Man 98 percent of people watching this think if you’re not racing on UA-cam then it doesn’t happen . People have been doing this for a while . It works really well . Big Centrifugal superchargers this is only way to control boost pressure . I would love to see these people argue with you in person .
Im still learning about this setup and its advantages. I do know Mark Micke uses a similar setup without wastegates and is running really well. Thanks for sharing your stuff is always slick.
Devin, let me start off by saying Im not a nut rider. Your concept for boost control is brilliant in my opinion. The delay from drive pressure to cold side charge air is a prime example of why this theory will be effective. Electronically controlled flow valves operate at a slower response rate than pneumatic in my experience. Furthermore, the switch over aspect of the 2 boost control systems by keeping them both CO2 is smart. I think Space X has put rockets in space with less tech than your drop top fox has. Keep up the good work my man. I always learn from your videos.
A few years ago Haltech Heroes showed a boost control like this on a 3000hp 2JZ Pro Mod car. The car had a BMW Electric Throttle Body that costsd like 200 bucks. Same exact configuration. There was no wastegate, the turbo was a gigantic Pro Mod 88 I think, so back pressure was not really an issue. They were having boost consistency issues on the launch with a conventional setup, so they jusy thought "well just have the turbo at 100% boost and bleed off what we don't use". Worked perfectly, and they close the controlled boost leak gradually by a distance input. Very successful system
I’m excited to see this in action. I feel too you’ll see a lot of turbo speed. On the large bore stuff in my world, there’s a few ways to over speed the turbos. Boost leaks, and inlet restriction. The engine is driving the turbo based on target manifold pressure as well as target air fuel ratio. So big boost leak = more turbo speed to achieve target manifold pressure, while it’s also targeting an AFR, an amount of air goes away it will try to make more air by driving the turbo harder. But! We are using a wastegate to drive the turbo and just command it to shut more, where as you will basically have them pinned shut. But, theory’s are great until they are proven wrong haha. Can’t wait to see it come together! Love the channel, love the content!
Thanks for sharing your own view on this tech and your ideas, look forward to seeing the testing results. Also sorry to hear that there are so many haters around this.
Devon this works great you will not need to waste gates. The interesting part is comparing turbo speed with exhaust waste skates at Lasee 40 pounds compared to the turbo speed with the intake gate controlling it at 40 pounds. I am already doing this on my boat motor I have Twin 80s on a 547 inch Ford, we have not got to test a whole lot. I’ve only been at 10 pounds and I’m seeing about 62,000 RPMs of turbo speed at 10 pound of boost with the throttle wide open underload. I am very interesting to see your results. Keep up the good work. I am just using a 66 mm wastegate on my intake lid.
Listening to Jeff Evan’s on Sloppy podcast sounding like he has been using a setup like this for race cars for a while and has been successful with it. Thanks for the video.
Wide-open gate there may be a spike in turbo rpm since there isn't resistance in the compressor blade then, I think the rpm would bleed off afterwards like you mentioned. Can't wait to see your progress next video. Keep at it, dude!
I like the idea of this.. cold air is easier to control than hot. But the exhaust wg's can increase exhaust gas flow at the top end like you mentioned. So maybe use both but keep the exhaust wgs and control them based on the exhaust backpressures
as always, Devins the man dropping truth bombs and knowledge on all us peasants. thanks for once again a honest and indepth break down. looking forward to the progress with this new revision of the car. keep pushing Sir your doing great!
I’ve seen people use drive-by wire to control boost going down the track. 4cyl drag cars need as much exhaust energy as possible to keep the turbo lit. In the lower gears they use a drive by wire and a timing offset to kill horsepower. The System you have in place using a diverter valve will work similar. I look forward to seeing the results.
I don’t have enough experience to formulate an opinion for a turbo car but I do like the fit and finish you did even though it’s a “test”. If you are going to do it, might as well do it right!
I would run both wastegates but up the spring for testing. You very well could be correct about over spinning the turbo but this way there is a backup. I'm sure this could easily be tested on a hub dyno.
