EDF Powered Jet Car - High Speed Aero Stability
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 сер 2022
- Enter at www.omaze.com/rctestflight for your chance to win an Unplugged Tesla S-APEX Plaid, and support a great cause, the Juju Foundation.
Previous video about this car: • RC Car to Ground Effec...
Support rctestflight: / danielriley - Наука та технологія
everybody commenting about a longer wheelbase...the entire point is, to stabilize it with aerodynamics and not the wheelbase
With the front wheels also actively turning though, I think there is inherent instability fighting the aerodynamics. Locking the front wheels so they don't turn would reduce but not eliminate it. The scale of the real world road surface to the short wheelbase and tire size is another factor aerodynamics is going to struggle with. A very cool project, but aero is only going to do so much.
I think the whole point was simply to make money.
@@andrebazenga8639 and why not 🤷🏽♂️ all of us really enjoy watching this stuff so it's awesome that he's making money from it and has a good reason to continue making this awesome content for us :P don't be jealous bro lol
Point is to go fast! means keep it stable, wheel base on its own won't cut it - see section on full size speed record car - but too short a wheelbase is inherently unstable particulary with aero force acting so far outside the wheelbase and C of G .
@@jabberwockytdi8901 very well said.
I kept hoping during those high speed passes that you’d hit your secret swing-wing deploy button and absolutely launch it into the sky
I vote for this to be incorporated
@@laska907 seconded
@@chandar4959 Thirded
@@arduav1 fortheded
@@GiffysChannel fifthedthfifth
I'd love to see a ground effect vehicle that has a single wheel with suspension
It could work, but I think the wheel would have to be wider than a normal wheel for takeoff
super cool idea
like a glider when landing!
Like the mono-ski thingies in The Last Jedi??
@@pauloraposo8674 hadnt thought of it but sure that would be cool too!
9:00 lmao. His buddy is like “bro…that was fast for a full scale car”
70mph is very impressive, the new speed rc car speed record is 204mph, maybe a bigger edfs and blheli escs, you could definitely go 100mph to 150mph. Great Job!
You could also potentially use a jet turbine when the control system matures.
Shouldn’t it be relatively easy to cram a bunch of powerful motors into a very aerodynamic form factor, add just enough batteries for a single run and go?
@@Mike-oz4cv the problem now is the wheel/tire technology is prohibiting things. Tires will just blow apart even tho the car still has more juice in it
@@bigblockbumpside2296 There has to be an easy solution, after all, we just need the tyres to stay on. No need for turning performance or suspension. Even rubber bolted to the wheels could work. For a big RC car you could use the smallest road bike tyres with 349mm rim diameter.
Steel disk wheels. gauge stainless. Not looking for traction just the bottom 1/3 exposed and a nose wheel.
It probably needs the battery weight but if not then super capacitors.
Might need active wing control like his ground effects boat/car/planes
for brakes you could swap the spur gear for a metal disk and use a servo for to press a pad against is essentially making a disk brake
and deploy a mini parachute for extra style points.
That thing sounds gorgeous! I noticed this effect when I first saw the Vancouver Indy. It was the sound of the air over the aerodynamics you heard as the cars approached and the sound of the engine was completely masked until the cars passed by.
Scale your edf beast up a tad & you'll have a powered longboard!
I like that sound too.
For powered longboard you’d need a lot of torque, I imagine that his vehicle weighs around 10-15 pounds max meaning probably 10 or more times as many edfs needed to maintain the same acceleration. Overall any type of aero propulsion probably isn’t suited for longboard due to low torque-size ratio
@@sambenedict7804 you may be partially correct but i think you forget the weight added by the extra edfs and the subsequently larger battery to power them. the edf solution likely doesn’t have the energy potential needed for a good powered long board without some fundamental changes. thinking a small jet engine, or of course the simple solution of electric motor but that’s just a regular electric skateboard and would be no fun.
It looks so freakin awesome! Imagine it with steel wheels on a salt flat 🔥
Salt flats are not really all that flat on such a small case
To really get it flat enough for a car with an inch of travel it has to be ice. Frozen lake or speed skating rink. Probably not long enough.
I absolutely love seeing the cool things you build/fly/float/drive in front of the backdrop of our city. Every time I drive over that tall bridge over the lake, I look over the edge and try to spot you down there. Thanks for being passionate enough to build these things, and thanks even more for doing the extra work to film and share these with us.
