I kinda like the idea of it just being one of those animals that simultaneously fits in multiple categories and denies all categories, or ends up needing one all to itself, like a platypus. I imagine in-universe that the idea of a squidshark being a leviathan is heavily debated and controversial, just like the 'is pluto a planet' thing
Maybe there’s disagreement on what constitutes a Leviathan, like how there’s still some disagreement on what constitutes life. It could be like viruses where depending on your definition it may be alive, dead or like ‘eh sorta kinda both…?’
Fun fact: Pluto was declassified as a planet out of sheer laziness of not wanting a bunch of planets. So they changed the definition of planet to exclude the mass of extra planets. Gotta love humans
@@Skullhawk13 no there is an actual metric. A planet needs orbit a star, be spherical, and have enough gravity to clear its orbit of similarly sized objects. Pluto runs into a lot of stuff because it isn't big enough to clear them out, not a planet.
That’s an after the fact definition that only came after they found a lot of Pluto-like planets. It’s a statement of opinion that they declassified Pluto rather than have so many planets out of laziness. But it is actually true Pluto was considered a planet. This isn’t a “Tomato is a vegetable too” situation. Literally they’d never said it had to clear its orbit of other objects of similar size prior to the discovery that led to Pluto’s declassification.
Yeah, it checks out. They're like some aquatic mix of stoat and badger when it comes to just ruining anything's day and hitting way out of their weight class.
While some of the more spicy creatures like the Boneshark might challenge that definition, I like it. With Humanity having a presence on who-knows-how-many planets in the galaxy, having a universal definition of "these things will fuck your seatruck/land truck up" could be useful. The Squidshark ekes it's way in with it's proven ability to crack seatruck screens and EMP your ride.
They don't even grab onto the prawn, so I would say this makes more sense They do a little too much damage though seeing how the prawn suit is supposed to be like capable of withstanding massive creatures, I feel like it would have made more sense to focus of the electrocution part
@@Frigorito3975 You right, tbh I feel like the devs would have been better off if they just enlarged EVERYTHING including the map by just like 10%... The Squid Sharks and chilli shrimp would have been alot more scary if they where a just smidge bigger, and if they did more damage to the truck. Both of those are easy changes, its painful the dev's didnt just do that and left them feeling weak, their awesome designs.
@@AlexHonger-fj3nx i do agree although; i do think that the shrimp is a really well made creature and should stay as it is. however its being the only real leviathan you see aside from the shadow leviathan, so its pretty much overused. The squidshark could have been fitted for the lilypad isles as maybe an overgrown version as the "leader of the pack", but now im just theorizing ':D
Another example of leviathans getting preyed on is sea treaders. If they had no predators then they wouldn’t bother kicking the player if they got too close, and they have thick armour to protect them.
These might be the features that make them no longer good prey for whatever would otherwise try to hunt them. Kind of like turtles or porcupines, their defense mechanisms eliminate a large group of potential predators, but just because they aren't hunted by them right now doesn't mean they can get rid of said defensive features since obviously that would make them prey again.
It can be for creatures like sandshark. On earth we have cookie cutter sharks as example. For a creature as slow as sea treader, shell seems to be a necessity since any predator could get a bite of their flesh and run for it.
Unless Evolution works in a completely different way in the alien planet, armor is developed before size. The Sea treader might have just evolved from a smaller organism that needed a shell to survive
@@raffaelegiacomaniello3415 that's just normal evolution. Also the mechanism of evolution is so universal that it applies to any information that can be reproduced, modified and selected, alien organisms evolve in the same way even if they use a completely different kind of genetics.
I have a theory that this PDA was written before the Squid Sharks design was finalized, maybe the Squid Shark was originally gonna be bigger than it is now.
It was, the original squid shark was going to be around 20-30 Meters and was like that in the beta build. I think when they finished designing the biomes, that they didn’t think the squid shark would makes sense with those smaller areas and decided to shrink it. I am pretty sure though that they forgot to change the entry and that’s why it still says levitation class predator. Sorry for the long explanation
BZ was supposed to be a short campaign dlc, it got made into seperate game because of hubris, and had to scale things up... IF it was going to be bigger then, like make BZ a separate game, the BZ Des in charge of the final project f*cked it up...
Yeah but also in the pdf entry is written 11m so they finalized the pda with 11m. They also wrote on the smaller scale which with 20-30 Meters makes them as big or bigger than sea treaders
Headcannon: There are leviathan sized squidsharks out there, the big ones just go out in the void and the they use Sector 0 as a breeding ground. Kinda like how ghost leviathans use the crater to lay eggs. Hol-Lee-Chit! I think this may be the most likes I've ever gotten. Thanks!
@@MinoriGamingThe issue is, I swear the PDA, or some other in game source mentions there being far larger creatures in the void, my best guess is that those creatures are too far away for any sensors. So the ghost leviathans. Or ghost chalicerates are just a gameplay thing, to prevent the player from escaping.
@@iAletho how? by waiting 300 years in a completly decimated planet, then when @Fulgrim2 finnaly shows up throw a bomb at him, and proceed to trash talk him so hard that his ego never recovers?
They actually fill the same niche as the crabsquid and even have the same disabling electrical attack (not to mention having "squid" in the name). Although I think the Squidshark is a bit bigger.
I honestly love the Squidsharks! They are silly little guys and I am happy you can find eggs for it and have them in a tank! Just a lovely addition for Below Zero in my book.
What is prove it isn't really a leviathan. Because we can't collect eggs of leviathan creators, because the devs what the leviathans to be speciale and not something you can just put in a aquarium.
Honestly, I'd refer to organisms like the Squidshark as a "Pseudo-Leviathan", a creature that shows *some* leviathan-class traits, but not enough to be a leviathan-class creature. Like the Titan Holefish for example, its essentially a supersized holefish, and could be on the same level of "pseudo-leviathan" as the Glow Whale and Reefback in the leviathan class, a harmless gentle giant...to us. As for the frozen/extinct leviathans, maybe Royal or Kaiju-class Leviathans? Or something simple like Super Leviathans lol
"pseudo-leviathans" does sound like a term scientists would use, and it makes sense. Gonna start referring to squidsharks and some others (like sea snakes, for example) as that now.
