Fiio M17 - A Behemoth In Its Niche
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2023
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TIME STAMPS:
Basic Information - 2:05
Fiio Music App - 11:00
Third Party Software - 14:20
Importing Music - 15:28
Accessories - 17:51
Real-World Use - 19:04
Comparison To Alternatives - 31:30
Final Thoughts - 36:50
MUSIC USED:
Losing My Mind - NEFFEX
No Turning Back - NEFFEX
All My Thanks - Read Mathis
Sunshine - The Mini Vandals
Stacy and George - The Mini Vandals
Bright Eyed Blues - Unicorn Heads
This Is Not A Christmas Song - NEFFEX
Wrong - VYEN
Scanline - Mike Relm
We March Together - Patrick Patrikios
Good Times - Patrick Patrikios
Running Out - Patrick Patrikios
Chilltronic - RKVC
Dove Love - Quincy’s Moreira
Auld Lang Syne - DJ Williams
Ince & Fire - King Canyon
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Great video, Thanks! This is all useful information that is not easy to find anywhere else.
Coaxial and usb input/output this is the info I was looking all over UA-cam for. Thanks for sharing.
At this point, your phone and one of those bulky portable dac amps will make an equivalent experience.
I did exactly that with my Woo WA11 and WA8.
Does the colour changing function for quality also work with e.g. tidal or just in the internal fiio music app?
Because mine stays blue, eventuell in tidal mqa titles?
What is your hardware/audio switcher you're using on the desk to compare the two DAPs?
It’s a passive aux switchbox. You can find any number of them for less than $20.
Bought one this week.
39:50 Mine.
Would you say there are notable differences between a cheap apple dongle dac and a DAP / DAC of this price range?
My main usage is iems, I want to get to listen to different sources but it's not easy here, and i'm skeptical of the claim that there is substantial audible differences.
It’s POSSIBLE that a cheap dongle may be faulty and induce audible distortion or noise, and it’s also POSSIBLE that a dongle Dac might not be neutral. But modern devices are unlikely to be noticeably different in these regards. All this commentary among audiophiles that they hear differences is either a false impression because they don’t do proper A/B tests, or their headphones don’t get sufficient power for peak performance between devices they’re listening to. It’s very rare indeed in my experience to find any actual differences among these solid state devices.
@@NoThemeReviews Thank you for the reply.
I'm just wondering will it ever see updates to its OS.
Well…consider the M15. A few firmware updates, but nothing to dramatically change the operation.
It is an expensive device but priced a fair bit less than other companies flag ship. Offers more than most of them too
The battery replacement issue on all of these devices is something that most reviewers don't even bring up. They're too busy regurgitating marketing specs and colorful adjectives for sound impressions to bother. The simple fact is that rechargeable batteries degrade over time. Having easy user access to replace a battery SHOULD have been implemented here, given the size and price tag. But alas...no one seems to care about this. Especially manufacturers.
Manufacturers are eventually trying to make repairproof and battery replacement proof gears and youtubers and consumers are shouting "bravo bravo" 🙂
Having dealt with many companies in the last 5 years, I can confirm that some companies put pressure on reviewers to make positive reviews. I get several emails every few months from brands (usually ChiFi) asking to collaborate; and when we're hashing out details, they drop requirements like giving them first right of refusal on the video content, emphasizing certain aspects that to me don't make any sense and can't be verified, or trying to force me into their fee-sharing programs.
I know many in the community always doubts reviewers intentions, and I think that doubt is to a degree justified. With all the pressure by companies, the desire to get free gear, to get more views, to make money from UA-cam as a reviewer's primary income source...yeah...it's a wonder any reviewer says anything remotely negative or critical of products.
Especially in the audiophile hobby.
Battery is indeed an issue when it needs to be replaced.
Pocket sized I see… 😂
Requires very deep pockets.
No thank you. The price is exorbitant, its large, and it has an overheating problem. I purchased the M11 plus today. Its good enough I hope.
I doubt it actually has liquid cooling. The tear down video doesn’t show anything that would be the VU cooling Fiio mentions in their marketing.
