Hey everyone, just going to clear up some confusion here, the point of this video isn't to say that "realism" should or shouldn't be in the game, the point is that "realism" is an inherently poor argument for gameplay or balancing changes. If your argument is, "I believe that tarkov strives to be a more tactical game and I think bunny hopping should be removed so that people are forced to play slower and smarter," then that is a far better argument than saying, "bunny hopping should be removed because it isn't realistic."
Pretty much my exact thoughts. I personally don't like the new armor. Yeah it wasn't realistic to for a shot to the armpit to be the same as getting hit in the heart directly, but I liked it, because more weapons and ammo types were viable mid-to -late wipe. From a gameplay perspective, there was actually an incentive, even if small to keep and use non-ap ammo, and the weapon variety definitely increased too.
there's two sides to this idiocy. people hear the term "realism" and immediately jump to the conclusion that we all should have to wipe our PMC's asses and wait 2-3 years for bullet wounds to heal. that's not what ANYBODY is saying.
I love how Tarkov actually encourages cleaning your weapons less because it does permanent dmg to the weapon. No don’t oil it or upkeep it in any way, run it till it starts jamming and THEN do some maintenance
Yeah, I wish it would be less a durability mechanic and more of a general maintenance/ cleaning. Even ignoring you don't need to clean guns every single time you use them for like 100 rounds- that's more reasonable than them being actually damaged. That and a cleaning kit would be far more common than the repair kits seem to be. Maybe even make it have a cooldown of some nature. It can sometimes make you take an half hour to clean just one gun for instance- it depends, on how good you are at it (skill in game) and how thoroughly you wish to clean it. Hell you could make it go through tons of patches or bottles of Hoppes number 9 or ballistal, or whatever the hell the Russian army uses, as well as real world time if you wanted.
I just stashed my friends gear in a bush in the middle of nowhere in a giant forest and Prepors goons just link arms and check for my gear like its a fucking pool looking for lost little timmy
A point about helmets. Modern day infantry helmets ARE indeed meant to provide ballistic protection. However pretty much all helmets struggles to do all three: Provide greater than level IIIa protection, not weigh too much, and not deform in an injurious manner from high energy impact. The armor classification in Escape From Tarkov seems to be based rather loosely off of the Russian GOST and BR classifications which are also 1-6. So realistically, none of the helmets should exceed class 3 in game (class 3 in game is roughly equivalent to NIJ IIIa from what I've gathered). That said, ballistic helmets have in fact been known to stop rifle rounds, but that's because average engagement ranges for rifles and machine guns in real life battlefields tends to be around 300 meters. So a modern ballistic helmet could realistically stop intermediate rifle rounds around that range, and modern ballistic helmets could even stop full powered rifle rounds over 500 meters away. Such engagement ranges however seem very uncommon the way that Escape From Tarkov designs its maps.
Have seen a lucky round. Guy peeked over a wall guy in street shoots, hits his helmet. Man on roof is knocked out, bullet got between layers of Kevlar and ended up lodged inside the helmet. Second incident gunner takes a round at about 100 meters rouges the helmet. Lucky angle.
Ehh. To add on to what this guy is saying, the newest modern helmets (new as in made within the last couple years) are able to stop some rifle rounds at muzzle velocity. The helmets you are talking about, which are IIIa rated or even IIIa+, are mostly helmets that were produced around the early 2000s up until very recently.
About ranges in tarkov. There is another mechanic that is taken from real life ballistics, that is bullet drop, as well as drop in speed and therefore lowering of penetrating capabilities. However, as far as I know, bullet drop and speed drop are exaggerated. So the regular helmets may lay OK in the frame of tarkov ballistics. But certain closed helmets and attachments are indeed stronger than they could ever be, even if irl had tarkov ballistics
Hold on. Just had my head taken off by a lapua magnum round. Let me just respawn back at base and pay someone to heal me instantly while I wait for some Russian guy to send his guys in to find my gear.
If they decide to add permadeath, then play that. Enjoy finding the pocket watch multiple times a week (assuming you dont die on Ground Zero before then)
to be fair on the "my pmc dies if he doesnt eat for 30 minutes" bit, time in tarkov is 1 to 7, so 3.5 hours of constantly running with 30+ kilo on my back and being afraid of getting domed every half step yeah id be exhausted too lol
Muh realism... bruh I've broken my arm irl, there is no way in hell, even on adrenaline, you are going to be able to pull a trigger with a noodle for a limb.
@@angry_z_rider4275 With the right kind of injury, you mechanically can't achieve that. I know when I broke my hand, I couldn't physically rotate my wrist past a certain point.
Yup, i broke my ankle in mma sparring. Was able to stand on it for 20-30 seconds, afterwards my leg just gave up. No way you gonna sprint like this for minutes, or hours.
Literally the most braindead single celled argument against mechanics in games. And it comes up every time. Just because one system is changed up for the sake of ease of gameplay doesn't mean the whole game should be just thrown to the arcade grindset.
Realism isn't a bad thing, it's just that Tarkov is so inconsistent with it to the point that they basically decide whether to use realism or fantasy based on which will make the game more of a chore.
facts. realism is important for a game like this but i feel like alot of this guys complaints as to why "realism" is a bad argument are just because of dumb choices made by the devs where what they do doesnt align with what their trying to do.
@@Budderluvrno it really is not, at all. What’s important for a game like Tarkov is *gameplay*. I thought he did a very good job explaining in this video but 99% of what makes Tarkov, Tarkov has absolutely ZERO basis in reality. The closest thing to realistic in this game is the weapon modding system, but idk about you, but in real life if I swap my MOE grip out for a GRAL, I’m not instantly Chris Kyle and magically know how to shoot my gun better. Just because the game models and uses real life equipment doesn’t make it realistic. Is Tarkov hardcore? Yea absolutely. But not “realistic” hard core. Making single player rpgs more realistic is a big trend, but even then, they really aren’t. For all the realism mods in Skyrim or fallout, let’s be real, they aren’t. Tarkov isn’t a mil sim, it’s an fps mmo.
Realism is good. Immersion is better. What bothers me most about recent additions which break the immersion is partisan. just so we all are at the same page about him: -he is friends with jäger (who is notorious for giving you sniping quests) -uses booby-traps. -makes no sound -hunts players hiding in bushes. How in the everloving fuck does he make sense?! I understand the reasoning for implementing a boss to punish campers. But partisan evidently LOVES this kind of shit! But can we at least get one which isnt some bipolar crackhead? Shtuman would fit the role as countersniper with his 3 warning shots. You hear those svd rounds passing by your ear and you have SECONDS to leave your cozy little bush. problem solved. You know what would be fun? partisan as the survivalist hillbilly despising players relying heavily on fancy equipment. You bring thermal vision or gear over a certain value? Partisan spawns in and hunts you and your shitty metabuild. You cosplay as a scav or a Afghan soldier...hes your best friend and lets you roam around freely. but yeah....BSG doing BSG stuff.
@@leviticus1132 i really just wish bsg would not be so....lets just say uncreative. obviously they intended to discourage players from playing "dishonorable". but do they even KNOW how players play in such a manner?! whenever I get extractcamped or sniped its rarely from a bush or close enough to the extract to trigger the bad karma effect. it really doesnt take a genius to come up with 10 better ways of handling this, i my opinion, nonissue.
2:45 the deformation of the mask after being hit with a big round like .44, even if it stops, is still enough to take you out of the fight at best, and leaves you dead at worst (or dead at best)
@@LucyWoIf not really. The backface deformation of proper IIIa helmets is designed specifically to keep you in the fight should the need be. A minor concussion is the worst case scenario from being struck in an armored location.
@@sixfootdworf9545 The comment is about the mask. Not a helmet. IIIa helmets benefit from structural design that allows that deformation to happen safely. In the mask, your cheekbone, or worse, your brow is getting shattered because its shape is straight up wrong.
just point them to Kentucky Ballistics' video where the vest stopped the round... but the kinetic energy exchange still turned the plate into a Kinetically Formed Projectile in its own right that went straight through a torso.
there should have been multiple color options since the start, I really like the green variant to blend into my beloved bushes but it doesnt look as silly
For me "realism in Tarkov" basically comes down to "pistols can one tap and shotguns are useful past 10 meters". Compare to other games where you can point blank someone in the face with a pistol and they might lose 10% of their health, and shotguns have the all range of a wet fart.
