As mortal bodied forms in the Lands of Middle Earth? Yeah, about right, but the difference here is that Sauron and the Balrogs would have been older than Galadriel "when they entered the continent of Middle Earth in Arca", otherwise pretty solid list. And yeah, wizards entered Middle Earth 2000 years before the war of the ring.
@@HeinrichMuller-mv6hn Tolkien literally says in a letter that Treebeard is not the most reliable source of lore! I’m sure Olorin chuckles to himself when Treebeard calls him young.
The Balrog was not awakened by the Fellowship of the Ring. It was awakened because the dwarves dug "too greedily and too deep" according to the source lore. After all, it's nickname was Durin's Bane. It would have to have been awake to be the bane of Durin.
@@Valdagast I would have thought Durin's Bane would have been a survivor from the first age where almost all the Balrogs under Gothmog were destroyed during the war.
Sauron and Durin's Bane are older than that because they were in Middle-Earth during the Chaining of Melkor, or during the Years of the Trees, thus they are older than Cirdan as he was born, likely one of the first or second generation of Elves to be born as he was 'kin of Thingol' as was Lord Celeborn of Lothlorien! Who was likely born during the Great March of the Elves!
Sauron and the Balrogs took their forms during the years of the Two Lamps when Melkors major stronghold was still in Utumno. Thus making them somewhere between 45000-55000 years old by the end of the third age.
@briankobleur4166 when the 2 robots see him at the time the robots we're with the tree ends they call Gandalf by name . Gandalf had Bern living in the afterlife when they come hete they forget most of that life Gandolf had forgotten his name . This means he had died and come back he was now less then a year old
Absolutely! I wonder if JRR Tolkien was familiar with HP Lovecraft? (I'm confident that he was at least aquainted with Chambers, Blackwood, and Machen- the pre-lovecraftian cosmic horror writers. Also, Poe.) Interesting, eh?
@@bholdr----0 He was writing letter about some book where one Lovecraft story was published. But also I think that people are projecting headcanons when finding lovecraftian stuff in LoTR.
@@arc7375 we all KNOW The creator of this video only includes their AGE after they arrived to arda Sauron arrived and took shape on earthly terms after galadriel was born, that's what this is about in given context
@@abobanger9054 That is dumb way to classify age! its like Hitler only became Hitler when he became fascist and his age starts from that point onwards.
@@pivson1634 no they didnt. maiar spirits freely travelled through the universes and more. obviously fixed physical bodies of balrogs cant travel through universe since balrog can be killed by any sword or like drown but cant leave their bodies such as other maiar and valar. they most likely created those bodies while they were descending or those bodies were provided to them by melkor after their descend. what you said may have been true if balrogs could leave physical bodies or shapeshit like valar and other maiar any time they want. balrog can't travel through universes with mortal bodies infinitely so their bodies have to be created after they touched down to arda.
@@pivson1634All Ainur, both Maiar and Valar, adopted a physical form when they landed on Arda. And their physical form was 'bound' to Arda, as was their fate. That was a kind of both blessing and curse, since while they got material bodies they also became more vulnerable, with a mortal body but still immortal spirit. The Ainur that chose to remain with Eru Illuvatar (an unknown but apparently high number) retained their non corporeal form.
Sauron and the Balrogs entered Middle-Earth before the awakening of the Elves at Cuiviénen therefore they are older than any Elf or Ent. The Nameless things may well have been created by Melkor when the Dark Lord first battle the Valar for control of Arda so they are probably younger than Tom Bombadil.
I think the nameless things were the result of Melkor's dissonant song that helped create Arda. So they would have been created at the same time Arda was created.
Bombadil cannot be Illuvatar since both Gandalf and Elrond said at the Council of Elrond that even Bombadil couldn't stand against Sauron if Sauron had conquered the rest of Middle Earth and Illuvatar's will cannot be thwarted or denied, as Melkor found out.
While I believe they are not one and the same, it could be that Bombadil was a flesh made avatar of illuvatar or someone else, with only a small leftover piece of their divinity, as well as a fragmented personality and limited memory of them. The writers of the Dragonlance novels did that (I think) with the old , seemingly senile wizard, Fizban, being a fragmented part, in physical avatar form, of Paladine, the god of good. I'm not saying that's what I believe Tom is, just pointing out a possibility. The wizards of middle earth were similar to this weren't they, in that, in physical/mortal form, they no longer had memories of their maiar existence, and their personalities were also likely slightly different in physical form. Kind of like they lost who they were when taking on a physical body and being cast to middle earth.
Also, in 3e D&D, a deity of sufficient rank could make an avatar, which was not the deity her/himself, but an entity that had a separate personality, but always acted in its maker's will, and the deity was perpetually seeing and hearing what their avatar saw and heard. Tom could be something like that possibly, though, I don't really suspect that either. I always suspected Tolkien just wanted an entity on middle earth that just lived happily, above and immune to all the goings on around him, and it was that simple. A figure of mystery.
Though to be fair what they say could be their interpretation of Tom. They could easily be wrong as they had no idea how he was able to resist the ring in the first place.
Ainur are literally beings who sang the concept of time into being. It makes no sense to give them ages. Yet if you want to do so, they entered into universe before anything was made and built it, and similarly built Arda. So ages of Sauron and Durin's bane should at very least be in the very beginning when Arda was being built. And no plants or animals yet existed, and world was unformed and full of flame.
This video is more about the age of Arda representations, as it has been described, and depicted in the Rings of Power Series, coming to Arda basically resets their entire life, they know what they know, but its incompatible to the world around them conceptually, so they are basically very intelligent children trying to figure out there way when they first arrive to Arda, basically being reborn from a timeless place into a place with time. Gandalf described it a few times, the before his incarnation as being timeless to them.
I know Tom personally He currently lives in a small rural city in Manitoba Canada called Portage La Prairie and he delivers the mail for Canada post, he makes home made meed (not very good) and is a master angler fishman He and Goldberry (a nurse) have 2 kids
Sauron is a Maia, who were among the first beings given life by Eru. Olorin (Gandalf) was as well, but he didn't take physical form until Varda convinced him to go to Middle-Earth in the second age. It's one of the reasons I will emphatically argue that Sauron is (technically) still alive, since mortals cannot kill a Maia. Tolkien contradicted himself several times as the story evolved.
@@jacobenke7936 Sauron may not be dead. No one said he was. But dead or not has nothing to do with my claim, which was that he is not older than the nameless things. This is simply a question of believing Gandalf or not. He said the nameless things were older than Sauron. You calling him a liar?
@@TomdeSablaSauron predates Eä itself, so he certainly is “older” than the Nameless Things. I can only assume that what Gandalf meant is that they had existed in Arda since before Sauron and all the other Ainur left the Timeless Halls and descended into Eä.
@@jacobenke7936 The goal was never to kill Sauron, killing him was known to be impossible. The immortal spirits of specific beings can never be killed unless Eru did it himself. The Valar, Maiar, etc, are all immortal spirits, including the elves. Their souls never die, they simply go elsewhere. For their corruption, they were banished from Eru's haven (basically heaven), into the Void, where they then latched onto the physical world, Arda, in order to not be lost forever to the Void. Sauron poured his tether to the world, into the ring, all of his willpower, to bind his spirit to Arda further, which is why him having it made him so dangerous. When the ring was destroyed, it destroyed Sauron's tether, and he become lost to the void. Melkor underwent a similar situation, and is lost to the void as well.
Suron, Balrogs and Istari (Gandalf, Saruman and the rest of the Wizards) descended to arda at the same time the Valar did. Meaning they're as old as the Valar themselves, created by Eru Iluvatar. They took their different forms later. I.e. The wizards were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to catch Sauron after Morgoth's defeat and they were sent in the form of old men so they couldn't use their full power in order to not interfere with the peoples of Middle-Earth. Long story shor, as I said, Sauron, Balrogs and the Wizards were as old as the Valar
I think the most saw the thumbnail and went straight to the comments as I did😂😂 to see someone trying to tell us that Angband was on numenor😂😂😂😂 absolute comedy gold❤ yeah you lost us sir with the ages not a good thing. If you make a Video about such a matter get your infos right 😊
Basically, the Istari, the Balrog, Sauron and Morgoth are the oldest beings in The Lord of the Rings, as they were created before time. Galadriel, as a Noldor Elf, is significantly younger, as she was born on Arda, which also applies to the other Elves and even Treebeard. The Nameless Beings and Tom Bombardil are a matter of negotiation, as it has never been fully clarified what they are and where they come from. Should the Nameless Beings be Ainur, they too would be older than time, but should they be dissonances in the Ainulindale, they would have been born with the world. Tom Bombardil is not Iluvatar, which actually rules him out as the oldest being, but nobody knows what he is either, so here too an Ainur would be conceivable, but he could also be something completely different
Galadriel would be closer to 27000 years old. She was born in the Years of the Trees when the years were calculated as Valian years. 1 valian year is about 144 solar years, so Galadriel would have been 19872 "solar years" old before the sun rose for the first time.
@@seanowheels They were originally, but in later writings he upped it 144. It was a late change in his life and he died before he could consolidate earlier timelines and whatnot.
