The EPA is worried more about civilians and a small car culture, than GIANT corporations and what not that pollute like NO OTHER and just buy their way out of it and laugh in the EPA’s face. Other countries pollute so dam much it’s not even funny, and they want to put the squeeze on a small company like Cobb, so uncalled for.
WHAT A FKN CORRUPT GOVERMENT ENTITY...AMONGST MANY OTHER GOVT' 3 LETTER AGENCIES, EPA NEEDS TO BE DEEPLY INVESTIGATED. THE REGULATORS THEMSELVES AND THE LAWS THEY UPHOLD ALL SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO CONSTITUTIONAL LAW !!!!
@@Roadwarriorex It’s all about money for them, and squashing the little guys who can’t just pay them off like giant conglomerates who are the real problem on the daily, not our little car community.
Thank God they are going after a literal handful of enthusiasts instead of an insane amount of trucks on the road out of spec, USPS vehicles as well, basically all business entities with transport.
@@stevemartegani Maybe in your area, but in the Los Angeles area, you see/hear FedEx/Ups/USPS truck that are so DAM loud, and you know they are not compliant to pass smog, it sounds like they don’t even have Cats on their trucks.
I think the most worrying part of this settlement agreement is that Cobb "must, to the extent possible, *_force updates to end-users_* to remove the delete features"
@justinf7674 well, they couldn't really 100% force an update on everyone, but they absolutely could release new off the shelf tunes or "updates" to current tunes that don't list that one of the things changed/updated is to forcefully deletes any bypasses your old tune had when you flash it and stops any reverting to older files and tunes afterwards... the only real safe option going forward if you rely on bypasses is to NEVER update or download anything from Cobb for your accessport ever again. By the letter of the agreement, all that would be "to the extent possible" because it CAN be done, even if it's not cheap or easy per say...
Is there a place where everyone can push back on the EPA regarding these ridiculous mandates? I come from the environmental industry, and I can honestly say that unregulated methane emissions from underground coal mining is HANDS DOWN worse than anything car enthusiasts are doing.
Most of this emissions equipment actually makes the cars run less efficient hence having to burn more fuel and create more pollutants. The emissions equipment may work initially, but starts to degrade after several thousand miles. EGR valves for example how they carbon up in a very short time frame and when working correctly pump exhaust back into the intake manifold… how is that actually good for the engine? Look at the air pump for example on a 2013 STi they have a high failure rate and it’s basically just falsifying the real emissions values. TGV’s kick in initially at start up and then block airflow that robs performance which loses power and burns more fuel. I’m cool with high flow performance style catalytic converters and real wide band performance O2 sensors multiples installed per cylinder so you can actually tune the engine per cylinder. That’s how it should be if you wanna get fancy throw some EGT‘s on there and get these manufacturers to actually have these computers running like Motec standalone ECU you’ll have a very efficient car.
You are right it was diesel that led us here, but it wasn’t the OE it was the diesel deletes and rolling coal. I read an article (I wish I could remember where it was) that said the EPA had no interest in the aftermarket deletes, but once people started complaining about the diesels they basically had to enforce it for gas cars. There was no fair way to let gas people delete but clamp down on diesel bros rolling coal.
One of my biggest questions i'd like answered is, what does a basic emissions hangar test look like on a well tuned catless turbo back exhaust setup look like, compared to a stock cat stock tune hangar test? Is it possible to tune a catless subaru (stock turbo/injectors) full bolt ons, to pass a emissions hangar test?
Aside from maybe CA, no state in the US does any type of sniffer or roller test. IM247 is purely a OBD II computer compliance test, and there is ZERO ability to petition to manually test. You still want a converter, but you can have one that flows well and still performs well. None of that matters since you can't test. It's all or nothing with the EPA, either you're OEM compliant or you're breaking the law
And by OBD II Computer compliance test, that's the scope of this issue. Catalyst testing is part of the test, and cobb used to be able to shut that test off, or tell the computer to stop reporting any issues for converter codes. Cobb got in trouble for simply providing the option for tuners, rather than holding tuners/owners responsible for road-registered vehicles
@@AzureCrux Absolutely correct, however what i'm saying is, I'd like to see the raw data regardless of regulations. Pure curiosity. I understand the EPA, OEM compliant, IM247 stuff is reality we live in, and that isn't what I care about at all. I want to see the raw data. I want to see an independent source test an oem tune, oem wrx sti, and compare the results of particulates to a well tuned full bolt on, stock injector stock turbo wrx sti. I appreciate you explaining, But unfortunately your info wasn't what I was looking for.
