The Relationship Between Childhood Emotional Neglect & The Human Magnet Syndrome
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- I had a great conversation with my friend and colleague Ross Rosenberg, about how our concepts and books are similar and different, and which book might help you the most.
Dr. Jonice is amazing and so humble. Your first book is the core of my phD study
Once I found you Dr. Webb I thanked my lucky stars! I've ordered your books and am full of hope. Not being listened to as a child has impacted my entire life. Reading The Body Keeps The Score was a revelation. Your work hits the nail on the head! I can't thank you enough!
Thank you. I had been attracted to self centered people (intelligent, charming, creative and or artistic) because my parents were charming, smart and narcissistic. I have CEN emotional neglect mostly, I like your work! My mom did not respond when I cried, I felt dissociated much of my life remembering even before 5th grade. Lately I need to work on attachment trauma, anxiety and avoidance etc. It was hard to focus and organize my time and life around career and to have a long-lasting (10 years the longest) good relationship with trust. It is sad how the early years of deficiency resonate through with a thread of a kind-of lonely in life. In therapy. I do not have addiction, do not drink, smoke nor over eat. I am anxious in the world though more than I feel is rational. It interferes with my ability to focus and concentrate. My life has been around my interests which are solitary, (music, art and photography) I need to make more friends and socialize more with greater ease..... Highly educated and talented I often have problems with authority, many are not as smart. Also, sometimes group dynamics at work upset me because I do not feel like I belong. I felt that in my family too, the empath scapegoat that moved away with independence. The good news is I live in NYC so there are people all around! I did not marry and with no children, I did not want to damage another and a child.
Audrey Epstein thanks for sharing! I feel the same on alot of the things u say.
This sounds like you have written about me. Except I live in Australia.
I relate to this so much
As the others have said, I feel similar in a lot of ways. My parents separated early and while they were very loving and ensured I was cared for, there was never any discussion of emotions... Neither of them seemed to know how to address them and I learned to lock it all down in response.
This has ended up with me having selfish tendencies while at the same time always trying to put others first and it is very difficult.
I haven't yet read the books on emotional neglect, but I will soon, because I strongly desire healthy relationships and a feeling of wellbeing.
I wish the best for anyone going through this or working through this with their family, friends, and partners.
'My mother didn't respond when I cried' this sentence 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭this is so fucking true😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
we don't trust exposing ourselves because we are afriad of being vulnerable with others..it is a great fear just to think about it to trust others or be dependent on their acceptance. we have no experience to be loved as a whole. parts of us were not welcome in our family...this is the the horror ...
I can relate to this Two Buttons. Sending you all the best.
Clinician here - yes yes yes. I see this. Ive had similar thoughts, using different language about the intersection of emotional neglect (an adverse childhood experience - or form of attachment "trauma"), poly vagal theory (an awareness that the body holds a lot of information, and many people have switched off from the visceral experience of their emotions - interception /proprioception), and therefore not able to listen to sensory/somatic information so that they can 'know themselves", or capitalise on what they sense about other people (neuroception); and the intersection between an increasingly traumatised society, adults unable to regulate themselves and/or not themselves learning about emotions and thus not able to attune to their children - and the resulting self-love deficit and 'psycho-pathology'. The double edged sword of "labels". I now refer to narcissism as "unconsciousness" - which exists on a continuum. Some of the somatic therapies (Hakomi / Sensorimotor psychotherapy) identify character strategies (Stephen Johnson) ... and Self Reliance and/or Industrious over-focussed are strategies used by people with these experiences ... (not having needs, caretaking). Really respect Alice Miller's "The Drama of the Gifted Child" - a seminal work. We are all interpreting information from the body via the neocortex, and coming up with 'language' which describes our 'hunches' - that language is different - but the concepts and so closely aligned. Great conversation.
