Determining Zone 1 & 2
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- How to determine Zones1 & 2 THEN how to modify the zones as fitness changes. I end with three tips; (1) don't push power/pace to the top of Zone 2; (2) add frequency and extend duration; (3) don't push heart rate early in an endurance workout, let heart rate rise naturally. LINK for the Zone Table : www.teamakerda...
Great explanation. I like the way todays training has evolved to fine tune the old school versions of Fartlek training (or, more recently called "flow training") so that tolerance is slowly developed to maximize the cycle of lactate production to clearance (real-time lactate levels?). The coaching element still in development is precisely adapting effort level during a training session in real-time relative to fueling needs. In my experience, when a session fluctuates efforts, it trains the body to manage the rate of lactate production and clearance. These ebbs and flows enable the athlete to shuttle lactate to the liver for conversion to glucose, then back to the muscles as glycogen until this cycle diminishes carb stores. The next stop is to study how precisely respiration plays a part in giving tell-tale signs of this cycle is depleting at a faster rate. The "talk-test"/ventilation vs. effort benchmark is a proxy version of determining respiration rate. My guess is that Real-time Blood O2 levels (possibly combined with insulin levels) will likely be the new future benchmark for developing better zone training shifts during a session.
This gives me a decent amount to think about.
I've been chasing that 1.6mmol+ range for lactate in my zone two treadmill sessions. I saw it as my goal to try to hit above 1.8mmol for steady state treadmill. But as you can guess that has been quite the moving target day to day. So my hunch is I've been accidentally dipping into Z3 far more than I expected.
Part of that is my running economy is just garbage. I get much better heart rate range to lactate build up when hiking at 15% or more.
I'm going to consider using that lower-end anchoring approach for Z2, instead of my constantly trying to stay within 2-5% of my upper HR or on the treadmill hit readings greater than 1.5
In the early half of trying to build back your running ability, did you strictly focus on steady state? or did you mix in a session of any interval work to try improve power/speed/economy?
Lots to think about. Thanks for sharing your numbers and annalysis
Here's a clip that runs through my approach to intensity.
I used the bike as my primary mode of exercise. Runs were as easy as I could go. Also used run:walk to lower my effective intensity.
ua-cam.com/video/c90WFUaH1t8/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
G
And here's a link to an article about building your basic week for running
feelthebyrn.substack.com/i/108809591/your-basic-week
Thks, great info and video series you are doing. Really helping & motivating me. I myself returned to training beginning of August this year (bike and swimming) after 3 years of relative off (Roth in 2018 and some local races in 2019). Currently approx 10 hours on the bike and 2 hours swimming per week. Bike sessions are 6x per week: 3 easy approx 90 min daily and sunday 3 hours. 2 hard sessions (also 90min) one around FTP (90-105%) 4x8min with equal rest and one around VO2max 8x2min. I like to keep it simple and defined 3 zones (green - orange and red) and following polarized training plan. Daily following resting HR and since last week also HRV. After your suggestion I will slowly push up the 3 easy workouts in duration to 2 hours. Also thinking of investing in a lactate testing unit to further pin point development. Next couple of months will also start adding running again (some lower back problems so need to be carefull), starting with 2~3 sessions after the easy bike with max 15min and build slowly up. So I have 2 questions: 1) would you also advise to extend the duration of the hard sessions to 2 hours (extending warm up and cooling down)? 2) what is you advise on (daily) strength/core training without weights? Enjoy the weekend!
Extending the warm-up is something I'm always in favor of. I think that gets you more benefit than changing the cooldl down.
8x2 is a big dose of VO2. Next week I'll share ideas for you. I'd have you do less dose but, possibly a higher target. How'd you determine the VO2 target?
Slide down this page : feelthebyrn.substack.com/p/endurance-essentials
John wrote articles on Circuit Training and In-Sport Strength.
You'll probably have to adjust your "week" as Tempo, Circuit, VO2 and In-Sport would leave it too crowded. So you'll need to phase your approach.
G
@@feelthebyrn Gordon, ths for the feedback and additional (reading) info. VO2 target is based on a) historical info, b) TrainerRoad FTP testing and c) feeling/best guess from my side at this moment. Looking at heart rate max 163. VO2 intervals starting at 143 and ending (last) interval around 153. So I guess a little under estimated both from power and HR. Ramp test yesterday from 186 to 206W (final minute 275W) due to 8 weeks of training.
