"Zone 2" Training Mistakes Runners Make for Aerobic Base Intensity: Coach Sage Canaday TTT. EP 63
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- Опубліковано 30 бер 2023
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Higher Running Coach and Hoka Athlete Sage Canaday gives any surface any distance runners from 5k to the ultramarathon and marathon training tips and advice from running form and technique to long run workouts, speed training, running vo2max workouts and lactate threshold intensity as well as long runs and diet and nutrition advice. A pro trail mountain runner athlete for over a decade, Sage is a plant based marketing content creator for his sponsors and other brands with regular VLogs, training talks and tutorials. Check out training plans at Higher Runing and get free coaching resources!
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This is such a frustrating topic for me because I would need to walk frequently to even stay in zone two. This week, I just ran at a pace that I felt was comfortable as possible and I didn't look at my watch at all, instead, I just tried to have a conversation with myself without gasping for air. Constantly looking at the Garmin and stressing out on pacing and heart rate really takes the pleasure out of training for me. Instead I try to focus on breathing, cadence and run form. This is all pretty new to me but I'm slowly getting better.
If you want to run on hearth rate it is strongly preferred to use a chest strap. Wrist measurements are not allways accurate (some watches are decent).
Also what is zone 2? There are different ways to determine what zone 2 is, and the default setting on your watch (220-age) isn't a good one.
Also try to look from a different perspective. If your fitness dictates you should have walk brakes, have walk brakes. On the long run this is going to give you better endurance.
Personally I run on pace and perceived effort and see hearth rate just as an additional metric. But I live in a flat area where pace is mote easily used than when you live in a hilly area.
@@GTE_Channel I think "zone 2" just means below the first ventilatory threshold
Don't stress, all this conversations about heart rate don't take into account that a new runner will easily be at 170bpm just by running very slowly. Also heart rate it's just a number that is different for everybody because of amount of training and genetics.
It's always better to train mostly by feel and effort rather then depending on something your watch or a chest strap tells you, this way you can understand your body.
I'm experiencing the same thing. I'm coming off an acl surgery and had to run/walk (18-21 min/mile) for 4 months. I'm down to 16 min/ mile for the easy runs. While it sometimes seems embarassing to go so slow, it feels easier every workout. If you can stick with it, and push total mileage up, the pace is going to drop. Good luck!!
Hey great to hear and yes that's why I made this video! I wouldn't necessarily trust what the Garmin numbers say...so a lot of times "Easy Days" are all about feeling and staying relaxed (being able to talk and not push). Just be patient with the mileage and pace and your breathing will get better and the pace will get faster as long as you stay healthy! Good luck and thanks for sharing.
zone 2 : It works I went from 11:30 pace per mile to 9:00 per mile pace !! Took 3 months . I can run a 5 min mile now 🏃🏼♂️
nice! Congrats!
Congrats, that's so cool! I'm starting aerobic base building and hope to see improvements too :) Did you do all your runs in Z2 throughout those 3 months?
Nice. what was your weekly mileage?
Weekly mileage pls and was all runs in zon 2
@wheelz7360 how did you figure out what heart rate was your zone 2 bpm? Did you use chest strap?
Zone 2 training has helped me get honest about what my easy talk pace actually is. And I live in hilly New England so my heart always gets super high running hills all the time. I’m 43 maximum heart rate is 200bpm based on my Garmin and my low is 50bpm. And I’m using % of heart rate reserve formula in Garmin. Depending on the hill I can get to 190bpm. Zone 2 keeps my heart rate low on hills. For me that usually mean run/walk. But I’m able to recover from my long runs easier and I can run 5 days in a row. For the first time ever, I can run 30 miles a week without feeling mentally/physically exhausted.
Nice one. I think my max HR is approx 192. So I do my Zone 2 runs at about 6:00/km, keeping my HR below 150, usually averaging out to 146 for a 60 min run. Like you, I now don't feel exhausted at all, and am itching to run more and more but have to resist the urge. I was doing involuntary tempo runs 4x week before that, as I had the mentality you have to go hard every workout. I'm jealous of the New England location!
Thanks Sage 🙌🏼 always honest and open minded. It’s the humility for me.
Zone 2 has been a hot topic and I’m glad you’ve discussed this. It’s a great to have a long comfortable Z2 run and listen to a podcast without the adrenaline of Z3 that’s usually reserved for music lol
Listening to podcast or more chill music is the #1 reason I run slower at Z2 now.
I really enjoyed the detailed discussion on this specific today with the examples thrown in. Even when I’m not training for a marathon, it’s still nice to know roughly where my Z2 is based on where I predict my current marathon race pace to be.
Love these videos. Such great advice
Great video Sage. Thanks.
Love your insight, thanks Sage!
Thank you very much!!
Thanks for this video. Great explanation on topic
Thanks for your talk
Very bright Sage Info. Enjoyed the open-minded opinions and info.
Nicely done!
Very informative! Thanks for sharing :) I’ll make sure to send some of my soccer players to this video, a strong cardio base goes a long way for these sports too!
Great topic thank you
Great vid thanks
Interesting and informative.
Great video and summary of key points. Yeah I’m 46 and max HR from recent time trial was about 200 so definitely well off standard 220-age.
