Wow, lovely to hear my experience expressed and confirmed! This is my experience recently. it's like a ladder of creation that I move up and down but it has it's roots firmly planted in Source and whatever appears can never now be seen as real. And so there is just the play of the world, even if there appears to be a 'personality' when there wasn't one before!? I can be 'her' but yet, I am no one at the same time! Thank you for this video! Much love to you.
Just wanted to remind you a fellow student of the way, It's okay if it doesn't happen often, just do it(practice) everyday. Sometimes expecting a visceral experience such as this one could lead to expectations and disappointments, at least in my own experience. Anyway, good luck man!!!
I can only mainly speak of my own practice, as I learned mindfulness techniques first from Tibetan Buddhist teachers (indirectly through their talks and writing) and started expanding on them with my own ideas and observations. When I encountered Shinzen Young's methods and terminology, I found them a great clarification...not confusion. Maybe Shinzen suffers from the same problem I do. Over verbosity and an incessant demand for specificity. Some people do tend to get pissed. :) :) :)
From time to time I experience what he is referering to in the beginning - whitout really having his concepts about it. For me that is what I know as absolute freedom and makes me unafraid of death and basically anything. It hit me for a few seconds about a year ago, but from using Shinzens techniques daily I can experience it much more - and untangle all the mess one have in life. As to what he's talking about next I can't possibly even imagine...
Though I had to listen twice because his vocabulary isn't what I would use, I got it now. In me "Vern" is this flatline state that is the non-dual state he talks of to begin with. It doesn't come out of any ambition, but is always there. It's the baseline state. When Vern is quiet or just chooses to drop into it, it's always there 100% and has been for 17 years. That state can be there for a short while, or long while, depending when the Ego decides it needs to take back control of Vern and make him do something. Be something. Act or behave in some way. Shinzen is saying that the Ego state, he calls it the 'polarized' state, arises from that. From within it. They are connected and not completely unlike each other. He is saying the polarized state "Vern" me/self/i state arises from within that state and if this is recognized, the Ego state falls away again and goes back to the non-dual state. That's interesting, and yet I experience the 2 states as existing together and not in conflict at all. Not really separate to begin with. Therefore I never played this game of when the Ego state arises, to just realize it arose from the non-dual state and to let it fall away again. Having had these very bizarre states come upon me as a result of Jhana practice over the years has been quite a massive change - a complete change - that has been bewildering, to be honest... I never wanted to continue that non-dual state any more than it is already present. I certainly wouldn't want it to be the only state experienced. Vern is a great state to be in. With all the flaws and suffering... it's living life. It's being human. Shinzen seems to be talking about a permanent state of loss of Ego and self that just doesn't seem even remotely enviable. Not something I'd ever want. And yet I see that he isn't permanently in this state either, or he couldn't make this or any other video, but I wonder what he is actually saying about the state of just non-duality and letting go of the i. Is it just an experiment to try, to play with?
If I'm not mistaken the non dual state he describes is termed "Sahaja Samadhi" and characterizes the states of truly realized sages like Ramana Maharshi.
I've been experiencing what master shinzen talks about at the beginning on a daily basis and have only once tasted what he talks about at the end (the true non-dual awareness). I meditate everyday for an hour or more (mainly Do nothing, but also Noting, and Note Gone) and after six months of this, I can feel my consciousness expanding everyday, I'm pretty young so I can't wait to see how deep this goes when I'm Shinzen's age.
MadDannyWest Hi MadDannyWest, your comment about your methods of meditating have me intrigued: I know about Noting, a la Burmese Vipassana approach; and I sometimes use it; regarding Do Nothing ... I guess u are referring either to the Zen description of zazen on the breathing ... and I interpret the “do nothing” part as, in a sense, a goal; that is, when one gets proficient at it, there is a sense of effortlessness associated with “doing” it; but I have never heard of “Noting Done” before-or, is that a typo? Did u mean “Nothing Done”? I would love some information about that; and if u feel I have a misconceptions about “Do Nothing,” or Noting, please do shed light on these practices for me. Thank you in advance, -DrSR
@@drsr4560 Do nothing means not having a goal except maintain awareness, there is no focusing on one particular thing, or a preferred posture. Just maintain awareness while doing nothing. Noting gone is when you note the end of visual or auditory phenomena, for example: (dog barks) the second you no longer hear the bark or it's echo, you think "gone" if a car enters your periphery, then you would note to yourself "gone" once it left your field of vision. Noting when auditory or visual stimuli enter your awareness helps massively with maintaining and increasing your awareness.
