Actually flawed, yet still desirable: LEGO Crocodile Locomotive in review! 10277
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- An independent look at LEGO's third Swiss Ce 6/8 II "Crocodile" or Krokodil locomotive release, this one in the "for adults" range. Available at amzn.to/3grZjeE -- If you use my affiliate links I may get a tiny commission to help keep the channels going!
See my easy fixes to derailing & gap issues at • LEGO Crocodile Locomot...
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See my easy *fixes* for derailing issues & unsightly cab gaps at ua-cam.com/video/KSKqlwXFTxU/v-deo.html
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Yes a *momentary visual glitch exists* near the beginning which everyone sees; the glitch is not there in my source project file and cannot be fixed now.
As always, all comments are moderated per the policy linked in the video description. Spam like "first" is removed before anyone sees it to keep the focus on real discussion!
ok
Are you going to make the loco shorter so it could go around bends?
Try and shorten the length of the wheel position as it will be more stable as when you look at where it is positioned on the tracks it has an awkward time on getting to stay there
Ok
That’s to bad about the wheel base I was going so ask for this for Christmas (I’m 12) but now if it does not go on the track no I wont ask for it :(. Jang what do u think about the new technic Bell Boeing MV 22 Osprey? I thought is was pretty cool :) have a good day Jang
Jang goes into train dad mode, "i'm not mad, just disappointed...." Engineer cap wilts visibly
When JANG is upset, should we call it Jangry?
He seemed to be QUITE jangry with this set.
Hahahahaha yes
Ok
Maybe
Yes! Lol
The aspect I really admire about Jang is his constructive criticism. Unlike other Lego youtubers who complain and whine about Lego flaws, Jang points out the bad, but doesn’t let it take away from a good Lego set. Thanks Jang.
A shame the torsos resemble that of American train personnel and not period appropriate Swiss uniforms.
Ok
I agree!!!
Probably due to the fact that it’s cheaper to find a pre-existing torso that works perfectly fine than to design and print a new one.
@@maticstudios but it doesn't work perfectly fine; that's the point.
Mod it so it doesn’t derail? Maybe more weight at the ends? There must be a solution. Nevertheless an amazing display piece.
Completely agree - Emerald Night has similar issues with the fake wheels around curves which are solvable using quite well known mods in the AFOL community, don't see why this couldn't happen here
Ive seen people already do it and their setups have lots of turns in tracks also #youcandoitjang
Fixed! ua-cam.com/video/KSKqlwXFTxU/v-deo.html
I knew u would #legolegend. #jangforreal
@jang lets see it in action choo choo
"I even got a hat for the occasion and I can't even wear it" that cracked me up haha. Thanks for the review Jang. Was waiting for your review of this set
Disappointment
I would really like to see you modify this train to run on your layout and a vid showing what you did. I'm really curious.
Me too!
Yaa
Done! ua-cam.com/video/KSKqlwXFTxU/v-deo.html
@@JANGBRiCKS awesome.
Again, thank you for the anti-clickbait titles! Love that this is the standard practice now.
this is seriously the most devastating moment on the channel. Dude even bought a hat, my prayers go out to you man
Maybe if you put a weight in each articulated section of the train it would help with stopping derailments?
mine never derailed, I use a fairly large track and full speed
Here are my fixes: ua-cam.com/video/KSKqlwXFTxU/v-deo.html
we always know when JANG has something to say when he finishes showing us the minifigs and we aren’t even halfway through the review 😅
JANGBRiCKS
I got the wierd spare brown piece aswell that you were talking about at 7:08, i thought i had assembled it wrong but kinda glad to see someone else has it too!!!!!!
They're still putting it in the sets. I hope the idea is that for pieces which are commonly used in pairs, giving an even number of pieces makes it easier to use them in MOCs. I'm almost certainly wrong, but it would be nice if they did.
I have this, love it ever since I first saw the picture, I knew I wanted it so got it day one, I am surprised it went on out of stock so quickly
Have you tried running it around a train track loop?
@JANGBRiCKS at 9:29 the term you were looking for is "Flange". Though we'll often refer to them as "blind wheels". Just looking at the set and the ball connectors I was a little concerned with the build and it's ability to stay on the rails, as often lack of weight can be an issue with model train derailments.
I really respect your accurate explanation regarding the cab controls and dials.
I’ve come back to this channel from about a 1 year break and it’s such a pleasure t sour use to see jangbricks face in the videos now from just having his hands in view!
