This is a really good theory. Really ties in my suspicions when Lyney and Lynette took too long to catch the thief at the start, and then forms a decently potential storyline
So, about the Siblings acting out a staged play, I want to add a detail that supports this. When we meet Lyney and Lynette, Lyney immediately attaches that Pyro String between Traveler and Paimon, because he assumed that we’d get in trouble with a certain law, and then Furina came into the scene to accuse us of that certain law … and Lyney acted surprised about her suddenly appearing … with him preparing for the accusations right before her appearance tells us that they were completely aware of her “surprise” appearance. It shows us that Furina was aware of our arrival because that Fontainian Guy from Caravan Ribat reported it to her, and considering how busy she is due to her popularity, this guy couldn’t just rush into a meeting with her, but has some form of legitimacy for going to Furina herself immediately … this means that Furina has an intelligence group that reports these important things to her, and considering how the Siblings knew about her arrival beforehand, heavily suggests that a House of Hearths member is in this Intelligence Group as well (very likely the same guy we saw). In the Court Case Furina v. Lyney, we find out due to Furina’s inner monologue, that she studied everything she could about the two magicians last night. These studies had to have been intelligence collected by her Intelligence Group, meaning that Lyney and Lynette were fully aware that Furina would oust their identities. Why would they want their identities to be known to the Traveler? I believe it’s because in the future, we will be convinced that we need to talk to Arlecchino herself, and who better to go to, but the Fatui Siblings that we trust? Another … slight oddity that I want to point out, is crying. Lyney has a crying tear, Lynette asked Paimon “what makes you cry?”, Freminet (a very shy person) suddenly goes out of his way to talk about a story about a crying Dragon. In the prophecy, Furina is crying on her throne. Take with that information as you will.
If I remember correctly, when we first meet Lyney, he seems to not know who the Traveler is, but later mentions he knows of us and our adventures, I think when we talk with him during the court break about the twins being Fatui.
@@aramyengoyan.7325 “I know you’ve clashed with the Fatui several times before.” Lyney says this when we talk to him about being a Fatui. Also, when we first enter Fontaine, we meet Furina who tells everyone about us, so they basically received confirmation about our identity at that point.
Actually, I don't think Lyney counted on us solving his case. I also don't think their plan in the Opera was based on our arrival. They were clearly informed of it (I think the intelligence group being infiltrated theory is very good in this sense. they would know we'd appear where we did), but I don't think the plan was relying on us winning. They seemed way too nonchalant about it. If they knew she would out them as Fatui, that's perfect for them, since they get sentenced to prison and they get to infiltrate it. Afterwards, it only takes someone to come out with the info about Vacher (and I refuse to believe Fatui didn't know about him) and boom! Oratrice was wrong, trust is lost, fortress is infiltrated. Everything according to keikaku... But then we show up and Lyney changes the plans to get us involved. It's like they are getting two for one, befriend us and get what they wanna.
"In the end, a child must grow up, and they must surpass their parents. Only thus may a family flourish. When that day comes... I look forward to hearing what 'family' means to him." - Arlecchino
Few things I want to bring up A. We know the guards are involved in some way since the one that dissolved says it's good money so we should take a lot of the stuff the guards say with some salt B. The third person everyone was talking about the one in the core room, what about Freminet? He's the unassuming third sibling so could it have been him C. The way we found the victim in the first trial seems very wrong to me as Navia only found her from luck of her getting hungry and making food that she took so if she didn't how would the twins have gotten innocent? Few thing I think could say that the twins did mess with it
I watched CatntheBluehats video, I agree with both of you, maybe they need the Traveler to join them sooner than later. I truly believe family is important to Childe, we spent the day with Teucer, I truly think he is our friend who just fights to better himself. Why give us his vision, he trusts us.
Ofc we got played. Not once, at least twice! Remember Lyney’s personal story quest? In that, he knew who’s the real culprit behind the death of his teacher. Yet he made us go through this so-called “investigation” and confront the assistant, the wrong guy. All these, just to achieve the goal of generating maximum grief and trauma for the thief.
Great video, I agree with pretty much everything you said. A few things I thought were strange during the quest. 1. It seemed very strange that Furina, Neuvillette, the guards, no one seemed to care that Lyney's alibi was him breaking into the room that the Oratice's core is in. That seems like it should be a major crime, for all they know he could have tampered with it to effect the outcome of his case. 2. One of the first things I thought was that he did it during the magic show because he needed the Oratrice to be active while he broke into the room, but it wasn't a trial so i dont know if the oratice would be acting any different then. I really like your idea that he did it to try and plant some evidence on Childe. 3. I also think Childe getting sentenced to prison is part of Arrlechino's plan. My thought was that there is something or someone at the prison that she needs and will use Childe to create the opportunity to get that. Basically a man on the inside or likely us going to help him and then we end up doing something that we probably shouldn't in the process lol. Great video, really enjoyed this one!
Very interesting theory... It makes me wonder if Childe intentionally handed his vision to the Traveller to get his friend to come rescue him. After all, we know that separating people from their visions can be damaging...
Actually, my theory about being separated from one's vision includes one factor: is the vision representative of the person's ONLY ambition or if the person has multiple ones. If they have a single goal they pursue, this may be more damaging, as we saw with Inazuma's NPCs, but if we look at Itto's and Kuki Shinobu's stories, we'll find that Itto, despite giving it up unwillingly, was still fine and lived as he usually did, and Shinobu gave it up willingly not to cast a bad shadow on her friend from the Tenriyou commission, and also lived as usual, only being annoyed by the gang trying to retrieve their visions back. So, at least two examples of people who weren't as badly damaged by that. That can either be because of them having other ambitions to pursue, not as strong as the ones their visions represent, but still quite strong, or maybe the Inazuman belief is wrong and there is something else at play here
@@atriyakoller136 I think you might be onto something with this. In the manga, Diluc left his vision behind when he was fighting in Snezhnaya and he was fine as well even though he was separated from his vision for a long time. He definitely had a rather pressing ambition to keep him afloat while he was away from his vision, so I can see how this might be a protective factor.
iirc itto gave his up more or less willingly (by losing) and was trying to get it back by fighting sara. so i think the willingness does matter in how separation from vision works - after all, there's a guy in liyue who also willingly gave up his cuz he was hurting people with it, but i also agree that pursuing new ambitions also helps. @@atriyakoller136
I think it is more if the vision holder is willing to remove their vision from themselves. If they are willing then I think they don't get badly damaged. Diluc willingly left his vision in monstadt, lyney and Lynette willingly give their visions to an assistant before the show began and childe willingly left his vision with the traveller. The vision hunt decree in inazuma forcefully takes away visions from vision holders.
