What Makes a Good Cast of Game Villains?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 жов 2022
- ⚙️ Download GameMaker for free and start today: opr.as/GMDesign-Doc
Thanks to GameMaker for sponsoring the video!
Writing one villain is hard. But SEVEN villains? That’s like… twice as hard. So why go through the effort of creating a whole cast of villains for a game? Well, they can unlock group dynamics that you won’t get any other way. You just get a level of complexity that you can’t get from Johnny SingleBad. Let’s talk about how to build a bad team.
Featuring:
Mega Man
Persona 4
Metal Gear Solid 1, 3, and 4
Star Fox 64 AND Star Fox Adventures
Yakuza Zero
No More Heroes
Sonic Forces
Kingdom Hearts, mostly in B-roll though
Freedom Planet 2, in more B-roll. Go play Freedom Planet 2.
Patrons get ad-free episodes early, plus access to our behind-the-scenes podcast.
Support Design Doc on Patreon: / designdoc
Design Doc on Twitter: / warbot400
#yakuza #persona4 #gamedesign - Ігри
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
Download GameMaker for free and start today: opr.as/GMDesign-Doc
Paper Mario 64 is my fav game of all time, one of the strongest point of the game is that for each chapter, not only there is a new zone to explore, but also the boss or villains are related to the zone, and in a way it feels like u master the zone once u defat the boss un like paper mario the origami king that the boss is this random object like a scissor,.. so anticlimactic, also the fight are this small puzzle that got nothing to do with the boss or even the zone
😅😅😅😅😊@@ReyZar666
If you want to be a villain number 1, you have to chase a superhero on the run!
Just follow my moves, and sneak around! Be careful not to make a sound!
Nooo, don't touch that!
We are number one
Buh bumbnbanum bumbumbum.!
@@keybladeapologist.1131
WE ARE NUMBER ONE
*HEY!*
The extra solution, we give each villain REALLY good boss themes and have that carry the whole thing.
I love Metal Gear Rising.
I'll do something with Armstrong someday.
Don’t forget to make the final villain extra meme-able (and if he can talk about memes as he does it, all the better 🤣)
The villain team from Guilty Gear I love for this very reason alone
Sephiroth
They solved the problem of bosses giving out their entire life stories before battle by having them sing about it during their fight instead. Pure genius.
Villains that work against each other are amazing; I love watching bad guys getting screwed over.
You mean screwing themselves over.
chapter 8 of xenoblade 2 be like:
@@robo567
“To be honest, I don’t even know what I’m doing anymore.”
-Mikhail, a minute away from death
It can work if it doesn't go too far. Don't let the villains be the only reason they're getting defeated.
I also love villains that have a code and they kill the more despicable bad guy without the heroes help.
One thing I feel that casts of villans don't do enough is actually fight together. You usually only fight one villain at a time, but it's super co to see the villans actually fight you as a cohesive unit. Bonus points if they have some kind of special team attack.
And often when you do actually fight multiple villains at once, they are usually explicitly designed as a pair like with evil twins, lovers, etc. It's rare to see more "impromptu" team ups in villain groups. The only recent example that I can think of is a somewhat late fight in Freedom Planet 2 where you fight two of the more minor members of the main villain group as a surprise duo.
@@DesignDoc I think Kingdom Hearts 3 is another recent example. I was pleasantly surprised when some villains teamed up in the final stretch, it was something the series never did before. Fighting 3 'Norts at once was pretty epic.
Reminds me a bit of Bravely Default's Jobmasters in the remastered version: Though you fight each Jobmaster alone or in specific duos on your first time or in the first rematches, as you get to the latter cycles, the Jobmasters start to meet up with one another for various reasons, ranging from just spending time with friends, to more insiduous plots, culminating in the final cycle before the one that lets you go to the endgame dungeon; here, the Jobmasters outside of Eternia now fight against you as an actual team, retreating to the Duchy as they are defeated, and you then have to fight your way up through all the Jobmasters you've faced so far, except now they are in completely new specialist teams that are based around certain aspects of the combat system like using BP attacks, to faciliating barrages of magic attacks, to throwing every status effect they can at you. And if you're eager for even more, you get the option of fighting all of those teams again with no breaks in-between.
@@DesignDoc Trails of Cold Steel 3 did this as well.
Spoilers for CS3...
Zephyr and Red Constellation members team up with Ouroboros and the Ironbloods. I knew that ending was gonna be traumatic for Class VII after the first boss fight in the Gral.
In Xenoblade Chronicles 2 there is a group of villains that often brings two substantial members into a single fight, and if one is fighting alone, there is usually a plot reason. Xenoblade 3 also kind of does this a few times, but in a different way.
I think generally the reason this isn't seen too much is because having two villains in a fight sometimes means that one or both villains don't get the amount of attention the devs want to give them or that would make a good story, especially if you kill the bosses in the fight. Villains can often be as complex as the protagonists, but they usually don't get as much screen time.
I know it wasn't discussed here much, but my personal favorite villain types are those that feel like a family. They may argue and fight amongst reach other and may not see eye to eye all the time, but they still share the same goal. If enough time is given to them for proper development, it could make them out to be rather tragic. Like they could have been good people, but because of their actions, they must be dealt with. This is something I've always wanted to do as a writer, create a group of villains that feel like a family that could have readers feeling somewhat sympathetic towards them, while also understanding why the heroes must do what they do.
Xenoblade 2's Torna is pretty good for that vibe, they all care about each other and have good chemistry in scenes with multiple of them, but they also happen to kill a lot of innocents and plan to kill god and wipe out humanity.
