Grandpa never used TTY bolts either. Or made 1000hp. Lol You can use whatever you want. As long as your ok with saving the money knowing is could cost you time
I like it dude. Feels so dumb to throw away what seems like perfectly good bolts. Also, any experienced mechanic will berate you for it. But then again the same oldschool mechanic thinks torquing bolts with angles seems stupid and nonsensical so take from it what you will, haha. I felt so stupid spending more than 100 dollars on BMW crankshaft bolts from reassembling the timing chain multiple times. Throwing those big, heavy, barely used bolts in the garbage. Here's my personal rule. Reuse TTY bolts at least once is fine. When doing the angle part go a little easy on it. So if the spec says 180 degrees maybe do 150. Reason being exactly what this video showed which is that the reused bolt will overtorque with the same procedure so if you reduce the angle slightly you should be in the right spot.
Hey, I replaced headbolts and the manual says *torque to 75nm *loosed all bolts *torque to 20nm *90° *90° I only did step one, torque 75nm only found out later i had to do all steps. I now have driven 160 miles without problems. Should I complete the steps, loosen them and then 20nm and the steps, or just leave it?
I loosened them and retighten them one by one. But my torquewrench starts at 40nm. So I did 40nm and 2* 90° somewhat, maybe a little less. Maybe they are too tight now I don't know, I checked every bolt at 75nm and it clicked right away. I drove 85km You think it will explode and leak again? You have some faith? Its a little 1994 lancer 1.6 four banger
missing a big difference in a stud vs bolt. this test didnt show at what TQ on the wrench = what result at the fastener , how consistent , etc... i prefer studs for the constancy and it's how it should be done if OEM wasn't cheap. and if anyone has an aluminum block.... i cant imagine not using studs.
At lot of unknown factors reusing these TTY bolts. The tests referenced were probably not well documented as to the life cycle of the bolts used and the torque specs/methods used during each install. Was the block and head steel or aluminum? What was the max temp ever reached on the engine(s)? If it's a junkyarder in a weekend hoopty, it might be different than if it's your reliable work truck used for hauling. I wouldn't reuse them blindly.
This is really interesting info. I noticed auto parts people do not try to sell the TTY bolts for bearing assemblies. Now I just found out that the late Chevy I have needs TTY and of course I would need a angle gauge just to install. Just crazy, yet I suppose it has its purpose (connecting dissimilar metals). Would TTY be an improvement over standard, who knows? Thanks for posting!
Wise advice. In all things in life, buy the most expensive option, period, no other considerations. Nothing less than the most expensive thing will ever ever work. Most expensive house, car, dog, lawnmower. Blindly spend the most, it's the only way to achieve a goal
I bought a set of tty felpro bolts for my 4.6 ford engine. But after this video im thinking of using the old ones but do i have to use same torquing and angle steps !!!
Link no more workie. Was that tensile testing done on the threads? Where is the bolt yielding? If it works, it works until it doesn't. I'd suggest measuring the bolts. Cleaning the block holes very well (perhaps chasing) and using a torque wrench that will show torque after angle is achieved. Low torque at required angle is a good reason to reject a bolt. I found these numbers somewhere. I'll comment to this with info if I can relocate it.
Is this for reals?? I reuse them on heavy diesel and i did today on my first gas engine "LS"... the guy that gave me the job flipped out and got all mad that you never reuse torque to yield bolts i was bro its ok i do it kn heavy diesel and those heads hold and are way hi in compression...
@@TheDrivewayEngineer and we junkyardist are the dumb ones lol. After being disappointed with a 8k race engine, i pledged to never go back to building a race engine never again. I will continue to use junkyard stuff and thumb my nose at the ones that thinks im crazy.
@@uncagedperformance2096 I've learned the hard way myself, 23k into a 2v 4.6.... got 6k when it was t boned. 4800 bill at the machinist for a 363 302 based short block... That's when I started spraying 250 shots on SBEs lol... I finally learned.
The test in the video you didn't watch before commenting literally shows reused bolts are stronger. The clamping force, is however tight you tighten them
@TheDrivewayEngineer I actually have watched this video before so how much you know. The clamping force is might not exactly champ but the pressure they can handle before the point of failure has. Which could be different for every TTY bolt that's why do you don't reuse them.
@TheDrivewayEngineer here you go go watch an actual person that did how much a bolt can handle.Now tell me that a TTY is strong after it has been stretched ua-cam.com/video/VlfVt1wqr40/v-deo.html
@jacobrecord82 Depending on which part, year & engine, the specs due change. I will use the “KISS” explanation. Ding the torque specs for your job. Start in the middle as if to smash a pancake outward. But first pass is low, in the middle, rotate in a circle until all have first torque sequence. Required on most you have a second level of tightness. Adjust your torque wrench for second round. If like many newer LS engines, require only two times, place tape or spray a liquid little red paint or uses a drawing. Repeat starting at center, go in a circle pattern, stop. If the next part is “Angel” write it down. In or out of a vehicle, place the handle where you can get on pull. Remember, 1/2 of a circle is 180 degrees, so 1/2 of that is 90. No reason to buy an angle meter, just make a sober attempt to achieve a single 90 degree pull to final tightness. If only 70 degrees, then stop short. Remember, this is like pointing on a circle, just in pie cuts. It is not that hard. ASE Master Tech-Retired
I reckon they only came up with TTY to make bolts a consumable item. As long as you don’t over torque the bolts into the plastic zone they should be theoretically infinitely reusable (within reason of course) if they are torqued using a standard torque number. Making the bolts TTY means you can’t reuse the bolts and get the same clamping force using the same TTY tightening procedure (ie: tighten to 20nm then 40nm, turn 45 degrees, stamp your feet twice and look towards the full moon!) which it entirely their plan! By only providing a TTY system they try and force you to buy new bolts but applying some logic to the issue I would say that (me not being a mechanical engineer btw) I would use the torque wrench the work out what the old bolts are torqued down to before removing them and then tighten them back down to that torque setting on reassembly.
I wish this was a current video. But I'll comment anyway. I got a 4 banger domestic car, not a nitro-funny car. You just helped me save $100. Im thinking of your happiness while I drink my next cold one
I actually just went around with someone again about bolts on their stupid TDI lol. Vast difference between I spent money because it makes me feel good and I spent money because it was necessary
I have always reused the used head bolts and main bolts unless new ones are supplied or customer stipulates. I use them for my own engines as well as I’ve always suspected that the used bolts would harden up due to many heat cycles imposed on them through out an engines life. Thank you for this video and keep up the great work.
Aha, Matt from Sloppy always questions the status quo and wants proof..well there it is. Nice work. Now I have a crate load of of used bolts I’m going to sell😂
I once saw a comparison of assembly lubes for head bolts & that effected the torque reading causing wrong numbers. Would you care to comment on the effect of lube in the bolt torquing process?
To put it simply, what you're trying to achieve when tightening a bolt, is a certain amount of stretch in the bolt. The bolt will try to shrink back down to it's original size, and that's what provides the clamping force, the head of the bolt and the nut trying to draw back together. When you torque something, there's tables that say, at this much torque, you get this much stretch, therefore this much clamping force. So that's how an engineer sets a torque spec, just column a, row 3 on a table equals x stretch. There are variables though, no lube, straight 30w oil, or like, moly lube all provide different amounts of friction. So then the torque table goes out the window, because with no lube, vs moly, the moly is going to give more stretch at the same torque because of less friction. ARP provides a ARP lube spec, or a 30w spec because of this. However, it's all really mental masturbation, none of us are Jack Roush, and to the guy in his driveway, regular oil and the recommended torque spec is perfectly fine.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer When you are torquing a head 'bolt', you are turning it at the same time you are increasing the load on it. You are twisting the entire length of the bolt. Lube reduces the force required to over come the friction of the thread on thread action and the area under the bolt head, and is important for reaching the clamp load an engineer specifies it for. Dry torque vs wet torque is not mental masturbation, hence the call out.