You don't get it about the Maiar: 14. Not true, the wizards were Maiar, which were created during the Ainulindale. 7. Durins bane was also a Maia, and as such he was created during the Ainulindale. 6. Same for Sauron, he was a Maia.
@@wilmerschouten9453 let me tell another analogy.. we have painter, and we have dictator. Same person, different "filling" 😁 As Sauron he was "born" after joining Melkor
@@LinkenCV"Sauron" is only a different name given to an Ainu who had already taken part of Melkor's cacophony during the Ainulindalë, and had joined him for good before the destruction of the Lamps of Almaren at the latest, long before Elf or Onodrim ever existed.
Durin's Bane did not lie dormant until awakened by the Fellowship of the Ring. Durin's Bane was awakened by the dwarves of Khazad-Dum when they "delved too deep". Orcs alone could not have driven the dwarves from Moria.
Galadriel is way older than 8000, take into account time flowed differently before the sun and moon existing. That and a single lifetime of man is a single elf year. And that’s also considering long lived humans. Let me explain further with more of her story through the lens of her gift to Gimli - it has deeper meaning behind it, like most things in this movie & reflects the expanded lore of the middle earth universe. Galadriel is one of the 2-3 most powerful & wise elves remaining in Middle Earth since the time the land was young. She was born in a place called Valinor, or the Undying land... which is basically the place of residence of the Valar, the local pantheon, the local "gods" as you may call them. Back then, the world was not illuminated by the sun&moon, (only the stars, but rather by 2 trees of gold and silver, Telperion and Laurëlin that lit the world before the sun & moon were born from their last flower & fruit as they were basically killed by Melkor when he struck them with his Lance and Ungoliant the primordial Eldrich Terror vampirized the life force of the two trees. Ungoliant she was named by the Eldar/Elves). It is said that Galadriel's hair had enmeshed some of the shine and power of those two trees within her tresses. Her uncle Fëanor, who was a great king of the Elven people after his father Finwë was slain by Morgoth(Formally known as Melkor). Fëanor arguably was their greatest craftsman and warrior to ever live, asked if she could give him a lock of hair, so that he could use it to fashion 3 gems that would shine of the same light as the trees. Sensing his pride & a shadow that wasn’t exactly belonging to him brewing from within, she refused his request 3 times. He stopped asking and made the gems anyway, managing to complete the task he had set for himself even without her hair. Around these 3 gems, the possession of which became the driving force for many of the great events in the world, entire wars that lasted for centuries exploded, and other events. The gems actively shaped the fate of the races of middle earth to the point that the aforementioned Valar got involved directly. During these times, events surrounding the gems brought about the traditional enmity between Dwarves and Elves... the same enmity that Gimli still feels towards them. That enmity however does not survive his encounter with the wise Galadriel, whom Gimli basically falls platonically in love with. By giving him 3 of her hair, Galadriel is opening a door, offering an olive branch that might one day close the gap that divides these two races. Legolas, himself being an Elven prince and centuries old, knows of the story through his father Thranduil & grandfather Oropher, as it shaped the lives of all Elves, and his subtle smile is possibly the first act of acknowledgment and reconciliation. it is also a way for Peter Jackson, the director of the film, to give a nod to all of the fans who know these facts and backstories... a way to make us feel seen, and to make us appreciate just how deeply the makers of the film respect the books and larger universe created by Tolkien. The thing with the hair may seem weird, but there is a significance to it in real life as well as in the lore of the story. In real life, it was not uncommon for wives, fiancés, or even girlfriends to give their men (who were going off to war), a lock of their hair as a keepsake, particularly in WWI, which Tolkien fought in. The lore part of it comes into play in The Silmarillion, Tolkien's tales of the creation of Arda, the Undying Lands of Valinor, and Middle Earth. Galadriel is many, many thousands of years old, & was born in Valinor before the sun & moon were even created. At the time, the world was lit by two trees, one gold and one silver which would shine at different times from each other, but would shine together once a day when one would fade and the other brighten. Galadriel's hair was said to look like the light of the mingled light from the two trees, which may have inspired Feanor, a master craftsman and heir to the high king of the Ñoldor, to craft the Silmaril's which were three jewels that captured the light of the two trees, one golden light, one silver light, & one co-mingled light. Fëanor had a bit of a thing for Galadriel and begged her for her hair three different times, which she rejected because she could perceive the inner darkness of his heart and rejected him, which made them "un-friends" after that. There is a lot more to the lore than that, so this is the super crib-notes version. But the point is, it was VERY significant that she granted Gimli three of her hairs to a dwarf, when she would not to the son of her king many 10s of thousands of years ago of which she is related to all three kings who were brothers and Elu Thingol of Doriath was one of the brothers that didn’t stay in Valinor even though he was one of the elven ambassadors along with his three brothers and that king I mentioned was VERY close friends with Thingol)
@@Cutsman562 Galadriel’s Gift To Gimli part 2 - ever wondered how old Galadriel is during War of the Ring? many different sources & depending on where you look, she’s anywhere from 17,000-20,000 elf-years old. 6,000 seems too young as it would make her close in age to Elrond, who I know is much younger than her even though he’s 6000-8000 by the third age, which wouldn’t make sense for her at all even if she was (“690 elf-years older” as some kept repeating on the internet making 6960!)As she was around long before Elrond was even born and time was experience differently to say the LEAST as there is a lot to go into on that subject lol.) She was born during the Years of the Trees & back then the years were something like 9X longer than a solar year so I understand the math is hard, especially since she isn’t given an exact birth year. But it is said that Finarfin, her father, was born in Y.T. 1230, so I would assume she was born sometime within 1000 years of then (being generous). Basically, I’m wondering what the most accurate range is for her age during the events of Lord of the Rings. I’ll also add that Galadriel is was around before the ents even existed (of which Treebeard is 15,000 years old so she’s OLDER than Treebeard/Fangorn) or very close to when they were “created” by Yavannah and probably had much knowledge to do with such things and or direct knowledge of what happened. Probably through an early prototype of her mirror or simply another dream that made her long for middle earth all over again ontop of the yearning she already had to go there and explore. Nothing to do with Fëanor’s oath and all that jazz. (So by this current era in HUMAN solar years she’s like. 150,000 to 180,000 years old. Now that makes more sense if she’s going to be older than the sun and moon. Tolkien was always reiterating his manuscripts with the growing scientific discoveries.) though Treebeard/Fangorn in the deeper writings is older than Galadriel as he was one of first brought into life by Yavanna to help protect nature while it was put into enhanced hibernation by Yavanna to protect them from Morgoth’s Ring (the poisoning of the world itself which caused it to bleed its magic away over the ages called The Long Defeat by the elves.) Just going from the Appendices (and maybe Silmarillion) she would have to be at least 9000+ years older than Elrond, Elrond was born near the end of the First Age, Galadriel was adult before the destruction of the Trees. Actually, more than that: I just checked, and the Second Age ended in SA 3441. So an elf born literally at the end of the First Age (FA 590) is 3441+3018 = 6459 years old when Frodo leaves for Rivendell. Elrond was born in FA 532, so adds 58 years to get 6517. Elves are mature at 100, so Galadriel adds at leas 632 to Elrond's age, to be at least 7149, and possibly quite a bit more (as attested by other comments.) One fic had Maglor(Elrond’s Adoptive Father, Maedhros was also adoptive father alongside Maglor, they were the eldest sons of Fëanor) - One fic had as much older than Galadriel; I wondered how we knew, and it was pointed out to me that Maglor was the second oldest son of the first son of Finwë, while Galadriel is the youngest child of the third son of Finwë. So, yeah. Note that the second age was the LONGEST and again time was experienced very differently back then too aside from the internal clock of elves working very differently, she’s definitely older as far as the world and the other beings that age far faster around her. I also remind you all that she’s older than the sun and the moon and witnessed & most likely even helped in the Valar’s crafting what would be the vessels of the last fruit & flower of the two trees of Valinor. She was the most involved with learning everything possible from them and it was stated that she learned all there was to learn from ALL of the Valar that they could teach and she mastered all at a deep level. (Wow hey?) She’s 25th generation from Tata one of the elven forefathers to wake to the stars. Their birth was rather shrouded in mist. Only those of her grandfathers ilk have a chance of knowing the origins a bit better as they are closer to that culture that stemmed from the beginning. The Years of the Trees were the second of the three great time periods in Arda that followed the Years of the Lamps and preceded the Years of the Sun&Moon. They were known to be comprised of several Ages and lasted in total around 1500 Valian Years or 14,373 solar years. Time flowed differently back then and time flowed differently within them too for the elves live as long as the world does. Epic hey?❤❤ The Dúnedain said that Galadriel’s height was two rangar, or "man-high" - some 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm). However, Galadriel's most striking feature was her beautiful long silver-golden hair. The Elves of Tirion said it captured the radiance of the Two Trees Laurelin and Telperion themselves. Galadriel was said to be the tallest female in Middle Earth, at 6'4”. But then Thingol was the tallest elf ever to live, and he's estimated to be almost 9' (274 cm) Thingol was also a very very prominent figure within the Silmarillion and other books. He’s the great ancestor of Elrond+Arwen and through Aragorn being directly but distantly related to Elronds Twin Brother Elros it makes him loosely connected to Thingol as well. Let’s just say he died a tragic death long long ago. In a continent that doesn’t exist anymore. The events I spoke of in my earlier story of Elrond about his fathers deeds, which lead to the Valar helping with putting a Stop to Morgoth for good so to say and that War Of Wrath lasted 80 years straight and it left the landmass torn asunder from the clash of gods and the holy host of Vanyar elves that were closest to the Valar than all other elves so you can imagine what a bunch of mighty elves men and Maiar fighting a bunch of fowl creatures and beings for 80 years would do to a continent. It all fell into the sea. Galadriel barely made it over the mountain before that part of the story officially broke out.
