Why Do Sonic Game Opinions Always Change?
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- In this video I talk about why Sonic fans always seem to change their opinions.
More Information Below
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Links:
Twitter: / matthasnocuts
My channel to subscribe: ua-cam.com/channels/A8B.html...
Discord server: / discord
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Credits:
Outro Music: • Star Light Zone 70's S...
Sonic Heroes, Shadow The Hedgehog, and Sonic Adventure Footage:@Anon7906
Sonic Colors, Sonic & The Secret Rings, and Sonic & Black Knight Footage: @FCPlaythroughs
I Wonder Sonic remix: • Kanye West: I Wonder -...
Thumbnail art: @DDoe6237
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Timestamps:
Intro: (0:00)
Sonic Games Change With Age: (1:40)
Sonic Games Suffer From Recency Bias: (3:58)
Are Sonic Games Only Good Because Of Ambition?: (13:41)
Conclusion: (15:36)
Outro: (16:31)
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Hello, I make content on various types of video games! My favorite franchises are Sonic and Mario, as you can tell, I love platformers! If you like to watch reviews, video essays, or discussions about video games, I highly recommend you stick with me because we do a lot of that here! Enjoy your stay!
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Software used:
Video editing software: Premiere Pro
Graphic design: Photoshop cs6
Screen recorder: Elgato/obs/other options
Microphone: Blue yeti
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#SonicTheHedgehog #SEGA #sonicfrontiers - Ігри
I used to like this video a couple hours ago when it was uploaded, but then I realized there were better videos and this one hasn’t aged well so I decided it wasn’t good. A few minutes ago I decided to revisit it out of nostalgia and realized it was actually an underrated masterpiece. Good job.
Haha clever
This comment just shows your ignorance, this video is the worst video they have ever made, you have terrible taste. go back and watch good videos like this one.
Because you're like 9 and haven't watched any other Sonic video
@@AkameGaKillfan777 his joke was funnier than yours
@@theinkticianI used to like this joke a couple hours ago when it was commented, but then I realized there were better jokes and this one hasn’t aged well so I decided it wasn’t good. A few minutes ago I decided to revisit it out of nostalgia and realized it was actually an underrated masterpiece. Good job.
I think you're forgotting that some people always had certain opinions, but they didn't have a voice in the community to speak out on it before. Different age groups of Sonic fans come and go, so what is considered "liked" and "hated" shifts as time goes on. The bashing on the Adventure games online in the early 2010s was the result of Classic Sonic fans becoming content creators, and sharing their opinions, and these are the people that saw Colors as a return to form. When people like me started making content, we started praising what we liked (Adventure Era, Unleashed, 06) and putting down things we didn't like (Colors).
It's crazy that a lot of games in the "dark age" of sonic are now considered good games. Goes to show that once a part of a fanbase has grown up their now able to voice their own opinions and change how a game is viewed.
fr, colors was always bad
@@TailsHub7No. colors was always good.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166Colours was always good. People are always bad.
Colors is extremely horrible i just picked it up for ps4 and bruh hell no..... Glad I got it for $20 instead of the $40 for the digital version..... Which is highly confusing 💁🏾♂️. Colors ultimate is broken still.... No updates to make it better either oh and the cutscenes.......... COMPLETE JOKE
No matter what people’s opinions are on Colors, Unleashed or Frontiers, I will always consider all three of them to be awesome games that have had a huge impact on me
Frontiers I like because it references the whole series. Until then, it was always up in the air whether or not anything was considered canon. It's almost like they're paying attention now. lol
@@macuser7048 unleashed project is best version of that game
@@dreamsdeep1076 yeah because werehog = bad apparently, no it's a matter of taste the werehog is good objectively
@@gokublack9724 no become it doesn’t feel or play like Sonic. When I play a Sonic game I want to speed around. Werehog did not do it for me. It wasn’t bad but not good either. Even on its own the game actually ruins your rank by pulling off combos. I got S ranks on all werehog stages by just using the most basic combo you get in the beginning of the game. Other than the spinning drill attack which was useful against groups of enemies. Using anything else prevented me from getting the best rank in game. Werehog was afterthought. They should have made the werehog just a story element or make the gameplay of werehog that still leans towards speed by borrowing adventure formula on movement
@@dreamsdeep1076by that logic you should hate the adventure games because for the majority of the game you don't play as sonic and don't go fast. It's called 'having variety' which many games have so you don't feel like your doing the same monotonous task for the entire game. And when that other type of gameplay style is as fleshed out as the werehog was, it just seems like people were being ungrateful for the time and effort that the developers put in to create a completely new and creative gameplay style that controlled as well as a devil may cry game. The only issue I have with the werehog is a lack of a drop-shadow as it can make some platforming very difficult
Honestly, I feel like Sonic Team in general sufferes from experimenting. It's a cool idea, but nothing ever gets enough time to be fully realised. It's usually long after a game releases that everyone gets the realisation that there's potential in that experiment.
Experiments can work if they have time to flesh them out. I'm all for new ideas. By all means, bring it.
@@macuser7048 I love new ideas. I just wish Sonic Team had time to test and refine everything.
It's likely because pracitcally every sonic game from 06 and onward have been rushed
@@macuser7048 oh, and personnel. Apparently, they have 400 people on the team, but only 60 worked on Frontiers because SEGA wanted the rest to work on other SEGA titles like Super Monkey Ball.
So... r.i.p. having a decently sized dev team I guess
@@crestofhonor2349 Yeah, SEGA needs to let Sonic Team get organised. Otherwise, it's gonna be a cycle that's fun for virtually nobody.
A games legacy can affect its reception so much. Colors is a big example of that. It's comedy was seen as a positive thing at first but after later games went hard in that direction, it was later seen as a bad thing
But future games quality shouldn’t effect your experience in past games. That’s stupid. I see videos of people calling BOTW bad because of TOTK
Colors was criticised for the childish even back then. Lost World and Forces just opened people’s eyes to the problem.
@@rayvenkman2087 not true. I watch a lot of reputable videos of colors by its original release and people praise colors for being more light1hearyed
@@dreamsdeep1076 Different circumstances though because the majority of Zelda fans actually still like the switch games. Sonic is just a franchise that got impacted from feedback being heard but bad execution over time.
@@rayvenkman2087 well it was made so kids could get a better understanding of Sonic. Also the classic Sonic games were lighthearted as well.
That shot at Sonic Heroes towards the end.
Come on, bro, LMAO.
(good video as always)
I think the biggest problem that people have with Colors, is it's impact on the tone of the franchise. Since Colors released, it was a huge sucess, and obviously they would want to replicate what people liked about Colors, including the lighthearted tone. (Even thought that wasn't really Color's fault)
Awesome video!!
It’s not colors fault tho. Technically it all started in Sonic free riders
Orbot and Cubot, the smiling Egg Pawns from Heroes getting reused over and over again as Eggman's only robot minions... UGH. Sonic's constant 4th wall breaking jokes... Eggman being a total ham.... Tails being unhelpful instead of a super genius.... Don't get me started with how badly they ruined poor Knuckles. I'm glad the movie restored his honor.
@@macuser7048 Orbot and Cubot are based to me. So all of your other opinions are invalid /jk
@@macuser7048 How did they ruined Knuckles? He was always a clueless idiot.
The problem I have is it's 2d I want 3d shit and 2d should just be for classic games
"No opinion is objectively wrong....Unless if you like Sonic Heroes"
BRUHHHHHH
There’s a pattern here. Was the game that came before good? Then this games bad. If the game that came before was bad, this game is more likely to receive positivity.
First time I played Unleashed I thought "This is the literal best sonic game ever made"
Imagine my confusion to find out people hated it
And now people go "Perhaps I treated you too harshly" like are y'all Thanos?!
Dude that is when I stopped caring any ones on opinion on games, thought me a life lesson, it’s like people where being racist to Sonic
I really don't get it. Why do ppl like unleashed? I seriously find it to be the worst sonic game. The story was stupid, the speedy sections were uncontrollable, and the werehog stages were just bad, generic, hack n slash gameplay with the most basic platforming. But hey, maybe it's nostalgia for why ppl are starting to like it. It was literally the game that killed all hope in sonic being good again. But hey, if I was 8, maybe I would have liked it
@@mania4270ust admit that you sucked at it. You're probably one of those SA2 fanboys who keep whining for a remake or something
Fans have actually always liked it, they just didn't have their voices heard over the all the critics.
