Hegelian Recognition and Incels
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2018
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Recommended reading:
“Hegel” by Charles Taylor, Part II: Phenomenology: IV The Dialectic of Consciousness, V Self-Consciousness (rosswolfe.files.wordpress.com...)
“Social and Political Recognition” by Paddy McQueen (www.iep.utm.edu/recog_sp/)
“Recognition” by Mattias Iser (plato.stanford.edu/entries/re...)
Elliot Rodger’s manifesto:
www.documentcloud.org/documen...
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I'd like to clear something up in case there's any confusion. When talking about "incels", I definitely don't mean any man who is a virgin but would like not to be. I think mocking people for being virgins is terrible in several ways - it's a view that assumes that a person's validity somehow hinges on whether they've had sex or not, it excludes asexual people, and is often part of the same attitude that demeans women for NOT being virgins. When I talk about incels, I talk about the general incel community where a foundational idea seems to be that women somehow commit an injustice by choosing who to sleep with, and all the sexist ideas that along come with it.
As for the incels in the comments, I just have some questions:
- If you think women don't get rejected, demeaned or ridiculed for their looks just as often if not more than men, what are you basing that on? How many women have you talked to about their experiences with rejection, dating, harassment, etc.?
- If you claim that your negative or resentful attitude towards women was caused by women mistreating you, have you also been mistreated by men? If so, did that lead you to adopt a generalizing view of men as evil, shallow or malicious?
- Do you think that it is right for people to judge you based on who you find attractive? If not, why do you think it's okay for you to judge women based on who they find attractive?
- If you met a woman who often spoke negatively about men, calling them evil, shallow or malicious, would you want to date them? If not, why should a woman in the opposite situation want to date you?
Its cool, man. I didn't think there was any confusion :)
Ixian Technocrat not true
Plus the thing that helps women never get alone and easily find a sexual partner is that it's in their nature to look attractive and feel good enough for potential partner and male admiration. As much as they say they don't Care about what other people think, they do put a lot more effort and thought into their physical appearance, in a way that a man couldn't understand it. Men do these types of things, but in a way it's forced and they do it strictly to be attractive to women. So women could be repulsive and unattractive as some men, but most try intentionally or unintentionally to look good. While as men have a far different view point of themselves and what they want to achieve
Stan 1
so the problem was with themselves for being shy and having a bit of aspergers? They should have changed themselves to fit in with the currently normal practices around socializing and dating?
An anti-society movement is a good thing, incels just pin all the wrong issues and propose retarded solutions. In a parallel universe, r9k absorbed some understanding of history and economics, and is the greatest nihilist leftist movement of its day.
Also, men and women being aliens to each other is a thing for most people not just incels, but its not because of biology, its strictly a result of culture.
Women judge men by character and behavior. Anyone can develop these and they are rooted in Hegel's recognition. When it comes to sex, men and women simply have a different set of considerations to make when finding partners and we also know that men want it more. The only injustice here is to the degree we reinforce beliefs to the contrary. Blame the negative liberty state and the constituency who benefits from a disempowered population. Stand for a positive liberty solution to the corruption of institutional reason which perpetuates the lack of recognition we all seek.
why is my first reply to this hidden?
the virgin descartes and the chad hegel?
Fits the meme, considering Hegel is wrong!
He's not wrong.
Not only do you claim Hegel isn't wrong, but you also dare to follow the revised version of the virgin-chad meme? Heresy!
Well Wrong or right is a bit of a past concept when discussing Hegel and Descartes. Because both views work in a way. And both views lead to psychological problems when taken to the extreme. But for me i find Hegel's views unappealing.
Koen Diepen.
If i may ask, exactly what do you find unappealing about Hegel's views ?
You did the hegelian spin on this, now you are missing the lacanian half to make a zizek sandwich
wansongagain
I don't have a problem with Zizek, but that doesn't sound very appetizing.
sugg sugg what u dont like *sniff* old man sweat
Žižek Sandwich sounds like a sick tankie grunge band
*pure ideology*
wansongagain that sandwich is full of maggots
I'm going through a phase where I feel distant and unrelatable to those around me. This vid has encouraged me to engage more, not less, with those around me. One cannot have self respect without respecting others.
It's okay man! I'm going through a similar phase too :)) Sometimes people need that silence to figure their life out. And it does not make you weird and don't let anyone tell you otherwise:))
This isn't uncommon for me either. I have to force myself not to isolate. It is a large part of the reason I haven't gotten sick in the past couple years though.
They don't deserve respect.
You are a victim of neoliberal individualism, which leaves us isolated and cynical. The solution is communist collectivism. Theory and praxis will set you free.
I have achieved galaxy brain
i have achieved space mind 5000
womp womp
literally this
M8 have you even read Locke??