I think there is another problem in the archon quests. But the resulution showed that it could have just been a mistake. Everyone talked about two shots except for one. The guard contact. But nothing mentioned this inconsistency.
It seems awfully implausible that, upon hearing Lyney had gone into the basement room where the Oratrice was, neither Neuvillette nor Furina would have investigated to determine whether it had been tampered with. Furina supposedly built it, and while there is evidence it behaves in ways that surprise her, that in and of itself is not proof she doesn't know how it works; and as for Neuvillette, we have no idea what he knows regarding the Oratrice, but he mentions that he had always been prepared for its verdict to disagree with his own, so that suggests he might be at least passably familiar with its functions. Basically, the following things would have to be true: (1) Neither Furina nor Neuvillette would be able to tell if the Oratrice had been tampered with, OR were fine with it being tampered with, OR never checked after being outright told a Fatui agent had been in the basement trying to examine it (seriously?); AND (2) The Oratrice can actually be tampered with in the first place, AND Lyney (or a member of Arlecchino's group) knows enough about it to successfully tamper with it in a way that Furina and Neuvillette cannot detect; AND (3) This tampering will guarantee that Tartaglia is found guilty of a crime even if someone else confesses to the crime and is found guilty of it mere minutes before he is sentenced, which Arlecchino would have to know was possible if she was the one framing Childe (because she'd know he actually didn't do it, and that therefore someone else must have been involved). That's a lot of unlikely events, Furina/Neuv behaving like idiots, and unsupported speculation. There are only a few ways I can see to square this circle. --- *THE ORATRICE DIDN'T REQUIRE TAMPERING*: Arlecchino knew it would find Tartaglia guilty even if they didn't mess with it, and even if the real culprit were convicted first. Lyney's story is just there to cast doubt in public that the Fatui might have messed with the Oratrice and thus that it's unreliable. It isn't, and Childe actually was guilty somehow (or the Oratrice would, for sure, otherwise convict him). Lyney's actions are actually to make people think it's malfunctioning when it isn't to undermine their trust. The Oratrice actually saw through things somehow and needs to be discredited, as unlike Neuvillette and Furina it has access to the memories of the sourcewaters and maybe knows something that can't be flim-flammed with staged performances. Basically, what's more likely: That the Chief Justice who doesn't fully understand human emotions and motivations correctly deduced that Childe was innocent while the Oratrice malfunctioned for no apparent reason, or that Neuvillette was emotionally manipulated into thinking Childe was innocent through tricks that wouldn't fool a magical, near-omniscient justice computer? When you put it that way, it seems insane to doubt the Oratrice. --- *ARLECCHINO KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE ORATRICE THAN FURINA*: Somehow, through means not yet revealed in the story, Arlecchino has figured out how to manipulate the Oratrice in ways Furina actually cannot. This probably would require that Furina didn't build it, and that Arlecchino has technical knowledge from someone who did. Perhaps if Alain Gullotin had a hand in its development, she could have found his notes on it in the ruins of the Institute? But the most likely candidate for the Oratrice's builder if it's not Furina is the previous Hydro Archon, and we have no reason to think Arlecchino would know her at all (or that she'd just leave notes that Arlecchino can find but Furina can't). I'd suggest an alliance with Jakob (and/or Rene/Carter/whoever), but there's no evidence that the NO know anything about the Oratrice or had any hand in it. So if she does know how to manipulate it in ways Furina can't detect, we have yet to see any in-story proof of this ability (or association with whoever would know). --- *SOMEONE ELSE IS IN ON IT*: Furina or Neuvillette could have actually made a show of checking on the Oratrice, knew it was tampered with (or tampered with it themselves), and then reported to the other it was all fine. Furina supposedly built the thing, and while that may or may not be true, it's possible she was play-acting incredulity at Lyney's story and knew all along how the Oratrice worked (possibly to spread doubt as to her own knowledge so that people doubt the Oratrice). If one of Furina/Neuvillette is collaborating with Arlecchino, all they need to do is fool the other one. There's evidence for it either way: If Furina is in on it, she's play-acting and making sure the twins go on trial (she knew full well what it meant to accuse Lyney in front of the Chief Justice), and her claim at the end of Childe's trial that everything was staged is not a lie (she's the one who helped stage it); if Neuvillette is in on it, he might agree with Arlecchino about the need to save Fontaine and when he said he had long planned for a time when the Oratrice would disagree with him, he meant far more than just what to do procedurally. If Furina did it, the AQ could end with Furina herself on trial for the "crime" of collaborating with the Fatui to save her own country. I think this is a very unlikely prospect because we have access to Furina's internal thoughts -- she seems sincere about regretting accusing Lyney, which she has no reason to think to no one but herself if that isn't true -- and it seems extremely out-of-character for Neuvillette unless Arlecchino has incredibly convincing proof that only by covertly helping her can the people of Fontaine be saved.
I only see one trouble with this theory. It's the supposition that Lyney could tamper with a divine machine in less than a minute. VERY hard to believe
Oh, I agree! But I'm trying to make the opposite point. As in, they messed with the Oratrice either before or after the show, and Lyney only went into the vent during the show to have an alibi and stay out of Cowell and Liliane's way. Should have made that clearer in the video, sorry about that! Thank you for watching!
I would love to have a mechanic phase boss fight if we have to fight Freminet then Lyney and lynette together like the dancing robots. And the final phase we face arrlechino. I really hope that’s the bext weekly boss they already added the duo mechanic in game now they just need to work with that and make Lyney and lynette and actual boss to fight. Since we can’t get them as playable characters like this I hope this is the next best thing they can come up with.
Agreed! I was thinking Lyney & Lynette (with Arlecchino’s help) set everything up, including killing that guy with the first trick. Traveler has been duped. Alternately, Fortress of Meropide might house the gnosis so they sent Childe there to retrieve it, and Childe had to be kept out of the dark to make it more convincing. I think Lyney made Childe’s vision appear to lose power too, some illusion trick.
