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Which QB's HAVE To Get It Done This Year? | Stinkin' Truth Podcast
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- #nfl #lamarjackson #aaronrodgers
Mark Schlereth and Mike Evans continue their QB discussion (Lamar Jackson in particular) and address where some of the misconceptions of Mark's statements may be coming from.
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Yeah, fans of a 2X MVP are suspicious of a dude who wanted him to switch to WR and we are the ones in a cult😅😅😅. Mark was the one in the anti-Lamar cult from the jump.
Exactly. I think it’s unfair for ppl to call Mark a bigot but he opens himself up to more scrutiny for being objective on Lamar when he supported that ignorant Pre draft take of Bill Polian. Mark has acknowledged that Lamar has made vast improvements overall but he’s not going to truly believe Lamar is a top 2 QB until he gets a ring and I’m ok with that
@@truthbearer7891 I think he needs to acknowledge that the early criticism (Lamar should switch to WR, can’t throw etc) was racially-tinged and he fell prey to the nonsense. If he acknowledged that it would go a long way to establish that he’s trying to be objective on this but he hasn’t so…
@@stephenborunda He has such a high opinion of Bill Polian he is going to refuse to believe that could have played a role in the evaluation.
@@truthbearer7891 white GMs have been preventing Black QBs from actually playing QB for literally decades. Racism/racist stereotypes-often intentional but sometimes unintentional-have been involved in that. At this point, there is no doubt that anyone who called for Lamar to switch positions had an agenda and wasn’t an objective evaluating party.
@@truthbearer7891 Objective? Okay. Remember, you asked for it. Remember all those press conferences where QBs were asked to explain all their own play-calls after playoff games? Why not? Lamar's coaches called nothing but RPOs all game putting all decision-making in his hands. This is 100% normal, right?
*Lots of other QBs have* to watch out for the blitz, see tendencies among the 3 levels of the D, notice changes & pick specific plays to counter them all while having their backs turned while dropping back? _Right?_
Andy Reid didn't observe the opposing defenses then scheme 3 TDs based on what he saw, two of them game-winners without which the Chiefs lose two S-Bs? Remember watching all those studies about how Brady called the defenses that kept the Rams to 3 points in the S-B?
*Every other QB in the NFL **_would lose under_** the circumstances Lamar was put in. **_ALL_** of 'em!* Lamar is the _ONLY QB EVER_ to be expected to win when his play-callers abandoned him. If I'm wrong bu all means list all the other QBs forced to call their own plays in any playoff game. It shouldn't be hard. I already listed Mahomes & Brady for you.
You don't remember when Sean Payton, Bill Bellichick & Marv Levy said "why not just wing it & let's see how that goes? You wouldn't _expect any_ QB to have to play without anyone helping them by handling the play-calling yet you use Lamar having none as proof _he_ sucks.
How is it possible to be this un-self-aware?
Lamar Jackson fans remind me a lot of Russell Wilson fans, they just cannot accept that their hero could use some improvement in the pocket. The main component is how much is the QB getting paid? Even Trevor Lawrence now will face more pressure, because he's gotten paid like a top QB.
I'm a Ravens fan. we totally accept that Lamar needs a lot of improvement and mental poise (especially in the playoffs). The issue is Lamar gets crapped on unnecessarily, while other QB's not named Mahomes get all the passes, excuses and positive faith in the world. With Lamar people are saying he will NEVER win. They've already condemned his entire career and he's only 27. that's why.
@@jdajayi92 Is it possible you are a bit biased because Lamar is your guy? QB is a hard position in the NFL, I think a ton of QBs get criticized and memed, but when it's your guy it seems louder.
@@teamdinosaurs999 believe it or not, I was one of the Ravens fans calling for Flacco instead of Lamar during the playoffs when he was a rookie. Typical Baltimore fans are hard on him anyways. CRITICISM is needed. But what Lamar gets is actually called "CHARACTER ASSASSINATION": it's when you condemn or demean any person beyond what is appropriate, not based on merit or logic but irrational dislike.