I dont know where daps go from here. They have to start trying to do something new. Having the latest android version isn't enough to spend this amount of money
You would spend this amount of money to buy a transportable device built for raw power that you could bring to/from the office, specifically to drive the top end of power hungry (likely planar) headphones:
- Abyss 1266
- Susvara
- Dan Clark Audio Stealth
This reviewer didn’t test any of these; he only tested lesser headphones and even iems that didn’t require this type of power to drive them. I mean you can drive iems and less power hungry headphones with this, but why would you? Use an iPhone or lesser dap instead.
A better test would be to A/B any of the above power hungry headphones with the M17 vs any of the other players he compared it to. I can tell you straight off the bat that the Sony would not be able to drive any of the 3 sufficiently by itself. Sure, the layman may say that as long as the headphones are loud enough they are “sufficiently powered”. However, there’s a difference between sufficiently powered and well powered, which translates to these power hungry headphones getting better sound and a higher score on their overall sound possibility score - 5/10 vs 8/10 or higher.
Try this test and you’ll find out.
Cheers
The reason I didn't test the Abyss, Susvara, or Stealth is because I don't have them. But I DID test other planars--including the Avantone Planar, LCD-2, LCD-3, Argon, T60rp. So, it's not as if all I did was test low-impedance, high efficiency dynamic drivers.
As far as the Abyss is concerned, the recommended power for that headphone (by the company) is similar to what Fostex says regarding the T50rp. Dan Clark doesn't suggest anything remotely like multi-watts of power for the Stealth, and in fact says that 500mw is plenty. I seriously doubt that the Susvara actually needs more than 1 watt, but I'll grant some people believe it needs a nuclear power plant.
So, even with your example, there's some doubt about the need for uber-powerful DAPs. Of course, you can't get the M17's purported max power unless it's plugged into DC. So, it's not really a "portable" device.
As I said in this review, the M17 is a niche player. I'm sure it makes sense for some people--but not for the vast majority of audiophiles.
@@NoThemeReviews respectfully, the reason why you would need more than the “recommended power” is because if you are playing music then you aren’t just playing 1 sine wave that always draws the same amount of power from whatever device is driving the headphones you are using. Instead, the music you are playing will draw different amounts of power depending on the section of the musical passage that is playing.
The bigger and more dynamic the section, the greater the power the music will draw from the device powering it when this section is played. This is why abyss in their videos generally recommends throwing as much power as you can when using their headphones. More power = more headroom = a lesser chance of the music sounding flat when it gets busy and draws the most power.
This also gets into differences in recordings - I’m sure that as a reviewer you’ve experienced the need to turn up or turn lower the device powering your headphones depending on the music currently playing. The fact is that some music was mastered in such a way that it is louder or quieter than others, and the result is the need for more power as you turn up the volume to hear it.
Both of these reasons are exactly why you would ideally want to throw as much power as possible at headphones, especially those that are power hungry. Sure, you “can” listen to music on power hungry headphones without throwing a “nuclear reactor” at them. However, these power hungry headphones WILL benefit from them based upon the music playing.
@@NoThemeReviews Then comes the question of “picky headphones”. Putting power requirements aside, headphones come in 2 flavors - picky headphones, and not picky headphones. The Focal Headphones (Elegia, Radiance, and Stellia) are not picky headphones because they generally will sound good with most of the things that you use to play them, and there isn’t too much of a difference when you try switching from one device to power these to another. Sure the sound will change, but it won’t change drastically. For planars, the same is true for the Meze empyrean, and to a lesser extent the he1000, and the abyss Diana - they generally will sound good on what you use them on.
In contrast, picky headphones will not sound good on everything. Call it the design of the drivers, the tonality of the headphones, magic etc, the fact is that you actually CAN hear differences in amps that you plug these headphones into. Falling into this category are the abyss Diana TC, the abyss 1266, the susvara, Dan Clark Stealth, and Ether CX.
Of the headphones you listed, I’ve only seen the Argons appear in lists of picky headphones. I’ve heard that they sound sibilant on sources that don’t match well with them. I’m not sure about the T60 rps, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they are picky since I know for a fact that the T50rps are picky and will sound differently based on different sources and more so if they are modded (Alpha Dog, Alpha Prime).
If anything, it appears that the majority of the headphones you’ve been testing fall into the not picky category. This is likely why you haven’t been able to hear too much difference between players. Borrow/purchase another picky headphone and repeat these tests. If one of these happens to be known as being power hungry as well then you’ll see even more of a variance in performance. Like I said before, the Sony dap definitely won’t be able to power any of the 3 headphones i mentioned above.