I think the argument that a mechanic thats more realistic and therefore better is valid IF the mechanic also contributes to a better or more enjoyable gameplay. I've long thought that the healing mechanics and wound retention needed an overhaul to add more depth to the character your playing and boost interaction with your team mates (for example, being able to perform surgery on teammates or administer medicine) but that comes before being more realistic. It would simply be a side effect of a new mechanic being added rather than the purpose for one.
The only people I hear using the word "realism" regarding Tarkov are people coping when they die in the game, never someone who tries to make an argument of game balance.
@@nade7242 Not true. Many of us want a realistic game, or one that is mostly realistic. We wouldn't have been drawn towards games like Tarkov if that weren't the case. Surely you can see how Tarkov would attract a subset of milsim gamers. Many of us have played games like Insurgency, Red Orchestra or Arma for years.
Technically modern military Helmets from the U.S & some from Russia and China are 3A helmets. They are technically designed to take a direct impact from pistol cartridges using the same materials used in level 3A vests. Even a $60 fast helmet replica I bought from Alibaba stopped .38, 9mm & 45acp from handguns (being that it had multiple layers of Aramid & Kevlar like materials still). The problem with masks and helmets will be the back face deformation that that will still probably crack your skull (break bones in your face, concuss you, etc). That being said & as you said, they are absolutely not capable of consistently stopping rifle rounds with any consistency.
The helmets aren't designed to take direct hits from pistols, just shrapnel. That it stops pistol rounds is coincidence. Older helmets that also stopped shrapnel couldn't stop pistol rounds, and even some modern, Russian ones don't match 3A rating (although these aren't issued to the military, or at least not that I know of).
@@andreivaldez2929 I like how this train of thought is prevelant. As if we are still stuck in the 16th century. No, if your helmet can't protect against stray shots, then its a trash combat helmet, simple as.
@andreivaldez2929 Wrong. Most modern military helmets, BUMP FAST, etc. Are IIIa rated. The desire to begin producing helmets specifically with the ability to stop direct impacts from firearms began as early as the 80s and 90s. Although, the first to do that successfully in a widespread sense were the Russians, and shortly thereafter, the US did so as well, with a much higher quality product. The US wanted ballistic protection which provided mounts for equipment etc., around the heads of their special forces because they refused to wear their issued helmets, which were heavy and did not provide them the mounting of equipment they desired. Among the first helmets to successfully have balistic protection and mounting implements were the Bump FAST helmets, and ULASH helmets. Nowadays, as in within the last couple years, helmets are coming out with the balistic protection capability to stop low caliber rifle rounds such as m855 5.56mm, and 5.45mm. This is one of the reasons, I think, that the US has decided to move to the sig spear. The general increase and availability of body armor in not only militaries, but other populations as well. I belive they even said as much.
@@andreivaldez2929 That's objectively not true. I own 3A helmets from both China and old Russian 3a helmets I bought on Ebay. and if you could read on even a 3rd grade level you would see I have even tested quote "3A" helmets from Alibaba that came from China that weren't N.I.J rated but were literally rated to be be hit by handgun rounds (& were made of aramid and other kevlar like materials). Guess what ? The Russian helmets and Chinese helmets stopped all the handgun rounds I threw at it. These are helmets I obviously don't wear & just test. I have no need to test My American made HHV ATE or fast helmet The only difference is the U.S one's have N.I.J rating. Which a 3A NIJ rating obviously means it is designed to take various handgun rounds per N.I.J ratings. How about you take a little time to understand the topic at hand before trying to correct someone and be completely incorrect.
@sixfootdworf9545 2 things, a bump helmet is a non ballistic version of the ballistic equivalent. An ops core FAST MT bump is essentially a glorified bicycle helmet with rails and mounts for ear protection and night vision. The other thing is the army has been trying to replace the m16/m4 since before it was adopted, they claim the sig spear was for increased body armor penetration but it can't do anything 7.62x51 can't do penetration wise even with the increased velocity from the hybrid bullets. The finer details aren't worth discussing in a yt comment on a video game, but trying to paint big army like they have any reason to move to the spear as their main infantry rifle for any reason other than backroom deals to greased palms and the fact that the army has hated the ar platform since Eugene stoner first presented them his ar-10 is giving them far too much credit.
Aaaand this is exactly why I play SPT, specifically the Realism mod. It flips all this stuff on its head. Helmets now don’t tank shots anymore, and the highest form of head protection you’ll get is from the Diamond Age Bastion with its armor plate attached, and that only goes up to level 7 protection.
point is? having some unrealistic things in game doesn't mean game can't aim at realism, and add something because of realism starving mechanic is unrealistic comparing to real live, but most games of same genre don't have it at all same with jamming, dark nights, overweight etc
Jamming generally disrupts the flow of gameplay, which is why so few games have it.. Dark nights really is a hit or miss feature, for a FPS without NVG's it's basically just a bad idea, and weight, how many games have you looting in the non-BR/Survival FPS space? The only game that comes to mind in this context that has weight is Insurgency, and Insurgency sandstorm.
@@ThatWhichObserves Weapon jamming is only fun in games like Far Cry 2 where part of the fun is pulling rebar out of your thigh as a healing animation.
@@seendon5394 Though even then it seems like it would be more fun if the damned AI had to also work within the system- so scavs had to clear jams with their 50-60 durability guns just as much as we would if we picked them up after killing them.
I think the problem is how the game marketed itself. Espacially back in 2017 people including me expected something that actually focused highly on realism. Though after hearing extraction and stuff was going to work and that game had a long way off from release ı decided to wait till full release. BOY am ı glad ı didn't buy Tarkov :D I still keep in touch with it every month or so and SPT with realism mods did make think about getting it but the game itself turned out DRASTICALLY different than what it was marketed and what ı think the whole ''muh realism'' crowd was thinking it was going to be.
as a US Infantryman i can tell y'all this, other than a small sector of freaks a completely realistic fps would not be enjoyable. engagements would occur at longer ranges and your enemies would look like dots or silhouettes. if you got hit you'd bleed out quickly or be left with broken ribs if the armor absorbed the bullets, arms would be unusable or completely gone. your plate carriers would be shredded from the impacts and if the rounds spalled you'd be covered in minor cuts and be lucky to see. then medical would be a nightmare. adminstering first aid would require knowledge of TCCC. grenades would be a lot more lethal. the list goes on. what you want instead is a comprehensive game. one with a lot of systems and some game elements. which arguably tarkov accomplishes. certainly not as in depth as say ARMA but comprehensive enough for what the game wants to be.
@@ThatWhichObserves Arma 3 is pretty much "shooting at dots and silhouettes at long ranges" for the most part, and half the playerbase runs ACE3 anyways so you also have the tedious medical part.
@@lemons1559 Even vanilla Arma 3 is much more realistic than Tarkov, in Tarkov it's literally impossible to shoot someone that's more than 80m away with ironsights.
EFT was supposed to be hyper realistic, it is not anymore. I liked it when the priority was realism, and therefore do not play anymore. The game became something I dislike but others like, so be it. The thing I dislike about BSG's discourse of realism is their hypocrisy, they do things because they're realistic but then do others despite them being unrealistic, they should not use realism as a reason if they will not do the same to a majority of features and changes. This hurts even more when they add/change things that removes fun out of the game with and invalid and hypocritical reason. Another quick thing, the gameplay design of EFT made the game almost impossible to turn realistic and fun at the same time, the realistic mod for SPT is a really good and fun mod but they cannot fix every gameplay realism problem (not counting stash, traders, maps, quests, etc...) of base EFT and keep the game fun and that saddens me.
100% Agree. They laughed at us. Put real weapon noises, real plates, detailed weapons, detailed BTR, realistic sound design to finally make fun of us on the gunplay. I bought the game by looking at their site, not by watching a streamer. I feel like I've been ripped off on the proposal. And yes, BSG can change the gameplay without justifying itself.
Levi is just flexing that he doesn't have to eat a can of soup every 15 minutes. Must be nice to not need to buy 672 cans of soup a week in this economy.
A side note for nutrition for Tarkov; Which is time. The amount of time that passes in-game and IRL is drastically different, mix travel distance an you are in a strange reality of space and time that has it own special rule. I would like to see the passage of time for night maps but I was spending the whole raid in complete darkest in the start of wipe. That would be fun to start but also annoying to navigate without spending alot of bullet by using the flash in "let not aggro the cultist."
