Here's Why the Marshall JCM800 Vs JCM900 Debate Is DUMB!
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- The Marshall JCM 800 vs. the JCM 900. The argument is silly because it ignores some important details about both amp lines. I discuss and and present a guitar amp comparison.
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The jcm800 and jcm900 are two distinct product limes form Marshall Amplification. Or are they? When debating the features of these two product lines there is often an important distinction that is ignored. The Marshall 2203 is a popular version of this amp and has been reissued with some modern appointments of ths lead series guitar amp. The Marshall jcm 900 is often given a rough ride. Often for the wrong reasons. The Marshall jcm 900 high gain dual reverb 50 watt amp is a fixture in my home studio and delivers some great tones. My jcm 900 is modified, I discuss this modification and compare it to the Marshall 2203 reissue.
More Info about these amps:
www.long-mcquade.com/
JCM 800 2203RI:
www.long-mcquade.com/17682/Gu...
JCM 900 4100:
www.long-mcquade.com/17686/Gu...
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Index
00:00 - Start
00:54 - Introducing the 800 vs 900
02:14 - The reason some don't like the JCM900
03:37 - Recording Setup
04:42 - Amp Features
05:33 - Clean Tones
07:27 - Boosted Clean Tones
09:03 - High Gain Tones
11:05 - JCM 800 and JCM 900 Blended
#marshallamps #jcm900 #jcm800
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I’m older so my first Marshalls didn’t have master volumes. I was thrilled when the 800 series was released. I owned a slew of them, preferring the 2204. The 2203”s were not consistent. Some were overly bright and clean. Could be tubes, bias but I know Marshall was making changes. The 2204’s were unchanged and more consistent. Unfortunately I didn’t keep any of them. When I tried to go back prices were insane so I went the 900 route. I had several 4500’s and also the covenant single channel 2100. They’re not bad but completely different than the 800’s. The 800’s just sounded massive, bigger lows with great harmonic content. The 900’s were a bit muddy turned up. Under the fingers they feel very different. I think that bothered me the most. Take an 800 over a 900 every time.
You are right, they are very different amps. And it's common if you came up on the 800 to not like the 900 as much. however I encounter just as many fns (almost) of the 900. That's what I love about amps!!
@@LonelyRocker Agree. I do like the JCM 2000 DSL 50 watt heads. Those are a closer to my ears to an 800. I played them side by side once and was able to dial in a crunch tone remarkably close. Controls were set vastly different. Dialed in the 800 first.
This pretty much is what I always felt, too. 800s feel different, very immediate attack and response, and a sound you can actually feel moving in the air. Playing 900s always felt like they would be in the room next door. In the end, I discovered the 1987 50 Watt Plexi to be my favourite Marshall. That thing just slays.
Ok Plexi. Unfair comparison 😂
Are you Mick Mars?
Well presented and well said. I've still got the diodes in mine,
Some power tubes don't give as much bottom end . Can I ask what's in your 900 ?
What's your recommendation ?Brown base Tesla are in mine.
Thanks! I've had Groove Tubes in there for quite some time in the power section. I believe the preamp tubes are Tung-Sol....I changed around some of the tubes and really couldn't tell much of a difference to be honest. I have a video on my channel where I opened up the 900 and changed a tube...
@@LonelyRocker Good morning brother thanks, 22 years I've been scratch building amps, I was thinking you may have tried all the el34s out there . I can only get svets, Mullards, EH, tung sols , Sovtek ,Groove tubes, and JJs, all new production tubes. Most of these come from the same factory, the groove tube el34s are Chinese I believe. I was enquiring what tubes you thought was the best for bottom end . Some tubes are okay...some are crazy fabulous, going 6ca7 or kt77 is also on my mind 💭
@@ianbrown4386 Honestly, I love tube amps but I don't really mess with the tubes themselves. I record DI and use IRs and I tweak the tones in mix. It gives me everything I need. The few times I tested different tubes I really didn't notice much off a difference. At least not enough for what I can overcome in mix...cheers!
@@LonelyRocker I see where your at mate, all good , 👍
How did you get the fretboard on that Les Paul so shiny??? Great video!
Easy! It’s not a Les Paul. Howard Roberts Fusion with an ebony fretboard. Thanks for watching!
@@LonelyRocker Oh ok I didn't notice the sharp cutaway and through body strings....still one of the shiniest Ebony fretboard's I've ever seen. My Les Paul has an ebony fretboard but yours is supreme shiny
I had a JCM900 in the early 2000’s that my dad bought for me. I didn’t like it that much because I really wanted to have a 5150, but nowadays, I regret getting rid of that thing.
Ahhh the one that got away...it's a common story :)
Ha I traded my 5150 in early 90’s for a 900 … I loved that 900
There’s no debate. 900 is cheaper and honestly superior. The 900 has channel selection and that’s huge. I put el34 tubes in my 900 and it rocks just as much as any 800. At half the price and more options the 900 wins. The right tubes in the 900 wins 😛. Slightly less bottom end but it’s barely noticeable.
Love when 900 fans step up! This debate rages on! Thanks for you input 😎👍🏼🎸
Dude it sounds nothing like an 800. I have a 900 DR el34's stock,. I can't sound like an 800 the entire pre-amp is op-amps get's it gain from the op-amps which is Solid State then on top of that is the diodes. 800 pre amp pure tube. 900 has no low end unless put EQ in loop. Doesn't have the punch of an 800 and it not as bright of an amp. It's a darker tone. Still sounds great but alike to an 800? NO way.
They do sound close in this comparison… 😅
@@JBGoode-zx7pp😂Yes they do sound close in this video but in real life most 900 sound harsh, and that's coming from me, a DSL player 😮
@@JBGoode-zx7pphe explained why his sounds closer to the 800 because he took out the diodes.