@@NoThemeReviews Finally, in terms of use case, I’ll repeat what I said above. You would pay this amount of money for a transportable device that can output the raw power necessary to actually drive pretty much all headphones on the market, taking into account the different power drawn by the music from said device based on what is playing.
The list of headphones the m17 can power grows only larger when it is plugged in. The only question is whether or not it pairs well with any picky headphones that you may be using.
Also, note how I’m referring to this as transportable device - it’s a brick of a nuclear reactor that you “can” use portably if you want to. This leads me to agree with Zios from Z reviews in his assessment that the m17 is for the minimalist that does not want to compromise on music and wants an all in 1 movable device.
For example, maybe you don’t want to keep an expensive amp on your desk at the office, and you would like to have the ability to take it home with you for safe keeping, and the ability to use it on the train. It’s basically a powerful top tier amp that you can move portably if you want or need to. I agree that it’s a niche product, but it’s likely the best in this niche since everything else that can move is less powerful.
There is no audio quality or signature difference beetween any 300$ - 3000$ DAPs 😂😂😂😂😂 there is no performance difference beetween Ferrari and Ford 😅
Nice. Compare apples to rockets. Funny how sound quality of more and more expensive DAPs keeps getting better even though the recordings you’re using don’t.
I had the paw6000 and the M17 ,and saying that there is no difference in audio caracter or quality is the not truth, the 6000 is much laid back sounding, please don t state untruth conclusions, maybe the difect is in your comparison device spliter that you use
Considering I do proper, volume-matched A/B tests and don’t have a bias towards any device, I am confident in my conclusions. Those who keep saying that these DAPs have different sound signatures refuse to do any proper testing, and make no effort to determine why they think they might be hearing differences.
For example, you may have felt one was more “laid back” because of improper volume-matching, not using an A/B switch, stopping and starting without listening at exactly the same audio at the same spots, removing your headphones or IEMs between listening to one device to the other, relying entirely on memory to determine any differences, etc.
You guys who claim there are differences need to stop saying anyone who disagrees with you is lying. Spend more time learning how to do tests and being skeptical/critical, and less time denigrating those who don’t buy your beliefs.
@@NoThemeReviews the problem is your switch, it makes everything sounds the same
🥹 Very cute. Pray tell, how does a PASSIVE switch make everything sound the same? I know this is the go-to nonsense many subjectivists lean on when they don’t know what else to say, but where exactly is your science-backed source?
@@NoThemeReviews passive but has wires inside it and capacitors and switchs......cables are passive too iems are passive.....headphones are passive...
So, you don’t have any science-backed information that corroborates this subjectivist myth. You DO understand that these types of passive switch boxes have already been measured for any affect on the electrical signals, with negative results? Moreover, your argument fails to explain how it is remotely possible for two-in your opinion-gear that sound obviously differently to, despite their different sound signatures, sound exactly alike. The passive switch box has some unknown ability to take divergent signals and make them sound the same? You’d think professionals who use these types of switch boxes would have raised concerns about that if it were true. But, of course, that’s not true and you’re just reaching for vague ideas.
You are not going to change my mind. You should stop and move on. I encourage you to spend time researching all of this outside of forums. There are abundant scientific articles, both complex and simply stated, which help explain this stuff. I’m sure you’re an intelligent person; go do independent research and next time you have multiple devices, put effort into doing proper volume matched A/B tests.
Extremely unethical indeed.
?
The amount of flaws in your assessment an audio product is unfortunate. Clearly this is a trend with all your videos and you know it is since you disable dislikes completely, you should really consider trying your hand at anything else since this line of work is definitely not your forte.
😂 How enlightening! By “flaws” you obviously mean you have an opposite view of what I said. By “trend” with all my videos you mean you haven’t watched all my videos and like to make blanket statements. By jumping to conclusions about my reason for disabling the like counter, you mean you didn’t bother to watch the video I made clearly explaining why I did it. And by trying my hand at something else, you mean you think you have a right to denigrate and ridicule anyone else whom you disagree with.
Brilliant. I’ll pass on your invitation. Have a wonderful audiophile day! 🫡