@@talonhowe8131 Especially when you play through the DLC and understand where they come from.
@@AshXXMayftw Yeah, sometimes when thinking of Chapters 8 and 9 and Torna, I forget Rex is the main character and not Jin. Or even Amalthus, for that matter.
God of War is a good example of this as well since they're all the same pantheon of deities - though one could frame Kratos as the villain in his warpath against the gods
Ya. It worked good in Neo: The World Ends With You.
At first it wasn't obvious, but during the third act it was shown how antagonists used to be a "found family" bunch who got corrupted by an external force.
One thing I adore in my games is the idea of the trisection, where two separate groups of antagonists clash while also dealing with you. Sometimes it's every man for himself, sometimes temporarily allegiances are formed or broken. Some favorites off the top of my head are the Laguz/Daein/Begnion conflict in Fire Emblem 10, Pit vs. the Underworld and/or the Forces of Nature in Kid Icarus Uprising, and whatever that complex political web was in Final Fantasy Tactics.
We don't mention it directly but Freedom Planet 2 is great at this. The remnants of the first game's enemy force have a fun presence here where they'll occasionally clash with the new antagonists. The Flood in Halo 3 also get a fun moment where you get to fight alongside them briefly.
Guilty Gear has this which I like but it doesn't become fully realized until the end of Strive - the triarchy of antagonists - the Illuminati, Universal Will &"That Man" and their respective teams is framed pretty much as all out war with the protagonists but linearly slims down once Strive clears up 20+ years of fighting game ambiguity
Conveniently in Final Fantasy Tactics there was a track called Trisection in the OST lol
And without complexity, the purest example is Pokemon Emerald. You have two enemy Teams who mostly work against each other. And initially they're confused that you're stopping them in their tracks because you're not a member of the other squad.
The best part of Kid Icarus’ trisection is when the aliens show up and all three groups are like “okay, first aliens. Then each other”.
Sometimes you see two warring factions agree to take care of a third enemy first, but it’s rarer for three enemy forces to all agree “yeah, fourth guy’s gotta go”.
I like how this isn't just a lesson on video game villains but rather villains in literature in general.
@@jeffbrownstain Really? What's wrong with it then?
@@OhKayEl Nevermind that. Its a crap poster/troll. Only want you angry, nevermind it.
Yea, that’s what I’m here for
My favorite trope of a villain cast is the conference table that the villains need to sit at when their leader calls for a meeting.
It's always fun to see the villains personalities as they adjust in their seat, see how they deal with universal boredom and are forced to stomach each other since their OP leader is present.
A couple favorite of mine are KH's Org. XIII white room and the Bleach's Arrancar Hueco Mundo table.
I'd like to hear any other examples that stand out from others so I can check them out too.
The Theatre setting where Moebius's Consuls gather to either watch a battle go down and take bets, or to regroup and draw straws for who's next to take on Ouroboros.
God Hand intensifies.
One of my favourites of this trope is in Spectacular Spider-Man, where the Sinister Six discuss their previous battle with Spider-Man and strategize their next move while having a fine-dining dinner.
The scene's on UA-cam, if you wanna see it for yourself.
@@jurtheorc8117 the God Hand villain round table was so funny
YAYSAYSYASYAYSYAYSYYAYAYYASSYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS AND D GRAY MAN GOGMOMOEGMEGMOSOEMGO U CANNOT FORGET ABOUT D GRAY MAN AYSYASYYAYASSSS IT MY FAV ANIME/MANGA EVER YAYSYSAYYAYAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSS OMGOGMOGMOOMG UYAYAYAYAYY!!! THEY ALSO HAVE A DINNER TABLE SCENE YAYSAYYYAAAAAAASSSSSSSSS MY FAV ANIME/MANGA IS D GRAY MAN IN THE WHOLE WORLD UNIVERSE AND GALAXYYYYY OGMGOOMGMO YYAYYAYY YAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think my favourite group of villains is from Super Paper Mario- they're all memorable characters, they have hilarious group dynamics, and great sol scenes too.
True
I swear, every time someone mentions Psycho Mantis breaking the fourth wall.
A programmer loses his thigh high stripped socks.
I feel like teddie's fight in P4 is a representation of his fear that once he finds out who he truly is, he finds out hes a monster
In the original Japanese (and to a degree in English), it’s implied that Teddie is blocking out his knowledge of his true form through disassociation. In my opinion, the reason Shadow Teddie looks like that is because it’s basically just if you combined the current Teddie with the default Shadow appearance (which is what he is), so Shadow Teddie is, in essence, just normal Teddie.
Teddie’s Shadow is based on his emptiness and lack of humanity. That’s why his boss fight has hollow eyes and holes. This finally leads to Teddie « growing a human body »… in a hilarious reveal 🤣
And that's not even mentioning the foreshadowing with the floating eye and voice. It's the first real peek behind the curtain that is the murder-mystery (which, while the initial tutorial dream-battle is also a peek, not much comes of it) to the true struggle against the supernatural being that wants to destroy humanity.
Almost thought he subtly mentioned that by saying "what is Teddie?" like a question of humanity being "who am I?"
@@remichroma1957 no I literally thought that's what he meant by that until I read this comment
Villains who in their minds are the hero are some of the best. They have a solid reason for their actions, and a good backstory to back it up.
I also love how Shadow of Mordor/War just creates the cast on the go, and pretty nicely as well.
