Teachers can make all the difference in the world. I see a lot of people out there who spin their wheels for decades without a good teacher, and yes they sure as hell don't spoonfeed you the answers. But Shinzen is trying to make the path more efficient, and it really needs to be. We accept a failure rate in spirituality that we would never accept in any other endeavor of our life.
It's fascinating. I've heard of those who are capable of being in a state of bliss at will. Then they've become addicted sitting in bliss all day thus not going out into society and virtually not making any progress for years. Even neglecting the body.
The last part is so interesting! Thank you for sharing that knowledge. I will meditate more until it becomes second nature and then I will be able to disolve my ego.
Great talk! I wonder if many current teachers are stuck in the "Enlightenment Trap." There are so many people teaching non-duality right now, who appear to have "awakened", yet ethics and behavior are somewhat lacking. Think about all of the scandals. I remember Pema Chodron in an interview stating that enlightenment opens vast compassion, yet for some, that does not seem so. Shinzen's advice to listen to other teachers seems very wise. I think it helps to be part of some tradition(s), where accountability is expected. However, some people can even slide through That! (I'm thinking of that New York Zen master in the Atlantic article....)
what he is saying at the end basically is you are on auto pilot mode,the momentum of prarabdha karma takes care of the rest, as per hindu philosophy.You are more aware and present unlike your unawakened state.You dont feel sad or happy at events of life or your achievements or milestones.The chances of becoming unconscious are less,the moment you become unconscious of your actions,states you automatically become aware of unconsciousness,and thereby become conscious and come to present.
Other traps: - The Mystic boggle trap: some teachers get into using oxymoron, koans and riddles so the students get confused and quit. The Karma story trap: people cant dis-identify with thought because of the idea of story Karma . The Authority Trap: people try to take someone else's idea of an experience that doesn't fit with their own or situation Anything for Awareness trap: people put themselves on edge to heighten awareness, particular to martial artists. Courage or Stupidity ? LSD , psychedelic drug trap: people take hallucinogens making the Eternal Now a ruddy long time and resulting in boredom with mundane reality. The 'On One' trap: people get so into the idea of universal love they cant see people around them maybe manipulating them from a game point of view to their detriment.
Mystic Boggle is one of the New Age gurus' problems that makes it so hard to measure how effective they are as teachers. Anything for Awareness can be useful, but one must be very careful with it. Some people are forced through extreme suffering onto that path whether they want to be or not, however. Psychedelics can be life-changing if, again, used with caution.
and we meet again! thank you so much for recommending me to check out shinzens videos, hes by far the most elaborate and well spoken teacher i have ever come across. i screenshotted your comment aswell, thank you. It seems as if I have fallen into the psychadelic trap, I have become quite nihilistic and depressed since i broke through, I completely lost every facet of my ego, experienced myself as true awareness, experienced pure bliss annnnnnddd back to square 1. I havent been able to forget about how amazing that was and I cant enjoy life as much anymore because my peak of experience has been highered dramatically and hence in comparison, life is just mundane. I have stopped chasing highs(drug highs) but still find myself chasing enlightenment for similiar reason.
just gotta say this guy really gets down to the point with his explanations. I always appreciate concise wording and explanation that I have to replay one or two times to get over a 2 paragraph explanation that isn't clear to get right to the point
The 6 facets of the Enlightenment Jewel Came into My mind With these Words ( not A particular Order ) : Liberation Self Realization MahaSamadhi Perfection Expansion Freedom. Thank You . 🙏❤💎.
Through these 6 common Traps presented Brilliantly by Master Shinzen, I realized Consciously the 6 different Facets of The Enlightenment Jewel . Thank You 🙏❤💎 .
Every time I see one of Shinzen's videos, I always hear something that I can use to go deeper into practice. This is new territory, and its very helpful to hear from someone who has been there and past it. In Zen, there are teachers and there are students, everyone knows who is who. The difference is painfully obvious.