Shinzen's image keeps blurring/fading/flowing in these videos. Is this because he doesn't have a strong enough "sense of self" to maintain the apparent materiality of a body? 😎 Just kidding! I don't understand any of this stuff (try as I might!), there's probably a technical explanation for it which is nowhere near as fun.
This is what the Bible calls walking in the spirit instead of walking in the flesh. However Paul for instance speaks of another Spirit, and to walk in this Spirit from whom all spirits come and return, this Spirit became one like us when He projected Himself as body mind, called Jesus who is the encarnation of the mind of this Spirit. This he did to bring us back and live with his mind. So what meditation does is only to bring us back to our spirit or deeper reality, but it misses the purpose of the mind of God, that is, the life that by meditation we may live. But you ask why we need Him? Because he is that life fully and perfectly lived, and thus the only object which can make us new without the dual deception or the life lived with the false self. We, by looking rationally at Him, and what he did, make us one with His Spirit. So instead of depending on our spirit that can never bring perfection but need countless supposed reincarnations, by our union with Christ Jesus in the Spirit, we are perfected, even if we still fail in the flesh. This means that in the upper reality, we, because of Him as the one who redeemed the body mind by his resurrection which we share, can be assure that will still have a body mind and not simply become awareness alone, but I repeat, we will be a complete limited perfection and thus a resemblance of the absolute Trinity, Consciousness, knowledge and Love. Father Son and Spirit enjoying of a congruent body with Him and the angels. This if you receive Him as the Redeemer who died for your sins and willful deceit, so that you become righteous and holy. The difference of this Gospel and non duality is that the gospel makes a difference between our spirit and the Spirit of God likewise with the mind, and in non duality there is no difference. I suggest finding out in your own experience the absolute spirit or consciousness and the absolute mind or intellect or wisdom and love. You should discover that we are in Him naturally and are not Him, He is infinite but we only share of His infinity in a limited way or intensity. Is not difficult to know the difference, for, every time we live, talk and sense we are implying an absolute awareness, mind and sense other than us.
This guy is trying to explain "it" the best he can. He understands the same "thing" that all of us understand, whether we understand it or not.. You already know this stuff and if you don't understand it then just don't worry about it. That's the whole idea anyway, it's to dissolve the "stuff" that we do not, nor can ever, understand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not understanding. That is the way people are and have always been. You have "it" already, just the same as the guy in this video. You may understand it in terms of ones and zeros, positives and negatives, waveforms, opposites, ying yang, body-mind, jesus vs buddha, etc etc etc. It's all the SAME "thing". That is the TRUTH. Find your own path, in your own way. there are no rules or limitations, just as Bob Ross teaches us when he paints the canvas. Everybody else is making it up as they go along. Make yours up the best possible way that you can. Make a tremendous effort, a TREMENDOUS effort and you will eventually make Trump proud. I'm an asshole. Gassho.
Is Shinzen describing here staying all day in a close-to-classical-enlightenment-state? If so, is it possible to stay all day in an classical-enlightenment-state?
So it sounds like the main nonduality- 'nothingness' has no awareness, unlike the causal or very subtle level, and unlike the simple non-conceptual nondual mind. Is that fair to say? And that 'nothingness' is the substratum of existence itself, but the way you describe it, your awareness seems to release into and then notices itself emerge from it, so does that main nonduality have awareness of itself?
Are these his experiences or are they what he has read or has been taught? It seems as though his explanation isn't self apparent, but rather is another form of 'thinking'. Has anyone experienced what he is talking about? If yes, how did you accomplish it? Not looking to argue, looking for 'answers'.
