Nearly every clip of this bike the 38 can be seen blowing through travel on things it definitely shouldnt which would combined with low rise narrower bars and long stem make the pitching over the bars and twichiness even worse, so what im saying is suspension setup and general bike fit are incredibly important.
Prob better with an air shock, too. And why is the 38 so consistently low in the travel even after taking the big hits? Did they try a lower spring rate? So weird.
Living in an area where most of our trails are exclusively steep, tight and rocky, I watched the Firebird become the bike of choice for many riders (me included) from its 2017 release. Nothing else could handle steep, chunky trails with tight turns quite as well. Now it has more competitors, so things have changed a bit. But I'm a bit surprised that the reviewers of the new one think it isn't suitable for steep and technical terrain.... Also, the fork is independent of the bike? Nope.
I've spent time on this bike... bars on the bike I road had 800mm bars and 35mm stem. Road it on steep lava rock trails oc the Centeral Oregon Cascades. My feeling is that these guys dont know how to set up suspension on this bike! Setting up an air fork to match a coil shock is different than if you are running air front and back. To me this bike didnt really come alive until it was STEEP and FAST! So much so, I'm selling my DH/Park bike AND Enduro bike and just building up a Firebird to replace both.
fork setup isn’t independent, it relies heavily on weight distribution through setup(i.e. stack) and set up of rear suspension. Just because fork settings work on one bike doesn’t mean they’ll work on a different bike with different geo and linkage, even if they have the exact same travel/intended use. you guys only messed around with the fork, while the shock has a huge role in the pressure going through the fork…. seems like the same setup flaws again just with a different video
Yep. You can get a front tuck with the fork blowing through it's travel or you can get it to tuck set up like a brick. The feeling you get from a soft fork vs. a stiff one is a great bit more. A stiff fork will let go and you'll be picking yourself off the ground going 'WTF'!
Great review, putting the accent on the actual ride. You can really compare it to the PB Field Test, where they spend half of the video with componentry and geometry, which anyone can look up in the charts. The info you provide is actually what I think people are looking for when watching reviews. Keep it up!
I’ve been riding for 6 months this bike with 500 coil . I’m 78 kg . I’ve feeled too the rear pushing despite many settings adjustements. Today i went x2 air : the bike is not the same 🥰 ! 500 coil was not ok for me . May be 475 should have been better . But for me , the air is the way to go for the bird . It is amazing .
Take a look at those other reviews where they tested the same build. They say the bike has full XTR but that's only the derailleur. It has AEffect cranks ffs. One review even stated xtr brakes when you can see xt brakes. All the reviews are all over. One said it was hard to ride on flatter terrain. The one calling it "perfect" talked about how it bobbed pedalling slower, so it "encouraged" you to work harder uphill. What a crock. That same review mentioned added pressure to the rear shock when it had a coil... Everybody wants an honest review until it criticizes their bias.
I dont see how you can say the front is really independent of the rear. Its not. It really has to be setup together and set to what makes both ends work in harmony together, it is a system tied together by the frame . You guys know this, i know you do.
50mm stem and 760mm bar? totally unridable for sure! wonder if any Enduro rider disagrees with it... ohhh wait! thats exactly what JACK MOIR, MATT WALKER, etc use!!!
You guys didn’t notice the bar width? How can we trust you on suspension set up? Pivot really should have checked, and set it up right, but Vital could have matched the bars on all the bikes in 5 mins. It’s easier than changing a tyre.
I’m glad you guys dived back in. Every Firebird I’ve ever rode has been a beast. Crazy how much bars, stem and setup can effect the whole range of riders.
Lads this bike is an absolute weapon and made for thrashing and your saying it suits a rider who ISNT riding steep knarly terrain? Maybe they should be riding a 130mm trail bike then?
All bikes, components and suspension are GREAT. The problem is sometimes you need to spend more time setting it up and testing and people don’t want to do that. Testing properly is difficult. If you test while you do normal trail riding throughout your week it takes longer and you ride differently on different days even on the same trails.
I'm starting to lose my frame of reference with so many long travel bikes with massive wheelbases and slack HTA being called playful, nimble and agile. And some short (travel) and small wheeled bikes being called stable and composed. Can we have some objective competitive comparisons between different style bikes? For example: which bike you can bunnyhop highest on, crush a rockgarden fastest on, make it through a tight slalom section fastest on, manages to get furthest on a slight uphill rhythm section without a chain installed, which is the highest drop/huck you're willing to take per bike etc? All things you can actually measure. Take bikes out of different categories or, if you wanna go radical, make this a standard part of every bike review. I'm lost.