Love your videos, thanks for going into such detail. Do you think there ever be a carb compliant down pipe from COBB? I’m wondering if I should wait or buy one now before it’s no longer possible.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question. There is a lot that would have to change currently to get to the point where a company could produce a higher flow CARB approved down pipe. It is absolutely possible, but I have no idea how long it will take until it is something that we could actually put on our cars. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you for your response! It’s weird because I assumed that the Gesi cats were super clean as well as efficient…that’s unfortunate, but I appreciate the info!
Cobb is consciously not returning Flex fuel to 2002- 2007 Subaru's. Otherwise complying would be great, if they allowed testing before immediately up banning things
Thanks for your question. Definitely go and read through the statements. Cobb was specifically fined for selling catted down-pipes, which is why they have discontinued them, but other manufacturers seem to be taking them down as well. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned
Thank you, That's a huge deal no? Wouldn't that effectively kill the ability to tune any turbo vehicle beyond just basic stage 1 variables? All the work to create green tunes and CARB certified maps and tuning devices just went out the window if you cannot modify the turbo output.
Nice discussion enjoyed listening Been playing the performance car/SMOG check game for a lotta years. IMO it always should have been about what’s coming out the tailpipe Who cares how you get the results as long as it passes the test. No $$$ for the gov in that though What scares me now is what you guys touched on briefly, the changing standards A fool proof way to force “undesirable” cars off the road Passed last year Gross polluter this year same emissions
From personal experience, the emissions testing facilities in the Denver metro are looking at the engine calibration number. So if you have a tune that is loaded on your ECU that is not "CARB" approved they will fail you. This probably means they have a database at the emissions testing place with engine calibration numbers for all model/makes that have tunes other than OEM that have an EO number from CARB. I spoke with an individual at a "Technical Emissions" facility which is different then the normal emissions testing place and he stated that Denver is following the same emissions standards as California. I am not sure what that means for anyone outside of the Denver metro area though. I am attempting the rapid screen route even with all CARB approved parts and tune to see if I can skip the whole emissions facility path.
@bog1e If thats the case in Denver then I have some good news for you... They only have the ECU data for vehicles newer than 2005. If you have a protune on a 2005 or older ECU, they can't tell and probably won't check either.
So because they discontinued their downpipes, can other parts, (like an invidia dp), be used with some ots maps or would it have to be with a tuner and no accessport? I have a ‘13 wrx I want to modify but now I’m confused on how to do it right
Serious question, how much emissions is generated into the environment during the production of a new $50,000 car versus removing the cat from a 30 year old car to keep it on the road?
Yeah ultimately, you CAN run converters that have no issues, but exhaust manufacturers have been just pushing that off to tuners. They're gonna have to do it right if they're gonna want to continue to be around. This is also why GESI DPs are so expensive
Epa took the efi live tool from the shop I got it from and now all the tunes off that devise are confiscated and my stuff no longer works even the tech at efi live helped me try to hack it just to run the truck. Had to start over completely
I see a lot of babies crying about the EPA. Hopefully, these babies understand that EPA is what stopping corporation from just dumping toxins into the drinking water and trying to make sure there is clean air to breathe. If these babies really want to yell at someone, they should blame it for those rolling coal 💩 trucks.
WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN MILITARY FLEETS AND THEIR EMISSION NON COMPLIANCE !!!???? OUR OWN MILITARY PUTS OUT SO MUCH EMISSIONS THAT IT RANKS #7 WHEN COMPARED TO ALL NATIONS/COUNTRIES OUTPUT !!! PLUS, HOW COME ALL THE GOVT VEHICLES ARE DELETED ALREADY FROM THE FACTORY !!!!! "RULES FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME" !!! IF THEY REALLY CARED ABOUT THE EARTH AND ITS WELL BEING, THEY WOULD TAKE ALL OF THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT HAVE BEEN BLACK BOXED OR SHELVED BECAUSE IT WOULD DISRUPT THE PETRO DOLLAR SYSTEM TOO MUCH !!