0:53 my personal belief is that a leviathan is defined as dwarfing the vast majority of other creatures within the region they inhabit aka it’s not how big it is fullstop it’s how big it is in comparison to the other creatures in their chosen habitat
It might be a case of the squid sharks WE see don't classify as leviathan, that the species overall size range dips a bit into the smaller end of leviathan scale but it's not classified as one for us because none we would see are in that range. Think of the dramatic size difference between the standard and void Chelicerates
The sea treaders are not noted as being on the smaller end of the leviathan scale, and given the context of the squidshark we can probably assume that they fit comfortably in the leviathan scale and the squidshark is at the bottom end of it.
Maybe the squidsharks we see are juveniles? The sea emperor juveniles are pretty small, possibly our size when they hatch. It could stand to reason then that the squidsharks need some time to grow. We might not see the full sized ones since they're out in the void, dead or alive who's to say.
That would explain there Appearance in the deep twisty bridges and the places like the Lili pad zone that has a lot of cracks they could potentially be the super predator of the micro biomes
Great theory, but I reckon the pda would point that out tbh. I mean, if it's good enough to discover how old (approximately ofc) a fossil is, (yes Im assuming it'd still be using carbon dating as we do irl, but in labs instead) from just a little scan of it, surely it could detect whether a creature is juvenile or not
There's clearly an in-universe biological classification called "leviathan", and squidshark is just one of its smaller members; there seems to be a specific size range as the PDA mentions that it had to be adjusted upwards for the emperor Leviathan. It may not technically fit the gameplay role of a leviathan, but we're talking about what scientists would classify it as.
I don't think it's a biological classification necessarily but more of a practical one. Similar to the race category as used today, it often coincides with broad biological traits but its usefulness breaks down when you get into the details.
The PDA doesn't sort it as a leviathan, it doesn't even have leviathan in the name. Below zero has many PDA entries that are lackluster or rushed, I'd assume that they just threw down the term and left it. Not a leviathan, just a bad PDA entry.
In this sense there’s probably some weird biological reasoning for it being classed that way. Like how bananas are technically berries but you don’t see the reason why unless you dive in DEEP. But, I feel like having that sort of reasoning in a game like this is kind of a cop out answer and hope it’s not the case
blueblue the banana reference is a bad analogy. Wild bananas make it very obvious how and why bananas are berries: they have seeds lined up all throughout the fruit flesh with a tough rind on the outside to protect them, just as we see with fruits like watermelon. Modern bananas obfuscate this anatomy by genetically removing the bananas ability to create seeds within its flesh.
I myself would love these creatures in a future documentary: Cuddlefish Peeper Architects The peeper leviathan (just kidding) Traivelle (Maybe) gryptosuchus Lavalizard Scrapped sand leviathan And (titan) holefish I love your videos and I hope you see this!
I mean, it does say "A leviathan class PREDATOR" Not just a leviathan, being able to prove this point further with it being in the "CARNIVORE" category and not in the "LEVIATHAN" category. Which would mean it can hunt like a leviathan, it just simply isn't classified as one. Another theory could be that it can't defend itself from other leviathan attacks well enough and could easily be killed by another leviathan, I say defend as some leviathans such as reefbacks don't attack other things and are not threatening but can still defend well against other leviathan attacks as they have defensive measure like their shell or reef on their back.
The definition of leviathans reminds me a lot of the irl definition of megafauna. Both are semi-scientific classifications. The latter's lower end varies between 2 and 1000 kg. While you would get quite a few odd looks by saying your cat is an example for megafauna, you wouldn't be completely wrong. It would be interesting to compare squidsharks to the largest creature not considered a leviathan.
personally, i would classify squidshark as somewhere between a standard carnivore, and a leviathan, due to the PDA saying its a leviathan, but its a little over half the length of the smallest leviathan: the Sea Treader a "sub-leviathan" if you will also, here is a random thing: the crabsnake is i think over 20 meters in length (20 meters is the leviathan threshold, i think) yet its not classed as a leviathan.
The squid shark may not technically be a leviathan in a physical sense, it’s still a leviathan to me, in my heart❤️ (I like squid sharks I think their design is so cool)
Leviathans original dictionary meaning means "great" or " big tail" so even if the squid sharks is smaller then its relatives its still a leviathan. Bonus fact the first ever recorded word of leviathan is a Hebrew mythology about the first ever dragon.
personally id give the squid shark an honorary leviathan tag, because it scared me a whole lot more than the chelicerate, the shoe in reaper for sub zero. the chelly just didnt impress. i know it had big shoes to fill, but i feel they did so horribly. i found myself shrugging it off, while i was much more concerned about the squid shark. but thats just me
I think that the chelicerate ai is just too wonky. It takes forever to aggro, and it loses interest after one hit. Not to mention it doesn't really sound intimidating
@@xxjoebamaxx7782 Reaper's also lose interest after a hit and take a bit too aggro. I literally just got finished exploring the wholes dunes and crash zones and I managed to slip by a majority with ease. Hell, just dodging the reaper for like 10 seconds causes it to lose aggro. Reapers AI can be pretty wonky too, especially when they start phasing through the ground lmao. Reapers aren't that scary IMO, but chelicerates still freak me out a bit. Passing through the purple vents STILL makes me nervous, especially since the Cryptosuchuses make so many red herring sounds that make it hard to tell which roar is the Cheli. Everyone's got different experiences. I especially found reaper's less scary because by the time you go anywhere they are, you should already have gear that makes them a complete joke. They are practically harmless against the prawn suit, the cyclops may as well be invisible to them, and seamoth can make them a joke too with the right equipment. I have to go to areas with the chelicerate before I have super powerful equipment, which makes them actually scary for me.
4:05 That thing (ice worm) doesn’t actually live in water, contrary to box art. A more appropriate category for this creature is “Behemoth” class, for it’s a land (or glacier) dwelling organism. As that stands, the only reason it’s classified as “leviathan” is because the PDA in Below Zero is meant to help the player survive in 4546b’s arctic waters. Therefore, it’s most likely a technical classification bug on the PDA not accounting for a giant land-dweller and shoving it into “Leviathan” for less systematic confusion.