@@SMD965OFFICIAL Wow, you couldn't refute a single one of his arguments
Edit: oh look at that, you either blocked me or deleted your reply which reeked of insecurity, how pathetic
As a Black Knight fan that 5 Star ranked every stage and maxed out my stats in just a Month, all I can say to Matt is Skill Issue.
oh dam in black goat what do u mainly do to 5 star the lvls and all that?
For mostly of the missions like Reach the Goal, (Total) Ramage, Perfect Challenges and Boss Battles I use items called Chain bracelet and Gladiolus together. For missions like Collecting Ring, Ring Chains, Giving the Townspeople Rings and Legacy I use items called Highland Mushroom and Flower Amulet. For Hidden Fairy missions I use Flower Amulet and String of Pearls
Not only that, but on missions where you use the Chain bracelet and Gladiolus; you need to keep your hit combo going long enough to get a 5 Star Rank otherwise you won't beat those stages (Knight's Passage).
@@jaydiamondsonic7871 ok thats good to know what items but i mainly meant what strategy do u do
Do a homing attack then shake the Wii remote to hit chain enemies to boost your points
Age is a interesting factor because as a Mega Man fan: every Mega Man game has aged RIDICULOUSLY well. Look at Mega Man X4 on the PS1 in 1997 and you will see that game still stands to testament of time. With Sonic, they try too much with experimentation and they don't keep a consistency like 3D Mario, 3D Zelda, and even Metroid. Which is Sonic's biggest flaw as a franchise.
And now I have a Sonic video to make next week
I haven't played any Megaman X game after X4, but isn't the general consensus that X5 and onwards have never been quite good? Heck, in my personal opinion, X3 is an atrocious entry. I only really like the first, second and fourth games.
There's also a lot of hate for the original series becoming stale after Megaman 2 and 3, and Megaman and Bass in particular I haven't heard much if any good things about it.
@@LowerBlack64 Well selfish promo aside since I am covering the franchise on my channel, yes that is the general consesus. I used X4 as the example of how age as a factor really depends on certain things. X5 was still good and X6 was...X6, they retained the quality of X4's charm. X7 we never talk about though haha
@@LowerBlack64 X3 was a fantastic game. Reason why y’all don’t like it is because of the backtracking and how difficult the game was. Try this run and come back to see if I at very least change your tune on that game. Here’s order to only backtrack two times to get everything included the gold armor in X3
First: Tunnel Rino
First Sub tank
Second: blizzard Buffalo
Heart tank, air dash part, and second subtank
Third: Neon Tiger
Third sub tank, buster part, and heart tank
Fourth: toxic sea horse
Heart tank, first ride armor by using charge version of ice weapon to create a block of ice to swim you up to surfice to get that ride armor part
Fifth: gravity beetle
Second ride armor
Sixth: blast hornet
Heart tank, destroy row of create boxes to use ride armor in any level
Gravity bettle (Backtrack)
Heart tank. Quit stage
Seventh: Volt Catfish
Fight against vile, heart tank, use charge version of blast hornet to get armor part, any ride armor to get final sub tank
Tunnel Rino (Backtrack) catfish weapon to get both heart tank and final armor part. Quit stage.
Lastly: crush crawfish
Heart tank and final ride armor.
First sigma stage. Full health. Slide down on one of the walls to get gold armor.
Switch to zero on second sigma stage just before the boss to get z-saber for X. Enable rookie hunter mode on this part so Zero can survive the power of suck before enemy dies.
Final boss in second and third phase suck. First phase can cheese, second phase is easy with z saber, third phase I hate it so much. I switch to rookie hunter mode to survive the rising lava just before the credits roll. Other than that I loved X3 to death
I hope at very least made X3 a more enjoyable experience. I used to dislike X3 a few years ago but only because of how difficult the game was. Recently I got better in previous mega man games and now when I learned this order I loved X3. It’s my second favorite in X series. Third belongs to X2 and forth belongs to X4. X5 was just ok. X6 was bad all around even by using black zero cheat code. No opinion on X7, and X8 is decent.
@@dreamsdeep1076 The reason I don't like X3 is mainly because the levels are very hit or miss, with Neon Tiger and the maverick that gives you the electric attack being very un-engaging imo and the subweapons being wildly ineffective, Triangle Spark (Is this correct? i forget) comes to mind as being super obtuse and not fun to use, while the magnetic weapon just doesn't work as a projectile. I just don't have fun in that game like I do with the other ones I do have played.
Meanwhile, the complaints for, say, Mario and Mega Man, were that they basically stuck to the same very rigid formula most of the time
I'd say the shift with Sonic Frontiers is already happening. I've seen so many people saying it's mid or garbage. Which is wild to me because I still love it as much as I did at launch.
My suspicion is the insane positivity people had at launch caused a reaction from the more critical crowd to point out and overblow every flaw the game has, even though every game has flaws.
I was saying it's mid from the day it was released.
I like how open it is. Sure it's sections, but it's fun attacking robots. The puzzles are lackluster, but I think they did that to make it easier for younger players. there needs to be higher difficulty or more to do. Just look at the Yakuza games and how many mini games there are. There's even full blown arcade games in them from Sega's backlog!
It’s a game who’s Flaws become even more noticeable the more you play. It was inevitable people realized how Mediocre it actually is.
i thought the game was gonna be mid from the trailers alone, low and behold it was still mid when i played the game.
also the reason why people are being more critical is 1. people having issues with the game but sliding them under the rug and 2. more people are playing the game so there is bound to be people who have opinions that arent "this game is perfect"
The thing is the game IS mid, the new Zelda's release just exposed it. Forced 2D sections in an open world with ridiculous pop-in and hella automation? Almost every aspect of the cyberspace levels? Gimme a break, bruh it's open-world Forces
One thing you didn't mention is awful rereleases/ports. People who played Colours ultimate or Adventure DX are gonna think less of the game than someone who played the originals.
I don't think people will hate Sonic Frontiers if the next open world game is better, they will simply see it as a stepping stone to be there and recognise the improvements and innovations it brought to the franchise.
No, knowing this fanbase they will definitely hate Frontiers and see it as a horribly designed beta version of the next game after it.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Depends if they rely on the last updates and DLCs to remember how it is.
@@quangamershyguyyz7166I mean people saw it that way before the game released
As a fan of Shadow The Hedgehog the other thing I would say beneath simply respecting the ambition is almost always a sense of "these couple unique buried aspects shine".
It's even clearer with 06 fans with how many mods and hacks they make, but honestly that is why I made the Gamma-Timer Mission-Replacement mod. The goal of that was to make it so that the experience of rushing through levels blasting enemies trying to ace things didn't require having the enemy placement in levels memorised.
What's wild is there may eventually be a time where people say "forces is a good game" and that scares me. As an 06, unleashed and colors ds enjoyer i know what i want. I don't need a 10/10 story not every dialogue is gonna hit. But i want iconic moments through gameplay and story that will drive me to come back. Having an opinion is an option... To vocally announce, and the internet makes it very hard. But for me i wish people had consistency, instead of praising sonic 4 and then realising all this time they were playing a shitty classic sonic phone game on console.
I don't know if other fans of Sonic & the Black Knight feel this way but I genuinely enjoyed it's gameplay. Slicing through enemies and trying to master movement with the sword is genuinely fun.
It feels like a car that can only move forward that bumps into everything.
@@macuser7048 I'd say that description better fits Secret Rings. With Black Knight you can achieve a sort of smooth flow through the level if you're skilled enough. It almost feels like a boost game but instead of boosting through everything you're tearing through it with a sword. My biggest critique with the controls is that the on-rails level design makes backtracking super annoying though that's only an issue in very few cases.
meanwhile here i am realizing that it's just a video game and it doesn't matter how good or bad it is cause it's made for entertainment
@@macuser7048 how in the hell does it feel like a car? I'm gonna guess you don't actually play racing games otherwise you wouldn't say this lol
It's been ages since I played it, but I remember enjoying it a fair amount. Not groundbreaking and kinda average, but I don't recall it being too unfun or frustrating outside maybe a few levels. This cannot be said for Secret Rings which I distinctly recall being horrendous to play from start to finish... and watching someone stream it recently, it only confirmed those memories.