Great update vid! Ive been contemplating on buying a cobb accessport, really not looking for a OTS tune. Bater Built is kind enough to tune my car and hes advised me to go pick one up. Your videos have really helped me decide what each part does on these subies and taught me so much! coming from a honda background this is all new to me!
I just don’t understand why the epa is fining tuner companies. Like what is the real reason. Because with all this fining people there has been no change in the environment… where specifically is the money going. I wonder what the people of the epa drive to work?
Yeah the EPA worried air 😂😂😂 what about the chem-trails you guys allowed bullshit excuses to make money the EPA main director smoking a cigarette right now 😂😂😂
The problems I have with tuners and their customers. 1: the customer is tuning a vehicle for street use. 2: these people are mostly reckless individuals driving as tho commuting is a race. 3: these individuals have no regards for their own safety much less the safety of others. 4: y'all are the biggest hacks in the industry. 5: if street tuners actually put their money where their mouth was they would get owned on the track. 6: if you are tuning a performance automobile to be performing there is no place for that on the street. Take it to the track! 7: if you want to pose as a race car operator get off the public roads. 8 if you weren't poor and a loser you would build a real race car. 9: this is COBB and every Subaru owner is coping that this car brand is never going to make power to dollars invested. 10: a half tuned 96 civic will put the hurt on a Subaru any day of the week. 11: Subaru doesn't win races. Its a money pit for enthusiasts that are afraid to buy a boat.
Some valid points there, however some of what you typed is just being antagonistic. There isnt a motorhead out there that doesnt understand their car is a moneypit with diminishing returns so that snide comment of subarus being not worth spending on is tacky at best. I would say at least where I live subarus cruise and stay safe even when given upgrades, its bmws, toyotas, audis that are the raceboy menaces. Overall though you bring up proper points on safety. The subaru hate boner is real tho.
2:15 I always thought this was the reason (or at least one of them) why automakers made it so difficult to alter the tune electronically in the first place.
F the epa button
The EPA is worried more about civilians and a small car culture, than GIANT corporations and what not that pollute like NO OTHER and just buy their way out of it and laugh in the EPA’s face. Other countries pollute so dam much it’s not even funny, and they want to put the squeeze on a small company like Cobb, so uncalled for.
WHAT A FKN CORRUPT GOVERMENT ENTITY...AMONGST MANY OTHER GOVT' 3 LETTER AGENCIES, EPA NEEDS TO BE DEEPLY INVESTIGATED. THE REGULATORS THEMSELVES AND THE LAWS THEY UPHOLD ALL SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO CONSTITUTIONAL LAW !!!!
I'm not even tuned, but f the EPA is right!
@@Roadwarriorex It’s all about money for them, and squashing the little guys who can’t just pay them off like giant conglomerates who are the real problem on the daily, not our little car community.
@@NoNo-yb7ds yup. It's all about the money for a lot of things & corporations and really anything these days.
Thank God they are going after a literal handful of enthusiasts instead of an insane amount of trucks on the road out of spec, USPS vehicles as well, basically all business entities with transport.
Gotta look busy to make sure you don't lose your job.
@@SnowRaver-p2v Most of those delivery trucks have converted to EV here
@@stevemartegani Maybe in your area, but in the Los Angeles area, you see/hear FedEx/Ups/USPS truck that are so DAM loud, and you know they are not compliant to pass smog, it sounds like they don’t even have Cats on their trucks.
EPA: Are you compliant?
You: Yes.
EPA: Good we can move the goal posts again.
EXACTLY !!!!!!
EPA and ATF… why do they hate both of my favorite hobbies 🥲
Preach it brother ! We need to dismantle the 3 letter agencies !!!!
I think the most worrying part of this settlement agreement is that Cobb "must, to the extent possible, *_force updates to end-users_* to remove the delete features"
How would that be possible?