Great video. A note to anybody who will go the lactate meter route - what coach Sage said is ABSOLUTELY correct. Do not go off of “2 mmol” upper limit. Go jog around the block at a very slow slow jog pace. Immediately take a lactate reading when you get back. Whatever it is, record it. Now go for your run at what you THINK is your zone 2. Come back and immediately take another lactate reading. If it’s RISEN by any more than 1 mmol you probably went too fast. You want it to RISE less than or equal to 1 mmol to ensure you’re in zone 2. Otherwise you’re probably getting into the threshold zone 3 stages where lactate is starting to accumulate more rapidly than being cleared; which is ok on some days maybe. But shouldn’t comprise the bulk of your training, which should be zone 2 (and/or zone 1 also).
Nice explanation, mate. I worry that I drift into Zone 3 when I'm trying to remain in Zone 2. This is mainly due to my Garmin, which often tells me I'm in "Zone 3" when I don't think I am. Sometimes I just think, this Zone 2 malarkey is more hassle than it's bloody worth, so why don't I just job in Zone 3, which seems far far easier? I'll stick at it, though. Three months of Zone 2 (no speed work) is my goal.
Good example almost fits me perfectly ran my recent marathon at 3:06 and my average pace right now is around 8:30 138~hr for me or right around 70% max hr. Bang on
Thanks for the comprehensive talk on Z2 training.
I'm going by percentage of LTHR to determine Z2 but mostly, I rely on my breathing and RPE during the run. I don't check my HR all the time. At the end of the run, I see the data gathered and mostly, I'm in Z2 when it feels easy. As a breathing rhythm, I've established that a 4/4 or more is a sign that I'm running aerobically. That's at least 4 steps each on inhale and exhale. Also, when I come back home from the run, I'm not really tired. If I feel like I could go out and do it all over again (maybe not the 3 hour long runs during marathon training, but anything up to 2 hours), I've run an easy run.
I'm more of a 5K/10K recreational runner, so HR training seems to work for me atm. The only issue I have is sometimes I'm not sure if I'm in Z2 or Z3. I get that Z3 means slightly higher lactate levels, but surely the difference is negligible? Z2 running for me is a slow jog and it takes a lot of discipline to stick to it. However, I feel amazing after a 60 min Z2 jog (6min/km pace) and have zero fatigue throughout the week after doing these runs.
I really appreciate your videos sage. There are a lot of "MAF formula absolutists" out there who simply deny the obvious fact that 220-age or 180-age are not universal prescriptions.
exactly! There is too much individual heart rate variation to be stuck on such a simple formula. It may work for some....but for sure not all!
as a high school coach and having read a large quantity of literature on the subject of slow aerobic mileage base building I have proven that there is ALMOST no limit to how slow you can run to get the benefit from your slow running and the recent science studies prove this. I've proven this to the point that I have an athlete who is in a position to be a state champion for cross country as a junior next year. Sometimes you have to ignore what "popular" opinions are and listen to the data.
Zone 2 seems to be my natural pace these days. I just started my training for a November marathon, so I don't mind just building my base for 4-6 weeks. I'm trying to avoid injury, so I need to take it slow. In the 70's, it was called Long Slow Distance and was a topic in Runners World for awhile until they found another fad training methodology.
haha not training at altitude or hills, I live in Pretoria, a hilly city at 1100m above sea level, my "flat" 5km has 80m elevation gain, and my normal 5km has 150m elevation gain. But this is awesome information. I have been focusing on Zone 2 once a week for a couple of weeks now, and that just brought to my attention how inaccurate my wrist heart rate monitor is. The pace zones make so much more sense, especially for someone like me that is just running for fun, with my only goal being to enjoy running for the next 50 years.
thanks!
New runner here in the last week of your free base building plan. Oh my! It has worked wonders for me. Love your content.
congrats! thanks for following along!
Any progress since this comment, mate? I'm only 3 runs into mine and I already feel more attuned to my HR and pace at Zone 2.
@@goodyeoman4534 A lot of progress actually. Stay patient and your HR keeps dropping at same pace. At some point you'll need to add some steady runs and threshold to improve your PBs to get more bang for your buck though.
@@theunknown21329 Thanks. I have been running for 12 weeks but I was doing it all wrong and getting loads of niggles, hence my change to pure Z2 running for a but.
I do Parkrun each Saturday which I kind of make my tempo run.
@@goodyeoman4534 That's awesome. You'll improve faster than you'll realize. Add in 1-2 rest days if it starts to hurt. Good luck buddy!
Thanks
I remember in High School, even as a 200m and 400m runner, the best year I ever had was when I incorporated some longer endurance work. I was doing a little bit of triathlon training leading into my Senior Year and got the most improvement I've ever experienced. I even did some great 800m races and represented my school district in cross country for the first time!
Easy Runs are enjoyable and they work!
What was your best 400 m time in 800 m time? When you talk about incorporating long runs what was the distance and the pace for those?
@@gzfashions When I was 16, my times were 200m 22.18, 400m 50.18, 800m 2:10.
My long runs I didn't really take my pace due to lack of GPS watches and what not but it was probably around the 5-6min/km mark for about 5km (now those are my short runs 😂)
I was also swimming occasionally and riding a road bike occasionally.