70 mph is pretty impressive not gonna lie. For a cheap RC car with a depron shell I wouldn’t really compare it to the several 1000 dollar car that got to 200 isn’t really fair
You are not wrong, though there are off the shelf wheel driven cars of the same small size doing 70mph, for not an enormous amount of money.
@@GoldenCroc True. Still pretty cool though I think
It's actually a wing on the back of the F1 car not a spoiler.
Spoilers are less common and specificly don't provide downforce but spoil airflow just like spoilers on an airliner that are used to spoil the lift of the wings so when it lands it plants itself on the runway rather than bouncing.
Spoilers on cars can be used both to prevent aerodynamic lift and/or to reduce drag by modifying the aerodynamics of the cars wake.
Many people incorrectly call rear wings spoilers because there isn't much incentive to teach people the difference.
Probably because no one cares 😂
A rear spoiler provides downforce by utilizing the leverage generated by the drag of the air hitting the spoiler pushing the rear of the vehicle into the track. F1/Indy cars have rear wings, but Nascar runs spoilers for downforce except for the COT Nascar racecars in 2008 which had a wing however they quickly realized it generated dangerous lift when the car got turned and went back to a spoiler instead.
@@boardsort That technicy should not be called just a spoiler then.
It's a spoiling wing
In aerodynamics most surfaces are named based on the intended role and not how it is achieved.
This is why a flat sheet of foam is still a wing on a simple RC plane even though it lacks an airfoil.
If its purpose is to generate downforce it it a wing, if the purpose is to spoil undesirable airflow its a spoiler.
If its purpose is both it should be names as both to be consistent.
There are combo names when the surface has multiple roles.
Elevon, spoilerons, ruddervators, ect.
Hands down one of, if not my favourite creator out there, you’re a fkn legend bro, keep it up 🔥
I believe a longer wheelbase could provide enough stability to keep it going straight
Road one of those,u wont believe wat happend..¿¿¿
the only thing I wanna add is the speed record is now 204. James Mccoy beat nick cases 202 run 2 months ago. but it may get neat this weekend by Raz shifren and Kevin talbot. there is a big meet up going on for speed runs. and several ppl are bringing the best of what they have and Raz has done 199 so fingers crossed. love watching the stuff you come up with keep it up.
This video man. No negativity just pure discovery and excitement, it's igniting the inventive passion of a kid in their backyard with a saw and some timber. Your projects are building apon themselves and you're going from strength to strength, I look foward to the revolutionary flying machine you're eventually going to build.
I love watching you build these vehicles! It's one of my very favorite parts of the videos! ☺️
And the speed was definitely something to be proud about! You can do anything! You are so stinkin' smart!
It might be useful to add a gps and compass and use, in iNav terms, heading hold mode when steering. That way all you input is speed and your rudder input is setting the heading instead of actually steering.
Would the compass speed/precision be enough though?
@@dcnick3 It wouldn't be hard to try
You beat me to it by 3 weeks! Always wanted to make a flying car and had been at it for the last couple weeks, today I found this while researching fans...
I can't wait to see what information you'll dissect from testing and research.
Absolutely fascinated with your work and content.
Thanks a ton!
For your consideration.
The car needs a bigger wheel base, at least as long as 3/4 the length of the whole body. All land-speed cars have big wheel bases. You should google it.
The EDF motors should have aero covers, i'd redo the body to accommodate them inside, or make their own nacelles.
Mount the motors in such a way the vector of the thrust force produced is not trying to twist or pitch the car's direction thus making it "meta-stable" at speed.
The motor's thrust should have a clear "path", e.g. not encounter any control surfaces like vertical stabilizers.
The body could benefit from a good set of well placed stabilizing thins/winglets to help it keep straight and leveled.
Brakes, you need mechanical and aero brakes, aero-brakes to first slowdown to a reasonable speed so the mechanical brakes can operate without over heating or suffering catastrophic wear.
Best of luck will be looking forward for part 2. :)
You're missing the whole point of the video. Of course you could have a bigger wheel base but then it wouldn't require active stabilization.
@@bragr_ No i did not, but you've completely missed the goal of my comment. If he does decide to further this project he now has this simple list pointing out things to improve in the next version. He has every right to ignore these, follow some and or all. i'm not pointing a gun to anyone, i'm just a person with a higher education on these matters and want to help out. So.. "cool your jets", alright?
I just love your videos!
Keep up the great content.
Love from Germany.
I think that a longer wheelbase might keep it more stable and reduce oscillations that are likely robbing you of speed and efficiency.
I'm impressed. You solved a tricky problem...control and stability. At that scale? Yep. Tricky. Well done!
I love that Doppler effect as it passes you by! It sounds sweet!