Haha - what the f*ck is he on about!? I think I just got his most basic non-dual awareness, but can't even imagine what he's talking about later. Still, I never imagined I'd begin to escape the prison of my own mind when I started following his teachings. much love.
Have you then discovered yet the trick of the trap? It is worthy of a good chuckle or a deep belly laugh. The attempt to escape the "prison of the mind" is a great place to start. If you stick with that you may find that their is no escape because there is nothing to escape from and that the idea and feeling of oppression and confinement is merely a delusive reaction based on conceptual fictions that we believe to be true. Ultimately the liberation of dissolving naturally without residue is merely the direct experience of no prison, no escape, no mind. Reactions to that are soaked in insight when you are looking attentively. Responses to that can eventually express the natural qualities of that intrinsic, essential core of what is as a unified, self-aware field and exclusivity relaxes into all-inclusive, luminous mind that is, from the first, self-sprung. Right here and now is all there is to it and that is unlimited, self-envisioned purity with the infinite potential of endless unfolding and metamorphosis past the constrictions and patterns of the "me" and "mine". Good Fortune!
I get these examples in theory apart from samadhi without a seed. If merging it's possible to see where you are going, otherwise unsure. Am sending an imaginary soya cappuccino and the peace to drink it (also imaginary -sorry) with many thanks.
Wow, lovely to hear my experience expressed and confirmed! This is my experience recently. it's like a ladder of creation that I move up and down but it has it's roots firmly planted in Source and whatever appears can never now be seen as real. And so there is just the play of the world, even if there appears to be a 'personality' when there wasn't one before!? I can be 'her' but yet, I am no one at the same time! Thank you for this video! Much love to you.
BUFO Got me there recently.
Can you give a clue of the practice that you're pursuing? And are you still in the experience of it?
This honestly sounds like you are falling into nihilism. Be very careful
Wow. Just wow. I actually experience the first things he talks about, but being there all day long... Man that is ambitious!!!
Just wanted to remind you a fellow student of the way, It's okay if it doesn't happen often, just do it(practice) everyday. Sometimes expecting a visceral experience such as this one could lead to expectations and disappointments, at least in my own experience. Anyway, good luck man!!!
I can only mainly speak of my own practice, as I learned mindfulness techniques first from Tibetan Buddhist teachers (indirectly through their talks and writing) and started expanding on them with my own ideas and observations. When I encountered Shinzen Young's methods and terminology, I found them a great clarification...not confusion.
Maybe Shinzen suffers from the same problem I do. Over verbosity and an incessant demand for specificity. Some people do tend to get pissed. :) :) :)
Beautifully put into words and language that which is unexplainable...
thank you
From time to time I experience what he is referering to in the beginning - whitout really having his concepts about it. For me that is what I know as absolute freedom and makes me unafraid of death and basically anything. It hit me for a few seconds about a year ago, but from using Shinzens techniques daily I can experience it much more - and untangle all the mess one have in life. As to what he's talking about next I can't possibly even imagine...
Though I had to listen twice because his vocabulary isn't what I would use, I got it now. In me "Vern" is this flatline state that is the non-dual state he talks of to begin with. It doesn't come out of any ambition, but is always there. It's the baseline state. When Vern is quiet or just chooses to drop into it, it's always there 100% and has been for 17 years. That state can be there for a short while, or long while, depending when the Ego decides it needs to take back control of Vern and make him do something. Be something. Act or behave in some way. Shinzen is saying that the Ego state, he calls it the 'polarized' state, arises from that. From within it. They are connected and not completely unlike each other. He is saying the polarized state "Vern" me/self/i state arises from within that state and if this is recognized, the Ego state falls away again and goes back to the non-dual state.
That's interesting, and yet I experience the 2 states as existing together and not in conflict at all. Not really separate to begin with. Therefore I never played this game of when the Ego state arises, to just realize it arose from the non-dual state and to let it fall away again. Having had these very bizarre states come upon me as a result of Jhana practice over the years has been quite a massive change - a complete change - that has been bewildering, to be honest... I never wanted to continue that non-dual state any more than it is already present.