Shadow has such a great system, it's tragic how more games can't utilize it because it's copyrighted
I still remember my run going through the first game, see an Orc with a bunch of patchwork medical treatment done, & then it shows the name I've seen like 10 times now causing the classic "holy fuck you just DON'T DIE do you?!" The rival system is so fun. Still need to play the 2nd game.
I'll always be a fan of villains who you only see sprinkled in here and there throughout the story, then they absolutely positively steal the entire show at the end. We need more showstoppers like that
Armstrong
You have a source on that type of villain?
@@123goofyking technically Dimentino from Super Paper Mario. Sure he's one of the main baddies, the last of the big bars top men you fight. After having beaten all them you proceed to the big bad, only for Dimentino to reveal he's been scheming the whole time to take the power of the plot macguffins for himself and backstab the big bad right as the big bad has his sentimental backstory revealed
@@123goofyking He made it the fuck up.
Would Vergil count for this?
@@Cornin33 Maybe in DMC5, since his role in 3 is pretty much all over the story
Good dialog, good motives, and a kick ass character design. One of my fave villains is from ace attorney
who?
@@floppyearfriend don't wanna spoil it but it's from the first game, the last case for the DS version
Which one? Dahlia? Gant? Someone from Great Ace Attorney?
Yeah, who is it? I can’t really think of any cast of villains that truly work together in ace attorney. It’s usually more so on a narrative level. Where all the villains challenge different parts of the games’ theme.
It's Gant. I loved his design, dialog...and his motives were twisted...truly calculating. His dialogue always stuck out to me in the series. My favorite is "didn't you know? We aren't defenders of justice, we're merely keepers of the law"
My favorite kinds of villains are the ones working together, but secretly. Like with little hints that there’s something bigger in their operations and bigger goals
Simple, the more Xehanorts you can fit in your game the better. If you want a curveball, introduce other villains, then get them possessed by Xehanort.
I like how Chrono trigger makes you get focused on lavos but it does introduce you many villains that are related to him in some way, being on the past, present or future you are always reminded to be prepared to beat him
If you do a sequel to this, please please PLEASE talk about Xenoblade Chronicles 2's Torna. They're a group of 5 villians that all work together and wield the "power of friendship" just as much as the good guys. From the sibling bond of Ahkos and Patroka, to Mikhail and Patroka's relationship, Jin and Malos' bond despite their past in the dlc prequel. Even Nia turning coat to join Rex and Pyra. They are all fantastic.
And of course the brotherly relationship between Malos and Jin, and the way both of them, or really all of Torna, have been forced into their way of life because of one regressive blue jerk
My favourite set of villains are the terrorist group known as Torna, in Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
Taking their name from a nation that was destroyed centuries ago in the Aegis War (due to three of the six members having ties to it), this group consists of Malos, Jin, Mikhail, Patroka, Akhos, and Nia. Each of the six has their own unique personality, and their inter-organisational relationships are great - Mikhail hits on Patroka, Patroka and Akhos have a rather special bond, Akhos is the strategist, Jin is tormented by his past, Nia quickly defects from the group and joins the player (and was previously rescued from trouble by Jin in the past, which is why she joined up), and Malos...Malos is malevolent.
However, while Malos is the designated leader of Torna, and seeks out Pyra (the Aegis) for...spoiler reasons...he's actually shown to have a rather cool 'buddy' relationship with Jin, the otherwise cold and stoic swordmaster, to the point where Malos even states he "exists for Jin's benefit", and the two actually wish each other well when they're about to do terrorist things. Rather nice to see, that.
Akhos and Mikhail also receive some nice character depth; while the former might be a bit bloodthirsty (perfectly willing to kill if necessary), he really does care for Patroka, who he views as his sister, and helps Jin escape when he experiences a moment of weakness at one point. Mikhail, on the other hand, has a childhood tie to Jin (which is only shown in a flashback, and is expanded upon in the prequel side-game, Torna: The Golden Country), and can be serious if needed, willing to die if it means stopping another villain that the group is fundamentally against.
Nia, meanwhile, is grateful for Jin's previous rescue, which is why she became a member, only to be disillusioned when Jin does a murder in cold blood for (seemingly, to her) no reason, and Malos soon afterwards orders her (...the healer, great job there) to murder a bunch of witnesses; she doesn't have any real ties to the other three, but later on, after some major character growth, she's able to completely counter Malos' inherent destructive nature, and deliver an amazing (though sadly temporary) beatdown on the guy.
I just can't do Torna justice in mere words. While Malos and Jin are the standouts (especially Jin's end; he is indeed a splendid soul), the rest of the team are still great, aside from maybe the rather one-note violent tomboy Patroka.
Octopath Traveler is such a great game with so many villains, but the great flaw is that they are not connected to each other
I heard the sequel is gonna try and fix that. And I Think they’ll do great at the very least.
@@cosmicspacething3474 Yes! I saw that and I'm really hyped for it! Kinda dissapointed about the classes tho
@@cosmicspacething3474 Cool. The unconnectedness of everything was kind of the main gripe I had with the game. With the attention spread across eight different storylines without them building on each other it meant the depth of each of them were fairly shallow and simplistic. Didn't actually finish the game either, much because of that.
I personally love villain teams in games, since it often gives you such unique characters to go up against in boss fights; growing up with the Crash series especially, each game usually had such a varied rogues gallery of bosses, and that was something I really enjoyed.
It's definitely easy to miss the mark with this concept (I'm still upset with how Sonic Forces dropped the ball in that regard), but when nailed right, it can make for a fun time for the writers, developers, and players.