Lol
Finally a critique of incels that doesn't end with either more stigmatisation or a lack of resolution in general. Good stuff.
What usually gets stigmatized in this topic?
+Jack Wiessel
Well mostly the fact that the reason incels don't develop relationships is because they lack physical attractiveness or are minorities. Instead people often try to claim it's because they hate women, when in reality the hatred started after they've learned about their lack of physical attractiveness.
*+bbbbrrrzzt* I agree, and it also help you understand Hegel a bit!
A few weeks ago I was listening to the Femsplainers podcast, and they also briefly mentioned the incels (Ep. 6: Sex, Drugs & Redemption - around the 32 minute mark: femsplainers.com/#listen) Just in case you're interested. After all, it's easy to demonise and stigmatise, but if you want to [help] solve the problem, it can help to take a view that still sees them as humans, albeit human males. They mention being 'black pilled' and the deep nihilistic depression that it can involve.
+Luke Bruce It's most likely lack of social skills rather than lack of physical attractiveness. Women, in general or at least ones I met, don't think physical attractiveness is that important.
They say they don't think that, but reality is completely the opposite.
I know this is an old video, but I've recently been through some very traumatic and revelatory experiences with men in relationships after dating them my whole life and decided to de-center them in my personal life, at least for a while. I think ultimately, I fear that deep down, even "good" men don't view me (a woman) as fully human and essentially the same as them as thinking, feeling subjects. So the master/slave Hegelian dialectic has been on my mind a lot lately. I may need to rewatch this as I don't fully grasp how that contradiction becomes a synthesis. I want men to heal, both for their own sake and so we can really truly come into communion and solidarity with each other. I still have hope that that can be real, but it's very hard to hold onto, especially with manosphere chuds and rising fascism becoming increasingly pervasive and insidious.
You can't expect 3+ billion men to "heal", especially when most of them don't view their sexism as a problem in the first place. #NotAllMen but it's safe to assume the average bloke you meet is like that unless he proves otherwise.
@@trustytrest Terrible way to view reality and 4 billion men. I really doubt racial profiling is good even though Black Americans commit 51% of crimes despite being 13% of the population. I think you first need to look at how you choose people, and what qualities do you find "attractive." Sometimes the people you end up attracting are horrible men. As human beings, we tend to be the maker of our own problems. Second, this is in reply to you trustytrest. Generally, if someone is born into a loving and supporting family with a mother and a father who love them then there should be very little room to worry in terms of misogyny. You can never """""""heal"""""""" anyone. The last possibility is that you're probably a terrible person who is going to the Internet for advice (never do that).
The problem with the leftist worldview is that it assumes that people that express sexist or racist views were influenced by their parents, community, or some type of institution like the education system or the government. If we point out that non-white countries can also be sexist, homophobic, and even racist, a leftist will say "that's the legacy of colonialism" because deep down, in a state of nature, no one is actually racist, sexist, homophobic unless they were corrupted from the outside. Even in same-sex relationships one individual tends to take "the active" side and the other will take "the passive" side. Unless we live in a transhumanist world, leftists will always be made uncomfortable by natural inequalities and their solution will be, "more education."
@@aesop1451 Falsely attributing these to "natural inequalities" simply because you misunderstand the extent to which these learned concepts affect all aspects of the human experience does not actually mean that the "leftist worldview" is floundering. Yes, in the state of nature, no one is actually racist, sexist, or homophobic because the things that they denote (namely race, gender, and sexual orientation) did not exist in any substantial social form to which such denotations could be created. If you exist before the existence of social categorization, then all you have is physical identifiers, which do not intrinsically denote any particular conception of the group outside of what is created through social commonality. There is no consciousness that is created in the state of nature when there is no substantial difference between the individual and their supposed other. This is exactly what is being said in this video.
this is great because it simultaneously explains incels via the hegelian dialectic and the hegelian dialectic via incels. good stuff
This actually helped me understand this part of Hegel, noice
If you haven't seen it, Philosophy Tube did a nice dramatization and discussion of Hegelian recognition a few months ago. ua-cam.com/video/OgNt1C72B_4/v-deo.html
Dorian sapiens fck yeah, thanks
Hahaha while reading him, same here
You don't understand Hegel
Anything that helps to understand Hegel is nice, because Hegel certainly didn't do a goddamn thing to help people understand him. Also I reccomend the Half-Hour Hegel series by the Saddle man himself Dr. Gregory B Saddler.