Don't quote me but i an 90% sure that when they were released in the beta they were oveg 2x their current size and were called the squidshark leviathan but when they were made smaller the leviathan was removed from their name but i am pretty sure the pda entry is still the same
@@MlKETSU conclusion: bz story rewrite made the game rushed and have a inconclusive story. The many PDA entries contradicting each other, saying to use items not in the game (crashfish entry says to equip stasis rifle or repulsion Cannon in caves) or saying useless plants are exploitable (honeycomb fungi reapers chalet trinity barnacle) and useful plants only listed as sea or land flora (antennae plant) makes it painfully obvious. Also what happened to sams body?? Why did Sam set the bombs before curing the leviathan?? Did Parvan shoot Sam causing her to fall and activate bomb early?? did Sam have extra bacteria agent on hand before they took her robots away keeping her from the stache?? how does a robotics scientist fabricate a cure for Khara so easily from just LOCAL resources while the architects couldn't?? HOW is marg not killed by ghost leviathans but Bart and Paul die to a random reaper that somehow goes all the way to floating island and somehow breaks their base. how does marg have so many off-world plants? and you can keep going.
@@wisemysticaltreeuser "how does a robotics scientist fabricate a cure for Khara so easily from just LOCAL resources while the architects couldn't?? H" That is quite easily explained. If you have a car you can much easier reconstruct it than by not having a car and going from scratch just with an idea.
I'm pretty sure the definition means that the creature is almost unkillable by other creatures within it's habitat along with this it should also be an extremely massive organism
Dude, if it’s bigger than me, and it makes me have a constant fear of paranoia, it’s a leviathan. If not, you best believe I am getting that thermoblade!
My thought is: the PDA says they are levaithan class predators, not levaithans themselves meaning they eat like or as much as a levaithan but not clasified as a levaithan species
I think you're videos are really awesome and really underrated. Your commentary is chill, your delivery is cool and your comedic timing is on point. Really well done, you deserve way more.
The most common definition for leviathan is "a very large aquatic creature, especially a whale" and "a thing that is very large or powerful, especially a ship," so needless to say, being very BIG is one of the main requirements.
I built a base down in the deep twisty bridges and set up a guard Squidshark outside, had to get rid of him though as he kept swimming into my base 😢😢 it was awesome swimming down after a trip to see him patrolling the property line. I named him Spike 😊
Theta is 21 metres long so on a pure length basis that makes it similar in size to the Sea Treader. On that basis I would be inclinded to say yes, but weight / mass could also play an important factor!
one thing to think about is that leviathans typically are long and worm/snakelike or have tentacles. not all of them do but thats something to think of. also typically in real life and subnautica, the deeper you go the bigger the things get, the squid shark seems to stay closer to the surface than most other leviathans.
Ampeels are 20 meters long, making them more of a leviathan in terms of length than a Squidshark. However, they are not necessary at the top of the food chain, as Reefback Leviathans can spawn in the bulb zone, and Ghost Leviathans can be found in the blood kelp areas.
It's actually huge it's just that subnautica struggles with them making feel big for some od reason even though it would probably be able to swallow the player whole.
Maybe there could be a new categorization of creatures known as "Pseudo-Leviathans" where they are top of their food chains, but dont necessarily meet the requirements for a true leviathan.
Reapers are down in the caves because before the aurora there was another entrance to the lava zone there. The Sea Dragons would swim up and drag the reapers into the lava zone and kill them there.
In the biomes crabsquids live there seem to be no actual foodchain to put them at the top of Crabsquid is not an apex predator because it lacks anything that would be under it other than small fish
the Squidshark is the cougar of Subnautica, mainly because the people who called them panthers didn’t have forensics, and therefore didn’t know that it’s more related to a housecat than a lion.
I think it is a leviathan, because it says they are vast organisms at the top of their food chain, and I think squidsharks can be bigger, plus it doesn’t specify anything else
You could classify it as a semi-leviathan along with maybe warpers, I think what it really comes down to is the danger level to size ratio. Bigger, passive leviathans like the ventgarden get the edge for their size, but the squidshark and sea treaders have a 6:11 and 3:20 ratio respectively.
I think leviathan is just one of those pointless classifications likes worms or trees. It doesn't mean anything. Trees have evolved hundreds of different times independently from one another and we just call them "trees" because it's not necessary to differentiate them. Leviathans are the same thing. I think they all just evolved independently from one another. we just call them that cus when something is that dangerous, it's not longer important to classify them as different things
The main thing I noticed was that the squid shark is called a "Leviathan Class Predator," whereas the Reaper is called a "Leviathan Class Species."" These are similar terms but not interchangable. Think of it like humans and Lions. Lions are an apex predator, but humans are the apex species.
Even its name, the squidshark, doesnt sound like the name of a leviathan, it sounds like a creature akin to the crabsquid, and thats about how dangerous it is too, sure its very dangerous and can definitely kill you but it certainly doesnt feel like a leviathan class threat They only feel truly dangerous when theyre together Take the ice worm leviathan, a giant wyrm with a heated beak that can burrow through ice at high speeds And the shadow leviathan, a dangerous predator that blends into its surroundings and poses a bigger threat than normal creatures Squidshark feels more like just a dangerous creature and foesnt feel like a leviathan, its the same thing with your stalker point
Grammar can answer this one: "Leviathan-CLASS" predator. The Squidshark is NOT classed as a Leviathan, but rather, that its predator skills or "hunting" skills / aggression are akin to the Leviathan's hunting skills / aggression.
I read somewhere that leviathan-class was anything bigger than 30 meters in some dimension, and thought that was the standard. Now I'm second-guessing wherever I got that information from.
I love how barely anyone understands the sheer size of the Garg, it is said that it cannot stop growing (i’ve seen some people say that, i’m not 100% sure)
If i remember correctly, the small skeleton you find in the wrecked precursor base in the lost river is also considered a leviathan, and im pretty sure its around the same size of the squidshark, if not a bit bigger
I really hope the next game will have something like the gargantuan leviathan. Just imagine swimming in the deep, open ocean. And suddenly you see a dark shape on the edge of your vision, almost incomprehensibly massive. It really gives than otherworldly horror feel.