So yeah, this was a great watch!
I think part of the reason I love RPGs is that they’re large enough to have a huge cast of villains. Some that work within an evil organization and some that are one offs with their own motivations that still just get in the way of your progress. Some you have to fight and some you have to insinuate yourself into the situation by following a side quest storyline to get to the boss. I love it all.
For me, its definitely the motivation of the "villian" that drives them. A good and well-written villian either believes that what he is doing is the right thing or doesn't take their goal so seriously to the point where its like "yeah, he is OBVIOUSLY the bad guy". Its in human nature to at times justify what we are doing, even when we are wrong, which makes those villians relatable.
Yeah the more grey area there is around "who's the real jerk, here?" The more intriguing i find the stories they're in
Damn, I really want to play Metal Gear and Yakuza now
Start with yakuza 0 its usually like 5 bucks and a great entry point into the series. All of the games are on gamepass aswell
@@Panda0730_ Hard second to that. 0 is written as a prequel that doesn't assume you played the first game & the remake of 1, Kiwami, even drops in nods to events from 0.
Doit, incredible series that deserve your time and effort
Two of my favorite series of all time. When I finally decided to pick up Yakuza, I went through the first 5 games plus Judgment in a matter of months. Couldn’t get enough.
Metal Gear might take a bit more time and patience to get into. The controls of MGS1 have not aged well, but just take your time with it, and don’t be afraid to read some guides or something.
I'm a big fan of how Final Fantasy Tactics handles villains. The first few bad guys you meet are actually good guys, and the people you worked with turn out to be the bad guys. You eventually get branded as the villain in your own story working to uncover a vast conspiracy. It's marvelous storytelling, if a little complicated.
I know there are good translations of it out there, but I've still only played through the original US PSX version. And thanks to the infamous translation... well... 'marvelous storytelling' would not be an accurate description.
@@boobah5643 I know that's the internets general take on the PSX version but it's such gatekeepy BS. The original translation isn't perfect but it's more than capable of telling a coherent story and saying otherwise is just untrue. If you'd rather other people think for you just play the WOTV version, but they're both amazing games with incredible stories regardless of which version you play.
and don't forget about ffxiv shadowbringers/endwalker :D
@@boobah5643 The PSX translation was a mess, but acting like it was totally incoherent is a huge exaggeration. That only applies if you ragequit the first time you saw a typo.
Tales of the abyss, the six god generals are always gonna be my favorites, each is really well done and have some sort of connection to the main party along with reasons why theyre helping the big bad
I was thinking the same thing
*Bravely Default* 's villain cast was one of the most charming; they all felt like individuals who could have their own adventures, while having in-universe opinions and feelings about other villain characters. The optional alternate timeline quests feature delightful what-if's that let villains interact with each other outside their usual squads, which only emphasises their great chemistry.
Plus I love how they come back in Bravely Second, having turned over new leaves and start picking up some very interesting real jobs in the world!
While not from a game, my favorite band of villains will always be La Squadra from Jojo's Bizzare Adventure Part 5. They compliment each other really well and works well as a team while also having a real relation with each other. And the best part about La Squadra to me is how they and the protagonist team are similar in a lot of ways; both have the same goal, both have the same powers, both are morally ambigious, and both team have their characters progression. This villain group can actually be the main characters if you twist the story around them instead of the actual protagonists.
La Squadra are some of the best “minor” villains that jojo has had. They led to at least 2 of the best fights in the series with Grateful Dead/Beach Boy and White Album. Metallica vs King Crimson was pretty great too.
Seriously, the villains of FFXIV are so diverse, and some are absolutely amazing. Elidibus make me cry every time I must fight him in a trial roulette.
As many times as I've done that trial it still somewhat amazes me that his dialogue after the cut-scene is still pretty impactful.
My favorite villain group is undoubtetly Organization XIII they have amazing designs, amazing boss fights and tragic backstories. Other villain groups i love are
-The Decepticons from Transformers WFC/FOC.
-The Mavericks and The four Guardians of Copy X from MegamanX/Zero.
-Desperado from Metal Gear Rising Revengence.
-The various assassins from the No More Heroes series.
My only problem with the organization is that the uniform has been a cop out create artificial mystery. Uniformity in your opposition is cool but I wish that they all had various spins on the uniform to better match their personalities but it's all variations of black robe, weapon, style of spiky hair.
You forgot the amazing personalities and a pretty fleshed out interpersonal dynamic. It's not perfect, but it feels way closer to a shounen anime than a licensed Disney game, in a good way.
@@OhKayEl I know they all got their personalities I'm just talking visually
Off rip if I saw the line up no context it's hard for me to see they're different people because they all look like headswaps
@@itsmechriswong I was replying to the original poster.
Imo one of the best Villian casts is Ouroboros from The Legend of Heroes Series. It’s a fairly large organization full of villains and “villains” each of which is related to one of the main parties from one of the multiple arcs in the series. It makes repeat playthroughs even better because fighting the villains that relate to other parties can give even more story context that won’t make sense until you play the games again.
I believed that, this channel owner not playing Trails series yet as when speaking of Villain "Organization" The Ouroboros from Trails Series will pop up first in my head, the yesn't Villainess vibe of this group is very charming.