Years ago there was a street racer that had a 55 Chevy with twin turbo sbc and he didn’t have any waste gates and only had 2 blow off valves and he machined an aluminum puck to go inside the blow off valve as a controlled boost leak. He had a few with different ones with different hole sizes and depending on what hole size the motor only made so much power. He had nitrous plumbed to the top on the blow off valve to act as a scramble button to close the hole for all the boost. It was a wild set up but that car would fly on the street. Same concept here it seems expect the straight gate gives you much more control.
Interested to see the turbo speed data when you start making passes with it, thanks for sharing this. I work with diesels that have vgt’s instead of wastegates, but with them if we add a post compressor leak it does end up increasing turbo speed, dropping efficiency and pushing it further to the left of the compressor map. That’s mostly attributed to the vgt clamping to maintain boost with a leak in the system though.
I wonder if this could work well with traction control strategies to cut boost quickly if pulling timing doesnt get wheel spin under control. Seems like a better option than dropping cylinders and pulling extreme amounts of timing. Boost should come back up pretty quick when it closes since the turbo shaft speed shouldnt drop as much compared to when wastegates open to lower boost.
Great info. Pushing the boundary is how you go faster than the next person, until they copy what you are doing to catch you in which case it becomes the norm.....
I too am old enough to recall the BFG days, but there is positive qualities in "gray haired experience". I know MM and his crew {gray hair experience at work} has been working on this concept for a while now, last weekend at the Snowbirds he was definitely the man to beat, too bad the rain came. In conclusion this concept seems to allow the turbo car to short time like a blower car yet back half like well prepped turbo car.
Hi Devin, I watched the video in full, yes I do agree that if you open the straight gate and reduce mass flow to the engine you will in turn have that on the outlet side of the engine, I did hear that Mark Micke did hurt a few turbos from trying this on his car before he got it worked out and as you know he doesnt have chinese turbos on his car, this may have been because he has no exhaust gates at all and hence nothing to fall back on, but if possible I would try and see what issues he had to avoid doing something similar. I know when ive had a bad boost leak my IMAP/EMAP ratio dramatically changed which would in still I was ramping up turbine speed for the same IMAP
This just makes more sense, in my opinion. Controlling the input side of the turbo (hot side), to regulate the output side of the turbo (cold side) always seemed like the cart leading the horse. It's functional obviously, but its a layer of latency and obfuscation between the command and the result. Controlling the cold side directly, the part that you actually want to regulate that goes into the engine, just seems sensible.
Last comment I swear. I wish you had a bearing load sensor to see how much axial funkiness happens when you open that gate because it’s definitely not free in terms of wear and tear in my opinion. I’ve had a buddy argue up one wall and down the other that it’s without consequence but I invite you to watch Steve Morris essentially lathe off the end of a crankshaft trying to figure out why a boost leak on a procharger and feeding an engine are not equivalent practices.
I too am old enough to recall the BFG days, but there is positive qualities in "gray haired experience". I know MM and his crew {gray hair experience at work} has been working on this concept for a while now, last weekend at the Snowbirds he was definitely the man to beat, too bad the rain came. In conclusion this concept seems to allow the turbo car to short time like a blower car yet back half like well prepped turbo car.
Good lone of thinking. Also drive pressure should be more on tap using the gate on the cold side. Great Job. Hopefully it works well when you test. Can't wait for results.
Not a lot different than when I ran a wastegate on the charge pipe of my F1A-94 procharger. I pulled it to near max blower speed so I could-- 1 bring the power in earlier and 2 control that power depending on track surface. I used a boost controller to control the gate as well. It was very effective in dumping power. You are doing the same thing. Letting the turbos sing and be up to speed and regulating boost on the charge pipe side. Less lag as well as quicker response on managing power.