@@hal2655 So you've repeated the same thing I already said lol.... I didn't say dry torque vs any other spec is mental masturbation, I said use oil and follow the recomended spec. Not get off into ARP's super secret squirell lube and alternative spec nonsense.
Good to know ,I would bet GM and Ford ect. buy pretty good bolts as they don't want warranty returns. When buying new bolts who knows what Quality they are.
There are also hundreds of thousands of people who believe the earth is flat. My time is worth more than a few dollars for new fasteners, reusing TTY fasteners makes zero sense.
Did you see that ls vs coyote and they blew the head off at like 1800 hp or something im pretty sure that was stock head bolts but i guess thats when you go to bigger head studs
The stockers can be reused ,I wouldnt stretch them again with the tty process as the new bolts require. Just 65ft lbs of torque on a used tty bolt works great
That's good advice.The test didn't tty then stretch,just stretch.I think it's understood that these bolts still seem very strong after removal.I think that's why people are tempted to reuse them.I have done your method and just ft.lbs. torqued and it works(BMW engine).On my buddies f150 Romeo engine;i put new head bolts,but,on the rods and mains,i used a punch and marked all the old locations.I put new bearings and tightened to the punch mark.Punch block,punch bolt,align punch marks.Just keep the same bolt in original location.He has around 60,000 miles on it right now.I'm sure i could have done the same on the head bolts or just torque to 75-85 ft.lbs..On the Romeo engine i read you can reuse the rod and main bolts but i wanted to be on the safe side.The head bolts i read that they should be replaced.I wish i would have attempted it with just the torque on the head bolts.
I would like to know how the ARP bolts would test. If someone is guna buy something I think the ARP bolts are a good option. A shop in town uses then on like ever LS build they do under 1000ish. I've used them in the past but can't say that stock stuff wouldn't have also worked in those applications
They test better I'm sure, they have a much higher tensile strength and can provide much more clamping... Stock stuff isn't a failure point though, so beefing it up is money wasted.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer I would hope and assume they would test better.. just would be cool to know. Again, like I said if someome is going to buy something I think the ARP bolts are a good option.. some people are going to replace the bolts regardless, even with at least new stock ones. For most people's builds they definately don't need the studs so mine as well save the money and buy the bolts.
Further more I love the guys that spend all that dam money on crap they don’t need and there hobby doesn’t get finished it’s just a motor sitting in the garage because they ran outta money for the rest of the build
i love the guys that walmart their stuff together , and think they are ballers ...they dont win car shows , dont win races . but they got their money to buy their beer . you stay cool guys
Take it how y'all want to. But back when I replaced and relocated the sub frames in my 05 GTO I did extensive research on tty bolts. And after lots of reading and forum searching, the best I could get from a couple of claimed 'gm engineers' on the LS1 GTO forum; was tty is more about the factory torquing process than particulars to the bolt. And YES they can be reused. I ended up replacing mine with standard metric equivalency grade 8 bolts (accident necessitated subframe work) because the factory ones were stupidly priced.
I have a feeling that the twisting force has an effect on used bolts, also @bdd1469 makes a good point. I guess if you can get the heads bolted down with enough clamping pressure to seal them to the block, and have not broken any of them it's worth it.
The reason the used bolts have higher numbers is because they have been stretched and NOT returned to their original length or elasticity. The reason a stud is preferred is they save the threads in the block from being destroyed from multiple torquings of headbolts on an engine that will be freshened up often. They also offer a more consistent clamping load across the head. The thing you havn't considered is how many times is that paper clip ( 200, 000 mile head bolt) going to bend (stretch), at every start up and flooging, before it decides it doesn't feel like working that day. $45 doesn't even cover a half hr of labor at my shop, I can't imagine risking the huge amount of time and parts involved over a failed bolt to save 1000th of a penny for every mile.......
Pretty cool you make $90 an hour. Some of us are poor. I couldn’t imagine spending money on something I already have. The fact is people have reused tty bolts with a very high success rate. I know I have and never had a failure. From Land Rover to Subaru, Chevrolet. That being said if I was charging for my work and running a shop I’d charge the customer an extra $45.
@@matthemberry I wasn't saying I make $90 an hr....Any shop in my area charges $80-$125 an hr for labor depending on the size and if it is a dealer. I'm glad you've had good luck, I'm not one to risk my customers car or my time over $45. I don't have much money , but I do put arp studs and bolts in my motors to protect the parts that are actually expensive.
If a used bolt will fail without warning so would a new one, which is also used the instant you tighten it... So from the start your entire premise is invalid. I'm not advocating people do this to unsuspecting customers, and I'm not sure why so many of these discussions take that turn. I do not advocate being dishonest with other peoples property. I merely am presenting evidence for people to make informed decisions with their own property.
Excellent video , I'm not surprised by the results, used bolts will always stretch less because obviously they've already been stretched some and opposite with new bolts. It isnt a real comparison with the studs versus bolts because of how and where loads are applied . It was cool too see the cheap studs against the go to arp studs . Again not surprised with the results there . Keep in mind studs are designed to be reused . I see the point of this video and your previous regardless as to how I feel about all the info . I will say thou yes arp is pricey but when you spend thousands on an engine I'd prefer to not have reused bolts and wonder..."shit I hope this bitch stays together "as I'm flogging it down the track or some high rev burnout . Cheers
But that's also the point with the LS engines in general, that you can buy a 4.8/5.3 for $400, so spending nearly that on a set of ARP head studs (when these engines can reliably hold 700 crank hp with used head bolts) seems silly, unless you're going for 1500 hp, which 99% of people are definitely not.
First off.......Thank YOU....I foudn your channel about a month ago and have been watching alot of your videos. Being a car guy that owned his own performance shop; I was the type to always get the best and run the best parts etc. But now that Im almost at retirement and have lived a few decades since having my own shop. I have become very frugal and now money to me is to tight-wadded and not spent on anything but necessities. I now Re-Use, Re-Cycle, and Re-Purpose everything that I come across. I am about to do an LS swap into an 4x4 OffRoad RV that I am designing and fabricating from the ground up. After finding your channel I am now in heaven with all the Great and Awesome Frugal information that you are laying on me. The LS series of engines is such an awesomely engineered mechanical device. Where old skool push-rof single cam; is better than new skool dual OHC setups. The simplicity is just insanely awesome. Such as with life also. we all could learn much from looking back to what the old timers ran in their hotrods and seeing if that might also work for us in today's hectic fast paced cruel world. Again Many THANKS for laying all this frugal-ness upon me. Not many channels go this route, you should do very well !!!!!!
Yeah, the old hot rodders would run a ball hone through an engine, maybe put rings on it and send it lol. Manufacturing processes have improved greatly, materials have improved greatly, and probably most importantly, any modern engine is fuel injected and overdriven. They idle down the highway at a perfect AFR for the most part, it's really not surprising they don't wear.
Thank you for putting honest information out there for guys who actually have fucking bills to pay and are just starting out everyone don’t have money to burn and throw away
Fucking preach!!!!!!! I absolutely hate MFS who live with thier parents being handed 10k a month by daddy and make videos about how thier Lamborghini heads only have the top quality stuff and everything else is pointless.
What I wonder is that if you're still angle torquing the used bolts with the initial 22ftlbs, you're still going to elongate/yield the stock bolts again and they will likely be fine a few times since they hold the same force while yielding for a little bit. But, I'm guessing after a couple uses it will run out of yield and get closer to potential failure. I am still curious as to why the max load on the used bolts are superior. Heat cycles after the stretching almost forges the new grain? Who knows.