Hey Jang, great review. As a bit of a train buff, I was blown away when I saw this. Is there actually a way to connect all three driving wheels with rods, or does the Lego geometry not allow it at all? (obviously just for display, I'm aware that it won't go around Lego tracks then).
Btw, the locomotove from set #4551 you showed most likely was not modelled after this locomotive (swiss crocodile), but after the 'german crocodile' (DR classes E94 / E93, DB classes 194 / 193, which also ran in Austria after the war as class 1020), which has a much more angular and boxy design, and a more modern drivetrain without big spoked wheels and connecting rods.
I totally agree, I immediately noticed the mis-arranged driving wheels with rods. It’s definitely possible to connect the wheels for display with a long enough beam. I plan on developing a way to swivel the two noses along an axle which is powering the driving wheels under the cab in LDD to hopefully achieve more realism.
that is a good-looking locomotive
See, this makes me want to set up an entire table of LEGO trains. Unfortunately I cannot as I’m about to go to college, but maybe one day! Great review as always Jang!
Well, through all your reviews...the cadence and timbre of your voice seems to inspire one with a sense of absolute credulity. The honest impressions and suggestions to alleviate or remedy certain possible negatives are something that are no found on most other reviews. Decided to get two of these before retirement. Thanks for all you reviews.
Been waiting for this review since the set was announced!
I think it needs more weight over the very front wheels.
Even easier: ua-cam.com/video/KSKqlwXFTxU/v-deo.html
While watching this in Bed my wife says "Wow his voice is so familiar to me, he is like the third person in our marriage"... :S
I got mine a few days ago and really like it. It adds quite a bit to my layout and has quite a bit of power using the Powered Up Large Technic Motor. I haven't had any derailment issues, but my layout is not as advanced as his.
Jang, I don't known if you've seen it but your review was discussed on Eurobricks and apparently the derailments happen reguarly on 9v track. This is because the metal plates on top of the track are bumpier than RC track making it more uneven. The derailments happen because the train uses ball joints which have 3 axes of movement and realistically it only needs 1 (maybe 2 for steep inclines). This extra movement allows it to bounce off the rails. One suggestion was removing the rubber bands and the driving wheels that are not powered.
I’d love a LEGO train series in the vain of Speed Champions, one of my favorite LEGO series ever. Actually, real life models
I think the ends keep derailing because they are so light; there is not enough force to keep them glued to the track around curves. I am not familiar with the specific design of this set, but if there is a way to add some ballast (fishing sinkers, BBs, etc.) to the front ends it might help with the derailing issue.
I still think this is an amazing set, despite the flaws. Thats the great thing about LEGO, you can take it apart and modify it, removing any flaws. If this was a normal Model Train (such as a Bachmann Loco), it would be harder to fix, especially for a child or non-modeller.
I think the derailing is the ball joints. It needs to be something like the arm used on the Hogwarts to handle any slightly off angles. Oddly, when I did my review it didn’t come off, even with aftermarket crossovers. But, as soon as I’d finished it did a few times. Lol! Timing is everything!
First thing I'd try, to sort out the derailment problem, is add weight to the problem areas. See if that helps. Next thing I'd try is to swap the balljoints with just side-to-side joints, to see if the vertical movement is the problem. If all your other trains, of various builds & lengths work, I'd guess one or both of those factors is the cause.
Flange, lol, I know I'm a kid, 55 and it still makes me laugh. Flange is the part of the train wheel that Jang was looking for, or more precisely flange means, " first created the effect by slowing down tape by putting his finger on the part of the tape spool called the flange, I also assume as they were big kids too they probably liked the word for it's slang connotations too.
As a train fan I’m excited to see this set and I hope LEGO does more trains!
I got this train when it came out, I am pleased, although I haven't run it yet because I don't have the motor.
One problem I had whilst building it, typically when things need to be repeated I do both simultaneously so I can get ahead, and as a train fan I take it for granted that trains although look mirrored have minor details that stick out making each side different, but the instructions did not indicate that I had to repeat the process with the noses until the last panel and that was irritating to me a little.
I don't regret getting it, I do love it, I am sad to see it has problems on your layout, and thank Awdry you got that same extra piece I did, that bugged me for a while as to what I was missing xD!
How about removing the rubber bands around the wheels thus lowering them to the track to prevent derailings?
A: the “rubber band” is part of the wheel. You can’t remove it.
B: it’s not a problem with the wheels, but with the weight of ends. They are too light to stay on the track.