Hegel was just like...bruh
This is simultaneously obvious and mind-blowing. Thank you, I now have language for some of the concepts in my head.
ikr
Excellent analysis. I've just watched it twice! The only thing I would add is to bring up the phenomenon that, in the second stage of the dialectic (the master-slave relation), the relations of master and slave can often reverse and invert themselves over time without changing the fundamental relationship. This would explain the strange bipolarity of the incels who, on the one hand, put women "on a pedestal" (and thus assume a slave position) and incels who, on the other hand, lash out and go on killing sprees like Eliot Rodger (trying to assume a master position). And of course, these contradictory feelings can exist simultaneously or successively in the same misogynist subject. The essence of dialectics is to show, with the master-slave relation, how contradictions like this can coexist, and yet remain the same unified force. And that's why, only by abandoning the master-slave relation to assume a relation of mutual freedom and aid, can we escape the cycle of hatred and overglorification of women (or for that matter, other customarily oppressed groups (race, gender, class, etc.), who are also alternately fetishized by liberals and brutalized by reactionaries).
The only people that can assume this position of mutual freedom, is ''slaves'' masters would never identify an unworthy creature as equal, and people knows that, they are not equal.
''Masters'' are product of competition, they have prove their worth, your argument doesn't apply to reality, since one gender/race achieved things, and the other gender/race was given, therefore can be taken.
YOu have this opinion, because in the west, ''masters'' need to built a new type of slavery, very sophisticated one, therefore they pushed everyone into an only atmosphere, where there, everyone is equal, but they not live there, they live outside, people inside doesn't know they are inside, nature don't lie, never, anytime the walls of illusion will collapse, the ''wealth inequality'' that liberals preach wholeheartedly, is the proof that I'm right, every one in the bottom is equal, rights are something that if you have, another person have to give you, powerful individuals doesn't need rights, because they have power, simple as that.
WIth out the powerful generating a demand to ''slaves'' in this new sophisticated system, you would never even conceptualize this, they need to give the ''slaves'' the impression that they are free, if you didn't achieve that, why do you diserve? Do you have unconditional worth? Why should I believe you?
People like you creates your own path to serfdom without even notice, is built on, nothing you can do about it.
That's a good point, i believe that the slave-master model with the straight man as a master is more fitted with pick-up artists and over promiscus man. They try to get validated and recognized by others through seduction and sex, but they can't ever get it as they see womens as objects and tools. While incels and loveshys see themself as slaves, unable to be recognized and thus forming resentment and wroth. The first ones to the master, the second ones to themselfs
A confession: I am reading Hegel's "Phenomenology of Mind" now, and I keep thinking to myself: "you're just making this up as you go along, mate, aren't you?"
lol
Philosophy of History is very good
Recomend it
Napoleon Bonaparte, Empereur des Français As far as I am concerned everyone who is interested in philosophy needs to read Philosophy of History.
We all thought this tbh
Well he literally was. Hegel was extremely rushed in finishing the book. He was sending chapters to his publisher as he was still writing
Also; today I learned that I went through Hegel’s dialectic.
When I was about 18, I was what would probably now be described as an incel. Thankfully the internet culture around this term hadn’t developed to the point I fell down that rabbit hole, but I definitely got to the point where I blamed women for not recognizing me.
So, because I didn’t have social pressure to stay in that mindset, I eventually had to accept that women were also humans with thoughts and preferences and to gain their recognition I had to recognize them.
I’m 25 now and am married with a kid.
Hell yeah brother!
You're married with a kid? That's illegal
(All jokes aside good on you it's nice hearing that someone improved his/her live)
and you recognized women how exactly?
This application of Hegel's Master-slave dialectal really helped me understand it. Thank you from a soci major 😅
I'm going through a phase. Man i really need more of this kind of videos.
This video is so beautifully made. Such excellent work.
The issue I have with this video is that it turns Hegel's dialectic of consciousness into a somehow purely psychological view, where recognizing the other means simply to respect them, and hoping that if you respect them they will respect you. And the problem is that that would mean that, in a Marxist context, for instance, the conflict between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie should be solved by the working class attempting to look at the rich with more compassion. Evidently, that would be ignoring the ideological conflicts and contradictions between the parts, and the fact that, to use the popular term, a synthesis between them needs to be achieved for a true interdependence to be realized. The idea that incels should simply speak with others more and that in itself will solve the interpersonal conflicts by becoming socialized, points to a somewhat comformist vision of the world, where you don't need to have a dialectical dialogue with the world but rather simply be assimilated by it. It's the equivalent of saying that inmigrants will stop being discriminated against if only they become more american; of course not, there are political, cultural and ideological contradictions underpinning the problem, and the only way to achieve genuine intersubjectivity is to solve such contradictions in each person's own subjectivity. It's a matter of the progress of the whole of human thought in history, or at least the transformation of the consciousness of two people, not an individual problem. If only the individual were to recognize the other, but were to remain unrecognized by them, then alienation hasn't gone anywhere.
This is why Hegel's idealism is deficient, and Marx's stroke of genius lay in "turning him on his head" - it is not individuals who do this to find some kind of epiphany of ideas, but the material processes governing how we make the things we want and need which force change, and, based on the needs which arise from that, political resolution - revolution.