Man that's a cool intro at 4:41 you sound like an announcer giving specs of the teams before an extreme type of event! Haha idk if that makes sense, instant sub!
Haha. Funny. I’m a little self conscious about my voice but I have A TV production background so I always seem to make segments like that. Glad to have you here. Thank you!
Doesn't the silver jubilee amp have the diode clipping too? People love those, but not the 900? Also, is the 900 a good pedal platform kind of amp?
You’re right. Many Marshall models have diode clipping. The 900 just gets a bad wrap. The 900 is an amazing pedal platform. Especially through the clean channel. That’s where I dial most of my tones.
@@LonelyRocker Good to know. Thanks.
In addition to the diode clippings the 900 pre-amp is all Op-amps. Meaning is a big solid state pre-amp. Unlike other Marshall's are pure tube pre-amps. The Jub is pure tube with Diodes. So it's different hence why they are loved. the 900 DR gets a bad rap for a reason. But i don't think in this day and age it matters like it did in the 90's.
@@guitarexpert2245 thanks for that info! I haven't played a real jubilee yet, but I've been spending some time with UA's plugin. I really like the cleanish sounds I can get from that amp. I'd love to try the real thing. Also interested in the new 20 watter.
Also the JCM 800 Split Channel amps is tube only with clipping diodes. Nothing like the 900 DR.
The tones sound killer in this video! I have a modded JCM900 100 watt Dual Reverb. I had it modded when it was time to change the capacitors in it. I didn't like the change of tone and the fizziness when I switched between the A and the B channel. I had my buddy do a mod to tame the treble and I wanted the B channel to sound like the A channel but with a lot of gain. He succeeded with the mod and I love the fullness of the B channel with all of the gain.
Thanks! Love the concept of your mod. I’m sure it sounds awesome!
I have a chance to pick up a JCM 900 4500
in mint condition for under $800. I only play in my music room which is kind of smallish. Too much amp or can you control the volume and still get a decent sound?
The beauty of this amp is it has separate master outs for each channel. So you can push the gain but back off on the master. Good for your use case.
@@LonelyRocker I picked up the 900 for $725. It's in mint condition. I see there are web sited that seem dedicated on slamming the amp.
Congrats! The 900 has its haters but it is its own amp. There are many fans too. Push a boost or overdrive into the clean channel and then come back to me 😎
I currently have and am a 800 lover, that being said I think the 900 4100/4500 is a great amp in its own right. I had a 4100 for a while and found the bottom to be thin at times. A trick for that is to use the fx loop or a jumper cable and set the mix to around 11:00. I don’t play much cleans but loved the clean channel as well
Thanks for the tips! I find it's a great recording amp. Since I go direct and I had it modded it's become a real workhorse in my studio...
The fx loop trick is real. It does thicken it up in a very nice way. Seems to add low mids.
Quick question? Just put a jumper cable between the effects send and return? Thanks
Beautiful guitar and sweet playing.
I never knew about Diode Clipping till I saw people arguing online.
I had a JCM800 4211 combo a looong time ago, I mainly used the Clean channel with pedals.I since found out that it had an extra tube gain- stage after the diode clipping too.I loved it anyway.'Split Channel' that I never used fully.
All I know is that I loved the amp.
I have a Silver Jubilee combo from 1987 which I totally love but also gets berated for the diode clipping.
Although I understand people..and discerning taste is good but there are many ways to write a song and record it.Ya know that !
Thanks so much!!! Diode clipping gets a bad rap. Mainly from people that don’t understand it. Amp manufacturers are always tweaking their circuits to refine the tones of their amps. I always loved the sound of my 900 through cabs. It just sounded different to me when listening direct. I did the mod just to try it. Thanks for watching!
Anyone bring up using the low sensitivity input on the 800 for cleans?
This is the first I’m seeing it mentioned…I think….
wow you really got a great high gain 900 tone. What IR is that? I mean what cab is it emulating?
Thanks!! I think I used the Friedman 4x12 G12 DynIR form Two Notes...
Great vid. I've owned or played through all of the amps mentioned. One thing I'll add is the 800s are better pedal platforms, the 900 featured is very bright for this. Maybe its better with the diode removed though.
I agree. I only had that 800 here for a week. Would have loved to test all of my pedals through it but I know it’s a great pedal platform. The 900 did lose some top end harshness when I had the diode removed. Thanks for your thoughts!
This is the second time I heard a riff of yours that I wish I wrote. Will you release an album already🤣 It's so refreshing to hear someone who actually knows the importance of the bass staying on the root at the right time 😂
Ha! Thank you. Someone else told me this week I should do an album. I'd love to if I ever get the time. But I'm writing the album one riff at a time for this channel :)
not sure if anyone mentioned it here but a good work around with the JCM900 instead of modding is to CRANK the gain on the clean channel to max and then use that as your crunch channel. To me it sounds more like a "classic" Marshall that way and if I am not mistaken it bypasses the diodes since they are only in the channel two signal path.
I'm a volume knob guitar guy, so single channels are my preference at the end of the day really though.
You are 100% right. I think I mentioned I use the clean channel more. And you are right again. The clipping diode circuit is only in channel B. But that clean channel is killer. Especially driving it with a boost. Very underrated amp....
The 4500 gain stage is mostly based on Op-amp and diodes clipping. The Tone stack is completely different also. It think, as a lot of people was inputing a boost pedal in the 800, that Marshall wanted to reproduce that kind of sound. In the 4500, only one triode is use to create the overdrive, the rest is gain staging between Op-amp. The preamp is more close to the first Valve-State series then to a 800.
Thank you for your insight!
This is correct. I don’t understand the fixation and whining about the diode clipping in the 4100/4500s when really the preamp gain staging and tone stacks are almost nothing like a 2203/2204 circuit. The diode clipping is probably 10-15% of the overall tonal profile, maybe less. It isn’t the deciding factor in the different sounds between the two circuits, not by a long shot. If more people understood the circuits of these amps they’d realize it’s honestly kind of silly to compare them because they’re so dissimilar. Either way both amps sound awesome, just very different ways of getting there in the preamp section.