I absolutely love Shinzen Young, thank you so much for posting this. I have listened to many of his tapes..amazing. But I have to agree that here I would rather hear a full though on just one trap, just my preference. But for me, no one explains things like Shinzen Young, he is so awesome, no ego trips, just clear explanations of stuff one can do to handle all kind of facets of life better, even if you don't have the goal or enlightment. I'll settle for equanimity. Maybe it's the same thing :)
In fact we should be a lot further ahead than we are now - Buddhist scholar Alan Wallace has talked about why we have had several huge revolutions in the physical sciences but the potential revolution in the mind sciences that should have happened over the 20th Century never materialized.
I find from my own personal experience, show me the start point and show me the 'goal line' and I'll find my own path. It takes much longer and requires a great deal of listening. There are a great many blind alleys and if you keep your mind opened, understand your own mind bias & delusions, and keep your heart open the truth will eventually unfold. I borrow from all schools, read everything and listen to many different 'teachers' thanks to youtube. Each to their own~
Thanks. There does come a time when the student is ready to go out on their own. It usually happens after receiving the precepts and practice is well-established. It makes sense, because if there are common problems people run into, no need to rediscover fire on your own. If you think that a Zen teacher spoon-feeds their students the 'answers', then you are not familiar with this practice at all. But, even the Buddha had teachers for the first 6 years of his journey.
Matt Paulk An author of 3 books. It's a pen name btw. But I retract my statement - he seems indeed fully enlightened. Though I challenge anyone to make enlightenment sound bleaker than he does.
Right, I've listened to most of his book excerpts and am reading through "the damndest thing", what I mean is Who is he. He's completely anonymous, "Jed Mckenna" seems to just be a pen name.
I'm tempted to put him into my box of expectations for what "I" think a guru should be like and I'm glad he causes that to arise in me so I can see that I do that. Nevertheless his posts are helpful and I'll take any help I can get so I appreciate you showing me his blog because it's likely I'll write to him.
I think it is very apparent when you look at his video's. There is an aphorism, 'Those who know, don't talk. And those who talk, don't know'. Why? When you 'preach' it inflames your ego. Having a group of devoted followers surrounding you creates ego play the opposite of what a true enlightened person needs. The followers will make you feel like you're 'great'. Same for E Tolle. He had a great message before he became a great 'Messenger'.
Re the map trap: when the great cyclist Fausto Coppi was asked by a young reporter how he, the reporter, could become a great champion, Coppi answered "You must do three things: ride your bike, ride your bike, ride your bike." (also, perhaps it is better to say "an antidote" rather than "the antidote"
If that's your 'path' I'm sure it works for you. Some like to be 'taught' it's a lot easier and you can ask another for the 'answers'. The problem is that the student usually goes no further than the teacher knowledge & wisdom. You see something in his video's that I don't. Good luck on your 'path' :)~
Thanks for the vid Shinzen. I'm still not understanding the observer trap and what to do as an antidote. You speak about the act of meditating as going on autopilot - is this the trap? Or is it something else?
It's basically the realization the meditation does itself and there is no one at the steeringwheel. I've been experiencing, practicing and doing that more and more. Not sure why they call it the 'trap'. Maybe the trap is to believe 'you' have to 'do' your meditation for the right things to happen. I'm already beginning to notice the universe does itself, and whenever the small meditator mind takes over it restricts ones capability to meditate severily.
Maybe they're dissolving at certain points in order to keep the number of minutes per video down. (I understand you're only allowed 10 minutes per video when it's a series like this?) In any case, I enjoy Shinzen Young's videos enormously. Keep up the good work, folks!
The sixth trap, the observer trap, is not described. I can't tell if the metaphor about developing the skill of driving is describing that trap, describing an antidote for it, or describing his things are supposed to go if you have avoided all of the traps.