@@Makkaru112 Time didn't flow different they just counted a longer period as a year. It would be Valian Years, not Elf Years, and it would be 6555 not 6960 and that's if it's the older 9.5 to 1 ratio, and not the later 144 to 1. If you count the 144 to 1 then she would have been nearly 20,000 years old at the end of the First Age.
In fact he left middelearth because he was "captured" by the numenorians and he led the island to their doom. But yes a lot of ages are kinda wrong. He counted Galadriel right, even counted the years she lived in Valinor before, but not the same for the istari? which lived in valinor as soon as the valar himself were there. So maybe they were only 2000 years present in middelearth they were much older
One wonders what all of these different entities did when not trying to kill each other or take over the world? Did they have a favorite pub or dark place to hang out and smoke their weed or drink their mead?
Yes they did. It was called "His Song" referring, of course, to the original music of the Ainur. However, the world (Arda) was changed and may well have changed again but the original hangout still exists. Oddly enough it became part of the "New World" and is located in Mexico. The name changed over the ages and it is now known as "Hussong's" and not surprisingly , is located on the coast in a town called "Ensenada". It is well known among sailors on the western coast of North America and is the finish line of a well known yacht race every year. The institutes of higher learning near the coast are very much aware of Hussong's. 🤣😆🤣
I'm not sure gwaihur would have 6,000 years. First lord of eagles was Thorondor, but whilst Gwaihir could have been alive at that time, I think it's never said that he was alive during wars in Beleriand.
Actually we know that the Witchking was NOT one of the Númenórean kings, because there is a reference to the strongest of the three Numenorean kings submitting to the greater magical power of the one who became the Witchking. Also like you said we first see the first versions of all of the nine in 2251 of the Second Age, but that means they had already been kings AND corrupted by that time and no way could they all have been corrupted at the same time , so even the youngest has to be like 50 years older than the 4209 years from that date to the ring's end.
@@miriamemanueleforneris3701 yeah technically and actually you are right! They have all that knowledge with them so how can you classify older creatures like that.
All Ainur spirits have the same age. To say that Magicians are 2000 years old is to completely not know Tolkien. Magicians, Balrogs, Sauron, Morgoth have the same age and he is about 10-50 thousand years old. Do not mislead people, if you had read the Silmarillion, then you would know that all the Ainur were created at the same time even before the creation of Arda
From The Nature of Middle Earth: 'It was a group of great Maiar to guard the Elves meanwhile. They were Tarindor (later Saruman), Olórin (Gandalf), Hrávandil (Radagast), Palacendo and Haimenar. They were led by Melian, who had travelled to Cuiviénen before the Five Guardians; she was the sixth Maiar guardian and was the only female spirit among them.' Plus, Palacendo (aka Pallando/Rómestámo) and Haimenar (Alatar/Morinehtar) came back in the mid-2nd Age along with Glorifindel to aid Gil-Galad in the War of Sauron and the Elves. Your chart is WAY wrong.
I recall Bombadil clearly stating he was the oldest he is a Maiar and remembers the first rain drop first seed "the oldest is what I am" Makes it sound like he was there "first" and is the oldest. That's from the authors own hand argument solved.
Tom is a rare example of direct allegory in Tolkien. He is the personification “(real) natural science”. And yes, not a Maiar. Tom is a part of the Earth, Maiar helped sing earth into existence and would be “older”. But now you’re counting the age of beings older than age.
@@ZephyrOptional I do recall from the silmaril he is a miarand miar well they didnt help illuvitar sing the world into existence only the valar did. But they were there to inhabit the planet not all valar avar or miar went only like half of each. He is a miar that arrived before even the first valar. was my take from the silmarillion.
@@Wattawalkka Eru did not sing. he manifested what the Valar and their helpers (or children in old versions) the Maiar sang. They are older than the world.
Bilbo was _at least_ 131 years old. He would not live forever in Eldamar, because the Valar can not take back the gift of man, but he and Frodo would be allowed to live until they voluntarily gave up their lives (in the same way Aragorn did).
Technically durins bane was awakened by the dwarves, not the company. He just became active when the goblins surrounded the company because he could probably sense another Maia nearby and was curious.
Even if you ignore the fact their creation predates the universe itself and only count when they permanently moved into Arda Sauron and Durin’s Bane would predate any of the elves or the Ents as they were around during the ages of the Lamps in the Spring of Arda. Only the Nameless Things and possibly Tom would have been around in Arda before them, assuming they came into being when Eä and Arda within it were created.
I believe Tom Bombadil could be the consciousness of Middle Earth itself. It could have developed a consciousness to experience things like emotion and general life, hence his love of nature.
Man... they should've dove headfirst into some of the more obscure characters in Rings of Power. So much potential... I can't believe they weren't able to navigate the legal issues of some of the characters.
There is a french Channel named "Terres oubliées" who stole your video. He took all your phrases and translate them with an AI voice. He stole from other Middle-Earth youtube creator like "Ink and Fantasy", "Tolkien Untangled" or "Realms unravelled"... :( "Ink and Fantasy" won his strike ! Hope you will too :)
A lot of this is wildly incorrect. Sauron, the Wizards and Balrogs are all Maiar, and thus were alive well before Arda was even created. We have no idea how old they are, and could be millions or billions of years old, or have had a transfinite existence. Putting them as being younger than Galadriel or Cirdan is ludicrous. The oldest thing in Arda was Ungoliant - since she existed before Arda was even created and was speculated to have come from the Void, if not be a manifestation of the Void herself - making her the longest-lived creature to ever exist until she devoured herself.
You didn't actually listen to the video did you? He clearly refers to these beings entering Middle Earth. Otherwise half the characters would be older than it.
young master gandalf im glad youve come. wood and water,stock and stone i can master. but there is a wizard here locked up in his tower. you know the tree is old when he says gandalf is young
Durin's Bane was not awakened by the Fellowship, it was awakened by the construction of the dwarven city of Khazad Dum. Also, it was a Maiar spirit corrupted by Melkor and so was the same age as every other Maiar
Balrogs were Maiar, and were beings before the making of the world. They were parts of the Great music, that sided with Morgoth. They were the same as Sauron.
He's probably just counting from the point that they arrived in Middle Earth and not Arda or creation itself. The Wizards themselves are demigods, who were born/created with the Valar, so they are as old as time.
Sauron, Durin’s bane and Gandalf known as Olorin before his arrival to Middle Earth are maïar. They were created by Eru before the world itself and sang with him during the Ainulindale. Just by looking at the thumbnail, I know that your video is poorly made.
I've always felt that Tom Bombadil was the avatar of Eru Illuvatar in Middle Earth. My theory is that he was there to help the mortal world without interfering in it. I also think Goldberry was the personification of Arda. A mother earth figure?
Even when took into consideration the artificial counting them from their formation on the world Galadriel is definitely not older than Sauron (and Cirdan for that matter) him being black captain of Melkor during Utumno´s war and before that member of the host of Aule forming the Arda which both predated wakey wakey for the elven folk.
Well, we also need to take into account him not having bodily form. By losing his form in the destruction of Numenor, would Sauron's ME age start over again? Is it based on physical form or presence in Middle Earth regardless of form? If having a physical form then Gandalf, Sauruman et al. would be as old as Sauron.
What a massive story to invent! The obsession with the ideas of characters, regions, and turning it into an entertaining and fluid tale is mind boggling.
Olorin was a maiar in valinor and he was known by many names and was implied to be Gandalf because in the silmarillion he was a friend of all middle earth except the east. So that would put Gandalf to be older than you claim.
Sauron and The balrogs have to be older than Galadriel since they were there during the creation of orcs as well as building of utumno , Galadriel was born after the sundering of the elves as a Noldor in Valinor , even if we are not counting there valyan years they are still much older than her
Sauron has been around since the breaking of the first silence...so he's been around since the creation of the world. Hes a maiar so hes older then all these beings on here except Gandolph!
Now that I think about it, it feels not that epic or horrific when Gandalf said: "A Balrog... a demon of the Ancient World." It is Maia but so is Gandalf and Saruman. It is old but still more or less the same age as most of the higher beings in Middle Earth.
Arwen was born in 241 of the Third Age. She had two older brothers, twins, born in 130 of the Third Age. Gladrial's Husband, Celeborn, is a Sindarin elf born during the Years of the Trees, so is older than Elrond. There are other elves also born in these times that were still in Middle Earth at the time of the War of the Rings. Treebeard is likely older than you mention somewhere between 17,000 and 25,000 years old. There are other Ents named that may be nearly as old.