I certainly wouldn't want it to be the only state experienced. Vern is a great state to be in. With all the flaws and suffering... it's living life. It's being human.
Shinzen seems to be talking about a permanent state of loss of Ego and self that just doesn't seem even remotely enviable.
Not something I'd ever want.
And yet I see that he isn't permanently in this state either, or he couldn't make this or any other video, but I wonder what he is actually saying about the state of just non-duality and letting go of the i. Is it just an experiment to try, to play with?
If I'm not mistaken the non dual state he describes is termed "Sahaja Samadhi" and characterizes the states of truly realized sages like Ramana Maharshi.
I've been experiencing what master shinzen talks about at the beginning on a daily basis and have only once tasted what he talks about at the end (the true non-dual awareness).
I meditate everyday for an hour or more (mainly Do nothing, but also Noting, and Note Gone) and after six months of this, I can feel my consciousness expanding everyday, I'm pretty young so I can't wait to see how deep this goes when I'm Shinzen's age.
MadDannyWest
Hi MadDannyWest, your comment about your methods of meditating have me intrigued: I know about Noting, a la Burmese Vipassana approach; and I sometimes use it; regarding Do Nothing ... I guess u are referring either to the Zen description of zazen on the breathing ... and I interpret the “do nothing” part as, in a sense, a goal; that is, when one gets proficient at it, there is a sense of effortlessness associated with “doing” it; but I have never heard of “Noting Done” before-or, is that a typo? Did u mean “Nothing Done”? I would love some information about that; and if u feel I have a misconceptions about “Do Nothing,” or Noting, please do shed light on these practices for me. Thank you in advance, -DrSR
@@drsr4560 Are you referring to non thought meditation?
He said "noting Gone" not noting done. Shinzen has a video on this on his channel if u search it.
I cant explain it adequately
@@drsr4560 Do nothing means not having a goal except maintain awareness, there is no focusing on one particular thing, or a preferred posture. Just maintain awareness while doing nothing.
Noting gone is when you note the end of visual or auditory phenomena, for example:
(dog barks) the second you no longer hear the bark or it's echo, you think "gone"
if a car enters your periphery, then you would note to yourself "gone" once it left your field of vision.
Noting when auditory or visual stimuli enter your awareness helps massively with maintaining and increasing your awareness.
this vids are GOLD! much gratitude !
Wonderful!
very well said!especially your 'personal' take in the last part- I totally agree. the best I can come up with to describe 'it' is this formula: 1=0=∞
Reminds me of Nisargadatta's "I Am That"
extremely interesting
Excellent
Shinzen's image keeps blurring/fading/flowing in these videos. Is this because he doesn't have a strong enough "sense of self" to maintain the apparent materiality of a body? 😎 Just kidding! I don't understand any of this stuff (try as I might!), there's probably a technical explanation for it which is nowhere near as fun.
well put!
It sound the last description it's like having cessations during the day...
This is what the Bible calls walking in the spirit instead of walking in the flesh. However Paul for instance speaks of another Spirit, and to walk in this Spirit from whom all spirits come and return, this Spirit became one like us when He projected Himself as body mind, called Jesus who is the encarnation of the mind of this Spirit. This he did to bring us back and live with his mind. So what meditation does is only to bring us back to our spirit or deeper reality, but it misses the purpose of the mind of God, that is, the life that by meditation we may live. But you ask why we need Him? Because he is that life fully and perfectly lived, and thus the only object which can make us new without the dual deception or the life lived with the false self. We, by looking rationally at Him, and what he did, make us one with His Spirit. So instead of depending on our spirit that can never bring perfection but need countless supposed reincarnations, by our union with Christ Jesus in the Spirit, we are perfected, even if we still fail in the flesh. This means that in the upper reality, we, because of Him as the one who redeemed the body mind by his resurrection which we share, can be assure that will still have a body mind and not simply become awareness alone, but I repeat, we will be a complete limited perfection and thus a resemblance of the absolute Trinity, Consciousness, knowledge and Love. Father Son and Spirit enjoying of a congruent body with Him and the angels. This if you receive Him as the Redeemer who died for your sins and willful deceit, so that you become righteous and holy. The difference of this Gospel and non duality is that the gospel makes a difference between our spirit and the Spirit of God likewise with the mind, and in non duality there is no difference. I suggest finding out in your own experience the absolute spirit or consciousness and the absolute mind or intellect or wisdom and love. You should discover that we are in Him naturally and are not Him, He is infinite but we only share of His infinity in a limited way or intensity. Is not difficult to know the difference, for, every time we live, talk and sense we are implying an absolute awareness, mind and sense other than us.