Torna from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is probably one of fave villain groups as they basically feel like a found family. Despite Jin and Malos getting all the attention, you do feel they all care for each other as the story progresses, Mikhael and Akhos showing more depth than their constructed persona's would have you believe are some of my favourite moments in the game, Patroka gets side-lined tho unfortunately. I also love the way their introduced. Jin and Malos in the very first chapter, immediatly setting Malos up as the impulsive, hot headed one, while Jin is the more quiet and controlled. Then in chapter 3, Akhos gets introduced with references to Mikael and Patroka, then they're introduced at the end of chapter 4. This gradual reveal lets you grow more familiar with each member. I also like how each fight is different, either a new gameplay element is introduced, or new narrative weight is put behind the fights, making it feel like a tragedy as you get to know them.
Late in the game I was just feeling like "man do I really have to fight these guys I feel like this could all be solved by talking it out and some therapy"
Torna is essentially their own JRPG party that had already formed off screen before the game started and are the protagonist of their own story, developing and growing over the course much like your own cast. Even their role in the story as a group of terrorists is something of a dark parallel with the sort of rebel groups you'd see in stuff like Final Fantasy VI or VII, a comparison that feels almost intentional considering they're designed by Tetsuya Nomura and has Jin share the same Japanese VA as Cloud. It makes for a really fun dichotomy with your own cast that I really enjoy, especially with Nia being a former member of the group herself.
I didn't think about this way as gameplay wise. Story wise of course I love them but never thought about the game play.
Love the dynamic between our party, Torna, and Amalthus. One is the more active threat while the other was the one that led to the whole mess in the first place. Both have their impact on the world and plot.
Shoutout to Malos for being there from the literal beginning to the end. How many JRPG villains actually go that distance? Really made things feel personal
You will see me drop dead on the ground before i say that goro majima is a villan. The dude is the best anti-hero ever made.
My favourite villains are those that exist for the purpose of teaching lessons to the players. Like the ones in Persona 5.
Even looking back at Megamn Zero 1-3, Harpuia is an antagonist that garners respect for Zero over the course of three games, Elpizo downfall is a major turning point, and Weil taking advantage of the guardians is great.
Megaman Zero 2-3 displays a power struggle between the major antagonist with Harpuia having plans on rebeling against Weil.
Megaman Zero 4 has one of the best cast of bosses. We're introduced to them all at once before the game finally opens up. Their intros and dialogue helps characterize them in their brief appearance. Their called Mutos reploids, and like robot masters/ mavericks they come in 8.
- Mino Magnus, was a reploid with low energy and on the verge of shutting down before Weil gave him an unlimited supply of energy. He constantly talks with a speech impediment or talks slowly and is interrupted by Tech Kraken. He just reminds me of Bane from Harley Quinn since every appearance has him be a complete joke.
- Tech Kraken, an apprentice of Phantom. a boss from one of the previous games that Zero killed. He joins Weil for his own purpose in hopes of reviving his master. In his third and final appearance in the boss rush, he sees Zero as an honorable warrior and wishes him good luck in stopping Weil.
- Heat Genblem is a martial arts gamera who shows deep respect to Craft, and is angered by the fact he entrusted Zero to protect the humans.
Alot of these bosses have interesting and brief stories in a GBA game.
A great villain cast is also present on the Touhou Saga, they ussually have great motivations, even on its simplistic gameplay every vilain has its own quirks, and at the end they all come as reasonable people or crazy ones
and at the end Reimu just beats the shit out of them and they become friends and annoy her at Hakurei Shrine idk never played Touhou
FURI also has an amazing cast of opponents.
FURI is the exact game that came to mind with this video.
One of my favorite cast of villains has to be the Society of Ouroboros from the Trails series. I love how different their personalities are as well as how it is an organization, but the members are allowed a lot of freedom. This allows for some of them to help out the party at certain points as well as setting the stage for internal conflict in their ranks
Spoilers for Cold Steel III,
When Zephyr, Red Constellation, the Ironbloods, and Ouroboros teamed to open the path to the Gral, I knew it wasn't going to go well for Class VII. With that said, we need some closure on this story at some point. Info about the Beyond, the Grandmaster, what really happened to Epstein (and how that ties to McBurn's arrival at roughly the same time) would be nice.
Honestly the best example imho is Ouroboros from the trails games. You slowly but surely learn more about the organization and its members. And they're a very varied bunch who are all in their for their own reasons. Some are a lot more memorable than others but as a whole it's a great cast.
Ah, yes. Who could forget Xehanort. Oh, and Xehanort! Oh yeah, and that one time Xehanort showed up? Oh, and this one's Sora, but EVIL! Also, this one's Xehanort.
Oops! All Xehanort!
Ah yes an Organization that consists of multiple people that bears the same heart from one dude that gives them yellow eyes
i really like the claw gang from sly 2. they have a large scale spice trafficing/mind control plan that they're using the clockwerk parts for, and as you progress through the game, the plan slowly reveals itself as you learn what each member's role is. it adds to the stakes as the story goes on and i think its really cool
The Moebius from XC3 are a good way to write villains that are loosely connected to one another in my opinion. They may not have any grand ambitions outside of "be evil", but it's how their interactions are woven into the plot that makes them stand out and that helps tie together the themes of life, death, and legacy.
Bethel from SMT V, on the other hand, could stand to take some notes. Once they heard that the God of Law is dead and that His throne is up for grabs, they could have taken a more active role in the story. Instead, they show up in a single cutscene and are mowed down one by one with little fanfare. The only exceptions are Shiva and Khonsu, the former because he's the superboss and the latter because he has a whole quest line built around him that could have had some more build-up in the early game. Zeus doesn't count in my opinion, since you fight him twice if you did Demeter's quest line, and even then it's a rehash of his story fight.