Argument or not i utterly despise all the nonsense they introduced "for gameplay reasons" and it includes every single example from this video, starting with overbuffed helmets and obnoxious HP pools on bosses, yes gear matters but it shouldnt turn you into a tank bouncing rifle rounds off your head And before someone says muh realism scrub/cuck/whatever "you return to base magically alive"... i have no issue with permadeath/reset as a gameplay mod..tired of ppl valuing their gear more than their pmc.
The boss health pools don't ruin the game because they're unrealistic, they ruin it because it's unfair and contrary to what the game is built around. Basically, the only way to kill Tagilla reliably is to A. Get him after another player already wore him down or B. Get so lucky and catch him so off guard that even his ability soak a whole drum of assault rifle ammo can't compensate.
the only thing about the food argument is that in a raid time is accelerated vs real life; ive joined a raid at 6pm and somehow had the sun completely set within 30 minutes
Wait a sec, bird eye sprint silently? Why do I always hear when I kill the other 2? Like I can hear him sprinting towards my corner with malicious intent, and that's how I kill him every time
Ok hold on the food argument has a bit of an issue since time passing in game is much faster than real time even though we play in real time from our perspective each raid is several hours long
...but how does that solve anything? How does that not open up even more questions? So time passes faster in tarkov? But everyone moves slower to compensate? Is tarkov in a timeflow bubble?? How can my PMC burn through 7x the energy he would have in a given time frame, when he hasnt actually moved 7x more? How does any of this make sense to you? 😂
@@americantoastman7296 I was talking about one aspect of it and why that argument isn’t necessarily bulletproof I completely agree with this video lol I’m just not going to let a bad argument go through without criticism
My only thing with realism in these games is that it is fantastic to see a game where your choice of weapon, ammo, sight attachments, and body armor DO make a difference beyond mindless HP vs Damage output. Level 6 has saved me so many times and its fantastic. Level 3 has definetly tanked some rounds for me and been completely useless in the next fight, making it worth dropping entirely. Choices and outcomes, input and output is fantastic and just gives such a great vibe to the game. I also do really appreciate the attention to detail in the game when it comes to how guns work. Too many games put the AK charging handle on the wrong side, give a completely wrong reload animation, or lazily hack together the same reload animation on a gun that works entirely different. The far cry 5 and 6 games had a few egregious errors like this that drove me insane
the only weapon parts that should have durability for gameplay's sake imo are barrels and suppressors. magazines could have it but that would just be annoying. jamming should only be related to cleanliness, which should be servicable without a trader. maybe oil could boost reliability for raid. whole durability system as it is is just kinda cooked. weapons aside, who repairs armor plates 😂. my favorite part of weapon durability in tarkov is that it only applies to the lower receiver, which is arguably the part of a the weapon least concerned with wear IRL unless youre 3d printing ghost guns. i've broken stocks, worn out barrels, cracked optic glass, melted handguards, worn out mag springs, etc.-never once needed to replace a lower just to put all the other parts back on 😂
I think the nutrition system is on an accelerated timescale like the time of day, so 30 min in-raid works out to ~ 210 min passing in-universe. Still a bit fast for metabolism, but it's slightly more justifiable in that sense. As for Factory, if postFX wasn't a thing the argument could be made that it's dark to force players to slow down and check corners, slightly slowing down the TTK, but we all know it's because BSG has no idea how to light spaces properly
I like the "as realistic as playable" that Tarkov has become and i hope they keep a good level of realism, it's worked best for the game in that manner.
Helmets should protect against grenade fragments better than they do. It's primarily what their purpose is: Protecting against fragmentation. Some bosses, like Tagilla, have way too much health to the point where your only chance of survival is 1. Having a friend or 2. Opening fire on him from at least 30 meters away. I know Tagilla is on meth, but even meth heads shouldn't survive 40 direct hits to the stomach or continue running at you with two crippled legs. There's also the issue with AI accuracy.. in real life soldiers don't spray their guns full-auto at targets 100 meters away. They only do that in situations that require suppressive fire, or from a mounted position. If they want to advertise Tarkov as a realistic tactical shooter, they need to get a grasp of what constitutes as realism. I know it's a video game -- I know that it won't perfectly mimic real life. But you look at games like Insurgency and even some aspects of "realism" in games like DayZ and in some ways they do it better.
@@Tal469 yes but i mean often times LIFE ALTERING concussions,and things like ruptured discs, cracked vertebrae,and permanent paralysis, so I doubt you’ll be walking around afterwards.
@Ronald-qs3ke I wouldn't be walking either way Also people survived shots from rifles with the ECH I'd take a level 3 helmet in short cqb raids everyday of the week for rucks and patrols? A 3a is enough
I think they should add the wizard that cultists, Partisan, Birdeye, and Kollontay visit to get their boots of silent step, aura of gun jammery, true sight, etc. If they get to use magic, so should I.
I hate the food and drink system so much, like you have to pay to heal up after getting mercd in a raid but you have to waste a scav run to hit up goshen on interchange just to fill up on apple juice and tachanka
It makes perfect sense, people want the game to be realistic. The problem is that they don't realize that they're not getting it and the game is now a far cry from it
People forget it's a balance between fun and realism. Go too much one way and you get Call of Duty, too much the other and you get "sitting in a ditch while being shelled simulator".
my character can smash down numerous doors, armed with a weapon and rounds with enough power to take off a god's leg but that pesky wooden door which can only be opened with a specific key.... grrrrr
@@leviticus1132 Yeah that makes sense, but i only say this cause getting team killed is super frustrating and playing with more than 3 is almost impossible from my experience with my friends LOL. You replying is super cool, keep up the great vids!
make a video about budget choice of weapon this wipe, i'm sure you will have a lot of views and many new players would like to watch it. make budget for each early tier, like Trader 1, Trader 2, which one is better for new player to use bla bla bla, which ammo...... i think it's very helpful and meaningful for the community.
That's a blanket brush. I enjoy realistic games, like IL-2 or GHPC. If they weren't realistic, I wouldn't enjoy them as much, even though I get that most people wouldn't want to spend 20 minutes driving/flying to and from the battle.
@@Bean_guy2 it has realistic aspects bur mainly is authentic. Because a completly realistic tank, wargame, or military shooter would be 90% waiting and 100% be unfun to play.
@@Fellente No, now that is a strawman arguement. GHPC is a realistic depiction of military tank combat, not of "military life" which is 90% waiting. You wait for objectives, spend time moving between, all of that is realistic to military *combat*, within the realm of a single engagement. And bro, if it has "realistic elements" than it's a realistic game, stop being obtuse.
Regarding the food topic. You forgot here that the raid time is like 3 or 4 times faster than real time. While you play for 35 minutes it’s a couple of hours for your PMC. Sure starving in hours is still overly unrealistic but I see it more the PMC is just tired and needs food to revitalize. Because we have no sleep mechanic in the game.
As a player of over 5000 hours. I like SOME realism in the game. That’s what originally attracted me to it. I like the realistic way guns are modeled and feel compared to other games. At the same time I know there are unrealistic parts to it all. After all it *is a game*
Ok I'm just going to say this, if you have a problem with people using realism as a basis for the way the game should play you didn't read ANY of the promotional material BSG advertised the game with back in the day, those pages on the website STILL exist -Behold the system module HECS - Hazardous Environment Combat Simulator. -Feel your character via health and physical characteristics, including hydration, energy, blood pressure, bloodloss, fractures, contusion, intoxication, exhaustion, tremors and so on. -Control your character freely - smooth speed and stance changes and transitions, leaning and proning. -Be aware of real-life ballistics and projectile hit physics. -Get ready to feel the weapon as it is in real life. Get used to physical concepts of weapon operating - jamming, overheating, wearout, reloading, aiming, charging and, of course, shooting. -Discover the most advanced weapon modding system ever. Change everything you want to expand your weapon’s tactical abilities. -Interact with the environment to gain situational domination - switch lights, commence tactical entry with door interaction system. I guess taking thousands of Joules of energy to the head and having your helmet just absorb all of it is totally fine though according to some of you
The simple thing about "realism" arguments. Is that realism should only ever be used to enhance gameplay, not dictate it. If the only reason you add something is "well because it's realistic" you need to wonder if it's actually worth adding.
