The Belts upside down mate! The poncho roll should attach to the 2 little D rings that you have in the middle of the kidney pouches. You've got them attached to the kidney pouches.
this one was off the shelf with tape still in place so I didn't think to question the previous soldiers setup! - should of noticed that though cripes! hahaha cheers
That Entrenching tool attachment on the yoke used to dig right into the spine. Most of us cut them off for that reason and carried the shovel or pick handle in the poncho roll.
@@armyand_OutdoorsHe’s right mate. I used this stuff from 1978 - 1990. I don’t think this kit wasn’t put together by someone who actually used it. The two central clips on the poncho roll clip onto the D rings on the belt. Which should be on the lower edge of the belt. Where they’re currently clipped onto are just toggles to pull the retaining fasteners of the kidney pouches to get them off quick. They were shit. Would fall off in a light breeze or gentle stroll. So we taped them up. I got the green PLCE in 1990 or 91 in N. Ireland and it was so much better. Especially when in wet conditions and with a nice big bergan.
@@siwc yeh its interesting getting hands on with the stuff for the first time-the pouch/belt system at a glance seems self intuitive enough, until you look at the kidney pouches and the roll. The roll in particular is a interesting addition; every other web system I can think of would just relegate poncho storage to some extra straps (like on a butt pack). Those attachments too, are 'interesting' especially for the shovel & pick - but as a piece of history from the late 50's, I cannot judge it too harshly for its time it was whipped up.
Back when I was issued this, you wore the belt upside down and attached the bum roll to the top of the pouches rather than underneath. This made it better when seated and stopped it bouncing around when running. You could also add a second roll if you were doing a lot of NBC, but most of us just rolled the noddy suit tight and squeezed it all in with the poncho in one roll. You binned the kidney pouches and replaced them with 3-4 extra water bottle pouches.
😂 brought back memories 😂. Once you'd lugged it around a while you felt naked without it. Your belt (affixed to the yolk) is upside down mate and at the top of the yolk is another fastener for your usual digging tool. Bloody stuff doubled in weight when wet. The full dress (march) had the lot, belt, pouches, bum roll, shovel and pick, respirator, NBC Kit, stabbing and bashing things, amo (SLR and LMG mags), bayonet, mess tins X2, KFS, wash /boot kit, water, rations, poncho, dry kit, sleeping bag, helmet and more, much more, most of which I've long since forgotten but it added up to around 100lb plus in marching order, not including weapons, Comms etc. Battle dress you dropped the large pack, which could be used as a shooting cushion, but anyways this held your Lovelies, warm stuff, 24hr ration pack, socks, cigarettes, etc etc but the side pouches could hold LMG mags. These obviously came out being placed, or replacing stuff elsewhere on your body. Man I've got to chuckle, I'm 20yrs old again running around like a nutter 😂😂 not bad for a 60++ foot slogger😂😂 good days, cheers fella made my day. Oh the kidney pouch release thing made everything 'light order', quiet approach, hand to hand combat like stuff. Brilliant, much love, stay safe. Dave 🤪
The 58 pattern webbing was designed for use by mechanised infantry with no need for extended sustainment as your back up was never more than 48 hours away. This fell apart in the Falklands where the British encountered the age old problem of having to carry heavy loads over broken terrain and stay in the field for weeks at a time.
I wonder how much government budget cuts/military brass had too do with not updating the system for so long too. I suppose there is nothing like a major conflict to act as a proponent for upgrading gear - something the US was getting in spades in the first decade 58 came out.
@@armyand_Outdoorsit wouldn’t surprise me. The Brits always under invest in the Army and treat the Navy as the most important service. This is shown in the fact the British have terrible history of issuing rubbish boots like the Boots DMS and designing their webbing so that the water bottle is inaccessible.
That rucksack you had to get in boots, full set of combats, NBC suit, towel green ,sleeping bag. Probably missed a few things off the list. I'm sure there's an old recruit nco that can remember
just getting into reading Captain McManners 'Falklands Commando' and all their loading up. Not surprised those packs weren't cutting the mustard to stay sustained for weeks in the field
I spent 12 years in the British Army, 1972 to 1984. When I first joined, I was issued 38 pattern, in fact, still had 38 pattern in BAOR for a couple of years. Then, I issued 58 pattern until I left in 84. That said, I was issued a set of 44 pattern at a special unit and used the backpack and water bottle a lot. I never handed it in when posted. I liked all of the sets a lot, great gear.