Yeah, I strongly believe I’m one of the Sonic fans, and gamer in general, that loves games that everyone else hates. I thought Sonic Colors was fun when I played it on Switch, and I love Sonic Forces even though it’s dropped in my Top 10 Sonic Games list. But the best example I can think of is Balan Wonderworld. I love this game so much, despite the gameplay being childishly basic. Haters can have my throat for this, but goddamn it, I love this game to pieces!
Well, if you first experienced Colors on Switch, it might be more of a contrarian mindset. Colors was the most beloved modern Sonic game for years until Forces made people realize the level design was similar. Maybe if you experienced on the Wii when people liked it, you wouldve hated it 😂 Also, why did Forces drop in your Top 10 Sonic games list? Barely any games have come out since then...
@@theinktician I first played Colors on DS, never played the Wii version. Also, my Top 10 Sonic games included Sonic Dash and Zero Gravity. Forces was originally number 1 for personal reasons, but it dropped because I see now that it's... lackluster, for lack of a better word, compared to other Sonic games I've played or seen. That's all
I'm glad I'm not the only one who notiecd this. I've noticed a similar phenomenon with the pokemon series when it comes to gen 5 and future gens, but of course since it's the pokemon community it's 10 times more insufferable because of the overwhelming amount of people who gatekeep what people can and cannot like. I'm glad the Sonic community is having actual healthy discussions about the games they like nowadays.
As a huge Colors fan, seeing just about everyone call it “mid” or “bad,” is pretty depressing, and it makes me feel like a disgrace to humanity for having the opinion that I do. I will admit that I have some of the weirdest opinions you’ll probably ever hear, but why does that have to be a bad thing? There are other people who have weird opinions as well, and I’m not seeing them get bashed; it’s just me because I like a very hated game. Keep in mind that I’m playing Sonic Colors: Ultimate so that’s where I’ve derived my experience from. I think it was a great remaster that improved upon a lot from the original and added cool bonus content that really didn’t have to be there, but I’m glad that it was. But, as soon as I say that, I get a reply from someone saying something along the lines of “what about the glitches?”, “how do you enjoy that?”, or I just get laughed at. My tip would be to keep some of your opinions to yourself to avoid a childish conflict, but then again, there’s always going to be those people that respect what you think regardless of what they think, and those people deserve a huge shoutout! :)
Dun worry about that man, never feel bad about liking a bad game and never feel ashamed to say you like it
It's important to put how you feel above anything else, specially when it's about video games, which are nothing more than entertainment
Sonic Colors is my favorite Sonic game and the best one to me. The fanbase can say or think whatever it wants to. You shouldn't let the fanbase make you feel down for having an opinion like that. If you like it, you like it.
Thank you for the encouragement, fellas! I truly appreciate it! :)
I got problems with Colors because of what it did for Sonic and I don’t hide my gripes with it but if you’re willing to enjoy it, don’t let me stop you. All works of fiction are subjective for critique, even the best ones.
I actually enjoy playing Colors Ultimate and I never encountered any glitches. I use to get hate for liking Forces and for liking Infinite, but that's stop now. I only get a few people always say to me Infinite sucks and Mephiles is better, I ignored them because it's my opinion. To me Mephiles is good character and his design is cool but he is not one of my favorites.
I'm going to say something I've said on other videos. One of the big reasons games like Sonic Unleashed get such a big resurgence is because the kids who grew up with the game and enjoyed it are now adults who have a voice on the internet. That should be obvious, but some people forget that.
Yeah kinda like the whole classic vs modern thing. In the 2000s and early to mid 2010s the common opinion was that classic sonic was the best sonic. The 2d games were considered better than the 3d ones, the Ohshima style was considered better than the Uekawa style, the tone of the stories and even the soundtracks were seen as better if they were classic themed.
However what many people don't realize is that the reason for "classic good modern bad" was so prevalent in the 2000s was because the average Sonic fan at the time grew up in the 90s, and the games they played as children were the classic titles. Which is why the only modern sonic content being made by the fanbase were those old flash animations made by teenagers which were more accustomed to modern sonic. Eventually in the mid 2010s the average person was more used to modern than classic, as the classic sonic fans were now in their 30s and many of them just lost interest in the franchise at the time.
Nowadays there's this idea that the whole classic v modern debate started with Generations, and that this game sparked a division in the fanbase. However the only thing Generations did was actually dividing classic style sonic and modern style sonic as different characters altogether, in order to appease both sides of the fanbase. However this division in the fanbase actually began all the way back in Sonic Adventure, which was a drastically different game from the classics.
ok so let me get this straight: being an adult with a voice on the internet automatically means you should hate everyone and everything and complain about everything all the time? am i reading that correctly? cause that's a very retarded statement if that's what you're trying to say
Exactly. Same reason why a change in Sonic's voice actor would do more damage than good now. The majority of current fans grew up with this VA. Same for the kids who are still growing up (unless they just watch the movies or something)
@@andarilho_31 I always feel like I'm in the minority in my generation(Gen Z-born in 1999) because I actually grew up with the Classics FIRST, and then played the Adventure games when I was a teenager in like 2012-2013. So my opinions on the whole Classic versus Modern debate are comparable to the Classic fans from the 90's. Now this doesn't mean I hate the Modern games. I still like games like the Adventure games, not so much as a whole mind you but I still like them, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, and Sonic Generations.
I think a Sonic game that would really wow me in a sense is basically a 3D version of Sonic 3 and Knuckles, where all of the characters control the same way but have there own unique differences, like Tails' ability to fly, Knuckles' ability to glide and climb and punch things, Shadows' Chaos powers, Silvers' psychic powers, etc.
I feel like Frontiers won't face *as* harsh as a shift in view from fans as colors. If the next game is better, we'll still remember Frontiers as the one that actually shifted the direction of the series.
no it's still gonna receive ALL the hate, because as i stated in my comment, EVERYONE looks of ANYTHING to hate on, which is full blown retarded in my opinion
I might be biased but I think recency bias is probably one of the reasons most people like Frontiers I might be wrong tho. I personally I'm not a fan of the game, it has a lot of issues both gameplay and story wise to do anything to me. It was ok the first time but I didn't felt the urge to replay it and I don't think I'll ever will. But this is just me, I don't have an issue with the people who like it.
@@Rex13013 the fact that you have to say "i don't have an issue with the people who like it" tells me that you most likely DO have an issue with them :/
@@montymole2 What kind of retarded logic is that? People can have their own opinions and preferences, the reason I'm stating that is because of people that immediately come and assume I'm just a "hater" when it's my actual opinion which is why I said that to say that if they disagree with me it's ok.
Believe me or not, but I don't have an issue with people, I can't believe that even saying "I'm ok with different opinions" gets twisted in something bad lmao there's no winning here
Also, I'm fairly certain that the general consensus regarding Frontiers is that (talking about gameplay specifically) it's a solid foundation in need of refinement, whether through patches or sequels.
That perception might insulate it from the extremes of opinion that we've seen regarding prior games.
I think Frontiers will get more of a favorable look since it was a "pioneer" of the Open Zone gameplay. This is of course assuming the next Open Zone game is good and they don't abandon it or make another 06 or Forces tier game that traumatizes the studio into never touching the concept again. The issue with Colors is that it didn't really 'invent' or even perfect the Boost formula, it was ultimately a kind of awkward middle child. People really only liked it because people hated the Werehog stages so much and just wanted Unleashed without Hog, and to most that is what Colors seemed to be.
Frontiers still will have the pedigree of being the 'first' so even if it's one-upped I think people will still appreciate it for walking so X can run vs people who think Colors was the start of everything bad with Sonic up to Forces.
I think the reason why opinions on games change is future games. When you look at a lot of the Colors hate a lot of it comes from how it impacted the series. Just like how a lot of the Adventure hate from a decade ago was from how they impacted the series. What those games did well, future games took and progressively made it worse like the wisps. They were great in Colors, but over time, in Generations, Lost World and Forces, they slowly messed more and more to the point where no one likes them anymore and that hate is being brought over to Colors. A decade ago, the adventure games were getting hate because a lot of what they did, like the dark stories were in the late 2000s games and especially at that time a lot of them were not well received.
The reason why games like Unleashed and 06 become more popular in the fanbase is because they have something the fanbase feels is lacking. A decade ago, people just wanted to play as Sonic, they wanted something more accessible, more lighthearted, etc, and that is what we got with Sonic Colors. Now the views of the fanbase are that they want more story, more playable characters, bigger scope, etc, and that is what a lot of those games like 06 and Unleashed give.
