We probably will at some point when the updates die down and there’s a clearer picture of the release. From what’s been coming out, I’m SO happy to see Jari finally doing right by his fans.
@@forgemastermetal is he though? What about the hundreds of thousands of dollars he's essentially stolen from people only to give them a digital copy? After all that at least hook people up with some physical artwork, some patches and stickers, something. This is almost worse than Blake Judd levels here.
@@odhinn9 Lol stolen? only a digital copy? Complete with each finished song, including isolated tracks for rhythm and melody guitars, bass, vocals, drums, and orchestrations? And remastered versions of existing albums alongside 5 hours of previously unreleased Wintersun material? Jari knows his audience well. I live and breathe music. I would love to have the isolated tracks to some of my favorite artist's and their songs, but most of the time these aren't able to be acquired or have to be isolated through EQ'ing/compression methods, which destroys the quality of the tracks. The fact that there's now another 48 minutes of new music, plus a remastered Forest Seasons, plus 5 hours of demos, PLUS additional upcoming music content is great. I wouldn't be surprised if they remix and remaster Time 1 to fit the new Time 2 production levels as well.
@@odhinn9 Remember when I also said that I'd love if my other favorite artists released isolated tracks? Yeah, this isn't a love affair with Jari. This is me being a fan of music. So, in short, go ahead and crawl back to your sad, unfulfilling patchless life. I'm so tired of this superiority complex because people like something and want to pay for it and listen to it.
I too like the Time related jokes and I'm also frustrated it took so long. However I feel like some of the stuff in this video are more jokes than "serious" points. Duke Nukem was a hot pile of trash and if Time II is a hot pile of trash you would be right. I feel there is a lot of misunderstandings/confusions between entitlement, what people read between the lines and what is actually promised. I understand people expect a hasty release of Time II, but people did get stuff in return for their money. I can't recall Wintersun saying anywhere that "Give us money now, then you will get Time II when it is released", as in purchasing a product called "Time II". We got other things like a new album, remastering of old ones etc. Does that make it a scam, I wouldn't say so. About the Forest Seasons; Yes, it did get produced. However people are complaining that the drums are programmed and the album is a step down from the "love" Time I received. I can't speak to the nitty gritty details about the differences, but it is just things I've seen people complain about on his/wintersun's facebook page.
Definitely good points. I’m debating making a follow up to this video once all the details are finally out on Time II. I’m glad to see Jari is finally doing what he should’ve been doing forever ago.
I think the main issue is Jari being a crazy genius control freak type. I've seen fans in his comments literally offering to build him an insane computer but he hasn't responded. Things HAVE to go his way. It's a double edged sword since this also makes him perhaps one of the best composers alive right now. It might be unwise to assume bad intentions on his part, perhaps there simply are things he doesn't understand and may be too hard-headed to consider. It tends to happen with this type of person. I have the same problem but to a smaller extent and I'm not a public figure like he is (and that might be a good thing). Hopefully as the release of Time II draws nearer, or after it, the whole situation will be cleared up. I certainly hope so since I felt scammed by the Forest Season crowdfunding. I will for sure buy Time II in some way (just The Way of the Fire is the best song I've ever heard) but I'd only support the band via crowfunding or something similar if Jari comes clean, admits his mistakes and clears up the whole thing. It'd also make me respect him as a man again. Appreciate you guys' perspective! Let's hope we can all enjoy the album regardless of all the drama.
Thanks for the dialogue! I think if Jari has all of these hesitations and doesn’t understand these things, personally he has no business accepting money from people for making something this complex. Either way, hopefully Time II will be good.
In the video you speak as if people were/are just giving Wintersun money in form of crowdfunding. It was clear that the the crowdfunding platform was used as an eCommerce platform for selling digital product (Forest Seasons and now Time II). People are buying products, not funding or giving anything. At that point you no longer have a say on how the seller (the band) should use the money. In a scam, people are promised things in exchange for money and nothing is delivered. I am pretty sure that everyone who participated in these digital sales, did receive the goods that the band promised.
I’m not sure you watched the video. I clearly spell out what the fans are getting in exchange. Jari has been dangling “Time II is coming, we need more, here’s a lackluster product” for over a decade. Im happy to see he’s doing what he should’ve been doing years ago, but I find it hilarious he never needed any of this craziness to make Time II. He just proved it, lol. The point is the man is horrible with business and marketing.
@@forgemastermetal Yet he has not asked for money until now when the product's ready. Are you dense? You (assuredly didn't) paid for a complete product back in 2017, and you're (assuredly not) paying for a complete product in 2024. I swear, you people have a severe lack of critical thinking skills.
Great video guys and I share your frustration about Time II - thankfully I never got involved in crowdfunding it! The only album I've waited for longer than this to come out is the second CONTROL DENIED album that was talked about way back in 2001/2? Not sure it'll ever see the light of day either.
I don't think we'll ever hear the second Control Denied album outside of those demos that got released/leaked like 20 years ago. I'm pretty sure in the Death by Metal doc they mention that some issue with the equipment Chuck recorded on made it difficult if not impossible to finish it. @@forgemastermetal
Yeah, that's usually how you get a product is to ...wait for it...PAY for it. What's this "thanks for ur money" shit? Was it supposed to be free? I don't know what these people expected when they bought the Forest package, they got a physical product with a lot of content, and...what else did they expect? The right to decide what Jari can and can't do with the money I guess. The gaul. Can i tell the guy i bought my car from what he can do with the money? Hilarious.
Not the same thing. Jari said, “Give us money so we can build the studio and as a thanks we will send you some files.” They raise hundreds of thousands of euros beyond their expectations, then they never built the studio…. Laughable.
@@JamesScarborough5290 That's not at all what he said. He said preorder this album, and we hope to use the money for creating a new studio. Where in the videos do you people come up with "give us money for the studio and as a thanks here's an album". He never said that. He also said they expected to need 3 campaigns totaling about 750k to actually build it.
as fans to be fair our feeling don't count for shit, how you're feeling on your shitty Monday has zero bearing on how they make music,it will be out when it's out,people need to stop crying about this
but but but ye are😢 as are alot af others who believe that the band should jump when we say jump,bands release albums when they choose to do so not when the Internet world cries about it.
As an outsider looking in (as I only recently discovered Wintersun about 2ish years ago), I both understand the fans frustration and don't understand it at the same time. Waiting for Time II was probably excruciating, but all the hate Jari has received over the first crowdfunding I think makes zero sense. Just to be sure, I went through and watched every single video from TFS campaign. I saw nothing about promising Time II release anywhere soon. The biggest issue with the campaign was just not calling it a preorder for TFS. Also, the idea that TFS was "lackluster" is just shallow I think. For what it was, TFS was a fantastic atmospheric black metal album. Is it their best work? No, clearly not, but there in lies the rub. People bitch and moan about Jari's perfectionist streak, so when he (by his own words) goes from 0-100% on an album in 9 months to show he can produce music fast, people complain because it isn't as good as another album that took far longer to create. Anyways, in the end I think the feelings people have are valid, and if TFS campaign put a bad taste in somebody's mouth, they have every right to stay away. But it makes no sense to be mad about a complete mischaracterization of what actually happened. (btw these are just my feelings in general to comments below, not necessarily what you guys said in the video) The Time package Jari put out is EASILY the best value for music I have ever seen, will be well worth it just to have The Fantasy Metal Project honestly.
I'm looking forward to it, and until it comes out, I have plenty of other shit to listen to. I get why a lot of people are pissed off about the crowdfunding and shit, but, It really doesn't bother me. Now, if it comes out and it sucks, then that's a different story.
@@forgemastermetal, maybe it's my age, I'm 58, and with all the bad shit in the world today, Wintersun taking forever to release an album is not that important. Holy shit I sound like a geezer. FTR, I'm a Gen Xer, not a Boomer!🙂
Man, I didn't realize all this was going on. I haven't really been following Wintersun at all. I just thought it was taking forever for them to do the album. That's some super shady shit.
The first Wintersun album was so good. It was such a breakthrough album and it showed that Jari could write and compose amazing music post-Ensiferum but I’m getting really disappointed and sick of his behavior. Him not promising his fans Time II for a decade and then continuing to pull out and make excuses once it’s announced is scummy behavior.