The balloon string is so weird to me, like, why not give us a heads up right away? It would be good for us to know going forward even if we didn't get in trouble for it then and there. Doing that immediately upon meeting us and without our knowledge moments before Furina arrived was hella bizarre
now that's a tight theory! you brought up some points that i found missing in other people's theories and put them all together. like, i never would've thought arle would incarcerate childe for anything other than just getting him out of her way, or that halsey might not exist. if they could fake her beaing real, they could also have undercover fatui posing as family members to make the whole thing less suspicious.
Huh, remember how Freminet said that "the others" were out, referring to the other members of the House of the Hearth? Who knows if they weren't helping "Halsey" come to life and pretending to be her family. Good observation! I'm glad you enjoyed! Thank you so much for watching!
This makes me really excited, because compared to Vacher's trial, Lyney's trial made no sense to me. The events just didn't match up well in my head, same with that catching-the-thief stuff. That being said, maybe it WAS important to enter the core of Oratrice during the performance. Not because they had no other chance, but maybe, because there was an audience (that attempted to figure out the trick perhaps, or well, witnessing a play. Maybe they wanted to observe how it works during a trial.). I think that maybe it was crucial for Lyney to interact with the Oratrice at that exact time and Lynette stayed on the surface to make sure everything goes according to plan. To some degree, I also want to believe that Traveler wasn't a part of their plan though. Looking at what happen during both, the Lyney's and Childe's trials, even if we didn't interfere, wouldn't Arlecchino's goals come to pass anyway? If the twins were found guilty- they would have the pass into the Fortress of Meropide. Northland bank was involved with the Confrerie of Cabriere already and Vacher was also Snezhnayan. Feels like they could have pulled a "they were actually innocent" card at any moment and prove they were wrongly sentenced (after twins had time to look around the prison). That would have the exact same impact as what we are theorising rn. But, we got involved. They tried a 2nd time, jailing Childe, for THE SAME THING and yet again, we get involved. Which means that they either messed with Oratrice to make sure that he gets sentenced anyway (they did have enough time to do it while we accused Vacher. Plus, no one stopped Navia or us to come and go around the Opera during the trial.) or they actually did something before to make him guilty, although he doesn't know about that. He WAS involved with Marcel in the end.
i see some people keep forgetting lyney is a direct heir of the knave. of course he is the one going to the basement if its a fatui mission. and might i add we have more acts to go through there's no need to say so or so is guilty and innocent. theres way too many details missing.
I agree, some parts of this theory are a bit of a leap of logic. Not everything was really that suspicious. And Lyney literally stated that they were planning the invasion by the time of the show, which means that they literally couldn't enter the Oratrice room before because they were making the necessary preparations, such as scouting the area, learning guard routes, looking for possible traps and so on. It's not as strange as some youtubers are making it out to be. As for the disappeared girl, she didn't disappear, the thief girl pretty much told us that she followed the original owner of the ticket and found out she couldn't go to the show, so she stole the ticket for herself. Which means that the girl is still going on her daily routine, nothing strange there.
Not trying to debunk but i have a few points. (Edit: some typos that i noticed) 1- I don't think it's that simple to tinker or mess with the oratrice mecanique d'Analyse cardinale,i mean ,if something holds so much value it won't be that easy to mess with it. 2- i think lyney taking the opportunity to check on it during the show could be a way to make sure there was no eyes on him due to the Archon and neuvillette being there ,if anything,a few guards won't eb much to deal with and the gaurds are suspicious anyway. 3- i do agree with the interactions between the theif and the twins seeming suspicious,but i disagree with the point regards the interaction of the twins and the traveler ,if anything,it doesn't hold any water to it (pun intended) because there is just no way to proof it and some basic ideas kinda do debunk it ,unless proven otherwise,i don't think if the twins are well aware regarding the traveler, they'd decide to be hostile towards him by choice, unless the bigger set up is for a knave follow up then it seems illogical,but since they are fatui agents they know about him a way or another,i just don't think that would mess with him by choice.
11:25 I thought Furina was the one that pressed charges? Isn't that why she felt really embarassed after wrongfuly convicting a mam twice? Or maybe I just missed something 😅
They didn’t lie it’s actually true and that terrible stuff happened to Lynette. Which is why I don’t want them to be found out as liars… but then again hoyo had way to many plot holes in this AQ and needs to be adressed😊
I never trusted them from the start, they both seemed too suspicious during the story quest, but after they revealed they've been agents for the Knave, I knew like puppets, we were going to be played by Arlecchino who will fight/hurt/attempt to sell us out at some point. It makes sense especially if your playing the intelligence game and a long game at that. The other secret police or spy agencies around the other nations have similar people involved, Rosaria in Mond, Chori potentially for Inazuma, Yelan for Liyue, etc.
4:08 fr how the fxck is this possible? Lynette was inside the box, pretending to be Lyney, around 10 seconds before it was crushed by the water tank above. Literally how??? Where did she go? She escaped through the tunnel? Nope, cowell was coming UP from the tunnel.
OMFG this is exactly what I was saying my goodness... Yes lyney is sus as hell. No way he just let the theif go... Who charged Childe? It's not clear... Plus I bet it's all a act
Did he? He was always open to who he was. He even said he hates deception. Him getting the Gnosis was no Surprise since we always knew he'd come for it. Childe doesn't work with deception. This is shown with the Wild goose chase of Childe in Inazuma looking for Scara even though by that time he was in Sumeru. Also the Harbinger turned into a Debt Collector for the Northland bank? It's clear Childe is just Muscle and would be trouble in any deception based operation.
@@arnowisp6244 He's much smarter than people give him credit for. He's hotheaded and that's what made it easy for Zhongli to control him. But he did find out the truth in a manner of seconds once he cooled down and thought it through. He also managed to obtain the info about the location of the Exuvia all on his own.
Finally, I found my people 😭 Yes, Lyney and Lynette backstory is sad, but they're part of an organisation that happily kills innocent people. I don't trust a word they say. If the game allowed me, I wouldn't talk with them at all. I think Childe had to disappear or he's simply a way to make everyone focus on the Oratrice while Arlechino works on getting the gnosis.