@Floyd I know the place you're at, been there not long ago, this is a lot of aversion, try to recognize it. A metta practice is of great help to drop aversion
Definitely more could be said, but a worthwhile summary nevertheless. He neglects to define the Observer Trap howerver (unless it was inadvertently cut), which would appear between 6:29 and 6:51...
Way too many cuts... I think it is better to make 2 videos instead of 1 that is chopped to fit within 10 mins. Chopping cuts the original flow of ideas of the speaker
I did not understand the last part where he says with experience we become better meditators, because, isn't the Zen way to maintain a beginner's mind always?
To be curious like a child instead of restraining our imagination to our imagination in the mind! Haha, literal visual images in the mind, or expectations and a concrete knowing of what is happening in the body keep us away from this curiosity. Going back to it constantly because we can't really really certainly know what we know. So dissecting our labels and going deeper!
I've definitely been aware of some of these potential traps. On the observer trap, it seems he didn't explain exactly what it is. I'm confused on that one. Is he saying that once your practice is well established you could lose your mindfulness of being mindful because it happens on auto-pilot. I'm guessing that's not it because that wouldn't make sense lol.
+Paul Ladendorf He didn't mean "you lose your mindfulness on being mindful" which is indeed a non-sense. He meant you lose your mindfulness on being CONCENTRATED. It is the concentration that is on "auto-pilot", you think you are mindful of your thoughts and sensations, but it's actually a simple "skilled" thought that do all the job : you are then fully distracted and not mindful at all. That's how I got it mate.
Self Help Dude He is saying when you practice, you can fall in a trap feeling there is a "you" doing the mindfulness practice. You will create a dual experience. When you get more skilled. The mindfulness practice will meditate you, so you will lose the sense of a meditator. That's when the real practice comes in~
It’s so complicated and academic. I will never get enlightened for sure. I shall ask : how the hell is it suppose ,for the regular person,to reach such wonderful state ? We will keep stuck in samsara forever hoping for that. Maybe this is just another limited view on the nature of reality. Maybe the no-self experience is a product of ego depleting practice and mind training that points in a certain direction inevitably giving birth to the result it already envisioned. I think enlightenment, if there is such a think, should be attainable for anyone with very simple tools. Anyway ,I am gonna spray some ants now (guilt free)
Fore a failure and a fringe dweller, quite the author of fiction i have become. grammar and overall structure, certainly leave something to be desired, ... Contact me if you want me to continue this fairytale :) You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...” Dr. Seuss, i'm almost sure it's his quote
Teachers can make all the difference in the world. I see a lot of people out there who spin their wheels for decades without a good teacher, and yes they sure as hell don't spoonfeed you the answers. But Shinzen is trying to make the path more efficient, and it really needs to be. We accept a failure rate in spirituality that we would never accept in any other endeavor of our life.
I’m thrilled this stuff is on UA-cam!
It's fascinating. I've heard of those who are capable of being in a state of bliss at will. Then they've become addicted sitting in bliss all day thus not going out into society and virtually not making any progress for years. Even neglecting the body.
This man is by far the best teacher and the best at making those concept easy to understand, at least in my microscopic meditative experience.
Ken McLeod is also good at this. He's always worth a listen on iTunes.
@@Diamondschannel820 Thanks for the tip.
The last part is so interesting! Thank you for sharing that knowledge. I will meditate more until it becomes second nature and then I will be able to disolve my ego.
Great talk! I wonder if many current teachers are stuck in the "Enlightenment Trap." There are so many people teaching non-duality right now, who appear to have "awakened", yet ethics and behavior are somewhat lacking. Think about all of the scandals. I remember Pema Chodron in an interview stating that enlightenment opens vast compassion, yet for some, that does not seem so. Shinzen's advice to listen to other teachers seems very wise. I think it helps to be part of some tradition(s), where accountability is expected. However, some people can even slide through That! (I'm thinking of that New York Zen master in the Atlantic article....)
