I believe that the more we talk about Wayland the more awareness we spread, the faster progress might come, so that's good! Also thank you for updating us on the state of wayland
Glad to see the Vesktop team getting due praise, they've come a long way with screen sharing even since I started using it not too long ago (maybe a year ago?). Another great analysis as always :)
The gpu screen recorder overlay works somewhat on wayland now through xwayland! some wayland compositors allow fullscreen overlays when using x11 (kde plasma is one of them). There are some issues with this, for example with multiple monitors since wayland doesn't allow putting a window on a specific monitor. There are also some options that dont work on wayland (such as putting the recorded video in a folder with the name of the game that you recorded). But it works in general now :). It even supports global hotkeys on gnome wayland by bypassing wayland completely lol. I hope gnome implements global hotkeys properly like kde plasma. The way its implemented in hyprland makes it so its not really usable by applications and it conflicts with how it works on kde plasma. The global shortcut protocol is not strict so it allows different behavior for different wayland compositors (desktop portals), even if they are incompatible with each other.
discord canary fixed screensharing for both x11 and wayland, the only problems that i still have are nvidia gpu hardware acceleration (It's NVIDIA's fault for the lack of Vaapi implementation) and video capture devices sharing (probably will be fixed too)
Steam remote play works fine for me under sway. Seems like they're capturing the games Vulkan surface directly instead of relying on the pipewire screen capture portal :)
Good job, but of course there are lot more than that on Wayland-Protocol, speaking of layouts I think on gnome-mutter compositor was a feature merged recently called direct-scan-out where rendering happens directly throughout GPU without interfering with compositor. Another big issue in my opinion is parties of protocol who never got to agree on something but at the same time they have to vote within protocol what should be accepted, as an example is recently added Frog/FIFO protocol which of course brought much needed changes. I wish Wayland to become golden standard in GNU/Linux world, so long live developers who made it possible to have such a great OS. 👍
For my experience, it's gotten MUCH better, but VMs are still a pain on it and games sometimes just don't play nice with it. I am encouraged with how it's coming along though and am ultimately optimistic, but for now I must stay with X11 for certain tasks.
@@SecretlySeven yeah, I'm getting a new light for Christmas so that will help and a new webcam amzn.asia/d/26bBeHy www.obsbot.com/obsbot-meet-2-4k-webcam The light I have currently is a ring light that isn't mine so can't keep it for long
I bought an OLED tv and the text quality was shit on it. I managed to fix it by enabling HDR in kde plasma wayland. I was forced to use wayland to fix my monitor issue. Turns out later that there was a TV setting deep in settings to fix the issue. I was afraid that I would have to switch to wayland to use my monitor, phew. I cant switch to wayland yet because dwl isn't quite there yet (I use dwm on x11) and I use x11 features that will likely never be available on wayland (getting access to other windows information).
I know this is not your phrasing, but calling it 'support for screen tearing' is a weird way to put it - screen tearing is a side effect of not synchronizing the display update with the vertical refresh rate of the monitor. It's sort of like saying you're going to speed up your PC by allowing your CPU to run hotter, when what you mean is you're going to overclock it 🙂
after using Wayland(under KDE) for the last 2 months ill say Yes kinda!? The only issues ive found were related to audio and the screen thing with scaling(Xwayland)
Since i never really run Wayland on my main drive etc... i got a noob question... what would be the best way to get Wayland for Linux Mint - just install KDE DE over it or what would you recomend to do? why do i ask about Wayland that way? I got a 1440p 165hz screen that on settings it does allowe me to set that speed... but when i run games etc... it feels like running at 60-75hz
@@orecchiettealpesto thanks for the tip. Tho i tried Fedora based distros like Nobara i won't lie, Fedora does not feel like something for me sadly :/ and recomendation on something ubuntu based for that? or maybe simple Arch based one? or just go stupid and go with Manjaro xd?