TL;DR - The present and future affect the past.
Sonic unleashed is the first videogame I ever hated as a kid, I felt like I got scammed into buying a knock off god of war game rather than a sonic game. The actual sonic levels are nice, but they make up a fraction of what the actual game is, which is the werehog. I wouldn’t mind if it was the other way around, but since the werehog takes up like 75% of the game which is completely inferior to the parts everybody actually wants to play, I don’t even see this as a sonic game.
I understand the love for it, it feels big budget, looks pretty, takes itself seriously, but none of those things actually make the game worth playing to me and it kinda seems like sonic fan’s priorities are in very strange places.
Just look at Sonic 06. That game came out unpolished, it has a lousy story, controlling the characters in the game is painful, but many fans nowadays consider it their favorite Sonic game because of the ambition behind it. In fact, saying "I like Sonic 06" can no longer be considered a hot take. (I clarify that I am not against those who like Sonic 06, I respect their tastes and opinions)
I think the biggest ones for me has to be Adventure 1, Unleashed and slowly Frontiers. Now personally, those 3 are in my top 5.. but the opinions have changed so much over the course of years. Unleashed is the most jarring though, considering that this game was not highly revered even within the Sonic community... until Frontiers was on the way. Now when we use the word "combat" with Frontiers to reference the fighting style.... now it's one of the best Sonic games and we're comparing the 2... nah y'all weren't saying this 5 years ago! But I actually love Unleashed. 360/PS3 version will always be up there with me!
Sonic Colors is my favorite Sonic game and the best one to me. The fanbase can say or think whatever it wants to.
Agreed.
Doesn't change the fact that it's a mediocre pile of trash
@@yrooxrksvi7142 to you. It's critically acclaimed for a reason. If you don't personally like it that's fine, but don't invalidate the opinions of everyone who disagrees with you.
@@baylordiamond8819 Yes, it's "critically acclaimed" for idiotic reasons such as "it has no werehog or stupid Sonic's friends" or "it doesn't take itself seriously". So no, its reception invalidates it on the fact that they praised it more for what it wasn't or didn't have rather than its own merits.
@@yrooxrksvi7142
1) its fair to praise colors for having no warehog since some people didn't personally enjoy the warehog since it was a major diversion from sonics gameplay
2) Some people including myself felt the franchise was getting overdramatic and wanted a break from every sonic game needing to be serious all the time
3) there are other things critics praised about sonic colors. The graphics were amazing for the wii. The art direction was beautiful. It is in my opinion the best level design 3d sonic has ever had and is the second best 3d sonic game behind unleashed (in my subjective opinion) .
The game did not feel bloated or padded out with unnecessary filler, backtracking, or introducing mandatory diversions from the main gameplay style (like unleashed, 06, rush adventure, 0shit, or sonic heroes)
4)While these might be the reasons you dislike the games these are the same reasons most people in the general gaming public love this game and feel like it was a return to form for the franchise. It is fine for you to feel alienated because you liked the direction the series was headed prior to colors and saying these people have the "wrong opinion" and call the majority of your own fanbase stupid for having different tastes in video games than you do is a shitty thing to do.
I generally chalk up the online consensus of whether certain games are good or bad to a few primary details:
1. How close the release of that game is to Sonic 06.
2. Whether that game is the newest game in the franchise at the moment.
3. Loud minorities vs silent majorities.
I will use Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors as examples of what I mean:
Sonic Unleashed was the next major entry in the franchise after Sonic 06. Many fans were still feeling the fresh burns of the let down that was Sonic 06, and many of these people had become outright Sonic haters in the fallout. It was around this time that sentiments like "Sonic was never good, actually" started to grow popular, and so memeing all over Unleashed as "That dumb Sonic game where they though it was a good idea to turn Sonic into a dumb werewolf" became the standard viral opinion. It didn't help that most people who played the game were playing the less optimized PS3 version. As time went on and all but the most obsessed haters started to get over 06, fans both new and old started revisiting Unleashed and sentiments toward it improved dramatically as a hidden gem that while far from perfect, didn't deserve the bad rep it had been given at the time. Lots of people actually did like Unleashed to begin with, but they were drowned out in the storm of viral internet opinions if they voiced their positive sentiments at all. I remember it being treated as heresy by the community in 2008/2009 if you stated you actually liked the Werehog.
Sonic Colors was the next major entry in the franchise after Sonic Unleashed, and was designed under the mentality of keeping and improving on the parts of Unleashed that people actually liked. The community was starving for good content at the time, and so Colors was generally considered something of a return to form for the franchise and one of the better games to have come out. Once Generations came out it quickly overshadowed Colors as the better experience, and many people who never got to play Colors the first time around would unfortunately go on to experience it for the first time through the botched release version of Colors Ultimate. Overall both versions of the game are very mediocre and nothing mindblowing, but because of that botched Ultimate release sentiments towards Colors in general dropped into deep unfavourability as a buggy, barely playable game with too much 2D.
good video! Why didnt I think of the idea that 06's recency bias affected unleashed's reputation, good stuff! The ambition point was well put, even tho I actually like the games for their gameplay too!
I think Mario 3D World was a recency bias issue along with Odyssey.
At the time, everyone hated 3D World, because it was just another level by level platformer.
But after Odyssey came out and had essentially 1000 collectible moons that were monotonous to collect, 3D World aged like a fine wine.
Eh, I think 3D World was always moderately enjoyable, there were a suprising number of let's plays for it at the time, despite how much Nintendo was trying to prevent them.
Both 3D Land and World are better than Odyssey
Imagine the series's direction if sonic 06 didnt flop though
Imagine how it’d be now if Sega didn’t learn the wrong lessons from 2006 aka don’t rush a game out and don’t split a team in two when they have a big project going on.
We would have adventure style games up until now. I'd be ok with that.
@@rayvenkman2087 Sega has been rushing Sonic games since Sonic 2 on the Genesis. Getting rushed was only part of the problem.
@@rayvenkman2087 Mega Man games get rushed too, but they don't mess with the formula. they all rock.
@@macuser7048
Besides and X7. And that's not even the most fucked up Megaman game. That'd be X6.
I lowkey hate the concept of "aging" in media. Standards change over time of course, but i hate when thats used as a criticism
Yeah I hate how they call early 3D games "aged poorly". UGH. that goes for both Mario AND Sonic. Zelda too!
At the same time though, I understand and other people should understand where those arguments are coming from. Like yeah, Sonic Adventure was first released in 1998/1999 so there is going to be some jank and other issues with the game, but we shouldn't just go out and say that it's the best thing ever knowing that the industry has drastically improved TENFOLD since that time, which was almost 25 years ago. However, I do still think that Sonic Adventure looks good enough when it comes to the lighting, especially in the original Dreamcast release. And there is a somewhat charm to the way SA1, and SA2 as well, looks in terms of its graphics. So maybe I'm a hypocrite for saying the game looks good even though it hasn't aged well in certain areas.
@@SpeedyBlur2000 Sonic Adventure is about the same as Super Mario 64 in terms of graphics so pretty much a hi res version what it would have looked like on Saturn. Heck, they even left in the Sonic model from the Saturn version in the airplane stages. SA2 is more Dreamcast. It's really cool looking. That's how I see it. I like the aesthetics of both. Even Sonic Shuffle has a weird charm to it with it's cel shading.
All this tells me is you either don't know what the claim actually means or you've only ever taken it at face value
@@AkameGaKillfan777 elaborate and i'll hear you out
It physically pains me every time someone hates on sonic colours
Agreed.
Cope. Seethe. Mald. The more hate this pathetic watered down Unleashed/Mario knock-off gets, the better.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 Why? Is it because YOU will cope, seethe, and mald if YOUR preferred game gets backlash?
@@AkameGaKillfan777 Damage control walking to the ring !
@@yrooxrksvi7142 So is that a yes?
I think that by in just some years after the mainline sonic game release I think that a lot of opinions are going to change about frontiers.And theirs are opinions that are changing about the game as well
Maybe because even if a game is decent people expect games to be all masterpieces when it’s not a movie or show or a book. It’s a game. Games are for fun. Nothing more. Everything else such as story in games are secondary and shouldn’t negatively impact a game unless the gameplay is interacting with story
For sure frontiers is gonna get smoked in reviews once we get better games. Hard to imagine, but they will get better than that. It's new territory.