I have kinda funny story about that sudden overpressure/boost. I have Audi urS4 2.2t with ~600hp. I had really weird bleedvalve and it was not met to car anyways. When i accelerated and it gained that ~1.65bar max and the "bleed valve" broke it did go about 2.3bar before intercooler right side clamp failed and boostpipe just did go thru the bumper like butter :D Saf that booost gain just because i was watching the gauge and maan it was quick, nice times... :D I have turbosmart 60mm powergate too, better than some weird copy i had before. + Nice car and video :)
I think it's brilliant specially for traction control my only concern is the moment that gate opens.... you run the risk of sending fins through the compressor housing until that exhaust energy goes down. Which I'm sure happens pretty quickly but it's still there. I would be surprised at 40 lb of boost if you don't see a doubling in shaft speed followed by immediate drop in shaft speed. And the reason why I say that is if it worked well they would have implemented something like this in the OEM.
makes sense as long as the charged air isnt metered before the gate. keep the turbos "spooled" and you just bleed off the charged air to control boost instead of bleeding exhaust air (and causing the turbo to slow down)
Given you can get 5x base pressure out of the straight gates, the CO2 setup on it might be unnececary. Would be interesting to test too, you might be able to get rid of the co2 setup if you change the other gates to straight gates.
Is there a better spool up benefit having it on the intake side? I thought there would be but then you talked about overall engine flow and it made me re-think that. Also I thought (only from other people’s information, not personal experience) that using CO2 boost control your asking the Holley to chase a target boost and so you’d be tuning to a desired window. So in theory would this be more precise and faster reacting?
Love that the straight gate is a newer version of the 25 year old ProCharger "ProFlow" valve,. Glad to see someone is finally controlling both sides of one! So rad!
I'll bet money the turbo shaft speed drops quickly, the instant that cold side gate is opened, NOT overspeeding of the turbo. Not only is the airflow into the engine reduced, but the load on the compressor goes UP when it suddenly has to move more air with the coldside gate open.
Boost pressure is a result of restriction going through the engine divided by the volume of air being pushed through. When the cold side gate opens, restriction decreases but flow volume will only increase if the turbine speed increases and it won't increase if the "load on the compressor wheel" increases. The thing you got wrong is the load of compressing the air goes down when the restriction goes down (cold side gate opening). It might seem like more flow but it's not more mass flow, it's more volume with much less density and that's easier for a compressor to push and that could mean more shaft speed until it finds a new equilibrium (if you consider the engine under steady state load). It seems to me if he omits the waste gates his turbine wheel size and A/R number are going to become much more critical balancing spool-up against getting choked up down track.
If the charge temps get to like 300 degrees you don’t think you would need to vent that somewhere other then under the hood ? Love the new setup can’t wait too see the data on it
#mustbenice Great content like always. I think it’s a smart move. Curious on how manageable it is. How close to target you’ll be and if there’s any troubles with response time. Good luck man.
Curious to see the data on this In Australia it was seen on a few nizpro vl turbos in the 2000's. Worked fine for them I wonder if shaft speed will just spike then settle straight away
Please dive deeper on the no wastegate I'm putting one out back on the fbody and using my big procharger blow off by the intercooler upfront to regulate pressure am I wrong I'm running the comp oiless turbo to make it even more simple basically only want to run what the spring holds the 434 will handle 2000hp and the spring and setup should be 1500hp ish and I can change the spring or add more springs to obtain more hp but its a very simple layout
I feel fucking dumb because I don't completely understand the benefits, seems better than E gate anything though. Hopefully I pick up how this thing impacts shaft speeds in future videos with data
I feel like the turbo smart straight is going to be beneficial. But the question is how much of a benefit will it be. I’m interested in seeing the data once the car is ready.
My question is what made you go from the Holly high speed valves, back to regular Mac valves for boost control?…. Sidebar I’m very interested to see how this new set up works. Can’t wait for an update.