"sarcasm ahead" Calm down calm down caaaaaalm the f**k down.... Jari really needed the best PC in the world to handle those orchestra arrangements, because he uses EastWest VST's... For those who don't know: EastWest orchestra plugins are known for their high CPU usage and crashes 😅 If he was using Kontakt libraries instead, Time II would be out in 2014.
I appreciate what I've heard from Wintersun, but missed the hype that surfaced during the earlier releases (the mid/late 00s was around the time I got into power metal). I'll certainly welcome a new album, and appreciate your thoughts. I particularly like the point about an artist building a community. Also, hilarious Duke Nukem 3 ref, thanks to for that throwback. If it hasn't already slipped through your ears, check out the new Narzissus album, some A+ black metal to welcome in the new year (a bit avant garde, oh and pretty sure I heard a sax. I think we all can agree, there's not enough sax in metal). I
Glossing over the forest seasons so quickly was smart in order to make it seem like we havent been getting Wintersun content, but The forest seasons does exist and is beyond worthy of far more than a quick gloss over. You guys are self professed musicians and sound engineers and have propped yourselves on a youtube stage to project that self professed knowledge. You therefore should be aware of the corrupt cut throat music industry and the battle musicians with integrity have when under the thumb of the industry. You should be aware of the quirkiness and instability of musicians, especially musicians that create top tier ambitious art. You should be able to watch one video of Jari and understand he is a bit extra. Musicians are weirdos that sometimes create amazing music. For many (my self included) Wintersun have put out amazing work. No gun was was put to heads to give money. I never paid a dime and never will to any bands crowdfund or video game playing streams, but if an album comes out as good as Wintersun albums are, I will buy them simple as. Jari was too vocal on social media for my tastes and did things I would not, but I did not give him extra money and just ignored him, and in return he gave me Wintersun, Time I, the forest seasons (extremely underrated and my absolute favorite) and now time II. You guys made a video complaining about someone that is way above most of us creatively as if you somehow know better than him or would navigate the situation differently if you had all the information and creative brain that he does. You have now generated clicks and revenue off of Wintersun fans from this drama video in a similar vein as you claim Jari also did, so will you now give me the same quality product in return for my attention that Jari has? Or will I only get platitudes about how I clicked on the video or you were just being light hearted? Or just silence? probably silence which is fine as I can just go listen to wintersun albums that you no doubt think you could navigate, mix, and master better than the one that created them. tldr: get off the reddit bandwagon of entitled thinking and enjoy great art when the crazy weirdos that create it grace us with it. Musician youtubers do not speak for non youtuber musicians and are more often than not really bad representations of musicians, and people should be made aware of this congrats on the view and comment
We acknowledged Jari’s talent many times in this video and clearly stated we are Wintersun fans ourselves. This video simply stated facts that are public knowledge and highlighted some of the extremely questionable business decisions of the band. Time II is finally out, and while it’s absolutely clear Jari is a fantastic composer and next level musician; the production would have been much better if Jari hired a professional for mixing and mastering. The drums sound horrendously fake and dominate the mix, the orchestrations are bloated, the vocals are too quiet, and the guitar riffs are masked half of the time. The reason I love Wintersun are the riffs, and with a few exceptions on Time II - I cannot hear the killer riffing most of the time. The solos though? Maaaan those are chefs kiss. The music is clearly amazing, but it’s just…..exhausting to listen to because a professional didn’t mix and master the album. At best - it’s a good album held back by loud and hyper congested production. He certainly had plenty of money to have a professional engineer the final product. Every musician should have a producer and engineer. They’re the band’s secret weapon for capturing the magic and keeping the artist in check. No I don’t think I can do better. I never once claimed this. I’m just an idiot on the internet. Who gives a sh*t what I think. This video made $5.08 on ads. Closer to $3 after taxes. Really rolling in the dough, dude. This is just a dumb hobby at best.
@@forgemastermetal I give a shit what you think obviously, and my response is because of that. I care that musician youtubers are not sticking up for or at least understanding the circumstances that musicians go through and have to deal with. I can see with your reply that we do not see eye to eye about this though as you are framing your criticisms for Time II as somehow relevant or objective reality. This is not the way I would think in regards to other peoples musical creation, sure I would do things different than others and so I do so, but I know the way others do their art is exactly how it is suppose to be to them. This line "Every musician should have a producer and engineer. They’re the band’s secret weapon for capturing the magic and keeping the artist in check." is completely not true and only applies to musicians that want it to apply to them, or to musicians that care more about the masses opinion over their own, maybe you do not realize this and I am putting you in a category you do not belong, I apologize if I am doing that. There is a reason the metal community youtube talking heads are not the ones making the albums they talk about, and it is unfortunate that they are also regurgitating talking points that favor the corrupt industry over the creative underdogs.
7 місяців тому+1
sorry guys, you are wrong.... after taxes its 200k and Amazon data center costs 500mil :D omg.
That was one campaign, and clearly we were being sarcastic for the sake of the discussion. Buying a building and taking out a bank loan to produce an album that was promised (and recorded) nearly two decades ago is beyond dumb. Jari is abysmal on the marketing and business front and so many other bands handle this without the questionable drama.
Just found your channel. Great and interesting content so far, subscribed! About Wintersun, I've loved their music ever since their debut and even longer with Ensiferum. This story has been crazy though and I agree with much of what you guys are saying. They should have released much more music in the meantime and saved Time 2 if there were so many limitations. I am looking forward to the album though, not gonna lie :). Imagine the feeling of disbelief when it's finally out!
Atavistia just delivered so much good music. At a certain point I had to find an alternative to wintersun. I love their songs but the seasons album was kind of weak and I don't support anything on crowdfunding same like early access bullshit. They lose incentive to finish it.
Woulda been right there with you, but Jari's explanation video has made me see things a lot more his way. I just wish he had been more transparent about those things in the last 6+ years rather than now. Time II is very much real, and sounds incredible. I cannot wait!
15:39 While it doesn't take away from the overall point of the video, that math makes about as much sense as Jari's computer budget calculations... 🙂1. Those fees are in GBP. 2. "Maximum track duration 30 minutes", so cut that in half. 3. Above all, it's _per musician_ - I assume he wouldn't be using a one man orchestra.
I'm 100% going to get scammed and have no regrets. Time II is something that I've been living for for the past 13 years and I'm finally going to get it. Like how dare he rob my money for something like that, lol. He scammed my 50€ in 2017 and I never had a quantum of regret there either. TFS is an amazing album and the package has a great value to me.
Good video guys, very informative and comedic but it feels like alot of the dialouge was taken straight from that british dude’s video about the same topic? Can’t remember his name unfortunatley, I apologize if that’s not case
Nice summary. The debut was an avalanche completely changing the landscape. Then the bullshit started and when Time I finally came out it wasn't even better than the debut. And then I just lost interest in the band. They can buy an alien spaceship with that amount of money but still can't put out a record? In decades? Hilarious. One technical remark - can you fix the camera focus once it is focused on your faces? It lost track several times focusing background and then your faces again.
Protest The Hero crowd funded Volition after being dropped by their label. They rewarded their fanbase with an album that is considered one of their best. Reward the fanbase for their patience we understand the music business is hard but shit don’t lie to us
I was thinking the same until they finally revealed the contents of the digital preorder... 5 hours of extra early-wintersun music, remastered?!?! And wallpapers? I'm sold!
I think this did NOT age well. And this deserve a followup report on Wintersun Time II campaign. Aand an apology, for the 'scam' accusation among other lightly said.. stuff. :) So come on guys, if you followed through the campaign and all the statements and responses, the amount of content Jari finished and for new albums amount of work, please adjust your reactions. Cheers
This video was pretty lighthearted and a simple discussion, I don’t think it needs a follow up. I’m glad to see Jari is finally doing right by his fans over a decade later. Regardless of what’s happening with Time II right now - the events leading up to it were shady and open public knowledge that we simply captured here. Psyched for Time II regardless. It’s about TIME 😘
I can't give an opinion on psychological issues or sound engineering, as I'm not an expert. What I can say is that Wintersun's songs make me feel things I can't even explain. That's why I continue to support it and always will. Even though I live in a poor country and earn currency that is worthless. That's just money. Wintersun feeds my atheist soul like few things. I hope from the bottom of my heart that Jari delivers a masterpiece in August and that all fans can feel satisfied, so that everyone can make peace with the band and with themselves. Life is too short and there is no TIME to harbor grudges. And art... only art saves. peace.