@@jdajayi92I'm black and a Jags fan. Besides Lamar and Tua I think Trevor Lawrence gets more hate then any other QB in the league. Granted it's alot more warranted but still
@@jdajayi92 Well it slipped my mind, but while Mark says it isn't about race for him, and I obviously believe that... I do understand that for example sometimes people will latch onto a valid criticism and kind of exaggerate it because they are secretly driven by that irrational dislike whether due to race or whatever else. So I guess I could see a situation where the Lamar criticisms are getting fanned excessively because SOME have an alternative agenda in doing so.
I never thought of myself as an LJ fan. Lifelong Chiefs fan, but Stink needs to do some self reflecting if he thinks that Josh Allen doesn't have playoff failures but Lamar does, and the fact that he has 2 MVPs is actually bad compared to Allen? Just say you don't like LJ, has nothing to do with race, but you clearly just don't like him and that's fine.
That’s not true at all! Josh is 5-5 in the playoffs 64.6% com 21tds vs 4picks LJ is 2-4 57% 6 tds vs 4picks
Dude Lamar has 6 playoff td’s, Josh has 21. What part are you not understanding? And Josh’s team wins more playoff games in comparison to Lamar’s 2. Why is this going over your head
@@tjayd1225 most of his stats are from beating up on wild card teams , Lamar doesn’t play those because he gets byes
@@plugcap2604LITERALLY THIS!
I don't recall Allen "developing" Diggs, or Mahomes "developing" Tyreek or Kelce, Cousins "developing" Jefferson. Even Mike Evans was great before Brady came. Should a QB be able to develop receivers play? Yes. Should they be great leaders? Yes (which I think is the real issue). Will everyone be able no? No, there's a reason Brady and Manning are the undisputed GOATS. So, make a trade and get him a prime receiver once and for all. Receivers like D-Hop were on record saying they want to play with Lamar.
Hollywood knew he wasn’t getting his option picked up…. Period
AJ Brown would have been the man
Mark and Mike just have dumb takes
Why doesn’t a premier WR sign in Balt? Cuz they don’t want to play in a run first offense regardless of what they think of LJ. Why do they run that style of O? Because it’s what LJ does best. After welker was cut in Miami and then became all pro slot receiver in NE do you think Brady had anything to do with it? This is fantasy football and if you can’t understand that I can’t help you
@@StinkinTruthPodcast Their are plenty of run first offenses in the league that are still held by great QBs like The Lions and the Niners. And they are usually the most explosive offensives in the league because it's makes way for play action.
There are receivers that went on record that said they would like to play with Lamar but they usually don't get signed. It's takes simple research to do this mark and you're choosing to be stubborn.
Lamar still was one of the most proficient QBs at passing last year when they stop running the ball so much when Greg Roman left
Can Mark address this one question…..the reason Lamar fans and ravens fans are in an uproar about your statement because yall football media analysts rank other QBs like Allen, burrow, some even say stroud or Herbert over Lamar because of playoffs failures. But put higher expectations on him cuz he 2x mvp. Which one is it??? You can’t consistently rank someone lower and than put higher expectations on him than the people you have ahead of him. That shows unfair criticism on a particular player. Winning games is a team award. Winning mvps is an individual award. So if Lamar got 2 mvps and no other QBs other than Mahomes have that type accolade. Why are the media people constantly putting Lamar behind these QBs in their rankings who hasn’t done what Lamar done individually but don’t put higher expectations as they do lamar? That means Lamar should be the consensus and clear cut #2 behind Mahomes no ifs ands or buts
It’s actually a great question and I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I think that most people involved in the NFL believe that at some point, especially in the playoffs a QB has to be able to win from the pocket and because LJ’s game isn’t as traditional as others he gets graded down. As long as traditional QB continue to win Super Bowls there will naturally be a bias or lean to the drop back guys!