As a supplement it’s fine. As a replacement for regular gates it’s gay and traditional gates will make the turbo go further anyway in my opinion. Opening your wastegate on your cold side slows the turbo down even if you could keep exhaust energy up and would make back pressure higher at the same time. people need to pick up a vacuum cleaner and test this shit before they talk about it 😂 Which turbo is under more load 1.turbo connected to 427” SBF 2.turbo connected to 427” SBF and trying to exhale into all of Mother Earth at the same time Out of ALL of the crap we hear the whole boost leak over spinning the turbo is my favorite one and everybody parrots that same bs without applying a single intelligent thought to it. Sorry for the rant.
I remember someone who I trusted (I think Steve Morris but I could be remembering wrong) said that on a centrifugal blower it ends up dramatically increasing power used to drive the blower.
Mercury marine uses an ETB to regulate boost on their supercharged Verado outboards. Obviously not the same as turbos but such a design would make for a much simpler and less costly system design and perhaps better boost accuracy
@@theholleyefiguy That would be great. I did see you have a "can" inline with your dome pressure sensor. I'm guessing to dampen the pulses from the exhaust gate.
I’m assuming that controlling boost on the charge side will keep the turbos spooled if you are using the blow off valve for traction control as opposed to using the waste gates. You did explain it in the end of the video I was just wondering what the turbo shaft speed is waste gate VS blow off valve using traction control, or are you just using timing for traction control?
Hey Devin, do you have shaft speed sensors on your turbos? If so, you can monitor the shaft speed both ways. Opening the intake side would unload the compressor wheel, and you may overspeed the turbos. It'd be easy to see what happens.
Man 98 percent of people watching this think if you’re not racing on UA-cam then it doesn’t happen . People have been doing this for a while . It works really well . Big Centrifugal superchargers this is only way to control boost pressure . I would love to see these people argue with you in person .
Im still learning about this setup and its advantages. I do know Mark Micke uses a similar setup without wastegates and is running really well. Thanks for sharing your stuff is always slick.
Devin, let me start off by saying Im not a nut rider. Your concept for boost control is brilliant in my opinion. The delay from drive pressure to cold side charge air is a prime example of why this theory will be effective. Electronically controlled flow valves operate at a slower response rate than pneumatic in my experience. Furthermore, the switch over aspect of the 2 boost control systems by keeping them both CO2 is smart. I think Space X has put rockets in space with less tech than your drop top fox has. Keep up the good work my man. I always learn from your videos.
thank you man, i appreciate it. were always trying something with this old raggedy car trying to learn
It's going to be interesting to see how controllable the boost is going this route.
Fastest pro boost car is running with no hot side control.
This thing will come up so damn fast on the brake
A few years ago Haltech Heroes showed a boost control like this on a 3000hp 2JZ Pro Mod car. The car had a BMW Electric Throttle Body that costsd like 200 bucks. Same exact configuration. There was no wastegate, the turbo was a gigantic Pro Mod 88 I think, so back pressure was not really an issue. They were having boost consistency issues on the launch with a conventional setup, so they jusy thought "well just have the turbo at 100% boost and bleed off what we don't use". Worked perfectly, and they close the controlled boost leak gradually by a distance input. Very successful system
I’m excited to see this in action. I feel too you’ll see a lot of turbo speed. On the large bore stuff in my world, there’s a few ways to over speed the turbos. Boost leaks, and inlet restriction. The engine is driving the turbo based on target manifold pressure as well as target air fuel ratio. So big boost leak = more turbo speed to achieve target manifold pressure, while it’s also targeting an AFR, an amount of air goes away it will try to make more air by driving the turbo harder. But! We are using a wastegate to drive the turbo and just command it to shut more, where as you will basically have them pinned shut. But, theory’s are great until they are proven wrong haha. Can’t wait to see it come together! Love the channel, love the content!
Thanks for sharing your own view on this tech and your ideas, look forward to seeing the testing results. Also sorry to hear that there are so many haters around this.
Love how I can have a question or wonder if something works/has been done then Devin drops a video 😂 thanks man!
I love learning stuff on this channel thank you sir.