Your correct. I bought one 3 weeks ago from Guitar Center a mint 93 el34's to test out of curiousity. Was going to replace my 2000 with the 900 but have concluded the 900 is better than expected but the 2000 just has... more. Much more punch, so much more low end, sounds more organic, clean channel is richer. So i'm sadly returning the 900 tomorrow can't afford to keep both. If i could afford to I would keep it. But it's definitly a different flavor of a Marshall for sure. I do however have an SL-X which I'll keep forever.
@@K707OR30 I concur with everything you wrote. So much Mis information out there.
@@K707OR30 And also people complain about it, and then go and put an OD Pedal with Op Amps or Diodes in the circuit lol
did you really test those amps , I can see the power switch was in the on position but I don't see a shining red light , maybe I miss something but for me it looks like the amps where never powered up.
Of course I did. I shot some extra shots after I did the tests. Maybe I screwed up somewhere? I’ll have to go back and check 😂😂😂. But both amps were recorded for this video. 100%
I picked up a 900 50 watt High Gain Master Volume and it absolutely rips. I don’t particularly care for the diode distortion so I keep the secondary gain stage at zero and run a tube screamer. I usually have the preamp almost completely dimed and the master dimed 100% and it shreds. Awesome amp. I got a matching 1960A cabinet with old G12T-75 speakers and I couldn’t be more happy with it. The speakers seem to help smooth out the screaming middle that the JCM and tube screamer put out. I’m playing hardcore punk / thrash metal.
Sounds sweeeeet!!!!
Great video. I've never understood all the hate for 900s. I have a 91 50W Dual Reverb that I've had since about 96 and it's my favorite amp. I also have an 800, a Rectifier, and a 5150 III and the 900 is my first choice most of the time. It sounds awesome in a mix.
Thanks!! I agree, it's a great amp. Very flexible. It got a bad rap that stuck to it but it is indeed a very flexible amp. I think it hung around the brand new 800 quite well. You can grab these at a pretty good price. Good score for the money....
@@LonelyRocker I had a second one for a while, but stupidly let it go. If I come across another one in the wild, I'm probably going to do what you did and mod it to remove the diode clipping and see how it sounds by comparison. Or, if I come across an SL-X, I would snap that up in a heartbeat as well.
@@mikelovesguitars402 I'm actually interested in an SL-X. Maybe time for some bargain hunting ;)
@@LonelyRocker I've seen them on Reverb, but I haven't found any out in the wild in at least 15 years. Somebody must be hoarding them somewhere... 😁
I play Hard Rock/Heavy Metal/Classic Rock. I've had both amps. They are both good amps. I have to side with the 900. I like having two channels and more gain. With the 800 I had to have an overdrive pedal in front of it. If I didn't it didn't have enough gain period. The 900 has more then enough gain and you have two channels to go back and forth on the fly. The reverb on the 900 is good to have as well. I just barely have that on with a little delay for effects. I still have that amp to this day. I bought it back in 1992.
Nice to hear some positivity about the 900. Some 800 fans feel the need to bash it. Which is generally related to the type of music they play. Thanks for sharing!
smart person.
I have both types: 4104 and an SLX. Very similar. The 6 knob stock 4104 (2204 in combo form) sounds louder and more open than the 900. The SLX ( 8 knob head thru same speakers in combo) has more overdrive on tap but sounds more compressed and not as bright or loud. Both were spec'd with a meter at same db. Your ears will perceive the open brighter amp as louder. Funny how so many say they prefer the 800's and then throw an overdrive or distortion pedal in the front which mimics the 900. At the end of the day, whatever makes you want to play and can deliver your tone is all that matters.
Totally agreed. And thanks for your insight!
I think I prefer the 800 overall, great sounding amp. By the way that Howard Fusion guitar is flipping beautiful.
Keep these awesome videos coming, lonely rocker!!
Thanks so much kind brothah 🤪🤪🤪
i think its not the amps its more about which speakers do you use in combination with g12m greenback they both will sound more plexi style for modern tones both amp with uk made v30 what i was found out was that the typical 800 speaker the g12-65 or new g12-65 heritage is but evry idot use the g12t75
No doubt that speakers shift your tone than pretty much anything else...
Been playing my JCM900 SL-X since '96. It is the center of my tone, and I love it. Play the amp that gives you the tone you want/love/need. Great video BTW.
Thanks so much and glad you found your tone!
I run a JCM 900 4500 DR and i too had the diode clipping removed. Cleans are great but the gain is much better with the diode circut removed vrs what it used to be. Im happy with it and its the center of my sound i produce.
Nice!! Glad to meet another satisfied modified!! I enjoy that amp too!
The consistency problem is probably tone stack value screw ups at the factory. Marshall is pretty notorious for the schematic saying one thing and the value of a component being something else. Not always a big deal. But if you have a LPF or HPF and the value of the capacitor is supposed to be .1uF and someone puts in a .01uf or a 1uf, it completely changes the crossover frequency value of the filter and it’s gonna sound different from all the other ones they did “right.”
That's a long way to say poor qc.
I have played a 900 with diode clipping for many years and was extremely pleased with it. If you want to get the amp´s harshness under control, just use a cab with Celestion Classic Lead 80 speakers and you are done amd set for any classic rock sound you want. Fantastic sound without anything to complain about. I suspect that many of the guys criticising the 900 haven´t even played one.
I agree...some hate it on principle. And agreed, pair it with the right cab and you're rocking!
Pre amp tubes make a huge difference in tone. Swapping tube positions and brands make a world of difference! Great video btw!
Thanks! I want to get a bunch of tubes in here to put that to the test...one of these days!!!