Sounds like a different problem.Cheap gaskets,threads pulled out of block,cracked heads.He didn't say new heads bolts weren't good.He said they would also get stronger after using one time.
I have no doubt that a reused bolt will have a higher clamping force. The first tightening work hardened the bolt, which increased the yield strength. Tightening the bolts to the same spec the second time will therefore result in an even GREATER clamping force. The problem here is that work hardening also increases brittleness. By reusing TTY bolts, you increase the risk that a bolt will snap during tightening, which will put you in a world of hurt. This is particularly true if you decide to reuse the same bolt multiple times. The risk of even ONE snapped bolt just isn’t worth the relatively small cost of a set of new bolts, both in terms of monetary cost and stress. At least for me.
I'm building a 4.3 v6 and, considering the typhoons and syclones used that engine under boost, I feel a lot better about building a roughly 300hp naturally aspirated 4.3
Studs may allow the maximum thread engagement in the block,very important especially in aluminum.Bolts, if stretched may bottom before achieving the desired clamp load. One must be careful when pushing the limit. I guess it depends how far you want to go and what reliability you need. Thanks for the post.
Now that's DYI information I can use! This TTY bolt stuff was a big mystery until now. I personally will splurge and go ARP head bolts and reuse them at least once if it comes to that. My 99 l31 2500 gvan 350 had one strange bolt problem. The light weight intake manifold bolts, and 5 of the 12 exhaust manifold bolts, heads just popped off, replaced with ARP intake bolts and old Grade 8 bolts, problem solved. This info lets me know where I am at with stock thru aftermarket, thanks.
Thank you for taking the time to film the work the other guy did. This is what ASTM would do to test or certify a product. Yes, the alloy in the bolt / stud means something to the end results, but the overall thinking of engineering is driven by marketing. No more grease zerks on factory suspension or steering components either. Look, aluminum expands and contracts in all directions 2:1. when bolted to iron or steel. So multilayer gaskets allow for some movement but imports have done this for decades. While at room temp, break 1 head bolt at a time, then re-torque it every 30k. LS exhaust bolts always break at the end so elongate the hole in the manifold / header, place a flat washer over it and it will never break again. It is not rocket science it is a bolt. Sure, grade 8 is stronger but things are not that complicated in basic engine fasteners. 35+ years an ASE Master Tech Retired Great job to everyone envolved!
Thanks for pointing this test out that Sloppy Mechanics did so unless you going for the extreme boost it looks like it is best to save some cash and reuse stock head bolts. This is another reason that LS engines are the best bang for the buck.
Doug Mullen people will take you to court to prove that u can’t reuse those studs. Even if you have to remove new studs immediately people recommend not using them. I must say I’m still scared to find out. Lol.
Only reason I see to use studs over bolts is if you’re frequently disassembling your engine. I’m talking about disassembling it every other week or more for maintenance since continuous threading and torquing may damage the threads of the mating part where studs stay on the block. And the degradation of the both since they not only experience tension force but also twisting where as the studs only experience tension force. Studs are just impractical for regular performance engines.
I was waiting for someone to question why the old bolts held more force. Could be that the new tty bolts weren't from the same manufacturer or the same batch of bolts. Also could be that the used tty bolts experienced some strain hardening. We need materials engineers and metallurgist to take a look at these.
ive got an 03 6.0 powerstroke 200k miles everybody knows how thier bolts stretch, well i bought it few years ago needed new head so i bought a new pair plus arp studs and gaskets before i did install i went to vegas while gone my brother stole on of my heads cause his 6.0 took a shit, so i got pissed and decided to fix just n flip mine threw one head on reused bolts gasket with copper spray, over 50k later with a hot tune truck still runs tits lol
@@TheDrivewayEngineer yeah i screwed myself when did a china choo choo ls6 for my 99 camaro i got the ls6 next to nothing shoulda left alone, sold it and the ls1 went iron instead i waisted ton of time and money on arp rings gaskets lol
I guess the only time I would not reuse the bolts is when you buy a used vehicle and rebuild. Cause there’s probably a chance this could be the 3rd time around.. maybe there is a test on the 3rd use?
I just Reused my torque to yield on my 2.3 L Ford Lima , I cleaned & bristle brush the Blind holes lub the bolt with high pressure chassis grease. Use the big Snap On breaker bar torque the shit out of them , reminded me of piano string's ! What a great engine, The original boost engine!
wouldn't the use bolts have less elongation because they are ALREADY elongated? or is that 5% measure against a NEW untouched bolt? or was it a combined 12% over a fresh bolt
Keep up the good work bro, i was an engineer for Delphi for till 08 when they filed bankruptcy....i used to have little "WTF" discussions with the main choads bout shit like this on the reg! I love letting these little "secrets" out
Also. Doesn't ARP pull the stretch out of the bolt/stud, heat treat and box them? That's what I'm to understand. But I'm no engineer either. Thanks again.
Not exactly. They heat treat the raw material, then do all their operations. Heat treat only goes so deep into the material, unless they specifically go through the center. They roll the threads, which is stronger because it smashed the material in instead of removing it like a cutting die would. Mostly the are stonger because the base material has a higher modulus of elasticity, which is the point where it will stretch and not return. The force required to do that directly correlates to clamping load. SO basically, since you can crank them down harder without them failing, they clamp tighter.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer thank you for all you do brother, you have been a huge help to me and to so many. This is my first LS, and unfortunately I am starting with an LQ4 that has broken pistons so............ I get to bore it and put in new pistons. This is out of a 2001 Suburban 2500 complete, I have everything like you suggest, the entire vehicle which is all stock. This generation of LQ4 also has the weaker rods so I snatched a set of dimple rods for 150.00 - since I am hanging new rods and pistons should I have the assembly balanced??? I am using 862 heads and ss2 cam, went with 36lb injectors in stock truck intake manifold, shorty headers. I am building a single seat rock buggy on 43" tires with a turbo 400 w/2500 stall.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer i thought about doing that but theres debris(hard oil deposits?) in between the layers im worried about causing a bad seal, how are you cleaning/prepping the old gaskets? maybe do a video on reusing MLS gaskets? 😉
What do the subscriber's on this channel think about reusing the rod bolts what information I do find is kinda like the reusing the head bolts this is a 2010 5.3 engine I'm building with forced air I'm going to say it'll run around 9-13 lbs of boost nothing to crazy
If I was doing a budget LS rebuild use old bolts no problem, if I'm spendinig thousands on new rotating assembly for max reliabilaty at max performance a few hundred dollars on new bolts is a no brainer.
The Driveway Engineer, after reading all the comments i still haven't figured out one thing, when reusing the bolts, should i just torque them to oem spec without the degrees or torque them to oem spec with the degrees?
Nice video. Ok, back in the day of school LeaRnIgs, loL, I was taught how to build aircraft piston driven and jet engines. Failure was not an option here. So, proper procedure, which you will find interesting, in replacing the important bolts. For example, jug bolts, main case half bolts, compressor section case bolts, and so on. To replace one of these bolts due to failure by to much stretch, or breakage. Yes, you measure the length of the bolt and given specs from the manufacture, anyways not the point. When prepping the new bolts, Yes, there is a prep procedure, you install the bolt and lube torque the bolt or dry torque the bolt, which depends on manufacture procedure and loosen the bolt, doing this 2 to 3 times before finally torqueing the bolt to specs for the install. Now compare this to what everybody is ranting about on those head bolts, Kinda funny, LOL. People at GM grabs a fresh new unused head bolt and torque them in the engine. Come on, that bolt has at least 3 or 4 more times of loosening and retorqueing left in it's life before it is even considered bad. Do a test of these bolts actually failing. Seeing how many times it take to torque and loosen the bolt for it to even be considered bad.