Linux mint has an old version of Wayland for KDE plasma so you need a newer distro that has a newer version of KDE plasma like fedora KDE one viewer just said or endeavour os is what I use If you wanted something Ubuntu or debian based pikaos is the way I would say
Fedora 41 + Wayland + Nvidia feels like a first class gaming and desktop experience now for my use cases. Disabling Nvidia GSP firmware was the last piece of the puzzle for me.
Every time i give wayland a shot i get surprised for 10 minutes and then i try to open a simple app or do some other simple thing and it brakes, so yeah, no, its not ready
@@linuxnext usually more advanced stuff, sometimes games, sometimes virtual machines/emulators, small open source programs that dont acknowledge wayland yet, sometimes i lose my display configuration/fps i set for them, comparing that with everything working flawlessly on xorg i cant just switch, one of my friend recently tried to switch to linux i suggested fedora workstation (wayland only) he has a 5700xt and the first time he tried to install a game with lutris the windows opened completely black, needless to say he downgraded to windows, i thought that was strange since i never had that problem and after testing it was wayland, until the protocol just deals better with xorg stuff i wont be switching
yo, just got an rx 6600, and i'm about to format my archlinux machine, i use dwm atm and i'm waiting to try dwl or sway for a while, but my focus is gaming, so getting straight to the question, when talking about games, performance wise, how is x11 and wayland compared?
If you ask me i'd say given everything that happened recently wayland is 99% ready. Why 99%? Because it's fully functional so it works like it's supposed to, but other 1% that would be fixes and updates.
I still get a strange flickering when using wayland on my 2070, still on 560 drivers though so hopefully it'll be fixed with that until then I had to fall back to x11.
The "discord clients void the tos" thing is untrue. Everyone just repeats it because they heard someone else say it. I ended up actually looking into it. And its false. Says nowhere in the tos that you can't. In fact i found it said the opposite. One person got banned because of a client, but it was automated by a bot, for some technical stuff I won't put here, but the ban was lifted once the case was reviewed and discord staff said explicitly discord clients are allowed.
In 2021, Zorkian (of the Discord infrastructure team) mentioned explicitly that third party clients are actively against their ToS, but they don't actively try to stop them as it'd be a waste of time. It's just that their automated heuristics for catching bots may sometimes mistake a third party client for a self-bot and autoban it. The posts are available on ycombinator. Seems like the main points of conflict in regards to the actual ToS is that it's forbidden to "adapt" or "reverse engineer" the service, both of which would be necessary to implement and use a third party client.
@AnnCatsanndra that would make sense. From what I read in the tos I did remember seeing that. Though those seem to apply more to the devs than the people actually using the client. Who haven't actively adapted or reverse engineered anything. Otherwise at least when reading through the tos before I didn't find anything in that, that said it wouldn't be allowed for an end user to do. I went back and skimmed it. And I don't see anything explicitly stating users may not use a third party client to access their services. Just what is mentioned above.
I should add. This is why free software is important to me. Not just source available. Sure they show the source code. When you aren't allowed to modify it yourself in anyway. It's pretty useless. And to me just comes off as a marketing tactic rather than actually having any kind of actual morality involved in the decision.
i did some research and they are working on it but idk if its gonna be the same as x11, probs not gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264
When Wayland can match and surpass the capabilities of X11, I'll be happy to adopt it as my default display server. But for now, I'm looking forward to a seamless experience where programs install and work effortlessly with Wayland, without requiring me to think about it or troubleshoot compatibility issues. I don't want to have to search for workarounds or run a compatibility layer in the background just to get an app working. This is exactly why new Linux users can be discouraged: they shouldn't need to worry about low-level details like display servers or compatibility layers. They should be able to focus on using their software without any hassle. When Wayland reaches that level of maturity, I'll be thrilled to make the switch and enjoy a more streamlined experience.
@@linuxnext input method engine, it allows you to convert the alphabet on your keyboard to another character, like when you need to type chinese/japanese/korean character. I guess in some compositor it is available, but among the wlroots compositors like what I'm using, the support varies.