MUHROMATIC Actually, no it’s not. I watched the build video and the rubber bands are seperate pieces.
I think if you removed the rubber bands, the plastic wheels on plastic track wouldn't get enough traction
@@maticstudios Of course you can remove the rubber bands. Agree with the weight of the ends as cause.
After doing some diagnosis work I thought that would be one part of a multi-step solution requiring some additional modifications, but nope, just removing the bands did enough! ua-cam.com/video/KSKqlwXFTxU/v-deo.html
Railway wheels that built without the lip/flange are often referred to as "blind" wheels. Many full size steam locomotives had blind drive wheels to help them take curves more easily.
I'm still kinda perturbed I missed out on the Emerald Night. I really want a lego steam locomotive and I like the green of the Emerald.
I am learning so much about trains today. Thanks Jang!
If there's room, it might help to experiment adding weights over the axles and see if this reduces the derailments. In the UK as plastic railroad models are relatively lightweight, they add steel weights to help with the traction and also negotiate tight curves.
Happy 4th Jang
Ok
Hey jang, a fix for the Train could be to make it heavier. Put some stones or metal in the two engine compartments, that could possibly help. It forces the wheels to always have contact with the tracks😃 -sorry if my English isn’t the best, I don’t know the technical terms are for it
That background music brings back memories. Thank you Jang, I really do like the new format.
Finally got my hands on this. Fixed the gap issue, and also fixed what was a major problem for me - the drivers from the electric motors (the discs between the wheels of the drive units) should turn at wheel speed, not be stationary. Have yet to run it, hopefully my track is flat enough to avoid the derailing issues Jang experienced.
Another really good video from my favourite UA-camr. 😁
Oh wow this is the first I’ve ever seen your face in, *years!* ....Like I mean back sense 2012!
Your voice will always be a memory in my head
Great to hear your thoughts JANG! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for such an honest review mate. Please, please make a video about modifying this and fixing the problems you have and put it on your city Chanel, thanks mate
A total surprise with a new train set on this level. More trains LEGO!
It’s clearly a display set first and foremost, despite efforts to make it more playable.
It’s a very beautiful LEGO set too, one of the best I’ve seen says a LEGO fan since the 70s😄
Great review as always👍
Mabe more wheight on the front axis would help with the derailing.
Your review resembles my opinion about this set. I think you got the exactly the point. Your explanation of the differences between model and real thing was perfect and unfortunately for Lego necessary.
Just some additional remarks:
The 4551 is not a "crocodile", but the German DR E94 or (later) DB 194 or the Austrian ÖBB 1022.
A "crocodile" in the proper sense is just the Swiss SBB Ce 6/8 II or SBB Ce 6/8 III, but yes the term "crocodile" got somewhat "watered down" nowadays.
The things that makes a wheel a railway wheel is called "flange" (Spurkranz in German).
The scale of standard(!) Lego locomotives is of course wrong when it comes to length: The standard Track gauge is 1435 mm (in Lego around 5 studs) the width of a locomotive is around 3100 mm (this would be nearly 10 studs!) and the length of a locomotive is nearly 20 m, the SBB Ce 6/8 III is 19460 mm to be exact and that would be 60(!) studs for a Lego model. And the 10277 ist quite good with 56 studs (buffer to buffer).
That is the reason for the "not so good" driving characteristics. But the locomotive runs better when it is driven by a motor and has some railroad cars to pull. It still derails sometimes ... you can add some extra weight to the front section (two bigger nuts for example) in step 165. At least this works for me.
... until I will rebuild it as a "nearly MOC" ...
A way of putting this in your city could be as a memorial with the train on display because of its history. Kind of like what they have at train museums.
the proper term for a wheel that doesn't "touch" is flangeless. Lionel has done this with their trains for years and the first time we saw this on a Lego train was the Emerald Night. It allows for tighter turns, the wheel without the flange does touch the rails but it doesn't hug the rails like the wheels with the flange does.
as far as the derailments, there isn't enough weight on the lead truck.
My wife and I just finished building this set and we too had an extra 28192 reddish-brown slope piece. Its such a large extra piece i had to revisit your video to make sure it was meant to be an extra. Perhaps lego is including more than indicated in the instructions. I won't complain.