This list is very inaccurate. First off, Galadriel is little more than 8,000 years old, Gandalf is about 55,000 years old, Sauron is about 71,462 years old... And so on....
Sauron (Mairón), Durin's Bane (A.K.A. Balrog of Morgóth) and the Wizards lived long before the "Ainulindale (The Songs of Ainur)." Regardless of their arrival in Middle Earth, because they were there when Arda has been formed before the two lamps (before the creation of the two trees). In regards of Tom Bombadil, he is a misterious character of Tolkien's lore and said to be the most ancient one and fatherless. Well, some of the Tolkien scholars theorized that he is indeed Erü Illúvatar himself, disguised as a jolly old man. Even the Quendi, the first awakened elves cannot say for sure his origin. Only the late J.R.R. Tolkien and his son, Christopher Tolkien know of his origin, for sure. The Nameless Things are one of those ancient creatures who have ever lived the Arda before the first awakening of the Quendi (the first elves) or maybe before the creation of Arda itself. Some theorized that they came from the void, but I cannot say anything about it for it has a vague explanation of their origin. But, even the Maiar do not dare to mess with those creatures for those are more powerful than them. Even Gandalf encountered one himself in the darkest depth of the Earth, but he chose not to disturb it for he was frightened by its presence.
Sam gazed in wonder at Galadriel as if Dawn blazed in dusky MiddleEarth inert, anaesthetized by beauty's spell acutely conscious of his puny worth if Celeborn were wiser, he'd discern how far above his station he had wed but even he's not dumb enough to spurn this mighty Noldo hot to share his bed the timeless moment passed, the tale moved on a brief vignette of love transgressing class 'though Bilbo might recast it in a song Sam'd never dream to call his host an ass to think such thoughts encrimsoned Sam's coarse face a worthy gard'ner knows a peasant's place
Correction: the closest approximation of Gandalf's physical age is 24,000 years, according to Gandalf himself. However, various dates for key events in Tolkien's other texts indicate that Gandalf actually walked in his physical form for just over two thousand years.
My interpretation of Tom is that he is some sort of earth spirit, much like his wife is water spirit, and was born the moment Eru made Earth a reality, before Maiar and Valar ascended there.
Gandalf clearly states he's lived more than 300 lives of man which means he's at least 15,000 years old those he is more likely to be around 34,000 years old
Hmm, either you don't know what you're talking about or you made this video just to get people upset, as clearly there's several things that aren't correct as already pointed out by many others :D
@@darkariefor one sauron (and probably any other maiar) have existed long before elves have awakened thus making sauron older than either galadriel or cirdan
@@darkarie Sauron and the balrog and the wizards existed in spirit form before the world was formed & (IF) you mean in years of existence on arda , then Sauron and the balrog are likely oldest
@@darkarie all maiars (gandalf, sauron, saruman) are around same age, comparison should be nearer between them. Its ok if info is not precise, but editor of the video used wrong parameters
I still believe Legolas was the Legolas guiding the refugees from Gondolin, send by Thranduil to support Turgon, would make him older than Elrond. Change my mind.
Suron, Balrogs and Istari (Gandalf, Saruman and the rest of the Wizards) descended to arda at the same time the Valar did. Meaning they're as old as the Valar themselves, created by Eru Iluvatar. They took their different forms later. I.e. The wizards were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to catch Sauron after Morgoth's defeat and they were sent in the form of old men so they couldn't use their full power in order to not interfere with the peoples of Middle-Earth. Long story shor, as I said, Sauron, Balrogs and the Wizards were as old as the Valar
In your thumbnail the ages are wrong. Gandalf is a Maia, an original, elemental being that went to Earth when it was formed and being developed for human habitation. meaning he is hundreds of thousands of years old, maybe millions. Galadriel is one of the oldest Elves,born before the Two Trees were made. She is at least tens of thousands of years old.
Sauron and Gandalf were, like all such beings, older than the Earth (middle Earth) and even helped design it by contributing to the original music that would create all the world/life in it - as were even the spirits that became Balrogs. Age is meaningless for these beings. What you mean to be saying is the time these creatures existed in/on middle earth.
Of course The Witch King was a fallen Numenorian. I have never doubted that since first discovering Tolkien 50+years ago. His description alone strongly suggests it. The Ringwraiths were all once powerful kings of man and there was no more powerful race of men than those of Numenor. It only follows that the most powerful one would have to be one of them. WHICH one is open to debate, but not that he was one before his fall and enslavement to Sauron
Tom Bombadil isn't Eru/Illuvatar. Tom Bombadil isn't anyone else ever mentioned or hinted at. Tom Bombadil is Tom Bombadil. That's the whole point. Source: Tolkien.
As mortal bodied forms in the Lands of Middle Earth? Yeah, about right, but the difference here is that Sauron and the Balrogs would have been older than Galadriel "when they entered the continent of Middle Earth in Arca", otherwise pretty solid list. And yeah, wizards entered Middle Earth 2000 years before the war of the ring.
Yeah mistake, Sauron entered the lands of Middle Earth in 1050 of the years of the trees and the Balrog's being there a bit earlier.
I always liked it when Treebeard greeted Gandalf “Young Master Gandalf”
Agreed😅😅😅
Tolkien say in a letter (153 I think) that Treebeard is not a reliable source of information.
the thing is Gandalf is only 700 yeras old. Olorin on the other Hand.
@@HeinrichMuller-mv6hn Tolkien literally says in a letter that Treebeard is not the most reliable source of lore! I’m sure Olorin chuckles to himself when Treebeard calls him young.
@@ZephyrOptional I never said anything about Olorin. But Gandalf the wizard is only 700 years old.
The Balrog was not awakened by the Fellowship of the Ring. It was awakened because the dwarves dug "too greedily and too deep" according to the source lore. After all, it's nickname was Durin's Bane. It would have to have been awake to be the bane of Durin.
Yeah, this video is not lore accurate.
@@Valdagast I would have thought Durin's Bane would have been a survivor from the first age where almost all the Balrogs under Gothmog were destroyed during the war.
@@generoberts9151I think that's the common understanding.
Yeah I'm about to going to correct the video but thanks for saving my time
Strange, I don't remember dwarves digging, then the fellowship went In There fought and woke it up ... that's what he means, you geek
Sauron and Durin's Bane are older than that because they were in Middle-Earth during the Chaining of Melkor, or during the Years of the Trees, thus they are older than Cirdan as he was born, likely one of the first or second generation of Elves to be born as he was 'kin of Thingol' as was Lord Celeborn of Lothlorien! Who was likely born during the Great March of the Elves!
Cirdan in one of the oldest he is one of the original elves that awaken in cuivenen
Sauron and the Balrogs took their forms during the years of the Two Lamps when Melkors major stronghold was still in Utumno. Thus making them somewhere between 45000-55000 years old by the end of the third age.
Gandalf died after killing the Barlog so he is less then 1 year old he resurrected raised dead or reincarnated
Correct.
@briankobleur4166 when the 2 robots see him at the time the robots we're with the tree ends they call Gandalf by name . Gandalf had Bern living in the afterlife when they come hete they forget most of that life Gandolf had forgotten his name . This means he had died and come back he was now less then a year old
The "nameless things" definitely have a H.P Lovecraft vibe!
Absolutely! I wonder if JRR Tolkien was familiar with HP Lovecraft? (I'm confident that he was at least aquainted with Chambers, Blackwood, and Machen- the pre-lovecraftian cosmic horror writers. Also, Poe.)
Interesting, eh?
@@bholdr----0 He was writing letter about some book where one Lovecraft story was published. But also I think that people are projecting headcanons when finding lovecraftian stuff in LoTR.
Calling them “nameless things” is in itself a name.
those images are straight up Shoggoths. :P
Not just a lovecraft vibe But some of the lower great old ones themselves
How can Galadriel be older than Sauron when he was around before the elves were created?
He is only countimg saurons age after he came to earth (as explained at the beginning of the video) otherwise every ainu is older than anything else
@@abobanger9054But they *are* older.
@@arc7375 we all KNOW
The creator of this video only includes their AGE after they arrived to arda
Sauron arrived and took shape on earthly terms after galadriel was born, that's what this is about in given context
@@abobanger9054 That is dumb way to classify age!
its like Hitler only became Hitler when he became fascist and his age starts from that point onwards.
@@samanyupalthi not my problem
I was explaining what was done
The real question is how old are Tom Bombadil's boots and who made them?
Maybe he didn't always wear boots. The elves could have made them for him.
These are the questions I came here for!
Dunno, but they're yellow.
I think they’re Crocs.
He is the same age as Arda. Since he remembers times when there were no trees, nor the Dark Lord.
The Maiar (including the Wizards & Balrogs) are older than Arda, as they participated in the Great Music.
Yea there's alot wrong with this video
he is talking about physical clothes of ainur , not their spirits.
obviously balrog didnt look like horned king kong before its descend
@@mar2506 Balrogs were Maiar and were corrupted by Melkor during creation of Arda. So they took their physical form during this corruption.