@@liambruhz oh okay i see! Man almost 50 second 400 at that age is impressive!
@@gzfashions I definitely took how fit I was back then for granted 😂 I'd be stoked if I could run a sub 60 400 now haha
Agree on running by pace ranges and taking a solid max effort race (the longer, the better) as a starting point and then use a VDOT calculator to define your intensity zones/paces. 👌
I am a 46 year old runner, started running just 5 years ago and have progressed from a 3:06 down to a 2:43 Marathon using this training method (together with Sage Canaday training advice😁), no heartrate zones, just perceived effort and pace zones calculated by a VDOT calculator to define my training. ✌🏼
Any vdot website could you recommend?
Good job, mate. How might you differentiate between Z2 and Z3 based on perceived effort? I can obviously chat in paragraphs while in Z2, but then I also can do that when my Garmin is telling me I'm in Z3?
In 2019 I did the threshold training. Basically everything was zone 4 for every run. I smashed every pb from 5k to marathon. Right up until I tore my calf and solius muscle. Put me back 3 years. So now for 5 weeks doing zone 2 and follow keto maf training. Hit my highest mileage in March for running and swimming in 7 years.
Support the Whimpering Guys, 😂 That's what you get for thinking you're Kipchoge. Keep training like the genetic freaks and you'll end up a genetic gimp😂🙋🙏
Hi Sage. Loving the channel. I’ve now had a couple of weeks easy after running Boston (2:57:44). Have New York in April and looking for another Sub 3. Looking for a good bit of advice on a Aerobic base training phase. How long it should be, mileage, should it entail double runs.
Thanks.
Just did a run this very morning. And luckily, my neighbor joined me for a run. This was actually a good thing because I finally got to do the "Talking Test" since we're chatting throughout the run.
The thing is according to Garmin, my upper zone-3 is 150 and my zone-4 starts at 151. And yet around 150-155 i can still maintain an effortless conversation with my friend. Until around 158+ then I began to have that long sentence pause, lol.
Again, I'm not sure where my Zone-2 is but i guess 150-155 is good enough for now.
I've never been comfortable using my pulse as a measure for my effort. As a 52 year old guy with a lot on his plat, there are just too may factors in my life to make me trust that alone as a measure of effort and a reliable metric to use in that regard. That being said; I have made real effort at keeping my runs at a slower pace and saving the effort for harder work like intervals and threshold-runs. The results are clear, personal records on 5k, 10k and most likely half-marathon later this year. I feel fresher, faster and it's way easier to get mileage and consistency in my training. As I knew it would, even to an old ex-overwhegt smoker like me. As Sage says, the science is clear.
My main goal for zone 2 training is improving my cardio conditioning in a responsible manner. I make gains in zone 2 by training indoors on the treadmill, stationary bike and elliptical trainer to take advantage outdoors for running. Indoors, it is much easier to keep an eye on my heart rate than outdoors. I use interval modes on my training devices. I.e. rolling hills programs. If I can perform my hour long exercise sessions perfectly in my zone 2 heart rate range for all exercise sessions through one whole week then I increase the difficulty level with one power level. It will take several sessions to exercise perfectly again in zone 2 and I repeat the increase difficulty level process. I believe this is an efficient way of zone 2 training. Outdoors I run more on feel. I don't look at my heart rate that often. Plus, I get a vibration on my Garmin watch when I am out of the zone 2 heart rate pace.
This is great advice for building the aerobic base in my opinion. The frustration in the beginning phases of trying to keep form, tempo and heart rate in check lead to pure misery.
Hey Sage, that’s another very informative video. I just ran the Rotterdam Marathon at 3:13 (PR) using your marathon plan. Slowing down in my easy days has been key to this. I ran my easy km in the middle of my Zone 2. I noticed that my easy pace improved from 5:20/km to 4:50/km over a period of 3 months. I certainly had some pace variation there over the course of a training week, the pace at my recovery run (first session after the weekly long run) was always slower. So the main question that I have is whether it is better to stick to certain HR range over the course of a training period for a race (like I did) or to a certain easy pace and let your HR drop over time?
‘Perceived Effort.’ Thank you! This is the best yardstick for us mediocre, non-techy runners. If you are ‘perceiving’ your run as involving effort, it’s too fast to be zone 2.
Happy Birthday to someone!
Pacer the Dog!
I went to a lab and got an aerobic threshold test where they measured lactate, ventilation, and carbs/fat usage at lowish intensities. Was very useful data and realized I was going too hard even though I could breathe through my nose fine at higher intensities. I think it’s the reason I was making no progress. My maf pace was well above actual aerobic threshold, so I was spinning wheels for a while. Same with talk test
yes a good reason to not rely on "MAF" although the "talk test" as I mentioned can certainly be a bit subjective. What was the protocol? For carbs/fat it's almost always RER and then lactae (in mmol) the cutoff could be "2mmol or 3mmol" etc. "Aerobic Threshold" is also very different from "Lactate Threshold" for example.