Part of the problem is people don't clean the holes out thoroughly. Combine that with the angle torque method GM recommends, and you get clueless people blindly reefing on bolts because the instructions said so, and you get both new and reused failures. Whenever someone posts a failure, and I can see the bolt up close, it winds up being an axial failure, from over torque, probably from dirty bolt holes
Thanks for all the foot work bro. Super informative. My 240,000 mile 5.3 has never been apart. I'll be reusing mine, and probably the rest of the bolts that I removed except for...those damn exhaust manifold bolts🤣🤣🤣 3 were broke off, like everyone else's 🤣🤣🤣
I went with Dorman stud kit meant for a Mustang, 10.8 and nice locking nut. gotta get 2 kits, but super cheap and always handy to have M8-1.25 stuff around.
Can you make a video on drivelines? I have a 4l80e for my 62 Nova with a 65 Nova rear 8.2. Junk yard drive line? How to know what yolk and all that. Thank you for your consideration
I know I'm a year late on this but what would you torque a used head bolt to 5.3 vortec what I was able to find online was 22 ftlbs then 90 degrees then 70. Is it okay to follow same torque procedure with used head bolts
Just found your channel Im loving your content so far but ur audio isn't in the right ear I think u might be able to just copy the audio track other wise ur vids are great
@@tommyriffe9115 I went into the raw video before I uploaded it and figured it out. When I do screen captures like this I use an audio recorder, and it was only recording on one channel by default I guess. I trusted the stupid thing lol. It's fixed now, but I can't do anything about the stuff already uploaded.
I bet it has to do with the heat cycles and relieving stresses built up in the metal from the manufacturing process. BMW using to only use 100K mile plus engine blocks they would buy back from customer cars to build their F1 Megatron engines. They said they were stronger because the metal fibers had naturally aligned through the thousands of heat cycles.
Someone needs to do a test of studs vs bolts. I don't buy into the whole studs are better argument. Would for once like an apples to apples comparison (not Used OEM bolts vs New ARP studs) such as NEW hardware store 12.9 studs vs new hardware store 12.9 bolts.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer There's all sorts of monetized channels that would take this and run. I'm not talking about guys like you that just copy other peoples old content.
what is recomended for manifold bolts taking into consideration i have a broken one on each manifold already? i managed to weld a nut to one with threads showing and it came out easily so now im looking for extractor set to remove other one. so i dont imagine i can buy a pair of replacement bolts so should i get stock replacement set or ARP set?
This doesn’t tell the full story. One the numbers show the studs both stretched less and if They have less elongation it’s because they have already been TTY once which stretched them to their maximum engineered length I bet if you measured the starting length they were stretched compared to new. You cannot reuse TTY bolts trust me I’ve seen deadly failures in construction and my time in the military because of it. Once they have been TTY they get slightly longer every time you reuse it they will until you get a gap because the bolt is longer bit by bit.
It also blatantly showed much less elongation on the studs in that last spread sheet. Say what you will but I know from the diesel world every notorious head gasket blowing truck can be fixed for good by studs. Because the physical holding force is in two points on a stud instead of one like a bolt. They won’t stretch the same way as a bolt because there is holding force applied on both end instead of one point.
And yet they're in my engine running now. They absolutely elongate. It absolutely doesn't matter because there's plenty of room at the bottom of the head bolt hole.
Man i love your attitude
I asked an old engine builder once "when should I replace my head bolts" he said "when they break"...
grampa never crammed 20lbs of boost into his small block...
@@illduitmyself doesnt change the answer
Grumpy Jenkins of SBC fame said OE SBC head bolts can be reused for ever [or til threads look sketchy]
Grandpa never used TTY bolts either. Or made 1000hp. Lol
You can use whatever you want. As long as your ok with saving the money knowing is could cost you time
The problem here is that, when they break, you often have a bigger problem than simply buying new bolts.
I like it dude. Feels so dumb to throw away what seems like perfectly good bolts. Also, any experienced mechanic will berate you for it. But then again the same oldschool mechanic thinks torquing bolts with angles seems stupid and nonsensical so take from it what you will, haha.
I felt so stupid spending more than 100 dollars on BMW crankshaft bolts from reassembling the timing chain multiple times. Throwing those big, heavy, barely used bolts in the garbage.
Here's my personal rule. Reuse TTY bolts at least once is fine. When doing the angle part go a little easy on it. So if the spec says 180 degrees maybe do 150. Reason being exactly what this video showed which is that the reused bolt will overtorque with the same procedure so if you reduce the angle slightly you should be in the right spot.
Hey, I replaced headbolts and the manual says
*torque to 75nm
*loosed all bolts
*torque to 20nm
*90°
*90°
I only did step one, torque 75nm only found out later i had to do all steps.
I now have driven 160 miles without problems. Should I complete the steps, loosen them and then 20nm and the steps, or just leave it?
I'm in a mental split here, sir
My old timer neighbour says he never did the steps, he says to just leave them. What do you say?
If it ain't broke... I'd roll with it
I loosened them and retighten them one by one. But my torquewrench starts at 40nm. So I did 40nm and 2* 90° somewhat, maybe a little less.
Maybe they are too tight now I don't know, I checked every bolt at 75nm and it clicked right away.
I drove 85km
You think it will explode and leak again? You have some faith?
Its a little 1994 lancer 1.6 four banger
missing a big difference in a stud vs bolt. this test didnt show at what TQ on the wrench = what result at the fastener , how consistent , etc... i prefer studs for the constancy and it's how it should be done if OEM wasn't cheap. and if anyone has an aluminum block.... i cant imagine not using studs.
Awesome video
Head bolts or studs are not going to see anywhere near the numbers this guy was putting them through. All of them will work on a max 70-90lb torque.
I'm gunna recycle mine!
Did you seriously make a video of a power point slide deck?
I've made several, and got paid, thanks for watching!
At lot of unknown factors reusing these TTY bolts. The tests referenced were probably not well documented as to the life cycle of the bolts used and the torque specs/methods used during each install. Was the block and head steel or aluminum? What was the max temp ever reached on the engine(s)?
If it's a junkyarder in a weekend hoopty, it might be different than if it's your reliable work truck used for hauling.
I wouldn't reuse them blindly.
This is really interesting info. I noticed auto parts people do not try to sell the TTY bolts for bearing assemblies. Now I just found out that the late Chevy I have needs TTY and of course I would need a angle gauge just to install. Just crazy, yet I suppose it has its purpose (connecting dissimilar metals). Would TTY be an improvement over standard, who knows? Thanks for posting!
Buy cheap = Buy Twice And.. IF truly Dim ? Repeatedly.
Wise advice.
In all things in life, buy the most expensive option, period, no other considerations. Nothing less than the most expensive thing will ever ever work.
Most expensive house, car, dog, lawnmower.
Blindly spend the most, it's the only way to achieve a goal
I bought a set of tty felpro bolts for my 4.6 ford engine. But after this video im thinking of using the old ones but do i have to use same torquing and angle steps !!!
Just torque them like normal, make sure the holes are clean
Link no more workie.
Was that tensile testing done on the threads? Where is the bolt yielding? If it works, it works until it doesn't.
I'd suggest measuring the bolts. Cleaning the block holes very well (perhaps chasing) and using a torque wrench that will show torque after angle is achieved. Low torque at required angle is a good reason to reject a bolt.
I found these numbers somewhere. I'll comment to this with info if I can relocate it.
Couldn't find it again. I'll continue looking, but not confident.