Wayland has been a hot topic for linux channels for a while now. Personally I don't really care about the state of wayland. The linux distro I use still has X11 which works fine. Once Wayland is ready it will get shipped with an update and if all goes well I won't even notice a difference. So why should I care about the state of wayland.?
@@anonymous-rj6ok well then my question is why did you click on the video? Don't think I need to tell you why you should care For me I care about Wayland because it's lighter, faster, has more features that work properly like vrr, screen tearing, hdr, multi monitor refresh rates, fractional scaling and yes I know multi monitor refresh rates can work under x11 and Iv tried setting up a config for it on my amd gpu from the arch wiki but it still feels like crap under KDE plasma, so Wayland is the answer, if you have no issues with x11 then that's fine Companies like valve, AMD, Intel and even nvidia are pushing for Wayland to be ready for most things so it's why I made a part 2 for this, it's been 7 months and a lot has changed
I have a rtx 2060 desktop gpu and it works fine under endeavour os KDE plasma, if your on a laptop then yeah you can have some issues but most problems have been solved on newer distros for Wayland desktop PCs
If you are using a display manager that doesn't support Wayland sessions then that will tend to happen. You didn't really give a ton of info here. There could be a lot of reasons that have less to do with it not being ready, and to do with it not being set up properly.
He just put up a community post on the channel, Discord Canary just pushed a first party implementation of Screen Sharing under Wayland.
Is there patch notes somewhere?
Yeah, I saw that, they also fixed audio sharing and made some improvements to game detection, which works fine for me.
And they fixed foldables as well?! Dang, this update will fix all my issues with Discord.
Used vesktop for that for months now
still no global keybind on keybind
I believe that the more we talk about Wayland the more awareness we spread, the faster progress might come, so that's good!
Also thank you for updating us on the state of wayland
It's ironic this video comes after Discord Canery seems to fix wayland screensharing and sound sharing lol
@@AtsutsA I know 😭😭😭
@@linuxnextcrazy timing, still a good video tho 🤣
There are like 3 or 4 big protocols that are almost completed in wayland. HDR/Color and Session restore among them
The official state question of New Mexico is "Red or green?", which refers to which type of chile sauce you'd like on your food.
Positively eloquent assessment, my good fellow~
Green obviously
new green-screen setup is a good improvement *thumbsup*
@@user-dz3ph7dl4m thank you :)
I'm getting a new light also for it so that will improve it even more
Glad to see the Vesktop team getting due praise, they've come a long way with screen sharing even since I started using it not too long ago (maybe a year ago?). Another great analysis as always :)
I love Sunshine! I hope it becomes more mainstream with the years. If you use it and enjoy it, please support the project and help develop further ❤
Great video mate
There is also wine Wayland coming soon
@@n.m4497 yes that's in the video :P
The gpu screen recorder overlay works somewhat on wayland now through xwayland! some wayland compositors allow fullscreen overlays when using x11 (kde plasma is one of them). There are some issues with this, for example with multiple monitors since wayland doesn't allow putting a window on a specific monitor. There are also some options that dont work on wayland (such as putting the recorded video in a folder with the name of the game that you recorded). But it works in general now :). It even supports global hotkeys on gnome wayland by bypassing wayland completely lol.
I hope gnome implements global hotkeys properly like kde plasma. The way its implemented in hyprland makes it so its not really usable by applications and it conflicts with how it works on kde plasma. The global shortcut protocol is not strict so it allows different behavior for different wayland compositors (desktop portals), even if they are incompatible with each other.
Gnome is literally holding desktop linux back now. Some new users give up on linux because of problems that are only really gnome problems
discord canary fixed screensharing for both x11 and wayland, the only problems that i still have are nvidia gpu hardware acceleration (It's NVIDIA's fault for the lack of Vaapi implementation) and video capture devices sharing (probably will be fixed too)
No cap discord implemented Wayland screensharing under canary?