Yeah and there's even more issues with the story BUT in the end this approach has some problems. (1) The twins are playable characters and therefore good guys (2) they already did the apology routine so they can't play it again (3) so they can't be caught lying to the Traveler again. As a result I reluctantly conclude that the story is on the level and we'll be told why it was important for Lyney to visit the Oratrice during the show. Maybe it responds to the feeling of the crowd so they figured getting everyone to count loudly would stir something up in it? We'll probably find out Childe really is guilty of the charges against him in some sense. Yeah we need explanations but it's only v4.0 so there's time for that.
I think the problem is the Oratrice itself. It’s incredibly sus. And the energy of the entire city is depended on its verdicts. I think the crowd is thrilled with guilty verdicts so it’s natural to assume that it will begin to deliver verdicts that make no kind of logical sense. 🤷♀️ Also Childe is not inherently good and he’s a playable character. He showed no remorse for trying to drown Liyue. And Raiden, Zhongli, Xiao, Albedo all have a checkered past that make them morally gray, not good in the true sense of the word.
im pretty sure that if they just lied to the traveler again, there would be no way of forgiveness. im actually trusting lyney's words this time, i dont really think he would just create that whole backstory out of nowhere, also because it involves one of the most disturbing and disgusting things ive ever seen in genshin impact (i really wasnt expecting it) i think the problem is something with the oratrice, or the hydro gnosis... maybe after we talk to furina this whole thing will be explained (or maybe not since it appears that she is completely confused)
It does not make sense that they purposely frame childe who is a harbringer. If thay want a scapegoat they can just find anybody to frame. Childe getting caught has something to do with involving himself in the disappearances.
One thing that looking back on I am curious about... what the HELL happened to the Lynette lookalike in the bubble box, since it used Primordial Seawater... which melts fontainians as easily as a flamethrower does Ice cream?
I don’t really believe this theory is true because all playable characters to be playable have to be on at least somewhat good terms with the traveler. I personally have a different theory. The oratrice takes energy from people’s sense of justice, and in Fontaine it’s well known harbingers are guilty of many crimes. Somebody in the audience even said “well, have you ever heard of an innocent fatui harbinger?” This supports the theory that the oratrice doesn’t take judgements from the evidence but from the people’s sense of justice. If this ends up being true it would explain why childe was guilty, Childe was considered guilty for many things by the people.
This is exactly what I thought of when he was found to be guilty. It was said and implied many times in the Fontaine Archon quest that the Fatui have done plenty of bad stuff. Going by how Furina instantly changes her chain of thought to match that of the 'audience' around her, it makes even more sense that the Oratrice found him guilty even if there was no real outside cause. Not only that, both Vacher and Childe come from the same nation, so perhaps Childe indirectly helped Vacher somehow.
Bro there’s so many inconsistencies with the twins story and how they went about it that or these were massive plot holes. Idk but I think the only way for the game to fix these is to make the twins the bad guys here😭. I really wanted them to be neutral and believe them but as soon as lyney said he “twisted his ankle” I knew I couldn’t trust what he said💀.
Regarding the end of your video, if this really is Arlecchino, lynette, and lyney's plan, then why would they want to make fonataine more vulnerable? Do they secretly not like fonataine for an unknkown reason ? 🤔🤔 From what we know Arlecchino, lyney and lynette feel the opposite..again unless they are lying for some reason..? 🤔🤔
If you are talking about the first one, you can find it if you type "fontaine underwater ost number 2" on youtube. As for the second piece, I believe it's either number 3 or 4.
This makes sense but one thing I realised is if the Fatui are bad guys how come you can play as Childe? Maybe it isn't that deep but if Arlechinno is not playable I feel like they are setting up for Childe to leave the Fatui in Fontaine.
We already know how Childe personality is but we don't know much about the twin and freminet also arlechinno, so it's reasonable for traveller to be on guard. I know not all fatui is bad but there's exist bad guy in fatui and we don't know whom
Not sure… maybe they’ll see the plot holes in the story and fix it? Someway!? Like how they fixed the question to how kazuha and gorou came to tenshukaku and it was by ayato
is a good theory but the only bad point is.. CHILD IS GUILTY HE SHOULD NOT EVEN BE ALIVE HE SHOULD BE SIGNORATED HE AND SCARA THEY SHOULD BE DEAD lyney and lynette where manipulated scara is a b*tch and childe is just stuped for me, they should not even get redemption archs if you can call them, that i will never forgive mihoyo for that, specially scara 1 in jail, one more to go
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This is a really good theory. Really ties in my suspicions when Lyney and Lynette took too long to catch the thief at the start, and then forms a decently potential storyline
I'm glad you liked it! Thank you so much for watching!
So, about the Siblings acting out a staged play, I want to add a detail that supports this.
When we meet Lyney and Lynette, Lyney immediately attaches that Pyro String between Traveler and Paimon, because he assumed that we’d get in trouble with a certain law, and then Furina came into the scene to accuse us of that certain law … and Lyney acted surprised about her suddenly appearing … with him preparing for the accusations right before her appearance tells us that they were completely aware of her “surprise” appearance.
It shows us that Furina was aware of our arrival because that Fontainian Guy from Caravan Ribat reported it to her, and considering how busy she is due to her popularity, this guy couldn’t just rush into a meeting with her, but has some form of legitimacy for going to Furina herself immediately … this means that Furina has an intelligence group that reports these important things to her, and considering how the Siblings knew about her arrival beforehand, heavily suggests that a House of Hearths member is in this Intelligence Group as well (very likely the same guy we saw).
In the Court Case Furina v. Lyney, we find out due to Furina’s inner monologue, that she studied everything she could about the two magicians last night. These studies had to have been intelligence collected by her Intelligence Group, meaning that Lyney and Lynette were fully aware that Furina would oust their identities.
Why would they want their identities to be known to the Traveler? I believe it’s because in the future, we will be convinced that we need to talk to Arlecchino herself, and who better to go to, but the Fatui Siblings that we trust?
Another … slight oddity that I want to point out, is crying. Lyney has a crying tear, Lynette asked Paimon “what makes you cry?”, Freminet (a very shy person) suddenly goes out of his way to talk about a story about a crying Dragon. In the prophecy, Furina is crying on her throne.
Take with that information as you will.
If I remember correctly, when we first meet Lyney, he seems to not know who the Traveler is, but later mentions he knows of us and our adventures, I think when we talk with him during the court break about the twins being Fatui.
@@aramyengoyan.7325 “I know you’ve clashed with the Fatui several times before.” Lyney says this when we talk to him about being a Fatui.