@@IPlayWithFire135 I don't think that's Hegel's fault, but only this video's reading of Hegel. In general it seems that Marxists tend to see Hegel as someone who doesn't care about the material world but only abstract stuff. But I don't think that's true at all. It only looks that way because most of Hegel's work deals with metaphysics, epistemology and ethics, but he is very explicit about the importance of the material world as the source of knowledge and also about the importance of ideas being made concrete in the material world in order for them to have meaning at all.
Wouldn't that be comparing women with the bourgeoisie or just anyone in power? I am pretty sure every women will not ignore a man if they try to socialize with them with respect. This video is only talking about Hegel's idea in the context of incels. I don't think anyone should see it as a critique of his work.
@@Shilpa_Kujur But isn't the dialectic of the Master and the Slave in itself a matter of control and power?
As I understand it, for Hegel true reconciliation between people isn't just a feeling of respect or tolerance, but comes by the hand of absolute knowledge. In the rest of the Phenomenology, Hegel is extremely concerned about history, ethics and religion, because for him people accept each other once they understand their nature and the nature of the world and their unity. Otherwise, people who merely "respect" each other are just observing social customs without actually having a mutual understanding in their essence. Recognizing the other is merely the first stepping stone in such attempt of unity. You can't truly accept each other if you have a fundamentally different view of reality or morality, you can only tolerate each other from an existential distance, or love the other unilaterally.
Hegel was an idealist so his dialectic was an idealist dialectic. What Marx did that was so important was "turn Hegel on his head" and apply Hegel's idealist dialectic to the material world. If you read the master-slave dialect through a materialist lens what you should be asking is - which groups of people are using other groups of people, as instruments for resource extraction, to enrich themselves? This "instrumentalization" of the other group is a denial of their subjectivity. The proletariat are not recognised as fully human subjects by the bourgeoisie, just instruments for use to acquire profit. Mutual recognition of subjectivity, here, can only be gained by getting rid of the class system of exploitation and people mutually deciding what is produced.
Again, for the discrimination against immigrants, the purpose is to refuse to recognise their subjectivity and reduce them from subjects to objects so that they can be placed at the bottom of the hierarchy as super-exploited instruments of resource extraction in a capitalist economy.
The question to ask yourself is - to what extent do incels recognise women as subjects in their own right and to what extent do they see women as objects? i.e. that women exist just as a resource for men's sexual gratification.
Looking back at this video, I'm glad this channel exists. It's refreshing to see someone well versed in philosophy who is willing to analyze modern online culture.
Your content is fantastic, certainly deserves more recognition!
This is one of the best pop philosophy video I've ever seen. Bravo! Keep going, you're doing a great good.
This is a very well appreciated video that explains the necessity of interacting with others and treating them as free human beings, without succumbing to the simplistic notion of the Golden Rule.
It's baffling how we've gotten to this point, but I hope more of the isolated and angry people of the world, (not just incels,) are able to accept this lesson and overcome their personal difficulties, and thus help others overcome their own.
I just found this channel and love how you merge philosophy with modern day's topics
I feel like I learn so much from watching your videos,
thank you.
This is quickly becoming my favorite channel on youtube. You're a cool dude my dude.
Reading Erich Fromm's The Art of Loving would be beneficial to lots of people. It sure was to me.
I was thinking I clicked on the wrong video until I was 3 and a half minutes in. It was so intelligent and well explained. Great work.
Great work yet again! So proud of your efforts. Please continue
Absolutely outstanding contribution to the virtual world.
What a pretentous comment.
Saul Spanco How is this pretentious?
this channel is so underrated 💚💚💚
Dang man your videos better than they first appear. Good job!
This is really awesome! You should be proud of yourself to be able to research and put together this video in a way that others can understand.
It's hard to overstate just how important I think this video is, because it explains in an easy-to-understand way an idea whose acceptance by the general public will be vital to the continued survival of the human species. I try to share it with others whenever possible.
what an excellent channel goddanmit
Your channel is not that bad either ;)
Wow, this has been the most philosophical experience I've ever had, and it was awesome!
This video is incredible, it helped me immensely in understanding this part of Hegel...
So basically: treat others like you want to be treated
As long as you understand that "a lot of people are going to harm you no matter what you do"
that's what i always say to people. guess iam Hegelian now
@@flandrescarlet1111 Alot of us are Hegelian without knowing it, which is probably part of the reason why he's surging in popularity.
In the end it all comes back to Kant
"Recognizing the Other is not a passive process." Brilliant video, cheers!
This is one of my new favourite channels.
i love the writing quality of the script, so much
that just means we need to finally trigger the third impact
I love how your content shows how to take a breath, and look at some of our most terrifying monsters in a reasoned light. This is just an excellent video.