I realized also when I put my old power functions in it, you can’t put the roof back on completely, it can’t stud into place and it hits the connector
With all it’s problems like the oversized looking pantographs I love this locomotive. All for more LEGO trains and I can’t wait for the next cargo train
I didn’t expect this train to be that big! That’s a nice surprise for sure. Too bad it doesn’t work well on rails but the model, price and volume are fantastic! This just might be my first Lego train :)
HE EVEN GOT A HAT. Dedication!
The brown finish is very prototypical on many of the first group of Krokodils, built by Oerlikon between 1919 and 1929. They also run in a dark green livery, depending on the region and the build series (A, B, C, etc.). The design is over 100 years old (102 as of 2021), and quite a few were built. They've stood up well, and with regular maintenance have kept running on the Gotthard sub, and probably elsewhere. They're not doing daily mainline service (officially retired in 1985), but still can be seen doing yard switching some days and they're a favorite locomotive on railfan excursion trains. I've also seen them running as motive power behind snow blowers or snow plows. The raised plate on the top of each end is similar to the top side on the prototype - there's a great big cooling fan underneath that sounds like a jet engine spooling up.
I guess we were wrong when we thought it would be able to handle elevated track during the live stream. Bummer
I figure this makes more sense to say here instead of the video on the derailment fix- aside from the issues, I hope this is something Lego keeps doing! There's a pretty sizable community of train and lego fans, and personally, I'd love to see them do more collector-level locomotives.
Really appreciate the Emerald Night comparison! Thanks
It is kinda funny, how I grow up as an Märklin boy, and now as Im nearing 60, im in to Lego train set. The boy inside you, never goes away.
I'd like to hear what Jang said within that minute break and have a whole on rant about it
Aww I was really looking forward to putting it on my track
Hi Jang, sorry to see the sadness.
A possible fix would be to make the ends independent cars connected to the center section with articulated drawbars like the Emerald Nights front truck?
For custom builders, if you remove the nose ends you get a pretty neat fictional euro-styled boxcab electric. ;)
I have the Emerald Night, and I really didn't expect the crocodile to be bigger than that steam engine!
12:01: Oh look, it still has the old DB logo with the Antiqua letters. I had the old 7720 and 7710 as well as the 7745. My favourite was the 7740 but that was EoL by that time so I didn't have it.
Any train design with a single axle after an articulation presents issues, the 8 axle locomotives I made: dd40x and dd35 work perfectly with 2 axles-articulation-2 axles in a bogie, but if you make the bogie with single axle-articulation-2 axles-articulation-1 axle presents issues, with this locomotive you should pair the axles that are closer, small-big, big-big, big big, big-small and all of them with all wheels flanged, you should get 4 big flanged wheels more and make a great arrengment, not easy but thats where you can show off a design.
Jang ended up just putting removing the rubber bands and that fixed it?
Do you have any pictures or videos of those engines? I saw the MOCs on your channel and they look pretty awesome.
im interested in why this locomotive struggles to turn. ive been building a big boy locomotive with all 16 main wheels being powered, and it turns just fine. perhaps with a little fiddling a fix could be found. however, stunning set, for both looks and price, hope lego stay with a similar formula
The fix was silly simple: ua-cam.com/video/KSKqlwXFTxU/v-deo.html
Wow I would love to see pictures or videos of your engine. Now that is something LEGO has to make. A LEGO Big Boy would sell like gangbusters. I wonder if they would make new wheels for it, since Big Boy doesn't use the spoked wheels.
11:00 you may can add a spring (from a ballpoint) on each front end to push down the front wheels at the track.
me: "which way is the front?"
Jang: "Yes."
Jang small rant is really funny!
If LEGO is now basing their trains off of real ones now, that's great!
I'd hope to see a UP 4000-Class locomotive or a Santa Fe F-7 unit!
Are the articulated ends perhaps too light in weight causing them to be pushed off the track? And perhaps adding weight to them fixes your problem? If possible ofcourse.
Was waiting for this review before I purchased it! Certainly will pick it up now
I can actually feel your stress about this set, while it's a beautiful looking train ... I am seriously doubting to get this now... I hope you modify it so can run smoothly around your train layout!!!
Can’t wait to by this one! Will add it to my city!!!
Hey JANG I love your videos and God bless u man😊
I think the first one (4551) wasn't so much inspired by the Swiss Crocodile, but mostly based on the German DRG E93/E94 or the related Austrian ÖBB 1020. Even though those were also commonly named Crocodile, they had nothing in common with the Swiss one.
About this new one, I'd say they should had made it just for display, so they could have easily have fixed most of the flaws. I still intend to buy it though, and hope there will be more sets like this.