If ethical behaviour does not follow, then it is not insight.
what he is saying at the end basically is you are on auto pilot mode,the momentum of prarabdha karma takes care of the rest, as per hindu philosophy.You are more aware and present unlike your unawakened state.You dont feel sad or happy at events of life or your achievements or milestones.The chances of becoming unconscious are less,the moment you become unconscious of your actions,states you automatically become aware of unconsciousness,and thereby become conscious and come to present.
Other traps: -
The Mystic boggle trap: some teachers get into using oxymoron, koans and riddles so the students get confused and quit.
The Karma story trap: people cant dis-identify with thought because of the idea of story Karma .
The Authority Trap: people try to take someone else's idea of an experience that doesn't fit with their own or situation
Anything for Awareness trap: people put themselves on edge to heighten awareness, particular to martial artists. Courage or Stupidity ?
LSD , psychedelic drug trap: people take hallucinogens making the Eternal Now a ruddy long time and resulting in boredom with mundane reality.
The 'On One' trap: people get so into the idea of universal love they cant see people around them maybe manipulating them from a game point of view to their detriment.
ugh that last group is especially annoying to me xD
"he robbed and raped me because he loved me"...oh lord....
optizap So true!!!
Mystic Boggle is one of the New Age gurus' problems that makes it so hard to measure how effective they are as teachers.
Anything for Awareness can be useful, but one must be very careful with it. Some people are forced through extreme suffering onto that path whether they want to be or not, however.
Psychedelics can be life-changing if, again, used with caution.
and we meet again! thank you so much for recommending me to check out shinzens videos, hes by far the most elaborate and well spoken teacher i have ever come across. i screenshotted your comment aswell, thank you. It seems as if I have fallen into the psychadelic trap, I have become quite nihilistic and depressed since i broke through, I completely lost every facet of my ego, experienced myself as true awareness, experienced pure bliss annnnnnddd back to square 1. I havent been able to forget about how amazing that was and I cant enjoy life as much anymore because my peak of experience has been highered dramatically and hence in comparison, life is just mundane. I have stopped chasing highs(drug highs) but still find myself chasing enlightenment for similiar reason.
Nailed it!
just gotta say this guy really gets down to the point with his explanations. I always appreciate concise wording and explanation that I have to replay one or two times to get over a 2 paragraph explanation that isn't clear to get right to the point
The 6 facets of the Enlightenment Jewel Came into My mind With these Words ( not A particular Order ) :
Liberation
Self Realization
MahaSamadhi
Perfection
Expansion
Freedom.
Thank You . 🙏❤💎.
Through these 6 common Traps presented Brilliantly by Master Shinzen, I realized Consciously the 6 different Facets of The Enlightenment Jewel . Thank You 🙏❤💎 .
Every time I see one of Shinzen's videos, I always hear something that I can use to go deeper into practice. This is new territory, and its very helpful to hear from someone who has been there and past it. In Zen, there are teachers and there are students, everyone knows who is who. The difference is painfully obvious.
Shinzen, I don't know how to thank you. Gassho.
I absolutely love Shinzen Young, thank you so much for posting this. I have listened to many of his tapes..amazing. But I have to agree that here I would rather hear a full though on just one trap, just my preference. But for me, no one explains things like Shinzen Young, he is so awesome, no ego trips, just clear explanations of stuff one can do to handle all kind of facets of life better, even if you don't have the goal or enlightment. I'll settle for equanimity. Maybe it's the same thing :)
Those last 20 seconds 💎
In fact we should be a lot further ahead than we are now - Buddhist scholar Alan Wallace has talked about why we have had several huge revolutions in the physical sciences but the potential revolution in the mind sciences that should have happened over the 20th Century never materialized.
I find from my own personal experience, show me the start point
and show me the 'goal line' and I'll find my own path. It takes much
longer and requires a great deal of listening. There are a great
many blind alleys and if you keep your mind opened, understand
your own mind bias & delusions, and keep your heart open
the truth will eventually unfold.