EDIT: i see it is implemented, thats awesome, AND AUDIO ALSO WTF
@@linuxnext yesss it's incredible ahaha i saw a post on linux_gaming sub and couldn't believe it
Steam remote play works fine for me under sway. Seems like they're capturing the games Vulkan surface directly instead of relying on the pipewire screen capture portal :)
Good job, but of course there are lot more than that on Wayland-Protocol, speaking of layouts I think on gnome-mutter compositor was a feature merged recently called direct-scan-out where rendering happens directly throughout GPU without interfering with compositor.
Another big issue in my opinion is parties of protocol who never got to agree on something but at the same time they have to vote within protocol what should be accepted, as an example is recently added Frog/FIFO protocol which of course brought much needed changes.
I wish Wayland to become golden standard in GNU/Linux world, so long live developers who made it possible to have such a great OS. 👍
For my experience, it's gotten MUCH better, but VMs are still a pain on it and games sometimes just don't play nice with it. I am encouraged with how it's coming along though and am ultimately optimistic, but for now I must stay with X11 for certain tasks.
Once WINE releases a Wayland version, I hope Proton will begin merging ARM support and Waydroid! 🥺
Supposed to be any day now
Greenscreen looks alright. Lighting is always the hard part!
@@SecretlySeven yeah, I'm getting a new light for Christmas so that will help and a new webcam
amzn.asia/d/26bBeHy
www.obsbot.com/obsbot-meet-2-4k-webcam
The light I have currently is a ring light that isn't mine so can't keep it for long
I bought an OLED tv and the text quality was shit on it. I managed to fix it by enabling HDR in kde plasma wayland. I was forced to use wayland to fix my monitor issue.
Turns out later that there was a TV setting deep in settings to fix the issue.
I was afraid that I would have to switch to wayland to use my monitor, phew. I cant switch to wayland yet because dwl isn't quite there yet (I use dwm on x11) and I use x11 features that will likely never be available on wayland (getting access to other windows information).
I know this is not your phrasing, but calling it 'support for screen tearing' is a weird way to put it - screen tearing is a side effect of not synchronizing the display update with the vertical refresh rate of the monitor. It's sort of like saying you're going to speed up your PC by allowing your CPU to run hotter, when what you mean is you're going to overclock it 🙂
Well screen tearing is what is used in the settings page, if you want to be specific they brought asynchronous support under Wayland
I am on xfce, will cross over to wayland when it becomes wfce.
I think wayland is ready now.
been using it for 7 months under gnome with nvidia and i definitely see the progress
web version of discord doesnt support screen sharing anymore. it used to work
rippers
after using Wayland(under KDE) for the last 2 months ill say Yes kinda!? The only issues ive found were related to audio and the screen thing with scaling(Xwayland)
Since i never really run Wayland on my main drive etc... i got a noob question...
what would be the best way to get Wayland for Linux Mint - just install KDE DE over it or what would you recomend to do?
why do i ask about Wayland that way? I got a 1440p 165hz screen that on settings it does allowe me to set that speed... but when i run games etc... it feels like running at 60-75hz
i advise you to not use mint, just use fedora kde and it comes with better fractional scaling variable refresh rate and hdr
@@orecchiettealpesto thanks for the tip. Tho i tried Fedora based distros like Nobara i won't lie, Fedora does not feel like something for me sadly :/
and recomendation on something ubuntu based for that? or maybe simple Arch based one? or just go stupid and go with Manjaro xd?
endeavouros with kde is very good
if you want something like debian just use KDE on your current distro
its easy@@Karti200
Linux mint has an old version of Wayland for KDE plasma so you need a newer distro that has a newer version of KDE plasma like fedora KDE one viewer just said or endeavour os is what I use
If you wanted something Ubuntu or debian based pikaos is the way I would say
Honestly if you like mint just wait for cinnamon to support wayland, if you really wish to try it live boot fedora with gnome, kde
Fedora 41 + Wayland + Nvidia feels like a first class gaming and desktop experience now for my use cases. Disabling Nvidia GSP firmware was the last piece of the puzzle for me.