Thank you
@@StinkinTruthPodcast Yes I understand the logic but specifically talk about as in rankings. For example from 01-06 Peyton Manning considered 1 or 2 rankings as qb despite haven’t won a Super Bowl but people gave him his respect by putting him 1 or 2 in rankings because of his MVPs. Lamar is in the same boat but disrespect him in rankings. Imagine between 01-06….they were people like McNabb, delhomme, Pennington over manning just because they had better playoff success. That what yall are doing to Lamar
@@marcusfrazier20 you were to spot on with this comment he had to back off
To whom much is given much is expected.
Lamar earned his stripes ain’t nothing given especially for HIM
This is why Cj stroud is going to be a winner in Houston. He is traing that 3 headed monster of wr trio to be in sync to a crazy degree.
Lamar's still a victim of what the Ravens did to him for five years: Stuck him in the Greg Roman offense with bottom 5 WR groups. They never had any intention of maximizing his passing potential or making it top priority. This is the Ravens. The same team that won a Super Bowl when their passing game exceeded expectations, and then traded their best WR 1-2 months later. There's no Deebo and Aiyuk in Baltimore. There's not AJ and Devonta in Baltimore. There's no Chase and Higgins in Baltimore, and last season was Lamar's first season in a real legit NFL level passing scheme. And HE, had to be the one to push for that. Despite playing in a Pro Style passing offense at Louisville, the Ravens (My team) were only concerned with spamming his running ability, because they haven't cared about making the passing game a force since the 90s. You don't spend two first round picks on WRs, only to throw them into the Greg Roman offense, if maximizing your QB's potential as a passer is a priority, or if building the passing game is a priority. You do that, because nobody else will come here. His best WR was a rookie (Zay, last year), he was in a low volume passing offense where the margin for error is smaller, his best TE has gone into two postseasons banged up and barely able to play. AND he had to be the team's leading rusher year after year after year.
It’s because he’s a better running back than he is quarterback. Soon as his legs go he will be a below average arm talent, just as he is now.
@@tyson1954he’s got one of best arms in the league there’s stats behind this 😂
@@tyson1954Actually, in college, Lamar was more accurate than Josh Allen, in a pro style offense, throwing deeper down the field, with just as little surrounding talent.
@@segagenesis7708 Josh Allen had accuracy issues coming out of college and was a big knock on him coming out of the combine. saying that Lamar is more accurate than him in college isn’t anything worth mentioning especially now in the NFL it’s not even close
@@tyson1954 And yet, it was never even suggested by anyone that Josh Allen switch positions. Yet, the guy who played in a Pro Style offense, went through his reads very well for a prospect, had great pocket presence and awareness, whose only real weakness was mechanical, was pushed to change positions and Mark Schlereth (Who I like and who I do NOT think is racist by the way), also made similar suggestions.
Reminder that LJ also gave up a fumble in the AFCC game that would have netted the Chiefs another 7 if Pacheco picked up the 4th and 1 on the Baltimore 13 early in the 1st half. Granted it was a great play by Omenihu to force the fumble but he got away with 1 turnover and still decided to chuck it deep into what might as well have been the Chiefs locker room.
"Hes a great kid " and " he's a great player " but he refuses to say he's a great qb..lol he's said Burrow and allen even baker are great but lamar will never get that become he still thinks he should be a receiver...lol .
Ravens fans it is what it is and honestly there's no need to argue with this guy or his followers because they will feel how they feel about lamar regardless of what he does in the future. Doesn't develop...zay flowres had an outstanding rookie season and that didn't happen just by chance lamar had alot to do with it...Hollywood also put up good numbers.
Lamar has never even been the starter for a single season in the NFL. He has missed a start or more every season SMH
Im not even a Ravens fan and i want them to win a SB so we can stop underrating Lamar.
We never gave Eli Manning credit for winning 2 SB why does Joe Burrow get to be the 2nd best qb for losing a SB?
Lamar has 2 mvps. Right now hes the 2nd best qb behind Mahomes. Peyton had the same playoff struggles to start his career.
Because Eli came into the league acting like a diva when he refused to play for the Chargers and he always lived in the shadow of Peyton. Aaron Rodgers has 4 MVPs and every person you talk to will probably tell you his career was underwhelming given his talent and potential. He's another guy that had all the potential in the world but could never see it through in the big postseason game.