I borrow from all schools, read everything and listen to many
different 'teachers' thanks to youtube.
Each to their own~
Superbly summarized. Thank You.
Thanks. There does come a time when the student is ready to go out on their own. It usually happens after receiving the precepts and practice is well-established. It makes sense, because if there are common problems people run into, no need to rediscover fire on your own. If you think that a Zen teacher spoon-feeds their students the 'answers', then you are not familiar with this practice at all. But, even the Buddha had teachers for the first 6 years of his journey.
I love this guy!
The "Enlightenment trap" seems to be the one that Jed McKenna's caught in.
Who even is he?
Matt Paulk An author of 3 books. It's a pen name btw. But I retract my statement - he seems indeed fully enlightened. Though I challenge anyone to make enlightenment sound bleaker than he does.
Right, I've listened to most of his book excerpts and am reading through "the damndest thing", what I mean is Who is he.
He's completely anonymous, "Jed Mckenna" seems to just be a pen name.
Matt Paulk It is indeed. So I have no idea. He calls himself "the invisible guru" on a forum he runs jedmckenna.createaforum.com/
I'm tempted to put him into my box of expectations for what "I" think a guru should be like and I'm glad he causes that to arise in me so I can see that I do that.
Nevertheless his posts are helpful and I'll take any help I can get so I appreciate you showing me his blog because it's likely I'll write to him.
I think I've had 18000 traps so far.... keep it real, being a freshman for the rest of your life is the only way.
Good video love and light to you all.
Sadghuru is stuck in the enlightenment trap.
Watch at 1.5 speed
I think it is very apparent when you look at his video's.
There is an aphorism, 'Those who know, don't talk.
And those who talk, don't know'. Why?
When you 'preach' it inflames your ego. Having a group
of devoted followers surrounding you creates ego play
the opposite of what a true enlightened person needs.
The followers will make you feel like you're 'great'.
Same for E Tolle. He had a great message before he became
a great 'Messenger'.
you mean just like Buddha did
Re the map trap: when the great cyclist Fausto Coppi was asked by a young reporter how he, the reporter, could become a great champion, Coppi answered "You must do three things: ride your bike, ride your bike, ride your bike."
(also, perhaps it is better to say "an antidote" rather than "the antidote"
Thanks for this great video! It is amazing.
@tubekurt unfortunately youtube has a 10 minute limit. poster could have made 2 parts though i guess
Whoa
I thought this was Mike from Breaking Bad when looking at the thumbnail haha
Hahaha
Gracias
If that's your 'path' I'm sure it works for you.
Some like to be 'taught' it's a lot easier and you can ask
another for the 'answers'. The problem is that the student
usually goes no further than the teacher knowledge & wisdom.
You see something in his video's that I don't.
Good luck on your 'path' :)~
crazy good video
Thanks for the vid Shinzen. I'm still not understanding the observer trap and what to do as an antidote. You speak about the act of meditating as going on autopilot - is this the trap? Or is it something else?
It's basically the realization the meditation does itself and there is no one at the steeringwheel. I've been experiencing, practicing and doing that more and more.
Not sure why they call it the 'trap'. Maybe the trap is to believe 'you' have to 'do' your meditation for the right things to happen. I'm already beginning to notice the universe does itself, and whenever the small meditator mind takes over it restricts ones capability to meditate severily.
Maybe they're dissolving at certain points in order to keep the number of minutes per video down. (I understand you're only allowed 10 minutes per video when it's a series like this?) In any case, I enjoy Shinzen Young's videos enormously. Keep up the good work, folks!
The sixth trap, the observer trap, is not described. I can't tell if the metaphor about developing the skill of driving is describing that trap, describing an antidote for it, or describing his things are supposed to go if you have avoided all of the traps.