This could definitely use some additional mechanical damping and softer springs.
Also, make it auto-trim with a lydar sensor in the nose.
I think you could probably get it to 100 this way with a new 6s battery. Also, remember that having the center of force directly behind the center of mass will always be the most stable, offsetting your thrust means the center of pressure needs to be corrected aerodynamically, which is not ideal and costs you speed. Notice how the Thrust vehicle has it's engines slung way down low, that's for the reason above, keeping everything as aligned as it can be.
Yes, turning down the dual rates makes a difference. There are speed runs that exceed 200 mph on a 1/10 scale car. The new goal is 205 mph. The 1/14 scale buggy you used can go faster than 70 mph with the stock body. You need a better/ smoother surface for speed runs. A front wing would help too.
It's a 1/7 scale, not a 1/10 scale. This is completely different it's much harder to get to 70mph without power to the wheels. It's not the same. He has a different goal here. Making the buggy go 70 mph using power to the wheels is easy. This is much harder. His issue is not the road surface, His issue is the wheelbase. The body is long and the buggy is on the center axis causing it to overcorrect.
@@FarmerFpv What's up bro!
Always blows me away the stuff that you just seem to throw together for the fun of it... Keep up the good work... Love your vids!
There is a type of software thats programmable into the flight computer of this RC vehicle known as yaw dampening.
Heres what it does:
Yaw dampening, sometimes called a stability augmentation system, is a mechanism used in aircraft to reduce unwanted side-to-side oscillations, particularly a phenomenon known as the "Dutch roll". It works by automatically adjusting the rudder, the vertical control surface on the tail, to counter these motions and provide a smoother, more stable flight.
Here's a breakdown of what yaw dampening does:
Purpose:
1. Reduces unwanted movements:
It prevents excessive yawing (side-to-side movement) and rolling, especially the Dutch roll, which is a combination of both.
2. Improves comfort:
By counteracting these oscillations, yaw dampening creates a smoother ride for both pilots and passengers.
3.Reduces pilot workload:
Pilots don't need to constantly adjust the rudder pedals to counteract these motions, making flying less tiring and demanding.
How it works:
1. Sensors:
It uses sensors like gyroscopes and accelerometers to detect the aircraft's yaw rate and direction.
2. Control system:
These sensors feed information to a control system which calculates the necessary rudder deflection.
3. Rudder adjustment:
The control system then sends signals to a servo motor that adjusts the rudder accordingly.
Applications:
1. Many modern aircraft:
Yaw dampening is a common feature in both jet-powered and propeller-driven aircraft, from small private planes to large airliners.
2. Automatic or manual:
Some yaw dampeners are automatic, engaging and disengaging at specific points in flight, while others are manually controlled by the pilot.
Additional points:
1. Yaw dampening doesn't replace pilot skill, but it's a valuable tool for maintaining stability and reducing workload.
2. Some aircraft, particularly those with sensitive handling characteristics, may require multiple yaw dampening systems for safety reasons.
I hope this explanation clarifies what yaw dampening is and how it works in your RC Streamliner car project featured in this video.
Think about this, as it could help you.
If you need assistance, I am a freelance programmer.
nick@debeentechsolutions.net
man if only that one plane that crashed didn’t have its yaw dampers fail
id like to see you do a long range autonomous zeppelin someday. thatd be pretty cool imo.
I think it would be really cool if your vehicle's thrust came from a pair of horizontal axis cyclorotors, which would allow you to do rapid thrust vectoring. Not only would this eliminate the need for elevators, but you can very quickly change from accelerating forwards to accelerating backwards (braking) without needing to slow down the motors and speed them up in reverse.
In other words, it would be a cyclocopter/cyclogyro, but on wheels. :)
The braking solution worked well... all these little experiments are helping you gain ever more insights.
Man I really want to see you take this to the next level, a full land speed RC car would be mental
I am surprised the wheels of the car were never mentioned, you are going for a speed record on offroad tires. In my opinion that should be optimized before more power is added. Also with roll stabilization enabled 3 wheels may be enough.
I would try adding side stabilization to the rear wing, that should keep it stable horizontally
I think he said it had yaw stabilization
@@davidsteinhour5562 well as far as I can tell from the video he still really struggled to keep it under control
«You say that like thats not incredibly fast»
Took the words right out my head
love that youre using F1 examples!