They aren't any more of a monster than any of these leftoid communists.
The most genius philosophical channel on UA-cam. Great work!
5 thumbs up. Your videos inspire me to try to read Hegel again.
This reminds me a lot of the last two episodes of NGE plus EoE, I could imagine Shinji being told this
This video helped me understand Historical Materialism fully.
Your editing is really improving! This video was very impressively put together.
I love your channel, your videos are so good, and you don't leave such a big gap between uploads. Yours is my favourite channel for the time being. Holy hell, I got mind blown
Marx develops this significantly more. Specifically the "Private Property and Communism" chapter of the 1844 Manuscripts.
"Not only is the material of my activity given to me as a social product, my own existence is social activity-"
"The individual is the social being. His life, even if it may not appear in the direct form of a communal life carried out together with others - is therefore an expression and confirmation of social life."
His earlier stuff builds on this and brings it to a materialist foundation.
dylan that notion is not nearly as readily applicable as Hegelian concepts and ultimately fails in proving what it sets out to accomplish
What are you referring to? The chapter/manuscripts go into much more detail.
dylan BF Skinners also adds to this in terms of psychology.
Materialism though important is a dead end.
Wamu-Divine sandstorm.
Really ? You want a definition of the dead end that we are all living in and is getting worse ?
The masses, mostly under-educated, obsessed with fashion, style ,swag and the trinkets of social status at any cost, increasing crime ,violence, mental illness and homelessness crowding the city streets, increasing opioid abuse, suicides and nihilism.
That is the dead end of Materialism.
TEEN WEREWOLVES!
when people make fun of that sort of thing it weirds me out, because who wouldn't want to be a teen werewolf? sounds cool
I'm betting Twilight is involved there somewhere.
The best part of that news report is the principal who doesn't care because the werewolves don't cause any more trouble than other cliques.
"If teens were wolves..."
Sounds like the title of a play lol
mahoulo612 The idea of being a teen werewolf is cool but that idea clashes with the fact that they are obviously ordinary people who want to feel special.
THIS IS A SUPERB WORK. A WORK OF ART I WOULD SAY. THANKS FOR MAKING THESE KIND OF VIDEOS.
Truly an amazing video,
I studied much about Hegel master and slave dialectic and this illustrates it in a great way and as always you find a good subject to base it on.
Thanks, looking forward for more
Incels just need to keep trying. It's hard, I know. I spent 4-5 years re-wiring my brain so I could become normal.
@iLikesFenders Measured confidence (not cocky) goes a long way. Women are attracted to (among other things) confident men. They can smell a desperate man a mile away (and are repulsed by them). This is easier said than done, obviously. It took me, as I said, 4 to 5 years to act and behave somewhere in the vicinity of normality.
Apart from that, women are attracted to money, status and looks, but if you don't have those, then measured confidence alone should get you somewhere.
Not all women are attracted to only money, status, and looks. A lot of women yes, but a lot of men are too, but also a lot of people are not. Confidence is something both genders look for, even if it’s different types of confidence. There are some guys who prefer “submissive” or softer women, not sure what to think of that but if both parties are okay with it, it’s fine.
Again, I’m glad you’re doing better, but you’re still putting yourself in a narrow view of women. I know plenty of college educated women who are dating pretty “regular” guys who don’t have a higher education like them, aren’t the most attractive, and not rich. And they love each other and gonna get married soon. Because for most folks, they just wanna build a life and go through the currents with someone they really like as a person, someone that makes them laugh and feel okay on rough days. If you wanna be rich and famous, props to you, just don’t let it get to your head or go overboard with it to impress a girl, cuz most women are really just like most men, trynna make it thru life. If the type of girl(s) you’re trynna impress only cares about looks and status, I would consider introspecting on what you’re looking for in a woman because chances are both of you have a pretty shallow mindset and are possibly headed for a life that may be opulent but full of disaster and dissatisfaction. Sometimes in certain cultures, women feel a lot of pressure from the family to look for someone of better status, but it usually results in a pretty unhappy marriage.
I’m saying all this as a regular, hardworking, average woman myself. I know I’m probably what the incels would call “Becky” but in fact I don’t rlly care as much as I used to; when I do find someone, I just hope they’re kind, loyal, and make me laugh. Peace
@@anonymouse7773 I am married now so the dating game is over for me. And even if I divorce, I'll never go back to it.
@Stale Bagelz Yeah, it's to secure their future. That's logical.
Literally the best introduction to Hegel on the internet.
Not really
This was a wonderful video! So many great thoughts brought up and minds showcased. Keep up the great content!
Really love these videos, they touch upon the fascinating interplay between philosophy and politics that I've never really seen in such a well-presented way (apart from Zizek maybe). Looking forward to the next one!
D I A L E C T I C S
But its not dialectical materialism
@LordMIGtau ave
D I A N E T I C S
@LordGroyper Thesis and antithesis....