People need to realize there is a difference between "realism" and "authenticity". The former can be interesting at times, as long as you know when to throw it to the curb, but the latter- if you aren't doing fully silly and sometimes fantasy/scifi things (though even then they need to be authentic to their setting at least.)
In their defense I believe the intention is for colon man to scare your pmc making him so petrified he can’t do anything but the only real way to do that is via gun jams right now and hopefully it’s changed in the future
Why not inflict an extreme version of the tremors effect? At the very least it makes somewhat sense, at least more sense than jamming your gun because of his stick of frightening.
I generally agree with all of your points, but i feel like a lot of people misuse these points to defend really stupid aspects of the game. For example the current armor system. Currently body armor is insanely overpowered, especially in the later game, and i see so many people arguing "well its not supposed to be realistic its supposed to be fun" and im just confused because this new armor system is neither realistic or fun. Ever since they walked back the unique plate sizes and shapes you now need to get headshots if you want to win a fight because it can still take 6+ bullets to kill someone with torso shots even with the best ammo in the game. Combine this with the fact that arms can block headshots because of the bullet punch animation and you get situations where players can literally tank entire mags of m855a1. Arena has made this painfully obvious. Close quarters fights essentiall come down to who can get a headshot first, instead of who can get shots on target first.
I honestly prefer the old system, with smaller armor plate hitboxes. I’m in the minority here, but it would at least help the shittier ammo a little bit
@@brawler5760 yeah i feel like the people who were bitching about dying that much more because of that system were getting punished for swinging corners like idiots and exposing too much of their bodies. i have 3k+ hours in tarkov and i played the shit out of that last wipe and only died to random armpit shots like 5 or 6 times. definitely not enough to warrant turning the armor system into the tanky nonsense that it is now. im pretty sure this is the tankiest armor has been since you could layer body armor and armored rigs, and its because they made the plates way too big while still allowing them to negate blunt damage completely. imo what they should do to strike a happy medium is make the plates about 15%-20% smaller, and make it so they only absorb 75% of blunt damage.
If BSG could find a proper balance between realism and fantasy, or at least between punishing gameplay and fun gameplay, it would certainly help. An example of this is the old plate system. The old plate system was realistic, and could have been properly functional, if the health system wasn't so punishing with it. The fact that the entire thorax continued to take lethal damage, rather than having separate hitboxes for vitals, is why the old plate system didn't work. In contrast, if I may mention Forbidden Tarkov, the Realism mod for that is balanced around realism. While it is hardcore and much more realistic, it still retains some game-ified elements. For example, it uses the old plate system but also introduces an updated health system, where getting shot in the armpit causes a lot less damage/issues as getting shot in the lung.
The health system was realistically punishing with it. People just didn't like it, the realism wasn't the issue. It worked exactly as intended, it produced realistic results.
@ForOne814 perhaps, but whils Tarkov is meant to be hardcore, but it's still a game so it's also meant to be fun. With the realistic armor plate system, the TTK was simply too fast for firefights to be enjoyable, since a shot to the armpit would deal an equal amount of damage as a shot directly to the chest. As I mentioned, the Realism mod for Forbidden Tarkov found the balance for this. You're character is able to take a lot more punishment, and shots to non-lethal areas are far less devastating/damaging, while getting hit in the vitals in basically a one-tap. However, getting shot is still something to avoid, since you permanently lose that health (unless you have healing stims) and they can still cause bleeds that only specific items can stop (e.g. only calok for chest bleeds).
@@22XERO22 it's not supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be enjoyable. Fun is just one of the many possible ways something can be enjoyable. But it's not realistic. Why call it realism mod if the results are less realistic than the actual in-game implementation was?
unfortunately i have to agree. a decent amount of the playerbase (including myself) got into tarkov when some of the "milsim" youtubers had a few viral hits with tarkov and on the surface level it does seem like some other milsim type games and maybe thats how nikita wanted the game to be at the very start but it seems like a lot of these players have a hard time accepting that the game is going in a different direction and has been for many years already
Hey everyone, just going to clear up some confusion here, the point of this video isn't to say that "realism" should or shouldn't be in the game, the point is that "realism" is an inherently poor argument for gameplay or balancing changes. If your argument is, "I believe that tarkov strives to be a more tactical game and I think bunny hopping should be removed so that people are forced to play slower and smarter," then that is a far better argument than saying, "bunny hopping should be removed because it isn't realistic."
holy soy argument
go play fortnite lil kid
Pretty much my exact thoughts. I personally don't like the new armor.
Yeah it wasn't realistic to for a shot to the armpit to be the same as getting hit in the heart directly, but I liked it, because more weapons and ammo types were viable mid-to -late wipe.
From a gameplay perspective, there was actually an incentive, even if small to keep and use non-ap ammo, and the weapon variety definitely increased too.
i think the term realism was just interpreted wrong. nikita may have meant that he wanted real life problems in those scenarios to be portaid.
there's two sides to this idiocy. people hear the term "realism" and immediately jump to the conclusion that we all should have to wipe our PMC's asses and wait 2-3 years for bullet wounds to heal. that's not what ANYBODY is saying.
2:57 bro sounded like Paul Harrell when he used to list things off 😂
I love how Tarkov actually encourages cleaning your weapons less because it does permanent dmg to the weapon. No don’t oil it or upkeep it in any way, run it till it starts jamming and THEN do some maintenance
Yeah, I wish it would be less a durability mechanic and more of a general maintenance/ cleaning. Even ignoring you don't need to clean guns every single time you use them for like 100 rounds- that's more reasonable than them being actually damaged. That and a cleaning kit would be far more common than the repair kits seem to be.
Maybe even make it have a cooldown of some nature. It can sometimes make you take an half hour to clean just one gun for instance- it depends, on how good you are at it (skill in game) and how thoroughly you wish to clean it. Hell you could make it go through tons of patches or bottles of Hoppes number 9 or ballistal, or whatever the hell the Russian army uses, as well as real world time if you wanted.
I just stashed my friends gear in a bush in the middle of nowhere in a giant forest and Prepors goons just link arms and check for my gear like its a fucking pool looking for lost little timmy
I cannot stop laughing way too accurate 😂
I think the logic is that you tell Prapor where you lost the stuff. And his men are going to look there.
could also be an RFID setup
@@imir_ me, after getting riddled top to bottom by .45 AP: "yeah bro my dead body dropped about over there, thats where my stuff is."
@@americantoastman7296 No no it was your twin brother actually.
A point about helmets.
Modern day infantry helmets ARE indeed meant to provide ballistic protection. However pretty much all helmets struggles to do all three: Provide greater than level IIIa protection, not weigh too much, and not deform in an injurious manner from high energy impact. The armor classification in Escape From Tarkov seems to be based rather loosely off of the Russian GOST and BR classifications which are also 1-6. So realistically, none of the helmets should exceed class 3 in game (class 3 in game is roughly equivalent to NIJ IIIa from what I've gathered).
That said, ballistic helmets have in fact been known to stop rifle rounds, but that's because average engagement ranges for rifles and machine guns in real life battlefields tends to be around 300 meters. So a modern ballistic helmet could realistically stop intermediate rifle rounds around that range, and modern ballistic helmets could even stop full powered rifle rounds over 500 meters away. Such engagement ranges however seem very uncommon the way that Escape From Tarkov designs its maps.
Man, that'd be great gameplay: the helmet will only stop a 5.56/ 7.62×39 at over 300m - sounds so fun 😊
Have seen a lucky round. Guy peeked over a wall guy in street shoots, hits his helmet. Man on roof is knocked out, bullet got between layers of Kevlar and ended up lodged inside the helmet. Second incident gunner takes a round at about 100 meters rouges the helmet. Lucky angle.
Ehh. To add on to what this guy is saying, the newest modern helmets (new as in made within the last couple years) are able to stop some rifle rounds at muzzle velocity. The helmets you are talking about, which are IIIa rated or even IIIa+, are mostly helmets that were produced around the early 2000s up until very recently.
I have serval friends who survived a helmet shot from 50 meters by 7.62x39, i guess that the quality of the round matters…
About ranges in tarkov. There is another mechanic that is taken from real life ballistics, that is bullet drop, as well as drop in speed and therefore lowering of penetrating capabilities. However, as far as I know, bullet drop and speed drop are exaggerated. So the regular helmets may lay OK in the frame of tarkov ballistics. But certain closed helmets and attachments are indeed stronger than they could ever be, even if irl had tarkov ballistics
Hold on. Just had my head taken off by a lapua magnum round.