Burrow gets the 2nd best tag because he's the only active QB that has beaten Mahomes in the playoffs, he isn't the reason why his team loses when they lose and he dusts LJ when it comes to post season stats. When LJ is on, he is electric but his "on" moments almost never come when it matters. It also doesn't help LJ's case that it feels like people make excuses for him and move the goal posts when his team comes up short or do this weird shit where they randomly selected him to be the champion of black people in the discussion of race. When pundits and analysts criticize Jalen, Kyler, Russ and Geno nobody has a thing to say but the moment they criticize LJ they're suddenly a racist.
My theory is ppl are biased towards pure pocket QBs and it’s not as many good ones for the first time ever so ppl are desperate to crown one as elite. It took Mahomes getting 2 rings and 2 MVPs before ppl said Burrow was a clear tier beneath him. Ppl had Herbert as elite even when he barley had .500 career record as starter and 0 playoff wins
Great show as always. Mark you don't need anyone to defend you but I have listened to you for years ( many years) and one thing I know is you don't have any racism in you. Plus you genuinely are a very fair man and don't evaluate players on like or not liking, you are always referring to their ability. Mike is the same for you. Have a good one.
To bad Stink had to spend this much time and effort on his take about Lamar! Spelled it out perfectly Mark no bias!
Loving the podcast brother. You think exactly how I do. You're the best Stink.
I appreciate that
As someone who absolutely despises Ravens fans and who feel that Lamar is slightly overrated. I feel like you guys botb have awful takes on Lamar's career and his talent.
I think a lot of people are not listening to what Big Mark is saying about Lamar. He's saying that there is a lot of pressure on Lamar because he is one of the most talented players in the NFL - this is a complement dude. He said he thinks Trevor Lawrence doesn't pass the confetti test - that is an insult. Learn to tell the difference lol.
Thank you
It doesn't sound complimentary.
From a ravens fan, and Lamar fan the frustration aspect comes where everyone grades Lamar as a 2x MVP and says it’s Super Bowl or bust for him. At the same time every power ranking for QB or list that comes out regarding QB people want to rank him below burrow and Allen. It’s a double standard it has to be Super Bowl or bust for those guys too then. Just the way I see it
I don't know why people had such a problem with your take on Lamar. I thought you were spot on. I hyped him up a lot this season because I thought this was going to be the year he finally got it done. He had the number one defense, the number one seed in the AFC, and enough playmakers on offense to get the job done. I don't place all the blame for the AFC championship loss on him, but he didn't play well; and that wasn't the first playoff game where he didn't show up. Lamar has played on some good teams, including a 14-2 team the year he won a unanimous MVP. He's had opportunities to at least make it to a Super Bowl, but he didn't play well enough to win those games. Are we just going to keep blaming everyone but him for these subpar playoff performances. I like Lamar a lot as a person and player, but we have to call a spade a spade; he chokes in the playoffs.
Wes Welker was incredible on the Dolphins as both a wide receiver and kick returner. My brother in law won his fantasy football championship the year Wes Welker joined the Patriots because I told him to draft Wes Welker because he'd put up huge numbers with Brady.
He had 29 catches his first year 67 his second year never had more than 690 yards and he scored one touchdown in two years. I need to start using your definition of incredible.
@@StinkinTruthPodcast The eye test. That's why I specifically mentioned his role as a kick returner on the Dolphins. He was a top tier punt returner who could move when he had the ball in his hands. He just needed a QB to put it in his hands. 2006 Dolphins had Joey Harrington as their starting QB.
Ohhhhh dont worry
Trevor Lawrence after that contract is under the microscope now
That scrutiny is coming
Allen and Herbert BOTH better so something this year or the media should get on they ass.
Lowkey even Burrow, 1 more injury and you got a whole new convo coming his way
But Stink is right Lamar 1,000% NEEDS to start winning in the playoffs.
He needs to get better in the pocket. Taking what the defense is giving you. And he will be lethal
#Lj_era8 will get over the hump just wait.