@@pivson1634 no they didnt.
maiar spirits freely travelled through the universes and more.
obviously fixed physical bodies of balrogs cant travel through universe since balrog can be killed by any sword or like drown but cant leave their bodies such as other maiar and valar.
they most likely created those bodies while they were descending or those bodies were provided to them by melkor after their descend.
what you said may have been true if balrogs could leave physical bodies or shapeshit like valar and other maiar any time they want.
balrog can't travel through universes with mortal bodies infinitely so their bodies have to be created after they touched down to arda.
@@pivson1634All Ainur, both Maiar and Valar, adopted a physical form when they landed on Arda. And their physical form was 'bound' to Arda, as was their fate.
That was a kind of both blessing and curse, since while they got material bodies they also became more vulnerable, with a mortal body but still immortal spirit.
The Ainur that chose to remain with Eru Illuvatar (an unknown but apparently high number) retained their non corporeal form.
Number one should be Tolkien, because he wrote the first letter and lived before it.
If that's the case, it's still Tom because he's from a book written before the hobbit
@@freddygow6116Tom is not older than Tolkien, so it’s not still Tom in first place
I think Tolkien's dad is older than him 🤔
Sauron and the Balrogs entered Middle-Earth before the awakening of the Elves at Cuiviénen therefore they are older than any Elf or Ent. The Nameless things may well have been created by Melkor when the Dark Lord first battle the Valar for control of Arda so they are probably younger than Tom Bombadil.
even if we ignore all of that, sauron was already in the middle earth when fingolfin's group (which also included galadriel )arrived there
I think the nameless things were the result of Melkor's dissonant song that helped create Arda. So they would have been created at the same time Arda was created.
Bombadil cannot be Illuvatar since both Gandalf and Elrond said at the Council of Elrond that even Bombadil couldn't stand against Sauron if Sauron had conquered the rest of Middle Earth and Illuvatar's will cannot be thwarted or denied, as Melkor found out.
Also, Tolkien explicitly said Bombadil is not Illuvatar.
While I believe they are not one and the same, it could be that Bombadil was a flesh made avatar of illuvatar or someone else, with only a small leftover piece of their divinity, as well as a fragmented personality and limited memory of them.
The writers of the Dragonlance novels did that (I think) with the old , seemingly senile wizard, Fizban, being a fragmented part, in physical avatar form, of Paladine, the god of good.
I'm not saying that's what I believe Tom is, just pointing out a possibility. The wizards of middle earth were similar to this weren't they, in that, in physical/mortal form, they no longer had memories of their maiar existence, and their personalities were also likely slightly different in physical form. Kind of like they lost who they were when taking on a physical body and being cast to middle earth.
Also, in 3e D&D, a deity of sufficient rank could make an avatar, which was not the deity her/himself, but an entity that had a separate personality, but always acted in its maker's will, and the deity was perpetually seeing and hearing what their avatar saw and heard.
Tom could be something like that possibly, though, I don't really suspect that either.
I always suspected Tolkien just wanted an entity on middle earth that just lived happily, above and immune to all the goings on around him, and it was that simple. A figure of mystery.
Bombadil is Tolkien ;)
Though to be fair what they say could be their interpretation of Tom. They could easily be wrong as they had no idea how he was able to resist the ring in the first place.
didn't expect C'thulhu monsters to win this one!
Ainur are literally beings who sang the concept of time into being. It makes no sense to give them ages.
Yet if you want to do so, they entered into universe before anything was made and built it, and similarly built Arda.
So ages of Sauron and Durin's bane should at very least be in the very beginning when Arda was being built. And no plants or animals yet existed, and world was unformed and full of flame.
not flame, water. Fire and Ice didn't exist until morgoth's corruption of nature.
This video is more about the age of Arda representations, as it has been described, and depicted in the Rings of Power Series, coming to Arda basically resets their entire life, they know what they know, but its incompatible to the world around them conceptually, so they are basically very intelligent children trying to figure out there way when they first arrive to Arda, basically being reborn from a timeless place into a place with time. Gandalf described it a few times, the before his incarnation as being timeless to them.
I know Tom personally
He currently lives in a small rural city in Manitoba Canada called Portage La Prairie and he delivers the mail for Canada post, he makes home made meed (not very good) and is a master angler fishman
He and Goldberry (a nurse) have 2 kids
Since the watcher in the water is a nameless thing, he is one of the oldest in tolkiens story (in terms of physical manifestation in the world).
It's just a theory, it's confirmed that that thing is a nameless thing
Well we know the nameless things are older than Sauron because Gandalf explicitly said so.
"Even Sauron knows them not, for they are older than he."
Sauron is a Maia, who were among the first beings given life by Eru. Olorin (Gandalf) was as well, but he didn't take physical form until Varda convinced him to go to Middle-Earth in the second age. It's one of the reasons I will emphatically argue that Sauron is (technically) still alive, since mortals cannot kill a Maia. Tolkien contradicted himself several times as the story evolved.
@@jacobenke7936 Sauron may not be dead. No one said he was. But dead or not has nothing to do with my claim, which was that he is not older than the nameless things.
This is simply a question of believing Gandalf or not.
He said the nameless things were older than Sauron.
You calling him a liar?
@@TomdeSablaSauron predates Eä itself, so he certainly is “older” than the Nameless Things. I can only assume that what Gandalf meant is that they had existed in Arda since before Sauron and all the other Ainur left the Timeless Halls and descended into Eä.
@@jacobenke7936 The goal was never to kill Sauron, killing him was known to be impossible. The immortal spirits of specific beings can never be killed unless Eru did it himself. The Valar, Maiar, etc, are all immortal spirits, including the elves. Their souls never die, they simply go elsewhere. For their corruption, they were banished from Eru's haven (basically heaven), into the Void, where they then latched onto the physical world, Arda, in order to not be lost forever to the Void. Sauron poured his tether to the world, into the ring, all of his willpower, to bind his spirit to Arda further, which is why him having it made him so dangerous. When the ring was destroyed, it destroyed Sauron's tether, and he become lost to the void. Melkor underwent a similar situation, and is lost to the void as well.
Suron, Balrogs and Istari (Gandalf, Saruman and the rest of the Wizards) descended to arda at the same time the Valar did. Meaning they're as old as the Valar themselves, created by Eru Iluvatar. They took their different forms later. I.e. The wizards were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to catch Sauron after Morgoth's defeat and they were sent in the form of old men so they couldn't use their full power in order to not interfere with the peoples of Middle-Earth. Long story shor, as I said, Sauron, Balrogs and the Wizards were as old as the Valar
I think the most saw the thumbnail and went straight to the comments as I did😂😂 to see someone trying to tell us that Angband was on numenor😂😂😂😂 absolute comedy gold❤ yeah you lost us sir with the ages not a good thing. If you make a Video about such a matter get your infos right 😊
Maybe he just watched the Rings of Power series and took info from there 😂
Thank you, I cannot believe this video was even made, it's ALL WRONG
Basically, the Istari, the Balrog, Sauron and Morgoth are the oldest beings in The Lord of the Rings, as they were created before time.
Galadriel, as a Noldor Elf, is significantly younger, as she was born on Arda, which also applies to the other Elves and even Treebeard.
The Nameless Beings and Tom Bombardil are a matter of negotiation, as it has never been fully clarified what they are and where they come from.
Should the Nameless Beings be Ainur, they too would be older than time, but should they be dissonances in the Ainulindale, they would have been born with the world.
Tom Bombardil is not Iluvatar, which actually rules him out as the oldest being, but nobody knows what he is either, so here too an Ainur would be conceivable, but he could also be something completely different
Definitely a fresh energetic personality to add the pod, great addition to
Galadriel would be closer to 27000 years old. She was born in the Years of the Trees when the years were calculated as Valian years. 1 valian year is about 144 solar years, so Galadriel would have been 19872 "solar years" old before the sun rose for the first time.
Gilf
Oh dang, I thought Valian years were only 9.5 solar years.
Someone read Nature of Middle Earth 💖. Lots of elf math in that book.
the geekdom is strooooong with thee
@@seanowheels They were originally, but in later writings he upped it 144. It was a late change in his life and he died before he could consolidate earlier timelines and whatnot.
You don't get it about the Maiar:
14. Not true, the wizards were Maiar, which were created during the Ainulindale.
7. Durins bane was also a Maia, and as such he was created during the Ainulindale.
6. Same for Sauron, he was a Maia.
6. Mairon older. How can I put it? Same person, but different "filling"
@@LinkenCVdifferent forms, you mean? first mairon, then sauron? that's true but it is still the same Maia
@@wilmerschouten9453 let me tell another analogy.. we have painter, and we have dictator. Same person, different "filling" 😁
As Sauron he was "born" after joining Melkor
@user-qd2nd6hi8j i think i know what you mean but what exactly is the link between dictator and painter?
@@LinkenCV"Sauron" is only a different name given to an Ainu who had already taken part of Melkor's cacophony during the Ainulindalë, and had joined him for good before the destruction of the Lamps of Almaren at the latest, long before Elf or Onodrim ever existed.
He said Treebeard is “Eleven Thousand TREE-hundred years old!” 🤣
All joking aside, I enjoyed the vid, mate! 👍🏻💯
6:37 eleven thousand tree hundred years… seems fitting
I think you are wrong. The wizards were older than Galadriel. Gandalf even mentioned that he is about 30,000 years old.