Let me just respawn back at base and pay someone to heal me instantly while I wait for some Russian guy to send his guys in to find my gear.
If they decide to add permadeath, then play that. Enjoy finding the pocket watch multiple times a week (assuming you dont die on Ground Zero before then)
@@solitudeau8188 Haven't touched Tarkov in months.
Thats like the worst argument about „realism” ever made I think
This is such a non argument whats next "If you die/crash in a flight simulator you should never fly in a simulator again"
@@KrzyHolub It was a sarcastic comment about people crying about realism.
to be fair on the "my pmc dies if he doesnt eat for 30 minutes" bit, time in tarkov is 1 to 7, so 3.5 hours of constantly running with 30+ kilo on my back and being afraid of getting domed every half step yeah id be exhausted too lol
@@PSYCHOELECTR1C starving to death tho?
True, but like, I wouldn't starve to death even if it was half an entire day of strenuous activity.
And usually you sate your hunger with expired milk and sausage, not exactly a filling meal
@@Xalrider they call it “energy” not starvation
@@MsZsc so? You replenish it by eating and die from not eating - it’s starvation
The only realistic trait I want to see in tactical shooters is movement inertia.
Fast peeking is supposed to be done by leaning not strafing.
Muh realism... bruh I've broken my arm irl, there is no way in hell, even on adrenaline, you are going to be able to pull a trigger with a noodle for a limb.
You would be shocked. That's why after gunfight the first thing team leaders do is physically check their guys
@@angry_z_rider4275 With the right kind of injury, you mechanically can't achieve that. I know when I broke my hand, I couldn't physically rotate my wrist past a certain point.
Yup, i broke my ankle in mma sparring. Was able to stand on it for 20-30 seconds, afterwards my leg just gave up. No way you gonna sprint like this for minutes, or hours.
Literally the most braindead single celled argument against mechanics in games. And it comes up every time. Just because one system is changed up for the sake of ease of gameplay doesn't mean the whole game should be just thrown to the arcade grindset.
@@fen3311 agreed. I like how dayz is totally jank. But has some of the most realistic ballistics ever.
"well, in real life you can't respawn"
But I am all out of quarters, can you blame me. :P
Realism isn't a bad thing, it's just that Tarkov is so inconsistent with it to the point that they basically decide whether to use realism or fantasy based on which will make the game more of a chore.
facts. realism is important for a game like this but i feel like alot of this guys complaints as to why "realism" is a bad argument are just because of dumb choices made by the devs where what they do doesnt align with what their trying to do.
@@Budderluvrno it really is not, at all. What’s important for a game like Tarkov is *gameplay*. I thought he did a very good job explaining in this video but 99% of what makes Tarkov, Tarkov has absolutely ZERO basis in reality. The closest thing to realistic in this game is the weapon modding system, but idk about you, but in real life if I swap my MOE grip out for a GRAL, I’m not instantly Chris Kyle and magically know how to shoot my gun better. Just because the game models and uses real life equipment doesn’t make it realistic. Is Tarkov hardcore? Yea absolutely. But not “realistic” hard core. Making single player rpgs more realistic is a big trend, but even then, they really aren’t. For all the realism mods in Skyrim or fallout, let’s be real, they aren’t. Tarkov isn’t a mil sim, it’s an fps mmo.
The tiberium wars.
@@TrickyThe0nebased alert! IN THE NAME OF KANE
Realism is good.
Immersion is better.
What bothers me most about recent additions which break the immersion is partisan.
just so we all are at the same page about him:
-he is friends with jäger (who is notorious for giving you sniping quests)
-uses booby-traps.
-makes no sound
-hunts players hiding in bushes.
How in the everloving fuck does he make sense?!
I understand the reasoning for implementing a boss to punish campers.
But partisan evidently LOVES this kind of shit!
But can we at least get one which isnt some bipolar crackhead?
Shtuman would fit the role as countersniper with his 3 warning shots.
You hear those svd rounds passing by your ear and you have SECONDS to leave your cozy little bush.
problem solved.
You know what would be fun?
partisan as the survivalist hillbilly despising players relying heavily on fancy equipment. You bring thermal vision or gear over a certain value?
Partisan spawns in and hunts you and your shitty metabuild.
You cosplay as a scav or a Afghan soldier...hes your best friend and lets you roam around freely.
but yeah....BSG doing BSG stuff.
This is my point, this is a significantly better argument than simply stating, "partisan isn't realistic."
@@leviticus1132 i really just wish bsg would not be so....lets just say uncreative.
obviously they intended to discourage players from playing "dishonorable".
but do they even KNOW how players play in such a manner?!
whenever I get extractcamped or sniped its rarely from a bush or close enough to the extract to trigger the bad karma effect.
it really doesnt take a genius to come up with 10 better ways of handling this, i my opinion, nonissue.
2:45 the deformation of the mask after being hit with a big round like .44, even if it stops, is still enough to take you out of the fight at best, and leaves you dead at worst (or dead at best)
Full face broken
@@LucyWoIf not really. The backface deformation of proper IIIa helmets is designed specifically to keep you in the fight should the need be. A minor concussion is the worst case scenario from being struck in an armored location.
@@sixfootdworf9545 The comment is about the mask. Not a helmet. IIIa helmets benefit from structural design that allows that deformation to happen safely. In the mask, your cheekbone, or worse, your brow is getting shattered because its shape is straight up wrong.
@@Twilit777 what he said ^^^^
just point them to Kentucky Ballistics' video where the vest stopped the round... but the kinetic energy exchange still turned the plate into a Kinetically Formed Projectile in its own right that went straight through a torso.
People who try to use realism as a balance standard dont actually play the game, they just like watching it.
i cant play because pc not good :(
@@gameringdudeguy1126What does this have to do with OP's comment
@@gameringdudeguy1126 I know your pain, my poor Gtx950m after 30 minute raid if I lived for that long on customs or woods.
@@gameringdudeguy1126unfortunate
Who are these "people"?
Because I have never heard anyone use this argument.
My arguments about realism are usually about ballistics and my unending rage about what bipods can and cannot attach too.
You know what we should be arguing about, is the fact they ruined the dirty sock mask by making it green.
there should have been multiple color options since the start, I really like the green variant to blend into my beloved bushes but it doesnt look as silly
true!!!
wait WHAT?!
i thought that was another item i didn't think they would replace it???
I call it improvement
@@Hunterino39 We call this delusion.
For me "realism in Tarkov" basically comes down to "pistols can one tap and shotguns are useful past 10 meters".
Compare to other games where you can point blank someone in the face with a pistol and they might lose 10% of their health, and shotguns have the all range of a wet fart.
Killing in the head is in almost every shooter, it started from very first Counter Strike.
10% thing is for RPG and action games.
most realistic thing about tarkov is idiots defending it's cult Leader Nikkita
I think the argument that a mechanic thats more realistic and therefore better is valid IF the mechanic also contributes to a better or more enjoyable gameplay. I've long thought that the healing mechanics and wound retention needed an overhaul to add more depth to the character your playing and boost interaction with your team mates (for example, being able to perform surgery on teammates or administer medicine) but that comes before being more realistic. It would simply be a side effect of a new mechanic being added rather than the purpose for one.
I think Gray Zone Warfare does this, so you can have a squadmate heal your bones, while you’re trying to fix your lungs
What "realism" arguments are really about are players having certain expectations and those expectations not being met.
and also they only like realism when it supports the thing they want in the game
The only people I hear using the word "realism" regarding Tarkov are people coping when they die in the game, never someone who tries to make an argument of game balance.
@@nade7242 Not true. Many of us want a realistic game, or one that is mostly realistic. We wouldn't have been drawn towards games like Tarkov if that weren't the case. Surely you can see how Tarkov would attract a subset of milsim gamers. Many of us have played games like Insurgency, Red Orchestra or Arma for years.
spot on.
My only "Realism" gripe is the bosses with inflated health
Technically modern military Helmets from the U.S & some from Russia and China are 3A helmets. They are technically designed to take a direct impact from pistol cartridges using the same materials used in level 3A vests. Even a $60 fast helmet replica I bought from Alibaba stopped .38, 9mm & 45acp from handguns (being that it had multiple layers of Aramid & Kevlar like materials still). The problem with masks and helmets will be the back face deformation that that will still probably crack your skull (break bones in your face, concuss you, etc).