That is 100% because of the shock choice. There is no reason in the realm of physics why DW wouldn't be as "plush" as anything else. IBIS' new "traction tune" is basically taking the damping out of Fox shocks because Fox damping blows chunks.
Yea wtf was that? The fork is not only very attached to the bike, but also very sensitive to how you have your shock setup. They work together. It really makes me think that they had a tough time setting up the suspension and just blamed it on the bike.
i hear you, but they just cant set it up, it doesnt matter what the manufacturer recomends (fox) its about how it actualley set up, there is clearly not enough air in the fork yet they refuse to add it to give the firebird a fair review
so did you guys blame all that on bars, i know that melamed ran 730-740s and hes pretty quick. seemed like that fork was packing up a little too much as well.
I found it unfortunate that being a Enduro bike all the focus of the test was only on how it descended with very little mention of all the attributes an Enduro bike must have.
Smaller brand bike: “this bike sucks” ditch it. Bigger brand (Pivot) “this can’t be right let’s take out a full investigation on why this bike is so twitchy. “ 😂
This bike was on the podium almost every race in this year's EWS women's category. Something tells me this bike isn't as bad at the steep chunk as is advertised here.
@@REB4444 I've seen a fair few other reviews that don't echo the sentiments shared here. I think with proper set up the bike compares favorably with others in the category. The difficulty of achieving that set up is not something I can comment on. Other reviews I've seen and read speak positively about the bike. I own a Pivot, but realistically probably wouldn't buy a DW link for a long travel bike. Not sure why questioning an out of step review makes me an 'apologist'. Not everything Chris Cocalis touches is gold. But I also thought it was reasonable to rebutt others on this thread calling it trash.
How does this so called Pro not know his preference in suspension settings. Seriously! Set up your own suspension preferences, cockpit setup and reach preferences and then review the bike. Once your ramp is dialled in your fork and shock it should be the nuances we get feedback on. I think also having a coil shock over an air would have created challenges for the variation of testers.
I think the solution is a 31 mm super short stem a 800 bar and a one up V2 dropper to get the maximum drop and keep that rear end down. Cush core pro front and rear with 19 PSI and no more deflection.
I own this bike, really don't get how they struggled in the steep rocky trails.. 90% of what I ride is steep and rocky and the Firebird is an absolute beast in this terrain. I run 35mm stem with one up bars cut to 770mm. I'll be honest it did take a few rides to dial the shock and fork but now it's dialled the bike just eats everything you throw it at
Even with video in slow motion you can see that riders are not going flat out because they are hitting every single rock on the way down! Just get proper riders who actually know how to ride fast!
These guys are so off on their review, that it’s obvious that they were paid to trash the bike… they must have ridden a different bike than all the others reviewers, because they are the only ones with that amount of hate… I hate to see MTB channels prostitute themselves that way
exactly what i was thinking, i rode the firebird on some steep double black tech and did not get this feeling whatsoever…in addition no other bike review had any of these same complaints
@@camerondavis7291 It just seems like lazy setup on vitalmtb's part. I've ridden dw link on pivot bikes before and with 30% sag, the rear was active and plush. Nothing like what vital is claiming.
$7,800, Yikes! I could build it for $7499.99. 😁 But seriously, that's out of reach for the vast majority of MTB'ers that would like to have it. My last FS build about 5 months ago: Carbon 29er Frame (Vary similar geometry to the Pivot Firebird), Carbon Wheelset, Full Sram XX1 drivetrain, Manitou R7 Pro 120mm fork, Maxxis AGGRESSOR Tires. Weighed-in at 24 LBS. $4950 total build cost. I will put my build up against Any $10,000 factory bike. The trick - Never Pay Retail, there are deals out there, you just need to find them. All these big, name-brand bike frames are made in Asia somewhere - I just cut-out the middle-man and saved $3000. If you know where to shop and you have the tools and knowhow, you can build a $10,000 MTB for $5000.
omgosh, vital mtb, it doesnt matter how much pressure you have in the suspesion, its about the sag cuz is whatss going to maake the biggest difference, cuz of suspenion layouts and geo, the same air pressure will make a rider naturally sit on a different place on the bike, so you adjust the suspension to "fix" this "issue". you say youve been testing bikes for a decade, yet you still managed to mess this up not once, but twice.