Don't allow Jari's artistic capabilities (which no one doubts are incredible) to take advantage of your sensitivity and appreciation for well composed music.
Jari no estuvo satisfecho como quedo su primer álbum, es por esa razón que se remasterizó y quedo con un volumen más alto y limpio. Time 1 también se remasterizó... Jari no quedó satisfecho con la calidad de los albumes.
I laughed so much during the video... It's a way to cope with the loss of my bucks (yeah. I chipped in to the crowdfunding, i know i know... My dumbness chipped in actually lol) but let's hope this works!!!
Sorry but Children of Bodom's "Something Wild" is what changed the game not Wintersun. When Bodom dropped Something Wild in 1997 that was fresh and exciting!
Since there has been false rumors of a third and fourth Nordland album, Imagine if Quorthon of Bathory didn't die and made a mockery of this by making a crowdfunding campaign for Nordland III & IV, raised 500k, and used it to create a Viking raid in Sweden. 😅 but jokes aside I hope Wintersun doesn't become irrelevant after releasing Time II.
Death and The Healing/ Sons of Winter and Stars still jolt and move me when i put it on in my car. Will wait till its sold on a platform though for Time 2
People talking about scam with Wintersun are so annoying and often borderline with harassement. If you are not interested in the band anymore, go away.
There’s no question that the Wintersun saga is one of the strangest stories ever in metal. Raising so much money, not building anything, teasing an album for nearly two decades. Saunas, super computers, wacky UA-cam videos. How can anyone not talk about this hilarity?
@@JamesScarborough5290 He built something... He is doing almost everything alone. But yeah haters gonna hate anyway. And you know if you want to make a studio, they didn't earn that much considering taxes, etc...
Jari is one of the most talented musicians I've ever heard, I don't know what's wrong with him, whether it's laziness or lack of commitment. Anyway I still dream of watching a wintersun live
I just hope it's a good album. Does the megacomputer provide the heat for the sauna? We need to know. Oh yeah that part at the end where you touch on the special digital preorder - yes, totally ridiculous and just makes it worse.
This band changed my life in my teen years. Now I can't even look at their podcast uploads without cringing. They are a great band but the time lapse between each album while recieving immense amount of money from fans is suspicious at best. They are lucky to have such a loyal fanbase, I lost all respect for Jari since he started these crowd campaigns.
This was kinda eye opening for me. I mean I was already mad when I realized I paid for a Jari solo album with programmed drums (with no warning this was the case). But watching this the whole scenario of trying to get 750 000€ in advance to even begin producing more music is just insane. I'm not putting another € in crowd funding, but I still will listen to Time II.
You didn't acknowledge the main issue here: perfectionism, a mental illness that makes an 18-year delay seem insignificant in order to produce a "perfect" product. You should never let a perfectionist hold a position in which he can dictate his own deadlines. There's nothing you can do about it now.
I’d definitely never ever donate to any Jari crowdfunding campaign…. But I do love their albums and if we ever get Time 2 it’ll probably be really good.
Holy shit, I was once aware of what was going on, but I was so repulsed by the hype surrounding the band that I didn't follow it. Yeah, I know, that sounds like an old fart who only likes the first demo of a band. But that's not true. Ok, half of it is, because I'm pretty old. But the amount of money and all the ridiculous excuses are new to me and I can hardly stop laughing. I don't make any money with my music. As is the case with most metal musicians. And I've come to terms with it. But I still release a record every damn year. One year even 2! (Edit says: well, at least since 2018) And I produce them all on a 10 year old PC. With Cubase. Always a complete album in a single project with at least 300 tracks. Does this guy really think that anyone believes what he's saying?
If there's a chance I finally get to hear the studio version of "The Way Of The Fire", he can have all the money I've got. I've been listening to a shitty live recording for a decade and it's still my favorite Wintersun song. I care about this band and the music a lot. The wait may have been very long so far, and I have lost my patience sometimes. I have lost my temper sometimes. But I have never lost my love or my enthusiasm.
Sometimes projects take forever, and if all I've got invested is my personal anticipation, I can't take it that hard. Braindance strung me along year after year after year, "this year we promise" again and again, until finally releasing an album after about ten years, and it was totally worth the wait...but they never asked me for money during that time. I wasn't expected to pay until it was done and available. Jari's been a grifting clown for as long as I've known his name. Talented and skilled, and I even enjoyed Wintersun live about ten years ago, and what he actually puts out is pretty strong. But I'd feel like an absolute moron contributing even one cent to his projects in development. It's like giving your money to a hobo who's shooting up right in front of you with the most boutique heroin in the world.
I like the way you got Arnold Schwarzenegger for Voice over as Jari... Did not exactly know what was going on but your awesome take on this topic only brougt to light another douchebag's acts... "Will Time II see the light of day!? Only time will tell... 😆 Thanks guys for another awesome video and Keep on Rockin' 🤘
Hahaha I've watched so many Ahnuld movies that I can't help but embody him whenever I do a European accent. We appreciate your time and comment as always, Forgemaster!
What if Time 2 digital is actuallt a 1 copy 500000$ NFT, and that's the only way to get "the way of the fire"? No seriously, i've been following this band, the music of course but especually all the statements, on facebook, from their website,... Month after month, year after year came more contradictions. At the beginning, just before the release of time 1 , Jari said EVERYTHING was ready, but an 80 minutes long album was too hard to digest. So he would release time1 and then like, 6 months later the rest. So people could really appreciate the incredible music that was already packed, mixed or whatever. The only scam there was to pay 2 times for the album... Then came all the excuses cause 6 months after, Jari was nowhere to be found. Wintersun (well what remains of it, not sure there are a lot of members remaining) can release what the want, i'm not gonna pay any euro or anything for any indiegogo preorder bullshit.
It's cool to find new bands from UA-cam comment sections, thank you! I really felt the overall atmosphere but everything blends together too much in the mix and it's "echoey". However, I will definitely listen more to Solstice Rider.
LOVE THIS!! Was a big fan of first album, but haven't followed any of this story, so great to hear that I didn't miss anything by not paying attention 😂😂
to be fair, based on the time 2 stuff that is out there, it might turn out to be an actually incredible album, unlike Duke Nukem forever. Not that it excuses all the bs happening around Jari. Hard case of seperating the art from the artist I guess.
@@forgemastermetal yeah, especially considering how it throw's a bad light on crowdfunding. Stuff like patreon has been a legit way of funding your art in all kinds of media while it's still kinda frowned upon in the metal scene. Jari isn't helping with that,lol.
@@Simpaiii time is boring can't listen to it , wintersun was their best album and they will never reproduce it , also taking in the facts people are leaving his band.
This band was one of my favourites. Especially after the first album was released. Now it's one big joke. Jari with the short hair has lost his mind, or maybe it's because of the sauna idk.
I support the first crowfundung bullshit, hoping more albums, one of 5 or 6 on his words, and nothing happen, this time im not going to support that scam.
@@forgemastermetal I know it's cool to hate on Wintersun, but that's gonna be a hard disagree from me, dawg. The best thing the members of Kalmah ever did was contribute to Eternal Tears of Sorrow.
@@forgemastermetal his new studio sauna needs a damn flux capacitor so he can go back in time and stop himself from turning into the biggest c*nt in the metal music industry!
I think he's full of it. He says "we" a lot under the name Wintersun, even though it's just him. He doesn't have a band anymore. Kai left years ago for Nightwish, Jukka followed later, Teemu has had his own projects and teaching job and now plays for Megadeth, Asim got the boot. It's just Jari. Sure they toured some during the years, but they are not a band as I see a band should be. Jari has put out amazing music during his career, but I'm just bored of him and have been for years. I don't have high expectations on Time II..
I'll call bullshit on this claim, Kai, Jukka and Teemu have all posted about Time II being ready in their social media. Whether or not they will have the time (pun intented) to be a part of (possibly) coming live shows, they seem to be invested in Wintersun.
Wintersun should do a collaboration with GRRM. Like he writes a story and lyrics, and they write the music. The most epic thing ever that never happens.