That being said & as you said, they are absolutely not capable of consistently stopping rifle rounds with any consistency.
The helmets aren't designed to take direct hits from pistols, just shrapnel. That it stops pistol rounds is coincidence. Older helmets that also stopped shrapnel couldn't stop pistol rounds, and even some modern, Russian ones don't match 3A rating (although these aren't issued to the military, or at least not that I know of).
@@andreivaldez2929 I like how this train of thought is prevelant. As if we are still stuck in the 16th century.
No, if your helmet can't protect against stray shots, then its a trash combat helmet, simple as.
@andreivaldez2929
Wrong. Most modern military helmets, BUMP FAST, etc. Are IIIa rated. The desire to begin producing helmets specifically with the ability to stop direct impacts from firearms began as early as the 80s and 90s. Although, the first to do that successfully in a widespread sense were the Russians, and shortly thereafter, the US did so as well, with a much higher quality product. The US wanted ballistic protection which provided mounts for equipment etc., around the heads of their special forces because they refused to wear their issued helmets, which were heavy and did not provide them the mounting of equipment they desired. Among the first helmets to successfully have balistic protection and mounting implements were the Bump FAST helmets, and ULASH helmets.
Nowadays, as in within the last couple years, helmets are coming out with the balistic protection capability to stop low caliber rifle rounds such as m855 5.56mm, and 5.45mm. This is one of the reasons, I think, that the US has decided to move to the sig spear. The general increase and availability of body armor in not only militaries, but other populations as well. I belive they even said as much.
@@andreivaldez2929 That's objectively not true. I own 3A helmets from both China and old Russian 3a helmets I bought on Ebay. and if you could read on even a 3rd grade level you would see I have even tested quote "3A" helmets from Alibaba that came from China that weren't N.I.J rated but were literally rated to be be hit by handgun rounds (& were made of aramid and other kevlar like materials). Guess what ? The Russian helmets and Chinese helmets stopped all the handgun rounds I threw at it. These are helmets I obviously don't wear & just test. I have no need to test My American made HHV ATE or fast helmet The only difference is the U.S one's have N.I.J rating. Which a 3A NIJ rating obviously means it is designed to take various handgun rounds per N.I.J ratings. How about you take a little time to understand the topic at hand before trying to correct someone and be completely incorrect.
@sixfootdworf9545 2 things, a bump helmet is a non ballistic version of the ballistic equivalent. An ops core FAST MT bump is essentially a glorified bicycle helmet with rails and mounts for ear protection and night vision. The other thing is the army has been trying to replace the m16/m4 since before it was adopted, they claim the sig spear was for increased body armor penetration but it can't do anything 7.62x51 can't do penetration wise even with the increased velocity from the hybrid bullets. The finer details aren't worth discussing in a yt comment on a video game, but trying to paint big army like they have any reason to move to the spear as their main infantry rifle for any reason other than backroom deals to greased palms and the fact that the army has hated the ar platform since Eugene stoner first presented them his ar-10 is giving them far too much credit.
Aaaand this is exactly why I play SPT, specifically the Realism mod. It flips all this stuff on its head. Helmets now don’t tank shots anymore, and the highest form of head protection you’ll get is from the Diamond Age Bastion with its armor plate attached, and that only goes up to level 7 protection.
True, SPT is great. You can basically modify it all to your preferences. Too bad that devs are a bunch of whiny clowns and hate it lol
I would argue immersion is more important than chasing realism.
point is?
having some unrealistic things in game doesn't mean game can't aim at realism, and add something because of realism
starving mechanic is unrealistic comparing to real live, but most games of same genre don't have it at all
same with jamming, dark nights, overweight etc
Jamming generally disrupts the flow of gameplay, which is why so few games have it.. Dark nights really is a hit or miss feature, for a FPS without NVG's it's basically just a bad idea, and weight, how many games have you looting in the non-BR/Survival FPS space? The only game that comes to mind in this context that has weight is Insurgency, and Insurgency sandstorm.
@@ThatWhichObserves Weapon jamming is only fun in games like Far Cry 2 where part of the fun is pulling rebar out of your thigh as a healing animation.
it can aim, but it won't be realistic by itself
it can aim, but it won't be realistic by itself
@@seendon5394 Though even then it seems like it would be more fun if the damned AI had to also work within the system- so scavs had to clear jams with their 50-60 durability guns just as much as we would if we picked them up after killing them.
Kollontay's magic stick has been such a frustration for me. I can't believe they added magic to this game lmao
> Factory is too dark
Bring a flashlight???????? The game literally has dozens of flashlights to choose from????????
I think the problem is how the game marketed itself. Espacially back in 2017 people including me expected something that actually focused highly on realism. Though after hearing extraction and stuff was going to work and that game had a long way off from release ı decided to wait till full release. BOY am ı glad ı didn't buy Tarkov :D I still keep in touch with it every month or so and SPT with realism mods did make think about getting it but the game itself turned out DRASTICALLY different than what it was marketed and what ı think the whole ''muh realism'' crowd was thinking it was going to be.
"You are a wizard, kollontay"
as a US Infantryman i can tell y'all this, other than a small sector of freaks a completely realistic fps would not be enjoyable. engagements would occur at longer ranges and your enemies would look like dots or silhouettes. if you got hit you'd bleed out quickly or be left with broken ribs if the armor absorbed the bullets, arms would be unusable or completely gone. your plate carriers would be shredded from the impacts and if the rounds spalled you'd be covered in minor cuts and be lucky to see. then medical would be a nightmare. adminstering first aid would require knowledge of TCCC. grenades would be a lot more lethal. the list goes on.
what you want instead is a comprehensive game. one with a lot of systems and some game elements. which arguably tarkov accomplishes. certainly not as in depth as say ARMA but comprehensive enough for what the game wants to be.
Is that why Arma 3 is consistently in the top 100 most played games on steam? Sometimes even reaching top 30.
@@Kisel228-fp8iz It's effectively mil-sim airsoft, add on to that the numerous mods that add more 'realism' features
@@ThatWhichObserves Arma 3 is pretty much "shooting at dots and silhouettes at long ranges" for the most part, and half the playerbase runs ACE3 anyways so you also have the tedious medical part.
@@Kisel228-fp8iz with those effects in game, Arma is still far far far from realistic.
@@lemons1559 Even vanilla Arma 3 is much more realistic than Tarkov, in Tarkov it's literally impossible to shoot someone that's more than 80m away with ironsights.
realism is the inspiration to make the game immersive
EFT was supposed to be hyper realistic, it is not anymore. I liked it when the priority was realism, and therefore do not play anymore. The game became something I dislike but others like, so be it. The thing I dislike about BSG's discourse of realism is their hypocrisy, they do things because they're realistic but then do others despite them being unrealistic, they should not use realism as a reason if they will not do the same to a majority of features and changes. This hurts even more when they add/change things that removes fun out of the game with and invalid and hypocritical reason. Another quick thing, the gameplay design of EFT made the game almost impossible to turn realistic and fun at the same time, the realistic mod for SPT is a really good and fun mod but they cannot fix every gameplay realism problem (not counting stash, traders, maps, quests, etc...) of base EFT and keep the game fun and that saddens me.
100% Agree. They laughed at us. Put real weapon noises, real plates, detailed weapons, detailed BTR, realistic sound design to finally make fun of us on the gunplay. I bought the game by looking at their site, not by watching a streamer. I feel like I've been ripped off on the proposal. And yes, BSG can change the gameplay without justifying itself.
Hey leviticus, I love how much more confident youve gotten
Levi is just flexing that he doesn't have to eat a can of soup every 15 minutes. Must be nice to not need to buy 672 cans of soup a week in this economy.
my friend and I were playing today and talking about how much of a big back our PMC's are lol "like i just fed you bro!"
A side note for nutrition for Tarkov; Which is time. The amount of time that passes in-game and IRL is drastically different, mix travel distance an you are in a strange reality of space and time that has it own special rule. I would like to see the passage of time for night maps but I was spending the whole raid in complete darkest in the start of wipe. That would be fun to start but also annoying to navigate without spending alot of bullet by using the flash in "let not aggro the cultist."
my favorite is how you can INSTANTLY pick a tank battery and put it in you bag (or any other item)
Argument or not i utterly despise all the nonsense they introduced "for gameplay reasons" and it includes every single example from this video, starting with overbuffed helmets and obnoxious HP pools on bosses, yes gear matters but it shouldnt turn you into a tank bouncing rifle rounds off your head
And before someone says muh realism scrub/cuck/whatever "you return to base magically alive"... i have no issue with permadeath/reset as a gameplay mod..tired of ppl valuing their gear more than their pmc.
diamond age bastion and wendy can stop rifle rounds in real life
Except the Bastion can’t mount face shields, so that’s as far as it’ll go.