The working definition given regarding being at the top of their respective foodchain does sort of work. We could consider protective traits like the Chelicerate's shell to be a holdover from before they grew into their leviathan classification, traits that become unnecessary are not always lost entirely especially if they're still potentially useful for survival, such as in the case of territory clashes. That leads into an explanation for the reaper leviathan skeletons; just because they died (presumably killed by sea dragons) doesn't inherently mean it was a predator/ prey interaction, it could have been a fight over territory wherein the sea dragon killed the reaper for hunting in it's neck of the woods. If we deliberately stretch definitions to excuse the squidshark counting, you could argue that being vast as a prerequisite to being a leviathan is in relative terms; that you don't need to be huge in general, just huge in comparison to most everything else in your local ecosystem. With most leviathans they're big enough that there's no question about the label or comparisons, but with squidshark it's big but not _that_ big, but how big is it compared to the other things living around it? And how big could something reasonably be without it's size becoming a detriment in the squidshark's preferred environments? If it's at the upper end of that then there might be reasonable cause for the classification.
When I watched this vid for the first time and I noticed all the funny sounds effects and scrat screaming when godzillas pet dog makes a appearance got me rolling XD 10/10 best subnautica channel ever ❤
The problem with the armor issue is that it could easily be a leftover aspect from an ancestor who would benifit from the protection and while evolving since it was not explicitly making a difference in breeding rates it was passed on so it is not necessarily proof of predation
Here’s my headcanon: Leviathan designation is determined by overall size, place in their NATIVE food chain, and *weight* And the Squidshark comes in at the bare minimum to qualify, meeting two of the requirements
If I can run it over with a seamoth or sea truck, then it ain’t a leviathan.
This is now the official definition
yes
So a Skyray or Cave Crawler is a leviathan, then?
@@sycamorestreet7953wait. OH MY GOSH.
@@sycamorestreet7953 i once managed to run over a cave crawler with my seamoth... dont ask how
The best part of the “what is a leviathan” discussion is classifying the snow stalker as a beta-male lol
It's where it belongs :P
Agreed
Ice worm is the alpha
@@iAlethothe squid shark is a levataihan jr
i imagine it to be a very far cousin
I kinda like the idea of it just being one of those animals that simultaneously fits in multiple categories and denies all categories, or ends up needing one all to itself, like a platypus. I imagine in-universe that the idea of a squidshark being a leviathan is heavily debated and controversial, just like the 'is pluto a planet' thing
Maybe there’s disagreement on what constitutes a Leviathan, like how there’s still some disagreement on what constitutes life.
It could be like viruses where depending on your definition it may be alive, dead or like ‘eh sorta kinda both…?’
Fun fact: Pluto was declassified as a planet out of sheer laziness of not wanting a bunch of planets. So they changed the definition of planet to exclude the mass of extra planets. Gotta love humans
@@Skullhawk13 .. source? from what i know this is blatantly wrong, and i couldn't find anything on scientists changing the definition lol
@@Skullhawk13 no there is an actual metric. A planet needs orbit a star, be spherical, and have enough gravity to clear its orbit of similarly sized objects. Pluto runs into a lot of stuff because it isn't big enough to clear them out, not a planet.
That’s an after the fact definition that only came after they found a lot of Pluto-like planets. It’s a statement of opinion that they declassified Pluto rather than have so many planets out of laziness. But it is actually true Pluto was considered a planet. This isn’t a “Tomato is a vegetable too” situation. Literally they’d never said it had to clear its orbit of other objects of similar size prior to the discovery that led to Pluto’s declassification.
I always interpreted the squidsharks PDA entry to say that it was as dangerous as a leviathan, not that it was one
thats a good way to look at it!
Yeah, it checks out. They're like some aquatic mix of stoat and badger when it comes to just ruining anything's day and hitting way out of their weight class.
While some of the more spicy creatures like the Boneshark might challenge that definition, I like it.
With Humanity having a presence on who-knows-how-many planets in the galaxy, having a universal definition of "these things will fuck your seatruck/land truck up" could be useful.
The Squidshark ekes it's way in with it's proven ability to crack seatruck screens and EMP your ride.
I mean, not to robin at least, ive never seen anyone die do squid sharks
They don't even grab onto the prawn, so I would say this makes more sense
They do a little too much damage though seeing how the prawn suit is supposed to be like capable of withstanding massive creatures, I feel like it would have made more sense to focus of the electrocution part
My only problem with the squidshark is it could've easily been made a leviathan
Just needed to be a bit bigger!
facts
Maybe a few more animations too and we couldve had a solid addition to the leviathan roster
@@Frigorito3975 You right, tbh I feel like the devs would have been better off if they just enlarged EVERYTHING including the map by just like 10%... The Squid Sharks and chilli shrimp would have been alot more scary if they where a just smidge bigger, and if they did more damage to the truck. Both of those are easy changes, its painful the dev's didnt just do that and left them feeling weak, their awesome designs.
@@AlexHonger-fj3nx i do agree although; i do think that the shrimp is a really well made creature and should stay as it is. however its being the only real leviathan you see aside from the shadow leviathan, so its pretty much overused. The squidshark could have been fitted for the lilypad isles as maybe an overgrown version as the "leader of the pack", but now im just theorizing ':D
Another example of leviathans getting preyed on is sea treaders. If they had no predators then they wouldn’t bother kicking the player if they got too close, and they have thick armour to protect them.
A good point!
These might be the features that make them no longer good prey for whatever would otherwise try to hunt them. Kind of like turtles or porcupines, their defense mechanisms eliminate a large group of potential predators, but just because they aren't hunted by them right now doesn't mean they can get rid of said defensive features since obviously that would make them prey again.
It can be for creatures like sandshark. On earth we have cookie cutter sharks as example. For a creature as slow as sea treader, shell seems to be a necessity since any predator could get a bite of their flesh and run for it.
Unless Evolution works in a completely different way in the alien planet, armor is developed before size. The Sea treader might have just evolved from a smaller organism that needed a shell to survive
@@raffaelegiacomaniello3415 that's just normal evolution. Also the mechanism of evolution is so universal that it applies to any information that can be reproduced, modified and selected, alien organisms evolve in the same way even if they use a completely different kind of genetics.