I want to hug both of you. The wallflower, yes that’s me. I just give to the point of exhaustion, bc I know how it is to not have. My narc mother tells everyone now (I’m pushing 40) that I concocted the lies of abuse because I need attention, which is far from the truth. When Facebook came about, many of my mothers old friends reached out and apologized for not stopping the abuse.. but it all never happened, according to my mom. I asked my gram why no one in the family did anything.. they were threatened that they would never see me again.. horrible. I’ve been no contact with mom since my 35 bday, when trying to have an adult conversation as to why she didn’t attempt to communicate at all while I was hospitalized for cancer. Claimed she didn’t even know... then yelled sorry I ruined your life! And hung up. At that moment, I thought well, she’s going to have to live with the fact that the last words she said were hateful and spiteful. Doubt it bothers her tho. I decided to have a hysterectomy bc I didn’t want to pass this crap to anyone.. was a biology major in college. I said to the doc who’s yes depended on me getting surgery.. there’s too much piss in my gene pool for me to want to procreate. I couldn’t live with myself knowing that I could inflict the damage onto an innocent child that was inflicted on me. I’ve had numerous therapist tell me.. yea, I can’t help you, sorry. It’s added to my trauma, I think
I discovered Dr Webb 10 years ago in my early 60’s & it’s a big deal! Ur 20 years ahead of me. Only gets better with the work! 👌🙏👏
How this manifested in my life was either I was trying to “ fix” other people to fill the void and give purpose and meaning to my life by proxy or I was drawn to narcissistic personality types which would, of course, created further damage. The last relationship I had was with, what my psychologist at the time suspected was a Sociopath. This relationship invoked both the draw to this particular personality type and the need to fix by proxy. This relationship was the most damaging and I developed PTSD amongst other disorders. It’s been 5 years and I’m beginning to feel more like myself again with the added bonus of understanding. The only major challenge for me now is that due to the last relationship I was discarded with very little assets and had to move in with my mother whom is one of the people that was involved in C.E.N. She is also a very self centered person and tends to exaggerate or lie about life situations to me and other people. She has expressed to me that she doesn’t “deal” with emotions very well. She doesn’t seem to care much about other peoples wants and needs so there is no point in articulating those or speaking your truth. There is a disconnect in relationship to me and other family members. Interesting situation to say the least. Speaking of labels, I can’t figure out if my mother fits the pathology of a vulnerable narcissist or not. Traits, definitely.
After this video I'm left with deep uncomfortable feelings of Ross having some kind of a problem with Jonice.
I felt like there was this subtle, weird, pervasive tension running as an undercurrent throughout the video. I kept wondering if I should keep watching for the information or turn it off because of the weird cringe I kept feeling. I don't see much mentioned about it in the comments, but a few mention something like it, so I guess I'm not the only one who sensed something off?
You both offer so much more than many therapists.
I'd like to hear Dr. Webb also talk about how people with CEN can transform other relationships aside from those primary ones.. Like work relationships, how to rrelste better with coworkers, management, I feel like that lack of knowing how to be assertive and stand up for oneself can be absolutely detrimental at work. Also how to transform friendships and just being less rigid and anxiety ridden in social spaces
I will try to cover this in a future video! Thank you.
I wanted more information about these ideas and how they inform each other. I was disappointed. I hope you can find time to explain more in the future. I will definitely watch it.
Thank you for this information. Awareness is key.
Can't say it better!
Levera Murray CEN people Unite !
I find difficult to ask for my needs but i used to be a clown, an entertainer and hide myself by being loud. Nontheless, i was terribly neglected and abused and always tried to help or fix others...
alot of these kinds of videos are informative but the bare area is learning to create new respect and attraction from healthy people to get your needs met and for your potential to emmerge in new relationships. psychology tends toward information and self help........BUT application, practice and new experiences internalized is Transformation. INFORMATION IS GOOD BUT you can be smart and untransformed. Counselor/psychologist types can inadvertently reinforce codependency by their own need to be smart for the client. mentoring and modeling heathy behavior is essential to internalize the information esspecially for people who learn experiencially and by watching. Not everyone is smart enough to comprehend but if you show them them an example then it clicks. Meaning transformation is stored in the right brain (experience) , information is left brain cognition. self help is a dead end......that leaves someone smart about their damage but unable to move forward in newer healthier relationships.