Nearly every clip of this bike the 38 can be seen blowing through travel on things it definitely shouldnt which would combined with low rise narrower bars and long stem make the pitching over the bars and twichiness even worse, so what im saying is suspension setup and general bike fit are incredibly important.
Which would make the rear in the air.
Prob better with an air shock, too. And why is the 38 so consistently low in the travel even after taking the big hits? Did they try a lower spring rate? So weird.
Worst reviewers I’ve seen
I noticed that ss well
Living in an area where most of our trails are exclusively steep, tight and rocky, I watched the Firebird become the bike of choice for many riders (me included) from its 2017 release. Nothing else could handle steep, chunky trails with tight turns quite as well.
Now it has more competitors, so things have changed a bit. But I'm a bit surprised that the reviewers of the new one think it isn't suitable for steep and technical terrain....
Also, the fork is independent of the bike? Nope.
I've spent time on this bike... bars on the bike I road had 800mm bars and 35mm stem. Road it on steep lava rock trails oc the Centeral Oregon Cascades. My feeling is that these guys dont know how to set up suspension on this bike! Setting up an air fork to match a coil shock is different than if you are running air front and back. To me this bike didnt really come alive until it was STEEP and FAST! So much so, I'm selling my DH/Park bike AND Enduro bike and just building up a Firebird to replace both.
Dayumm that bike is looking well good.
Yeah an Enduro for Flowtrails, very good idea
Aha it's dumb
Let's face it. That is pivot's target demographic...
@@Andrew.Drennan Pivots have started to replace yetis as the ultimate dentist bike.
Firebird performed very well in this year's EWS. Struggling to understand that after this review.
@@323johnnybravo what about specialised, trek, giant all have bikes the same price as the pivot. Or you can make do with cheaper bikes
I appreciate that you revisited review!
fork setup isn’t independent, it relies heavily on weight distribution through setup(i.e. stack) and set up of rear suspension. Just because fork settings work on one bike doesn’t mean they’ll work on a different bike with different geo and linkage, even if they have the exact same travel/intended use. you guys only messed around with the fork, while the shock has a huge role in the pressure going through the fork…. seems like the same setup flaws again just with a different video
Yep. You can get a front tuck with the fork blowing through it's travel or you can get it to tuck set up like a brick. The feeling you get from a soft fork vs. a stiff one is a great bit more. A stiff fork will let go and you'll be picking yourself off the ground going 'WTF'!
i demoed the 2021 on my hometrails for 2hrs and instantly set pbs... there are a lot of really nice bikes, but i fell in love with the Firebird.
Great review, putting the accent on the actual ride. You can really compare it to the PB Field Test, where they spend half of the video with componentry and geometry, which anyone can look up in the charts. The info you provide is actually what I think people are looking for when watching reviews. Keep it up!
I’ve been riding for 6 months this bike with 500 coil . I’m 78 kg . I’ve feeled too the rear pushing despite many settings adjustements. Today i went x2 air : the bike is not the same 🥰 ! 500 coil was not ok for me . May be 475 should have been better . But for me , the air is the way to go for the bird . It is amazing .
Yeah it would’ve been nice to hear more about the rear shock setup… esp if you tried different coils and compression settings. Or even swap to an X2
Surprised by how much you guys disliked the Firebird considering how much praise they get everywhere. But really appreciate the thorough review!
its cuz despite them "testing bikes for over a decade", they still managed to f#*k the set up of this bike
Take a look at those other reviews where they tested the same build. They say the bike has full XTR but that's only the derailleur. It has AEffect cranks ffs. One review even stated xtr brakes when you can see xt brakes. All the reviews are all over. One said it was hard to ride on flatter terrain. The one calling it "perfect" talked about how it bobbed pedalling slower, so it "encouraged" you to work harder uphill. What a crock. That same review mentioned added pressure to the rear shock when it had a coil... Everybody wants an honest review until it criticizes their bias.
I think Pivot got to you guys and made you review it again. Sounds like you still hate it though lol 😂
I get the same vibe, I do however have a simple solution: send it to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
its just they are clearly incapable of setting this bike up correctly
Also there was the flood of negative comments in the first video.
I dont see how you can say the front is really independent of the rear. Its not. It really has to be setup together and set to what makes both ends work in harmony together, it is a system tied together by the frame . You guys know this, i know you do.
That thing is so good looking I almost don’t care how it rides. I’m not that good to tell the difference anyway.
