying to find information about mine, like how old it is. It resembles the portable ones by HMV for example. Do you know where I could find any more information on this company?
I was unaware that Peter Pan even made larger portables. This isn't a common brand in the states, they were marketed more in the UK, or so I am told. The HMV 101-102 portable has to be the most copied of any portable. Homocord in Germany, Paillard in Switzerland, as well as other imitators in the Uk all made a machine that looks like the HMV models. I am not even sure Peter Pan was anything more than a name put on other company's products. The motor for instance is Swiss. This was not uncommon at the time for a company like a furniture store, or big department store to want their name on a Gramophone but didn't want to make it themselves. Here in the US I have not come across much about the Peter Pan machines. I can say mine has a good tiny Swiss motor, and a good reproducer, they didn't go cheap on the parts.
@@Rockisland1903 Thank you so much for this information. If you're interested in seeing it I just posted a video on my channel.
I'm just about to put mine back to rights. Picked it up on eBay and took it apart to find one governor spring snapped and the mainspring broken right at the barrel end. I'm guessing the governor broke one day and sudden imbalanced runaway caused the spring to break, but who knows. Hope to have her back up and running again at the weekend, tho. I'm going to try filing down, annealing, drilling and reinstalling the original spring for now, but they're not too diffy to take apart (and only about £30 to replace) if it all goes wrong, and I have a bit of spring steel for the governor. Fingers crossed! EDIT: goes without saying, but yes, I'm rebuilding the reproducer.
The spring in mine was a disaster, weak to start with it had been repaired before and was just too short to mess with. I located a replacement from one of the parts sellers here in the states. If I recall correctly I used white rubber tubing intended for Victor or HMV Exhibition reproducers to rebuild the one for this machine and it worked out well. The white tubing is widely available due to the number of Victor and HMV machines that used the exhibition. One tiny gramophone has now turned into several of them, they just seem to show up. Good luck with the project.
you're lucky!
Where did you get the gasket? I have one of these and want to rebuild it's reproducer
I used the same white tube gasket that the parts sellers provide for the exhibition reproducers. That’s the Victor exhibition or the HMV exhibition same gasket material. I actually find quite a few reproducers that I use that gasket on.
@Rockisland1903 ah cool. I was thinking about getting an exhibition gasket but wasn't sure if that was right
What do they cost? I ve the same in brown
I haven't looked to see what they go for lately. Like this one in good condition with new mainspring, serviced motor, and reproducer, probably 400-600 USD. I remember seeing them in need of full service going for around 175-225. That was years back, these are not common in the USA, they could go for more.
@@Rockisland1903 thank you alot i love this gramophone technique this is real quality
400-600. Would you like to sell it?
@@gunnarthefeisty thank you my friend no because that thing is very cool and it looks brand new the sound is amazing love this poketgramophone
all these commenters saying they got a Peter Pan... Lucky guys
There seem to be many of these around, I suspect the small size helped them escape notice when it came time to clear out closets and attics. I see them come up on eBay from time to time.
@@Rockisland1903 I found mine at an antique shop in Oakland, CA. Missing folding platter and crank.