Interesting to hear - there was certainly some tie overs in gear, NZ being no different-we almost ended up with 58 pat if it weren't for a time schedule-nzdf went with US M56 in the end but you'd find all sorts of 37 & 44 pat being used in Nam etc.
When you were looking at the kidney pouches attchment I noticed the belt was upside down. There are two D rings on the belt which must face downwards. These are the rings which are used to clip your ponch, or bum roll as we called it, too. The majority of the time this was used for your rolled up NBC suit.
The odd fasteners on the kidney pouches. When designed, mechanised warfare was expected to be the norm. So the kidney pouches could be easily taken off to sit in a vehicle. Also, some twit expected troops to dump pouches, either in their vehicle, or on the ground, before going into battle.
@@armyand_Outdoors Most definitely but I'm willing to bet the durability of today's material isn't as good as back then. Gear certainly isn't made to last nowadays unfortunately.
Had the 58 web in 1977 We moved the bum roll to above the kidney pouches stop it snagging on undergrowth When wet it went slack loose so we put Blanco on it to waterproof it to keep it fitted like a glove The Bergen ruck sack replaced the large back pack Fitting tighting the straps rapping black tape around the straps to stop them going loose and bouncing while on a TAB Memories
Canvas gear that, when wet, weighs three times as much and takes forever to dry. Another thing is that it shrinks when wet or washed, so it is a problem to reinsert the SLR magazines. This equipment was used by British Forces in 1982 in the Falklands War.
Okay I have a set of 58 pattern I got from you fellas ages ago and I think mine is genuinely too high on me. I'm guessing it wasn't designed for a 6 foot build
Im the same build roughly, but I could have adjusted it down another 5 inches or so. Off the shelf and not fully weighted, it was quite comfy but with a full load I'd wanna get that weight lower down on my hips I's say
great fun with that stone age pile of crap, the belt shrank when wet, the water bottle would not go back into the pouch when wet, the large back was designed by the Russians to kill you when prone[its the only thing i can think of], and the kidney pouches were a joke, and it weighed a ton when wet, lucky for me "in the field" my unit was cool about kit, so dumped the pouches and used yank water bottles/German pouches [anything NATO was ok lol] .dumped the belt got a cargo strap and got a Bergen, [at least then we could function]even the mess tins got dumped in favour of a tin cup [with black tape to stop burning]i was issued a set of "new" set of mess tins in waxed brown paper marked 1944 lol
yeh looking at all the reference photos predominantly later in its issue I was seeing a lot of this, glad that your unit were more easy going, the poor blighters who wouldn't though...getting a bit of grandpa simulator going for old times sakes 😅
Hi, you are spot on! I have had experience with 37, 44 & 58 pattern webbing (yep, the old generation) most of the gear was crap but like you I was lucky that the mix of gear we had in The Paras from the 60’s when we were mostly in the middle east ensured that the priority was water, ammo and food. As we dropped with all the gear we would carry it was very important that everything was comfortable and sufficient for the action ahead. We were the last generation of squaddies that had the old Arnhem blokes still in our company. Try carrying a full jerrycan of water in your bergen up the jebels and tell me if you thought that the gear was designed for purpose. Cheers mate. Harera
@@pierevojzola9737 I guess it is easy with hindsight to tar the old stuff too on one hand, what I find interesting is the 44 gear being cracked out (and in some cases being preferred). I do use webbing twice my age but can't say I've donned 58 until this video so definitely can't speak from experience. Glad to have the feedback from the lads who served with it!
In BAOR we put the Canteen cup in the cover first then the bottle in upside down, no messing about with the cup, as you said, impossible to get in when wet.
Australian bottle pouches stretched. Some guys used 58 pattern bottles in them. Our SLR pouches basically same same. Weigh more when wet. Scotchguard was semi successful. Meaning it was costly and had to be reapplied a lot. The NBC roll was an ally bit of kit in Australia and sought after. We had no bivi bags so an extra hootchie tarp was a bivi lol
Where is the Respirator case? You cant wear your helmet with the sleeping bag strapped on top of the pack, remember, it should be a mk4, not mk6, try it.