Mark Schlereth the Champ is not
Races cut the clown talk
He just put fire 🔥 under my guy
LJ bottom parts
Lets get that tittle this year
Ravens all is well
👉🏾💯💪🏽
Mark i apoligize as a ravens fan. Your opinion is yours and i respect and disagree with it. You far from a racist but you got me and many others upset. Good podcast cant wait for the season
He’s definitely not racist just stating facts … it’s been proven … you have to be consistent from the pocket to win a SB.
I like how he says that the way to beat Lamar is make him throw from the pocket but in the AFC championship game Lamar Jackson had 8-10 seconds every time he was in the pocket but it doesn't matter.. When the refs aren't going to call defensive holding or pass interference then you can have all the time in the world you're receivers aren't going to get open.
And yeah here comes the chief's fans saying oh it wasn't pass interference you definitely weren't watching the same game there was at least 4 past interferences that were not called and a whole lot more defensive holding.
People that think he is racist against Lamar have the intelligence of a tennis ball.. Lamar is exciting to watch, wins during regular season but when playoffs come he tightens up
Its so clear that he is that its not even worth mentioning anymore....
Exactly why ODB signed with them .
Man this delusion that Mark Schlereth is a racist is getting old. I have been a huge fan of Mark for years. I value his word more than most. He has been critical of everybody equally. I agreed with him back in the tebow days. Both you fellas are honorable men. Thank you both
Lamar Jackson fanboys accuses anybody who criticizes Jackson that they're just racist.
I'm black, and I've been called racist too, just because I think Jackson is overrated a little.
@@EnterpriseNCC-1701it is ridiculous. Like people haven't had these exact same conversations about plenty of white QBs. Hell, they'll even call white QBs like Rodgers and Brees who have even more accolades than Lamar, and SB rings, playoff chokers.
Thank you it’s much appreciated
@@EnterpriseNCC-1701 That is because they are racists that view everything through race, so they assume everyone else does. Just like the guy who is banging his secretary but comes home and accuses his wife of being a **ore who is banging the neighbour.
I thought the guy's "reason" sounded a little back-door racist at first...
When he calls out that he's not a racist, that kinda sounds to me like well...?
But to be honest, the thing he said about a coaching failure in the AFC Championship game I totally agree with. And unfortunately this is the second time in Lamar's career, he should have been in a superbowl and was thwarted by his own coaches ineptitude !
But it also shows that Lamar isn’t that guy as a quarterback. The gameplan was to show case him as a QB who can win from the pocket, like a top tier QB, he isn’t that. He’s an athlete that is a good QB and you have to use the running game and his athleticism to win against good teams b/c he can’t elevate to the level needed as a true QB.
If you say Bronny James got drafted due to nepotism you're considered racist when Bronny was the worst player on the Lakers summer league team playing against the Sacramento Kings 2nd summer league team.
I think it's not Lamar but the Idea of Lamar . Its a passing league and you have this guy who is very talented but lacks the new idea of the modern QB .
Lamar has played 6 seasons with 2 playoff wins. Burrow has 5 in 4 seasons!
and Burrow has no mvps or a super bowl your point?
Have this same conversation about Josh Allen
I can’t he doesn’t have 2 MVP’s
@@StinkinTruthPodcast yeah but he has the same kind of contract and is on every major platforms list as a better QB. He was also drafted before him with less accolades in college, pretty hard to believe ALL of these things are coincidence's.
Mark should lamar just switch to wr now since he doesn't develop wrs?
Always wondered: what is the logo on Mark’s hat?
Travis Mathew
The conversation has definitely reached a pretty weird stage. Recently saw someone make a "Mount Rushmore" for Raven's players in franchise history and Lamar Jackson was on there with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and Jonathan Ogden. I just asked the question whether Terrell Suggs shouldn't maybe have been included over Lamar Jackson (at this stage of his career) and people went nuts in the replies. Maybe those Zoomers just don't remember how great Terrell Suggs was.
Lamar a 2 time mvp at 27
@@saynomoremedia7463 MVPs are individual achievements, not team achievements.