I retort with, "your neck/ cranium are still turned to powder, bruv"
@@andreivaldez2929 no, not really. you may get a neck injury, but you'll (eventually) be fine. Bullets don't have all that much power behind them.
@@andreivaldez2929 depends on the caliber and stuff like that
@@godlikemachine645me when I forget about backface deformation
The boss health pools don't ruin the game because they're unrealistic, they ruin it because it's unfair and contrary to what the game is built around. Basically, the only way to kill Tagilla reliably is to A. Get him after another player already wore him down or B. Get so lucky and catch him so off guard that even his ability soak a whole drum of assault rifle ammo can't compensate.
the only thing about the food argument is that in a raid time is accelerated vs real life; ive joined a raid at 6pm and somehow had the sun completely set within 30 minutes
If Tarkov was realistic you would have to buy a new account every time you died
At least I never saw real soldiers bunny-hopping for their life...
You forgot the dumbest argument ever... "[We Need radiation in the extracts so people dont camp them]" that is a dumb argument, just open your eyes
Wait a sec, bird eye sprint silently? Why do I always hear when I kill the other 2? Like I can hear him sprinting towards my corner with malicious intent, and that's how I kill him every time
You confuse him with Knight, he always pushes forward and he is not silent
Ur audio drivers just built different
Ok hold on the food argument has a bit of an issue since time passing in game is much faster than real time even though we play in real time from our perspective each raid is several hours long
...but how does that solve anything? How does that not open up even more questions? So time passes faster in tarkov? But everyone moves slower to compensate? Is tarkov in a timeflow bubble?? How can my PMC burn through 7x the energy he would have in a given time frame, when he hasnt actually moved 7x more? How does any of this make sense to you? 😂
@@americantoastman7296 I was talking about one aspect of it and why that argument isn’t necessarily bulletproof I completely agree with this video lol I’m just not going to let a bad argument go through without criticism
Invalid argument. Human can survive easily 8 hours without food and water.
Ah, it last, justice
My only thing with realism in these games is that it is fantastic to see a game where your choice of weapon, ammo, sight attachments, and body armor DO make a difference beyond mindless HP vs Damage output. Level 6 has saved me so many times and its fantastic. Level 3 has definetly tanked some rounds for me and been completely useless in the next fight, making it worth dropping entirely. Choices and outcomes, input and output is fantastic and just gives such a great vibe to the game. I also do really appreciate the attention to detail in the game when it comes to how guns work. Too many games put the AK charging handle on the wrong side, give a completely wrong reload animation, or lazily hack together the same reload animation on a gun that works entirely different. The far cry 5 and 6 games had a few egregious errors like this that drove me insane
in addition to cultists and birdeye, parmesa- partizan sprints silently too.
Or the fact you inject your self with 10 different kind of drugs and adrenaline and not overdose or have a damn heart attack
The Realism mod for SPT actually adds an overdose mechanic for injecting yourself with the same drug multiple times.
the only weapon parts that should have durability for gameplay's sake imo are barrels and suppressors. magazines could have it but that would just be annoying. jamming should only be related to cleanliness, which should be servicable without a trader. maybe oil could boost reliability for raid. whole durability system as it is is just kinda cooked. weapons aside, who repairs armor plates 😂.
my favorite part of weapon durability in tarkov is that it only applies to the lower receiver, which is arguably the part of a the weapon least concerned with wear IRL unless youre 3d printing ghost guns. i've broken stocks, worn out barrels, cracked optic glass, melted handguards, worn out mag springs, etc.-never once needed to replace a lower just to put all the other parts back on 😂
Welcome back! Video quality is looking good and hope school let's up a bit for you soon.
I think the nutrition system is on an accelerated timescale like the time of day, so 30 min in-raid works out to ~ 210 min passing in-universe. Still a bit fast for metabolism, but it's slightly more justifiable in that sense. As for Factory, if postFX wasn't a thing the argument could be made that it's dark to force players to slow down and check corners, slightly slowing down the TTK, but we all know it's because BSG has no idea how to light spaces properly
I like the "as realistic as playable" that Tarkov has become and i hope they keep a good level of realism, it's worked best for the game in that manner.
Helmets should protect against grenade fragments better than they do. It's primarily what their purpose is: Protecting against fragmentation.
Some bosses, like Tagilla, have way too much health to the point where your only chance of survival is 1. Having a friend or 2. Opening fire on him from at least 30 meters away. I know Tagilla is on meth, but even meth heads shouldn't survive 40 direct hits to the stomach or continue running at you with two crippled legs.
There's also the issue with AI accuracy.. in real life soldiers don't spray their guns full-auto at targets 100 meters away. They only do that in situations that require suppressive fire, or from a mounted position.
If they want to advertise Tarkov as a realistic tactical shooter, they need to get a grasp of what constitutes as realism. I know it's a video game -- I know that it won't perfectly mimic real life. But you look at games like Insurgency and even some aspects of "realism" in games like DayZ and in some ways they do it better.
There are rifle rated helmets
@@Tal469 there are also traumatic brain injuries too
@Ronald-qs3ke I'd take a severe concussion over having my brain on the wall everyday of the week
@@Tal469 yes but i mean often times LIFE ALTERING concussions,and things like ruptured discs, cracked vertebrae,and permanent paralysis, so I doubt you’ll be walking around afterwards.
@Ronald-qs3ke I wouldn't be walking either way
Also people survived shots from rifles with the ECH I'd take a level 3 helmet in short cqb raids everyday of the week for rucks and patrols? A 3a is enough
I think they should add the wizard that cultists, Partisan, Birdeye, and Kollontay visit to get their boots of silent step, aura of gun jammery, true sight, etc.
If they get to use magic, so should I.
The most frustrating thing this wipe is that tripwires have a 10 minute timer.
Realism. Right. Realistically I cant turn on a dime and have to spin around before taking a step to the left.
I hate the food and drink system so much, like you have to pay to heal up after getting mercd in a raid but you have to waste a scav run to hit up goshen on interchange just to fill up on apple juice and tachanka
i see a leviticus video in my feed and i hit the likebutton
It makes perfect sense, people want the game to be realistic. The problem is that they don't realize that they're not getting it and the game is now a far cry from it
Such a good video haha I post so many tweets and everyone is like BUT ITS SO REALISTIC.
Tarkov realism is like war thunder realistic battle
I think the distinction people need to make it ‘realism’ vs ‘immersion’
Good luck for school! Focus on the important stuff!
-Signed by an overwhelmed student.
Tbf the food meter is an energy meter, it's never starvation its always exhaustion
Tarkov's HP system needs a fucking clear overhaul, these shitty little issues that have plagued Tarkov for years need to be sorted.
glad you are back
I like Gabe Newell's quote on video games and realism.
Don't even get me started in the crafting recipes if Tarkov is "Realistic"
Brb, just stapling my arm back on for the 3rd time in a single raid.
the second you die you need to uninstall the game, that’s the heckin wholesome point being made!!
Focus on school, upload whenever
Keep up the good work ! ❤
People forget it's a balance between fun and realism. Go too much one way and you get Call of Duty, too much the other and you get "sitting in a ditch while being shelled simulator".
my character can smash down numerous doors, armed with a weapon and rounds with enough power to take off a god's leg
but that pesky wooden door which can only be opened with a specific key.... grrrrr
School is more important man, true subscribers will wait for your great videos.
The ballistics face mask is rated for 44 but you wont have a face if you try.
they need to add a teammate indicator even if its just a tiny dot above their head that you can only see within 5 meters
I disagree. Playing as a solo, you're only advantage is confusion. This would give WAY too much of an advantage to 4-5 mans
@@leviticus1132 Yeah that makes sense, but i only say this cause getting team killed is super frustrating and playing with more than 3 is almost impossible from my experience with my friends LOL. You replying is super cool, keep up the great vids!