Shit. Bought new ones from gm for $60. Taking them bitches back!!!
They can't deny evidence too bad most of these guys spent their money
So what is it saying ? What are the best ones to use?
The old tty bolts ?
The ones you got for free with your engine
I've been reusing head bolts for 30 years and never had a failure. Thanks for sharing scientific proof though.
Is this for reals?? I reuse them on heavy diesel and i did today on my first gas engine "LS"... the guy that gave me the job flipped out and got all mad that you never reuse torque to yield bolts i was bro its ok i do it kn heavy diesel and those heads hold and are way hi in compression...
@@jamesbond7380 how do u know if they are still ok?
Because they're in a running engine
@@TheDrivewayEngineer i mean when looking at them, is there a way to know
@@foxreviews2292 how do you know brand new ones are good by looking at them?
I re-use headgaskets and head bolts lol. This is some great info, and proves that you dont need $300 head studs.
Too bad people don't listen lol.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer and we junkyardist are the dumb ones lol. After being disappointed with a 8k race engine, i pledged to never go back to building a race engine never again. I will continue to use junkyard stuff and thumb my nose at the ones that thinks im crazy.
@@uncagedperformance2096 I've learned the hard way myself, 23k into a 2v 4.6.... got 6k when it was t boned.
4800 bill at the machinist for a 363 302 based short block... That's when I started spraying 250 shots on SBEs lol... I finally learned.
Please don't reuse tty bolts it is not worth it they will never have the same clamping force after they have been used
The test in the video you didn't watch before commenting literally shows reused bolts are stronger.
The clamping force, is however tight you tighten them
@TheDrivewayEngineer I actually have watched this video before so how much you know. The clamping force is might not exactly champ but the pressure they can handle before the point of failure has. Which could be different for every TTY bolt that's why do you don't reuse them.
@TheDrivewayEngineer here you go go watch an actual person that did how much a bolt can handle.Now tell me that a TTY is strong after it has been stretched ua-cam.com/video/VlfVt1wqr40/v-deo.html
Very good.
Be interesting to see tests of rod and main bolts also...
I’ve reused torque to yield connecting rod bolts on a John Deere 6068 and it was fine . 12 thousand hours later .
You should do a video on torquing the head bolts. I was always confused with torque to yield bolts.
@jacobrecord82 Depending on which part, year & engine, the specs due change. I will use the “KISS” explanation. Ding the torque specs for your job. Start in the middle as if to smash a pancake outward. But first pass is low, in the middle, rotate in a circle until all have first torque sequence. Required on most you have a second level of tightness. Adjust your torque wrench for second round. If like many newer LS engines, require only two times, place tape or spray a liquid little red paint or uses a drawing. Repeat starting at center, go in a circle pattern, stop. If the next part is “Angel” write it down. In or out of a vehicle, place the handle where you can get on pull. Remember, 1/2 of a circle is 180 degrees, so 1/2 of that is 90. No reason to buy an angle meter, just make a sober attempt to achieve a single 90 degree pull to final tightness. If only 70 degrees, then stop short. Remember, this is like pointing on a circle, just in pie cuts. It is not that hard.
ASE Master Tech-Retired
@@deankay4434 anyway to simplify that?
I reckon they only came up with TTY to make bolts a consumable item. As long as you don’t over torque the bolts into the plastic zone they should be theoretically infinitely reusable (within reason of course) if they are torqued using a standard torque number.
Making the bolts TTY means you can’t reuse the bolts and get the same clamping force using the same TTY tightening procedure (ie: tighten to 20nm then 40nm, turn 45 degrees, stamp your feet twice and look towards the full moon!) which it entirely their plan!
By only providing a TTY system they try and force you to buy new bolts but applying some logic to the issue I would say that (me not being a mechanical engineer btw) I would use the torque wrench the work out what the old bolts are torqued down to before removing them and then tighten them back down to that torque setting on reassembly.
This ^
I wish this was a current video. But I'll comment anyway. I got a 4 banger domestic car, not a nitro-funny car. You just helped me save $100. Im thinking of your happiness while I drink my next cold one
I actually just went around with someone again about bolts on their stupid TDI lol.
Vast difference between I spent money because it makes me feel good and I spent money because it was necessary
Videos like this have given me the confidence to go out and give it a try for cheap instead of always thinking what if.
I have always reused the used head bolts and main bolts unless new ones are supplied or customer stipulates. I use them for my own engines as well as I’ve always suspected that the used bolts would harden up due to many heat cycles imposed on them through out an engines life. Thank you for this video and keep up the great work.
What about rod bolts? I'm contemplating on re-using mine
son of a, I just threw my L94 bolts away a month ago
I mean, they're not all the money in the world lol.
But every little bit helps.
Aha, Matt from Sloppy always questions the status quo and wants proof..well there it is. Nice work. Now I have a crate load of of used bolts I’m going to sell😂
I once saw a comparison of assembly lubes for head bolts & that effected the torque reading causing wrong numbers.
Would you care to comment on the effect of lube in the bolt torquing process?
To put it simply, what you're trying to achieve when tightening a bolt, is a certain amount of stretch in the bolt.
The bolt will try to shrink back down to it's original size, and that's what provides the clamping force, the head of the bolt and the nut trying to draw back together.
When you torque something, there's tables that say, at this much torque, you get this much stretch, therefore this much clamping force.
So that's how an engineer sets a torque spec, just column a, row 3 on a table equals x stretch.
There are variables though, no lube, straight 30w oil, or like, moly lube all provide different amounts of friction. So then the torque table goes out the window, because with no lube, vs moly, the moly is going to give more stretch at the same torque because of less friction.
ARP provides a ARP lube spec, or a 30w spec because of this.
However, it's all really mental masturbation, none of us are Jack Roush, and to the guy in his driveway, regular oil and the recommended torque spec is perfectly fine.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer When you are torquing a head 'bolt', you are turning it at the same time you are increasing the load on it. You are twisting the entire length of the bolt. Lube reduces the force required to over come the friction of the thread on thread action and the area under the bolt head, and is important for reaching the clamp load an engineer specifies it for. Dry torque vs wet torque is not mental masturbation, hence the call out.
@@hal2655 So you've repeated the same thing I already said lol....
I didn't say dry torque vs any other spec is mental masturbation, I said use oil and follow the recomended spec. Not get off into ARP's super secret squirell lube and alternative spec nonsense.
I can't imagine a gas engine head bolt torqued beyond 120 ft. Lbs. Max. As long as it doesn't stretch you're good.
Good to know ,I would bet GM and Ford ect. buy pretty good bolts as they don't want warranty returns. When buying new bolts who knows what Quality they are.
There are also hundreds of thousands of people who believe the earth is flat. My time is worth more than a few dollars for new fasteners, reusing TTY fasteners makes zero sense.
I’m still not looking at my cam bearings🤣
I have seen them Flake and cause low oil pressure..
Ya, great info, good video. I like how you give your sources credit, and let the viewer decide. Take care bro.
Have to give credit where it's due, I'm just not that type of guy, thanks for watchiing!
Did you see that ls vs coyote and they blew the head off at like 1800 hp or something im pretty sure that was stock head bolts but i guess thats when you go to bigger head studs
Seems like a solid reason to spend the money lol
The stockers can be reused ,I wouldnt stretch them again with the tty process as the new bolts require. Just 65ft lbs of torque on a used tty bolt works great
That's good advice.The test didn't tty then stretch,just stretch.I think it's understood that these bolts still seem very strong after removal.I think that's why people are tempted to reuse them.I have done your method and just ft.lbs. torqued and it works(BMW engine).On my buddies f150 Romeo engine;i put new head bolts,but,on the rods and mains,i used a punch and marked all the old locations.I put new bearings and tightened to the punch mark.Punch block,punch bolt,align punch marks.Just keep the same bolt in original location.He has around 60,000 miles on it right now.I'm sure i could have done the same on the head bolts or just torque to 75-85 ft.lbs..On the Romeo engine i read you can reuse the rod and main bolts but i wanted to be on the safe side.The head bolts i read that they should be replaced.I wish i would have attempted it with just the torque on the head bolts.
i use china bolts baby.