@@monophthalmos9633 we talking about Individuals correct?
Mt Rushmore is individual achievement so don’t contradict yourself. Lamar is literally on path to be HOFer and at a far more impactful position.
The playoffs are all about boring meat and potatoes football with maybe a TE sideline route a few times a game (The Belichick/Brady Method). In circa 2024, that's what gets the job done, just like KC last year. Fast, smart, tight football....from the pocket. If there's any kind of Montana/Rice action going on, it's a spoof. The rules and coverage measures have changed, the long ball is typically only yards after carry with guys like Tyreek Hill. Again...smart, fast, tight. All the other stuff will fade come conference time.
Again.. 5x MVP and 2x Super Bowl champ Peyton Manning 2-4 in his first 6 playoff games
Josh is better then lamar and plays better in the playoffs then lamar does josh has a better playoff record
Manning > Brady
What many don't realize is that Brady learned from Manning by watching him run the offense when New England played Indy during thier rivalry years. Not going into long detail but Brady had to convince Bellichick to let him audible at the LOS when Manning was the master at it. If you watch the Patriots offense during, I think the 96 or 97 playoffs, you'll see Brady always watching Manning operate when he was on the sidelines ( Brady usually sits and studies defense coverages on the sidelines) and you'll see the Patriots rarely audible out of set plays on offense before and at that time.
2. It's not Aaron Rodgers fault he has only one Chip. That's the legacy of the Green Bay Packers. Bart Starr= 1, Brett Favre= 1, Aaron Rodgers=1 and if and when Jordan Love wins his, it'll most likely be his only =1 . Green Bay Legacies.
3. Lamar will be elite, if he isn't already this year. Stink feels like poking a bear?? 😂 Lamar has improved his passing accuracy every year. So it'll be interesting how he responds. Also expecting a elite year from Cousins( NFC South), Aaron Rodgers ( AFC East) and Deshaun Watson(AFC North). Book it.
I don’t often see pro quarterbacks improve year on year but that is what Lamar has done. If his passing improves again this year, with his running ability Baltimore will be hard to beat.
Cousins I don’t see doing anything he hasn’t already done. Rogers won’t see another SB. Watson, I can’t put my finger on it, something is wrong with him. Very athletic so maybe his head isn’t quite where it needs to be.
@evilsimeon Spot on about Baltimore. They might be the Chiefs kryptonite.
Cousins has more weapons than he's ever had in his career. Atlanta has..omg! Kyle Pitts as his TE, Drake London, Bijuan Robinson in the backfield AND the flat ( bc he CAN catch). With the Vikings, he only had Justin Jefferson and an ok running game. I'd like to see how Hockensen does w/o Kirk. Did Kirk make him or is he the real deal?? ( even though coming off an ACL)
Watson, whom Denver should've gotten when he said he wanted to go to Denver, will be fine. His first year he was suspended then had to shake off some rust. His second year, he had a shoulder injury that needed surgery. Being a Bronco fan from Houston, I can assure you Watson looked alot like himself more so the second year than the first. This year SHOULD be his bounce back.
@controversialcardchannel you're seriously either trolling or don't have an IQ above a cucumber if you believe that stupid shit. Peyton Manning is the 2nd greatest QB of all time behind Brady. Brady > Manning and I can back that up with facts and not hypotheticals and opinions. I don't have time for bush league lazy analysis perpetrated by casuals and fanboys.
Lamar fans are delusional. He's the 10th best QB because he can't pass consistently. His MVP's are a media award and mean nothing when he shouldn't have won last year anyways. Lamar is not a hall of famer. 2 playoff wins in 6 years....
Go old Racist agenda
Will russel wilson be the best boxer in the nfl this year?
Haha
@@StinkinTruthPodcast😂😂😂
Mark is becoming just as Karen Rodgers , talking too much with his rear for click bait, and now Marks tone is different because he got the tag 🏷️ of being racist
My tone has never changed in regards to how I feel about LJ now my tone does change when I address idiot fans who are unwilling to listen to sound football principles