@@ObsidianKnight217 I'm happy I gave up 80% the way through Name of the Wind, which should have really been called, the Amazing Adventure of Gary Stu. Didn't realize Rothfuss has crowdfunded even more than Wintersun to do nothing. And fiction writing is the absolute cheapest art to produce.
I bet Jari enjoys watching people shitting their pants as much as I do. I was hoping for him to troll even more and taking a few more years before releasing anything.
Great video. The whole ‘building the Wintersun HQ with sauna’ thing was utter insanity. Then it was never built anyway after three crowd funding campaigns, with Jari saying he could spend the money any way he liked. Scandalous.
Guys, their debut album Wintersun was the only album they ever made. Time I was the biggest disappointment after not getting job done while waiting 8 years for it. Time I sucked so much. Just let it go already they are stealing your money and time. Power goes only to yourself,
Yeah I know the talking point. Still, I've always thought it's a bit cynical to insinuate a scam. Maybe Jari does actually believe in his reasons. Idk, I know exactly what it is like to be cursed with deeply pathological perfectionism (which apparently he has) so maybe I let my empathy affect my judgement. That trait does make one have flawed reasoning, make irratic decisions, and most of all, quit or go on long hiatus when something goes even slightly awry let alone something major like having a loved one pass away (ie his dad). Anyway, like I said, when Time II gets released, many might feel it was all justified ie not a scam. I guess... TIME will tell! 😀 These puns are never gonna get old are they? Lol
@@forgemastermetal We can't carve on gunwale of a moving boat. The world is changing and so is the technology of mixing music. Back in 2017 Jari himself couldn't know all these changes. By that time maybe he thought well I gonna need a studio to finish the album. but since the technology improved and all the new gears for mixing appeared, he wouldn't need what he originally thought he need to finish the album. That's how I see it. We can't hold the same view or opinion for our entire life. Cuz things change so fast in this world. For example, I couldn't imagine the AI shit can develop this fast nowadays. I thought what happened on AI technology right now may happen in 2035. But it is here already.
Thanks for making this video. Jari treats his fans like idiots and it looks like a lot of them are signing up for the ridiculous Time Package. He could buy a lot good will just by releasing a single version of The Way of the Fire, but it seems like everything has to be paywalled. What a disappointment... Edit. Lmao hey you featured a Jari reply to me. I am honored (my first name is Matthew, Brian is my middle name).
1st album showed major potential but what I’d learned from Jari’s fuckups is if you don’t Deliver on your promises, then don’t be shocked when people call you out for basically lying. I find it very shady with these crowdfunds too while doing this. You’re wasting the people’s time, stealing their money and constantly lying. Jari even with his talents ruined his reputation, don’t be a jari. KING GIZZARD AND THE LIZARD WIZARD AND MANY ONE PERSON PROJECTS RELEASE MULTIPLE ALBUMS EVERY YEAR WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE JARI???
Phenomenal video, you guys absolutely nailed it here (and the faux-Schwarzenegger accent for Jari had me LOL'ing). I think more attention needs to be brought to the fact that the weird "forest seasons" album really wasn't very good, and imo it was probably just throwaway material from the previous albums that they simply recycled into a new half-assed record... this band has been a joke for well over a decade now, it most definitely is *time 2* move on (credit to Brandon foe that brilliant line) 😂
Also, in contrast to what Wintersun and Jari are doing with Time II, the band Replicant was giving a massive deal on their new album on Bandcamp. 1 dollar for the full digital album, 25 bucks for digital+CD+T shirt. That's insane value for money and I supported it immediately. Even if the album isn't as good as their last, that will still be worth it. Fuck you, Jari.
This one aged well. It was never a crowdfunding to begin with either.
We might make a follow up. Glad to see Jari finally starting to make good decisions with his fans.
You should make a followup to this video after watching the video Jari posted on his youtube channel.
We probably will at some point when the updates die down and there’s a clearer picture of the release. From what’s been coming out, I’m SO happy to see Jari finally doing right by his fans.
@@forgemastermetal is he though? What about the hundreds of thousands of dollars he's essentially stolen from people only to give them a digital copy? After all that at least hook people up with some physical artwork, some patches and stickers, something. This is almost worse than Blake Judd levels here.
@@odhinn9 Lol stolen? only a digital copy? Complete with each finished song, including isolated tracks for rhythm and melody guitars, bass, vocals, drums, and orchestrations? And remastered versions of existing albums alongside 5 hours of previously unreleased Wintersun material?
Jari knows his audience well. I live and breathe music. I would love to have the isolated tracks to some of my favorite artist's and their songs, but most of the time these aren't able to be acquired or have to be isolated through EQ'ing/compression methods, which destroys the quality of the tracks.
The fact that there's now another 48 minutes of new music, plus a remastered Forest Seasons, plus 5 hours of demos, PLUS additional upcoming music content is great. I wouldn't be surprised if they remix and remaster Time 1 to fit the new Time 2 production levels as well.
@@Poeticartifacts4 lol blow Jari more
@@odhinn9 Remember when I also said that I'd love if my other favorite artists released isolated tracks? Yeah, this isn't a love affair with Jari. This is me being a fan of music.
So, in short, go ahead and crawl back to your sad, unfulfilling patchless life.
I'm so tired of this superiority complex because people like something and want to pay for it and listen to it.
I too like the Time related jokes and I'm also frustrated it took so long. However I feel like some of the stuff in this video are more jokes than "serious" points. Duke Nukem was a hot pile of trash and if Time II is a hot pile of trash you would be right. I feel there is a lot of misunderstandings/confusions between entitlement, what people read between the lines and what is actually promised. I understand people expect a hasty release of Time II, but people did get stuff in return for their money. I can't recall Wintersun saying anywhere that "Give us money now, then you will get Time II when it is released", as in purchasing a product called "Time II". We got other things like a new album, remastering of old ones etc. Does that make it a scam, I wouldn't say so.
About the Forest Seasons; Yes, it did get produced. However people are complaining that the drums are programmed and the album is a step down from the "love" Time I received. I can't speak to the nitty gritty details about the differences, but it is just things I've seen people complain about on his/wintersun's facebook page.
Definitely good points. I’m debating making a follow up to this video once all the details are finally out on Time II. I’m glad to see Jari is finally doing what he should’ve been doing forever ago.
Follow-up video, please. New Time package looks insane.
We can't even keep up with the insanity lmao
I think the main issue is Jari being a crazy genius control freak type. I've seen fans in his comments literally offering to build him an insane computer but he hasn't responded. Things HAVE to go his way. It's a double edged sword since this also makes him perhaps one of the best composers alive right now.
It might be unwise to assume bad intentions on his part, perhaps there simply are things he doesn't understand and may be too hard-headed to consider. It tends to happen with this type of person. I have the same problem but to a smaller extent and I'm not a public figure like he is (and that might be a good thing).
Hopefully as the release of Time II draws nearer, or after it, the whole situation will be cleared up. I certainly hope so since I felt scammed by the Forest Season crowdfunding. I will for sure buy Time II in some way (just The Way of the Fire is the best song I've ever heard) but I'd only support the band via crowfunding or something similar if Jari comes clean, admits his mistakes and clears up the whole thing. It'd also make me respect him as a man again.
Appreciate you guys' perspective! Let's hope we can all enjoy the album regardless of all the drama.
Thanks for the dialogue! I think if Jari has all of these hesitations and doesn’t understand these things, personally he has no business accepting money from people for making something this complex.
Either way, hopefully Time II will be good.
@@forgemastermetal I hope you hate it.
In the video you speak as if people were/are just giving Wintersun money in form of crowdfunding. It was clear that the the crowdfunding platform was used as an eCommerce platform for selling digital product (Forest Seasons and now Time II). People are buying products, not funding or giving anything. At that point you no longer have a say on how the seller (the band) should use the money. In a scam, people are promised things in exchange for money and nothing is delivered. I am pretty sure that everyone who participated in these digital sales, did receive the goods that the band promised.
I’m not sure you watched the video. I clearly spell out what the fans are getting in exchange. Jari has been dangling “Time II is coming, we need more, here’s a lackluster product” for over a decade.