Also, when we first enter Fontaine, we meet Furina who tells everyone about us, so they basically received confirmation about our identity at that point.
@@TinkRomero Yeah I guess if Furina mentions us being THE Traveller they could've just not recognised us until then
Actually, I don't think Lyney counted on us solving his case. I also don't think their plan in the Opera was based on our arrival. They were clearly informed of it (I think the intelligence group being infiltrated theory is very good in this sense. they would know we'd appear where we did), but I don't think the plan was relying on us winning. They seemed way too nonchalant about it.
If they knew she would out them as Fatui, that's perfect for them, since they get sentenced to prison and they get to infiltrate it. Afterwards, it only takes someone to come out with the info about Vacher (and I refuse to believe Fatui didn't know about him) and boom! Oratrice was wrong, trust is lost, fortress is infiltrated. Everything according to keikaku...
But then we show up and Lyney changes the plans to get us involved. It's like they are getting two for one, befriend us and get what they wanna.
These Fontaine siblings would make good harbringers 😭🤞
There’s two missing seats after all…
Indicated by the knave and some voicelines that she's setting up the harbinger seat for lyney , which would be interesting
"In the end, a child must grow up, and they must surpass their parents. Only thus may a family flourish. When that day comes... I look forward to hearing what 'family' means to him."
- Arlecchino
isnt she talking about house of the hearth's successor, and not harbingers seat@@ayanokoji9608
Few things I want to bring up
A. We know the guards are involved in some way since the one that dissolved says it's good money so we should take a lot of the stuff the guards say with some salt
B. The third person everyone was talking about the one in the core room, what about Freminet? He's the unassuming third sibling so could it have been him
C. The way we found the victim in the first trial seems very wrong to me as Navia only found her from luck of her getting hungry and making food that she took so if she didn't how would the twins have gotten innocent?
Few thing I think could say that the twins did mess with it
I watched CatntheBluehats video, I agree with both of you, maybe they need the Traveler to join them sooner than later. I truly believe family is important to Childe, we spent the day with Teucer, I truly think he is our friend who just fights to better himself. Why give us his vision, he trusts us.
Ofc we got played. Not once, at least twice! Remember Lyney’s personal story quest? In that, he knew who’s the real culprit behind the death of his teacher. Yet he made us go through this so-called “investigation” and confront the assistant, the wrong guy. All these, just to achieve the goal of generating maximum grief and trauma for the thief.
Idk but to me that seems kinda psychotic. Like Ik he was very dear to him but that was a decade ago and he waited all this time for it💀
restrain from using words you ignore the actual meaning of@@2triedforthis830
@@2triedforthis830wow cause Lyney definitely isn’t a psychopath mhmmmm yeah he definitely doesn’t take after Arlecchino (being sarcastic)
Great video, I agree with pretty much everything you said. A few things I thought were strange during the quest.
1. It seemed very strange that Furina, Neuvillette, the guards, no one seemed to care that Lyney's alibi was him breaking into the room that the Oratice's core is in. That seems like it should be a major crime, for all they know he could have tampered with it to effect the outcome of his case.
2. One of the first things I thought was that he did it during the magic show because he needed the Oratrice to be active while he broke into the room, but it wasn't a trial so i dont know if the oratice would be acting any different then. I really like your idea that he did it to try and plant some evidence on Childe.
3. I also think Childe getting sentenced to prison is part of Arrlechino's plan. My thought was that there is something or someone at the prison that she needs and will use Childe to create the opportunity to get that. Basically a man on the inside or likely us going to help him and then we end up doing something that we probably shouldn't in the process lol.
Great video, really enjoyed this one!
Very interesting theory... It makes me wonder if Childe intentionally handed his vision to the Traveller to get his friend to come rescue him. After all, we know that separating people from their visions can be damaging...
Actually, my theory about being separated from one's vision includes one factor: is the vision representative of the person's ONLY ambition or if the person has multiple ones. If they have a single goal they pursue, this may be more damaging, as we saw with Inazuma's NPCs, but if we look at Itto's and Kuki Shinobu's stories, we'll find that Itto, despite giving it up unwillingly, was still fine and lived as he usually did, and Shinobu gave it up willingly not to cast a bad shadow on her friend from the Tenriyou commission, and also lived as usual, only being annoyed by the gang trying to retrieve their visions back. So, at least two examples of people who weren't as badly damaged by that.
That can either be because of them having other ambitions to pursue, not as strong as the ones their visions represent, but still quite strong, or maybe the Inazuman belief is wrong and there is something else at play here
@@atriyakoller136 I think you might be onto something with this. In the manga, Diluc left his vision behind when he was fighting in Snezhnaya and he was fine as well even though he was separated from his vision for a long time. He definitely had a rather pressing ambition to keep him afloat while he was away from his vision, so I can see how this might be a protective factor.
iirc itto gave his up more or less willingly (by losing) and was trying to get it back by fighting sara. so i think the willingness does matter in how separation from vision works - after all, there's a guy in liyue who also willingly gave up his cuz he was hurting people with it, but i also agree that pursuing new ambitions also helps. @@atriyakoller136
not to spoil but according to leaks, yes it's exactly what happened
I think it is more if the vision holder is willing to remove their vision from themselves. If they are willing then I think they don't get badly damaged. Diluc willingly left his vision in monstadt, lyney and Lynette willingly give their visions to an assistant before the show began and childe willingly left his vision with the traveller. The vision hunt decree in inazuma forcefully takes away visions from vision holders.
"When are we going to see a REAL twist for once?" - Furina Well Furina, this may be the twist. Do you like it?
for a nation that's all about theathrical drama, and for a house that's about betrayal.
the current archon story feels too innocent.
I hope it will all crash down in the next version
Yeah. I agree. I think Arlecchino needed Childe out of the way, since he is very loyal to the Tsaritsa, but the Arlecchiso is not.
I think there is another problem in the archon quests. But the resulution showed that it could have just been a mistake. Everyone talked about two shots except for one. The guard contact. But nothing mentioned this inconsistency.