I have a theory that this PDA was written before the Squid Sharks design was finalized, maybe the Squid Shark was originally gonna be bigger than it is now.
It was, the original squid shark was going to be around 20-30 Meters and was like that in the beta build. I think when they finished designing the biomes, that they didn’t think the squid shark would makes sense with those smaller areas and decided to shrink it. I am pretty sure though that they forgot to change the entry and that’s why it still says levitation class predator.
Sorry for the long explanation
Imagine how scary the lilypad area would be if they were bigger
@@dlake1224 It would be horrifying, last time I went there I think I counted 5, 6 Squid Sharks roaming around? It would be a death trap.
BZ was supposed to be a short campaign dlc, it got made into seperate game because of hubris, and had to scale things up... IF it was going to be bigger then, like make BZ a separate game, the BZ Des in charge of the final project f*cked it up...
Yeah but also in the pdf entry is written 11m so they finalized the pda with 11m. They also wrote on the smaller scale which with 20-30 Meters makes them as big or bigger than sea treaders
Headcannon: There are leviathan sized squidsharks out there, the big ones just go out in the void and the they use Sector 0 as a breeding ground. Kinda like how ghost leviathans use the crater to lay eggs.
Hol-Lee-Chit! I think this may be the most likes I've ever gotten. Thanks!
hmm
Interesting..and scary, good theory
There’s an issue with that theory and it’s that there is a spot where you can go into the void in Below Zero, and there’s Chelicerates out there.
@@MinoriGaming doresnt mean there arent any gaint squidsharks out there as well, they might just swim away further
@@MinoriGamingThe issue is, I swear the PDA, or some other in game source mentions there being far larger creatures in the void, my best guess is that those creatures are too far away for any sensors. So the ghost leviathans. Or ghost chalicerates are just a gameplay thing, to prevent the player from escaping.
Ah yes, the pint sized screaming beasts from the dark depths….
It knows how to instill fear in you Fulgrim!
You forgot to give us its background man! Need to know what makes it tick.
@@iAletho how? by waiting 300 years in a completly decimated planet, then when @Fulgrim2 finnaly shows up throw a bomb at him, and proceed to trash talk him so hard that his ego never recovers?
Heretic! Should've stayed in the Emperors light. How could you turn to Chaos?!
These replies make me feel like I missed something
The squid shark seems more similar in scale to a crabsquid or crabsnake to me, neither of which are considered leviathans
It's actually quite a bit smaller, the squidshark is 11m while the crabsnake and ampeels are 20m (but not considered leviathans)
They actually fill the same niche as the crabsquid and even have the same disabling electrical attack (not to mention having "squid" in the name). Although I think the Squidshark is a bit bigger.
@@dmatech The Squidsharks "might" be a little longer, but it's not bigger that the Crabsquids.
Should add a beta leviathan classification for these instances not gonna lie.
I honestly love the Squidsharks! They are silly little guys and I am happy you can find eggs for it and have them in a tank! Just a lovely addition for Below Zero in my book.
They're definitely unique!
What is prove it isn't really a leviathan. Because we can't collect eggs of leviathan creators, because the devs what the leviathans to be speciale and not something you can just put in a aquarium.
@@juliaboskamp9666 except you can find leviathan eggs. Glow whale eggs are found on floating lily islands, and you can put them in an aquarium
@@juliaboskamp9666Sea Emperor leviathan...
@@Wojtek1250XD still can't put them in our personal aquarium
Honestly, I'd refer to organisms like the Squidshark as a "Pseudo-Leviathan", a creature that shows *some* leviathan-class traits, but not enough to be a leviathan-class creature. Like the Titan Holefish for example, its essentially a supersized holefish, and could be on the same level of "pseudo-leviathan" as the Glow Whale and Reefback in the leviathan class, a harmless gentle giant...to us.
As for the frozen/extinct leviathans, maybe Royal or Kaiju-class Leviathans? Or something simple like Super Leviathans lol
Gargantua class
“Kaiju class” actually sounds awesome!
"pseudo-leviathans" does sound like a term scientists would use, and it makes sense. Gonna start referring to squidsharks and some others (like sea snakes, for example) as that now.
Right now they're called Apex-Class Leviathans, at least from some mods
Reminds me of how there are Pseudo-Legendary Pokemon, so I think that Pseudo-Leviathan makes so much sense!
0:53 my personal belief is that a leviathan is defined as dwarfing the vast majority of other creatures within the region they inhabit aka it’s not how big it is fullstop it’s how big it is in comparison to the other creatures in their chosen habitat
So like Hatzegopteryx in hateg island for example
It might be a case of the squid sharks WE see don't classify as leviathan, that the species overall size range dips a bit into the smaller end of leviathan scale but it's not classified as one for us because none we would see are in that range. Think of the dramatic size difference between the standard and void Chelicerates
This is actually a really good point
The sea treaders are not noted as being on the smaller end of the leviathan scale, and given the context of the squidshark we can probably assume that they fit comfortably in the leviathan scale and the squidshark is at the bottom end of it.
Maybe the squidsharks we see are juveniles? The sea emperor juveniles are pretty small, possibly our size when they hatch. It could stand to reason then that the squidsharks need some time to grow. We might not see the full sized ones since they're out in the void, dead or alive who's to say.
That would explain there Appearance in the deep twisty bridges and the places like the Lili pad zone that has a lot of cracks they could potentially be the super predator of the micro biomes
Great theory, but I reckon the pda would point that out tbh. I mean, if it's good enough to discover how old (approximately ofc) a fossil is, (yes Im assuming it'd still be using carbon dating as we do irl, but in labs instead) from just a little scan of it, surely it could detect whether a creature is juvenile or not
@@elixerities Fair point, but since it made 2 entries in Subnautica 1 to separate the Ghost Leviathans and their Juveniles, the jury's out for me.
@@willropa4226you meet the adult ghost tho. You never meet the adult (if it exists) squidshark
The colossal squidshark
There's clearly an in-universe biological classification called "leviathan", and squidshark is just one of its smaller members; there seems to be a specific size range as the PDA mentions that it had to be adjusted upwards for the emperor Leviathan.
It may not technically fit the gameplay role of a leviathan, but we're talking about what scientists would classify it as.