Definitely belt upside down, lol. Not entirely sure if your roll was designed to fit there on those loops as we always used the bottom D rings on the belt, as you had it it would have slapped you silly on an endurance test. Many guys changed out kidney pouches for more water bottle pouches and some well placed bungees . Roll pin belts added as well as sponge of foam taped to the inside , anything that would mitigate bounce and rubbing. The bum roll would be sometimes mounted above the pouches and secured tightly again less rubbing. Absolutely horrendous when wet, it was unable to carry extra batteries, ammo and additional equipment. A gonk bag pretty much filled the thing and god help you if you got the massive torpedo of the night sight. You could customise it all you liked but it was going to take more skin off you than your boots . (Talking as an infantry soldier)
replied to another fella above about that - a foo par from off the shelf, whoops! Its definitely a 'odd' addition to a webset to have hanging below your pouches/butt! Makes sense to move it, a lot of other systems around that period doing the same and strapping it to butt packs etc. The move to Nylon couldn't of come sooner after having to use this for so long, Im sure!
Your also missing your respirator pouch which took up a lot of room and your NBC kit had to fit in your bum roll which made it 3x bigger and rub on your lower back and arse but otherwise great video. Cheers
I should probably mention the other pouches for the binoculars, sidearm etc but our sets haven't come with those additional 'extras.' Appreciate the extra info & kind words! Cheers
@@armyand_Outdoors many grabbed a second poncho roll. One above and on below the kidney pouches. The second was for the NBC suit and boots. Sewing waterbottle pouches together, then using those instead of the kidneys was very popular, if allowed. I carried a second respirator pouch too. As A medic. I had a lot to carry. Random fact of the day. The nylon respirator pouch for the S6.. Its a left over from an experimental set of nylon 58 pattern webbing. I think that was either 72 or 75 pattern during the trials. It was binned, as the nylon was very slippery. So the webbing worked itself apart quickly.
58 pattern was horrible. Very much bomb proof but weighed a ton, absorbed water like it was going out of fashion and then became even heavier. Soldier 95 / PLCE was a HUGE advancement.
One big pile of shite. Double the weight when wet. When new it was bearable but the stuff you got issued had seen too much service so it fell to bits if you didn't tie it up with string. When in the prone position the largepack bore down on the back of your neck making it impossible to look through your weapon's iron sights. Made basic training a misery. Thankfully by the time I hit Battalion the G10 Bergan was available which while not the greatest was way better than that abortion. Avoid other than as a curiosity.
This pack was famously hated by UK troops. It carried next to nothing and was uncomfortable. The Paras and RM Commandos used Para or RM Bergens and in the Falklands 5 Infantry Brigade infantry like the Scots Guards were issued with privately purchased Karrimoor jaguar rucksacks. Rifleman Moore has done excellent videos on the RM Bergen and the Karrimoor rucksack.
yeh hes got some great more detailed info for those interested-as he mentioned, atleast it carried more than its predecessor (which really wasn't hard) but 2 decades later and it was more than wanting by that stage
Most Infantry units in The British Army, in the light role, were using these issued Bergen’s and the General Service (GS) or privately purchased items in the 80’s. The large pack and kidney pouches were universally binned on operations, and only ever really used during basic training.
The Belts upside down mate! The poncho roll should attach to the 2 little D rings that you have in the middle of the kidney pouches. You've got them attached to the kidney pouches.
this one was off the shelf with tape still in place so I didn't think to question the previous soldiers setup! - should of noticed that though cripes! hahaha cheers
That Entrenching tool attachment on the yoke used to dig right into the spine. Most of us cut them off for that reason and carried the shovel or pick handle in the poncho roll.
@@armyand_OutdoorsHe’s right mate. I used this stuff from 1978 - 1990. I don’t think this kit wasn’t put together by someone who actually used it.
The two central clips on the poncho roll clip onto the D rings on the belt. Which should be on the lower edge of the belt.
Where they’re currently clipped onto are just toggles to pull the retaining fasteners of the kidney pouches to get them off quick. They were shit. Would fall off in a light breeze or gentle stroll. So we taped them up.
I got the green PLCE in 1990 or 91 in N. Ireland and it was so much better. Especially when in wet conditions and with a nice big bergan.