Durin's Bane did not lie dormant until awakened by the Fellowship of the Ring.
Durin's Bane was awakened by the dwarves of Khazad-Dum when they "delved too deep". Orcs alone could not have driven the dwarves from Moria.
No wonder Legolas has mastered the bow in 3000 years
Galadriel is way older than 8000, take into account time flowed differently before the sun and moon existing. That and a single lifetime of man is a single elf year. And that’s also considering long lived humans. Let me explain further with more of her story through the lens of her gift to Gimli - it has deeper meaning behind it, like most things in this movie & reflects the expanded lore of the middle earth universe. Galadriel is one of the 2-3 most powerful & wise elves remaining in Middle Earth since the time the land was young. She was born in a place called Valinor, or the Undying land... which is basically the place of residence of the Valar, the local pantheon, the local "gods" as you may call them.
Back then, the world was not illuminated by the sun&moon, (only the stars, but rather by 2 trees of gold and silver, Telperion and Laurëlin that lit the world before the sun & moon were born from their last flower & fruit as they were basically killed by Melkor when he struck them with his Lance and Ungoliant the primordial Eldrich Terror vampirized the life force of the two trees. Ungoliant she was named by the Eldar/Elves).
It is said that Galadriel's hair had enmeshed some of the shine and power of those two trees within her tresses. Her uncle Fëanor, who was a great king of the Elven people after his father Finwë was slain by Morgoth(Formally known as Melkor).
Fëanor arguably was their greatest craftsman and warrior to ever live, asked if she could give him a lock of hair, so that he could use it to fashion 3 gems that would shine of the same light as the trees. Sensing his pride & a shadow that wasn’t exactly belonging to him brewing from within, she refused his request 3 times. He stopped asking and made the gems anyway, managing to complete the task he had set for himself even without her hair.
Around these 3 gems, the possession of which became the driving force for many of the great events in the world, entire wars that lasted for centuries exploded, and other events. The gems actively shaped the fate of the races of middle earth to the point that the aforementioned Valar got involved directly. During these times, events surrounding the gems brought about the traditional enmity between Dwarves and Elves... the same enmity that Gimli still feels towards them.
That enmity however does not survive his encounter with the wise Galadriel, whom Gimli basically falls platonically in love with. By giving him 3 of her hair, Galadriel is opening a door, offering an olive branch that might one day close the gap that divides these two races. Legolas, himself being an Elven prince and centuries old, knows of the story through his father Thranduil & grandfather Oropher, as it shaped the lives of all Elves, and his subtle smile is possibly the first act of acknowledgment and reconciliation.
it is also a way for Peter Jackson, the director of the film, to give a nod to all of the fans who know these facts and backstories... a way to make us feel seen, and to make us appreciate just how deeply the makers of the film respect the books and larger universe created by Tolkien.
The thing with the hair may seem weird, but there is a significance to it in real life as well as in the lore of the story. In real life, it was not uncommon for wives, fiancés, or even girlfriends to give their men (who were going off to war), a lock of their hair as a keepsake, particularly in WWI, which Tolkien fought in.
The lore part of it comes into play in The Silmarillion, Tolkien's tales of the creation of Arda, the Undying Lands of Valinor, and Middle Earth. Galadriel is many, many thousands of years old, & was born in Valinor before the sun & moon were even created.
At the time, the world was lit by two trees, one gold and one silver which would shine at different times from each other, but would shine together once a day when one would fade and the other brighten. Galadriel's hair was said to look like the light of the mingled light from the two trees, which may have inspired Feanor, a master craftsman and heir to the high king of the Ñoldor, to craft the Silmaril's which were three jewels that captured the light of the two trees, one golden light, one silver light, & one co-mingled light.
Fëanor had a bit of a thing for Galadriel and begged her for her hair three different times, which she rejected because she could perceive the inner darkness of his heart and rejected him, which made them "un-friends" after that. There is a lot more to the lore than that, so this is the super crib-notes version. But the point is, it was VERY significant that she granted Gimli three of her hairs to a dwarf, when she would not to the son of her king many 10s of thousands of years ago of which she is related to all three kings who were brothers and Elu Thingol of Doriath was one of the brothers that didn’t stay in Valinor even though he was one of the elven ambassadors along with his three brothers and that king I mentioned was VERY close friends with Thingol)
I read this whole thing. Your lore knowledge is deeply. You should make your own video on this topic!
@@Cutsman562 Galadriel’s Gift To Gimli part 2 - ever wondered how old Galadriel is during War of the Ring? many different sources & depending on where you look, she’s anywhere from 17,000-20,000 elf-years old. 6,000 seems too young as it would make her close in age to Elrond, who I know is much younger than her even though he’s 6000-8000 by the third age, which wouldn’t make sense for her at all even if she was (“690 elf-years older” as some kept repeating on the internet making 6960!)As she was around long before Elrond was even born and time was experience differently to say the LEAST as there is a lot to go into on that subject lol.)
She was born during the Years of the Trees & back then the years were something like 9X longer than a solar year so I understand the math is hard, especially since she isn’t given an exact birth year. But it is said that Finarfin, her father, was born in Y.T. 1230, so I would assume she was born sometime within 1000 years of then (being generous).
Basically, I’m wondering what the most accurate range is for her age during the events of Lord of the Rings.
I’ll also add that Galadriel is was around before the ents even existed (of which Treebeard is 15,000 years old so she’s OLDER than Treebeard/Fangorn) or very close to when they were “created” by Yavannah and probably had much knowledge to do with such things and or direct knowledge of what happened.
Probably through an early prototype of her mirror or simply another dream that made her long for middle earth all over again ontop of the yearning she already had to go there and explore. Nothing to do with Fëanor’s oath and all that jazz.
(So by this current era in HUMAN solar years she’s like. 150,000 to 180,000 years old. Now that makes more sense if she’s going to be older than the sun and moon. Tolkien was always reiterating his manuscripts with the growing scientific discoveries.)
though Treebeard/Fangorn in the deeper writings is older than Galadriel as he was one of first brought into life by Yavanna to help protect nature while it was put into enhanced hibernation by Yavanna to protect them from Morgoth’s Ring (the poisoning of the world itself which caused it to bleed its magic away over the ages called The Long Defeat by the elves.)
Just going from the Appendices (and maybe Silmarillion) she would have to be at least 9000+ years older than Elrond, Elrond was born near the end of the First Age, Galadriel was adult before the destruction of the Trees.
Actually, more than that: I just checked, and the Second Age ended in SA 3441. So an elf born literally at the end of the First Age (FA 590) is 3441+3018 = 6459 years old when Frodo leaves for Rivendell.
Elrond was born in FA 532, so adds 58 years to get 6517. Elves are mature at 100, so Galadriel adds at leas 632 to Elrond's age, to be at least 7149, and possibly quite a bit more (as attested by other comments.)
One fic had Maglor(Elrond’s Adoptive Father, Maedhros was also adoptive father alongside Maglor, they were the eldest sons of Fëanor) - One fic had as much older than Galadriel; I wondered how we knew, and it was pointed out to me that Maglor was the second oldest son of the first son of Finwë, while Galadriel is the youngest child of the third son of Finwë. So, yeah.
Note that the second age was the LONGEST and again time was experienced very differently back then too aside from the internal clock of elves working very differently, she’s definitely older as far as the world and the other beings that age far faster around her.
I also remind you all that she’s older than the sun and the moon and witnessed & most likely even helped in the Valar’s crafting what would be the vessels of the last fruit & flower of the two trees of Valinor.
She was the most involved with learning everything possible from them and it was stated that she learned all there was to learn from ALL of the Valar that they could teach and she mastered all at a deep level. (Wow hey?)
She’s 25th generation from Tata one of the elven forefathers to wake to the stars. Their birth was rather shrouded in mist. Only those of her grandfathers ilk have a chance of knowing the origins a bit better as they are closer to that culture that stemmed from the beginning.
The Years of the Trees were the second of the three great time periods in Arda that followed the Years of the Lamps and preceded the Years of the Sun&Moon. They were known to be comprised of several Ages and lasted in total around 1500 Valian Years or 14,373 solar years.
Time flowed differently back then and time flowed differently within them too for the elves live as long as the world does. Epic hey?❤❤
The Dúnedain said that Galadriel’s height was two rangar, or "man-high" - some 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm). However, Galadriel's most striking feature was her beautiful long silver-golden hair.
The Elves of Tirion said it captured the radiance of the Two Trees Laurelin and Telperion themselves. Galadriel was said to be the tallest female in Middle Earth, at 6'4”. But then Thingol was the tallest elf ever to live, and he's estimated to be almost 9' (274 cm)
Thingol was also a very very prominent figure within the Silmarillion and other books. He’s the great ancestor of Elrond+Arwen and through Aragorn being directly but distantly related to Elronds Twin Brother Elros it makes him loosely connected to Thingol as well. Let’s just say he died a tragic death long long ago.