@justinf7674 well, they couldn't really 100% force an update on everyone, but they absolutely could release new off the shelf tunes or "updates" to current tunes that don't list that one of the things changed/updated is to forcefully deletes any bypasses your old tune had when you flash it and stops any reverting to older files and tunes afterwards... the only real safe option going forward if you rely on bypasses is to NEVER update or download anything from Cobb for your accessport ever again. By the letter of the agreement, all that would be "to the extent possible" because it CAN be done, even if it's not cheap or easy per say...
@@bluegizmo1983 makes sense. I'm running the same custom tune I've had for 15 years with the original access port.
Are you going to have COBB on to talk about this?
Thanks for watching and thanks for the question. I'll definitely reach out to them to see if we can have a conversation about this.
Stay Tuned!
YES ! That is an excellent idea !!!!!
Is there a place where everyone can push back on the EPA regarding these ridiculous mandates? I come from the environmental industry, and I can honestly say that unregulated methane emissions from underground coal mining is HANDS DOWN worse than anything car enthusiasts are doing.
If you figure it out, let me know, and lets get this ball rolling so we can take our hobbies back without big bother telling us what to do.
Could they appeal and bring to the court’s attention to the Chevron Deference case?
Probably not since they settled.
This was an awesome conversation! Thanks for a great episode!
Absolutely! Thanks for watching DP!
Most of this emissions equipment actually makes the cars run less efficient hence having to burn more fuel and create more pollutants. The emissions equipment may work initially, but starts to
degrade after several thousand miles. EGR valves for example how they carbon up in a very short time frame and when working correctly pump exhaust back into the intake manifold… how is that actually good for the engine? Look at the air pump for example on a 2013 STi they have a high failure rate and it’s basically just falsifying the real emissions values. TGV’s kick in initially at start up and then block airflow that robs performance which loses power and burns more fuel. I’m cool with high flow performance style catalytic converters and real wide band performance O2 sensors multiples installed per cylinder so you can actually tune the engine per cylinder. That’s how it should be if you wanna get fancy throw some EGT‘s on there and get these manufacturers to actually have these computers running like
Motec standalone ECU you’ll have a very efficient car.
You are right it was diesel that led us here, but it wasn’t the OE it was the diesel deletes and rolling coal. I read an article (I wish I could remember where it was) that said the EPA had no interest in the aftermarket deletes, but once people started complaining about the diesels they basically had to enforce it for gas cars. There was no fair way to let gas people delete but clamp down on diesel bros rolling coal.
Thank you, John. Nice conversation, I m looking forward to more options for my 17 year old WRX.
Thanks for covering this! It's true this is mostly old news, but the downpipe details and removal from sites seems to be the big update.
One of my biggest questions i'd like answered is, what does a basic emissions hangar test look like on a well tuned catless turbo back exhaust setup look like, compared to a stock cat stock tune hangar test? Is it possible to tune a catless subaru (stock turbo/injectors) full bolt ons, to pass a emissions hangar test?
Great discussion by the way.
Aside from maybe CA, no state in the US does any type of sniffer or roller test. IM247 is purely a OBD II computer compliance test, and there is ZERO ability to petition to manually test. You still want a converter, but you can have one that flows well and still performs well. None of that matters since you can't test. It's all or nothing with the EPA, either you're OEM compliant or you're breaking the law
And by OBD II Computer compliance test, that's the scope of this issue. Catalyst testing is part of the test, and cobb used to be able to shut that test off, or tell the computer to stop reporting any issues for converter codes. Cobb got in trouble for simply providing the option for tuners, rather than holding tuners/owners responsible for road-registered vehicles
@@AzureCrux Absolutely correct, however what i'm saying is, I'd like to see the raw data regardless of regulations. Pure curiosity. I understand the EPA, OEM compliant, IM247 stuff is reality we live in, and that isn't what I care about at all. I want to see the raw data. I want to see an independent source test an oem tune, oem wrx sti, and compare the results of particulates to a well tuned full bolt on, stock injector stock turbo wrx sti. I appreciate you explaining, But unfortunately your info wasn't what I was looking for.