@@siwc yeh its interesting getting hands on with the stuff for the first time-the pouch/belt system at a glance seems self intuitive enough, until you look at the kidney pouches and the roll. The roll in particular is a interesting addition; every other web system I can think of would just relegate poncho storage to some extra straps (like on a butt pack). Those attachments too, are 'interesting' especially for the shovel & pick - but as a piece of history from the late 50's, I cannot judge it too harshly for its time it was whipped up.
Back when I was issued this, you wore the belt upside down and attached the bum roll to the top of the pouches rather than underneath. This made it better when seated and stopped it bouncing around when running. You could also add a second roll if you were doing a lot of NBC, but most of us just rolled the noddy suit tight and squeezed it all in with the poncho in one roll. You binned the kidney pouches and replaced them with 3-4 extra water bottle pouches.
😂 brought back memories 😂. Once you'd lugged it around a while you felt naked without it. Your belt (affixed to the yolk) is upside down mate and at the top of the yolk is another fastener for your usual digging tool. Bloody stuff doubled in weight when wet. The full dress (march) had the lot, belt, pouches, bum roll, shovel and pick, respirator, NBC Kit, stabbing and bashing things, amo (SLR and LMG mags), bayonet, mess tins X2, KFS, wash /boot kit, water, rations, poncho, dry kit, sleeping bag, helmet and more, much more, most of which I've long since forgotten but it added up to around 100lb plus in marching order, not including weapons, Comms etc.
Battle dress you dropped the large pack, which could be used as a shooting cushion, but anyways this held your Lovelies, warm stuff, 24hr ration pack, socks, cigarettes, etc etc but the side pouches could hold LMG mags. These obviously came out being placed, or replacing stuff elsewhere on your body.
Man I've got to chuckle, I'm 20yrs old again running around like a nutter 😂😂 not bad for a 60++ foot slogger😂😂 good days, cheers fella made my day.
Oh the kidney pouch release thing made everything 'light order', quiet approach, hand to hand combat like stuff. Brilliant, much love, stay safe. Dave 🤪
I've still got my full 58 webbing from my time serving as a "Gunner/Rock Ape" with the RAF Regiment (1984-1988)
@@scouse1967 which squadrons were you on ?
The 58 pattern webbing was designed for use by mechanised infantry with no need for extended sustainment as your back up was never more than 48 hours away. This fell apart in the Falklands where the British encountered the age old problem of having to carry heavy loads over broken terrain and stay in the field for weeks at a time.
I wonder how much government budget cuts/military brass had too do with not updating the system for so long too. I suppose there is nothing like a major conflict to act as a proponent for upgrading gear - something the US was getting in spades in the first decade 58 came out.
@@armyand_Outdoorsit wouldn’t surprise me. The Brits always under invest in the Army and treat the Navy as the most important service. This is shown in the fact the British have terrible history of issuing rubbish boots like the Boots DMS and designing their webbing so that the water bottle is inaccessible.
That rucksack you had to get in boots, full set of combats, NBC suit, towel green ,sleeping bag. Probably missed a few things off the list. I'm sure there's an old recruit nco that can remember
just getting into reading Captain McManners 'Falklands Commando' and all their loading up. Not surprised those packs weren't cutting the mustard to stay sustained for weeks in the field
NBC suit went in Poncho Roll along with overboots as per SOP BAOR
I spent 12 years in the British Army, 1972 to 1984.
When I first joined, I was issued 38 pattern, in fact, still had 38 pattern in BAOR for a couple of years. Then, I issued 58 pattern until I left in 84.
That said, I was issued a set of 44 pattern at a special unit and used the backpack and water bottle a lot. I never handed it in when posted.
I liked all of the sets a lot, great gear.
Interesting to hear - there was certainly some tie overs in gear, NZ being no different-we almost ended up with 58 pat if it weren't for a time schedule-nzdf went with US M56 in the end but you'd find all sorts of 37 & 44 pat being used in Nam etc.
In cadets we binned the Kidney pouches and replaced them with more water bottle pouches. Looked Gucci 😂
When you were looking at the kidney pouches attchment I noticed the belt was upside down. There are two D rings on the belt which must face downwards. These are the rings which are used to clip your ponch, or bum roll as we called it, too. The majority of the time this was used for your rolled up NBC suit.
lol just mentioned that too
@@rph67 Great minds think alike. Either that or we've both suffered with 58patt webbing. Lol
I was an OP signaller in the 80s. Try carrying the radio with that kit! It was impossible, so bought myself a Karrimor rucksack. So much easier!