@@leviticus1132 i tought you hated realism
I mean it is also definitely still some of the priority (a la the recent addition of the plate system)
It's never been pure realism; it's always been "as realistic as playable"
Real OG's remember when Vaseline used to mend broken bones.
no longer playing tarkov on live servers for like 3/4 years only having SPT and I treat Tarkov as a nice gun customisation "simulator"
The entirety of the game doesn't have to be realistic for it to have realistic gameplay elements
make a video about budget choice of weapon this wipe, i'm sure you will have a lot of views and many new players would like to watch it.
make budget for each early tier, like Trader 1, Trader 2, which one is better for new player to use bla bla bla, which ammo......
i think it's very helpful and meaningful for the community.
I've heard the "it's not realistic" argument be used in WoW for why certain mounts shouldn't be able to fly...
Authenticity is what games should strive for, realism makes for bad games.
That's a blanket brush. I enjoy realistic games, like IL-2 or GHPC. If they weren't realistic, I wouldn't enjoy them as much, even though I get that most people wouldn't want to spend 20 minutes driving/flying to and from the battle.
@@Kazako83it is not a blanket brush and neither of those games are realistic, you missed my point.
@@Fellente how isn't GHPC realistic? Do think that for a game to be realistic it has to force you to refuel?
@@Bean_guy2 it has realistic aspects bur mainly is authentic. Because a completly realistic tank, wargame, or military shooter would be 90% waiting and 100% be unfun to play.
@@Fellente No, now that is a strawman arguement. GHPC is a realistic depiction of military tank combat, not of "military life" which is 90% waiting. You wait for objectives, spend time moving between, all of that is realistic to military *combat*, within the realm of a single engagement.
And bro, if it has "realistic elements" than it's a realistic game, stop being obtuse.
Regarding the food topic. You forgot here that the raid time is like 3 or 4 times faster than real time. While you play for 35 minutes it’s a couple of hours for your PMC. Sure starving in hours is still overly unrealistic but I see it more the PMC is just tired and needs food to revitalize. Because we have no sleep mechanic in the game.
A blue wale? The EFT avatars metabolism is more that of a field mouse or a hummingbird.
Or a cheetah, those kitties are basically born with extreme hyperthyroidism.
As a player of over 5000 hours. I like SOME realism in the game. That’s what originally attracted me to it. I like the realistic way guns are modeled and feel compared to other games. At the same time I know there are unrealistic parts to it all. After all it *is a game*
Ok I'm just going to say this, if you have a problem with people using realism as a basis for the way the game should play you didn't read ANY of the promotional material BSG advertised the game with back in the day, those pages on the website STILL exist
-Behold the system module HECS - Hazardous Environment Combat Simulator.
-Feel your character via health and physical characteristics, including hydration, energy, blood pressure, bloodloss, fractures, contusion, intoxication, exhaustion, tremors and so on.
-Control your character freely - smooth speed and stance changes and transitions, leaning and proning.
-Be aware of real-life ballistics and projectile hit physics.
-Get ready to feel the weapon as it is in real life. Get used to physical concepts of weapon operating - jamming, overheating, wearout, reloading, aiming, charging and, of course, shooting.
-Discover the most advanced weapon modding system ever. Change everything you want to expand your weapon’s tactical abilities.
-Interact with the environment to gain situational domination - switch lights, commence tactical entry with door interaction system.
I guess taking thousands of Joules of energy to the head and having your helmet just absorb all of it is totally fine though according to some of you
Bro I can take thousands of Juuls to the head no problemo
The simple thing about "realism" arguments.
Is that realism should only ever be used to enhance gameplay, not dictate it.
If the only reason you add something is "well because it's realistic" you need to wonder if it's actually worth adding.
But can we finally extend stocks and move the grips further on the rail
It'd be very realistic to have ghillies in tarkov as people definetly would have those although it would be exessively overpowered
People need to realize there is a difference between "realism" and "authenticity". The former can be interesting at times, as long as you know when to throw it to the curb, but the latter- if you aren't doing fully silly and sometimes fantasy/scifi things (though even then they need to be authentic to their setting at least.)
a scav took 6 7.62 54 t46's in the chest before BLEEDING OUT, no armor btw
Immersion vs realism, age old debate.
how about that time goes by 7x as fast as real life?
You're still starving to death in about a day tho, right?
you think 7x 30 minutes is equal to 3 weeks?
In their defense I believe the intention is for colon man to scare your pmc making him so petrified he can’t do anything but the only real way to do that is via gun jams right now and hopefully it’s changed in the future
Why not inflict an extreme version of the tremors effect? At the very least it makes somewhat sense, at least more sense than jamming your gun because of his stick of frightening.
@@brawler5760 yeah make it absolutely impossible to aim or something hopefully that could happen in the future with a boss rework?
In defense of it being dark af, I feel like it's partially to make nvg actually worth having and using. Same with lights/lasers and IR equipment.
thats what night mode is for
I generally agree with all of your points, but i feel like a lot of people misuse these points to defend really stupid aspects of the game. For example the current armor system. Currently body armor is insanely overpowered, especially in the later game, and i see so many people arguing "well its not supposed to be realistic its supposed to be fun" and im just confused because this new armor system is neither realistic or fun. Ever since they walked back the unique plate sizes and shapes you now need to get headshots if you want to win a fight because it can still take 6+ bullets to kill someone with torso shots even with the best ammo in the game. Combine this with the fact that arms can block headshots because of the bullet punch animation and you get situations where players can literally tank entire mags of m855a1. Arena has made this painfully obvious. Close quarters fights essentiall come down to who can get a headshot first, instead of who can get shots on target first.
I honestly prefer the old system, with smaller armor plate hitboxes. I’m in the minority here, but it would at least help the shittier ammo a little bit
@@brawler5760 yeah i feel like the people who were bitching about dying that much more because of that system were getting punished for swinging corners like idiots and exposing too much of their bodies. i have 3k+ hours in tarkov and i played the shit out of that last wipe and only died to random armpit shots like 5 or 6 times. definitely not enough to warrant turning the armor system into the tanky nonsense that it is now. im pretty sure this is the tankiest armor has been since you could layer body armor and armored rigs, and its because they made the plates way too big while still allowing them to negate blunt damage completely. imo what they should do to strike a happy medium is make the plates about 15%-20% smaller, and make it so they only absorb 75% of blunt damage.
If BSG could find a proper balance between realism and fantasy, or at least between punishing gameplay and fun gameplay, it would certainly help.
An example of this is the old plate system. The old plate system was realistic, and could have been properly functional, if the health system wasn't so punishing with it. The fact that the entire thorax continued to take lethal damage, rather than having separate hitboxes for vitals, is why the old plate system didn't work.
In contrast, if I may mention Forbidden Tarkov, the Realism mod for that is balanced around realism. While it is hardcore and much more realistic, it still retains some game-ified elements. For example, it uses the old plate system but also introduces an updated health system, where getting shot in the armpit causes a lot less damage/issues as getting shot in the lung.
The health system was realistically punishing with it. People just didn't like it, the realism wasn't the issue. It worked exactly as intended, it produced realistic results.
@ForOne814 perhaps, but whils Tarkov is meant to be hardcore, but it's still a game so it's also meant to be fun. With the realistic armor plate system, the TTK was simply too fast for firefights to be enjoyable, since a shot to the armpit would deal an equal amount of damage as a shot directly to the chest.
As I mentioned, the Realism mod for Forbidden Tarkov found the balance for this. You're character is able to take a lot more punishment, and shots to non-lethal areas are far less devastating/damaging, while getting hit in the vitals in basically a one-tap. However, getting shot is still something to avoid, since you permanently lose that health (unless you have healing stims) and they can still cause bleeds that only specific items can stop (e.g. only calok for chest bleeds).
@@22XERO22 it's not supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be enjoyable. Fun is just one of the many possible ways something can be enjoyable.
But it's not realistic. Why call it realism mod if the results are less realistic than the actual in-game implementation was?
unfortunately i have to agree. a decent amount of the playerbase (including myself) got into tarkov when some of the "milsim" youtubers had a few viral hits with tarkov and on the surface level it does seem like some other milsim type games and maybe thats how nikita wanted the game to be at the very start but it seems like a lot of these players have a hard time accepting that the game is going in a different direction and has been for many years already
things change and cant be changed back chud never complain just consume product
@@hydroxide5507 people can complain all they want bsg aint going to prioritise realism anytime soon