The very last points you made were beautifully stated and profound. It brings to mind the importance of supporting the work of teachers (especially of young children) to facilitate and guide the recognition, in students, of the equal humanity across lines of difference. Thank you.
I agree Amiel Wayne and would extend your comment to include the work of parents engaging in their children's education. A great video.
These videos are very well made, well done. Subscribed.
Fantastic video. Opened my eyes on why I really need to read Hegel asap. Thank you!
Oh boy this comment section is gonna be fun~
Yup.
It is fun.
What's there to attack what? MGTOW is about finding the ugly truth about everything. What's wrong with that?
Some Asshole
Honestly, you cannot strive to be your absolute best when you're being distracted by women.
I remember an interview were Mike Tyson said he abstained from sex for 5 yrs during his prime and he also contribute part of his downfall to chasing women and partying. The other half is implied to be the death of his mentor/trainor Cus D'Amato who constantly reminded him to have a strong moral character. His lack of discipline around women and the degenerate behavior he engaged in was his downfall.
Having a girlfriend is cool and all but a man must know how to be a man with or without a female by his side.
Being male and having a woman does not define manhood.
Some Asshole I’ve never had a problem attracting women. MGTOW for me has been awareness of some of the ways i’ve been manipulated. Of COURSE there is a difference between Incel and MGTOW. No one deserves sex. Just like any movement, there are extremists. There are plenty of genuine, good women out there, just as there are men who are awful.
You are absolutely one of the best channels on UA-cam. I look forward to becoming a patron in the next 30 days or so.
I'm getting more interested by the day to read some Hegel.
Thanks for explaining part of his philosophy. I appreciate it greatly.
The first good (and actually amazing and helpful) description of any of Hegel's ideas
Oooh, lordship and bondage. Thanks for the suggestion.
Like I said, there’s a lot of good information you can learn from old books.
video is honestly amazing, i was never able to understand all this hegelian stuff when explained to me by other people
Man, you're video are so atmospheric and interesting, i love it so much. Big respect from Ukraine!
This is one of the left leaning channels I truly love. Not judgmental but with a clear opinion, very informative, and philosophy-fueled. Keep it up!
I have been reading through Hegel myself (phenomenology), now a bit in. It is a very fun read; like a crossword puzzle the size of a book.
@Comrade Dan Reading Engels's Anti-Dühring teaches you more than reading all of Marx.
This is why I subbed
Nicely done and very informative thanks for posting this
I absolutely love your channel as I'm currently discovering philosophy and getting more and more into it. Would *love* more on Hegel (in general too, any Hegel at all is fascinating af)
N-nice try JIDF, but it was because I was circumcised that no girl would talk to me.
Well stop wearing the "Cut for her Comfort" T-shirt and they won't know until it's too late.
Now I get the deeper meaning when Protoman says to MegaMan "A hero is just a man who knows he is free".
This was a great video, thank you for making this.
This was pretty amazing... The same concept can be used to explain any other negative -isms and people that ascribe to them. Wow, great explanation
Magnum Opus video. Wow congrats man! This may be therapeutic to incels.
I really wish people didnt bully incels as much as they do. They are deeply troubled people that need help, not ridicule.
I second that - potential can be found in anyone, as misguided as they are. Nobody is irredeemable nor beyond salvation, least of all someone who does nothing worse than post spiteful diatribes online.
@TomeOfBattle Indeed they would achieve nothing, as they tend to be carried out usually by just one person per incident. One arrow is easily broken (though a whole bundle of them, not so easily). One person is easily arrested & imprisoned & lacks the charisma or following of Hong Xiuquan, the leader of the Taiping Rebellion in mid-19th-century China. And even that conflict, despite lasting 14 years & leaving 20 million people dead, did not accomplish its goal of overthrowing the Qing Dynasty (though imperial China did collapse half a century later).
True. They're the butt of jokes and ridicule from feminists and jocks. This only sends them deeper into hell.
@@briangoodman1779 Exactly.
@Brandon Willey That is all true. I think though that it'll take a large downturn in the economy before 'some sort of Hitler' will arise. Once mass unemployment becomes the norm, then every man and his dog with a grievance will be out for some kind of revenge.
Extremely good introduction to the relevance of Hegel to these issues.
Very interesting presentation. I studied Hegel but was not explicitly aware of this aspect of his philosophy. It definitely raises my esteem for him.
I dont feel like an Incel and i dont identity as one. But i feel this way.
These are consequences of the Alienation of Capitalism. En.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienation
Read more at marxists.org/archive
@@Ben-ek1fz incels blame themselves.
I really appreciated the thought and effort that was put into this video. It's very informative and fascinating. Understanding incels can help us help them in helping themselves.