@@AzureCrux However if I have any questions about regulations, I found my new go to person! You know a lot of very useful information! thank you
Love your videos, thanks for going into such detail. Do you think there ever be a carb compliant down pipe from COBB? I’m wondering if I should wait or buy one now before it’s no longer possible.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question. There is a lot that would have to change currently to get to the point where a company could produce a higher flow CARB approved down pipe. It is absolutely possible, but I have no idea how long it will take until it is something that we could actually put on our cars.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you for your response! It’s weird because I assumed that the Gesi cats were super clean as well as efficient…that’s unfortunate, but I appreciate the info!
I took my cat off.
Go to jail.
I spilled 10 million gallons of fuel in the bay.
Collect your bonus check.
Cobb is consciously not returning Flex fuel to 2002- 2007 Subaru's. Otherwise complying would be great, if they allowed testing before immediately up banning things
Sorry, did catted downpipes get suddenly banned now? I feel like that's a really important piece of info that got brushed over.
Thanks for your question. Definitely go and read through the statements.
Cobb was specifically fined for selling catted down-pipes, which is why they have discontinued them, but other manufacturers seem to be taking them down as well.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned
Thank you,
That's a huge deal no? Wouldn't that effectively kill the ability to tune any turbo vehicle beyond just basic stage 1 variables? All the work to create green tunes and CARB certified maps and tuning devices just went out the window if you cannot modify the turbo output.
these people could have had a software company in Canada or Mexico and gotten away from the EPA hands.
I don't want a hellcat or tesla...lol
Nice discussion enjoyed listening
Been playing the performance car/SMOG check game for a lotta years. IMO it always should have been about what’s coming out the tailpipe Who cares how you get the results as long as it passes the test. No $$$ for the gov in that though
What scares me now is what you guys touched on briefly, the changing standards A fool proof way to force “undesirable” cars off the road Passed last year Gross polluter this year same emissions
I think you guys are far too complicit with the EPA and give them too much good will. That's really my only complaint.
the law is pretty black and white.
From personal experience, the emissions testing facilities in the Denver metro are looking at the engine calibration number. So if you have a tune that is loaded on your ECU that is not "CARB" approved they will fail you. This probably means they have a database at the emissions testing place with engine calibration numbers for all model/makes that have tunes other than OEM that have an EO number from CARB. I spoke with an individual at a "Technical Emissions" facility which is different then the normal emissions testing place and he stated that Denver is following the same emissions standards as California. I am not sure what that means for anyone outside of the Denver metro area though. I am attempting the rapid screen route even with all CARB approved parts and tune to see if I can skip the whole emissions facility path.
Yeah, like tune back to stock for inspection, then tune back with performance map.🤫
@@Carlos.Rivera yup exactly
Same in Fort Collins...
@bog1e If thats the case in Denver then I have some good news for you... They only have the ECU data for vehicles newer than 2005. If you have a protune on a 2005 or older ECU, they can't tell and probably won't check either.
@@stevemartegani nice that’s some good info right there
So because they discontinued their downpipes, can other parts, (like an invidia dp), be used with some ots maps or would it have to be with a tuner and no accessport? I have a ‘13 wrx I want to modify but now I’m confused on how to do it right
Serious question, how much emissions is generated into the environment during the production of a new $50,000 car versus removing the cat from a 30 year old car to keep it on the road?
Hopefully, they will fix P0420.. im running aftermarket downpipe with catt.. been dealing with dumb P0420 codes
Yeah ultimately, you CAN run converters that have no issues, but exhaust manufacturers have been just pushing that off to tuners. They're gonna have to do it right if they're gonna want to continue to be around. This is also why GESI DPs are so expensive
@@AzureCrux Gesi might not trip codes, but they technically still violate the CAA because they only have one cat instead of two.
I'm curious if the epa has an issue with air oil separators. Because that could help emissions, but modifies oem pcv hose routings.
Christ.....
EPA: no, we won't ever allow 600cc Kei cars to be sold on this soil
Also EPA: Let diesel roll allll the coal!
except its not how corry willis was treated.
Now all the defoulers at every parts store?