It’s really amazing to me just how many Moebius they put into the game. I really didn’t think they’d have one for every letter but, well, sure seems like they did. And while a number of them early on were very one note, like K, Q, G, and R, I was surprised by how many had meaningful interactions and roles to play, even if they don’t stick around very long. Plus there were some really interesting subversions like with T and C.
I was actually going to write that the consuls in X3 feel so....one-note. They are imo the weakest part of the game. They have no depth, no character apart from being "bad". I find that Malos and Jin from X2 are much, much better villains.
Thank You for giving Freedom Planet 2 some attention in your video (which was great and informative by the way). It's a really great game that deserves more love.
It's probably my 2nd favorite game of the year, right under Elden Ring. I wanted to give it a proper spotlight while we were writing this episode but I had trouble sorting out my thoughts and finding a place to slot it in smoothly. I'll try to do something with it someday. Maybe in a follow up to this episode or when we talk about final bosses. Merga and even Brevon from the first game are no joke.
@@DesignDoc Great! And thanks for the update! 👍
@@DesignDoc Please do.
All of the Xenoblade villainous organizations are fascinating, and all for different ways.
In 1 you have this man at the top with legitimate grievances, and a penchant for kidnapping and brainwashing people from the other side to work for him (one who is a complete psycho and much worse than the big boss). He managed to drive away almost everyone he was once friends with and most of his army consists of thoughtless robots.
In 2 you have this much less hieranchical group all working together for the same goal. And they really do seem to see each other as a family and end up being a sort of dark counterpart to the hero's party, both racing to try and reach the finish line first and make their goal of destroying/saving the world a reality. Each is also pretty deep and they all have a story behind them that drove them to seek ruin.
In 3 you have a big boss, an admin which is the second strongest of the group and a bunch of generals. And while they do technically work towards the same goal, they all couldn't care less about each other. Sure, they will opose the heroes, but they rarely team up, or last till the end of thier introduction chapter/sidequest. They have absolutely no bonds with one another other thn being recruited by the same guy.
Glad you put Super Paper Mario in the video, because in terms of good villains, this game is just INCREDIBLE
I might be cheating a bit by referencing anime but I did enjoy the Frieza Force's appearance in DBZ.
From the bat you know who the big threat is and his closest in command are but when most of the henchman and advisors are taken out and you think that the big guy is just around the corner, now you get his elite forces to push the end even further from reach and to give you a better sense of just how strong he is.
It does a good job of creating an organization of unique beings all under an observable and clear goal and elaborating further on just how large and powerful Frieza's empire actually is.
What probably helps that as well is the 1 v 1 nature of Dragon Ball as a whole. Your protags are now woefully under-powered in a game of planetary capture the flag/hide-and-seek against an evil space empire. No more epic kung fu battles. You have to be smart in how you engage them.
Nah I can’t Stand them they annoying as ell
I think Xenoblade 3 approaches villains an interesting way. While most individual Moebius are not explored in particular detail, the story progressively reveals more about the organisation that changes your perception.
At the beginning you just think they're all evil caricatures, like D and K. This assumption is kept until you get to chapter 5 when you encounter two hero quests that challenge your assumption that all Moebius are just evil caricatures. Then comes the end of chapter 5 and start of chapter 6 which reveals the tragedy of two of the Moebius and it completely changes the way you view the organisation. While many Moebius still are twisted evil soulless people, many of them are not and are complex conflicted people under a big bad.
I haven't got further than the start of chapter 6, so I'll have to see what else they do!
(Also, as many have pointed out, Xenoblade 2's villains are excellent)
I’m partway through chapter 7 and I’ll just say the Moebius get even better.
(Also T is a homie)
Xenogears and Kingdom Hearts has some fun villain variety. In these games all the villains are formidable but they are all trying to undermine eachother in some way. It's always a fun guessing game who will end up as the true big bad by the end.
One of my favorite villain tropes is a bunch of unrelated villains eventually teaming up to get rid of the hero(es). The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Especially if they end up taking ideas from each other.
I think my favorite villan group is van and the six god generals from tales of the abyss. You can tell that they've a known each other for a long time and each one has a different reason for following Van. They are frequently seen together and you fight each of them 3 times and few of them team up when during fights. Also each of them has a personal connection to a party member from being childhood friends to former teachers to bloodline connections it just makes them all stand out to the point you feel each of their loss upon killing them
I like the Sith Triumverate (I think that's the right terminology) from Knight of the Old Republic 2. They aren't even working together. They're competing against one another. Yet the dynamics between them and the rest of the cast color much of the narrative. Plus, each of them reflect one of the three paths available to the player. Jedi Weapon Master, Watchmen, or Master (or Marauder, Assassin, Lord if you play the dark side route). The fact that your mentor figure turns out to be the Sith Lady in charge and the final boss? Priceless.
I'm definitely looking forward to the next villain design doc episode. There are just so many things that are interesting to explore in terms of teams and casts of villains, or even just standalone ones.
A lot of my favourite casts of villains were covered or shown in this video, such as the ones from Super Paper Mario. Other antagonists I really enjoy that fit under the "hierarchy model" would be the members of the titular No Straight Roads. I think it'd be cool if this video had a part two, I'd be interested in hearing about the other villain group dynamics you didn't cover! Such as, maybe, when antagonists aren't very fleshed out or have any overt personality or motivation, but the game's structure and open interpretation lets them get away with that, like in Sayonara Wild Hearts
Love both games
For me Furi is an example of a suppurb cast of "villains". The entire game is a one large boss rush mode, and it is the relationship between the villains, their motivations and the protagonist that makes the entire game so memorable. Each one tests another aspect of the player's skill, while the sections in between battles serve as a great build up for the upcoming battle.