Im happy to see he’s doing what he should’ve been doing years ago, but I find it hilarious he never needed any of this craziness to make Time II. He just proved it, lol.
The point is the man is horrible with business and marketing.
@@forgemastermetal Yet he has not asked for money until now when the product's ready. Are you dense? You (assuredly didn't) paid for a complete product back in 2017, and you're (assuredly not) paying for a complete product in 2024. I swear, you people have a severe lack of critical thinking skills.
Great video guys and I share your frustration about Time II - thankfully I never got involved in crowdfunding it! The only album I've waited for longer than this to come out is the second CONTROL DENIED album that was talked about way back in 2001/2? Not sure it'll ever see the light of day either.
I forgot that we’re waiting for that Control Denied record
I don't think we'll ever hear the second Control Denied album outside of those demos that got released/leaked like 20 years ago. I'm pretty sure in the Death by Metal doc they mention that some issue with the equipment Chuck recorded on made it difficult if not impossible to finish it. @@forgemastermetal
Yeah, that's usually how you get a product is to ...wait for it...PAY for it. What's this "thanks for ur money" shit? Was it supposed to be free? I don't know what these people expected when they bought the Forest package, they got a physical product with a lot of content, and...what else did they expect? The right to decide what Jari can and can't do with the money I guess. The gaul. Can i tell the guy i bought my car from what he can do with the money? Hilarious.
I don’t think we said it should be free dude. Like we said in the video - talented musician; horrible at business, marketing and PR.
Not the same thing. Jari said, “Give us money so we can build the studio and as a thanks we will send you some files.” They raise hundreds of thousands of euros beyond their expectations, then they never built the studio…. Laughable.
@@JamesScarborough5290 That's not at all what he said. He said preorder this album, and we hope to use the money for creating a new studio. Where in the videos do you people come up with "give us money for the studio and as a thanks here's an album". He never said that. He also said they expected to need 3 campaigns totaling about 750k to actually build it.
You nailed it with the Duke Nukem forever analogy 😂
HAIL TO THE KING BABY
@@forgemastermetalI'm actually meeting Jon St. John this next week at a convention. I expect many Duke lines 😂
as fans to be fair our feeling don't count for shit, how you're feeling on your shitty Monday has zero bearing on how they make music,it will be out when it's out,people need to stop crying about this
I don’t think anyone’s crying dude, lol.
but but but ye are😢 as are alot af others who believe that the band should jump when we say jump,bands release albums when they choose to do so not when the Internet world cries about it.
As an outsider looking in (as I only recently discovered Wintersun about 2ish years ago), I both understand the fans frustration and don't understand it at the same time. Waiting for Time II was probably excruciating, but all the hate Jari has received over the first crowdfunding I think makes zero sense.
Just to be sure, I went through and watched every single video from TFS campaign. I saw nothing about promising Time II release anywhere soon. The biggest issue with the campaign was just not calling it a preorder for TFS. Also, the idea that TFS was "lackluster" is just shallow I think. For what it was, TFS was a fantastic atmospheric black metal album. Is it their best work? No, clearly not, but there in lies the rub. People bitch and moan about Jari's perfectionist streak, so when he (by his own words) goes from 0-100% on an album in 9 months to show he can produce music fast, people complain because it isn't as good as another album that took far longer to create.
Anyways, in the end I think the feelings people have are valid, and if TFS campaign put a bad taste in somebody's mouth, they have every right to stay away. But it makes no sense to be mad about a complete mischaracterization of what actually happened.
(btw these are just my feelings in general to comments below, not necessarily what you guys said in the video)
The Time package Jari put out is EASILY the best value for music I have ever seen, will be well worth it just to have The Fantasy Metal Project honestly.
I'm looking forward to it, and until it comes out, I have plenty of other shit to listen to. I get why a lot of people are pissed off about the crowdfunding and shit, but, It really doesn't bother me. Now, if it comes out and it sucks, then that's a different story.
That's really interesting that you're unphased. What puts you in that headspace?
@@forgemastermetal, maybe it's my age, I'm 58, and with all the bad shit in the world today, Wintersun taking forever to release an album is not that important. Holy shit I sound like a geezer. FTR, I'm a Gen Xer, not a Boomer!🙂
Man, I didn't realize all this was going on. I haven't really been following Wintersun at all. I just thought it was taking forever for them to do the album. That's some super shady shit.
Yeah it is. It’s a shame really because Jari is clearly insanely talented.
The first Wintersun album was so good. It was such a breakthrough album and it showed that Jari could write and compose amazing music post-Ensiferum but I’m getting really disappointed and sick of his behavior. Him not promising his fans Time II for a decade and then continuing to pull out and make excuses once it’s announced is scummy behavior.
Beyond scummy dude. I don’t know how this isn’t investigated.
The debut album is in my top 10 favourite albums of all time! Blows my mind every time I listen to it.
It's crazy good!!
You're absolutely spot on. Look at Insomnium. They work so much harder, & treat their fans with respect & honesty.
Get over your ego Jari.
Insomnium would be one of the biggest melodeath bands ever with that kinda funding
Insomnium makes wonderful music but their albums sound horrible.
"sarcasm ahead"
Calm down calm down caaaaaalm the f**k down.... Jari really needed the best PC in the world to handle those orchestra arrangements, because he uses EastWest VST's...
For those who don't know: EastWest orchestra plugins are known for their high CPU usage and crashes 😅 If he was using Kontakt libraries instead, Time II would be out in 2014.
LMAO
We want a follow up video! We want a follow up video! We want a follow up video! 😂
Workin on it. Wintersun didn’t send out a promo, so we have to wait until the album drops to fully form an opinion.
@@forgemastermetal no problem! I’m excited to hear your thoughts!
I appreciate what I've heard from Wintersun, but missed the hype that surfaced during the earlier releases (the mid/late 00s was around the time I got into power metal). I'll certainly welcome a new album, and appreciate your thoughts. I particularly like the point about an artist building a community. Also, hilarious Duke Nukem 3 ref, thanks to for that throwback. If it hasn't already slipped through your ears, check out the new Narzissus album, some A+ black metal to welcome in the new year (a bit avant garde, oh and pretty sure I heard a sax. I think we all can agree, there's not enough sax in metal). I
We gotta do another sax in metal video
Glossing over the forest seasons so quickly was smart in order to make it seem like we havent been getting Wintersun content, but The forest seasons does exist and is beyond worthy of far more than a quick gloss over. You guys are self professed musicians and sound engineers and have propped yourselves on a youtube stage to project that self professed knowledge. You therefore should be aware of the corrupt cut throat music industry and the battle musicians with integrity have when under the thumb of the industry. You should be aware of the quirkiness and instability of musicians, especially musicians that create top tier ambitious art. You should be able to watch one video of Jari and understand he is a bit extra. Musicians are weirdos that sometimes create amazing music. For many (my self included) Wintersun have put out amazing work. No gun was was put to heads to give money. I never paid a dime and never will to any bands crowdfund or video game playing streams, but if an album comes out as good as Wintersun albums are, I will buy them simple as. Jari was too vocal on social media for my tastes and did things I would not, but I did not give him extra money and just ignored him, and in return he gave me Wintersun, Time I, the forest seasons (extremely underrated and my absolute favorite) and now time II. You guys made a video complaining about someone that is way above most of us creatively as if you somehow know better than him or would navigate the situation differently if you had all the information and creative brain that he does. You have now generated clicks and revenue off of Wintersun fans from this drama video in a similar vein as you claim Jari also did, so will you now give me the same quality product in return for my attention that Jari has? Or will I only get platitudes about how I clicked on the video or you were just being light hearted? Or just silence? probably silence which is fine as I can just go listen to wintersun albums that you no doubt think you could navigate, mix, and master better than the one that created them.
tldr: get off the reddit bandwagon of entitled thinking and enjoy great art when the crazy weirdos that create it grace us with it. Musician youtubers do not speak for non youtuber musicians and are more often than not really bad representations of musicians, and people should be made aware of this
congrats on the view and comment
We acknowledged Jari’s talent many times in this video and clearly stated we are Wintersun fans ourselves. This video simply stated facts that are public knowledge and highlighted some of the extremely questionable business decisions of the band.