i only can understand the non reaction part at the start🤔
We don’t even understand how one thing works how can we understand duality and even further non duality
This guy is trying to explain "it" the best he can. He understands the same "thing" that all of us understand, whether we understand it or not.. You already know this stuff and if you don't understand it then just don't worry about it. That's the whole idea anyway, it's to dissolve the "stuff" that we do not, nor can ever, understand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not understanding. That is the way people are and have always been. You have "it" already, just the same as the guy in this video. You may understand it in terms of ones and zeros, positives and negatives, waveforms, opposites, ying yang, body-mind, jesus vs buddha, etc etc etc. It's all the SAME "thing". That is the TRUTH. Find your own path, in your own way. there are no rules or limitations, just as Bob Ross teaches us when he paints the canvas. Everybody else is making it up as they go along. Make yours up the best possible way that you can. Make a tremendous effort, a TREMENDOUS effort and you will eventually make Trump proud. I'm an asshole. Gassho.
Is Shinzen describing here staying all day in a close-to-classical-enlightenment-state? If so, is it possible to stay all day in an classical-enlightenment-state?
Pretty much and Yes. Takes practice. Worth it.
So it sounds like the main nonduality- 'nothingness' has no awareness, unlike the causal or very subtle level, and unlike the simple non-conceptual nondual mind. Is that fair to say? And that 'nothingness' is the substratum of existence itself, but the way you describe it, your awareness seems to release into and then notices itself emerge from it, so does that main nonduality have awareness of itself?
Are these his experiences or are they what he has read or has been taught?
It seems as though his explanation isn't self apparent, but
rather is another form of 'thinking'.
Has anyone experienced what he is talking about?
If yes, how did you accomplish it?
Not looking to argue, looking for 'answers'.
Yoga and meditation practice
As a beginner meditator this sounds alien to me , lol
It's alien even to the people that make it sound like they understand. 🤪
I think I know what he's talking about.
Haha - what the f*ck is he on about!? I think I just got his most basic non-dual awareness, but can't even imagine what he's talking about later. Still, I never imagined I'd begin to escape the prison of my own mind when I started following his teachings. much love.
Have you then discovered yet the trick of the trap? It is worthy of a good chuckle or a deep belly laugh.
The attempt to escape the "prison of the mind" is a great place to start. If you stick with that you may find that their is no escape because there is nothing to escape from and that the idea and feeling of oppression and confinement is merely a delusive reaction based on conceptual fictions that we believe to be true.
Ultimately the liberation of dissolving naturally without residue is merely the direct experience of no prison, no escape, no mind. Reactions to that are soaked in insight when you are looking attentively. Responses to that can eventually express the natural qualities of that intrinsic, essential core of what is as a unified, self-aware field and exclusivity relaxes into all-inclusive, luminous mind that is, from the first, self-sprung. Right here and now is all there is to it and that is unlimited, self-envisioned purity with the infinite potential of endless unfolding and metamorphosis past the constrictions and patterns of the "me" and "mine".
Good Fortune!
I am that I am not...
I get these examples in theory apart from samadhi without a seed. If merging it's possible to see where you are going, otherwise unsure. Am sending an imaginary soya cappuccino and the peace to drink it (also imaginary -sorry) with many thanks.
u really overcomplicate that which cannot be spoken about with ur words
Nothing ever happens. 🤗🤣✌️