I just compromised; I went with the ARP head bolts instead of the head studs. Saved some money and can re-use the bolts. Best of Both Worlds.
The best solution is to keep your money lol
I would like to know how the ARP bolts would test. If someone is guna buy something I think the ARP bolts are a good option. A shop in town uses then on like ever LS build they do under 1000ish. I've used them in the past but can't say that stock stuff wouldn't have also worked in those applications
They test better I'm sure, they have a much higher tensile strength and can provide much more clamping...
Stock stuff isn't a failure point though, so beefing it up is money wasted.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer I would hope and assume they would test better.. just would be cool to know. Again, like I said if someome is going to buy something I think the ARP bolts are a good option.. some people are going to replace the bolts regardless, even with at least new stock ones. For most people's builds they definately don't need the studs so mine as well save the money and buy the bolts.
Further more I love the guys that spend all that dam money on crap they don’t need and there hobby doesn’t get finished it’s just a motor sitting in the garage because they ran outta money for the rest of the build
See it all the time, then they're trying to sell it for 1/2 the cost lol.
i love the guys that walmart their stuff together , and think they are ballers ...they dont win car shows , dont win races . but they got their money to buy their beer . you stay cool guys
Take it how y'all want to. But back when I replaced and relocated the sub frames in my 05 GTO I did extensive research on tty bolts. And after lots of reading and forum searching, the best I could get from a couple of claimed 'gm engineers' on the LS1 GTO forum; was tty is more about the factory torquing process than particulars to the bolt. And YES they can be reused.
I ended up replacing mine with standard metric equivalency grade 8 bolts (accident necessitated subframe work) because the factory ones were stupidly priced.
I have a feeling that the twisting force has an effect on used bolts, also @bdd1469 makes a good point. I guess if you can get the heads bolted down with enough clamping pressure to seal them to the block, and have not broken any of them it's worth it.
The reason the used bolts have higher numbers is because they have been stretched and NOT returned to their original length or elasticity. The reason a stud is preferred is they save the threads in the block from being destroyed from multiple torquings of headbolts on an engine that will be freshened up often. They also offer a more consistent clamping load across the head. The thing you havn't considered is how many times is that paper clip ( 200, 000 mile head bolt) going to bend (stretch), at every start up and flooging, before it decides it doesn't feel like working that day. $45 doesn't even cover a half hr of labor at my shop, I can't imagine risking the huge amount of time and parts involved over a failed bolt to save 1000th of a penny for every mile.......
Pretty cool you make $90 an hour. Some of us are poor. I couldn’t imagine spending money on something I already have. The fact is people have reused tty bolts with a very high success rate. I know I have and never had a failure. From Land Rover to Subaru, Chevrolet. That being said if I was charging for my work and running a shop I’d charge the customer an extra $45.
@@matthemberry I wasn't saying I make $90 an hr....Any shop in my area charges $80-$125 an hr for labor depending on the size and if it is a dealer. I'm glad you've had good luck, I'm not one to risk my customers car or my time over $45. I don't have much money , but I do put arp studs and bolts in my motors to protect the parts that are actually expensive.
If a used bolt will fail without warning so would a new one, which is also used the instant you tighten it...
So from the start your entire premise is invalid.
I'm not advocating people do this to unsuspecting customers, and I'm not sure why so many of these discussions take that turn. I do not advocate being dishonest with other peoples property. I merely am presenting evidence for people to make informed decisions with their own property.
I think I'll reply anyway, nothing you said there adds up at all, but do tell us oh wise metallurgist wtf you're even going on about 😂
Excellent video , I'm not surprised by the results, used bolts will always stretch less because obviously they've already been stretched some and opposite with new bolts. It isnt a real comparison with the studs versus bolts because of how and where loads are applied . It was cool too see the cheap studs against the go to arp studs . Again not surprised with the results there . Keep in mind studs are designed to be reused . I see the point of this video and your previous regardless as to how I feel about all the info . I will say thou yes arp is pricey but when you spend thousands on an engine I'd prefer to not have reused bolts and wonder..."shit I hope this bitch stays together "as I'm flogging it down the track or some high rev burnout . Cheers
But that's also the point with the LS engines in general, that you can buy a 4.8/5.3 for $400, so spending nearly that on a set of ARP head studs (when these engines can reliably hold 700 crank hp with used head bolts) seems silly, unless you're going for 1500 hp, which 99% of people are definitely not.
First off.......Thank YOU....I foudn your channel about a month ago and have been watching alot of your videos. Being a car guy that owned his own performance shop; I was the type to always get the best and run the best parts etc. But now that Im almost at retirement and have lived a few decades since having my own shop. I have become very frugal and now money to me is to tight-wadded and not spent on anything but necessities. I now Re-Use, Re-Cycle, and Re-Purpose everything that I come across. I am about to do an LS swap into an 4x4 OffRoad RV that I am designing and fabricating from the ground up. After finding your channel I am now in heaven with all the Great and Awesome Frugal information that you are laying on me. The LS series of engines is such an awesomely engineered mechanical device. Where old skool push-rof single cam; is better than new skool dual OHC setups. The simplicity is just insanely awesome. Such as with life also. we all could learn much from looking back to what the old timers ran in their hotrods and seeing if that might also work for us in today's hectic fast paced cruel world. Again Many THANKS for laying all this frugal-ness upon me. Not many channels go this route, you should do very well !!!!!!
Yeah, the old hot rodders would run a ball hone through an engine, maybe put rings on it and send it lol.
Manufacturing processes have improved greatly, materials have improved greatly, and probably most importantly, any modern engine is fuel injected and overdriven. They idle down the highway at a perfect AFR for the most part, it's really not surprising they don't wear.
Thank you for putting honest information out there for guys who actually have fucking bills to pay and are just starting out everyone don’t have money to burn and throw away
True that x 10!
Fucking preach!!!!!!! I absolutely hate MFS who live with thier parents being handed 10k a month by daddy and make videos about how thier Lamborghini heads only have the top quality stuff and everything else is pointless.
What I wonder is that if you're still angle torquing the used bolts with the initial 22ftlbs, you're still going to elongate/yield the stock bolts again and they will likely be fine a few times since they hold the same force while yielding for a little bit. But, I'm guessing after a couple uses it will run out of yield and get closer to potential failure. I am still curious as to why the max load on the used bolts are superior. Heat cycles after the stretching almost forges the new grain? Who knows.
Sounds good to me, I'll reuse mine... thank you
I knew something was going on I have always reused headbolts the one time I didn't the gaskets failed in 3 months 20 plus years turning wrenches.
Sounds like a different problem.Cheap gaskets,threads pulled out of block,cracked heads.He didn't say new heads bolts weren't good.He said they would also get stronger after using one time.
I have no doubt that a reused bolt will have a higher clamping force. The first tightening work hardened the bolt, which increased the yield strength. Tightening the bolts to the same spec the second time will therefore result in an even GREATER clamping force. The problem here is that work hardening also increases brittleness. By reusing TTY bolts, you increase the risk that a bolt will snap during tightening, which will put you in a world of hurt. This is particularly true if you decide to reuse the same bolt multiple times. The risk of even ONE snapped bolt just isn’t worth the relatively small cost of a set of new bolts, both in terms of monetary cost and stress. At least for me.