In a continent that doesn’t exist anymore. The events I spoke of in my earlier story of Elrond about his fathers deeds, which lead to the Valar helping with putting a Stop to Morgoth for good so to say and that War Of Wrath lasted 80 years straight and it left the landmass torn asunder from the clash of gods and the holy host of Vanyar elves that were closest to the Valar than all other elves so you can imagine what a bunch of mighty elves men and Maiar fighting a bunch of fowl creatures and beings for 80 years would do to a continent. It all fell into the sea.
Galadriel barely made it over the mountain before that part of the story officially broke out.
@@Makkaru112 Time didn't flow different they just counted a longer period as a year. It would be Valian Years, not Elf Years, and it would be 6555 not 6960 and that's if it's the older 9.5 to 1 ratio, and not the later 144 to 1. If you count the 144 to 1 then she would have been nearly 20,000 years old at the end of the First Age.
was supprised we didn't get smaug on the list...that dragon must have been very old
Not so much he says himself that he was young when he took Erebor.
No he was actually too young
very powerful for a dragon, but not necessarily very old
You got Sauron wrong I’m afraid. He look form during the age of lamps before the Elves even woke up and never left Middle Earth.
In fact he left middelearth because he was "captured" by the numenorians and he led the island to their doom. But yes a lot of ages are kinda wrong. He counted Galadriel right, even counted the years she lived in Valinor before, but not the same for the istari? which lived in valinor as soon as the valar himself were there. So maybe they were only 2000 years present in middelearth they were much older
One wonders what all of these different entities did when not trying to kill each other or take over the world? Did they have a favorite pub or dark place to hang out and smoke their weed or drink their mead?
Yes they did. It was called "His Song" referring, of course, to the original music of the Ainur. However, the world (Arda) was changed and may well have changed again but the original hangout still exists. Oddly enough it became part of the "New World" and is located in Mexico. The name changed over the ages and it is now known as "Hussong's" and not surprisingly , is located on the coast in a town called "Ensenada". It is well known among sailors on the western coast of North America and is the finish line of a well known yacht race every year. The institutes of higher learning near the coast are very much aware of Hussong's. 🤣😆🤣
Imagine how bored you must get sitting at a harbor for over 10,000 years. My god. No pub is going to cure that boredom.
This list has the ages wrong!
I'm not sure gwaihur would have 6,000 years. First lord of eagles was Thorondor, but whilst Gwaihir could have been alive at that time, I think it's never said that he was alive during wars in Beleriand.
Thank you for that comment I was thinking the exact thing and wondering why no one else mentioned it!
Actually we know that the Witchking was NOT one of the Númenórean kings, because there is a reference to the strongest of the three Numenorean kings submitting to the greater magical power of the one who became the Witchking. Also like you said we first see the first versions of all of the nine in 2251 of the Second Age, but that means they had already been kings AND corrupted by that time and no way could they all have been corrupted at the same time , so even the youngest has to be like 50 years older than the 4209 years from that date to the ring's end.
If we want tò be tecnical, maiar and Valar stayed in the halls of iluvatar where time didnt exist, so they can literally have infinite years or 2
Their Ages in the Lands of middle Earth, that's the point of the video... Listen to the content
@@Reuben5120 ok, ok
@@miriamemanueleforneris3701 yeah technically and actually you are right! They have all that knowledge with them so how can you classify older creatures like that.
Aside from which, they were the ones who literally created Arda. There would be no time whatsoever without them.
@@Reuben5120 Even by that, its still incredibly wrong . . .
All Ainur spirits have the same age. To say that Magicians are 2000 years old is to completely not know Tolkien. Magicians, Balrogs, Sauron, Morgoth have the same age and he is about 10-50 thousand years old. Do not mislead people, if you had read the Silmarillion, then you would know that all the Ainur were created at the same time even before the creation of Arda
From The Nature of Middle Earth: 'It was a group of great Maiar to guard the Elves meanwhile. They were Tarindor (later Saruman), Olórin (Gandalf), Hrávandil (Radagast), Palacendo and Haimenar. They were led by Melian, who had travelled to Cuiviénen before the Five Guardians; she was the sixth Maiar guardian and was the only female spirit among them.'
Plus, Palacendo (aka Pallando/Rómestámo) and Haimenar (Alatar/Morinehtar) came back in the mid-2nd Age along with Glorifindel to aid Gil-Galad in the War of Sauron and the Elves.
Your chart is WAY wrong.
Sauron, Gandalf and Durin's Bane are the oldest on this list, as they are all Maiar, and existed before the making of Arda.
I could tell by your thumbnail you already made several errors. in no way is Galadrial older than any of Aniur, including the wizards.
I recall Bombadil clearly stating he was the oldest he is a Maiar and remembers the first rain drop first seed "the oldest is what I am" Makes it sound like he was there "first" and is the oldest. That's from the authors own hand argument solved.
Tom Bombadil is not a Maiar. Tolkien never actually fully decided what he is, it is left purposely vague.
Tom is a rare example of direct allegory in Tolkien. He is the personification “(real) natural science”. And yes, not a Maiar. Tom is a part of the Earth, Maiar helped sing earth into existence and would be “older”. But now you’re counting the age of beings older than age.
@@ZephyrOptional I do recall from the silmaril he is a miarand miar well they didnt help illuvitar sing the world into existence only the valar did. But they were there to inhabit the planet not all valar avar or miar went only like half of each. He is a miar that arrived before even the first valar. was my take from the silmarillion.
@@ZephyrOptional Gandalf is a miar as well though it never says it in the lotr or hobbit, him and the rest of the ishtari.
@@Wattawalkka Eru did not sing. he manifested what the Valar and their helpers (or children in old versions) the Maiar sang. They are older than the world.
Sauron is older than Galadriel by a country mile
Bilbo was _at least_ 131 years old. He would not live forever in Eldamar, because the Valar can not take back the gift of man, but he and Frodo would be allowed to live until they voluntarily gave up their lives (in the same way Aragorn did).
Technically durins bane was awakened by the dwarves, not the company. He just became active when the goblins surrounded the company because he could probably sense another Maia nearby and was curious.
Even if you ignore the fact their creation predates the universe itself and only count when they permanently moved into Arda Sauron and Durin’s Bane would predate any of the elves or the Ents as they were around during the ages of the Lamps in the Spring of Arda. Only the Nameless Things and possibly Tom would have been around in Arda before them, assuming they came into being when Eä and Arda within it were created.
I believe Tom Bombadil could be the consciousness of Middle Earth itself. It could have developed a consciousness to experience things like emotion and general life, hence his love of nature.
Man... they should've dove headfirst into some of the more obscure characters in Rings of Power. So much potential... I can't believe they weren't able to navigate the legal issues of some of the characters.
There is a french Channel named "Terres oubliées" who stole your video.
He took all your phrases and translate them with an AI voice.
He stole from other Middle-Earth youtube creator like "Ink and Fantasy", "Tolkien Untangled" or "Realms unravelled"... :(
"Ink and Fantasy" won his strike ! Hope you will too :)
Did you include time for the wizards from the first time they were in middle earth? That would add about 480 solar years
The Witch King wasn't properly alive at the time of Pellinor Fields.
A lot of this is wildly incorrect.
Sauron, the Wizards and Balrogs are all Maiar, and thus were alive well before Arda was even created. We have no idea how old they are, and could be millions or billions of years old, or have had a transfinite existence. Putting them as being younger than Galadriel or Cirdan is ludicrous.
The oldest thing in Arda was Ungoliant - since she existed before Arda was even created and was speculated to have come from the Void, if not be a manifestation of the Void herself - making her the longest-lived creature to ever exist until she devoured herself.
Answer me this, did the wizards, sauron and balrogs enter into their mortal/middle Earth forms before or after Cirdan's awakening in that place?
@@mindq4328 Sauron was in Morgoth's service in Utumno much before than the awakening of the first elvenkind...
@@mindq4328I'm pretty sure that Sauran was walking around Arda like the rest of the valar/maiar during the age of the lamps
You didn't actually listen to the video did you? He clearly refers to these beings entering Middle Earth. Otherwise half the characters would be older than it.
Sauron was around in arda before the elves awakened
young master gandalf im glad youve come. wood and water,stock and stone i can master. but there is a wizard here locked up in his tower.
you know the tree is old when he says gandalf is young
Thats bc gandalf and the other wizards didnt come to middle earth till the third age but are older than middle earth and the elfs
ha. When Tom Bombadil talked about dark lord he meant Eru Iluvatar.
Durin's Bane was not awakened by the Fellowship, it was awakened by the construction of the dwarven city of Khazad Dum. Also, it was a Maiar spirit corrupted by Melkor and so was the same age as every other Maiar
Not exactly by the construction of Khazad Dum, the dwarves went deeper into the mountain after Mithril that they could mine.
Thank you.
Balrogs were Maiar, and were beings before the making of the world. They were parts of the Great music, that sided with Morgoth. They were the same as Sauron.
Wow so you didn't listen to a word that was said in the video
@@mindq4328the video is full of inaccuracies
The wizards are 2000 yo? No way. Gandalf literally says: "300 lives of men, I have walked this earth". Which means he's at least 8000-10000 yo.