@@Vo2maxProductions warmed up first. Had ventilation mask on whole time, bumped up treadmill speed every 3 minutes by 0.5. And measured lactate every 3 min. I can breathe through my nose fine up to about 145-150 bpm and maf is 145ish. During the test my carb/fat crossover was 112 bpm and lactate crossed 2 mmol around 113bpm. I had previously been training around 130-150 bpm and thought that was slow, but wasn’t improving . Lactate and carb % spiked super hard after that hr. Happy to email you the results If you’d like
How much do you pay to test that? Its really cool
@@lowzyyy I think i paid like 150?
@jesseshaver2262 How old are you? Just wondering how your numbers compare to me at 57.
Thanks Sage for another great coach session!. I'm trying to keep this Zone 2 on my easy days, and I think it works!
Nevertheless, I always have the same question when I go out for my long runs at zone 2, while training for a Marathon. I start at 65% heart rate, but after 2 houts running, the heart rate raise until 75%, even 80% at the end (at 2 hours 30minutes). Should I keep the pace, although the HR keeps raising or should I slow down so I keep the HR on the Z2? Thanks in advance!!!
Happy birthday!
So, for those of us mostly limited by available time (suppose I have a hard maximum of 10 hours a week for exercise), what's better: go faster on average and get more mileage in in the available time, or go slower. and reduce mileage accordingly? I suppose it depends, but would be interesting to understand what it depends on.
Absolutely right on! Let's stop obsessing and gizmo-izing about zonology, start obsessing about how we feel, perceived level of effort. Also, let's get focused on the basic idea of training as progressive overload with proper recovery between overload sessions, and don't forget nutrition too.
Can we factor in HR and pace without obsessing, though? I struggle to differentiate btw Z2 and Z3 so have basically stopped caring and just do the talk test.
@@goodyeoman4534 I'm with ya! But since I have no one to talk with, I just do my best to judge by how I'm breathing and by my sense of how "throttled-up" I'm feeling inside.
@@Avianthro I talk to myself lol. Gets funny stares from dog-walkers
@@goodyeoman4534 I guess then that I'll have to admit I sometimes sing but I don't have any dog-walkers around where I live, so I'm not going to drive any dogs to howling I suppose.
My garmin at times has eror but usually it is fairly accurate. When i run over a small hill it goes up a bit. And than after a few steps of controling my breating and form it goes down again. I think its a really usefull tool. I have only been doing low heart rate training for the last week now and it keeps me in check and shows what running easy really feels like.
I don't feel out of breath when running in the 160s bpm and that is not easy pace anymore. And i have never ran a marathon so i don't know my 1 min per mile slower than marathon pace. So in the past i thought i was running easy but really was not. Low heart rate training was a good reality check for me.
You could pay a bit of money to go for a CPET test at your local sports science lab. Most universities have one. There's one in the respiratory department at the hospital where I work, but there's a queue a mile long to use it. Even then, there's some room for error, as your parameters can vary day-to-day based on predictable things like fatigue, mental stress, sleep hygiene etc. They measure loads of stuff: VO2 max, RER, pulse pressure, CO2 levels, lactate threshold 1 and 2 (yes, there are two), even an ECG reading.
Good video. Talk test, breathing rate and perceived effort is the best gauge I think. I know if I'm breathing at around a 4:4 rate then I'm in zone 2, as soo as it goes to 3:3 or 2:2 I know i'm going too hard for zone 2. Is breathing rate something you look at as a valid measure, Sage? Low HR doesn't work for me as it is impossible for me to keep it under 135-40 unless I'm walking or shuffling at 7min kms, no matter how fit I am.
Hey Sage, what's the brand and model of the wood cloth/jacket/bag hanger behind you in the video? Thanks for the info as always!
Thank you for the video! How about zone 1? Does it have significantly less impact on aerobic development than zone 2?
It is good.
Surely if someone has a resting heart rate of 60-70 and another person has a resting heart rate of 40, their easy paces will fall at different % max HR. This is why I quite like % heart rate reserve but usually zone 2 comes out at a higher HR when compared to % max HR
When I run comfortably with 3 steps breathing in, 3 steps breathing out, I am usually at conversational pace/ zone 2.
I just broke 20 min in 5K, I run 42:05 for 10K last summer. My zone 2 pace is around 6:00 per Km, only then I can keep my average HR below 70% of my max. I am 37 and my HR max is about 200.
Some workouts I would see even higher HR reading, like 202 I saw this week in a hill repeats, but I just wanna keep things simple with round numbers.
I’m the same age and right about at the same times as you, although you do have me beat by a bit. I’m 37 with a 21:30 5k, 44 resting and 196 max HR. My comfortable pace at around 145HR is about 6:00/km also.
I can comfortably run 170BPM for 55min+, 176BPM for 40min+. That’s as far as I took them, and that was the average HR over the time period. I could have kept on going but decided to stop. It was a fun experiment. I was trying to find that “lactate threshold” that I could maintain for an hour.
@@ryanmiskin8925 you have a really low resting HR, that’s amazing. My resting HR is around 55.
As of tempo pace, I run 2*5K(22mins) with 3 min rest at 4:23 per K pace, that’s my current tempo workout pace running outside on paved bike lanes, considering the wind and terrain.
On the treadmill with 1% gradient I run at 4:20 for 2*20 mins for my tempo workout.