Time II is finally out, and while it’s absolutely clear Jari is a fantastic composer and next level musician; the production would have been much better if Jari hired a professional for mixing and mastering. The drums sound horrendously fake and dominate the mix, the orchestrations are bloated, the vocals are too quiet, and the guitar riffs are masked half of the time. The reason I love Wintersun are the riffs, and with a few exceptions on Time II - I cannot hear the killer riffing most of the time. The solos though? Maaaan those are chefs kiss.
The music is clearly amazing, but it’s just…..exhausting to listen to because a professional didn’t mix and master the album. At best - it’s a good album held back by loud and hyper congested production.
He certainly had plenty of money to have a professional engineer the final product. Every musician should have a producer and engineer. They’re the band’s secret weapon for capturing the magic and keeping the artist in check.
No I don’t think I can do better. I never once claimed this. I’m just an idiot on the internet. Who gives a sh*t what I think.
This video made $5.08 on ads. Closer to $3 after taxes. Really rolling in the dough, dude. This is just a dumb hobby at best.
@@forgemastermetal I give a shit what you think obviously, and my response is because of that. I care that musician youtubers are not sticking up for or at least understanding the circumstances that musicians go through and have to deal with. I can see with your reply that we do not see eye to eye about this though as you are framing your criticisms for Time II as somehow relevant or objective reality. This is not the way I would think in regards to other peoples musical creation, sure I would do things different than others and so I do so, but I know the way others do their art is exactly how it is suppose to be to them. This line "Every musician should have a producer and engineer. They’re the band’s secret weapon for capturing the magic and keeping the artist in check." is completely not true and only applies to musicians that want it to apply to them, or to musicians that care more about the masses opinion over their own, maybe you do not realize this and I am putting you in a category you do not belong, I apologize if I am doing that. There is a reason the metal community youtube talking heads are not the ones making the albums they talk about, and it is unfortunate that they are also regurgitating talking points that favor the corrupt industry over the creative underdogs.
sorry guys, you are wrong.... after taxes its 200k and Amazon data center costs 500mil :D omg.
That was one campaign, and clearly we were being sarcastic for the sake of the discussion.
Buying a building and taking out a bank loan to produce an album that was promised (and recorded) nearly two decades ago is beyond dumb. Jari is abysmal on the marketing and business front and so many other bands handle this without the questionable drama.
Just found your channel. Great and interesting content so far, subscribed! About Wintersun, I've loved their music ever since their debut and even longer with Ensiferum. This story has been crazy though and I agree with much of what you guys are saying. They should have released much more music in the meantime and saved Time 2 if there were so many limitations. I am looking forward to the album though, not gonna lie :). Imagine the feeling of disbelief when it's finally out!
I don't know if there are any Song of Ice and Fire fans here, but I'm thinking "Winds of Wintersun!" lmao
Who is gonna release new stuff first: George RR Martin or Jari??
Atavistia just delivered so much good music. At a certain point I had to find an alternative to wintersun. I love their songs but the seasons album was kind of weak and I don't support anything on crowdfunding same like early access bullshit. They lose incentive to finish it.
Woulda been right there with you, but Jari's explanation video has made me see things a lot more his way. I just wish he had been more transparent about those things in the last 6+ years rather than now. Time II is very much real, and sounds incredible. I cannot wait!
We made this before his explanation video. It’s great to see him finally doing what he should’ve done years ago.
15:39 While it doesn't take away from the overall point of the video, that math makes about as much sense as Jari's computer budget calculations... 🙂1. Those fees are in GBP. 2. "Maximum track duration 30 minutes", so cut that in half. 3. Above all, it's _per musician_ - I assume he wouldn't be using a one man orchestra.
Good catch!
We need you as our numbers consultant next time. Numbers numbers numbers.
I'm 100% going to get scammed and have no regrets. Time II is something that I've been living for for the past 13 years and I'm finally going to get it. Like how dare he rob my money for something like that, lol.
He scammed my 50€ in 2017 and I never had a quantum of regret there either. TFS is an amazing album and the package has a great value to me.
I’m glad you’re finally going to get it
Good video guys, very informative and comedic but it feels like alot of the dialouge was taken straight from that british dude’s video about the same topic? Can’t remember his name unfortunatley, I apologize if that’s not case
Metal Health? I love that video he made last year. We covered some similar history in our research so I’m not surprised there’s some overlap.
Man I don’t get it. The first album was great. Second was pretty boring and the last one had one good song(forest that weeps.)
It’s a pretty clear decline, but it’s still good. I’m HOPING Time 2 is good, but I’m very skeptical
Nice summary. The debut was an avalanche completely changing the landscape. Then the bullshit started and when Time I finally came out it wasn't even better than the debut. And then I just lost interest in the band. They can buy an alien spaceship with that amount of money but still can't put out a record? In decades? Hilarious. One technical remark - can you fix the camera focus once it is focused on your faces? It lost track several times focusing background and then your faces again.
Yeah. Dumb thing on our end the autofocus was on. Hopefully it didn’t ruin the video for you too much.
In order to have a proper true sound of Wintersun, they have to produce this album in the sauna...
Things age well with TIME, right? Isn’t that how it works? 😜
@@forgemastermetal normally it works for whiskey or similar, in his case he is just getting worse as time passes by...
Protest The Hero crowd funded Volition after being dropped by their label. They rewarded their fanbase with an album that is considered one of their best. Reward the fanbase for their patience we understand the music business is hard but shit don’t lie to us
This is a great example of how to do it.
@@forgemastermetal Ne Obliviscaris did to and because of that paid for their US Tour for Citadel
Why is this video still up
I’m not taking it down just because Jari finally did the right thing years later.
The digital edition "bonuses" sound like dial-up era band website stuff. "Ooh!! Wallpapers!!"
CANT WAIT FOR MY “MY COMPUTER” ICON TO BE A BIG WINTERSUN LOGO
I was thinking the same until they finally revealed the contents of the digital preorder... 5 hours of extra early-wintersun music, remastered?!?! And wallpapers? I'm sold!
I think this did NOT age well. And this deserve a followup report on Wintersun Time II campaign. Aand an apology, for the 'scam' accusation among other lightly said.. stuff. :) So come on guys, if you followed through the campaign and all the statements and responses, the amount of content Jari finished and for new albums amount of work, please adjust your reactions. Cheers
This video was pretty lighthearted and a simple discussion, I don’t think it needs a follow up. I’m glad to see Jari is finally doing right by his fans over a decade later.
Regardless of what’s happening with Time II right now - the events leading up to it were shady and open public knowledge that we simply captured here.
Psyched for Time II regardless. It’s about TIME 😘
I can't give an opinion on psychological issues or sound engineering, as I'm not an expert. What I can say is that Wintersun's songs make me feel things I can't even explain. That's why I continue to support it and always will. Even though I live in a poor country and earn currency that is worthless. That's just money. Wintersun feeds my atheist soul like few things. I hope from the bottom of my heart that Jari delivers a masterpiece in August and that all fans can feel satisfied, so that everyone can make peace with the band and with themselves. Life is too short and there is no TIME to harbor grudges. And art... only art saves. peace.
This is such a lovely sentiment, thank you for sharing. 💚
Don't allow Jari's artistic capabilities (which no one doubts are incredible) to take advantage of your sensitivity and appreciation for well composed music.
Jari no estuvo satisfecho como quedo su primer álbum, es por esa razón que se remasterizó y quedo con un volumen más alto y limpio. Time 1 también se remasterizó... Jari no quedó satisfecho con la calidad de los albumes.
I laughed so much during the video... It's a way to cope with the loss of my bucks (yeah. I chipped in to the crowdfunding, i know i know... My dumbness chipped in actually lol) but let's hope this works!!!
This was a ton of fun to make. Thanks for laughing!
I chipped in for the first crowd funding campaign. I'm a bit bummed Time 2 never came out but the rewards in the campaign were worth the cost.
Sorry but Children of Bodom's "Something Wild" is what changed the game not Wintersun. When Bodom dropped Something Wild in 1997 that was fresh and exciting!
It doesn’t really matter dude, both were significant in the genre taking hold
@@forgemastermetal RIP In Alexi!