Devon this works great you will not need to waste gates. The interesting part is comparing turbo speed with exhaust waste skates at Lasee 40 pounds compared to the turbo speed with the intake gate controlling it at 40 pounds. I am already doing this on my boat motor I have Twin 80s on a 547 inch Ford, we have not got to test a whole lot. I’ve only been at 10 pounds and I’m seeing about 62,000 RPMs of turbo speed at 10 pound of boost with the throttle wide open underload. I am very interesting to see your results. Keep up the good work. I am just using a 66 mm wastegate on my intake lid.
Listening to Jeff Evan’s on Sloppy podcast sounding like he has been using a setup like this for race cars for a while and has been successful with it. Thanks for the video.
Wide-open gate there may be a spike in turbo rpm since there isn't resistance in the compressor blade then, I think the rpm would bleed off afterwards like you mentioned. Can't wait to see your progress next video. Keep at it, dude!
I like the idea of this.. cold air is easier to control than hot. But the exhaust wg's can increase exhaust gas flow at the top end like you mentioned. So maybe use both but keep the exhaust wgs and control them based on the exhaust backpressures
as always, Devins the man dropping truth bombs and knowledge on all us peasants. thanks for once again a honest and indepth break down. looking forward to the progress with this new revision of the car. keep pushing Sir your doing great!
I’ve seen people use drive-by wire to control boost going down the track. 4cyl drag cars need as much exhaust energy as possible to keep the turbo lit. In the lower gears they use a drive by wire and a timing offset to kill horsepower.
The System you have in place using a diverter valve will work similar. I look forward to seeing the results.
I don’t have enough experience to formulate an opinion for a turbo car but I do like the fit and finish you did even though it’s a “test”. If you are going to do it, might as well do it right!
I would run both wastegates but up the spring for testing. You very well could be correct about over spinning the turbo but this way there is a backup. I'm sure this could easily be tested on a hub dyno.
Years ago there was a street racer that had a 55 Chevy with twin turbo sbc and he didn’t have any waste gates and only had 2 blow off valves and he machined an aluminum puck to go inside the blow off valve as a controlled boost leak. He had a few with different ones with different hole sizes and depending on what hole size the motor only made so much power. He had nitrous plumbed to the top on the blow off valve to act as a scramble button to close the hole for all the boost. It was a wild set up but that car would fly on the street. Same concept here it seems expect the straight gate gives you much more control.
Devin, I LOVE your Thought Process!! If this works as well as everything else that you have done with your car you will do GREAT!!!
Awesome!!! I’m curious about it for sure. Glad to see turbo speed sensors too as that’s one I’ve wondered about with this system!
damn sick, i didnt know you were going E- gate
hahaha
You’re terrible Matt
E gates are awesome. My cousins friend knows a guy that heard they work gerat with 3/4 cams and double hump heads.
Interested to see the turbo speed data when you start making passes with it, thanks for sharing this.
I work with diesels that have vgt’s instead of wastegates, but with them if we add a post compressor leak it does end up increasing turbo speed, dropping efficiency and pushing it further to the left of the compressor map. That’s mostly attributed to the vgt clamping to maintain boost with a leak in the system though.
I'm just commenting bc you said to, "I think it's a dumb idea, you should have used e gates" 🤣 Keep up the good work man, see ya in a month!
I wonder if this could work well with traction control strategies to cut boost quickly if pulling timing doesnt get wheel spin under control. Seems like a better option than dropping cylinders and pulling extreme amounts of timing. Boost should come back up pretty quick when it closes since the turbo shaft speed shouldnt drop as much compared to when wastegates open to lower boost.
Love your work. Very well explained.
Great info. Pushing the boundary is how you go faster than the next person, until they copy what you are doing to catch you in which case it becomes the norm.....
I appreciate the detailed breakdown of thought process and past experience 👍👊🇺🇸🤘
def in for that shaft speed data
Like where this going! The BFGoodrich Drag Radial comment really made me feel old though.