@@LonelyRocker great idea! Cheers!
Cheers!
So true. I went through a long phase where I was buying different 12ax7s for some Hafler rack preamps until I found the ones that sounded best to me. Tung-sol, Mullard, Sylvania, RCA, JJ, Sovtek, a brief list of what were available. The W's used to be lame, but there were these few batches of 12ax7lps tubes that were produced around 2000 which were exceptional. I bought as many as I could find, and they're still making me smile.
Tubes are not EQs, they just amplifies the signal. Some are louder, some have more gain or tend to clip sooner but they are not supposed to change the tone and so they do not!
It's the same BS with "tone wood" on solid body electric guitars.
Some even believes that paint changes tone. 🤦♂
I remember using a 900 wit 6L6's for some time, it's hybrid Fender/Marshall sound was really great!. I also owned a JCM 800 and I can tell you , it was a beast!!! Nothing like the one you have there!
I think they are both great amps and do what they need to. It just comes down to the needs of the track. Both are fun!
So when recording this way the power tubes do nothing so are you using the amp as just a preamp?
No, you are using the full amp, power and preamp. The load box takes the place of the speaker and you can choose a speaker digitally via speaker impulse responses. But you are using the FULL amp head this way. I have a ton of videos about this process on my channel so check them out...
@@LonelyRocker oh cool thanks
...or you can just use that Revv 120 in the background on the G4 (red) channel. J/k I love my Marshall, but Im a huge fan of what Revv is doing... (Or was that a D20?)
It's actually a G20...LOVE REVV...featured them a lot on this channel and there will definitely be more REVV content soon!
@@LonelyRocker Subscribed! And will go find those videos... Thank you, bro.
Awesome!! Thank you!
The 900 is so underrated! I played one in a post rock band in the 2000's and it sounded great. The next time melodic punk/garage rock comes back to the mainstream the price of these are going to go through the roof (assuming modeling amps haven't taken over by then).
It really is. It deserves more credit. I did a follow up on this and featured my 900...check it out: ua-cam.com/video/RfbTnsBRtHk/v-deo.html
grunge is already coming back. Check out Narrow Head.
My solution for the JCM 800/900 debate is, post-2003 (04 or later) JCM 2000, crunch channel with a boost ($1000 used)
hello from Ottawa LR, I used to be loyal to Steve's music but I've recently switched over to Long n McQuade for some pretty obvious reasons, haven't looked back since, thumbs up for this video 👍
Sounds like you got it covered! Hello from Toronto! Thanks for stopping by!
Worth noting though the clean on the 800 would be vastly different if you rolled back volume and had the pre gain up as the bright cap would be less present.
Yes. I wanted to keep the comparison balanced. But using that amp I would definitely ride my volume knob.
@Lonely Rocker yeah that's understandable, just wanted to remind people that the cleans on an 800 can actually be very nice
@@jameseberhard7457 No doubt! thanks for your input!
I had the 900 and sold it, it really felt like the drive was coming from a pedal, and from what you say I wasn't so wrong...Sold it and went back to the JCM 2000 DSL 50 that the drive channel sounds more pure and full to the ear for me...
Great video , ive always heard bad things about the 900, but lately thats changing.
Thanks so much!! There is a lot you do with that amp. It is its own thing. It's not trying to be an 800. Just another flavour. thanks for checking it out! :)
Yes they are both cool I love marshalls its like coming home if I play them these are my amps. I‘ll try to emulate the JCM 800 sound on an JVM 410 to see if it functions.Very informative thanx🤘🏿
My pleasure! The 410 is a great amp. I have that one on my list.
Great vid Dan! I have a JCM 900 and love the sound, especially with my 800 4x12 cab. It’s a beast!
Awesome! Glad you enjoyed this. Love my fellow 900 fans. Rock it!
I paid $200 for my 900 4500. I like the sound of the 800 a little more but there's no way it's worth paying $2k for 5% "better" tone.
Wow! What a steal!
My first 'proper' amp at 19 yrs old was a 900 SL-X (2100) and 1960A. I was pretty clueless, I'd started playing in the 90s during the era of small multi-fx floor processors and didn't really understand massive tube amps, channels, gain structure, etc. In order to maintain my regular 'super clean + high gain metal' setup I ended up running my Digitech RP-7 into the front with the pre amp gain turned as low as I could get it and the master turned up to get it as loud as I could. I couldn't understand why I wasn't getting a good sound out of it! 😂After figuring out I really wanted two channels, I eventually ended up selling it a few years later and moving on to other stuff.
I'm sure we all have stories like that. When I was gigging back in the 90s with my 900 I bought a solid state preamp and pushed that into the front of the 900..I had NO CLUE what I was doing!!!! But we all have to start somewhere!!! :)
Above it all, that's some great piece of music you've put together✌
Thanks so much!! I should probably finish it :)
I think if you want to compare the 900 to the 800 you should do it with a 2205 or 2210. The 2203/4 are a completly different concept of amp that should be treated as such. I mean, you wouldn't compare a 1988 Mustang GT to a 2005 Ford GT , would you?
I compared what I had on hand...it wasn't a shootout as Is aid in the video. Just showing viewers the difference...not the similarities...They are very different amps and I said so in the video...
Shove a patchcable in the FX-Loop of a 900 (all models) , set the sensitivy to the loudest setting and you have a kick-ass amp.
I used to own a Model 2100 Dual Master Volume MkIII (the original 900).
I didn't care it had diodes... It sounded killer.
Interesting....I'll have to try that! Thanks!
@@LonelyRocker I didn't mean to say the loudest position. What I meant was there is a sweet spot.
Love my 900 mkiii. I have a Laney AOR that is in that 800 area but modded. Both great amps!