@@jafizzle95 that's great to hear :)
It works well for me. I am using on gnome endeavouros.
Every time i give wayland a shot i get surprised for 10 minutes and then i try to open a simple app or do some other simple thing and it brakes, so yeah, no, its not ready
Havent had that. Do you have Nvidia?
@@theundefinedx0018 negative, RX 6700XT
what applications are you opening? i have a rx 6700 and have zero problems, like literally zero on kde 6.2.4 wayland, arch
@@linuxnext usually more advanced stuff, sometimes games, sometimes virtual machines/emulators, small open source programs that dont acknowledge wayland yet, sometimes i lose my display configuration/fps i set for them, comparing that with everything working flawlessly on xorg i cant just switch, one of my friend recently tried to switch to linux i suggested fedora workstation (wayland only) he has a 5700xt and the first time he tried to install a game with lutris the windows opened completely black, needless to say he downgraded to windows, i thought that was strange since i never had that problem and after testing it was wayland, until the protocol just deals better with xorg stuff i wont be switching
yo, just got an rx 6600, and i'm about to format my archlinux machine, i use dwm atm and i'm waiting to try dwl or sway for a while, but my focus is gaming, so getting straight to the question, when talking about games, performance wise, how is x11 and wayland compared?
The comparison is none honestly on an AMD gpu, it would be the same or very close
still waiting on pointer warp protocol
Wake me up when there is a nvidia-settings app on wayland.
Aight bet lol
Year of Wayland desktop
nvidia is certainly ready now.
If you ask me i'd say given everything that happened recently wayland is 99% ready. Why 99%? Because it's fully functional so it works like it's supposed to, but other 1% that would be fixes and updates.
Wayland has been ready since at least 2020, here's how I installed it back then: sudo pacman -Sy gnome-desktop
Wayland with Nvidia only became usable earlier this year
@fooboomoo that company can go bankrupt and take their Redmond cronies with them.
Hey man, could you do a video showing the new theme on Cinnamon 6.4? I guess everybody is waiting for this one heheh
Hmm maybe, I have a decent amount of videos lined up, guess it won't be hard as that version is already available under arch repos
@@linuxnext Nice! Btw, it seems Discord Canary implemented a first draft on Wayland screenshare as well, so Wayland just keeps getting better!
@@softwarelivre2389 yeah it's great timing, I made a community post and I made a video that will be uploaded tomorrow :P
I still get a strange flickering when using wayland on my 2070, still on 560 drivers though so hopefully it'll be fixed with that until then I had to fall back to x11.
What desktop environment and distro? Are you using any nvidia parameters aswell?
@@linuxnext Kubuntu 24.10 and just whatever is default. It's most noticeable in full screen things like videos and games.
@@centy64 kubuntu 24.10 is running plasma 6.1.5, there have been a lot more fixes for nvidia in 6.2 so I'd wait for that to arrive
The "discord clients void the tos" thing is untrue. Everyone just repeats it because they heard someone else say it. I ended up actually looking into it. And its false. Says nowhere in the tos that you can't. In fact i found it said the opposite.
One person got banned because of a client, but it was automated by a bot, for some technical stuff I won't put here, but the ban was lifted once the case was reviewed and discord staff said explicitly discord clients are allowed.
In 2021, Zorkian (of the Discord infrastructure team) mentioned explicitly that third party clients are actively against their ToS, but they don't actively try to stop them as it'd be a waste of time. It's just that their automated heuristics for catching bots may sometimes mistake a third party client for a self-bot and autoban it. The posts are available on ycombinator.
Seems like the main points of conflict in regards to the actual ToS is that it's forbidden to "adapt" or "reverse engineer" the service, both of which would be necessary to implement and use a third party client.
@AnnCatsanndra that would make sense. From what I read in the tos I did remember seeing that. Though those seem to apply more to the devs than the people actually using the client. Who haven't actively adapted or reverse engineered anything.