Advocate for environmental awareness and conclude the video with a comment regarding, “a Tesla being a good performance alternative”. Is this real?
i would love to buy more cobb silicone hose but cant find it by itself
Epa took the efi live tool from the shop I got it from and now all the tunes off that devise are confiscated and my stuff no longer works even the tech at efi live helped me try to hack it just to run the truck. Had to start over completely
I see a lot of babies crying about the EPA. Hopefully, these babies understand that EPA is what stopping corporation from just dumping toxins into the drinking water and trying to make sure there is clean air to breathe. If these babies really want to yell at someone, they should blame it for those rolling coal 💩 trucks.
Literally getting my VA tomorrow, this is such a joke
Guy on the right a paralegal or something?
He is the top Subaru tuner in Colorado.
@@petemenninger6319 Then why's he a wannabe lawyer too?
i understand it and im ok with it, but i cant get behind Harvey, he seems soo strange, almost like epa paid him lol.
This is for stuff done pre 2017, thats looks like a hell of a deal to stop the legal bills and move on.
WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN MILITARY FLEETS AND THEIR EMISSION NON COMPLIANCE !!!???? OUR OWN MILITARY PUTS OUT SO MUCH EMISSIONS THAT IT RANKS #7 WHEN COMPARED TO ALL NATIONS/COUNTRIES OUTPUT !!! PLUS, HOW COME ALL THE GOVT VEHICLES ARE DELETED ALREADY FROM THE FACTORY !!!!! "RULES FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME" !!! IF THEY REALLY CARED ABOUT THE EARTH AND ITS WELL BEING, THEY WOULD TAKE ALL OF THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT HAVE BEEN BLACK BOXED OR SHELVED BECAUSE IT WOULD DISRUPT THE PETRO DOLLAR SYSTEM TOO MUCH !!
Thank you for having a legit, down to earth discussion about this!
Too many people are overreacting to this story, its basically old news.
Government overreach is always important.
@@ghostpunkkilla Dam right it is, you give them an inch, they will take a foot and then some every dam time !
Great update vid! Ive been contemplating on buying a cobb accessport, really not looking for a OTS tune. Bater Built is kind enough to tune my car and hes advised me to go pick one up.
Your videos have really helped me decide what each part does on these subies and taught me so much!
coming from a honda background this is all new to me!
✌️👽Mid Night Club 🤫😷😎🛸👍
Wish my profits were so high i could just pay a 3M fine to see it go away.
One of the main reasons I refuse to move from my 3rd world country to a 1st world country
The 3 letter government orginizations need to be reeled in,way too much power.
"This program is brought to you by Cobb Tuning" ...
Thanks VW…
I just don’t understand why the epa is fining tuner companies. Like what is the real reason. Because with all this fining people there has been no change in the environment… where specifically is the money going. I wonder what the people of the epa drive to work?
defund the EPA !! 🤣
Great video
Yeah the EPA worried air 😂😂😂 what about the chem-trails you guys allowed bullshit excuses to make money the EPA main director smoking a cigarette right now 😂😂😂
The problems I have with tuners and their customers.
1: the customer is tuning a vehicle for street use.
2: these people are mostly reckless individuals driving as tho commuting is a race.
3: these individuals have no regards for their own safety much less the safety of others.
4: y'all are the biggest hacks in the industry.
5: if street tuners actually put their money where their mouth was they would get owned on the track.
6: if you are tuning a performance automobile to be performing there is no place for that on the street. Take it to the track!
7: if you want to pose as a race car operator get off the public roads.
8 if you weren't poor and a loser you would build a real race car.
9: this is COBB and every Subaru owner is coping that this car brand is never going to make power to dollars invested.
10: a half tuned 96 civic will put the hurt on a Subaru any day of the week.
11: Subaru doesn't win races. Its a money pit for enthusiasts that are afraid to buy a boat.
Some valid points there, however some of what you typed is just being antagonistic.
There isnt a motorhead out there that doesnt understand their car is a moneypit with diminishing returns so that snide comment of subarus being not worth spending on is tacky at best.
I would say at least where I live subarus cruise and stay safe even when given upgrades, its bmws, toyotas, audis that are the raceboy menaces.
Overall though you bring up proper points on safety. The subaru hate boner is real tho.
Lmao
You must have a lot of time on your hands.
What exactly is a "Half tuned 96 Civic"?
2:15 I always thought this was the reason (or at least one of them) why automakers made it so difficult to alter the tune electronically in the first place.