I don't think it's a biological classification necessarily but more of a practical one. Similar to the race category as used today, it often coincides with broad biological traits but its usefulness breaks down when you get into the details.
The PDA doesn't sort it as a leviathan, it doesn't even have leviathan in the name. Below zero has many PDA entries that are lackluster or rushed, I'd assume that they just threw down the term and left it. Not a leviathan, just a bad PDA entry.
In this sense there’s probably some weird biological reasoning for it being classed that way. Like how bananas are technically berries but you don’t see the reason why unless you dive in DEEP. But, I feel like having that sort of reasoning in a game like this is kind of a cop out answer and hope it’s not the case
blueblue
the banana reference is a bad analogy. Wild bananas make it very obvious how and why bananas are berries: they have seeds lined up all throughout the fruit flesh with a tough rind on the outside to protect them, just as we see with fruits like watermelon. Modern bananas obfuscate this anatomy by genetically removing the bananas ability to create seeds within its flesh.
@@Cigarettelover123 Only 6 of the known Leviathans have Leviathan in the name so that really shouldn't be used as an argument.
I love how this is basically real aquatic life classification arguments in a nut shell. "There is no such thing as a fish"
They still scare me, but so does the chali boi that roams the thermal vent spot in below zero
Those red boys just have no chill!
Chelis are pussies once you have the *S H O C K*
I myself would love these creatures in a future documentary:
Cuddlefish
Peeper
Architects
The peeper leviathan (just kidding)
Traivelle
(Maybe) gryptosuchus
Lavalizard
Scrapped sand leviathan
And (titan) holefish
I love your videos and I hope you see this!
Thanks Astronaut! I'll certainly think about some of them! :)
I mean a video on the Alpha peeper, or, even Alpha ray, or better yet, both combined would be sick
Or an ampeel
@LostTemplars They do have some intresting things about them
The Crabsquid might also be a good idea
I mean, it does say "A leviathan class PREDATOR" Not just a leviathan, being able to prove this point further with it being in the "CARNIVORE" category and not in the "LEVIATHAN" category. Which would mean it can hunt like a leviathan, it just simply isn't classified as one. Another theory could be that it can't defend itself from other leviathan attacks well enough and could easily be killed by another leviathan, I say defend as some leviathans such as reefbacks don't attack other things and are not threatening but can still defend well against other leviathan attacks as they have defensive measure like their shell or reef on their back.
but sea treaders are herbivores.
reapers are regarded as leviathan class
The definition of leviathans reminds me a lot of the irl definition of megafauna. Both are semi-scientific classifications. The latter's lower end varies between 2 and 1000 kg. While you would get quite a few odd looks by saying your cat is an example for megafauna, you wouldn't be completely wrong.
It would be interesting to compare squidsharks to the largest creature not considered a leviathan.
That would probably be a crabsquid
@@Wojtek1250XD it's actually the ampeel, being 20m in length and quite a bit thicker than a crabsnake
@@neoncat6820 I think both of you might be right. Ampeels for the length, Crabsquid for the bulk.
Me: drinks coffee in my seatruck Squidshark: Ok I will scare the hell out of him by trying to eat his window
It was its master plan all along!
And then they promptly get shocked by the Defense System...
Squidsharks are cool
They are indeed :)
personally, i would classify squidshark as somewhere between a standard carnivore, and a leviathan, due to the PDA saying its a leviathan, but its a little over half the length of the smallest leviathan: the Sea Treader
a "sub-leviathan" if you will
also, here is a random thing: the crabsnake is i think over 20 meters in length (20 meters is the leviathan threshold, i think) yet its not classed as a leviathan.
The crabsnake could be down to the weight / mass issue I mentioned! :)
i always used to think that crabsquids/snakes should be levaithans, maybe not crabsnake but definently crabquid
Ampeels are also massive, about the same length as crabsnakes
I assume the top of food chain is based on the adult since juvenile reefbacks are known snacks for predators
The squid shark may not technically be a leviathan in a physical sense, it’s still a leviathan to me, in my heart❤️
(I like squid sharks I think their design is so cool)
Squid shark is like my family. How dare you disrespect me and the squid shark like this.
He sorta reminds me of a goblin shark
I mean I can kinda see it!
Leviathans original dictionary meaning means "great" or " big tail" so even if the squid sharks is smaller then its relatives its still a leviathan.
Bonus fact the first ever recorded word of leviathan is a Hebrew mythology about the first ever dragon.
2:22 that's probably the best argument. They're prey for something else, but if its not a normal predator of that animal it shouldnt be counted.
bro did not have to do Snow Stalker's like that in the hierarchy
F to pay respects
F
personally id give the squid shark an honorary leviathan tag, because it scared me a whole lot more than the chelicerate, the shoe in reaper for sub zero. the chelly just didnt impress. i know it had big shoes to fill, but i feel they did so horribly. i found myself shrugging it off, while i was much more concerned about the squid shark. but thats just me
I think that the chelicerate ai is just too wonky. It takes forever to aggro, and it loses interest after one hit. Not to mention it doesn't really sound intimidating
@@xxjoebamaxx7782 Reaper's also lose interest after a hit and take a bit too aggro. I literally just got finished exploring the wholes dunes and crash zones and I managed to slip by a majority with ease. Hell, just dodging the reaper for like 10 seconds causes it to lose aggro. Reapers AI can be pretty wonky too, especially when they start phasing through the ground lmao. Reapers aren't that scary IMO, but chelicerates still freak me out a bit. Passing through the purple vents STILL makes me nervous, especially since the Cryptosuchuses make so many red herring sounds that make it hard to tell which roar is the Cheli. Everyone's got different experiences.
I especially found reaper's less scary because by the time you go anywhere they are, you should already have gear that makes them a complete joke. They are practically harmless against the prawn suit, the cyclops may as well be invisible to them, and seamoth can make them a joke too with the right equipment. I have to go to areas with the chelicerate before I have super powerful equipment, which makes them actually scary for me.
4:05
That thing (ice worm) doesn’t actually live in water, contrary to box art. A more appropriate category for this creature is “Behemoth” class, for it’s a land (or glacier) dwelling organism.