Otherwise at least when reading through the tos before I didn't find anything in that, that said it wouldn't be allowed for an end user to do. I went back and skimmed it. And I don't see anything explicitly stating users may not use a third party client to access their services. Just what is mentioned above.
I should add. This is why free software is important to me.
Not just source available. Sure they show the source code. When you aren't allowed to modify it yourself in anyway. It's pretty useless. And to me just comes off as a marketing tactic rather than actually having any kind of actual morality involved in the decision.
Spunds like in a year or 2 most things solved
Nah! Frictional scaling is still kinda pixelated on Wayland. X11 is totally fine.
The only issue i've seen is gnomes gtk applications have problems with fractional scaling on desktops like KDE plasma Wayland
Why am I just learning that Wayland doesn't support overlays. No wonder why adaptation is slow
I understand the security implications, but if thats so limiting that it hampers app development i am not sure it's the right approach
i did some research and they are working on it but idk if its gonna be the same as x11, probs not
gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264
Poopin' in the woods again! What has this Linux community coming to...
What does that even mean 😭😭😂
@@linuxnext you leaned your swords against the rock.... putting your weapons down in the wilderness means only ONE thing...🤣
When Wayland can match and surpass the capabilities of X11, I'll be happy to adopt it as my default display server. But for now, I'm looking forward to a seamless experience where programs install and work effortlessly with Wayland, without requiring me to think about it or troubleshoot compatibility issues. I don't want to have to search for workarounds or run a compatibility layer in the background just to get an app working.
This is exactly why new Linux users can be discouraged: they shouldn't need to worry about low-level details like display servers or compatibility layers. They should be able to focus on using their software without any hassle. When Wayland reaches that level of maturity, I'll be thrilled to make the switch and enjoy a more streamlined experience.
I just need ime to be fixed honestly
whats ime?
@@linuxnext input method engine, it allows you to convert the alphabet on your keyboard to another character, like when you need to type chinese/japanese/korean character. I guess in some compositor it is available, but among the wlroots compositors like what I'm using, the support varies.
Wayland has been a hot topic for linux channels for a while now. Personally I don't really care about the state of wayland. The linux distro I use still has X11 which works fine. Once Wayland is ready it will get shipped with an update and if all goes well I won't even notice a difference. So why should I care about the state of wayland.?
@@anonymous-rj6ok well then my question is why did you click on the video? Don't think I need to tell you why you should care
For me I care about Wayland because it's lighter, faster, has more features that work properly like vrr, screen tearing, hdr, multi monitor refresh rates, fractional scaling and yes I know multi monitor refresh rates can work under x11 and Iv tried setting up a config for it on my amd gpu from the arch wiki but it still feels like crap under KDE plasma, so Wayland is the answer, if you have no issues with x11 then that's fine
Companies like valve, AMD, Intel and even nvidia are pushing for Wayland to be ready for most things so it's why I made a part 2 for this, it's been 7 months and a lot has changed
@@linuxnext I click all your videos coz I like the majority of your videos.
@anonymous-rj6ok oh well that makes sense :P
Do you have a Chinese mother?
no, i'm quarter German
@@linuxnext wow thanks for the reply.
no, no its not. it doesnt even boot to desktop when i choose wayland
Which DE do you use and a graphics card?
Do you use nvidia? You need to use the right drivers and enable DRM
I have a rtx 2060 desktop gpu and it works fine under endeavour os KDE plasma, if your on a laptop then yeah you can have some issues but most problems have been solved on newer distros for Wayland desktop PCs
If you are using a display manager that doesn't support Wayland sessions then that will tend to happen. You didn't really give a ton of info here. There could be a lot of reasons that have less to do with it not being ready, and to do with it not being set up properly.
@@techzone2009 Well, that's the thing. If Wayland was ready, it shouldn't matter which DE or graphics card you are using.
Who even likes gnome?
lots of people
Ew linux!
debian gaming distro = p[ika os