I’ll still hug Lyney if I could 🥺🥺
same
It seems awfully implausible that, upon hearing Lyney had gone into the basement room where the Oratrice was, neither Neuvillette nor Furina would have investigated to determine whether it had been tampered with. Furina supposedly built it, and while there is evidence it behaves in ways that surprise her, that in and of itself is not proof she doesn't know how it works; and as for Neuvillette, we have no idea what he knows regarding the Oratrice, but he mentions that he had always been prepared for its verdict to disagree with his own, so that suggests he might be at least passably familiar with its functions. Basically, the following things would have to be true:
(1) Neither Furina nor Neuvillette would be able to tell if the Oratrice had been tampered with, OR were fine with it being tampered with, OR never checked after being outright told a Fatui agent had been in the basement trying to examine it (seriously?); AND
(2) The Oratrice can actually be tampered with in the first place, AND Lyney (or a member of Arlecchino's group) knows enough about it to successfully tamper with it in a way that Furina and Neuvillette cannot detect; AND
(3) This tampering will guarantee that Tartaglia is found guilty of a crime even if someone else confesses to the crime and is found guilty of it mere minutes before he is sentenced, which Arlecchino would have to know was possible if she was the one framing Childe (because she'd know he actually didn't do it, and that therefore someone else must have been involved).
That's a lot of unlikely events, Furina/Neuv behaving like idiots, and unsupported speculation. There are only a few ways I can see to square this circle.
---
*THE ORATRICE DIDN'T REQUIRE TAMPERING*: Arlecchino knew it would find Tartaglia guilty even if they didn't mess with it, and even if the real culprit were convicted first. Lyney's story is just there to cast doubt in public that the Fatui might have messed with the Oratrice and thus that it's unreliable. It isn't, and Childe actually was guilty somehow (or the Oratrice would, for sure, otherwise convict him). Lyney's actions are actually to make people think it's malfunctioning when it isn't to undermine their trust. The Oratrice actually saw through things somehow and needs to be discredited, as unlike Neuvillette and Furina it has access to the memories of the sourcewaters and maybe knows something that can't be flim-flammed with staged performances.
Basically, what's more likely: That the Chief Justice who doesn't fully understand human emotions and motivations correctly deduced that Childe was innocent while the Oratrice malfunctioned for no apparent reason, or that Neuvillette was emotionally manipulated into thinking Childe was innocent through tricks that wouldn't fool a magical, near-omniscient justice computer? When you put it that way, it seems insane to doubt the Oratrice.
---
*ARLECCHINO KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE ORATRICE THAN FURINA*: Somehow, through means not yet revealed in the story, Arlecchino has figured out how to manipulate the Oratrice in ways Furina actually cannot. This probably would require that Furina didn't build it, and that Arlecchino has technical knowledge from someone who did. Perhaps if Alain Gullotin had a hand in its development, she could have found his notes on it in the ruins of the Institute?
But the most likely candidate for the Oratrice's builder if it's not Furina is the previous Hydro Archon, and we have no reason to think Arlecchino would know her at all (or that she'd just leave notes that Arlecchino can find but Furina can't). I'd suggest an alliance with Jakob (and/or Rene/Carter/whoever), but there's no evidence that the NO know anything about the Oratrice or had any hand in it. So if she does know how to manipulate it in ways Furina can't detect, we have yet to see any in-story proof of this ability (or association with whoever would know).
---
*SOMEONE ELSE IS IN ON IT*: Furina or Neuvillette could have actually made a show of checking on the Oratrice, knew it was tampered with (or tampered with it themselves), and then reported to the other it was all fine. Furina supposedly built the thing, and while that may or may not be true, it's possible she was play-acting incredulity at Lyney's story and knew all along how the Oratrice worked (possibly to spread doubt as to her own knowledge so that people doubt the Oratrice). If one of Furina/Neuvillette is collaborating with Arlecchino, all they need to do is fool the other one.
There's evidence for it either way: If Furina is in on it, she's play-acting and making sure the twins go on trial (she knew full well what it meant to accuse Lyney in front of the Chief Justice), and her claim at the end of Childe's trial that everything was staged is not a lie (she's the one who helped stage it); if Neuvillette is in on it, he might agree with Arlecchino about the need to save Fontaine and when he said he had long planned for a time when the Oratrice would disagree with him, he meant far more than just what to do procedurally. If Furina did it, the AQ could end with Furina herself on trial for the "crime" of collaborating with the Fatui to save her own country.
I think this is a very unlikely prospect because we have access to Furina's internal thoughts -- she seems sincere about regretting accusing Lyney, which she has no reason to think to no one but herself if that isn't true -- and it seems extremely out-of-character for Neuvillette unless Arlecchino has incredibly convincing proof that only by covertly helping her can the people of Fontaine be saved.
I only see one trouble with this theory. It's the supposition that Lyney could tamper with a divine machine in less than a minute. VERY hard to believe
Oh, I agree! But I'm trying to make the opposite point. As in, they messed with the Oratrice either before or after the show, and Lyney only went into the vent during the show to have an alibi and stay out of Cowell and Liliane's way. Should have made that clearer in the video, sorry about that!
Thank you for watching!
I would love to have a mechanic phase boss fight if we have to fight Freminet then Lyney and lynette together like the dancing robots. And the final phase we face arrlechino. I really hope that’s the bext weekly boss they already added the duo mechanic in game now they just need to work with that and make Lyney and lynette and actual boss to fight. Since we can’t get them as playable characters like this I hope this is the next best thing they can come up with.
this would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE
I anticipate us being roped into supporting the Fatui this round one way or another.
Agreed! I was thinking Lyney & Lynette (with Arlecchino’s help) set everything up, including killing that guy with the first trick. Traveler has been duped. Alternately, Fortress of Meropide might house the gnosis so they sent Childe there to retrieve it, and Childe had to be kept out of the dark to make it more convincing. I think Lyney made Childe’s vision appear to lose power too, some illusion trick.
The balloon string is so weird to me, like, why not give us a heads up right away? It would be good for us to know going forward even if we didn't get in trouble for it then and there. Doing that immediately upon meeting us and without our knowledge moments before Furina arrived was hella bizarre
now that's a tight theory! you brought up some points that i found missing in other people's theories and put them all together. like, i never would've thought arle would incarcerate childe for anything other than just getting him out of her way, or that halsey might not exist. if they could fake her beaing real, they could also have undercover fatui posing as family members to make the whole thing less suspicious.
Huh, remember how Freminet said that "the others" were out, referring to the other members of the House of the Hearth? Who knows if they weren't helping "Halsey" come to life and pretending to be her family. Good observation!