As that stands, the only reason it’s classified as “leviathan” is because the PDA in Below Zero is meant to help the player survive in 4546b’s arctic waters. Therefore, it’s most likely a technical classification bug on the PDA not accounting for a giant land-dweller and shoving it into “Leviathan” for less systematic confusion.
technically if it live in ice it live in water
Squidsharks and stalkers need another classification like dwarf-leviathan because they are the dominant species in their environment.
Don't quote me but i an 90% sure that when they were released in the beta they were oveg 2x their current size and were called the squidshark leviathan but when they were made smaller the leviathan was removed from their name but i am pretty sure the pda entry is still the same
@@MlKETSU conclusion: bz story rewrite made the game rushed and have a inconclusive story. The many PDA entries contradicting each other, saying to use items not in the game (crashfish entry says to equip stasis rifle or repulsion Cannon in caves) or saying useless plants are exploitable (honeycomb fungi reapers chalet trinity barnacle) and useful plants only listed as sea or land flora (antennae plant) makes it painfully obvious. Also what happened to sams body?? Why did Sam set the bombs before curing the leviathan?? Did Parvan shoot Sam causing her to fall and activate bomb early?? did Sam have extra bacteria agent on hand before they took her robots away keeping her from the stache?? how does a robotics scientist fabricate a cure for Khara so easily from just LOCAL resources while the architects couldn't?? HOW is marg not killed by ghost leviathans but Bart and Paul die to a random reaper that somehow goes all the way to floating island and somehow breaks their base. how does marg have so many off-world plants? and you can keep going.
@@wisemysticaltreeuser "how does a robotics scientist fabricate a cure for Khara so easily from just LOCAL resources while the architects couldn't?? H" That is quite easily explained. If you have a car you can much easier reconstruct it than by not having a car and going from scratch just with an idea.
I'm pretty sure the definition means that the creature is almost unkillable by other creatures within it's habitat along with this it should also be an extremely massive organism
The squid shark is average size and I'm sure it has a great personality
Dude, if it’s bigger than me, and it makes me have a constant fear of paranoia, it’s a leviathan. If not, you best believe I am getting that thermoblade!
My thought is: the PDA says they are levaithan class predators, not levaithans themselves meaning they eat like or as much as a levaithan but not clasified as a levaithan species
I think you're videos are really awesome and really underrated. Your commentary is chill, your delivery is cool and your comedic timing is on point. Really well done, you deserve way more.
The most common definition for leviathan is "a very large aquatic creature, especially a whale" and "a thing that is very large or powerful, especially a ship," so needless to say, being very BIG is one of the main requirements.
Someday we’ll find the leviathan-sized squidshark, known as the sharktopus.
reminds me of pluto, too small to fit under the category😭
" We could've even had a flying leviathan. " Leflyathan.
1:05 what's that shadow leviathan doing there
You mean Ice worm?
What the hellllllllll. How did get up there?
I built a base down in the deep twisty bridges and set up a guard Squidshark outside, had to get rid of him though as he kept swimming into my base 😢😢 it was awesome swimming down after a trip to see him patrolling the property line. I named him Spike 😊
I find them pretty adorable, but i've literally seen them once ever
Adorable and Leviathan.. not something that normally goes in the same sentance! xD
What about reefbacks? I want to pat these big guys anytime I see them :)
@@iAlethoWhen not trying to kill me I think the Sea Dragon is cute.
@@Shadow-hm3uq Everytime I pat a reefback I get clobbered by tiger plant
@@Gracefulwarrior2124 just get the reinforced diving suit
I absolutely love how you make your videos, the editing is so charming and the content itself is just excellent, keep up the great work!
Do you think theta or feta is a leviathan class? They appear probably bigger then squid sharks while it may not say in the pda what do you think
Theta is 21 metres long so on a pure length basis that makes it similar in size to the Sea Treader. On that basis I would be inclinded to say yes, but weight / mass could also play an important factor!
who?
feta cheese
@@thevalarauka101theta is the skeleton in the lost river alien base
@@sealord77 oh yeah research specimen theta I remember now
one thing to think about is that leviathans typically are long and worm/snakelike or have tentacles. not all of them do but thats something to think of. also typically in real life and subnautica, the deeper you go the bigger the things get, the squid shark seems to stay closer to the surface than most other leviathans.
it could be the escaping beheviour as well since all aggressive levithans doesnt tend to run away while they do
Idk why but thesquidshark looks like a stranger things monster
It kinda does actually xD
Loving your style of videos, the humor sprinkled in between the facts and theories makes it a joy to watch. Please never stop :)
Thank you Shadow, its comments like yours that keep me going! :)
Still waiting on the lifepod video
Haha maybe one day, depends if there is enough info to make it fun!
your video editing skills are superb, what a visual treat!
what about we wait for subnautica 3 maybe it will spefic what a leviathan is
We will have to wait and see!
@@iAletho argee
Ampeels are 20 meters long, making them more of a leviathan in terms of length than a Squidshark. However, they are not necessary at the top of the food chain, as Reefback Leviathans can spawn in the bulb zone, and Ghost Leviathans can be found in the blood kelp areas.
its tiny tho i just cant see it being scary cuz its so smol but if it was around 50 metres like most leviathans it would be way more scary
I agree, its just to small :)
It's actually huge it's just that subnautica struggles with them making feel big for some od reason even though it would probably be able to swallow the player whole.
Squidsharks are actually 11 Meters long, thats massive, but Subnautica skews your field of depth
Maybe there could be a new categorization of creatures known as "Pseudo-Leviathans" where they are top of their food chains, but dont necessarily meet the requirements for a true leviathan.
07:28 There's your answer, it's a dwarf leviathan lol.
Pluto was reclassified as a planet again, in case anyone was unaware.
Reapers are down in the caves because before the aurora there was another entrance to the lava zone there. The Sea Dragons would swim up and drag the reapers into the lava zone and kill them there.
squidshark is like the little brother you bring along because you feel bad for him
It's like Pluto. First it was a planet but then a moon and finally a dwarf planet.
When you said "so that begs the question" i thought you were about to loop it
You are the most underrated content creator ever keep it up
Thanks Mr.halfchicken! Glad to see you're still around! :)
@@iAletho Can you do a short video on my boy the pepper🙃
@@mr.halfchicken I've thought about doing one before, so maybe one day! There's plenty of lore to cover there! :)
If squid sharks were leviathan’s, the crab squid should be one as well.