Since there has been false rumors of a third and fourth Nordland album, Imagine if Quorthon of Bathory didn't die and made a mockery of this by making a crowdfunding campaign for Nordland III & IV, raised 500k, and used it to create a Viking raid in Sweden. 😅
but jokes aside I hope Wintersun doesn't become irrelevant after releasing Time II.
Death and The Healing/ Sons of Winter and Stars still jolt and move me when i put it on in my car. Will wait till its sold on a platform though for Time 2
That's totally fair.
Don't worry, Jerry will publish the tracklist by 2029.
lol, Jerry
@@forgemastermetal lol auto correct
People talking about scam with Wintersun are so annoying and often borderline with harassement. If you are not interested in the band anymore, go away.
You clicked the video dude. That’s on you.
There’s no question that the Wintersun saga is one of the strangest stories ever in metal. Raising so much money, not building anything, teasing an album for nearly two decades. Saunas, super computers, wacky UA-cam videos. How can anyone not talk about this hilarity?
@@JamesScarborough5290 He built something... He is doing almost everything alone. But yeah haters gonna hate anyway. And you know if you want to make a studio, they didn't earn that much considering taxes, etc...
@@clem_chret he built tax deductions into his campaign goals.
Sounds like if Jari would tell you jump from a bridge and you'd do it just simple 'cause he's Jari...
Jari is one of the most talented musicians I've ever heard, I don't know what's wrong with him, whether it's laziness or lack of commitment. Anyway I still dream of watching a wintersun live
Totally agreed! The dude is super talented.
Plot Twist... there is no Jari, it's Blake Judd in disguise.
lol that would be something
😂
I just hope it's a good album. Does the megacomputer provide the heat for the sauna? We need to know. Oh yeah that part at the end where you touch on the special digital preorder - yes, totally ridiculous and just makes it worse.
Lmao yeah they're definitely connected
This band changed my life in my teen years. Now I can't even look at their podcast uploads without cringing. They are a great band but the time lapse between each album while recieving immense amount of money from fans is suspicious at best. They are lucky to have such a loyal fanbase, I lost all respect for Jari since he started these crowd campaigns.
How about Inthraced? I wish they had more stuff.
This was kinda eye opening for me. I mean I was already mad when I realized I paid for a Jari solo album with programmed drums (with no warning this was the case). But watching this the whole scenario of trying to get 750 000€ in advance to even begin producing more music is just insane. I'm not putting another € in crowd funding, but I still will listen to Time II.
It's wild how much money he's just pissing away.
I'm sorry. Seventeen years? How do you figure that one?
Time II was recorded in May 2006 alongside Time I.
@@forgemastermetal My understanding is that some of the songs were written, and parts were recorded. Not the whole album.
"It's done! Let's now do a second crowdfunding campaign" has to be the funniest collection of words from this band
Lmao seriously. And to backpedal it into this weird NFT like thing was even more strange
@@forgemastermetal ikr!? Like THAT'll get people excited or something haha
Edit out all the good parts I would too they think your a bot
@@Impaled_Onion-thatsmine thank you? I think
You didn't acknowledge the main issue here: perfectionism, a mental illness that makes an 18-year delay seem insignificant in order to produce a "perfect" product. You should never let a perfectionist hold a position in which he can dictate his own deadlines. There's nothing you can do about it now.
Thanks
Time ll check out the new album!! 😎
Sure is! Ill be spinning it all weekend!
I’d definitely never ever donate to any Jari crowdfunding campaign…. But I do love their albums and if we ever get Time 2 it’ll probably be really good.
Let’s hope!
Holy shit, I was once aware of what was going on, but I was so repulsed by the hype surrounding the band that I didn't follow it. Yeah, I know, that sounds like an old fart who only likes the first demo of a band. But that's not true. Ok, half of it is, because I'm pretty old.
But the amount of money and all the ridiculous excuses are new to me and I can hardly stop laughing.
I don't make any money with my music. As is the case with most metal musicians. And I've come to terms with it. But I still release a record every damn year. One year even 2! (Edit says: well, at least since 2018) And I produce them all on a 10 year old PC. With Cubase. Always a complete album in a single project with at least 300 tracks. Does this guy really think that anyone believes what he's saying?
Oh my God I haven't thought about Cubase in ages!!! Thanks for sharing your story, Forgemate.
I use Cubase since more than 20 years. It works perfectly for me. 😅
If there's a chance I finally get to hear the studio version of "The Way Of The Fire", he can have all the money I've got. I've been listening to a shitty live recording for a decade and it's still my favorite Wintersun song.
I care about this band and the music a lot. The wait may have been very long so far, and I have lost my patience sometimes. I have lost my temper sometimes. But I have never lost my love or my enthusiasm.
I’m so glad to hear that bud
Jari = George R R Martin of Metal...
GRRM didn’t crowdfund and not deliver tho.
Sometimes projects take forever, and if all I've got invested is my personal anticipation, I can't take it that hard. Braindance strung me along year after year after year, "this year we promise" again and again, until finally releasing an album after about ten years, and it was totally worth the wait...but they never asked me for money during that time. I wasn't expected to pay until it was done and available. Jari's been a grifting clown for as long as I've known his name. Talented and skilled, and I even enjoyed Wintersun live about ten years ago, and what he actually puts out is pretty strong. But I'd feel like an absolute moron contributing even one cent to his projects in development. It's like giving your money to a hobo who's shooting up right in front of you with the most boutique heroin in the world.
Yeah the talking about it that much definitely calls it into question
Hey! Jari needs a new car, house...wake up! No one is paying for computers...
"Full time band"
Also time is an illusion
lol nice
If you want a good melodeath band with symphonic elements, check out the French band Aephanemer.
Thanks for the suggestion!!
They are good
Yeah Aephanemer is awesome. They are super cool and nice people too.
Checked it out and it's alright, kinda sounds like a mix of Ensiferum and Equilibrium. Nowhere near Wintersun level though, imo.
Theyre good but not even a 4 on a scale of 10 in Jari universe. You cant compare aephenamer with Wintersun . Thats non sense
I like the way you got Arnold Schwarzenegger for Voice over as Jari... Did not exactly know what was going on but your awesome take on this topic only brougt to light another douchebag's acts... "Will Time II see the light of day!? Only time will tell... 😆 Thanks guys for another awesome video and Keep on Rockin' 🤘
Hahaha I've watched so many Ahnuld movies that I can't help but embody him whenever I do a European accent. We appreciate your time and comment as always, Forgemaster!
You are most welcome and Keep on Rockin'🤘🤘@forgemastermetal
time 2 just came out and ... idk, is really badly mixed imo.
100% agree. I’m working on a follow up video to this.
Have never listened to wintersun before. Can confirm it rips
Sure does!
What if Time 2 digital is actuallt a 1 copy 500000$ NFT, and that's the only way to get "the way of the fire"?
No seriously, i've been following this band, the music of course but especually all the statements, on facebook, from their website,...
Month after month, year after year came more contradictions.
At the beginning, just before the release of time 1 , Jari said EVERYTHING was ready, but an 80 minutes long album was too hard to digest. So he would release time1 and then like, 6 months later the rest. So people could really appreciate the incredible music that was already packed, mixed or whatever. The only scam there was to pay 2 times for the album...
Then came all the excuses cause 6 months after, Jari was nowhere to be found.
Wintersun (well what remains of it, not sure there are a lot of members remaining) can release what the want, i'm not gonna pay any euro or anything for any indiegogo preorder bullshit.
It’s SO freaking shady dude. I do not understand why anyone supports this guy
There are other bands out there now. You guys ever heard of Solstice Rider?
No! Where should I start
Check out the Solstice Rider album Suffer to Glory
It's cool to find new bands from UA-cam comment sections, thank you! I really felt the overall atmosphere but everything blends together too much in the mix and it's "echoey". However, I will definitely listen more to Solstice Rider.
@@AlthenasGuard omg thanks for the recommendation, I just checked them and I don’t know how they aren’t more recognized!!!
Thanks heaps bro for the recommendation, Legend!
LOVE THIS!! Was a big fan of first album, but haven't followed any of this story, so great to hear that I didn't miss anything by not paying attention 😂😂
The best thing that should happen is Jari gives every single crowdfunder to date a copy of Time II.
to be fair, based on the time 2 stuff that is out there, it might turn out to be an actually incredible album, unlike Duke Nukem forever.