Nice combo! I just did a dedicated video on the 900. Check it out! The Marshall JCM900: Is The Hate Justified?
ua-cam.com/video/RfbTnsBRtHk/v-deo.html
I use my JCM800 Combo with an attenuator. Love it. Had it since the mid 80s. Reliable and always sounds great.
Classic combo for sure!
I had a 900 for years (4501) and loved it. But they're two very different amps when cranked.
You nailed it..very DIFFERENT amps...I think that ends the debate. And I get equally as many lovers of the 900s in the comments as I do haters...it rages on! Thanks for watching :)
It gets even murkier in the realm of heavy metal type tonea. Style acounts for some much, especially with all the boost pedals used. People on forums never seem to take this into account.
VERY VERY good point....so true!
Yes, you set up a tone for your own ears, but everyone hears it differently. I think a great component of style is the harmonic content created as well as pickup choice etc. You have to have a decent guitar and amp, but after that it's all in your hands.
My first "real" tube amp was a JCM 900 (100w dual reverb). I had grown up around friends during the 800 hey-dey, but knew from day 1 that this was a different amp. Sure the master volume plays into it, but I have never plugged into an 800 that sounded remotely similar to the 900. The 900 always struggled to sound like anything more than a Marshall wannabe. I never thought that I would sell my first real Marshall, but ultimately realized that it wasn't the real deal and moved on. I have a Splawn showing up next week, so hopefully that fits the itch.
It’s true. If you want an 800 a 900 won’t cut it. Vice versa I guess. Let me know how the new amp works out!
I have a Python Covered Quick Rod & a Competition. Love the Competition just a little more.😉
Hmm, I have a JCM 900 4502 I’ve been using live for over 30 years now. I’ve replaced the pots on it at least twice, some of them 3 times. The PCB boards on it are excellent. I’ve gone through numerous sets of tubes, replaced the filter caps and changed the speakers out several years ago. I’m a little disappointed that your video doesn’t show how “clean” this amp can get. It’s as good as my fender 68 DRRI, I suppose that’s more about the guitar and player. If you’re just playing hard rock, then the JCM 800 is your amp. But if you’re a serious player, working numerous genres of music (rock, country, blues) I’d say that 900 is a pretty damn good amp to accomplish that. I’ll see you all from the stage.
I actually LOVE the clean channel on my 900...I'm surprised too that I didn't spend more time on that. I've been thinking of doing a dedicated video on the 900..maybe that will surface sometime soon!
Got a 900 4100 back in 98. I didnt know too much about tube amps, but one i got was on sale, and got a good price for it. I play 80s metal and use the boss metal zone in return jack. Sounds way better.
It’s a great amp. And definitely it’s own thing. Keep enjoying it!
The JCM 900 high gain dual reverb is the successor to the 2205 & 2210 JCM 800 amps. The JCM 800 you have is a 2203 or 2204, it’s successor was the JCM 900 High Gain MK III, all similar in sound but different circuits
Thanks for the insight!
I have a '93 JCM 900 4100 DR & '87 JCM 800...both 100 watts. I try for a classic Metal tone and prefer the 900 because it has more gain and effects loop for soloing boost. The 800 definitely needs a boost pedal or it just sounds too dull w/ not enough gain for my taste.
Your comment hilights perfectly how we all chase what suits our ear and taste. It’s not about what’s better. It’s about what works for us. Cheers!
Two flavours of outrageousness. What's not to like?
800 or 900 ?
Answer: Yes!
That’s the spirit! 😎🤘🏽🎸
I've never tried a 900 but have owned a few 800s and the 2210 is my favorite. I never cared about the diode clipping. I use a distortion with it anyway. To me its a great huge sounding amp. I also own a 2203x which is also a very good sounding amp.
This 900 is a different thing. The 800s are classics. All different tasty flavours :)
@@LonelyRocker it does seem to have a 90s sound. Would you say? I remember they were everywhere then.
@@ericandrews1661 That’s what many say. But I actually love driving a boost or overdrive into the clean channel. I think that’s where the amp shines. And having two distinct channels is useful.
@LonelyRocker they all have a unique sound. And I agree with you on the channels I have a jvm that has 2 identical channels that you can use to compare and tweak
Nice. Debates on amps are silly. It’s all personal taste. Some play live. Some record. There’s no black and white. I may do a deeper dive on the 900 as a recording tool. And I have other amp content in the pipeline. Stay tuned!
I have 2 JCM 800’s. And two 900’s. Also, a 50 watt SLX which is an 800 with an extra preamp tube. Killer amp !
You’ve got it covered! 🎸😎🤘🏽
Input signal is everything with both. Boost, Drives, Comps, EQs... what ever floats your boat.
Still using a 1990 900 since new. Clean channel all the way.
My rig has morphed so many times over the years and that 900 is always up for it.
I love that clean channel in the 900 and others have commented about that too. It’s a great amp. Even before and after in modded it 😜
@@LonelyRocker Yeah, to me the 2nd channel was kinda market driven and suited to it's era, I guess. I have a gun tech, he doesn't like the diodes much. Thought for some time about mods for the 2nd channel.
But kinda don't wanna mess with a future classic 🤔Maybe the diode thing is the simple answer, assume it's easily reversible, would like to know if there are other thoughts on this.....better diodes??
I’m not an amp tech but my understanding is the diode stage is simply bypsssed, not removed. So if you have it done just clarify this saying you’d like the option to reverse it.
Man, I would love to hear a 900 w/the diode clipping….side by side with one w/diode clipping removed…..🤘🏼
Me too!! I have a ton of recordings of my amp before I modded it but without a direct comparison...same guitar, pickups, levels etc it wouldn't say too much. I should have planned better :)
Yet another reason why they can be so different, that JCM 900 4500 most likely has 6L6/5881's right? And the JCM 800 2203 has El34's. I have a JCM 900 4100 built in 1992 so it still has the EL34's and sounds light years different than the same amps built a year later with the 6L6/5881 tubes. I've had it modded but did not bypass the diode "trickery" in the front end., and now it sounds like a JCM 2555 (Jubilee) which also has that same Diode trickery in the front end, but doesn't get the hate the 900's got. But, I love my 900 after the mods (be Jens Kruse)
Nice! I'm not sure what mine has. I'll have to crack it open again. Though it was re-tubed a couple of times so who knoes!