I'm building a 4.3 v6 and, considering the typhoons and syclones used that engine under boost, I feel a lot better about building a roughly 300hp naturally aspirated 4.3
Studs may allow the maximum thread engagement in the block,very important especially in aluminum.Bolts, if stretched may bottom before achieving the desired clamp load. One must be careful when pushing the limit. I guess it depends how far you want to go and what reliability you need. Thanks for the post.
Steven H Zoll agreed. aluminum block is why I went studs, not for extreme strength 🤷🏻♂️
I always thought you could reuse the head bolts but everyone trying to make money of what you don't need i did not know that for sure thanks
This only for head bolts? What about main cap and rod bolts?
I've been reusing those as well, however the test only covers the head bolts
I saw when Matt highlighted this test. Great work commenting on it, J.R.
Now that's DYI information I can use! This TTY bolt stuff was a big mystery until now. I personally will splurge and go ARP head bolts and reuse them at least once if it comes to that.
My 99 l31 2500 gvan 350 had one strange bolt problem. The light weight intake manifold bolts, and 5 of the 12 exhaust manifold bolts, heads just popped off, replaced with ARP intake bolts and old Grade 8 bolts, problem solved.
This info lets me know where I am at with stock thru aftermarket, thanks.
Quick question .. I'm building a 5.3 and had my heads milled .030 do I need to get shorter pushrods?
Thank you for taking the time to film the work the other guy did. This is what ASTM would do to test or certify a product. Yes, the alloy in the bolt / stud means something to the end results, but the overall thinking of engineering is driven by marketing. No more grease zerks on factory suspension or steering components either.
Look, aluminum expands and contracts in all directions 2:1. when bolted to iron or steel. So multilayer gaskets allow for some movement but imports have done this for decades.
While at room temp, break 1 head bolt at a time, then re-torque it every 30k. LS exhaust bolts always break at the end so elongate the hole in the manifold / header, place a flat washer over it and it will never break again.
It is not rocket science it is a bolt. Sure, grade 8 is stronger but things are not that complicated in basic engine fasteners.
35+ years an ASE Master Tech Retired
Great job to everyone envolved!
Thanks for pointing this test out that Sloppy Mechanics did so unless you going for the extreme boost it looks like it is best to save some cash and reuse stock head bolts. This is another reason that LS engines are the best bang for the buck.
Yeah, advanced manufacturing techniques and tighter tolerancing really make the difference on these.
Doug Mullen people will take you to court to prove that u can’t reuse those studs. Even if you have to remove new studs immediately people recommend not using them. I must say I’m still scared to find out. Lol.
😂😂😂😂 pretty much
Only reason I see to use studs over bolts is if you’re frequently disassembling your engine. I’m talking about disassembling it every other week or more for maintenance since continuous threading and torquing may damage the threads of the mating part where studs stay on the block. And the degradation of the both since they not only experience tension force but also twisting where as the studs only experience tension force. Studs are just impractical for regular performance engines.
Great info.
With constant heat soaking I'm not surprised if they didn't harden a bit
I was waiting for someone to question why the old bolts held more force. Could be that the new tty bolts weren't from the same manufacturer or the same batch of bolts. Also could be that the used tty bolts experienced some strain hardening. We need materials engineers and metallurgist to take a look at these.
ive got an 03 6.0 powerstroke 200k miles everybody knows how thier bolts stretch, well i bought it few years ago needed new head so i bought a new pair plus arp studs and gaskets before i did install i went to vegas while gone my brother stole on of my heads cause his 6.0 took a shit, so i got pissed and decided to fix just n flip mine threw one head on reused bolts gasket with copper spray, over 50k later with a hot tune truck still runs tits lol
😂
Crazy what you can't get accomplished when you stay off the internet and don't know what everyone tells you sometimes lol
@@TheDrivewayEngineer yeah i screwed myself when did a china choo choo ls6 for my 99 camaro i got the ls6 next to nothing shoulda left alone, sold it and the ls1 went iron instead i waisted ton of time and money on arp rings gaskets lol
I guess the only time I would not reuse the bolts is when you buy a used vehicle and rebuild. Cause there’s probably a chance this could be the 3rd time around.. maybe there is a test on the 3rd use?
I just Reused my torque to yield on my 2.3 L Ford Lima , I cleaned & bristle brush the Blind holes lub the bolt with high pressure chassis grease. Use the big Snap On breaker bar torque the shit out of them , reminded me of piano string's ! What a great engine, The original boost engine!
Love all your gr8 CONTENT!! old skool wrenchers, even on New LS 4 EVER!!!
Dammit brotha. ..you should have went live...But awesome video!
No one wants to watch me do math for 10 minutes lol, that's why I cut it out
Dude!!!! Give yourself more credit. Knowledge is power! !!!
WEll I cut it out because 6 or 7 minutes in my wife found a calculator that does it for you :D :D
You're looking at the wrong metrics... Look at clamping force. That's the only thing that matters.
Nice! This is a great money saver
Thanks for bringing this information closer to the "wandering" public. Test results don't lie.
Great info you need to rate those Chinese turbos that everybody says don't make any power
I'm working on getting some storage space and engine dyno time to test some of these things this summer. Need to get the ole budget up first.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer I'll be looking forward to that!!!
wouldn't the use bolts have less elongation because they are ALREADY elongated? or is that 5% measure against a NEW untouched bolt? or was it a combined 12% over a fresh bolt
Keep up the good work bro, i was an engineer for Delphi for till 08 when they filed bankruptcy....i used to have little "WTF" discussions with the main choads bout shit like this on the reg! I love letting these little "secrets" out
Also. Doesn't ARP pull the stretch out of the bolt/stud, heat treat and box them? That's what I'm to understand. But I'm no engineer either. Thanks again.
Not exactly.
They heat treat the raw material, then do all their operations. Heat treat only goes so deep into the material, unless they specifically go through the center.
They roll the threads, which is stronger because it smashed the material in instead of removing it like a cutting die would.
Mostly the are stonger because the base material has a higher modulus of elasticity, which is the point where it will stretch and not return. The force required to do that directly correlates to clamping load. SO basically, since you can crank them down harder without them failing, they clamp tighter.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer just to add to that virtually all bolts and studs have rolled threads, that's not really a specific arp feature.
how about reusing rod bolts?
I reuse them all
@@TheDrivewayEngineer thank you for all you do brother, you have been a huge help to me and to so many. This is my first LS, and unfortunately I am starting with an LQ4 that has broken pistons so............ I get to bore it and put in new pistons. This is out of a 2001 Suburban 2500 complete, I have everything like you suggest, the entire vehicle which is all stock. This generation of LQ4 also has the weaker rods so I snatched a set of dimple rods for 150.00 - since I am hanging new rods and pistons should I have the assembly balanced??? I am using 862 heads and ss2 cam, went with 36lb injectors in stock truck intake manifold, shorty headers. I am building a single seat rock buggy on 43" tires with a turbo 400 w/2500 stall.
If I had to do all that, I'd start with another engine.
You're going to spend more on all this than punting it and starting over.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer probably but I am all in now lol
@@patrickhickman8723 if that's what you chose you are, I'd sell that shit right now and walk
what sealant do i put on my head bolts threads if i reuse them?
LS bolts don't go into water like Gen 1 bolts do, no sealant neeeed
@@TheDrivewayEngineer whats your opinion on reusing MLS gaskets?