I too am old enough to recall the BFG days, but there is positive qualities in "gray haired experience". I know MM and his crew {gray hair experience at work} has been working on this concept for a while now, last weekend at the Snowbirds he was definitely the man to beat, too bad the rain came. In conclusion this concept seems to allow the turbo car to short time like a blower car yet back half like well prepped turbo car.
Hi Devin, I watched the video in full, yes I do agree that if you open the straight gate and reduce mass flow to the engine you will in turn have that on the outlet side of the engine, I did hear that Mark Micke did hurt a few turbos from trying this on his car before he got it worked out and as you know he doesnt have chinese turbos on his car, this may have been because he has no exhaust gates at all and hence nothing to fall back on, but if possible I would try and see what issues he had to avoid doing something similar. I know when ive had a bad boost leak my IMAP/EMAP ratio dramatically changed which would in still I was ramping up turbine speed for the same IMAP
This just makes more sense, in my opinion. Controlling the input side of the turbo (hot side), to regulate the output side of the turbo (cold side) always seemed like the cart leading the horse. It's functional obviously, but its a layer of latency and obfuscation between the command and the result. Controlling the cold side directly, the part that you actually want to regulate that goes into the engine, just seems sensible.
On the exhaust side it should just be used to keep the turbo in an efficient range and reduce backpressure.
It should be both.
Instant sub. Love your thought process. And looking forward to the results of this.
Last comment I swear.
I wish you had a bearing load sensor to see how much axial funkiness happens when you open that gate because it’s definitely not free in terms of wear and tear in my opinion.
I’ve had a buddy argue up one wall and down the other that it’s without consequence but I invite you to watch Steve Morris essentially lathe off the end of a crankshaft trying to figure out why a boost leak on a procharger and feeding an engine are not equivalent practices.
I too am old enough to recall the BFG days, but there is positive qualities in "gray haired experience". I know MM and his crew {gray hair experience at work} has been working on this concept for a while now, last weekend at the Snowbirds he was definitely the man to beat, too bad the rain came. In conclusion this concept seems to allow the turbo car to short time like a blower car yet back half like well prepped turbo car.
Can't wait to see the results.
Man I’m redoing my piping on my turbo and been looking at moving the gate to charge pipe. Thanks for the info
Good lone of thinking. Also drive pressure should be more on tap using the gate on the cold side. Great Job. Hopefully it works well when you test. Can't wait for results.
Great video
Looks great another tool in the box.
Small displacement motors, 2JZ in Titans car, have been doing this for a while. It works for sure.
Not a lot different than when I ran a wastegate on the charge pipe of my F1A-94 procharger. I pulled it to near max blower speed so I could-- 1 bring the power in earlier and 2 control that power depending on track surface. I used a boost controller to control the gate as well. It was very effective in dumping power. You are doing the same thing. Letting the turbos sing and be up to speed and regulating boost on the charge pipe side. Less lag as well as quicker response on managing power.
Bla neat setup Devin mad respect
I think this is great. It is overall lighter and eliminates weight, welds and increases space. Im waiting for results and you tuning videos.
You’re a smart guy devin.
I have kinda funny story about that sudden overpressure/boost. I have Audi urS4 2.2t with ~600hp. I had really weird bleedvalve and it was not met to car anyways. When i accelerated and it gained that ~1.65bar max and the "bleed valve" broke it did go about 2.3bar before intercooler right side clamp failed and boostpipe just did go thru the bumper like butter :D Saf that booost gain just because i was watching the gauge and maan it was quick, nice times... :D I have turbosmart 60mm powergate too, better than some weird copy i had before. + Nice car and video :)
I can't wait to see how it works.
Thanks for another great video.
Greatly explained and showed.
Hell yea brother 💯 on the right track looks good 👍🏼
I think this is great! Id like to try it. Excited to see the data and more videos on it
I think it's brilliant specially for traction control my only concern is the moment that gate opens.... you run the risk of sending fins through the compressor housing until that exhaust energy goes down. Which I'm sure happens pretty quickly but it's still there. I would be surprised at 40 lb of boost if you don't see a doubling in shaft speed followed by immediate drop in shaft speed. And the reason why I say that is if it worked well they would have implemented something like this in the OEM.