This is the first video I’ve ever seen of you, and it’s good enough to make me subscribe:)
This was great thank you, the concept of freedom as intersubjective is hella interesting to chew
Another great video. I always find your videos interesting and well written. However, I do suspect that they could and perhaps should, be just a touch longer. Just a little. I don't know quite in what way, but I'm often left wanting just a little more detail or more examples or exploration of applicability. Maybe just a little conclusion at the end to tie up the ideas?
Otherwise, great :)
Satyasya Satyasya
keeps us coming back ;)
This reminded me of Chomsky on language., He believes language and consciousness are internal. That language is just a consequence of conscious thought, not the other way around. Basically, that we developed language to sort our thoughts out, not to speak to others. Speech was just a consequence of our psychological development.
What do you think of that, folks?
That's a very interesting take. Where could i look for more details on that?
The question is how were thoughts inteneralised and made sense of before language. Or was all action and behaviour purely instinctual before language?
@Stale Bagelz Even most things I cant put into words can still technically put into words, maybe just not to an extent that feel satisfactory. I usually think of that phrase as an expression and not as literally not being able to put things into words. I think complex emotions are possible without language, but complex thoughts and cognitions are a completely different beast.
it makes sense, look at the people who aren't able to think in words and images, rather in abstract concepts, yet they're able to communicate properly because, well, they're average human beings
The thing is how does one hold a symbol constant without affirmation from others? Like say, “I want to eat, because I am hungry”’, how would one hold the first instance of “I” the same way as the second instance of “I”, Or further reference of “I” in the distant future? I think language arised as a means to communicate the symbols we have in our minds to establish as constant for convenience .
This was a fresh perspective on the issue. I will have to think about it. Thank you.
Damn, this channel is gold.
Destroying the extreme aversion to platonic physical contact between men (caused by the toxic combination of misogyny & homophobia) would be a great first step in rehabilitating incels. If men stopped thinking that hugging or otherwise touching their male friends is gay, they'd be in a happier place - touch starvation can FEEL like it's sex that you need because the need for human contact becomes so severe, and sex is the most intense physical contact you can have. I've been lonely like some of these men were, and it can be quite literally physically painful to experience that kind of isolation and touch-starvation. Not being able to touch another human being is poison to people of all genders, but because women aren't forbidden from touching their female friends by ass-backwards social norms, they don't develop the kind of agonizing isolation that some men do. I don't agree with incel views at all, but I sympathise with their pain. It sucks to be alone.
Why not both?
Wrong, men actually need sex to feel like there is any meaning to their existence and daily struggles. It's just a fact. When I haven't had sex for an extended period of time I feel incredibly miserable and it doesn't matter how much I touch and hug others. I was never as depressed in my life as when I broke up with my first girlfriend and didn't have sex for a year or something afterwards. I didn't have any motivation to do anything at all. It wasn't because I was emotionally hurt either, I got over that pretty quickly.
Nuclearcx i havent had sex in six years.
Im 28.
It doesnt bother me (that i notice).
I go to work, excercise, have hobbies....
Sex and chasing sex gets in the way of those things i enjoy.
@Akii Wink Actually, let's really think about how the prostitutes feel. In an ethical arrangement that was greenlit by the State, all prostitutes would work at will, most likely in a centralized, heavily regulated brothel with documentation, and regular health screenings. At said brothel, employees would mingle with guests in the public area, where both would size each other up physically and socially before making a decision to head to the private area. There, prices, durations, and services would be negotiated, a general agenda for the interaction would be drawn up for clarity. Then the pair (or more if you're feeling adventurous) head to a room and do their thing. If at any time either party wants to back out, they use the safeword and if that doesn't work, security is called from just outside. What I'm getting at is there's absolutely 0 chance for any breeches of consent during the transaction. "But gatfatf, isn't the presence of money in exchange for the uber special experience of sex with another person tainting to the entire interaction?" Isn't that a personal issue? And why on Earth would someone freely choose this career path of they felt that was the case? And doesn't literally everyone else who works for a living have to make the same decision? What's so special about prostitution?
@Akii Wink But isn't that your heteronormative bias showing? That only men would pay for sex, with only women? And is sex and intimacy the same thing? Why can't they be two separate entities? It seems your under the impression that all sex outside of a traditional relationship is inherently immoral, to which I must point out the common practice of hooking up, because like men, sometimes women just purely want sex. And there's nothing wrong with that, when both people have mutual respect for each other and appropriate expectations. You'll just have to accept the fact that some people are perfectly capable of being alone romantically but still participate in physical pleasures. Because that's exactly what people are meant to be buying from prostitutes of every gender.