How about some more long distance autonomous flying? Or something with a helicopter? 👍👍👍
Curious if placing the the engines farther ahead of the carriage increases stability. Pretty cool build
Love it. Hopefully with bigger EDFs you also make it a longer wheelbase. I am seriously impressed how stable it was considering that short wheelbase. KUDOS
I remember when you did this in early days of fpv ...awesome
What if you tried to make some side pods on that like the Thrust SSC? Could you put the EDCs in series pairs on either side? I feel like creating some pods for your vehicle would help a bit with the drag, though it might be more engineering than its worth, depending on how much you feel like investing into this project.
Why not eliminate drag by reducing the number of wheels in contact with the ground at speed, since the EDF Powered Jet Car is so aerodynamically stable at speed?
Would be cool to drive the worlds fasted one-wheel vehicle.
(also the shortest possible wheelbase)
@rctestflight This a S C A M 👆
I mentioned this once on your one of your videos, "Why aren't you working for DARPA or participate in USSOCOM Technical Experimentation event?"
I argue with people about 'hyper-sonic' tech and they can't comprehend what individuals, such as yourself and other college students are doing, are basically doing in their 'garage'. Just imagine what else is being accomplished by major weapon and tech companies are doing.
What you're doing is epitome of our country's educational opportunities which offer the ability to share knowledge, experience, wisdom, and especially the use of one's imagination.
In my humble opinion, you're an inspiration, especially to someone who didn't recognize my own abilities until I was much older. Thanks.
First time viewer, love what you're doing. We were thinking if you reduced the length the outer shell by half or even a quarter you wouldn't need a longer wheel base and we think it would improve stability. But great video, really good content for me and my kids to watch and find solutions for problems. Will definitely go thru your videos and see what else you have. Really good job.
this looked like it was such a cool project to make, i wish i had the recources for this kind of stuff
@rctestflight is this real?
Bro you are insane! Love your content! Cheers from Denmark!
More POWAH BABY ! another cool build mate
The "SSC" in Thrust SSC is for "Super Sonic Car" which is how i remember the acronym. Fantastic video as always
Cheeseburger
No
Replace the wheels with narrow steel wheels. The current wheels are designed for grip, which means they create a lot of rolling resistance. Also, 3 wheels is better than 4.
Love these videos, and I'm not even an RC enthusiast. Keep on keepin' on!
You are the best, keep pushing it! Imagine carbon fiber body, two rc turbine engines and improved wheels!
Why don't you try this while on the car:
Take a camera with object tracking and use it to keep the car centered on the X axis of the camera using a PID controller
In that way, you just need to aim the camera (tripod mounted if possible) the the center of the road and the controller will take care of the rest
Edit: like this so he sees it
There is probably a very good chance that the camera doesn’t have a fast enough frame rate for it to really be stable. Also latency would be a big problem. You would also need to find an object tracking camera that can output the position of the object in a format that could easily be transmitted to the car.
In reality the camera and object detection are probably too slow and have too much latency for it to really work well.
Like last 5-10 videos, you were secretly building future hovercraft. badass.
I would comment some suggestions but I already know you will test and retest many different of your own ideas. Good stuff!
Awesome project.
Controller tip: use both your thumb and forefinger on the “thumb” sticks. Can hold the transmitters weight with 3 fingers or use the neck strap.
The bouncy ride of the chase vehicle your in will cause you to input fluctuations (especially thumbs only) if your able to hold transmitter with 3 finger way it’ll provide the best stability
i lost a CR game to watch this video and I don't regret it so far
71mph is honking along, especially for such a low-cost and simple set-up. Be proud!
Sounds absolutely amazing !
"The RC car speed record is 202mph".
Get it done lad, that record is waiting for you.
Didn't expect to learn more about the SSC from this video but I guess I should've seen it coming from the title
0:34 This was the perfect opportunity to explain the opposite ground effect :).
what a cool friendship --- you two are great
Reminds me of all the "wacky" science experiments in the 1970s and 80s. Just the coolest stuff that looked so unreal, and yet was. I guess science and technology makes fun radical jumps ever other decade or so.
This is most interesting! To have it run forward in a stable manner, try having the centre of pressure behind the centre of gravity like a model rocket. To move the centre pressure backwards, have bigger fins behind. To move CG forward, move batteries/motors forward. The further the CP is behind the CG, the more stable it will be in the forward motion but it will be more susceptible to turn into cross winds. The car would be rotating about it's CG so that's where the wheels should be. U'll then have a rocket on wheels which will be inherently stable! For more details check out model rocketry stability by G Harry Stein.
btw, to find out where the CP is approximately, trace out the outline of the vehicle on a card and find the point where it balances.
lol I like the buddy
“You say that like it’s not incredibly fast”
2 feature proposals:
Speed dependent rudder
Differential brakes with a servo pushing on each from wheel.