I am training for a half marathon in 5 weeks, aiming at 4:25 pace (93 mins), considering the course will be mainly downhill.
My zone 2 is also around 6/km and I wish I could run 5/10k as fast as you, I can hardly crack 5/min for those distances
@@larryphotography Today is a windy day and my average pace over 15km is 6:20 per K, 10:12 per mile.
Run slow to run more, so you can run fast in races.
Good talk. I think running easy is very important. But then again I think beginners like me can overthink this. I'd go by feel. Some days easy becomes steady or moderate. Its ok. Regarding the Ingebrigtsens. I think the Ingebrigtsens try doing their easy days 2x10 km at extremely easy 4:00/km (at least two of those days pr week), but often end up at 3:15:or 3:30 pace. But I do think the Ingebrigtsens do their weekly longruns (20 k) a little faster, probably steady.
I love all your training talks but this was my favorite for some reason….probably bc I’m a relaxed, steady state distant runner. I just gave birth our 6th baby and can’t wait to get back at it!
When I compare my chest strap and Apple Watch and they are always within 1 bpm of each other. When I’m rapidly changing paces, such as repeats, sometimes the Apple Watch lags a second behind. But I’m typically looking at heart rate at steady state, so my watch works as good as the chest strap.
Which model watch?
@@jorgearevalo162 I have Apple Watch Series 7.
My heart rate monitor seems pretty good to me. It’s only ever a proxy for blood lactate, but that doesn’t make it not useful, just imperfect. … just make sure you have your garmin set to calculate zones based on heart rate reserve
I have a chest strap HR monitor and a Garmin forerunner 245, I found that on easy days, their recording are almost identical. But when it comes to hill sprints, repetition, even interval sections, then HR varies a lot, the discrepancy is quite large, 10-20 beat difference at any given time is common.
that's a big difference! The tell tale sign (of HR strap errors) is when you do a workout like hill repeats or the same distance, same speed track intervals (in good conditions) and you see "shark fin pattern spikes" with the HR rise (and drop during rest intervals). If it's not smooth when you are pacing yourself very evenly that's usually a red flag.
So is the watch higher than the strap or vice versa?
@@rundown132 the watch is lower.
Garmin wrist based heart rate monitors (watches) are actually really accurate these days
Hey Sage,
What are your thoughts on improving CO2 tolerance? Through nasal breathing and short breath holds? Higher CO2 =better oxygen delivery right?
I think my zone 2 is 133-144 using Apple Watch ultra. I have considered a strap but I haven’t gotten used to using it. I wonder if being in low 140’s vs being in the 130’s makes a difference. This changes a bit by the day, weather, course etc
according to the 220-age my max hr should be 179 while i've actually hit 193 on multiple occasions while running and i even think it can go even higher with a proper test so yes, i agree people should never use a standardised formulas as we are all different.
HELP. I am overweight and I am trying to do this Zone 2 training. I enjoy walking and running. I am on zone 1 while walking and whenever I start running, it jumps to zone 3 no matter how slow i jog. I cant stay on zone 2 except running and walking simultaneously. What should I do?
This is a fascinating subject but one that i find incredibly hard to get a handle on. I'm a 61 old man with a resting heart rate of 44 that started running 5 years ago to just lose weight. Achieved that with losing 4.5 stones (63 pounds) and for first 3 years just ran and had 5k 27.30. 10k 58.20 and Half 2.12.30. which i was happy with. Thought with this zone 2 and conversational pace training i could get those times bit lower before i get much older. Training 80% in my conversation zone (2... below 130 bpm) but didn't feel i was getting benefit at all and ran a quite flat half race last weekend in 2.29.45 and had to walk most of last 2 miles. Impossible for anyone to give advice i know but this running can be Very disheartening at times. Thanks for all your vids and advice and hope you are feeling somewhat better.
It is pretty easy to get those 20% of volume as mixed up pace workouts. I've heard that it is better to do your faster stuff as dedicated fast workouts. So, for example, instead of fartleks or short intervals, try to do them as steady continuous higher effort runs whenever possible. That way your body can adjust or attune to such efforts better. Or, have you already tried that?
Additionally, you have a pretty wide heart rate reserve. Perhaps your zone 2 pace has been too easy? I'm 76 and have a max heart rate of 170, resting heart rate 51, and my ventilatory threshold is noticible (obviously more breathing effort) at 134 bpm once I've gotten in the groove of the run. So I run my "zone two" at 134 +/- 4 bpm - - - assuming: 70% of heart rate reserve, plus resting heart rate, equals my high end nominal heart rate for zone 2. Feels just mildly fatiguing throughout the day after the morning 4 or 5 mile run,. so probably just right. Just sharing the details so you can see how alike or different our efforts are.