@@LonelyRocker there are kits you can buy to get it from the 6L6 config to the EL34 config with some slight bias adjustments of course. But the 6L6 tubes sound pretty damn good too, it’s just different from my 800. People are just mad because of change it’s silly yes it sounds different but it still sounds great
I appreciate your thoroughness but having to get to halfway into the video before hearing a sound demo is a long time. It would be a good idea to find a way to restructure the video's script so we get to it faster.
Thanks for your constructive feedback. I have noticed I do that sometimes. I get into the geeky stuff early then get to the tones. I realize many just want to hear some tones and move on. I have been actively trying to flip that mentality. Your input is very much appreciated!
Dave Friedman said the 900 has solid state preamp or something that is different ...of course they sound similar but he explained it...they are different in some way ...i actually like both ...but maybe it was diode clipping in the preamp somewhere
It’s definitely not a solid state preamp. It’s all tube. A number of Marshalls have diode clipping too. Just different circuits. Some models of the 800 had diode clipping. As amp manufactures do they just keep tweaking their circuits.
@@LonelyRockerThe preamp in the 900 DR is mostly OP amps so it’s not an all tube circuit. Check a schematic of it and you’ll see.
Cool video man!
Digging into the archives. Thanks man!
Nice presentation, clearly shows differences.
Thanks!
I have the 2203x and really like the low gain input. Pedals sound amazing into it.
A classic for sure!
@@LonelyRocker The 900s are used by some of my favorite guitar players, and to be honest, an 800 on its own doesn't achieve that heavy heavy distortion. I always boost mine, even in the high gain input.
@@hereonmars I think that's one of the great things about the 800. It can be so many things because it's an awesome pedal platform. Simply pushing it with a boost is magic.
I have a 1982 JCM 800 MKII 2304 50 watt. With a booster it sounds awesome. The problem I have is its useless as a "home" amp. 1 or lower it sounds terrible. 1 or higher and its just too damn loud. I use a JCM 900 MKIII 2500 and its a more user friendly amp. Sounds good at any volume and has an effects loop. I also have a JCM 2000 TSL. While all three amps in my opinion are fantastic when used properly. The 800 sounds awesome with the least amount of tweaking. Guitar, booster and head turned loud. Thunderous roar that just sounds natural with no grainy hiss. The 900 sounds the most unique to me compared to the 800 or 2000. The 2000 can sound a lot like the 800 however no matter what I do the tubes run at nuclear temperatures. I have replaced the mainboard, biased serval times and used a few different tube sets, but seriously its SUPER HOT. The other amps can run four hours on end and just get very warm but nothing concerning. The 2000 makes me nervous.
See, you've found the perfect solution. Multiple amps!!! Brilliant!!! I can get onboard with that!! :))))
The A channel of the 41/4500 rules. Might be my favorite Marshall sound. It's like a more refined 800. Cranking the master is key. The compression is prefect. The B channel suffers from not having its own EQ. I use the 900 mostly like a single channel amp.
I likely use that clean channel more. I totally agree. But I dig in to the high gain channel when recording. It serves me very well. For live it would suffer with just the one EQ. That much I agree...
@@LonelyRocker My preferred method is boosting the A channel. Any overdrive pedal will have a tone knob - that right there gives you more control than switching to the B channel for boost. I see this amp as having two selectable preamps in one box as opposed to it being a true channel switching amp. You gotta pick a channel and dial it in. Like you said, in the studio it doesn't really matter that much.
Your A method is predominantly what I also do with this amp...for high gain I just got something new. Stay tuned to the channel!! :)
The 900 is my favorite and i don't really have a good reason. The Marshall with the most options in tone imo is the JVM. Great head.
You don’t need a reason! JVM is on my “to acquire” list 😎🤘🏽🎸
both amps in stock form the 900 is better. But if you do the correct mods to the 800 nothing beats it
It's a debate with no end. Both great amps for what they do....
When it comes to Indie Rock and Cali/Skate Punk actually think the 900(4100) is the best Amp for the job, its perfect for such genres with Hi -ish gain but stopping before you get to metal.
I think the 900 is a good amp and will cover most bases in Rock very well, for Metal though It never sounded right to me. The 800 does, but usually because you need extra gain from a pedal to get the Gain needed for Metal, so some of its benefits are how well it takes pedals. For metal it almost forces you to add something, meaning its promoting at least some uniqueness in tone combinations. The 900 can do this but the Diodes make it sound odd with drive pedals, which are pretty essential in Metal regardless if your amp has enough gain (OD's are used with Hi gain metal amps to change response , not always to add gain)
I have an 800 myself (as well as a Peavey 5150 and a Jet City JCA50) and I was in band with another guitarist who used a 900 (I was using a my 5150 ) , it was a Hardcore/Punk/Metal band and the 5150 and the 900 fitted perfectly tonally (although my 5150 blew up after a few shows and I had to do the rest f the Tour with a VS100 which held up well)
Thanks for your thoughts. You nailed it. Opinions are influenced by genres. It's hard to be general about ANY amp. Tastes are personal and genre dictates what we want to get out of an amp and how we get there...
I had a JCM900 4100 100w back in the early 2000s. I regret selling it. I can probably still get it back relatively cheap, but I want and 800 2203 now
It’s definitely it’s own thing. They are pretty inexpensive on the aftermarket because they are less popular. Good amp for the money.