Yet Tim Freeman had a good question lol
@Floyd I know the place you're at, been there not long ago, this is a lot of aversion, try to recognize it. A metta practice is of great help to drop aversion
@@albertthorval4674That's what I needed. Thanks.
Hi where is it possible to hear the entire part for the fundamentalist trap ? Thank you!
I have personal experience of this guy. He really lets being a "teacher" . . . go to his head.
Really helpful thank you Shinzen.
Definitely more could be said, but a worthwhile summary nevertheless. He neglects to define the Observer Trap howerver (unless it was inadvertently cut), which would appear between 6:29 and 6:51...
The path of the Pratyekabuddha- private Buddha. It all should work, given enough time.
Way too many cuts... I think it is better to make 2 videos instead of 1 that is chopped to fit within 10 mins. Chopping cuts the original flow of ideas of the speaker
I didn't understand 2 can someone layman's terms that for me
I did not understand the last part where he says with experience we become better meditators, because, isn't the Zen way to maintain a beginner's mind always?
To be curious like a child instead of restraining our imagination to our imagination in the mind! Haha, literal visual images in the mind, or expectations and a concrete knowing of what is happening in the body keep us away from this curiosity. Going back to it constantly because we can't really really certainly know what we know. So dissecting our labels and going deeper!
As they say, when you are ready the teacher emerges from nowhere.
I've definitely been aware of some of these potential traps. On the observer trap, it seems he didn't explain exactly what it is. I'm confused on that one. Is he saying that once your practice is well established you could lose your mindfulness of being mindful because it happens on auto-pilot. I'm guessing that's not it because that wouldn't make sense lol.
+Paul Ladendorf He didn't mean "you lose your mindfulness on being mindful" which is indeed a non-sense. He meant you lose your mindfulness on being CONCENTRATED. It is the concentration that is on "auto-pilot", you think you are mindful of your thoughts and sensations, but it's actually a simple "skilled" thought that do all the job : you are then fully distracted and not mindful at all. That's how I got it mate.
Self Help Dude He is saying when you practice, you can fall in a trap feeling there is a "you" doing the mindfulness practice. You will create a dual experience. When you get more skilled. The mindfulness practice will meditate you, so you will lose the sense of a meditator. That's when the real practice comes in~
I was stuck in the map trap for almost 10 years, haha.
Can happen! Heard of it many many times
Legend!
@Lanceshizzy Are you enlightened?
I haven’t a clue what he just said
It’s so complicated and academic. I will never get enlightened for sure. I shall ask : how the hell is it suppose ,for the regular person,to reach such wonderful state ? We will keep stuck in samsara forever hoping for that. Maybe this is just another limited view on the nature of reality. Maybe the no-self experience is a product of ego depleting practice and mind training that points in a certain direction inevitably giving birth to the result it already envisioned. I think enlightenment, if there is such a think, should be attainable for anyone with very simple tools. Anyway ,I am gonna spray some ants now (guilt free)
see nathatlie gray
I really wish I didn't read the comments
Some are funny
are you saying enlightened people have no thoughts?
Mistake number seven.
Watching UA-cam.
Fore a failure and a fringe dweller, quite the author of fiction i have become. grammar and overall structure, certainly leave something to be desired, ... Contact me if you want me to continue this fairytale :) You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...”
Dr. Seuss, i'm almost sure it's his quote
9:28
Love how Americans call it "driving stick"
Pete O watch this on American language its lol ua-cam.com/video/5wSw3IWRJa0/v-deo.html
Only because hardly anyone does it anymore so it needs a strong description
Much to complicated, just simply See for yourself. There's no-thing to be found, no traps, no body-mind :-)
# 1 Trap: Videos like this one
STFU
I was extreemly hig and tired while writing this. spelling is bad and kinda make me look even dumber than i feal. Dyslexia dont help ether ;)
Try shrooms.
who cares what you think.
I'm too dumb for enlightenment
He’s not enlightened, you can tell by his eyes & the tonality of his voice.
lol