Nice build 😎💪👌
I know seattle too well, I instantly knew exactly where you were the last few videos.
"didn't explode though"
This is the kind of positivity the world needs!
Nice job Sir! 🏆
Interestingly you have arrived at an almost identical body shape as George Eyston's Thunderbolt Land Speed record car (aside from your horizontal wings).
312mph in 1937. using two V12 aero engines. Bravo to you. 🇬🇧🏆🇺🇲
Looks great. We hope for a future advanced upgrade.
EDF's are cool.
I think I might be
feeling inspired.
There's a few scenes where the whirring sounds like old school sonic speeding up lol
Somewhat looks like Soviet era sea monster ground effect ship which is pretty cool
This is super cool!
These are damn good videos!
It sounds amazing!
Crazy impressive for such a short wheelbase.
Love this build! Longer wheelbase! Give it all the length. Send it!
Pretty fun video! It’s important to note that even cars with serious downforce and lift killing devices still produce lift as they progress. The net force on many racing cars likely remains positive vs negative. As we know the main point is to maintain traction, for both maneuvering and power delivery. A bit different with your ride since its thrust propulsion, but some down force equally distributed on the car could’ve aided in ride stability more so than the fins, which also had to compete with turbulence I bet
With respect, this is only true of salt flats speed record cars.
F1 for example produces roughly 3,000 kg of downforce at 300 km/h these days.
NASCAR is making exactly 1 ton of aerodynamic downforce this year at 200 mph.
The key here is that non max speed cars are engineered to make more downforce as speed increases. This force increases as a square function of speed.
The unbroken sentence "That's all for now bye I smell a hot LiPo" is now in my lexicon.
Dude with a longer wheelbase this thing would scream lol love your videos.
I really enjoy your experiments. Not enough of a challenge to get the car to go fast. Now add the need to have a controller with the proper range, the need to see the car for long enough, or the need for a road that is ass-of-the-world enough to not have a lot of traffic, and still straight and in good enough condition.
This is also the point at which I simply must recommend to watch "The World's Fastest Indian".
Good job steering and keeping it stable. Some of them budget rc buggies only have brass bushes for bearings.
Oh yes - those EDFs definitely need to get into a ram effect water craft with the exhaust ducted to the underside of the wing!
Thought you would get an engineering job. You got so much ingenuity.
You're driving nose down because the ducted fans are tall in relation to the CG of the car. I love this project, cannot wait to see if you keep on this trajectory. Subbed
Also in relation to it's center of pressure, I'm an aeronerd 😂
Ahead of the chassis, round the sides of the body or 'knife edge' them. When it turns the flat sides hit a lot of air and that wants to make it push farther off from straight. Get some UHMW tape to apply to the underside of the nose as a skidplate. It's super tough and slick so it'll slide across the surface instead of getting roughed up and causing slowdowns when the nose hits.
For the pitch down problem, I think, based on the static video and sound, the vehicle is proposing, she has either a small amount of df or lift, and as she comes closer or further to the ground, she keeps stalling aerodynamically, so she makes that typical bouncing movement at around 2-4 Hz. Make some more damped suspension setup, like stiff dampers or friction dampers, also change the tires to something really low profile.
12:54 “it’s like when you’re a little kid you strap a rocket engine to a hotwheel car”
SAY WHAT? LMAO 😂
I never did that when I was a little kid. But now I’m a big kid I’m gonna. Probably end up getting arrested 😂
These unique projects are a blast to watch, awesome job! If you added a thrust tube to the edge, you would probably get a decent improvement to the thrust.
getting flash backs to when you flew the quad from the moving car :D
Reminds me a bit of the Mercedes Benz T80 from 1939. I think you can reduce drag a lot by better encasing the whole underside of the car up to as close as possible to the wheels.
Very cool design! I love the way it looks! Have you tried covering the bottom under the chassis for aero as well?
"thanks for watching bye"
I've just started watching your channel, and when you say that line you sound a lot like Ben from Applied Science.
I love this sort of stuff... Maybe put a pivoted wing on the front and a 5g servo. Maybe if the front and rear wings can hit a sweet spot, the car might float level but not quite flying. Good luck !
71 mph is impressive especially since you took a new approach to fast rc cars
You look like Logic the rappers smart brother. Keep up the good work!!!
Really cool looking forward to version two gonna need a bigger car and more power Baby
I would love to see this pushed to it’s absolute limits!