Yep, me too, smg went in the pack too, best place for it for all the use it was 🤣
Iv been buying cool gear from you guys monthly for years and only just found ypur UA-cam page.
Catching up to do.
dude, some dedication right there haha - appreciate it mate!
The odd fasteners on the kidney pouches. When designed, mechanised warfare was expected to be the norm. So the kidney pouches could be easily taken off to sit in a vehicle. Also, some twit expected troops to dump pouches, either in their vehicle, or on the ground, before going into battle.
Everything used to shrink when wet.
You have got to waterproof it. Nikwax recommended
I got one last year for cheap price. Also the webbing which was British Forces overseas HK surplus.
The large pack by the 1980's was pretty much only used in recruit training .
yeh there was an interesting excerpt I found somewhere about recruits being given it to appreciate 'the weight of a real pack' 😅
Absolutely love the older stuff all around, definitely more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion! 👍👍🇬🇧
its like US M56-love the look of it, lumping it around over ALICE however....there is a reason why everything is nylon now!
@@armyand_Outdoors Most definitely but I'm willing to bet the durability of today's material isn't as good as back then. Gear certainly isn't made to last nowadays unfortunately.
Had the 58 web in 1977
We moved the bum roll to above the kidney pouches stop it snagging on undergrowth
When wet it went slack loose so we put Blanco on it to waterproof it to keep it fitted like a glove
The Bergen ruck sack replaced the large back pack
Fitting tighting the straps rapping black tape around the straps to stop them going loose and bouncing while on a TAB Memories
Canvas gear that, when wet, weighs three times as much and takes forever to dry. Another thing is that it shrinks when wet or washed, so it is a problem to reinsert the SLR magazines. This equipment was used by British Forces in 1982 in the Falklands War.
have to say it - the yanks were onto it getting ALICE gear as standard in the 70s (with attempts earlier to go nylon).
Okay I have a set of 58 pattern I got from you fellas ages ago and I think mine is genuinely too high on me. I'm guessing it wasn't designed for a 6 foot build
Im the same build roughly, but I could have adjusted it down another 5 inches or so. Off the shelf and not fully weighted, it was quite comfy but with a full load I'd wanna get that weight lower down on my hips I's say
great fun with that stone age pile of crap, the belt shrank when wet, the water bottle would not go back into the pouch when wet, the large back was designed by the Russians to kill you when prone[its the only thing i can think of], and the kidney pouches were a joke, and it weighed a ton when wet, lucky for me "in the field" my unit was cool about kit, so dumped the pouches and used yank water bottles/German pouches [anything NATO was ok lol] .dumped the belt got a cargo strap and got a Bergen, [at least then we could function]even the mess tins got dumped in favour of a tin cup [with black tape to stop burning]i was issued a set of "new" set of mess tins in waxed brown paper marked 1944 lol
yeh looking at all the reference photos predominantly later in its issue I was seeing a lot of this, glad that your unit were more easy going, the poor blighters who wouldn't though...getting a bit of grandpa simulator going for old times sakes 😅
Hi, you are spot on! I have had experience with 37, 44 & 58 pattern webbing (yep, the old generation) most of the gear was crap but like you I was lucky that the mix of gear we had in The Paras from the 60’s when we were mostly in the middle east ensured that the priority was water, ammo and food. As we dropped with all the gear we would carry it was very important that everything was comfortable and sufficient for the action ahead. We were the last generation of squaddies that had the old Arnhem blokes still in our company. Try carrying a full jerrycan of water in your bergen up the jebels and tell me if you thought that the gear was designed for purpose. Cheers mate. Harera
@@pierevojzola9737 I guess it is easy with hindsight to tar the old stuff too on one hand, what I find interesting is the 44 gear being cracked out (and in some cases being preferred). I do use webbing twice my age but can't say I've donned 58 until this video so definitely can't speak from experience. Glad to have the feedback from the lads who served with it!
In BAOR we put the Canteen cup in the cover first then the bottle in upside down, no messing about with the cup, as you said, impossible to get in when wet.