Most of my my Marshalls have been Hot Rodded. Love'em Just take your amp to reputable Amp Man & have him make it what you want. Added a half-power switch & effects loop to my 800. Living the Dream!!!!
Sweet! Sounds like an awesome idea!! Enjoy those babies!!
It's about preference for me. I don't think 900 sounds like a 800 with or without clipping diodes. I just like the JCM800 /2204/ better, and I like the 900 but not as much, same goes for other series as DSL, they are not bad it's just not my tone.
You nailed it. It’s a taste thing. They ate different amps that cater to different things.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
The Slx will always have the diode present even when turned to 0. The only 900 model that you can take the diode style out (besides modding it out) is the JCM900 2100. Rare and hard to find.
2100 is very close to the 2203.
Thanks for your insight!
Isn't this incorrect? The SLX is all valves and no diode clipping. The diode clipping is in the JCM 900 MKIII, rather.
@@germanomosconi392 You are correct in that it's a tube instead of a diode. The MKIII you can take the diode out of the equation. The SLX will always have the tube in the chain to colour the sound ever so slightly.
@@thecase1975 Thanks for confirming. I had my SLX modded by Henric Hermansson and turned it into a firebreather of an amp with a 5 stage gain preamp....that thing is tight and brutal. I am planning to source another one to have it modded by Dan Gower.
Glad u like it. I had a 4 gain stage hermansson modded slx and I homestly much preferred the stock slx
Loved a friend’s 800 when I played with a band from Amsterdam, great thick chords and chugalugggg!!
The 800 is a classic!!!
OMG love that Howard Roberts fusion!! green with envy.,
That's my number 1 :))))))))
I always loved the 900. It was excellent for punkish chugging. I loved the clean channel too. I also had an old jcm800 and it was completely different. I don’t remember it having a preamp gain, I remember it being incredibly loud and the harmonics were out of this world. On a whim, I set up a close mic and a room mic in a 3000 sq ft room and just played something to ring it out. That amp sang like Whitney Houston pre-crackpipe.
The 900s get a bad rap but it's not fair. They are great amps. Man that must have sounded awesome. I hope you recorded it! :)
I am a 90's pop and skate punk guy and the 900 and Dual Rec were the staples back then 👍. My guitarist had a 900 but switched to an 800 after I left because he wanted more of a Jawbreaker sound, today I have a 90's 900 High Gain Dual Reverb 50w (6L6 tubes) and a 90's JCM 2000 DSL 100
@@1thess523 nice combo!
@@LonelyRocker 👊
@@1thess523 Those Duo Rec's were so rad. The sound of those was like crisp winter air
Im going to be honest here... I worked 2 summers in high school in the 90s to buy an amp. At the time, all of the guitar magazines were blasting the JCM900 in the ads... So that Is what I got... $1200USD... I actually only came up with $1000, and my dad kicked in the additional $200... which he proceeds to lord over me for the next 3 years or so... I never really like it. Im still not sure why... 10 years later, I put some 6l6 tubes it in, and it mellowed out a bit, but still, never really loved it. It's in the shop right now getting looked over, and Im hoping my tech can make it sound good... I mainly play a fender twin reverb now (for the past 20 years). I have effects that can make it as dirty as your mind can imagine. I can say that In all honesty that when I played that fender amp in the store, I had to own it... I have high hopes for the marshal, but the jury is still out...
Amps are all so different and our tastes vary. We also all have different expectations of our amps. That sound in our heads. It makes it tricky and why I think these debates are silly. It’s likely just not the amp for you. You’ve always known it. You likely wanted to enjoy the amp but never found the tones you were looking for.
@@LonelyRocker I agree, that amp probably isn't what I was looking for. It's also possible that I never put anything into dialing in the tone, or understanding that turning everything up to 10 isn't the right way to approach it. I pretty much learned how to play electric guitar in isolation, and there wasn't the internet at that time to learn from. Also, at the time I was living in Iceland, so I mail ordered it and never even played before putting down $1200 (really stupid)... Kind of a slow motion train wreck in progress. Its funny that you mention the pqassionate gear debates. I see this conversation everywhere in life. Ford vs Dodge, marshal vs Fender, Marlboro vs, Newports... democrats vs republicans... It's kind of hilarious how people decide on something, double down, argue until they are red in the face, then just fall short of starting a religion over it. agreed, kind of silly. The Fender guys do the same thing... The black face AB763 circuits amps sell for $4k, and the silver face made the very next year (AB568) are considered to be dreaded, so you couldn't give them away... I'm sure there is a difference, but I can't really hear a discernable $3K difference... lol Cheers
You're clever young man, very clever, but it's Marshalls all the way down. @@JeremiahL
@@kurtbader9711 I talked to my tech today, and I should have the JCM900 worked over and back in my possession in a week... Im hoping that Its so dope that I just cant stop playing it. Cheers
Great job.
Thanks!
Would have like hear diode vs removed.
I have a model of a JCM900 with the Diode and almost put it in but figured I would have gotten flamed if I had :).
Just rewatched and listened on better speakers. I am still not a 900 guy, but there are no real reasons to hate it.
Thanks for diving in again. I think you nailed it. There’s no reason to hate it but it’s fine to say you prefer other things. That’s taste. Thanks for sharing!
if you turn down the gain and crank the master you can get the famous old plexi power amp saturation but hard to do at playable volume close by haha . but rh back end is the same topography as the old plexis, just the front end got adapted to try get more saturation at lower volumes, One thing thats interesting in a scientific way is if you put a plexi style or Vox non master volume amp on an oscilloscope and then a master volume , so say a jtm45 or JMP and then a 800 or 900 etc with the front end gain know the waveform from preamp distortion is a very sharp peak - hence why that sound can sound grating faster to the human ear than the non master volume amp that when in full saturation has beautiful curve at the top of the wave form on the scope, its as brutal as /\ (preamp gain) to O ( non master gain) and the human ear tires less and likes the softer peak, hence why the old plexis driven and pushed have a pleasing sound signature and richer, where our ears tire of the sharp preamp pushed tones, so ij designing any amp the trick is to get that sweet spot with volume and being able to saturate that power section, I think thats the magic in amps like the little freedman's and 1-20 watt heads where you can get the whole amp humming and not just a preamp diode on crack screaming at you .