When you say "throughout modern history there has been two opposing ways of viewing the individual" you exclude other actually fairly prominent breakdowns of the individual such as Derek Parfit's work, but even more so eastern philosophers who think the self is an illusion, in fact Derek Parfit's view and the eastern views (secular incantations of Buddhism) seem even more coherent and much more comprehensive deconstructions of the individual than either Descartes or Hegel's views. I understand that this is outside the videos theme, but your phrasing from the outset would lead viewers to believe that those two ways of viewing the individual are the be all end all ways.
Buddhism isn’t modern, it’s ancient.
@@indraotsutsuki9080 Yeah that really depends on the school of Buddhism you're talking about. Sanbo Zen is modern with its own unique takes. Derek Parfit once again is also modern, significant, not mentioned in the false binary. This is the classic tradition of "ignore what eastern philosophy has to say/offer"
@@tomcollector9594 But it doesn't matter how recent certain Buddhist schools are, their rejection of the self is still ancient. And note the phrase "throughout history". That excludes Parfit's view as well, as his view is pretty recent. Also, the other key word is "opposing". Buddhist view of the individuum is not opposing Hegel or Descarts position. Different is not the same as opposite. So it makes sense to exclude them. Lastly, I don't think it was meant to be a comprehensive list.
@@BasicSpace42 Yeah your points are well put. The only thing I would disagree with is that it is not true that certain contemporary lines of Buddhist thought can be said to reject the self in anywhere near the same way as ancient ones do (such that they are mutually contradictory and don't even reject all or the same aspects of the self). So saying those contemporary theories are ancient just the cause the word Buddhism has stayed in place seems ridiculous. But other than that, very good points.
This was a fantastic video. I haven't gotten into Hegel much as I haven't seen how his ideas were necessarily relevant given more contemporary thought. This changed that a bit.
Excellent content man keep it up, you have earned another sub
I'm extreme left winger but please be aware that girls actually do have extreme preference for rare strong jawlines and that they do lie that they are not VERY attracted to heigh/Muscles. Those preferences are very strong and they can't be compared with any male preference, big boobs are also a preference (Sercret one) but they don't come that close.
It's funny, I find big boobs pretty repulsive
This was super interesting. 🧐
john doe if anything id say the culture in some middle eastern and indian places are more conducive to raising incels than the genes. Kinda hard not to become an incel when your raised by a father who needed to be arranged a 12 yr old wife to know a woman and a mother whobwas forced to know only one thing. Expose yourself to different ideas more and youll break free eventually
@Pussy Slayer You know, after having heard men talk about women the charming way you guys do for their entire lives, it's absolutely remarkable that so many women are made uneasy by the advances of men. I don't get it. Maybe women just aren't wired for sex?
@Thot Slayer God, I wonder why those "real women" aren't into you? Maybe it's the shape of your skull? Couldn't possibly be the psychopathy lol
Stop wanting to be a real man.
@john doe Are you even Indian ? Becoming white ain't gonna change shit. Better believe that!
@john doe lol you definitely ain't Indian. No Indian in his right mind would say that. I am proud of skins regardless of females accepting me. Your some troll I can see that
This channel needs more views, v interesting
I know that this might not get to you, but dope video!!! I'm reading hegel right now, and have a bachelor's in philosophy, which makes me so happy to see hegel done justice! Also this form of dialogue follows what I'm thinking about doing with my degree, essentially applying philosophy to current issues in a way that both doesn't reduce philosophy to a point where it loses necessary nuance, and makes it more available/relatable to the public.
Anyway thank you!! There's too little in the way of well done philosophy videos, keep it up!
By defining and labelling “incels” young men who fit the description now have an outlet in which to justify themselves (“women are bad”) and perpetuate their slave-morality instead of correcting their situation. These sort of guys are also now stigmatized by the culture at large just for carrying themselves in a certain way. My fear is that this will only perpetuate a vicious cycle. What these guys need are healthy outlets through which they can obtain self-confidence.
Exactly, people tend to throw the word incel but they don't want reform, I fear calling them a looser actually validates them and then you get Elliot Rodgers.
It's self-applied remember
@Zack Morley Yes, beyond the comment and your analysis to be truthful, even the statistics regarding the hypergamy that the incels make of them themselves as spokespersons are incorrect and too dogmatic, 90% of the couples I see around have the same faces to say. What then let's say that hypergamy exists and is disastrous, this would not explain why dating apps continue to exist. I don't think tinder is happy to have only privileged customers at the risk of losing revenue in terms of money. So the more you show that you find love for everyone, the more you can make money
However face 1 to face 2 look a like is an observation i made, litereally seeing is beliving
@@jgeer5813 It's also used as an insult and a sticking label used by other people
Some reddit incels really do worry me, I wish they find videos like these and pull themself out of that dangerous way of thinking.
I saw the title and instantly subscribed.
Holy shit I have never thought about it this way. Thank you so much for this video, I will further research this hegelian notion of self-consciousness and interpersonal validation. Really good content