50mm stem and 760mm bar? totally unridable for sure!
wonder if any Enduro rider disagrees with it... ohhh wait! thats exactly what JACK MOIR, MATT WALKER, etc use!!!
Totally agree!!! These guys are either crooks or ignorant
They must all be 6’3” and up.
You guys didn’t notice the bar width? How can we trust you on suspension set up?
Pivot really should have checked, and set it up right, but Vital could have matched the bars on all the bikes in 5 mins. It’s easier than changing a tyre.
Best looking bike made wow!
I’m glad you guys dived back in. Every Firebird I’ve ever rode has been a beast. Crazy how much bars, stem and setup can effect the whole range of riders.
tho they still cant set up the suspesion. edit: set it up properly that is
Lads this bike is an absolute weapon and made for thrashing and your saying it suits a rider who ISNT riding steep knarly terrain? Maybe they should be riding a 130mm trail bike then?
This video is just propaganda paid by other brand to attack the bike… MTB should be a positive community, not the House of Representatives
All bikes, components and suspension are GREAT. The problem is sometimes you need to spend more time setting it up and testing and people don’t want to do that. Testing properly is difficult. If you test while you do normal trail riding throughout your week it takes longer and you ride differently on different days even on the same trails.
I'm starting to lose my frame of reference with so many long travel bikes with massive wheelbases and slack HTA being called playful, nimble and agile. And some short (travel) and small wheeled bikes being called stable and composed.
Can we have some objective competitive comparisons between different style bikes? For example: which bike you can bunnyhop highest on, crush a rockgarden fastest on, make it through a tight slalom section fastest on, manages to get furthest on a slight uphill rhythm section without a chain installed, which is the highest drop/huck you're willing to take per bike etc? All things you can actually measure.
Take bikes out of different categories or, if you wanna go radical, make this a standard part of every bike review.
I'm lost.
Yep….Ripmo DW is the same way. I came from a Yeti and the DW link isn’t as plush as everybody says but damn does it pop and pedal
Maybe this might be the reason why Ibis hasn’t developed a Super Ripmo. Luckily CBF works great on bigger travel bikes.
That is 100% because of the shock choice. There is no reason in the realm of physics why DW wouldn't be as "plush" as anything else. IBIS' new "traction tune" is basically taking the damping out of Fox shocks because Fox damping blows chunks.
I think this bike can be very balanced. Just adjust the suspension so that it is balanced and/or have bars with more rise
Takes over a year to get a pivot. DW LINK likes 30% + sag. I blame the poorly set up 38 and flat bars.
Going over little bumps riding the bottom out bumper on that fork. Definitely replace that with a Mara Pro and Mezzer.
weird to rate a bike for stem length and bar width. As these things change right away after someone gets a bike.
"The fork is pretty much independent of the bike." I'm out.
Yea wtf was that? The fork is not only very attached to the bike, but also very sensitive to how you have your shock setup. They work together. It really makes me think that they had a tough time setting up the suspension and just blamed it on the bike.
@@hollycow123445 Yep, 100% on Fox.
Good review. I'm so tired of hearing bike reviews rant and rave how every bike they test is perfect.
i hear you, but they just cant set it up, it doesnt matter what the manufacturer recomends (fox) its about how it actualley set up, there is clearly not enough air in the fork yet they refuse to add it to give the firebird a fair review
Start watching Paul Aston’s reviews. Crowd funded and honest. You shouldn’t need to change things in a bike this expensive 🤯
@@andreaslundindotcom bro you’re basically saying that you shouldn’t have to set a bike up for it to work well😂
so did you guys blame all that on bars, i know that melamed ran 730-740s and hes pretty quick. seemed like that fork was packing up a little too much as well.
I found it unfortunate that being a Enduro bike all the focus of the test was only on how it descended with very little mention of all the attributes an Enduro bike must have.
It rides like a trail bike with heavier tires.
Holy Guys, that fork is bottoming constantly. Set that thing up!
Now let’s go see what the other comments say…..
Maybe it's a bike to be used with air shock
Or maybe the spring rate was too heavy for some of the testers
the firebird is compatible with air and coil
So Vital puts out a BS 1st review, reads the comments from the 1st review then puts out a 2nd one pointing the finger at everyone but itself.. OK
Smaller brand bike: “this bike sucks” ditch it. Bigger brand (Pivot) “this can’t be right let’s take out a full investigation on why this bike is so twitchy. “ 😂
This bike was on the podium almost every race in this year's EWS women's category. Something tells me this bike isn't as bad at the steep chunk as is advertised here.