I reuse them with some copper spray
@@TheDrivewayEngineer i thought about doing that but theres debris(hard oil deposits?) in between the layers im worried about causing a bad seal, how are you cleaning/prepping the old gaskets? maybe do a video on reusing MLS gaskets? 😉
Spray them, install them, don't think about it, live your best life :D
ua-cam.com/video/fI1jB9yBG4c/v-deo.html
What do the subscriber's on this channel think about reusing the rod bolts what information I do find is kinda like the reusing the head bolts this is a 2010 5.3 engine I'm building with forced air I'm going to say it'll run around 9-13 lbs of boost nothing to crazy
It is the aluminum block with the DoD crap being disabled
Love vids like this, true knowledge not just BS!
I appreciate that!
If I was doing a budget LS rebuild use old bolts no problem, if I'm spendinig thousands on new rotating assembly for max reliabilaty at max performance a few hundred dollars on new bolts is a no brainer.
The Driveway Engineer, after reading all the comments i still haven't figured out one thing, when reusing the bolts, should i just torque them to oem spec without the degrees or torque them to oem spec with the degrees?
It doesn't matter
Nice video. Ok, back in the day of school LeaRnIgs, loL, I was taught how to build aircraft piston driven and jet engines. Failure was not an option here. So, proper procedure, which you will find interesting, in replacing the important bolts. For example, jug bolts, main case half bolts, compressor section case bolts, and so on. To replace one of these bolts due to failure by to much stretch, or breakage. Yes, you measure the length of the bolt and given specs from the manufacture, anyways not the point. When prepping the new bolts, Yes, there is a prep procedure, you install the bolt and lube torque the bolt or dry torque the bolt, which depends on manufacture procedure and loosen the bolt, doing this 2 to 3 times before finally torqueing the bolt to specs for the install. Now compare this to what everybody is ranting about on those head bolts, Kinda funny, LOL. People at GM grabs a fresh new unused head bolt and torque them in the engine. Come on, that bolt has at least 3 or 4 more times of loosening and retorqueing left in it's life before it is even considered bad. Do a test of these bolts actually failing. Seeing how many times it take to torque and loosen the bolt for it to even be considered bad.
Part of the problem is people don't clean the holes out thoroughly.
Combine that with the angle torque method GM recommends, and you get clueless people blindly reefing on bolts because the instructions said so, and you get both new and reused failures.
Whenever someone posts a failure, and I can see the bolt up close, it winds up being an axial failure, from over torque, probably from dirty bolt holes
Thanks for all the foot work bro. Super informative. My 240,000 mile 5.3 has never been apart. I'll be reusing mine, and probably the rest of the bolts that I removed except for...those damn exhaust manifold bolts🤣🤣🤣 3 were broke off, like everyone else's 🤣🤣🤣
The Dorman bolts are like 13 bucks, mine have been holding a turbo up for 2 years now lol
@@TheDrivewayEngineer well then....I should try those. I'm going turbo eventually. Gonna be thumbing through your vids for turbo install tips
I went with Dorman stud kit meant for a Mustang, 10.8 and nice locking nut. gotta get 2 kits, but super cheap and always handy to have M8-1.25 stuff around.
@@jsomething2 gonna look into that too. Thanks bro
Can you make a video on drivelines? I have a 4l80e for my 62 Nova with a 65 Nova rear 8.2. Junk yard drive line? How to know what yolk and all that. Thank you for your consideration
That's a great idea!
Awesomely informative thanks!!
I know I'm a year late on this but what would you torque a used head bolt to 5.3 vortec what I was able to find online was 22 ftlbs then 90 degrees then 70. Is it okay to follow same torque procedure with used head bolts
Yes, that's what I typically do
Just found your channel Im loving your content so far but ur audio isn't in the right ear I think u might be able to just copy the audio track other wise ur vids are great
I'm going have to figure this out, alot of people have complaints about the audio. It sounds fine on my TV so idk what the deal is
@@TheDrivewayEngineer if u can maybe try using headphones, otherwise great stuff keep it up :)
@@tommyriffe9115 I went into the raw video before I uploaded it and figured it out. When I do screen captures like this I use an audio recorder, and it was only recording on one channel by default I guess. I trusted the stupid thing lol. It's fixed now, but I can't do anything about the stuff already uploaded.
@@TheDrivewayEngineersweet, im happy u got it fixed for future videos and I wouldn't worry about the already uploaded stuff either
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Sometimes factory specs just aren't the best for your situation! Lol. I kid.. I kid
Warren Michigan checking in video # 8
I bet it has to do with the heat cycles and relieving stresses built up in the metal from the manufacturing process. BMW using to only use 100K mile plus engine blocks they would buy back from customer cars to build their F1 Megatron engines. They said they were stronger because the metal fibers had naturally aligned through the thousands of heat cycles.
Someone needs to do a test of studs vs bolts. I don't buy into the whole studs are better argument. Would for once like an apples to apples comparison (not Used OEM bolts vs New ARP studs) such as NEW hardware store 12.9 studs vs new hardware store 12.9 bolts.
Labs will run any test you pay them to
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Duh. And some monetized you tubers will for free.
Hold your breath
@@TheDrivewayEngineer There's all sorts of monetized channels that would take this and run. I'm not talking about guys like you that just copy other peoples old content.
@@markgunther2502ua-cam.com/video/VlfVt1wqr40/v-deo.html
Damn there are some salty people in here! I for one will be reusing my bolts. Thanks for the video!
what is recomended for manifold bolts taking into consideration i have a broken one on each manifold already?
i managed to weld a nut to one with threads showing and it came out easily so now im looking for extractor set to remove other one.
so i dont imagine i can buy a pair of replacement bolts so should i get stock replacement set or ARP set?
DOn't use an extractor, keep welding to get them out.
Dorman makes LS manifold bolts for like 13 bucks a set.
Maybe because they were heat cycled in a running engine.
I like the studs because I can torque them without getting out my torque angle gauge. I snapped a main bolt trying to get to 80 degrees.
The torque angle is 90 lol, I feel comfortable I can eyeball them lol
@@TheDrivewayEngineerNo its 80 degrees on my 5.3
80, 90, close enough :D :D
@@TheDrivewayEngineer 220 221 whatever it takes. That's from a movie.
@@marcmo7138 Mr Mom lol
Great Info. dude! keep up the great video's.
so does this mean studs aren't all they have been cracked up to be?
That's been the general consensus below 4 digit power
Curious how 1/2" arp studs woukd compare....
I'm not, since stock bolts have easily held 1500 tire and beyond.
they say the proof is in the pudding this would be said pudding lol
If reusing the used bolts, should the tty be done or just torque to a certain number?
I usually just follow the factory sequence
what was the point of 'torque to yield' then?
To ensure extra force isn't put on the fastener.
Ok then.....I will no longer call them “used bolts”. Substituting the term “pre stretched”.
That's the spirit, it's all in the spin!
This doesn’t tell the full story. One the numbers show the studs both stretched less and if They have less elongation it’s because they have already been TTY once which stretched them to their maximum engineered length I bet if you measured the starting length they were stretched compared to new. You cannot reuse TTY bolts trust me I’ve seen deadly failures in construction and my time in the military because of it. Once they have been TTY they get slightly longer every time you reuse it they will until you get a gap because the bolt is longer bit by bit.
It also blatantly showed much less elongation on the studs in that last spread sheet. Say what you will but I know from the diesel world every notorious head gasket blowing truck can be fixed for good by studs. Because the physical holding force is in two points on a stud instead of one like a bolt. They won’t stretch the same way as a bolt because there is holding force applied on both end instead of one point.
And yet they're in my engine running now.
They absolutely elongate.
It absolutely doesn't matter because there's plenty of room at the bottom of the head bolt hole.
You can measure a TTY bolt install it properly then remove it measure again and it stays slightly stretched.
Yep, they stretch.
Yep, it doesn't matter if they don't bottom out.