@@ralphhancock7449 . Interesting Ralph. My 20 % has been made up with fartlek and short interval type runs and general speed type runs. I've never really had any test to work out what my max HR is and have only gone on what others have said to me. I think in the first few years where i just ran by how i felt i must have been getting it right as i was faster and fitter. Now with following plans, it has taken me away from what is best for me and my body. Think i will return to my old "feel" running that i enjoyed and made the biggest difference. Thanks for you reply. Has helped 👍
I've just taken my pulse during intense activity, getting above 165. My Garmin tells me that my high end is 170, and since I use the Garmin to tell me my heart rate during the run, I figure it is all a relative thing - all relative to Garmin readings, whether biased high or low. I just want to avoid overtaxing my heart, so I like to stay away from lactate threshold during my bread and butter runs. If Garmin reads 5 points too high, then it is safer for me. Don't need to thicken my heart walls by going too hard. But if I go by feel, I easily end up doing fast finish runs all the time. By staying below a certain heart rate, I avoid accidental speeding, and afterwards I see that my speed was rock steady.
Hi Sage, thanks for the insight, I took up running during lockdown here in the UK. The issue I’m finding is at 60, it’s difficult to stay in zone 2. Any suggestions on how to improve this? Keep up the great work my friend I’ve found the information invaluable
Simple, slow down !
Either go at slower pace or stop and walk till hr is in zone 2, its not easy and can be a huge struggle
Thanks man I'm losing weight 🎉
How about equally run at zone 2 3 and 4 on every run. I think that will make you better quicker. Someone should experiment and test this against only zone runners
Thanks Sage for this training talk! Question… As a new runner, I’ve been told to gauge my perceived effort with HR because otherwise it’s common for new runners to run with a higher HR and think that effort level is their norm or their “easy pace”. If I base my z2 off of pace charts using recent stats race times to determine easy run pace, I find i quickly get fatigue or injury. When I base it off HR then I’m stuck walking to keep my HR down. What are some guidelines or recommendations for new runners first learning to determine easy effort/pace? Is walking okay or better to run even if HR goes up quickly to z3 or 4 and stays there for the remainder of the run? I have a max HR based on a recent race with a HR strap (196) if that makes a difference.
Its easy. Run at pace so that you can talk at least one sentence at once.
If you cant say at least 6-7 words easily then you need to slow down your pace.
Do you think one should walk in zone 2 if they can’t run in it until they can run in it?
hi coach, true beginner here.. i just downloaded your free aerobic base building schedule. my question is: my pace is very very slow, it's not running, barely even jogging, it only qualifies as 'fast walking' pace 😅, the suggested 4-5 miles easy would take me about 1hour10-20min to complete, & the long run 6-7 miles would probably took +-2hours.. can i use time instead? say 1 hour for normal easy run, & 90 minutes for long run..
@ 6:04 . . . Chest strap HR monitors are pretty darn accurate but they do drop out from time to time but you can usually tell when it's wrong. We dont need them to be scientifically exact just to monitor zones and calories.
220 minus age is never was a max HR but a maximum SUSTAINABLE heart rate. I dont know how people get this confused. It's basically just an easy estimated number between Aerobic threshold and Anaerobic threshold. 220 minus age at 69 years old it would be 151 but that's just a few points over my Polar estimated aerobic threshold. My max is 183 just walking fast up a half mile STEEP hill but maybe higher cuz I can still talk at that level. I could probably get it higher on a third lap.
would you push the pace/HR on easy run trail when you encounter a hill? or start walking/slow down if needed for z2
both. If it's a true recovery run and the day needs to be kept easy (muscles are sore or there is a speed workout coming up) then I'd slow down or walk. Some days it's okay to let the HR spike a tad and drift upwards on uphills though. Usually the slower uphills (walking) is meant to give the legs/muscles a break instead of strictly keeping the HR down.
I just take 180 minus my age (47) and realize it’s not correct for me. I have a 188 Max HR, lactate threshold is 172 bpm. I figured this out by running consistently and how I was feeling at a certain HR. Zone 2 is 145 to 155 for me so basically 12 to 22 bpm above MAF. If I add 10 to the MAF formula because I’ve been consistently running I’m still 2 to 12 bpm above.
I know it just means I’m potentially wasting 2-12 bpm of energy because I’d still be possibly building my aerobic base at 100% efficiency if I just stay between a 133 and 143 HR.
Either way I feel great so I just stay with what works for me. You should to!
All of you will know through consistency what works for you.
lately i've been running 5k each day at what feels like a light pace to me, but my watch always says i'm in zone 3. So should i just assume my watch may not be giving me an accurate reading, and just go by feel, and assume i am running in zone 2? I'm going at a pace where i could hold a conversation, i spend about 45 minutes running those 5k.
3:03 marathon sounds impossible, but 8:15 z2? That feels attainable. I must try.
Are there people for whom the easy pace doesn't go down automatically?
My natural easy pace hovers around 10:00 per mile from the moment I started running 1 mile at a time, until today at close to 70 miles per week.
I have access to a lot more "gears" and am much faster. But I'm generally going the same speed I always have on my easy run days. Feels like a 2-3 out of 10 on effort. When I threw on a chest strap out of curiosity it's 125-135 bpm.
if you are much faster at racing and have "more gears" now I wouldn't worry too much about the "easy run " pace. I feel like mine has been stuck around the same pace for the last 20 years (From age 15 to age 35 for example).
Hey Sage. What are your tips on what to do when overtrained? I have currently increased my milage quite a bit and my fitness is just not getting better. I am doing okay on the workouts but going into every race fatigued. It is frustrating as a D1 college runner
are you taking your easy days really easy to rest/up and absorb the harder efforts? If you're running D1 in season there is probably a lot of peer pressure and team pressure to maybe run too fast on Easy days? You're also going to be following your coach's workouts so depending on that training it could influence how you race (and how often you race?)