Loved you sneaking in a theme tied to the FFXIV villains’ arc in the end there!
Great analysis, as always! Each choice does come with its own pros and cons, and we often learn by making poor choices in areas such as this, but the good thing is that we have videos like this to help us develop the stories we want to tell.
A good villain group helps build the narrative, provide variety to the gameplay, and may even feature members that truly stand out...
And then, on the complete opposite end, there's the Deadly 6 from "Sonic Lost World".
The cast of villains in Xenoblade 2 makes the game IMO. They have a super tragic story that you learn to empathize with. They all fit together great and add something. And they give the end of a game a much stronger emotional impact than it would have had without them.
Always happy to see new videos
I literally found your channel yesterday, and this upload was an amazing surprise added to my binging of your videos
*Looks at thumbnail*
Oh, no! They are all already half Xeonort!
Tales of the Abyss nailed the villainous group. The Six God Generals were awesome! Their motivations, their ties with the main cast, their contribution to the narrative. They're one of the best examples
Mir from Ar Tonelico is probably one of my all time favorites. You go through a few different outlooks of who she is in the first game, from her being the big evil virus to being a tortured girl finally breaking free and getting revenge on mankind and eventually after the last battle, if you get the best ending, she sort of gives in and restores everything because you finally get through to her.
It's the 2nd game though that really made her shine, because she comes back with somewhat of a makeover and a different name that makes returning players wonder why she seems familiar before hints finally give it away. Added with her now being a party member and a romance option to boot, and the ability to learn a lot more about her as a result, really made her stand out to me.
The moebius from xenoblade 3 are my favorite group of villains
I love the challenge I'm posing on myself - chapter villains, an overarching villain, a secret puppeteer villain, and a surprise heel-turn broken hero into a villain.
I really wish this wasn't for a fangame sometimes, and I could actually focus on game creation...
One of my favorite dynamics for villains, and not just for video games, is when one of them betrays the other, or even straight up kills them despite being under the same organization. Seeing this dynamic of evil people who don't even care about their own ally gives me whiplash sometimes and I love it. The villains who also band together like a family is also a nice dynamic, where you hurt one and the other, stronger one comes stomping in completely in rage that you would dare hurt their friend.
I love villain casts that reflect the heroes- my favorite example is Tales of the Abyss
I also love how the trails in the sky SC villains, Ouroboros, despite appearing in every game is especially reflective of the protagonists.
Would love to have a part 2 of this video.
Huge fan of the climax of the original 2009 MW2. Makarov selling out Shepard in an “enemy of my enemy”-esque move was brilliant. Not quite as many enemies in this cast, but all memorable and formidable.
I see a lot of people dunking on Moebius from Xenoblade 3 a lot. And while I agree that most of them are flat, I think I'm not as affected by it due to most of those flat villains being sidequest villains. Their thematic purpose keeps me interested. That said, being the villains of sidequests actually helps with world building in my opinion and demonstrating just how much control Moebius has over Aionios. Comparing with other games in the series (or other RPGs in general), the main antagonistic faction usually isn't involved in sidequests.
On the topic though, Xenoblade 2's Torna is a fantastic group of villains for a different reason. Compared to Moebius, they are a very small group, consisting of only 6 members (5 after the first chapter), all of whom are Blades (minus Mikhail) who have been wronged by the world. They are practically a family, meaning they can use the "power of friendship" (if you want to call it that) just like the heroes. Adding to their quality is their constant presence, even if they aren't actively ruling the world like Moebius. With the exception of chapters 2 and 8, you fight Torna in some capacity in every chapter, so they're never out of mind.
I totally love Moebius. Sure some are flat, but we get great moments from the party against those ones anyway, so it’s not like they’re wasted. And it makes sense that some of them would just be completely apathetic or cruel bastards given what they represent and what their place in the world is. Makes the more sympathetic ones all the more refreshing to see, but you can’t have that kind of impression if you don’t have some 2-dimensional pricks to balance it out imo. At least, not with a group that big. Putting them in sidequests definitely helped of course. Regardless, it’s the collective of all their different personalities and ways of living that makes them feel memorable and threatening.
Though it’s hard to top Malos for me
I LOVE your videos! Keep up the good work , im so grateful for your content!
Thank you! :)
I really wish the Koopalings played bigger story roles in Mario
Great choice of villains and examples !
This video unlocked some nodes in my brain for what I should do with my villains in my projects
One of my favourite villain casts is Shining Resonance Refrain. I haven't finished the game yet but watching them interact with each other when the heroes aren't around feels like watching a B Movie family comedy half the time and it's dumb in the best way.
You have the princess trying to hold everything together, the big guy who acts like a stern uncle but is probably working on his own agenda, the angsty teenager (who shares his VA with Akechi) who just wants action, the mysterious girl who's motives are hard to read, and the psychotic mad scientist who doesn't give a fuck what happens and just wants to commit science.
Im going to start calling the big boss in my RPG opus Johnny Singlebad!
Hell yes
The Villain should definitely menacing!
And not to mention threatening!
I find sociopathic villains to be more believable tbh. They would almost certainly acquire a following and work with others despite all of them being manipulated towards the villain's destructive or selfish goals. Ghetsis in Pokemon Black and White is the most believable villain in Pokemon in that sense.