I think another thing that recently impacted people’s opinions on Sonic Colors was the initial release of Sonic Colors Ultimate. People who never experienced the game before finally got a chance to try it out, and what did they find? An unpolished game with an absurd amount of bugs, some of which could even be considered a health hazard. I’m sure some people thought that if the remaster was bad, then the original game must also be bad. Sure, patches came out eventually, but no amount of bug fixes are going to completely restore that game’s reputation, and I think it cost the original’s reputation too.
thats 100% true
Possibly, but I disagree with the statement. Sonic colors disdain had existed for 5 years before sonic colors ultimate came out. I don’t think sonic colors ultimate what is that started sonic colors being considered a worse game
Forces started the Colors hate, but Colors Ultimate certainly didn't help.
That’s why I quit being a Sonic fanboy and became a Mario fanboy. At least Mario fans aren’t controversial by games.
I just think it’s funny that he’s talking about sonic while wearing a mario shirt.
I just think there have been so many generational shifts in the Sonic community and people get nostalgic for the titles they grew up with and the loud people on internet change over time. During the "dark age" there were a lot of loud opinions on the internet about wanting the classic gameplay style back and more recently people have been more vocal towards the adventure era and the dark age games and it'll happen to the 2010 Sonic games as well down the line. My opinions over Sonic games haven't changed that drastically. I still enjoy the adventure games, Heroes, Riders, Colors, Generations and even Lost World. Sonic 4 and Sonic Unleashed are pretty much the only games I've had turnarounds with. I remember liking Sonic 4 episode 1 when it came out since it was a new 2D game and I didn't know better. Now that I have a better understanding of the classic games and now that Mania exists I have no reasons to go back to Sonic 4. After getting through Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric I went back to Unleashed and found it to be a better game, still not my top tier Sonic game but a good one. I just haven't been very vocal about Sonic in social media as many others no doubt.
Also my first experience with Sonic Lost World was very mixed but then I started a new playthrough just after finishing and it clicked.
Recency bias is something everyone will go through when it comes to Sonic or any game really. When I first played Sonic Unleashed back when it released on the Xbox 360, I absolutely loved the game. And I still do love Sonic Unleashed, don't get me wrong, but I just think it's good. Not great, but not terrible. And I know Sonic Frontiers will already be called a mid/bad game (because I've actually seen it on Twitter, but it's not a surprise that it's Twitter lol). I will always love Sonic Frontiers, but I just think it's an 8/10 with some flaws that shouldn't be ignored.
Actually it’s okay to ignore the issue’s because if the game is fun than it’s alright to look pass them
@@dreamsdeep1076no its not, you should point out issues so the game can improve
People have called Sonic Frontiers a mid/bad game here too. So, no it’s not only Twitter.
@@dreamsdeep1076No, that's not ok
@@quangamershyguyyz7166Ok and? People are allowed to dislike stuff, if people don't like Frontiers it doesn't mean they're just haters. I personally dislike it or just think it's mid for a myriad of reasons I stated in other comment threads in this comment section but I have no issues with people who like it unless they disregard my opinion.
As long if you keep on trying, there’s no hard feelings.
That's just how opinions usually are.
People's views change as they age and thus, their opinions change. Opinions I have now may have changed prior opinions to they were in the past.
I used to think watching sports was stupid when I was younger. Now I enjoy it.
I makes no sense to me when people get fussy when people's opinions change around Sonic games.
Are people's opinions always meant to be never changing? Opinions don't work like that. Yes, some opinions don't change but on the flip side, it's perfectly find and makes sense if it does.
You are right
no
he's left
Woah, this Sonic opinion truly has changed
I think for Unleashed another reason why people hated it was because they played the 1st version of it and not the remastered version. Earlier this year I learned that the stages were different in both versions. Sonic Unleashed was my first Sonic game and the remastered version. When I was younger I used to hate the werehog for how slow it was and all but as I got older I grew to appreciate it. I need to get Unleashed again someday as I never beat Eggmanland so now that I'm older I need my redemption arc for real.
You mean the PS3 and Xbox 360? That was the one that was shown the most and I think that and the Wii and PS2 version came out on the same day
@@mart5610 yh I mean the ps3 version
@@aidanlyons25 yeah the PS3 version gets too much hate. Better lighting than Xbox and FPS. Its 60 uncapped while on 360 its only 30. and its pretty smooth. Obviously the new Xbox version runs the best though
@@mart5610 true, true
"1st" version?
-Some youtuber with a decent following makes a video sharing an, at the time, unpopular opinion
-Viewers who share that opinion gather on that video
-Said viewers, now feeling their opinion has validity due to said youtuber, share the opinion elsewhere
-Multitude of people with that opinion grows as they convince people their other opinions are wrong through basically peer pressure (comment with more likes is the right opinion type of thing)
-Continues until time passes and the topic dies down, people aren’t as harsh towards each other as they don’t get enough attention anymore to warrant it
-*insert some other unpopular opinion that gets attention once people stop immediately ridiculing it*
and then it starts again
or more generally that people take the popular opinions they see about games online as fact, and then attempt to invalidate any other opposing opinion. Then they either actually play the game themselves and realise everyone was overreacting, or the opposing opinion actually starts to gain traction and suddenly becomes the “right” opinion
You talking about Arin Hanson, SomeCallMeJohnny, and ExoParadigmGamer?
@@jomaq9233 Not really anyone in particular, to be honest
@@jomaq9233 I feel like SomeCallMeJohnny had really great points in his videos about the Adventure games, as well as the other 3D games after them. He didn't even call the Adventure games bad overall, just that he enjoyed like half of SA1 and about a third of SA2.
I understood what @apersoniguess_ was talking about, I just wanted to get that point across.
AAAAAANNNDDD WE'RE THE GAMEGRUMPS!!
I'm convinced the weird hate Colors gets has more to do with it's influence on later games than the quality of the game itself.
Nah, the game is mediocre at best. One has to be delusional to deny how many needless changes and nerfs it had : no Light Dash, no Air Dash, an inconsistent floaty double jump, you can Quick Step or Drift ONLY when the game feels like it, the Boost has been drastically nerfed, more than half of the game is lazily put together filler 2D stages or Wisps gimmicks.
And because they don’t wanna put the time into learning the level Design and wisps.
@@Terminal_Apotos Sure, because there's soooo much to learn about tediously jumping on slow af 2D blocks, waiting for platforms to SLOWLY raise up, or wasting time with a worthless gimmicky Mario power-up.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 Ah I see you have a Skill issue and would rather cry and whine than get good.
Gonna add my two cents and say that one of my favorite parts about the Sonic franchise is the new playstyles they experiment with; Colors had almost no experimentation outside a few seconds at best of Mario-style power ups that are more like standard gimmicks of 2D Sonic stages.
That's on top of the lack of plot craziness, Eggman was working to start global Nuclear War as far back as the Game Gear games. That isn't an exaggeration by the way, the nukes were literally a part of Sonic Chaos' plot.
P.S.: Colors was the first time that I regretted buying a Sonic game, and it was my least favorite game in the franchise to date, lower than 06 or Shadow by far.
"A delayed game is bad, a rushed game is bad, all video games are bad, I fucking hate video games and making them" - Shigeru Miyamoto
Interesting spin on a glorified meme
For Sonic games there will always be conflicting opinions
Sonic Mania Plus and Sonic Mania Adventures, Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Prime, Sonic Superstars, and Sonic movies 1 and 2 are all good for recent stuff. Forces blew chunks. Boom bombed.
ive been a sonic fan since i was a kid and its always confused me why people always flip the switch on a game years later. this video really hit the nail in the head and explained it so well now i can finally rest 😭
I sorta agree, I've also been a fan since I was a kid and I don't think I've changed my opinion drastically on a game, games that I like I still do, games that I dislike I still dislike
An opinion CAN be wrong: it's a view/judgment about something. But "wrong" opinions usually come about through misinformation about objective fact. The quality of a video game is inherently subjective.
But calling criticism a wrong opinion doesn't help either.
@@macuser7048
It does if that criticism is based on a bunch of bullshit. Like being bad at the game or not understanding the plot because of your own incompetence rather than the game's fault.
@@espurrseyes42 It's not based on bullshit. the hate on the Adventure games is bullshit. I wish people could tell the difference between what is actually epic and what isn't. It's why Sonic stayed jokey for so long. It's been grating. Stuff like Prime gives me hope.