7:41 I bet your MAX HR is higher than 175 bpm. You just need more time(intervals) to reach it and you need to be more fresh than when you were younger.
Can running helps u to burn fat
My problem with measuring intensity as a fraction of the max HR is that it does not take rest HR into account. The error is small at high intensities, but can be significant around zone 2 this video is about. Currently I am lying on my bed with my HR between 40 and 45, yet still training at 25% of my max HR (which is 161). Otherwise I agree and like the content.
I think you have a typo in there? 25%? I'm NOT talking about "heart rate reserve" as resting HR can certainly drift downwards with fitness increases while max 100% HR won't move (or increase). It's rather % of your max HR.
@@Vo2maxProductions I know you were not talking about heart rate reserve, I just calculated my resting heart rate as the fraction of my max hr, which is approximately 25%. Am I missing something?
So what if you live at high altitude? We moved from the east coast at the end of last summer to the mountains in the west to about 8100-8200ft. I have trained by HR for years and that was totally blown out of the water coming here. I recalibrated my low zones at high altitude and even running super easy, it's terribly difficult to keep my HR down at the slightest incline and breathing is still hard. Is it just one of those things that takes a long time, or never really gets easier?
It gets easier initially.....then it never gets any easier and it's always harder at altiude (breathing is pretty much always higher and any little hill or headwind is felt much harder) compared to sea level. So expect paces to be slower and adjust! Sandi and I live and train at 7000' and I'd say (Even after living in CO for 11 years now) it's about 20 sec/mile harder up here then it is for me at sea level still
I’d say top of zone 2 is where your lactate exceeds 2mmol. That’s what uphill athlete says. And fat/carb crossover usually lines up with that fairly well too
maybe for "most people" (But certainly not all). Depends on some genetic factors as well as experience level, training level, age etc.
Hi Sage, great vids! How come you hardly ever touch on the topic of running with power (zones)? This is for me superior to running on pace or heart rate...
I've done multiple talks over the past 5 years on "Running with Power"....I generally see it as even being less accurate. They are using accelerometers and algorithms at best to make estimates (usually just based on running velocity). It is very, very unlike cycling where I'd say Power Meters are the absolute gold standard of training and racing performance. This is due to the obvious mechanical differences. To me it all just comes down to the Physics.
I kind of feel that 140 bpm is my Z2 max, I try to stay in Z2 in my warmups and cooldowns when I have a fartlek training or interval and also I have some specific Z2 runs but it is so hard to hold myself back, often times I just pass it with 2-4 bpm, I’m not sure if I should worry about this, should I be more strict or just don’t worry about the stats and go with my feeling?
I wouldn't be too worried about 2-4bpm as that is such a small number.
@@Vo2maxProductions thanks for your reply, sometimes I just get lost in the details too much 😀
60% of max is very low. That's a gentle walk for most people.
Not if you determine your max correctly and you go 3+ hours. 60% is lower z2 which you ought to do more than 3 hours.
Nog Lydiard but Ernst van Aaken is the father of the longrun and training by heartrate.
It is hard to get an accurate heart rate when you get so much motion artifacts just from the running motion!
Get a chest strap. Garmin has a good one.
first it feels like you have something new to share. then after going through the whole video, not sure what we're arriving at. samething?
How are you feeling compared to 2 weeks ago bud ? Hope all going well.
doing well thanks!
I still
Don’t understand Zone training ( I use COROS watch and they got 3 different zone setting and not sure which one I should follow😔) Max heart rate/ Heart rate deserve/ threshold HR???
COROS should actually have 5 zones (look in the app). They laebel them differently as Zone 2 is more like what they'd call "Fat Burnning". Max Heart rate is just that.....100% highest heart rate you can get (which you probably might not know). Heart rate reserve is the difference between your max HR and your lowest resting pulse. When "Threshold" is involved that is usually referring to "Anaerobic Threshold" or "Lactate Threshold" (same thing) and is a harder effort (over 80% for example).
@@Vo2maxProductions I set up my watch again😍🙏
I wonder when we'll reach Peak Zone 2, and then "influencers" will pivot to "Zone 3 is the greatest!".
What’s really frustrating is that everyone has their own Z2 definition. How’s 75% Zone 2?
I have a REALLY hard time finding my max HR. Been using running watches as a hr monitor for about three years and when I’ve compared them with chest straps I get the exact same reading. The highest HR I’ve seen is 178 (I’m 43). When running an all out 5k my HR maxes out at around 167bpm before I collapse, but I held around 158bpm for 2h 20mins in a 27k trail race, and I don’t think I would have been able to do that if my max HR was truly 178. What do you think, internet coaches? 😄
The 158 number wasn't your average cadence during a 2:20 trail race? I'd first question the accuracy of the HR monitor. I'd also say that perhaps your max HR is higher than what you've seen. It's hard to tell without a lab Vo2max test (where they basically can put an EKG on you as well).