I'm glad you enjoyed! Thank you so much for watching!
This makes me really excited, because compared to Vacher's trial, Lyney's trial made no sense to me. The events just didn't match up well in my head, same with that catching-the-thief stuff. That being said, maybe it WAS important to enter the core of Oratrice during the performance. Not because they had no other chance, but maybe, because there was an audience (that attempted to figure out the trick perhaps, or well, witnessing a play. Maybe they wanted to observe how it works during a trial.). I think that maybe it was crucial for Lyney to interact with the Oratrice at that exact time and Lynette stayed on the surface to make sure everything goes according to plan.
To some degree, I also want to believe that Traveler wasn't a part of their plan though. Looking at what happen during both, the Lyney's and Childe's trials, even if we didn't interfere, wouldn't Arlecchino's goals come to pass anyway?
If the twins were found guilty- they would have the pass into the Fortress of Meropide. Northland bank was involved with the Confrerie of Cabriere already and Vacher was also Snezhnayan. Feels like they could have pulled a "they were actually innocent" card at any moment and prove they were wrongly sentenced (after twins had time to look around the prison). That would have the exact same impact as what we are theorising rn. But, we got involved.
They tried a 2nd time, jailing Childe, for THE SAME THING and yet again, we get involved. Which means that they either messed with Oratrice to make sure that he gets sentenced anyway (they did have enough time to do it while we accused Vacher. Plus, no one stopped Navia or us to come and go around the Opera during the trial.) or they actually did something before to make him guilty, although he doesn't know about that. He WAS involved with Marcel in the end.
"But what you see is not real it's all just a show and every part of the show is carefully controlled....by choosing the right time place and people"
i see some people keep forgetting lyney is a direct heir of the knave. of course he is the one going to the basement if its a fatui mission.
and might i add we have more acts to go through there's no need to say so or so is guilty and innocent. theres way too many details missing.
I agree, some parts of this theory are a bit of a leap of logic. Not everything was really that suspicious. And Lyney literally stated that they were planning the invasion by the time of the show, which means that they literally couldn't enter the Oratrice room before because they were making the necessary preparations, such as scouting the area, learning guard routes, looking for possible traps and so on. It's not as strange as some youtubers are making it out to be. As for the disappeared girl, she didn't disappear, the thief girl pretty much told us that she followed the original owner of the ticket and found out she couldn't go to the show, so she stole the ticket for herself. Which means that the girl is still going on her daily routine, nothing strange there.
Imagine childe was also acting 😂
That is exactly my theory too, expanded in much more details. Great work!
Not trying to debunk but i have a few points.
(Edit: some typos that i noticed)
1- I don't think it's that simple to tinker or mess with the oratrice mecanique d'Analyse cardinale,i mean ,if something holds so much value it won't be that easy to mess with it.
2- i think lyney taking the opportunity to check on it during the show could be a way to make sure there was no eyes on him due to the Archon and neuvillette being there ,if anything,a few guards won't eb much to deal with and the gaurds are suspicious anyway.
3- i do agree with the interactions between the theif and the twins seeming suspicious,but i disagree with the point regards the interaction of the twins and the traveler ,if anything,it doesn't hold any water to it (pun intended) because there is just no way to proof it and some basic ideas kinda do debunk it ,unless proven otherwise,i don't think if the twins are well aware regarding the traveler, they'd decide to be hostile towards him by choice, unless the bigger set up is for a knave follow up then it seems illogical,but since they are fatui agents they know about him a way or another,i just don't think that would mess with him by choice.
11:25 I thought Furina was the one that pressed charges? Isn't that why she felt really embarassed after wrongfuly convicting a mam twice? Or maybe I just missed something 😅
It's never confirmed who pressed charges against Childe. Plus, if it was her, she'd be in the booth opposite him, but she's in her VIP Seat.
@@XenoWars Ooh right, you do have a point about that!
The chapter is called masquerade of the guilty makes Sense.
I dont really like the idea that the twins lied about their backstory :(
They didn’t lie it’s actually true and that terrible stuff happened to Lynette. Which is why I don’t want them to be found out as liars… but then again hoyo had way to many plot holes in this AQ and needs to be adressed😊
@@2triedforthis830 yep
looking back at the quest, traveler was playing 3rd imposter for sure.
I never trusted them from the start, they both seemed too suspicious during the story quest, but after they revealed they've been agents for the Knave, I knew like puppets, we were going to be played by Arlecchino who will fight/hurt/attempt to sell us out at some point.
It makes sense especially if your playing the intelligence game and a long game at that. The other secret police or spy agencies around the other nations have similar people involved, Rosaria in Mond, Chori potentially for Inazuma, Yelan for Liyue, etc.
4:08 fr how the fxck is this possible? Lynette was inside the box, pretending to be Lyney, around 10 seconds before it was crushed by the water tank above. Literally how??? Where did she go? She escaped through the tunnel? Nope, cowell was coming UP from the tunnel.
OMFG this is exactly what I was saying my goodness... Yes lyney is sus as hell. No way he just let the theif go... Who charged Childe? It's not clear... Plus I bet it's all a act
But everyone is forgetting about fremanent they're younger brother in sure he played a part
I say we will have a jail break quest!!!
if they’re pretty, I’ll allow it.
With childe's track record, It won't be surprising that he feing innocence. He did lied to us in liyue too so maybe the accusation hold water
Did he? He was always open to who he was. He even said he hates deception. Him getting the Gnosis was no Surprise since we always knew he'd come for it.
Childe doesn't work with deception. This is shown with the Wild goose chase of Childe in Inazuma looking for Scara even though by that time he was in Sumeru. Also the Harbinger turned into a Debt Collector for the Northland bank?
It's clear Childe is just Muscle and would be trouble in any deception based operation.
@@arnowisp6244 He's much smarter than people give him credit for. He's hotheaded and that's what made it easy for Zhongli to control him. But he did find out the truth in a manner of seconds once he cooled down and thought it through. He also managed to obtain the info about the location of the Exuvia all on his own.
@@arnowisp6244 man probably got used by another Harbinger for their plan like in Liyue💀
Sav8ng this when the Twist that some people saw coming follows through. It will be fun to see everyone's reaction.😊
Finally, I found my people 😭 Yes, Lyney and Lynette backstory is sad, but they're part of an organisation that happily kills innocent people. I don't trust a word they say. If the game allowed me, I wouldn't talk with them at all.