@Mac User I love the adventure games (exept sa2 i hate that one) but that doesn't mean all criticism is bs. The adventure games have legit issues and it's OK if you don't personally like it or think it's an outright bad game.
Why are you the arbiter of what is a correct opinion or not. Why can't people have different opinions on a game. They're called opinions because they are subjective. You cannot have a wrong opinions since it's a double negative.
@@baylordiamond8819
If your subjective opinion is based on misinformation/a lack of information, things that are objective, then your opinion is also objectively wrong. If the foundation is fragile, so is the thing it holds up, and it too will come crashing down when that it sits on crumbles.
This was an extremely needed video for both the sonic community and its haters
The part where you talk about ambition is precisely why I can never bring myself to dislike Sonic Chronicles. The gameplay itself isn't the best but dangit I love the whole premise of adapting Sonic into an RPG and the story genuinely had me hooked when I first played it that I didn't care about its shortcomings.
Honestly, I been always loving the same games ever since I first started playing the games. Yes, I do love sonic and the secrect rings and sonic 06 and sonic unleashed! I will never change my opinion and never will stop loving these games! I always been loving most of the sonic games and that will never change! Seeing everyone talk about the bas things in the sonic games, but those opinions don't bother me because I know what I love and will always love and that will never change! 😁
Thanks so much Matt for this video and I can also talk about this in a video if anyone is confused on my comment lol
You're talk about how some people don't play a game for the gameplay, but for story or something else made me realize that while I do enjoy the high-speed gameplay, my main reason for liking Sonic games are the characters.
I mean, hell, I have yet to find a Sonic game in which I didn't enjoy seeing the bizarre adventure of the blue hedgehog and his other friends. I just always find it fun to see them go
That said, ofc, I haven't played every Sonic game yet
The Sonic Cycle just never ends. Wait a decade and people will insist Sonic Forces was the best game all along. I'm just going to say it's because the kids who grew up playing these hated games are now the majority.
(Same happens with Pokemon)
I think your point on age is good, which is why usually when I form an opinion ab a game I like to take into factor how the game was in relevance to its release date, if I feel like a game was ahead of its time and was great for the time period it released then i'm gonna rate it high, even if it seems pretty poopy now compared to modern games
if the next sonic game fixes on frontiers' issues, frontiers will be put into a sonic adventure situation. frontiers is still fun, and although it has problems, it would pave the way for a better sonic. that's why people are crying for a frontiers 2, because people see the same potential that existed in sonic adventure, the only 3d sonic game to have a direct sequel.
Yh it’s kinda what people thought of unleashed at the time of release a game that paved the way for colours and generations even tho I like unleashed more then those games I can understand that argument
Because there's a decline in quality. They don't know how good they had it until it's gone.
This!
Abso-fucking-lutely
Let me save everyone the 17 minutes from crap UA-cam pushes. Sonic’s quality has been drastic for twenty years - leading to mixed reception. Like what you like, opinions are subjective.
Thanks, hope I saved you some time
10:20 Honestly, I would say that Sonic Forces was the reason moreso
After Forces came out and was disliked for its shallow design and 2D gameplay, Colors looked just as underwhelming when compared to it
This also applies to Unleashed, because Forces was disappointing in terms of ambition and budget, Unleashed looked way better looking back on it
Forces has done a lot to this franchise the more I think about it. Great video btw!
tbh I feel like sonic as a franchise is met with harsh critique that most other game franchises never have to deal with, its become a bit of trend to hate sonic
personally I blame yt review influencers, they create these eco chambers and the viewers bandwagon there opinion rather then actually trying the game themselves and formulating they're own opinions
remember when the adventure games were considered good back in the early 2000s
thats why you gotta be careful where you get your reviews from
you cant trust a fickle opinion
Game Grumps with Sonic Adventure games is a big reason. The played the worst ports of the games that had significantly more glitches than the original versions. Plus 06 did really suck. It was just the mid/late 2000s era of hating on a ton of games because AVGN and somewhat Channel Awsome made that style of review popular
@@crestofhonor2349 agreed, and yeah 06 was objectively bad
Yeah your right, COD literally had it's own meta era from 2013 and beyond with no game beating black ops 2 till modern warfare remake bit doesn't get nearly as much hate.
The new games literally have more glitches than 06 bit het a pass.
@@anthonyyawtwumasimensah197 Newer games actually have their mechanics working. Sonic 06 is completely unfinished and has far more game breaking bugs. Gameplay is unfinished as well. I'm not defending the way games release now but Sonic 06 is still worse. Unfinished story, broken physics, stupidly long loading times, and much more. If Sonic 06 was released like Jedi Fallen order at least the gameplay would function even if the performance ultimately sucked
I remember always hearing about Unleashed being bad, I never understood why because I could not find any answers other than “Chip is annoying, the werehog is stupid” and I didn’t bother looking at any gameplay or cutscenes past the opening to see if I thought it was bad, then Unleashed got a lot of praise all of a sudden and so I tried it out, and it’s definitely one of my favorite games of all time and my favorite Sonic game, not only is the gameplay great imo but the story is pretty good too, with the cutscene where Sonic and Chip talking about Chip gaining his memories back before fighting dark Gaia being one of the most heartwarming moments I’ve seen in a video game and my favorite cutscene in the game. My only complaint is that they drag the werehog levels out a bit too long, I love the werehog’s gameplay but 30 minutes being the average amount of time it takes to beat a level (if you’re stuck it can probably drag on for even an hour) is just a bit too much
The main culprit as to why the Wherehog levels drag on for far too long is because of those damn Sun and Moon medals that you have to collect in order to advance the story. The medals that, need I remind you, do absolutely NOTHING! There is no reward for going after the medals in Sonic Unleashed. It's all for an achievement bonus for the Xbox Live or PSN Trophies.
At least the Power Stars in Super Mario 64 had somewhat of a purpose in the game. You can get 100 lives from Yoshi and fly around the castle grounds, which isn't much but for the time was really exceptional.
@@SpeedyBlur2000 yeah I honestly hate those medals, that, the fact that homing attack is mapped to the same button as boost, and the werehog stages dragging out too long are my only real complaints with this game
You never understood, or did you just plug your ears whenever people list other problems or go more in-depth with them?
Oh wait, "skill issue," I forgot
@@AkameGaKillfan777 no, literally whenever I heard about Sonic Unleashed being bad I would only hear about the werehog being terrible and that Chip is annoying (which I heavily disagree with), I heard no other reasons for the game being bad other than that. Although I understand the hate for the werehog because it is very different from usual Sonic gameplay, whenever I see other things being talked about (the animation, Sonic gameplay, the music) they are usually praised, I heard nothing about the medals being tedious and the homing attack being mapped to the same button as the boost, it was only ever about the werehog.
Another big factor here, and this goes for any other opinion related discussions about the fandom, Sonic has gone in so many different directions that everyone has such vastly different starting points in the series and as a result everyone has a completely different idea on what the series should be.
The person who’s first game was Sonic Heroes is going to have very different views on the series from the person who started with the Wii/PS2 version of Unleashed, and this goes for every other game in the series since so many of them tried very different things.
Weirdly, either of those games could be argued to be my starting points and I love both, so i'd be more than happy for either despite how wildly different those would be.
my opinion on how frontiers is gonna be seen in a few years is that its just gonna get less extreme, the people who hated it wont hate it as much and the people who loved it wont love it as much
no in reality it's like this: the people who hated it, hate it the same amount or more, and the people who loved it will hate it, because that's just how people are for some retarded reason
@@montymole2pretty much. People love changing their opinions and calling stuff bad instead of appreciating stuff
@@montymole2True. I don't really like it all that much, it was ok the first time but I really don't feel like replaying it at all, I don't like the story and the gameplay it's meh especially during the later islands, some cyberspace stages were fun but that's it
@@Rex13013 wrong reply lol (ignore me)
@@montymole2 ?