So I assume as of next week the VO2 intervals will be more pushing HR towards 163. In 2018 did my last full fledge lab testing with a sport MD (anaerobe 260W and VO2max 360W - 57,5ml/min.kg with 68kg bodyweight), efficiency anaerobe / VO2max 0,84). Will do a new test early next year (refund from health insurance).
Goal is get back into > 250 FTP, current age 59 years.
@@Embarking-on-a-new-adventure that makes sense, thanks
These zones are interesting. As a high level national and international triathlete, max hr of 213 and have tested over all three sports. For the bike my upper zone 2 sits at 144bpm, lactate 1.4. And my zone 4 sits at 171bpm and 2.3 mmol. This differs entirely for the run with upper zone 2 sitting at 175bpm and 1.8mmol, zone 4, 198bpm, 3.2 mmol. This data shows how different hr can change from sport to sport.
Another thing I've found is the gap between sports can change over time
My run HR zones were higher than my bike HR zones when I was younger. These days, they're pretty close to each other.
Will be interesting to see if they move apart as my run fitness is re-established.
G
This is so clear Gordo, thanks.
Can i ask about your comments I've noted saying that if you go too hard at the start or during a training session you can switch off the fat burning? Have i got that right?
If so does that mean that if you get your lactate too high then it wrecks an endurance session?
More likely to "reduce" or "impair" // most of us will have enough metabolic flexibility to avoid shutting off completely
I wouldn't say wrecked. I prefer to give comfort to athletes that they benefit from a relaxed warm-up. There is no cost to easing into a session.
G
Fantastic information!! Quick question: Should the initial lactate tests be done at time of day that an athlete would typically train?
That's how I schedule them.
You'll find that you want a 90-120 minute gap from the last meal to the test start. If baseline lactate is >1.5mmol then very easy exercise should be done to get it
Great video! My muscles start to hurt slightly even at 95 HR and 11 min/km, and it feels like RPE 3+. My max HR is 194. Should I train below 95HR? Should I run/walk, because 11 min/km is already so slow? As soon as I start to run, I feel slightly burning in the muscles, like RPE 4. Should I do 80% under 95% HR? I am a bit confused. Hope you can help!
Try John's progressive test on a treadmill. It will let you feel your full range.
He outlines it here:
feelthebyrn.substack.com/p/doc-hellemans-on-max-heart-rate-testing
Nicely presented Gordo. I'm assuming for indoor training you recommend athletes to use fans/cold drinks etc to keep body temp and therefor HR down and reduce CV drift and avoid decoupling power/speed and HR. Would you lower intensity to maintain the target HR zone for these L2 sessions? Thanks.
After you've warmed up, if you find the feeling and the HR creeping up... then yes, back off a touch to keep the feeling "Green Zone"
@@feelthebyrn many thanks for the reply.
Wanting to try and avoid the de coupling with hr and lactate you breifly mentioned. Any advice when running. Would i spend 15mins in Z1?
Im hoping for a lactate test on friday.
Thanks for the videos
I did a video on decoupling. Start there and feel free to follow up with any Qs.
ua-cam.com/video/0zDr-N03jc0/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Hi Gordo, I hope you can give me your ideas on this. I calculated my Zone 2 using Karvonen to be 120-132 (MHR 170, RHR 45, age 70) and used it for a few months. Recently I went to a lab test. After Bla of 1.01 at HR 104 at 7.5 kph , lactate swung to 1.76 at 8 kph HR 124. So my Zone 2 has been given by the lab as 83 to 104 . A drop of 30 beats from Karvonen , which took me by surprise. However I am going now by lab result. Is it typical that Lab determination of zone 2 is very different from any calculations ? The lab also got my VO2 max as 41 which is in the range by other methods like Rockport 1 mile, or 12 minute run, or Polar app. I am now running by lab results as I paid for it. Given your large database , is it surprising at the variance?
Based on the data you shared, I'd place your Easy Zone (1) at 83-104 bpm.
Steady Zone (2) likely to be 105-120 bpm.
Then you'll likely have a grey zone 120-130 bpm. Where effort is a little high for endurance (Z1/2).
Did you see my recent Zone Basics series on Endurance Essentials?