@@REB4444 dude the geo and linkage is identical, which are the most important things when choosing a bike. Every other component can be changed.
@@REB4444 I've seen a fair few other reviews that don't echo the sentiments shared here. I think with proper set up the bike compares favorably with others in the category. The difficulty of achieving that set up is not something I can comment on. Other reviews I've seen and read speak positively about the bike. I own a Pivot, but realistically probably wouldn't buy a DW link for a long travel bike.
Not sure why questioning an out of step review makes me an 'apologist'. Not everything Chris Cocalis touches is gold. But I also thought it was reasonable to rebutt others on this thread calling it trash.
If bernard kerr rides it, then I want it
How does this so called Pro not know his preference in suspension settings. Seriously! Set up your own suspension preferences, cockpit setup and reach preferences and then review the bike. Once your ramp is dialled in your fork and shock it should be the nuances we get feedback on. I think also having a coil shock over an air would have created challenges for the variation of testers.
I think the solution is a 31 mm super short stem a 800 bar and a one up V2 dropper to get the maximum drop and keep that rear end down. Cush core pro front and rear with 19 PSI and no more deflection.
Soo what was the actual width of the handle bars?
Pivot is really proud of their bikes…. See the pricing? Yikes!
Right, If I spec it the way I want it, it's $11,400. That's nuts!
Which Orbea is that?
These seem like the interviews on Reno 911… Coincidence?
What orbea was that?
nice video
I own this bike, really don't get how they struggled in the steep rocky trails.. 90% of what I ride is steep and rocky and the Firebird is an absolute beast in this terrain.
I run 35mm stem with one up bars cut to 770mm.
I'll be honest it did take a few rides to dial the shock and fork but now it's dialled the bike just eats everything you throw it at
Even with video in slow motion you can see that riders are not going flat out because they are hitting every single rock on the way down!
Just get proper riders who actually know how to ride fast!
These guys are so off on their review, that it’s obvious that they were paid to trash the bike… they must have ridden a different bike than all the others reviewers, because they are the only ones with that amount of hate… I hate to see MTB channels prostitute themselves that way
“It’s a great bike but…”
How about a softer suspension setup for the rear? Seems obvious.
exactly what i was thinking, i rode the firebird on some steep double black tech and did not get this feeling whatsoever…in addition no other bike review had any of these same complaints
@@camerondavis7291 It just seems like lazy setup on vitalmtb's part. I've ridden dw link on pivot bikes before and with 30% sag, the rear was active and plush. Nothing like what vital is claiming.
So 🍊🍊🍊🍊
$7,800, Yikes! I could build it for $7499.99. 😁 But seriously, that's out of reach for the vast majority of MTB'ers that would like to have it. My last FS build about 5 months ago: Carbon 29er Frame (Vary similar geometry to the Pivot Firebird), Carbon Wheelset, Full Sram XX1 drivetrain, Manitou R7 Pro 120mm fork, Maxxis AGGRESSOR Tires. Weighed-in at 24 LBS. $4950 total build cost. I will put my build up against Any $10,000 factory bike. The trick - Never Pay Retail, there are deals out there, you just need to find them. All these big, name-brand bike frames are made in Asia somewhere - I just cut-out the middle-man and saved $3000. If you know where to shop and you have the tools and knowhow, you can build a $10,000 MTB for $5000.
Hello
pls do commencal clash
468 on a medium wow, almost 20mm longer than a sentinel
Spesh Enduro S3 (medium) is 464 in Low, 468-470 in high. I’m 5’8 and it’s amazing on that bike in the chunk
👏👏👏👏👏🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
That’s a lot of orange, jesus
Feel like they had a bum fork.
LOL. That's Pivot for you.
Extremely expensive and very pretentious but not all that great in reality.
i beg to differ
You don't watch EWS do you?
@@zionneidorf6740 haha you seem like a Pivot employee
omgosh, vital mtb, it doesnt matter how much pressure you have in the suspesion, its about the sag cuz is whatss going to maake the biggest difference, cuz of suspenion layouts and geo, the same air pressure will make a rider naturally sit on a different place on the bike, so you adjust the suspension to "fix" this "issue". you say youve been testing bikes for a decade, yet you still managed to mess this up not once, but twice.
They are either very ignorant or biased… anyhow this review is worthless and misleading