He's probably just counting from the point that they arrived in Middle Earth and not Arda or creation itself. The Wizards themselves are demigods, who were born/created with the Valar, so they are as old as time.
Sauron, Durin’s bane and Gandalf known as Olorin before his arrival to Middle Earth are maïar. They were created by Eru before the world itself and sang with him during the Ainulindale.
Just by looking at the thumbnail, I know that your video is poorly made.
I read all the Tom Bombadil bits and ended up older than all of these.
I've always felt that Tom Bombadil was the avatar of Eru Illuvatar in Middle Earth. My theory is that he was there to help the mortal world without interfering in it. I also think Goldberry was the personification of Arda. A mother earth figure?
Even when took into consideration the artificial counting them from their formation on the world Galadriel is definitely not older than Sauron (and Cirdan for that matter) him being black captain of Melkor during Utumno´s war and before that member of the host of Aule forming the Arda which both predated wakey wakey for the elven folk.
Well, we also need to take into account him not having bodily form. By losing his form in the destruction of Numenor, would Sauron's ME age start over again? Is it based on physical form or presence in Middle Earth regardless of form? If having a physical form then Gandalf, Sauruman et al. would be as old as Sauron.
@@guibox3Sauron has a physical form. Gollum described him as having 9 fingers
Tom Bombadil...... I want more of him
What a massive story to invent! The obsession with the ideas of characters, regions, and turning it into an entertaining and fluid tale is mind boggling.
Saurons older than galadriel and most others as he was created before middle earth
Think gilidriel from rings of power til the movie trilogy must have suffered from an enormous wound to her vocal box
Olorin was a maiar in valinor and he was known by many names and was implied to be Gandalf because in the silmarillion he was a friend of all middle earth except the east. So that would put Gandalf to be older than you claim.
"Before kicking the mithril bucket" 😂
Sauron and The balrogs have to be older than Galadriel since they were there during the creation of orcs as well as building of utumno , Galadriel was born after the sundering of the elves as a Noldor in Valinor , even if we are not counting there valyan years they are still much older than her
Sauron has been around since the breaking of the first silence...so he's been around since the creation of the world. Hes a maiar so hes older then all these beings on here except Gandolph!
Valar and Maiar should be almost as old as the Nameless Ones since they were created by Illuvatar before Arda.
Now that I think about it, it feels not that epic or horrific when Gandalf said: "A Balrog... a demon of the Ancient World." It is Maia but so is Gandalf and Saruman. It is old but still more or less the same age as most of the higher beings in Middle Earth.
Normal men? Just innocent men?
Arwen was born in 241 of the Third Age. She had two older brothers, twins, born in 130 of the Third Age.
Gladrial's Husband, Celeborn, is a Sindarin elf born during the Years of the Trees, so is older than Elrond.
There are other elves also born in these times that were still in Middle Earth at the time of the War of the Rings.
Treebeard is likely older than you mention somewhere between 17,000 and 25,000 years old. There are other Ents named that may be nearly as old.
Shelob being 6000 years old, oh man did she get shit on during the battle of middle earth games.
This list is very inaccurate. First off, Galadriel is little more than 8,000 years old, Gandalf is about 55,000 years old, Sauron is about 71,462 years old... And so on....
Sauron (Mairón), Durin's Bane (A.K.A. Balrog of Morgóth) and the Wizards lived long before the "Ainulindale (The Songs of Ainur)." Regardless of their arrival in Middle Earth, because they were there when Arda has been formed before the two lamps (before the creation of the two trees).
In regards of Tom Bombadil, he is a misterious character of Tolkien's lore and said to be the most ancient one and fatherless. Well, some of the Tolkien scholars theorized that he is indeed Erü Illúvatar himself, disguised as a jolly old man. Even the Quendi, the first awakened elves cannot say for sure his origin. Only the late J.R.R. Tolkien and his son, Christopher Tolkien know of his origin, for sure.
The Nameless Things are one of those ancient creatures who have ever lived the Arda before the first awakening of the Quendi (the first elves) or maybe before the creation of Arda itself. Some theorized that they came from the void, but I cannot say anything about it for it has a vague explanation of their origin. But, even the Maiar do not dare to mess with those creatures for those are more powerful than them. Even Gandalf encountered one himself in the darkest depth of the Earth, but he chose not to disturb it for he was frightened by its presence.
The thumbnail alone made me say "Hol up!"
Sam gazed in wonder at Galadriel
as if Dawn blazed in dusky MiddleEarth
inert, anaesthetized by beauty's spell
acutely conscious of his puny worth
if Celeborn were wiser, he'd discern
how far above his station he had wed
but even he's not dumb enough to spurn
this mighty Noldo hot to share his bed
the timeless moment passed, the tale moved on
a brief vignette of love transgressing class
'though Bilbo might recast it in a song
Sam'd never dream to call his host an ass
to think such thoughts encrimsoned Sam's coarse face
a worthy gard'ner knows a peasant's place
Sauron existed at the time of which the elves were created.
Correction: the closest approximation of Gandalf's physical age is 24,000 years, according to Gandalf himself. However, various dates for key events in Tolkien's other texts indicate that Gandalf actually walked in his physical form for just over two thousand years.
All the wizards, Sauron, and the Balrogs are literally ageless. They precede the creation of the world so are the oldest beings to walk middle earth
My interpretation of Tom is that he is some sort of earth spirit, much like his wife is water spirit, and was born the moment Eru made Earth a reality, before Maiar and Valar ascended there.
Kind of nuts that Legalos is almost a thousand years older than Gandalf
He's not. Gandalf is a Maia, and was alive at the time of the music, if not possessed of a physical form.
Gandalf clearly states he's lived more than 300 lives of man which means he's at least 15,000 years old those he is more likely to be around 34,000 years old
Hmm, either you don't know what you're talking about or you made this video just to get people upset, as clearly there's several things that aren't correct as already pointed out by many others :D
This is an embarrassing and bad list
explain why
@@darkariefor one sauron (and probably any other maiar) have existed long before elves have awakened thus making sauron older than either galadriel or cirdan
@@darkarie Sauron and the balrog and the wizards existed in spirit form before the world was formed & (IF) you mean in years of existence on arda , then Sauron and the balrog are likely oldest
@@darkarie all maiars (gandalf, sauron, saruman) are around same age, comparison should be nearer between them. Its ok if info is not precise, but editor of the video used wrong parameters
(There are much more maiars btw)
I still believe Legolas was the Legolas guiding the refugees from Gondolin, send by Thranduil to support Turgon, would make him older than Elrond. Change my mind.
Suron, Balrogs and Istari (Gandalf, Saruman and the rest of the Wizards) descended to arda at the same time the Valar did. Meaning they're as old as the Valar themselves, created by Eru Iluvatar. They took their different forms later. I.e. The wizards were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to catch Sauron after Morgoth's defeat and they were sent in the form of old men so they couldn't use their full power in order to not interfere with the peoples of Middle-Earth. Long story shor, as I said, Sauron, Balrogs and the Wizards were as old as the Valar
i thought bilbo celebrated his 111th birthday before he used the ring to dissapear and head out with the elfes?
Why didn’t you include Durin the Deathless who lived to be at least 2395 years old?
Because he died a "little bit" before the end of the Third Age? So he can't be one of the oldest beings at that point in time.
@@kaltaron1284 he awoke sometime during the years of the trees and he died just before the end of the First age.
@@jonathanthomas4182 Yes. So he doesn't count for a list set at the end of the Third Age.
Sauron, Gandalf, the Balrog, Saurmon, ect are as old as time itself in this universe because they were created by Eru at the dawn of creation.
In your thumbnail the ages are wrong. Gandalf is a Maia, an original, elemental being that went to Earth when it was formed and being developed for human habitation. meaning he is hundreds of thousands of years old, maybe millions. Galadriel is one of the oldest Elves,born before the Two Trees were made. She is at least tens of thousands of years old.
Sauron and Gandalf were, like all such beings, older than the Earth (middle Earth) and even helped design it by contributing to the original music that would create all the world/life in it - as were even the spirits that became Balrogs. Age is meaningless for these beings. What you mean to be saying is the time these creatures existed in/on middle earth.
Tom Bombadil being Iluvatar has been rather surely refuted though.
I just wonder, most of them can live for thousands of years, yet they still live in a very medieval way.
You're making this up aren't you?
Gandalf admitted in the movies that he was about 300 years old....
He said 300 lives of a man.
Of course The Witch King was a fallen Numenorian. I have never doubted that since first discovering Tolkien 50+years ago. His description alone strongly suggests it. The Ringwraiths were all once powerful kings of man and there was no more powerful race of men than those of Numenor. It only follows that the most powerful one would have to be one of them. WHICH one is open to debate, but not that he was one before his fall and enslavement to Sauron
Tom Bombadil isn't Eru/Illuvatar.
Tom Bombadil isn't anyone else ever mentioned or hinted at.
Tom Bombadil is Tom Bombadil.
That's the whole point.
Source: Tolkien.
Great Tune in the backgrounds , Name ?
Well done age chart.
7:37. Azathoth, is that you? OMG! This creature truly has Lovecraftian horror qualities, it's truly an eldritch abomination.
I'm pretty sure Sauron and Gandalf were Ainur