New experiences are healing !!! opposition occures when you begin to change. you will get kickback so its important to learn who is safe to support you and encourage you as you begin to apply new skills because the nature of the beast is that YOU WILL GET BACKLASH, REJECTION, PROJECTION and ISOLATION WHEN YOU BEGIN TO CHANGE....so you will need heathy people to support you along the way if possible.
i disagree with much of the work out there about co-dependence about finding "self esteem" self esteem is a myth everyone finds esteem externally first to internalize it and be able to feel secure in and of themselves by receiving validation and support externally. the term "emomtional abject constancy" is what this is called. we need to store up external love and acceptance and usefullness from others to feel secure with periods away from it and to be able to hand adversity. everyone relies on past stored up memories of value, acceptance, and love to feel secure on their own, away from such sources. Those emotionally neglected to not receive external love, validation, support, usefullness or some other aspect and so they learn to cope in false ways or from a false self. it isn't until we bond first and individuate that we can then emmerge as a interdependant adult and master our skills, destiny and purpose. we as emotionally neglected need to learn to "be needy" or atleast to let that part of ourselves out of hiding in relationship with boundaried attuned attentive people who can lose them self enough "stepping down to our level" for awhile to accept our needy parts and limit our self absorbsion (we may experience guilt or self consciousness about being self centered) so that we can integrate our need to bond and experience compassion, but also learn to live without or on the other side of others boundaries. this is an uncomfortable process for those with "co-dependancy" because we experience boundaries as rejection. instead of learning to trust love and limits and to move toward people who limit us and trust their limited compassion. unlike the narcissists we are attracted to who deny us or replace or override us. Love feels strange or impossible to let in when you have lived on a starvation diet your whole life. it may actually feel like everything is at risk, you may even experience physical pain, this is the "fight or flight" instinct of past traumas where you learned you'll be attacked, supressed, denied if you show your needs , assert yourself or tell the truth. it will feel like you are in a war to regain lost territory when you learn to trust safe people. and you may fail and skin your metaphorical knees many times before you learn to keep moving past the walls that keep you "safe" but stuck. love is RISKY BUSINESS you will always need hope and faith to trust that someone will accept you just as you are, weaknesses, faults, immaturity and all. "neediness" may make some other people uncomfortable as you learn to express it, so choose safe people who are comfortable and not threated by the emmerging of your unmet needs and hidden self. I'll recomment THE BOOK "Boundaries" by henry cloud and john townsend" and "Safe people" by one or more of the same authors. they have many other books on healing and growing.
Thank you Ted Myrrh, I agree with all your comments, but find the process so difficult and daunting if not overwhelming. I'm going to look up the books you mentioned
@flamingorobin - I agree with you. I think the experiential psychotherapies (somatic) can be very helpful here. Information is useful - but experience is what creates new neuronal connections.
@@flamingrobin5957 Alan Schore, who wrote "Affect Regulation and the Development of the Nervous System" would agree with you on this point. He states we need to go through the "narcissistic" phase of our development - aged around 18 months to 30 months - were we are the apple of our caretakers eye, where we have pretty much undivided attention. He states that this is what embeds a sense of self esteem - it is reflected to us through the behaviour of another human being, and installed in the nervous system. Healing requires co-regulation.
Yes we NEED BOTH OF YOU !! 🙂
This is true Jonice, I DO feel very differently about my parents now. Even though I know that parenting is harrrrrd! I do not want to pass it down. I must buy the second book.
our emotions dont matter but their emotions do so we become invisible and mimic them intellectually. we become zombies, the walking dead .omg
The media and entertainment industries are doing this stuff to you all way more than your parents or ex spouses ever did, recognise that and you will understand why the world seems so isolating and toxic. Be proud of yourself if you don't fit in. Fitting in equals surrendering your common sense.
And certain schools and teaching philosophies
When a mother has kids so close together some of her kids are not going to get the attention they need.
The murder relationship.
Dr Webb’s 1st book is a must read! 👌🙏👏👏
what makes takers , takers...they have issues but how come they deceide to take rather than give ? It would be great if you could explain both sides...