I recommend the summary Article published yesterday feelthebyrn.substack.com/p/zone-breakpoints-and-lingo
Also, John's on Subjective Perception: feelthebyrn.substack.com/p/simplifying-training-intensity-zones
Use John's guidance for checking the zones over time. The lab tests will understate the heart rate vs pace. So you need to cross check with longer efforts.
G
I am a beginner… can I like train my Zone 1 consistently for 3 months then Zone 2 consistently for another 3 months?
A better way to think about it... as you gain fitness, your pace in Zone 1 will improve.
Info for new athletes is in my How to Endirance seminar
Chapter One : How To Endurance
ua-cam.com/video/tTe0BqiFkgg/v-deo.html
Also... I did a clip on how zones change as fitness improves...
ua-cam.com/video/_lmBFredWDc/v-deo.htmlsi=PxkdIBHVd5h0etw_
G
It was easy in the begening to be in zone 2 , after few mouthes i cant be in zine 2 i need much efforts to be in zone 2, i dont know why
It's ok to go easier. Ideas for you in my training zone seminar
ua-cam.com/video/ArPCHGUwscE/v-deo.htmlsi=ch_89ElaV5K0hlHN
Hey Gordo, these videos are super helpful. I wonder if you might be able to help me further I recently did a lactate run test in a lab. At 5.27km pace my heart rate was 135 with lactate at 1.03. Next step was 5.00km, heart rate 145 with lactate at 1.66. Base reading was 1.02. Would my LT1 be at 135 or 145 in your opinion?
I'd sit on that ~5.27 pace for a longer effort and see what happens to heart rate and feeling.
On Monday, I'll publish a seminar on the Training Zones chapter we just published. It's goes into detail about your Q.
Short answer, use feeling to guide yourself and set a HR cap you'll stay under.
In your case, with that test, I'd say to you... Head out relaxed, build to that 5.27 effort, sit on that and watch HR. Keep HR under 145 bpm.
So the HR is a cap, not a target. You use the pace guideline as well as feeling.
Also, slower is fine. I do a lot of running under my LT1 pace.
Lots more in the seminar.
G
@@feelthebyrn thank you. Look forward to Monday
Interesting topic. I'm about to start lactate testing with my own meter and I'm trying to make sense of the science and guidelines that comes with it.
It doesn't appear to me like there's much benefit to train above mitochondrial capacity (the 0.8-0.9mmol reading from your aug-23 test) when attempting to get your base MC/LT1 HR to within 10% of your LT2 HR (as recommended in the book "training for the uphill athlete"). It seems to be that as soon as you go above MC you start trading extra volume for extra fatigue (assuming that the best stimuli for aerobic development is long sessions).
In other words, until you've more or less fully developed your LT1, trading intensity/fatigue for volume is a less effective investment than doing more volume within MC?
Does this correlate with your real world experience, or would you give different guidance for developing LT1 capacity?
That's been my experience. Fatigue is a helpful guide.
This is particularly true with my running. Running below LT1 remains a powerful stimulus.
With my cycling, time under LT1 works great for both my overall metabolic profile, and my bike fitness.
As low-end fitness improves, using hills plays an important part in overall development.
G
@@feelthebyrn thanks for the input, appreciate it. Have your read- experimented with- Klaas Lok's easy intervals? Seems like an interesting concept to make Z1-2 training more variable, stimulating and possibly also a better way to incorporate Z2 training? Rather than going for one or two longer Z2 rides a week you could incorporate shorter Z2 intervals into more of your base sessions and perhaps get away with the same or even more Z2 volume, assuming that combining it with Z1 serves to lower overall lactate accumulation?
I like to look at bin analysis of the workout, pretty easy with power. What I find is there's a lot of Z1/Z2 using an LT1 target.
Shifting the target upwards to Z2 will change the range to include Z3. That can make sense for some. My preference there is to aim a little higher. I'll explain in tomorrow's video on Z3/Z4.
Realistically, were moving around all the time when we're outdoors. Even in erg mode, the torque will be changing with cadence.
G
@@feelthebyrn "Shifting the target upwards to Z2 will change the range to include Z3." I'd been taking notes of your anchoring concept, but the purpose hadn't fully hit home until now. I will add a time in power zones chart in TP and do some studying of my sessions going forward. Thanks