The best Thing about multiple villains is u can get Boss weapons or skills from them, also its always fun comparing good villains against each other
The best cast of villains in recent games was elden rings demigods
"Use your villains"
So true. I know this video is about games but it kinda urks me when movies and tv hype you up for an antagonist or a string of antagonists, and totally chicken out before they can come to blows with a main character.
Back to games, I'd say another one of my favorite "villain dynamics" is the "usurper". I like it when there's a villain, especially if they're someone mirrors the protagonist (or if they're just hilariously pitiful), is put through the ringer throughout the whole story. But comes out ontop of all the other villains. Like you, you've basically watched this character's come up. So it's satisdying seeing them as your final challenge. Someone truly worthy of you giving it your all.
once again a great video doc. and wow you really are good at your field of expertise to the point you would make a great real doctor. keep up the good work. 👍👍👍👍👍
My favorite group of Video Game Villains (so far, I've only finished the Sky arc at this point) is the Ouroboros Enforcers from the Legend of Heroes: Trails.
Off the top of my head my favorite villain casts are the Order of No Quarter from Shovel Knight Treasure Trove, Sumeragi from Gunvolt, and Eden from Gunvolt 2. They're like the Mega Man bosses, but with more personality due to dialogue with the hero(es) and extra scenarios outside the main game. The different Shovel Knight campaigns let 3 members shine (one of whom is among my favorite videogame characters of all time) while the others get some more context with some limelight in the Showdown fighting game. Both Sumeragi and Eden members have personalities and hobbies outside being bosses of their stages, along with their armors, powers, backstories, and dialogue during the stages.
Your videos are very good for designing my DnD campaigns
Woah. Those were some of the coolest described battles I've ever heard of in metal gear.
Thanks to you I've been trying my hand to make my own game (this is gonna be awesomes when it comes to my final boss and the cult with it)
oh yes chill man talk about game, very good video
this guy makes helpful and addicting videos 5 stars
Exactly
Cool to see the Freedom Planet 2 footage
Please, make a second part, this was really fun and interesting to watch.
My favorite games with great villains are:
Tales of Berseria. The villains are the demons but also the church, and you and your team can also be seen as the bad guys. I love that all three factions are not evil or good, but realistically nuances, in a so called greyscale.
Silent Hill 2. It's a weird one. There are monsters but not villains, exactly. You are not fighting organizations of third parties, except when you must fight Eddie, a guy you met a few hours before and who has gone completely mad and thinks you mock him, so he wants to kill you. You must kill him, you don't want to but you must.
Dark Souls. The villains are the rich and noble, the bourgeoisie. They manipulate you so you work for them and help them extend their life style. They try to convince you your sacrifice is honorable and heroic, you even accept to kill yourself so they can keep living and ruling the land. Or you can give them the finger and become the new ruler, putting an end to their dominion.
I love the Liquid Ocelot fight at the end of MGS4.
Mechanically it's a callback to MGS1's fight with Liquid Snake and is a condensed expression of the series' history, music and fighting styles of Liquid and Snake.
Narratively it is on first playthrough the culmination of Liquid and Snake's rivalry to decide who the superior clone is. On repeat playthroughs you realise the fight isn't about that rivalry, it's just a cover. The fight is actually about Ocelot getting one last fight against the closest thing to Big Boss before Foxdie kills him now that Ocelot's mission is complete. The historical progression of the fight even shows Ocelot's psychotherapy wearing off. It's from fully Liquid's personality, to Liquid Ocelot, to Ocelot.
Majima is truly everywhere
I love it when you fight the bad guy more than once in the game. it solidifies it as a threat imo.
Hey man, great stuff as usual! I‘ve been watching all your videos since over a year now! You really manage to capture the main aspects of each topic in a detailed but not stretched out way! Could you make a video about designing „Character Skills/Abilities“. It would be interesting to hear about fun and innovative skills, but also about the classics and what made them stick through the course of time. Why they work or why they didn’t. What made them fun and stick out or what may started as a good concept, but turned out to not work at all.
I‘d love to see a video about that. If you read this; thank you for your time and I hope you have the capacities for a video like that! Best regards and thanks for the great content anyways :)
Sydney Losstarot from Vagrant Story.
Late game Acsians- first it was “we are a organisation 13 knock off” then they got put on a shelf for stormblood as the team didn’t know what to do with them- then Shadowbringers came and shook up their formula from faceless organisation
Pokemon is a good example, especially in Generation 3, and I do think that you should talk more about Deep Cut from Splatoon 3. Skylanders Superchargers has an entire cast of characters who are villains, with a few main ones.
I love it in games where you actually get to play as the villains, albeit briefly. Even if its just DLC like in Metal Gear Rising or DMC3/4/5.
But when its part of the main campaign and a part of the main story, it just makes me feel more attached to them. Its a good way to get us to see the perspectives of multiple parties without having to rely on exposition or overly long cutscenes.
*glares at Organisation 13*
It can also be used for some pretty emotional bangers or twists, suppoing you dont really 'know' youre playing as a villain at the time. Spoilers for Nier Replicant/Gestalt...
Upon replaying the game, realising that youre actually playing as the Shadowlord in the tutorial blew my mind as a kid.
Handsome Jack💦💦💦 His humour, origin story, the ending of bl2, he spoke to us all throughout our journey so we got a great sense of his personality and character. 10/10 no flaws idgaf if you think otherwise