The symmetry is perfect and provides a wonderful explanation from teo perspectives that describe the dance. An interplay of personality, the way we are or, are not recognized and what is modeled Really appreciate the card analogy words I have spoken to self so resonates playing the hand. Making differences to future generations. Powerful, empowering.. thankyou thankyou.🙏
Please watch Ann barnhardt's diabolic narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere.
THANK YOU both.
Blessings
Thank you both very much. 🙏❤
Is this the answer to why my life has been so f***** up and I'm 62 with No HOPE???
Fantastic, thank you both 💪🏽❤️
There were entire generations of parents who focused on providing for physical needs. Gen X for example raised themselves outside of food, shelter and the school day.
Absolutely gen xers did!
Indeed, there is room for both of these authors :-)
This book, that book, my new book, my training, my website ... It's all about the bizzniss! There's something not right about that 😒.
i goin too write a book on dis yo. den giv it fo free!! word.
Wow, this is beautiful.
Thank you. ❤️🌼
awesome information. I will continue to educate myself on interrelationships as I am definitely an empathetic person who needed to learn about myself and narcissists. I have to deal with a narcissist family members because there is a grandson whom I have a beautiful relationship with. He wants me to visit often but his mother is a narc. and is very controlling. The tools I have gained from these videos will allow me to visit without becoming her emotional supply. I know who I am and I know why I am. Thank you .....I will continue to learn all that I can and pass it on to others.
This is a funny discussion hahah like y'all could have been talking about building a unified theory but both kind of wanted to promote mainly their side and awkardly give props to the other hahah
Hi Dr. Webb,
In listening to both your work and Mr. Rosenberg's, I wonder how culture can play a part in this? You mentioned it briefly in that parents may not necessarily neglect the emotional needs of the child. However, what I have come to realize is that even when knowing better, these abusive parents/caregivers continue to neglect the emotional needs of their children/adult children. In that case, would it not be better to move away, and have less contact with the abusers. Now there is an emphasis on developing own self-love in the child or adult.
who agrees the spark in peoples eyes if they are well nourished vs. unnourisched people
Ross Rosenberg developed a 12 step model to overcome codependency. Do you have a similar program to recover from CEN ? TKS for your valuable contribution to helping people becoming aware of this almost invisible cause of dysfunctional behavior in relationships.💖🤗🙏
If we end up being in a harsh situation without our own will, things are bound to improve without our having to do a thing. The Narcs are a totally different thing. They churn till the bitter end. Theirs or someone else's.We'll see. TY.
Get a room! 😀 Joke aside, brilliant work, both!
Ross is such a loving, heart-felt man.
but is he? really?
Where can I find the 3 videos you posted online to help people getting back in touch with their emotions ? Tks.🙏
Who originated the term CEN? Dr Webb? When Ross says he 'owns the space', is he saying he owns this concept but as SLDI?
Such great content!
What are the steps to overcome CEN ?... Tks 🤗🙏💗
He seems condisinding.
And he is not a doctor- while she is a doctor, he has a problem with women I think.
Is sociopathy not 'growing up blind' too?
The relationship between "dough" n these videos? I only found out about the true hatred of my family since mum's sickness briefly b4 her passing. You are welcome!
Ppl need money. I've done the work with my youth therapist. What is not of me , is not my responsibility . Narcissism
Is a fixed personality disorder . It is hard to cure. Impossible .
Is there a structured program you recommend to overcome CEN ?
I will cover this is a future video! Thank you!
I have always needed more affirmations to pull it through. I don't think it is up to me to do the work. I have done more than my own share. Terrible terminology . U do not seem to grasp the intention of making me the culprit....no codep. No deficit disorder . Nothing. I am wanted dead under all circumstances/ by all definitions. I was too perfect before this crime. Money flies. My body is in a state of a human robot until the reversal. Thanks anyway.
Growing up with grandiose narc sibling is not something I’d recommend...
Maybe , I'd better quit talking.... a yeast dough swelling to explode!!!
What's his site address
I dislike victimisation.
I did not appreciate being labeled psychopathology as a codependent. You are too judgemental Ross. Labels hurt!!
sweetasuwtb I didn’t hear him say these were the same thing at any point
many talker speaks out the partial of reality, not much useful.