I think Childe had to disappear or he's simply a way to make everyone focus on the Oratrice while Arlechino works on getting the gnosis.
Freminet is so overlooked he may be in on it too
in the next archon quest he will have a significant role yes
Yeah and there's even more issues with the story BUT in the end this approach has some problems. (1) The twins are playable characters and therefore good guys (2) they already did the apology routine so they can't play it again (3) so they can't be caught lying to the Traveler again.
As a result I reluctantly conclude that the story is on the level and we'll be told why it was important for Lyney to visit the Oratrice during the show. Maybe it responds to the feeling of the crowd so they figured getting everyone to count loudly would stir something up in it? We'll probably find out Childe really is guilty of the charges against him in some sense. Yeah we need explanations but it's only v4.0 so there's time for that.
I think the problem is the Oratrice itself. It’s incredibly sus. And the energy of the entire city is depended on its verdicts. I think the crowd is thrilled with guilty verdicts so it’s natural to assume that it will begin to deliver verdicts that make no kind of logical sense. 🤷♀️
Also Childe is not inherently good and he’s a playable character. He showed no remorse for trying to drown Liyue.
And Raiden, Zhongli, Xiao, Albedo all have a checkered past that make them morally gray, not good in the true sense of the word.
im pretty sure that if they just lied to the traveler again, there would be no way of forgiveness. im actually trusting lyney's words this time, i dont really think he would just create that whole backstory out of nowhere, also because it involves one of the most disturbing and disgusting things ive ever seen in genshin impact (i really wasnt expecting it)
i think the problem is something with the oratrice, or the hydro gnosis... maybe after we talk to furina this whole thing will be explained (or maybe not since it appears that she is completely confused)
It does not make sense that they purposely frame childe who is a harbringer. If thay want a scapegoat they can just find anybody to frame. Childe getting caught has something to do with involving himself in the disappearances.
My man, we literally have both Scaramouche and Childe as playable characters, they’re not good guys
@@maiafayBecause he Failed. He has nothing to feel bad about.
One thing that looking back on I am curious about... what the HELL happened to the Lynette lookalike in the bubble box, since it used Primordial Seawater... which melts fontainians as easily as a flamethrower does Ice cream?
Oratrice Mecanique d'Analyse Cardinale
Already Fooled, Im gonna be Delulu til the end. Lyney Simp
I have mastered the art of anti-simping, finally.
I don’t really believe this theory is true because all playable characters to be playable have to be on at least somewhat good terms with the traveler. I personally have a different theory. The oratrice takes energy from people’s sense of justice, and in Fontaine it’s well known harbingers are guilty of many crimes. Somebody in the audience even said “well, have you ever heard of an innocent fatui harbinger?” This supports the theory that the oratrice doesn’t take judgements from the evidence but from the people’s sense of justice. If this ends up being true it would explain why childe was guilty, Childe was considered guilty for many things by the people.
This is exactly what I thought of when he was found to be guilty. It was said and implied many times in the Fontaine Archon quest that the Fatui have done plenty of bad stuff. Going by how Furina instantly changes her chain of thought to match that of the 'audience' around her, it makes even more sense that the Oratrice found him guilty even if there was no real outside cause. Not only that, both Vacher and Childe come from the same nation, so perhaps Childe indirectly helped Vacher somehow.
Give Childe a break he’s being used in some messed up bs again 😭
Bro there’s so many inconsistencies with the twins story and how they went about it that or these were massive plot holes. Idk but I think the only way for the game to fix these is to make the twins the bad guys here😭. I really wanted them to be neutral and believe them but as soon as lyney said he “twisted his ankle” I knew I couldn’t trust what he said💀.
Regarding the end of your video, if this really is Arlecchino, lynette, and lyney's plan, then why would they want to make fonataine more vulnerable? Do they secretly not like fonataine for an unknkown reason ? 🤔🤔 From what we know Arlecchino, lyney and lynette feel the opposite..again unless they are lying for some reason..? 🤔🤔
WHAT IS THIS BACKROUND MUSIC CALLED? I KEEP TRYING TO FIND IT BUT I CAN’t
If you are talking about the first one, you can find it if you type "fontaine underwater ost number 2" on youtube. As for the second piece, I believe it's either number 3 or 4.
Childe is always being set up that’s the whole point of this character I’ve known for awhile now.
This makes sense but one thing I realised is if the Fatui are bad guys how come you can play as Childe? Maybe it isn't that deep but if Arlechinno is not playable I feel like they are setting up for Childe to leave the Fatui in Fontaine.
And why would all characters that we pull need to be good? Can't we just pull for villains?
We already know how Childe personality is but we don't know much about the twin and freminet also arlechinno, so it's reasonable for traveller to be on guard. I know not all fatui is bad but there's exist bad guy in fatui and we don't know whom
If childe leaves, his family will die.
not like he knows that, lol@@res6148
@@rainfruky4527 the game has been out for 3 years and he is the only "bad" guy you can play as, don't you think that's strange?
I connected some of these dots, but not all of them. I think this would make sense, but the question is... Will Hoyoverse do this?
Awesome theory. Atlantis is real tho. But awesome theory.
Sure 👍
Wait when does it say halsey was missing
wait what did i miss from the quest whos halsey 😅
Good video except Atlantis did exist
😄
Would genshin really allow a double twist and double betrayal to happen?
At this point Lyney is Banned from the Teapot.
@@arnowisp6244based
Not sure… maybe they’ll see the plot holes in the story and fix it? Someway!? Like how they fixed the question to how kazuha and gorou came to tenshukaku and it was by ayato
@@2triedforthis830 Aren't the quests already planned? like everything until natlan is probably already written
@@omarramy8454im sure they are halfway done with natlan story or are already at shneznaya story
🙌 *Promo sm*
First in comments
is a good theory
but the only bad point is..
CHILD IS GUILTY
HE SHOULD NOT EVEN BE ALIVE
HE SHOULD BE SIGNORATED
HE AND SCARA
THEY SHOULD BE DEAD
lyney and lynette where manipulated
scara is a b*tch and childe is just stuped
for me, they should not even get redemption archs if you can call them, that
i will never forgive mihoyo for that, specially scara
1 in jail, one more to go