Fuel tech have been doing this for months on clients cars and even on personal cars, they have great results with that.
Been talking to a couple guys that I tune about this. Was hoping to see some actual testing. In for results. Good luck.
I think moving the gates is a game changer. I’m looking at it for my setup since we run at most 240’ in mud drags
My buddy was still using his procharger waste gate on his charge pipe on his big single 2 valve b4 he changed it over to a coyote with twins 😊
makes sense as long as the charged air isnt metered before the gate. keep the turbos "spooled" and you just bleed off the charged air to control boost instead of bleeding exhaust air (and causing the turbo to slow down)
Thanks for sharing
Given you can get 5x base pressure out of the straight gates, the CO2 setup on it might be unnececary.
Would be interesting to test too, you might be able to get rid of the co2 setup if you change the other gates to straight gates.
Is there a better spool up benefit having it on the intake side? I thought there would be but then you talked about overall engine flow and it made me re-think that. Also I thought (only from other people’s information, not personal experience) that using CO2 boost control your asking the Holley to chase a target boost and so you’d be tuning to a desired window. So in theory would this be more precise and faster reacting?
Love that the straight gate is a newer version of the 25 year old ProCharger "ProFlow" valve,. Glad to see someone is finally controlling both sides of one! So rad!
That is one wicked ass fox...
I'll bet money the turbo shaft speed drops quickly, the instant that cold side gate is opened, NOT overspeeding of the turbo.
Not only is the airflow into the engine reduced, but the load on the compressor goes UP when it suddenly has to move more air with the coldside gate open.
Boost pressure is a result of restriction going through the engine divided by the volume of air being pushed through. When the cold side gate opens, restriction decreases but flow volume will only increase if the turbine speed increases and it won't increase if the "load on the compressor wheel" increases.
The thing you got wrong is the load of compressing the air goes down when the restriction goes down (cold side gate opening).
It might seem like more flow but it's not more mass flow, it's more volume with much less density and that's easier for a compressor to push and that could mean more shaft speed until it finds a new equilibrium (if you consider the engine under steady state load).
It seems to me if he omits the waste gates his turbine wheel size and A/R number are going to become much more critical balancing spool-up against getting choked up down track.
If the charge temps get to like 300 degrees you don’t think you would need to vent that somewhere other then under the hood ? Love the new setup can’t wait too see the data on it
curious to see the data logs on this , if it means faster more reliable boost control im all for it .
👍👍 pneumatic controled
I I think it's cool I think it's cool that you can could figure this out 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍😁
Im sure you’ll make it work,im curious to see what the gate pressure curve looks like, todd moyer is hauling balls on that system.
And Mark Micke
I've watched a few other racers play with what you are doing. Seen 1 promod guy running no gates just pwm a blowout valve/gate on cold side.
#mustbenice
Great content like always. I think it’s a smart move. Curious on how manageable it is. How close to target you’ll be and if there’s any troubles with response time. Good luck man.
Cant wait to see how responsive this system is.
There is a car attached to those turbos. You can see the car in the background.
I think your spot on, if anything you should loose turbine speed instead of increasing.
This guy speaks my language! sub'd!
Helping the algorithm: which block heater do you use?
Peterson with the removable cord
Curious to see the data on this
In Australia it was seen on a few nizpro vl turbos in the 2000's.
Worked fine for them
I wonder if shaft speed will just spike then settle straight away
Please dive deeper on the no wastegate I'm putting one out back on the fbody and using my big procharger blow off by the intercooler upfront to regulate pressure am I wrong I'm running the comp oiless turbo to make it even more simple basically only want to run what the spring holds the 434 will handle 2000hp and the spring and setup should be 1500hp ish and I can change the spring or add more springs to obtain more hp but its a very simple layout
Every time i see videos of the e-gate, either it's blown up engines with blocks split in half or gates stuck wide open.