Australian bottle pouches stretched. Some guys used 58 pattern bottles in them. Our SLR pouches basically same same. Weigh more when wet. Scotchguard was semi successful. Meaning it was costly and had to be reapplied a lot. The NBC roll was an ally bit of kit in Australia and sought after. We had no bivi bags so an extra hootchie tarp was a bivi lol
Where is the Respirator case? You cant wear your helmet with the sleeping bag strapped on top of the pack, remember, it should be a mk4, not mk6, try it.
didn't get those along with the other 'extras' like bino pouch, etc. Yeh I wouldn't fancy trying to get a sleeping bag strapped on 😬
Definitely belt upside down, lol. Not entirely sure if your roll was designed to fit there on those loops as we always used the bottom D rings on the belt, as you had it it would have slapped you silly on an endurance test. Many guys changed out kidney pouches for more water bottle pouches and some well placed bungees . Roll pin belts added as well as sponge of foam taped to the inside , anything that would mitigate bounce and rubbing. The bum roll would be sometimes mounted above the pouches and secured tightly again less rubbing. Absolutely horrendous when wet, it was unable to carry extra batteries, ammo and additional equipment. A gonk bag pretty much filled the thing and god help you if you got the massive torpedo of the night sight. You could customise it all you liked but it was going to take more skin off you than your boots . (Talking as an infantry soldier)
replied to another fella above about that - a foo par from off the shelf, whoops! Its definitely a 'odd' addition to a webset to have hanging below your pouches/butt! Makes sense to move it, a lot of other systems around that period doing the same and strapping it to butt packs etc. The move to Nylon couldn't of come sooner after having to use this for so long, Im sure!
Your also missing your respirator pouch which took up a lot of room and your NBC kit had to fit in your bum roll which made it 3x bigger and rub on your lower back and arse but otherwise great video. Cheers
I should probably mention the other pouches for the binoculars, sidearm etc but our sets haven't come with those additional 'extras.' Appreciate the extra info & kind words! Cheers
@@armyand_Outdoors many grabbed a second poncho roll. One above and on below the kidney pouches. The second was for the NBC suit and boots. Sewing waterbottle pouches together, then using those instead of the kidneys was very popular, if allowed. I carried a second respirator pouch too. As A medic. I had a lot to carry.
Random fact of the day. The nylon respirator pouch for the S6.. Its a left over from an experimental set of nylon 58 pattern webbing. I think that was either 72 or 75 pattern during the trials. It was binned, as the nylon was very slippery. So the webbing worked itself apart quickly.
58 pattern was horrible. Very much bomb proof but weighed a ton, absorbed water like it was going out of fashion and then became even heavier. Soldier 95 / PLCE was a HUGE advancement.
One big pile of shite. Double the weight when wet. When new it was bearable but the stuff you got issued had seen too much service so it fell to bits if you didn't tie it up with string. When in the prone position the largepack bore down on the back of your neck making it impossible to look through your weapon's iron sights. Made basic training a misery. Thankfully by the time I hit Battalion the G10 Bergan was available which while not the greatest was way better than that abortion. Avoid other than as a curiosity.
I remember this well. So heavy when wet
This pack was famously hated by UK troops. It carried next to nothing and was uncomfortable. The Paras and RM Commandos used Para or RM Bergens and in the Falklands 5 Infantry Brigade infantry like the Scots Guards were issued with privately purchased Karrimoor jaguar rucksacks. Rifleman Moore has done excellent videos on the RM Bergen and the Karrimoor rucksack.
yeh hes got some great more detailed info for those interested-as he mentioned, atleast it carried more than its predecessor (which really wasn't hard) but 2 decades later and it was more than wanting by that stage
Most Infantry units in The British Army, in the light role, were using these issued Bergen’s and the General Service (GS) or privately purchased items in the 80’s. The large pack and kidney pouches were universally binned on operations, and only ever really used during basic training.
Once it was wet it added an extra 20lbs. And it all shrank. Lol
yeh canvas was ok for the time when it was the only option, but it had definitely done its dash by the 80's....
your belts upside down mate
Bum rolls .
Carry two bum rolls and no large pack.
You shouldn't be able to smell a video...
Rhe rucksack is dog shit
Horrible stuff. Especially when wet.
It was shite.
I remember doing the PLCE video and there being quite a few 'old boys' who were 58 foreva' in the comments. Mysteriously not here this time haha