I personally enjoyed my time with Sonic Forces but I do think that it does suffers from Recency Bias (The form of Recency bias where another game is released around a similar time). Forces was released a couple months after Sonic Mania which everyone collectively agrees is an amazing game. This has caused Sonic fans to play Forces and call every aspect of it trash despite a lot of parts of Forces being pretty good or decent. For example, Forces is a visual beauty (In my opinion one of the best looking Sonic Games), however despite this people say the game looks like trash even though the lighting and textures are top notch. There are plenty of levels in Forces that break from what the usual level in that game feels like (For example, Modern Sonic's Metropolis levels which aren't automated, linear, or short). Forces was honestly treated pretty unfairly and I think Sonic Mania is one of the causes of it because of the fact that Mania is amazing and Forces is decent. I know it's been 6 years since Forces was released but I think eventually the overall opinion of Forces will shift. People will most likely play it again and praise it for it's good parts instead of calling even the good parts trash.
(Although I can't defend SEGA putting Classic Sonic into the game, they should've removed him in favor for more Avatar and Modern Sonic stages)
No, Forces is objectively garbage. A cheap, lazily put together, underwhelming game that's trying to be many things with the least amount of effort. It's not just the comparison with an overrated ROM hack, it just sucks.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 Are you talking about every part of Forces, including the visuals, cause if so you're doing exactly what I said in this comment, calling every part of forces absolute garbage despite parts of Forces deserving high praise.
@@ClassikSprites Yes, I'm talking EVERYTHING. The visuals are this weird, poorly juxtaposed mix of Lost World's ultra goofy and cartoony assets with some vaguely grounded designs borrowed from Generations. And it looks terrible. The character models look terrible. The story is trying to be this awesome epic uprising against Eggman, but with ZERO effort : the characters are just a bunch of useless cardboards or don't take anything seriously, the most interesting bits take place off-screen and barely brushed over. Infinite is a pathetic joke, literally Kylo Ren if he was a Sonic character. Eggman doesn't feel like a dictator in power, he's still on the run and whining over Sonic. Speaking of, Sonic is utterly insufferable in this game and never takes anything seriously. And do I need to bring up Tails ? Or the teased returning bosses you DON'T fight ?
There's absolutely nothing to praise about Forces. Even the music is mediocre.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 I do respect how you feel about Forces, I personally enjoy it, you clearly don't and I can understand that, I'm not going to turn this into a comment thread with constant arguments so I'll end it here.
@@yrooxrksvi7142It’s their opinion! Why don’t you understand that!!!! And no Forces is not objectively garbage. It’s literally 100% subjective to the people that play it. The only reason it seems cheap and lazily put together is because Sega rushed them and most of the devs who worked on the game were new and inexperienced. The game does have a bunch of effort put into it, about as much as other Sonic games before and after it. It just goes unnoticed or ended up failing. People just hate it because they see it as worse than it really is.
People hate Sonic Colors nowdays because of the perception of it being the origin point of many of the tropes that would define the games of the "Meta Era". The Colors Ultimate remaster also didn't help. I've been more people nowdays praising the DS version of Colors than the Wii version, when it was opposite in 2010.
Actually, Colors was criticised by a number of fans even then. It’s only now that they’re the vocal majority.
I rather play Mario Galaxy
Although I disagree with the statement that there is no such thing as an objectively good game, I understand the sentiment. I think there is no such thing as an unfun game since what constitutes a fun experience is ultimately up the player. However to consider whether or not a game is good objectively, I think this is certainly possible. Having standards for this sort of thing simply allows one to identify and judge quality. Doesn't stop people from finding games that are identified as bad to be fun and adding them to their favorites though.
I definitely see what you're saying. I just think the wording around something being "objectively good" kind of harms discussion. A better way of phrasing it would be saying "majority of players enjoy this game more than ___" Since that can be a fact.
@@Matthasnocuts respectfully, I meant to imply that an objectively good game has to be something based around fact. Such as a criteria established from successful game design within a respective genre and developer intention juxtaposed with the result of the design. That sort of thing. I know the word "objective" ruffles feathers in these types of discussions but I do believe it has a place. A "great game" (universal masterpieces) creates a model, an ideal measuring standard on how a game should function within it's respective genre. Through this lens all things can be measured. Disease is measured by a healthy organ or body, through health you can understand how the body is meant to function. All measurement requires an appropriate standard. This is delving into Aristotle though and I don't mean to bring philosophy into a discussion about a blue hedgehog lol. All I want to say with all of this is, I truly believe an objective outlook can be healthy in these sorts of discussions because it would result in increased quality for all involved.
Sonic colors was cool cause it was temple run but with sonic, but then people realized it was temple run with sonic. Which is stupid.
I personally liked Sonic and the black knight. It's probably due to ambition and nostalgia, I never hated on games such as Seven Rings since I never played it. I also remember when I was younger I actually enjoyed playing Unleashed. I also still enjoy Sonic Colors. Even though Sonic's games had dry humor and stuff like that, I still enjoyed it. What I always loved about Sonic games is the music. Sonic Superstars is coming out and I will most likely enjoy it, since I dont really look at how a game is, I look at how it made me feel.
My opinions have been changing since I was a kid like Sonic 1 being better than Sonic 2 I only thought that cause I sucked at video games and couldn't get past Green Hill
I loved Sonic when i was a kid. It was the only games I would ask to play at my cousin's house other than DKC.
Finally an factual reason. (To me personally)
You get a like.
You have no idea on the hate I got on liking Unleashed and 06 XD
Despite how universally accepted generations is, I fear there may come a time where everyone turns their back on generations and for what reason? I don’t know just yet but I hope that we can stay consistent for once with just this game.
I was thinking that the Sonic Colors backlash was more kick-started by the crummy re-release on Switch. People hated it, said it was awful, then re-evaluated the original and "discovered" that the game had never been good, even in its original form.
There's also the people who always felt this way towards these games and feel more comfortable expressing that after some time passes. I personally wasn't a fan of Colors and still don't really like it that much but saying that back then would probably get me lumped with the Sonic hater crowd
Here’s my main take. Games are made to be enjoyable and for the player to have fun. If somehow someway a game has managed to do that for a good amount of people, then it’s done it’s job. I can have fun playing 06. I can’t have fun playing Colors, but others can so Colors is still a solid game to me
This was a great video! Also 16:30 is so true
6:56 Appreciate the shout out, Matt. 8^)
There's one other thing that all of the games you mention having their reputation worsened over time have in common: their most accessible versions these days is a botched port. SADX, SA2B (this one to a lesser extent), and SCU really hurt the overall reputation of their respective games.
So true. Maybe when a unleashed remaster is released with similar issues because seriously there's complaints with origins so it's bound to happen, people might understand how sega's ports hurts their games rep.
I see many demanding a remaster of unleashed and I am really concerned about how they would turn out if they can't get the current ports and remasters of other games correct.=/
That's why I have the original colours still. Better version entirely.
Nobody outside of the fanbase has a problem with the "issues" of Battle
because most people just adopt the common opinion instead of making their own and sticking by it.
Changing opinions is happening to Generations too, i see alot of negative stuff about Generations about being too short and criticizing Classic Sonic, but everyone's just bullying Classic Sonic now because of Forces though
Because when theres been a drought of good games the bad ones might start to seem decent and when a decent one comes out it is hailed as a master piece. Its all about the perspective and standards shifting, the said standards already having been corroded by SEGA treating the series badly.
I genuinely want to know why you hate sonic heroes because I love that game to death, the controls are not the best I give you that, but the story is good imo, the characters are great, the level design is amazing, the combat is a mixed bag tho but ones you get use to it the combat doesn’t really slow you down and it’s actually quite fun to me, and they way the game utilizes the character switching in different abilities is generally amazing, I hate all the bosses but metal sonic though. I would love to see a video on your take ❤
Heroes'Controls suck. That's why I didn't like the game.
@@leonardocunha8160 it was slippery
@@dreamsdeep1076 Yeah, and that's why I didn't like the game because of that. If SEGA want to Remake this game and guarantee the controls, then yes, the game would be a thousand times better.
@@leonardocunha8160 honestly, I get that, the controls on sonic is very slippery when you get to that high speed, I just got used to it
@@thejoker194 still doesn’t feel great. Hope they re-release the game so I can mod the controls to feel more adventure-like
Not to mention Sega's questionable porting job. Sonic Adventure's reception started to take a hit after the DX port happened, and Adventure 2 seems to get worse with every re-release it gets, especially in the sound quality. Then there's Colors Ultimate.
Me being a fan of Sonic,Final Fantasy,Zelda,Resident Evil and Fire Emblem all at the same time is hell.