Not that it excuses all the bs happening around Jari. Hard case of seperating the art from the artist I guess.
I sincerely hope it is incredible. Jari has amazing talent. The biz side tho, eeesh.
@@forgemastermetal yeah, especially considering how it throw's a bad light on crowdfunding. Stuff like patreon has been a legit way of funding your art in all kinds of media while it's still kinda frowned upon in the metal scene. Jari isn't helping with that,lol.
@@Simpaiii time is boring can't listen to it , wintersun was their best album and they will never reproduce it , also taking in the facts people are leaving his band.
Who in the absolute F*** needs 200 tracks in one song? WHO???!!!
Wintersauna
Sons of winter and stars has 1200 tracks
It’s the type of music I would enjoy listening to larping in some sort of medieval festival or something, but damn 500k wtf? 😂
This band was one of my favourites. Especially after the first album was released. Now it's one big joke. Jari with the short hair has lost his mind, or maybe it's because of the sauna idk.
The Wintersauna
@@forgemastermetal 🤣🤣🤣
Love the debut album, sucks seeing the year of scams of last year and especially this year, Scam II dumptrain.
The scamtrain
I support the first crowfundung bullshit, hoping more albums, one of 5 or 6 on his words, and nothing happen, this time im not going to support that scam.
Haters gonna hate, ainters gonna aint
Which one are you?
Guys, good things take... wait for it...time.
Good things come to those who wait….for nearly 2 decades lol
Kalmah was a thing back then. I was able to see Wintersun live 2x.
Kalmah > Wintersun
@@forgemastermetal agreed.
@@forgemastermetal I know it's cool to hate on Wintersun, but that's gonna be a hard disagree from me, dawg. The best thing the members of Kalmah ever did was contribute to Eternal Tears of Sorrow.
He got a bunch of suckers to buy him a home etc.
Time II is amazing
It’s good
This whole video got me feeling old as hell honestly 🪦
Wow , imagine how much money King Gizzard could make if the fans paid for all the albums they put out
It would probably be the same output, those guys are nuts with their work ethic
Well im just enjoy wintersun....its my fafourite band....and im not stupid to give my money then be salty...dont whine
You’re allowed to do that. I’m not whining. I’m calling bullshit on some shady stuff. There’s a difference.
He created a new genre called Ego Metal!
Hahahaha!
@@forgemastermetal his new studio sauna needs a damn flux capacitor so he can go back in time and stop himself from turning into the biggest c*nt in the metal music industry!
I think he's full of it. He says "we" a lot under the name Wintersun, even though it's just him. He doesn't have a band anymore. Kai left years ago for Nightwish, Jukka followed later, Teemu has had his own projects and teaching job and now plays for Megadeth, Asim got the boot. It's just Jari. Sure they toured some during the years, but they are not a band as I see a band should be. Jari has put out amazing music during his career, but I'm just bored of him and have been for years. I don't have high expectations on Time II..
And that’s totally fair you feel that way man. It sucks because what this band COULD be is so shamefully tarnished.
I'll call bullshit on this claim, Kai, Jukka and Teemu have all posted about Time II being ready in their social media. Whether or not they will have the time (pun intented) to be a part of (possibly) coming live shows, they seem to be invested in Wintersun.
Wintersun should do a collaboration with GRRM.
Like he writes a story and lyrics, and they write the music.
The most epic thing ever that never happens.
Dude great idea haha
@@ObsidianKnight217 I'm happy I gave up 80% the way through Name of the Wind, which should have really been called, the Amazing Adventure of Gary Stu.
Didn't realize Rothfuss has crowdfunded even more than Wintersun to do nothing. And fiction writing is the absolute cheapest art to produce.
I bet Jari enjoys watching people shitting their pants as much as I do. I was hoping for him to troll even more and taking a few more years before releasing anything.
Man that would be epic if he did that lmao
Great video. The whole ‘building the Wintersun HQ with sauna’ thing was utter insanity. Then it was never built anyway after three crowd funding campaigns, with Jari saying he could spend the money any way he liked. Scandalous.
The fans are still defending him too, lol.
well well well. its not a scam after all
Yep, and that’s awesome
We need Coffeezilla on this case :D
lol 😜
Wintersun gives big The Name of the Wind/Kingkiller Chronicles energy. iykyk
Guys, their debut album Wintersun was the only album they ever made. Time I was the biggest disappointment after not getting job done while waiting 8 years for it. Time I sucked so much. Just let it go already they are stealing your money and time. Power goes only to yourself,
While not even as close to the debut, I liked Time I
Oof... this vid won't age well 😖😖
It’s aging fine lol
Well maybe, we'll see how Time II does when it's released ay?
Hope it does well! Big sticking point though is Jari never needed the new studio to finish the album in the first place. 😜
Yeah I know the talking point. Still, I've always thought it's a bit cynical to insinuate a scam. Maybe Jari does actually believe in his reasons. Idk, I know exactly what it is like to be cursed with deeply pathological perfectionism (which apparently he has) so maybe I let my empathy affect my judgement. That trait does make one have flawed reasoning, make irratic decisions, and most of all, quit or go on long hiatus when something goes even slightly awry let alone something major like having a loved one pass away (ie his dad).
Anyway, like I said, when Time II gets released, many might feel it was all justified ie not a scam. I guess... TIME will tell! 😀 These puns are never gonna get old are they? Lol
@@forgemastermetal We can't carve on gunwale of a moving boat. The world is changing and so is the technology of mixing music. Back in 2017 Jari himself couldn't know all these changes. By that time maybe he thought well I gonna need a studio to finish the album. but since the technology improved and all the new gears for mixing appeared, he wouldn't need what he originally thought he need to finish the album. That's how I see it. We can't hold the same view or opinion for our entire life. Cuz things change so fast in this world. For example, I couldn't imagine the AI shit can develop this fast nowadays. I thought what happened on AI technology right now may happen in 2035. But it is here already.
Jari wanted a new computer. Great artist but a bad gold digger. Bad Jari. 🤨
Must be quite the computer lol
By the time they release Time 2, King Gizzard will have 100 albums.
Such a killer band and example of a great band able to commit to output for their diehard fans
Thanks for making this video. Jari treats his fans like idiots and it looks like a lot of them are signing up for the ridiculous Time Package. He could buy a lot good will just by releasing a single version of The Way of the Fire, but it seems like everything has to be paywalled. What a disappointment...
Edit. Lmao hey you featured a Jari reply to me. I am honored (my first name is Matthew, Brian is my middle name).
lol that’s awesome you ended up in the video. Your frustration is warranted!
Time II good
1st album showed major potential but what I’d learned from Jari’s fuckups is if you don’t Deliver on your promises, then don’t be shocked when people call you out for basically lying. I find it very shady with these crowdfunds too while doing this. You’re wasting the people’s time, stealing their money and constantly lying. Jari even with his talents ruined his reputation, don’t be a jari. KING GIZZARD AND THE LIZARD WIZARD AND MANY ONE PERSON PROJECTS RELEASE MULTIPLE ALBUMS EVERY YEAR WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE JARI???
Hard agree. AND to top it off, he’s rude to his fans who ask about it
Phenomenal video, you guys absolutely nailed it here (and the faux-Schwarzenegger accent for Jari had me LOL'ing). I think more attention needs to be brought to the fact that the weird "forest seasons" album really wasn't very good, and imo it was probably just throwaway material from the previous albums that they simply recycled into a new half-assed record... this band has been a joke for well over a decade now, it most definitely is *time 2* move on (credit to Brandon foe that brilliant line) 😂
Thanks man. Forest of Seasons really did feel like an after thought. I can’t remember a single memorable riff or song from it tbh.
Also, in contrast to what Wintersun and Jari are doing with Time II, the band Replicant was giving a massive deal on their new album on Bandcamp. 1 dollar for the full digital album, 25 bucks for digital+CD+T shirt. That's insane value for money and I supported it immediately. Even if the album isn't as good as their last, that will still be worth it.
Fuck you, Jari.
You’ve every right to be angry about it especially with fantastic metal bands GRINDING and putting out better content who actually love their fans
Is no one here checking their fb page?
I don’t think you watched the video my dude
Whoa! He got half a million dollars fan funded?!
It’s INSANE dude
No, just 200k