In the biomes crabsquids live there seem to be no actual foodchain to put them at the top of
Crabsquid is not an apex predator because it lacks anything that would be under it other than small fish
the Squidshark is the cougar of Subnautica, mainly because the people who called them panthers didn’t have forensics, and therefore didn’t know that it’s more related to a housecat than a lion.
I think it is a leviathan, because it says they are vast organisms at the top of their food chain, and I think squidsharks can be bigger, plus it doesn’t specify anything else
You could classify it as a semi-leviathan along with maybe warpers, I think what it really comes down to is the danger level to size ratio.
Bigger, passive leviathans like the ventgarden get the edge for their size, but the squidshark and sea treaders have a 6:11 and 3:20 ratio respectively.
I think leviathan is just one of those pointless classifications likes worms or trees. It doesn't mean anything. Trees have evolved hundreds of different times independently from one another and we just call them "trees" because it's not necessary to differentiate them. Leviathans are the same thing. I think they all just evolved independently from one another. we just call them that cus when something is that dangerous, it's not longer important to classify them as different things
i would love to see ducumentaries on modded leviathans too!
that would be realy cool to have the call of the void leviathans on the ducumentaries
For the gargantuan leviathan part my brain made me say “that’s just a child one”
The main thing I noticed was that the squid shark is called a "Leviathan Class Predator," whereas the Reaper is called a "Leviathan Class Species."" These are similar terms but not interchangable.
Think of it like humans and Lions. Lions are an apex predator, but humans are the apex species.
I love your editing it reminds me of Game theory
Even its name, the squidshark, doesnt sound like the name of a leviathan, it sounds like a creature akin to the crabsquid, and thats about how dangerous it is too, sure its very dangerous and can definitely kill you but it certainly doesnt feel like a leviathan class threat
They only feel truly dangerous when theyre together
Take the ice worm leviathan, a giant wyrm with a heated beak that can burrow through ice at high speeds
And the shadow leviathan, a dangerous predator that blends into its surroundings and poses a bigger threat than normal creatures
Squidshark feels more like just a dangerous creature and foesnt feel like a leviathan, its the same thing with your stalker point
Great video! Keep up with the Subnautica videos, I love them. I can't wait for Subnautica 2, but I have to wait because I need to get a new PC.
Thanks fabbe! Good job you have a little time to prepare before Subnautica 2!
I absolutely love your content and it inspired me to play subnautica again 😂
I had completely forgotten it mentioned being a leviathan. I never, ever thought of this thing as one.
in the sea dragon databank entry in mentions its diet, which is where it lures leviathans into the lava zone where they are boiled alive and eaten.
Is it just me or 3:48 the plants make it look like it has eyes and loooks so tired of someone shit
I never even knew this creature was leviathan-class, I just thought it was a huge fish
I just remember squid sharks as those things that like to camp the lily pad wreck
Finally I can rest peacefully knowing that thing isn’t a levitation but my sea truck would say otherwise
The squid shark would've been such a better leviathan than the shrimp 😭
for me a leviathan is a creature that somewhat shapes the enviorment around it
Grammar can answer this one: "Leviathan-CLASS" predator.
The Squidshark is NOT classed as a Leviathan, but rather, that its predator skills or "hunting" skills / aggression are akin to the Leviathan's hunting skills / aggression.
I read somewhere that leviathan-class was anything bigger than 30 meters in some dimension, and thought that was the standard. Now I'm second-guessing wherever I got that information from.
I love how barely anyone understands the sheer size of the Garg, it is said that it cannot stop growing (i’ve seen some people say that, i’m not 100% sure)
If i remember correctly, the small skeleton you find in the wrecked precursor base in the lost river is also considered a leviathan, and im pretty sure its around the same size of the squidshark, if not a bit bigger
I really hope the next game will have something like the gargantuan leviathan. Just imagine swimming in the deep, open ocean. And suddenly you see a dark shape on the edge of your vision, almost incomprehensibly massive. It really gives than otherworldly horror feel.
The working definition given regarding being at the top of their respective foodchain does sort of work. We could consider protective traits like the Chelicerate's shell to be a holdover from before they grew into their leviathan classification, traits that become unnecessary are not always lost entirely especially if they're still potentially useful for survival, such as in the case of territory clashes. That leads into an explanation for the reaper leviathan skeletons; just because they died (presumably killed by sea dragons) doesn't inherently mean it was a predator/ prey interaction, it could have been a fight over territory wherein the sea dragon killed the reaper for hunting in it's neck of the woods.
If we deliberately stretch definitions to excuse the squidshark counting, you could argue that being vast as a prerequisite to being a leviathan is in relative terms; that you don't need to be huge in general, just huge in comparison to most everything else in your local ecosystem. With most leviathans they're big enough that there's no question about the label or comparisons, but with squidshark it's big but not _that_ big, but how big is it compared to the other things living around it? And how big could something reasonably be without it's size becoming a detriment in the squidshark's preferred environments? If it's at the upper end of that then there might be reasonable cause for the classification.
5:46 gargantuan leviathans (I am aware that's the name of the skeleton
learned quite a bit from this video and i gotta say that your definition seems to be the most logical - also i love your humor ^^
When I watched this vid for the first time and I noticed all the funny sounds effects and scrat screaming when godzillas pet dog makes a appearance got me rolling XD
10/10 best subnautica channel ever ❤
I feel like squidsharks and crabsquids fall under the same catagory
The problem with the armor issue is that it could easily be a leftover aspect from an ancestor who would benifit from the protection and while evolving since it was not explicitly making a difference in breeding rates it was passed on so it is not necessarily proof of predation
This is similar to a Pug being categorized as a Mastiff (Dutch Mastiff) lol
I used to be scared of squidsharks until I killed the one in deep twisty bridges, it didn't even try to fight back against my prawn-suit
Here’s my headcanon:
Leviathan designation is determined by overall size, place in their NATIVE food chain, and *weight*
And the Squidshark comes in at the bare minimum to qualify, meeting two of the requirements
The thing is the stalker lives in the crash zone with the reaper while the reaper is forced into the volcano zone