Yeah, i hate sonic unleashed. Maybe its my age. But just understand that the sonic franchise went from having some really good gamecube games to changing that entire gameplay style for boost to win. Thats like mario changing his rntire control scheme. So for ppl like ne, unleashed felt like the mach 6 sections in sonic 06. Gone was the speedy platforming sonic was known for. Sonic IS a platformer after all. So when colors came out, it was more controllable, polished, and the lighter story was warrranted because the sonic stories srarted getting ridiculous. Sonic unleashed is worse than sonic and the black knight and secret rings for me. But again, at that time, i thought the franchise sucked and really missed the adventure gameplay. Going back to play it, it still sucks but i now understand why it has so many fans. They were kids and didnt know any better.
No comments for Lost World? I find that game one of the most fascinating case studies in the franchise, in that it has some interesting ideas, being the one game that truly tried to be different amidst all other 3D entries, but in many ways the Mario Galaxy inspiration was ill suited, and that's not even scratching the surface of its messy story that tries to have it both ways being both light hearted and serious, being ultimately one of the weirdest and probably most disliked entries in a while.
Sea Bottom Segue is still the best song in the game tho and unironically good.
I tried to only talk about the most notable redemptions or wide opinion changes for Sonic games. Sonic Lost World is a great game in my opinion, however it hasn't received a redemption as big as say Sonic Unleashed for example. I'm still going to hope that day comes soon though!
@@Matthasnocuts Fair points. Maybe LW needs a few more years until people start talking about it again, though considering everything that the Wii U is, it may as well remain in the dark.
@@LowerBlack64 Who knows lost world is on steam + it might get a remake
Nobody talks about Lost World on the Nintendo 3DS. Better than the Wii U version
@@mart5610I used to like th3 3DS ver but then I relized how bad and unplayable it was alest we got new wisp
its called gaslighting, just make your opinions and don't always agree with what the internet tells you
Nice video I’ve always wonder Sonic fans change their opinions about Sonic games
Because they act like
Facts>Opinions
@@traviscunningham7062 huh thats why?
Not even a big Heroes fan (it's a 6/10 game for me), but that comment about Heroes at the end was a little too much. Recently played the PC version a couple of months ago and it's okay. I can see why people like or even love it, it's just not my favorite Sonic game for several reasons (I'd be here all day if I were to elaborate on those reasons).
Honestly when it comes to Games like Sonic Unleashed my opinion hasn’t really changed since I was little. I love the game so much but I get it’s not for everyone.
To me, another example is Sonic 4. Initially, I remember gamers trying to defend it even from people complaining about its physics. Nowadays? It makes you wonder where the hate came from.
THE ENDING LMAOOOOOOOO
It’s super common to see someone love something until something new comes along that they happen to like more and then turn around to trash the thing they liked originally. And then years later they go back and reminisce and go “____ wasn’t that all that bad now that I think about it.” Happens every single time.
I think free riders is soon gonna be included in "ambition" section after the no kinect patch comes out. Free riders in my opinion had so many cool ideas and levels but the kinect was the only thing that ruined the game
So when's that happening?
@@AkameGaKillfan777 not sure yet but the no kinect patch is in progress
@@aahiljcat Who's doing it?
I guess a lot of Colours' reputation has been floundered by the crappy remaster. Since the original is stuck on the Wii, people have to play Ultimate, which is ultimately the worst way to play it.
LOL No, Colors' legacy began to dwindle with Lost World's release.
I think Unleashed's redemption arc is a product of three things:
1) Professional Critics lost their value. Back when Unleashed was released amateur reviews are still in their infancy, meaning scores from journalists were still very relevant for a game's perception. This is not a thing anymore and journalists will often be mocked by online communities, especially after major gaffes like the Cuphead gameplay. Also, the IGN's Sonic Unleashed gameplay was just awful, the reviewer didn't even try;
2) Xbox backward compatibility allowing the game to be rediscovered by a new generation of players, with the added benefits of faster loading times, higher resolution and 60 fps. Unleashed simply got better with newer hardware;
3) The 2010's games made Sonic fans look back at the "Dark Era" games and rediscover the good in those titles. It used to cool to mock Sonic for trying, but nowdays fans would rather have another ambitious game that crash and burn on release like 06, than another bland and sage 2 hour title like Forces. I think it helps that Sonic fans who were teenagers and kids in the 2000's grew up and are no longer ashamed of the things they used to like because some guy on the internet said they should.
Also, I don't means to proof, but I think the 2010's games all failed to bring new fans to the Sonic franchise. There are rumors that the games have been declining in sales and even hits like Generations and Mania didn't so well in furthering the growing of the brand. There are reports that Mania didn't sell as well as Sega hoped.
2010’s easily makes the mid-1990’s look like the silver age. Probably helps there were other Sonic content available to cleanse your pallet with.
Frankly the Dark Era label for the 2000’s should be given to the 2010’s because instead of progressing or pushing the series forwards, it just stagnated when the series took after Colors’ childish writing style and didn’t get any better.
Generations’ the only game by Sonic Team that’s not completely destroyed by the PonTac Duo’s writing but even it’s got problems like how useless the side characters are in the franchise’s 20th Anniversary and how it put that damn idea into Sega’s head about Classic Sonic...
They didn't. I've seen countless comments across social media where people say Frontiers is the best game since the Adventure titles. Lost World and Forces are basically non-existent to people outside of the fanbase, and rightfully so.
To this day still don't understand why some of the community hates colours now like I can understand colors ultimate cuz it was a piss-poor remaster, but the original was praised. I'm confused 😅
>Bad writing
>Too much 2D in my 3D Boost Sonic game
>Bad writing
>Gimmicky Wisps that only slow the game down
>Bad writing
>Did I mention the bad writing
>Reused bosses, and the bosses themselves aren't that great to begin with
>Can't forget about the bad writing
Mario>>>>>>Sonic@@espurrseyes42
Basically in all short, compared to unleashed(As well as some of the 2000s), it took out what people liked in that game.
I got into Sonic as a kid right at the end of the Dark Age and the start of the Meta Era (so around when Colours was released) and i was pretty immersed in the internet back then so seeing the fandom's opinions switch over the past decade has been pretty weird to say the least since (from what i remember anyway), pretty much every Sonic game besides Shadow, 06 and the night stages in Unleashed were seen as good games. Imo I think these opinion shifts mostly come from whichever era has the most popularity/dominance in the fandom. During the mid 2010s a lot of the Classic fans started shitting on the Adventure/Dark Age games, so from the late 2010s till now, the Adventure/Dark Age fans have been shitting on the Meta Era games. And ofc ur allowed to have opinions outside of whichever era you grew up with (like Unleashed is in my top 3 and I mostly grew up playing Colours and Generations) but based on what I've seen it mostly seems to be whichever era in the fandom has the most dominance
And give it about 10 years or so time and the Meta Era fans (fans of Colors, Gens and Lost World/Forces) will be shitting on the newer stuff.
I've been a Sonic fan for 20 years, since about 2003-ish. I grew up starting with the Classic games in the early 2000's on my model 2 Genesis that we got from my grandparents house. And I definitely remember the late 2000's/early 2010's where everybody was shitting on the Dark Age era of games. Me having watched lets plays and reviews of games like Shadow and Sonic 06 saw exactly what was wrong with them and it wasn't until I played those games did I finally realize why those games were so bad.
@@SpeedyBlur2000 and the cycle continues... im in a weird spot since i grew up with like the last couple dark age games and basically the entirety of the meta era but im really hoping that most of us from that era will end up breaking the cycle since i still remember how sonic fans all just loved sonic during the pre-lost world days
@@SpeedyBlur2000 The meta era took over as recently as 4 years ago. The fact that the Adventure era and Dark era fans got grouped together is funny to me, cause one of these swears by Unleashed and Black Knight, while the other believes nothing after Sonic Heroes exists. Twitter is dominated by meta era fans undeniably. And pretty much every other era of fans doesn't like the meta era, so every time i see Meta getting shat on, its a different fan group getting the blame. Hilarious honestly
Matt’s judgement of Frontiers is so accurate. I’ve felt this way since the initial gameplay came out
good video man
Sonic Adventure was one the first games I've played, and both are my favorite games ever, seeing all the backlash the game had during the 2010s was very sad for me. SA1 may have aged in its cutscenes, or bad collision (SA haters when they find out that almost every early 3D platformer had poor collision), among other things. But for me, the gameplay only got better as I grew up, because I'm mature enough to see the thought put in the game through its design.