It is actually the second ce6/8 , the first locomotive in your video was based on the E94, a German locomotive.
19:40 - 'If you want the connecting rods to go across, build your own thing'
I... I did that, about 3 months before this set was announced 😂😂😂
To be honest I'm glad I jumped the gun though, as I can see strengths and flaws in 2 different takes on this loco.
I don't see the problem with the 'fake' driving wheel myself - the emerald night has them too, apparently it's a common technique for larger steam locos.
Thankyou for the review; I'm sorry it doesn't run around your layout yet, but I am sure you will think up a way to mod those articulated joints to make it stay on track 😊
Sounds cool. Got any pictures or videos of your engine?
Fortunately Jang was able to find some very easy fixes for the isssues.
Hey Jang, just as a trouble shooting thing, can you give it a run with the coupler/frontwheel assemblies taken off? I have a theory that the pivot for that front bit is just a smidge too loose...
Very cool. Thank you jang!
Hmm maybe if there was more weight on the nose it wouldn’t derail as much? I think the forwardmost joint for the little wheels doesn’t really need the up and down articulation because it’s so light that it likely just jumps off the track (I suppose at least) perhaps coupling some cars on the rear could solve it for one side at least
I’m collecting Lego trains to make a large city area out of Lego. This will be a nice change from the hidden side or ninjago ones that explode or turn into weird monster things
@Jangbricks, it doesn't matter if the tracks are perfectly flat or not. The locomotive is badly designed and will derail anyways. I tested it on a full 9V track circle the crocodile derails after about 4 loops medium speed and cannot even handle full speed. But it kinda works on RC (plastic) track circle at full throttle. I didn't try different layouts since I was so frustrated with the results. There isn't enough weight on the nose sections and the floating wheel + less friction on 9V tracks throws the back end quickly off track. It's a real disappointment for 9V train lovers if 10277 keeps derailing on standard R40 curves. All the other trains work perfectly on LEGO tracks as you mentioned. Now I understand why the set is 18+ display only. Waste of money to motorize it imo unless you improve the design. I could suggest putting some weights at the ends (e.g. lego weight brick) and change the ball joints to turntables.
Sorry you've had the same troubles even on a flat surface. I was referred to a video showing the loco derailing on plastic track as well. I've been working on a couple of fixes to issues and will follow up soon with a video that should help.
This is the reason why I always wait for your review ! What in the world about the curves
Try more weight on the wheels in both fronts
Well, actually the first one was based on the German crocodile, and closely resembles the livery it had with the Austrian railways
Great review bought this Tuesday and still haven’t built it but great job
During that one minute break Jang destroy the locomotive and then put it back together.
At 7:08, there are 12 of those pieces used, not 7. There are 3 on each of the 4 corners of the center section of the locomotive. The set comes with 13 of them.
Just wanna say that i love your videos, especially the ones like this (and all the train vids) please keep up the good work!
It seems like the ball joints in the noses could be allowing them to roll around turns due to a limit in weight, perhaps try adding a Lego Ballast piece into the noses (or under the noses if there's enough room) and see if the added weight allows noses to pitch properly?
This looks very cool, great review jang
Sad that you could not make it work in your layout. I will buy that set anyway, I know I would regret it if I didn't. Great review, I could almost see the tears in your eyes.
I had the same problem with the derailment, but after I added freight Cars I can drive it full speed over turns.
The emerald night also has issues with standard track. It can get stuck when the track dips slightly and the drive wheels in the middle lift up, and it often derails on r40 switches. It's a problem due to the comically tight radius of standard Lego track. I (and most lego train fans I know) use aftermarket wide radius (2-3x larger) track, and haven't heard of the derailing issue so far. Maybe Lego is quietly designing for the intended user.
Amazing as always
Pretty disappointing. I really want this to sell well to encourage Lego to do more ‘expert’ train sets and accessories, but they’ve sort of set it up to fail. The crocodile locomotive is a fairly obscure design and the colour isn’t exactly attractive so not sure how well this is going to sell. As you say the design is clearly flawed which is an unnecessary shame. I’m not rushing out to get it, and I love lego trains.
It is somewhat obscure, but it's interesting, and maybe the novelty of such an unusual train will drive interest.
Apparently the set sold out in an hour and now has a 1 and half month wait on it. Not sure how many were made though. Jang had some easy fixes for the issues he did in a new video he linked at the end of the video and in the comments.