Interesting! thanks for sharing!!
Love the jcm800. But not my local long and McQuade.
Uh oh 🤣
I sold my 900 DR 4500, but I have a JMP 2204, two JCM800 2204's, a JCM800 2205, 2555 Black Jubilee and a JCM900 2500 SL-X. The JCM900DR is great amp, and doesn't sound that different than any of them. I could go on and on about the subtle differences, but IMHO 5881's, EL34's and 6550's all sound a little different. Also, amps need to be healthy and in good condition to sound their best. Speakers make a huge difference as well. 900DR's should always have an EQ or a jumper in the loop.
Wow! Sounds like you have quite the collection!! 🎸🤟🏼😎
It's a lot of fun. @@LonelyRocker
JCM800 loads more life to it, brighter and fun leather pants sound. JCM900 is that 90s alt-rock lumberjack shirt sound.
Love this description! 😂😂😂
It's not really the diode clipping that's the difference it's all the op amps. If you dig it is all that counts.
I just wanted to try something with the amp as I've had it for so long. Not long after this video I bought an ENGL Powerball II. So I'm all over the place ;))))
900’s sound like a 100w Boss DS-1
Ha. That’s a first 😂
Had an orginal 900 back in the 90s when they came out full stack 100w. Didnt like it much hard to tame the gain as the host eluded to. Had a TSL 100 and a TSL 122 both regrettable too. The DSL was a decent amp better than the TSL by far especially the gain channel. The OD channel TSL similar to the 900 hard to tame washed out quickly could not dial it in at all. Never had an 800 so i cannot comment on them hear mostly good things about them. A few years back before the Friedman DS bought a Marshall Vintage Modern it stayed in the house about a week i took it back never liked that one neither. The best Marshall in my opinion in the 80s/ 90s/ 2000's were the 50w Silver Jubilee's. Fantastic Marshall tone easily malleable gain channel to whatever Marshall classic tone one could wish one could dial in. The best overall amp of the 80 and still great today. Soldano SLO have one today still. I use a Friedman Dirty Shirley for my real vintage British Tones JTM-45 but it will do JMP just fine too. I also have a fender twin which i prefer for Les Pauls work wonderfully well. Have an old VOX AC30 too but its needing a doctor lol. Just my humble opinion over 34 year of good and bad purchases for myself and just what i prefer. Everyone has their own taste in tone. Whats right for me may not be agreeable for someone else.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
So not to be a pain, since you removed the diodes this is not a accurate comparison??
I said in the video this is not meant to be a comparison but just checking out two cool amps. Not everything has to be a comparison. I guess you didn’t see that part.
I have 800 but still love 900s especially the SLX
Awesome. Nice to have some variety!
@@LonelyRocker ya ! I’m
Obsessed with amps . My 800wss modded to 5 gain stage by Hermanson amps . I also have his redone rectifier. I’ll send you videos of my my 2 Hermansons
Sounds sweet! I’m planning to add more to my collection 😎😎🎸
When people say 900 they are not referring in general to the SL-X , they are referring to the standard 4100. The SL-X tends to spoken about (at least in the groups and communities I have been in) as a connected but independent entity.
I do think the 900 gets an unfair amount of stick, but I am not sure of the way you framed this.
The Debate is usually a debate regarding the Base models. When people say "i prefer the 800 to the 900" they are talking about the 4100
I honestly think just as many understand it is the model number that matters as those who don't. The argument is too general. Like using Diode Clipping as a reason for not liking the 900. Much like the 800 some models have diode clipping and some don't. That was really my point...
For me the 800 sounds more rock and the 900 more metal
That’s a good assessment. I can get straight rock with the 900 too but it can be more aggressive.
I have played a 900 and put it up against my 83 50 watt 800. There is enough of a difference I guess . I played a few other 900s and they are OK. But my 50 watt 800 has more grind and is tighter.
Definitely very different amps. If your 800 is doing it for you then it’s the right amp!
@@LonelyRocker It certainly does. It is probably my go to 50 percent of the time. Otherwise it's Mark IV.
You did a good job. Rock on..
Thanks so much! Enjoy yours!
All I have to say is the 800's had Drake transformers and 900's do not! Headroom between the two is different. Yes I am bias to 800's lol
At least you admit your bias!!! But you are allowed. If that amp makes you happy then shout it loud and proud!!!!!
Used to own a 900 head and didn’t get even close to the gain you got. Sans pedals of course.
I must have been digging in hard ;-)))))
The 800er had more growl . I Love both Amps 👍🤘
Good to have a wide range of SWEET Marshall tones!!1 :)
Something I’ll never understand, I’ve owned both, sold the 8 and kept the 9!
Why??
Let’s be serious, I use a slew of pedals, the amp is nothing more than a PA, haven’t used the gain channel in decades..
So while your wondering what’s best, I base it on a clean channel sound like most musicians that play for a living..
If you’re plugging straight in to the amp for a show, well you must be alone in traffic on the highway! 🤷🏻♂️
Good perspective here....
I run my 900 on the clean channel and crank it up all the way. The distortion it gets is just clean channel break up. It blows away the distortion channel. It’s not a ton of distortion but if you push it with a overdrive it’s amazing
I love that clean channel and often do the same. Pushing a boost into sounds great.
JCM800 is so amazing! 900 sounds so noisy, has so much unnecessary harmonics
What’s amazing is how this argument swings back and forth from commenter to commenter. Thanks for you thoughts.