@@Vo2maxProductions Thanks for the input! No, my cadence was 177 spm and I actually really trust my watch on this one. Coros pace that I wear way up on the inside of my forearm and wearing it this way it has been very accurate when I’ve compared it to a chest strap. Not really knowing my max hr has made me way better at going by feel though, so I’m happy enough. Just a little frustrating at times.
Hi Sage...Nice to see you back running.
I notice you said 'coach' with inverted commas.
So I'd like to ask.
Are you or Sandy QUALIFIED coaches?
Or is this a self-titled coaching with formal paid for qualifications.
Thanks
I didn't know there was a specific qualification to be a coach? I mean, I've been running for over 25 years, I have a college Degree in a Science, I've had lot of lay study in running training for the past 20 years and basically experienced any surface any distance events myself. Sandi has taken some classes (Lydiard etc) but we learn from the athletes we work with and teammates/competitors we've trained with and raced with over the decades. I coached myself to getting 16th place at Boston and to winning quite a few ultras and mountain races. I also "air quote" lots of things randomly so there's that too!
Why not talk about some shorter runs that you can use to dial in your zones? Running a 5K race and taking that result into Training Peaks can give you a great result for pace, heart rate, and power if you have a way to measure it. I do a warmup followed by a 20-minute time trial on the track to get my zones.
Another aspect that I find helpful is that once you are settled into zone 2, heart rate should stay closely correlated to your pace (assuming flat terrain and steady winds) until you reach the limit of your trained endurance. At that point, I see my HR start to rise to hold a steady pace (known as cardiac drift).
5:18
my zone 2 is 12 minute pace
in my eyes regarding your example a 3h 3 min marathoner wouldn’t do anything wrong doing zone 2 runs at 5:50 to 6:00 min/km
That's pretty slow for a 3:03 marathoner for "zone 2." I would call that "zone 1"....which is fine for "recovery runs"
is it detrimental to your ability to burn fat if you consume carbs before or during long zone 2 runs?
depends. How long of a long run? (distance and duration)? How much time before and what type of carbs/sugar? Generally we have athletes take in gels during a Long Run to train the stomach/gut and to practice race day nutrition plans....however that is usually on harder long run efforts with fast pace changes (and more race pace miles). For pure "fat burning" in theory you could take less gels and not eat a super sugary breakfast right before it. Generally if you are running high mileage and running long you will start burning some % of fat as you get into your run and glycogen stores dip (and that is regardless of diet). The % of fat burned doesn't necessarily correspond to actual performance gains and can even hurt some aspects of your speed/power. The body generally can run faster on glyocegn and ingested carbs....but it is always a combination of burning some % of the body's fat stores as fuel as well as glycogen/ingested carbs during a long distance race like a marathon or ultra
I agree that there’s so much variability between individuals when defining zones. Im 50 years old. Only running for 6 years. My max HR registered on my garmin chest strap is 194. The upper end of Z2 would translate to 145bpm which seems a bit low to me. At 145 I barely feel like im working. I can talk long sentences at this pace. I also did a half marathon with an avg HR of 181. I feel like the zones are a bit off for me OR 194 isn’t truly my max. Im just going to use HR trends to adjust my training and perceived effort prevails i guess.
When I run comfortably with 3 steps breathing in, 3 steps breathing out, I am usually at conversational pace/ zone 2.
I just broke 20 min in 5K, I run 42:05 for 10K last summer. My zone 2 pace is around 6:00 per Km, only then I can keep my average HR below 70% of my max. I am 37 and my HR max is about 200.
Some workouts I would see even higher HR reading, like 202 I saw this week in a hill repeats, but I just wanna keep things simple with round numbers.
That’s a crazy HR for a half, that’s about what I have for my 5k races and my max HR is 196. But I’m with you on the 145, feels like I’m barely working. I can do 5 step in and 5 out with my breathing with zero issue, maybe even 6 on the in and 5 out.
150-155 feels a lot better in terms of getting a decently better pace with just a little higher HR. I can easily do 4 in and 4 out breathing, and I could do it for 2 hours if I wanted.
If you did a half marathon with a 181 HR ave and your apparent "max" is 194 then that means you ran an entire half marathon averaging 93% of your supposed Max. Are you racing the half in close to 60-min? Most people can certainly not hold over Lactate Threshold (Tempo) intensity for more than 60-min....and for most people (Even pretty experienced runners) Lactate Threshold is happening more at like 86-90% of Max HR.
But Z2 is supposed to be that easy. Like you're barely working. Like you could do it all again when you're done. That's the whole point of easy runs right? They're supposed to be easy. It should feel a little counterintuitive. Easy days easy, hard days hard etc.
@@Vo2maxProductions it doesn’t make sense. I agree. And no, i cannot run a 60min half. Lol. I wonder if my max HR is actually over 200. I know that when i wrestled in college, it certainly was. I do believe the 181 avg HR though. I know what 180 feels like and know what pace corresponds to that.
I don't think it makes any sense to use a % of max heart rate since biology isn't the same from person to person. The full sentence rule is a lot more precise for each individual.
part of the biology being different from person to person is the difference in number of max Heart-rate......so if we go by a fraction (or percentage) of our own max heartrate number we are taking that biology into account as it is personally relative.
Holy mother........MAKE YOUR POINT!