Nothing wrong with CO2. It’s simple and works 👍🏼
I feel fucking dumb because I don't completely understand the benefits, seems better than E gate anything though. Hopefully I pick up how this thing impacts shaft speeds in future videos with data
If you get it right it will keep the turbo's from going into the wrong part of the map on the front half 👍.
I feel like the turbo smart straight is going to be beneficial. But the question is how much of a benefit will it be. I’m interested in seeing the data once the car is ready.
How did the straight gate setup work for you on Sick Week??? Any advice now that you had a chance to try it out?
I would really love to hear your thoughts about the egate and what your arguments where when they first came out.
How you liking the new setup now you’ve ran it?
My question is what made you go from the Holly high speed valves, back to regular Mac valves for boost control?…. Sidebar I’m very interested to see how this new set up works. Can’t wait for an update.
🤔 could this be used w/o a exhaust wastegate on a street setup
Hey Devin, could you swap the blow-off valves for the straight gates and use them for boost control and regular blow offs when you get off the gas
With a single 4 port Mac valve you can yes
As a supplement it’s fine. As a replacement for regular gates it’s gay and traditional gates will make the turbo go further anyway in my opinion.
Opening your wastegate on your cold side slows the turbo down even if you could keep exhaust energy up and would make back pressure higher at the same time. people need to pick up a vacuum cleaner and test this shit before they talk about it 😂
Which turbo is under more load
1.turbo connected to 427” SBF
2.turbo connected to 427” SBF and trying to exhale into all of Mother Earth at the same time
Out of ALL of the crap we hear the whole boost leak over spinning the turbo is my favorite one and everybody parrots that same bs without applying a single intelligent thought to it. Sorry for the rant.
I’ve always wondered about a setup like this on blower cars, and also wonder if something like a dbw throttle body could accomplish something similar.
I remember someone who I trusted (I think Steve Morris but I could be remembering wrong) said that on a centrifugal blower it ends up dramatically increasing power used to drive the blower.
It's a system called smooth boost. Fully adjustable using a TB
Mercury marine uses an ETB to regulate boost on their supercharged Verado outboards. Obviously not the same as turbos but such a design would make for a much simpler and less costly system design and perhaps better boost accuracy
Could you touch on opening the gates down track and how that allows the engine to breath better a bit more?
Devin do you think using the new style gate, will have less dome pressure spiking that occurs on exhaust style waste gates?
we will find out but i believe so yes
@@theholleyefiguy That would be great. I did see you have a "can" inline with your dome pressure sensor. I'm guessing to dampen the pulses from the exhaust gate.
Correct
I’m assuming that controlling boost on the charge side will keep the turbos spooled if you are using the blow off valve for traction control as opposed to using the waste gates. You did explain it in the end of the video I was just wondering what the turbo shaft speed is waste gate VS blow off valve using traction control, or are you just using timing for traction control?
Wait, this way you can ditch wastegates and a traditional BoV for this single item? Seems like a far more simple setup with less points of failure...
How is it going so far? Looking forward to shaft speed video.
Similar to what Mark Micke is trying?
Watching
Hey Devin, do you have shaft speed sensors on your turbos? If so, you can monitor the shaft speed both ways. Opening the intake side would unload the compressor wheel, and you may overspeed the turbos. It'd be easy to see what happens.
You didn’t watch the video did you
@theholleyefiguy I did, stopped and typed the comment.
@@davidresar8256He talks about the shaft speed sensors in the last 60 seconds of the video.
@brettconnelly5642 Yes, I paused the video to write the comment. Then, I finished the video.
What are the pros and cons of using the pneumatic straight gate?
What v-band flange did you use? They only come with stainless and i cant find any part numbers for aluminum v-band flanges.
How are you getting around the "engineered air leak" around the shaft on the C02 side. My Holly solenoids go crazy trying to regulate.